Iowa 2012 Republican Presidential Debate pt.2

[McamelyneII]

Enjoyed too, just gotta get some campaign stuff done. See if Romney or Obama will chat. LOL.

[McamelyneII]

Do us both a favor and look back through US history at the labor rights movement between 1900 and 1935. Then talk to be about people who have entitlements protesting. Your opinions are your own but they bare little relationship to the real world. People are protesting because the system is not fair and they are getting screwed. It is not because they want a hand out, the banks have stolen trillions and nobody went to jail, put them in jail, then we can talk about handouts.

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII I've notice every time I respond you change the subject. So, I guess your presuming I know nothing about U.S. history now lol... and you want to change the subject from Economic Systems to why people are protesting... my opinion may bare little relations to how you view the real world... so i guess your trying to tie the times of those decades of unfair practices of workers to the now modern times. In my view it has reversed The unions are taking advantage now...

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII Please elaborate why the system is not fair and how they are getting screwed in a logical context...be in mind there isn't a system that is perfect.

What if people don't think it's handouts and actually believes it's a right...therefore it's not a hand out? What happened  to you favoring Big Government...they were the one who bailed out the banks and nobody went to jail because they didn't break any law except maybe social justice law...your all over the place.

[McamelyneII]

@CHEKPNT Fraud is neither social nor an ethical issue, it's a criminal issue. There is ample evidence that fraud was committed, yet no one went to jail. You may want to wrap yourself in legalism but I am sure that if I did what they did in a small bank with less money involved, I would be sitting in jail. Money buys favored treatment, little guy gets punished, that is the American reality. If you havn't figured that out by now, you don't want to. I don't favor big gov, just a fair one.

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII So are you now going to talk about fraud and banks, special interest (money buys favored treatment), or the unfortunates gets punished? Your rambling and jumping to different topics of charges and opinions.... So can you focus on one subject at a time...lol? I asked you for a couple of things to back up your statements from your last response... now it seems your changing the subject again without answering me.

[McamelyneII]

@CHEKPNT - Sorry, I can't talk economic policy in 500 characters. go to scribd com and look up my address michael d ballantine and you will find my policies in detail.

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII - Sorry, when it comes to economy if your name isn't Milton Friedman, Thomas Sowell, Walter E. Williams, Adam Smith, FA Hayek...etc I don't know if I would bother to check out your site especially if you couldn't handle little o'l me...no you can't go more than 500 characters but if you scroll down from the first time we've responded to each other...you used up alot of characters so far!

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII oh...I had fun though =) MERRY CHRISTMAS and I wish you well...

[CHEKPNT]

@wyatt9600 You seem so simple minded... Space exploration is as equivalent to the European exploration to the west (America), America's onward west (California), etc.

People who vote for Gingrich would be conservative most that are logical, practical, appreciate's history, I guess opposite of you...

[SvenBenson]

Let's take a meaningless shot about golf; sadly Santorum made a valid point; and yet Ron Paul makes the sound argument to solve it.

[SvenBenson]

Everything is a fallacy, and the sad thing is people believe it because humans have a collectivist istinct (Plato addressed this) to trust authority; I mean adopting the unintellectual arguments are simple; make up an emotional argument: like many people dying annually from Marijuana overdose;or The black market that's legalized will be horrible for children! They'll be MORE illegal sales in back alleys when it's not illegal.Remember, the mafia is controlling liquor sales! Terrorism Skyrockets!

[twistedfocus100]

Newt = D-Bag... 

[buffpatto1987]

Were they booing at Newt or Mitt when Newt explained Romney didn't continue because he lost to Ted Kennedy?

[randomanifest]

bachmann: "raise the payroll tax, but i stand for small government and lower taxes"

[partyspecialists]

Gingrich 2012

[tommy0135]

@partyspecialists ha. yeah right.

[BonbondeParis]

What's worse than Gingrich's views on putting children of poverty to work is that he thinks it's okay to pay them LESS than a unionized adult worker! This is called EXPLOITATION OF MINORS, and it is about as immoral as it gets.

[dementiapraecox1970]

@BonbondeParis pure idiocy... Those kids out there need these jobs because they got everything they have by crying and wining.And no they dont need paid at rates over 20.-30.00, they can work for min wage like everyone else starting out does... Exploitation of minors? you dont know the meaning

[CHEKPNT]

@BonbondeParis Having children of poverty to work & paying them less than union workers is not exploitation of minors. Extra money, Basic principles of earning money, getting them involve in a productive society at the same time helping their family resources is NoT exploitation.

He was factoring what the social aspects of those kids growing up one generation to another generation with government welfare and dependence over and over again.

Finding a solution is not Exploitation.

[81onedeep]

how many times they gotta say america and this country?? like we dont know where the fuck we are

[HumbleObserver]

Hold on Newt why do you single out 'poor' kids alone that need to experience work, I know in your shallow mind you think all poor people are poor and unemployed because they're lazy and has nothing to do with the likes of you helping but the economy in the toilet and millions of people out of work. Give him a minute though and he will accuse someone else of class warfare. What a complete tool that man is.

[CHEKPNT]

@HumbleObserver He single out the 'poor' kids because your shallow mind doesn't understand that those kids still has and or need the chances and opportunities more from the get go.

Give you a minute though and you will accuse that this is exploitation, elitist, racist, etc.... (Just reversing your comments on the last sentence to show how dumb it is when you did it)

[larrythelurker]

abc, you passed up a great opportunity to serve your country and citizens but sqaundered that opportunity by playing politics with the candidates.

[bleunt]

An entry level janitor is paid TWICE as much as an entry level teacher, Newt says. That can't be true, can it?

[grizzzlyjoe]

@bleunt It depends on whether or not the Janitors are unionized. If they are, then they do.

[bleunt]

@grizzzlyjoe I checked it out, and it can't be true.

[CHEKPNT]

@bleunt find out...

[bleunt]

@CHEKPNT I did. It's not true.

[CHEKPNT]

@bleunt It's true and not true..slight of hand trick depending...how you compare it. Other States and cities are affected of how strong the union is there. Some teachers union is stronger than other cities. If you were to compare entry level teachers in Austin, Texas to Janitor in lets say NY city... it's true. But glad your at least attempting to check and not just go by your what your peers say.

[bleunt]

@CHEKPNT I checked the nation wide average, and techers earned a LOT more. Twice as much. So unless I see specific numbers that say otherwise, I will find it very very hard to believe. Either way, his comment was clearly dishonest.

[CHEKPNT]

@bleunt Reread what I wrote to you carefully...previously, it's not a gothcha thing lol it pretty simple to grasp.

[bleunt]

@CHEKPNT Reread what I wrote, where I explain in less than three lines exactly why his comment is dishonest.

[CHEKPNT]

@CHEKPNT Wow you didn't reread it....if your hard headed you can't see simple things...and fight meaningless things lol. Your not getting it plus your misdirecting one issue toward your opinion of what a clear dishonest comment to you.

[CHEKPNT]

@CHEKPNT What am trying to tell you is if you compare nationwide avg...yes your analysis is correct. But, if you compare city by city, town by town, state by state and adding benefits and pensions you'll see differences with the national average. The reason for the differences is some are conservative and some are liberal cities and some Unions are stronger at some locations. ex) A librarian in San Diego retired earning close to $150,000 a year, but not in Dallas Texas.

[McamelyneII]

Speaker Gingrich is not a hypocrite, he is a man with no principles. I would extend the Social Security tax cuts for three years and then begin raising them automatically by 1% a year for three years until they return to where they were. It's a simple question and it needs a simple answer. I would add a 10% surtax for incomes over $500,000 for 5 years to generate $105 billion/year. Vote for a progressive president if you want a progressive policy, vote Mike Ballantine mikeballantine2012 org

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII Wow seem like you trust government spending and budgeting whole heatedly...With millions of dollars wasted in venture investment such as Solyndra and wasteful bureaucratic system such as Fannie mae and Freddie mac, useless projects like bridge to nowhere,etc...

I do agree with 2-3% national tax directly for just funding Social Security and Medicare. Program is there for good might as well fund it correctly.

[McamelyneII]

@CHEKPNT - 9 out of 10 businesses fail in the first 5 years.One might call that wasteful spending too. I think it is all relative. I agree Solyndra was a mistake, but one of policy not intent. We should have had customers lined up for the product the factory would produce for its first five years. The President mishandled it like many other things to numerous to count. We need $2 trillion to cover Medicare and Social Security, that's about 13% of GDP. We can cut health care costs, but SS...no.

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII Government should not be involved in capitalism in that way...leave it to the private sector to invest. not tax payers money... just opening a gateway to corruption in the government.

Business fail and succeed because it's a free market (capitalism). It is not wasteful spending because money being used is by their own judgement of their own money to risk for potential ROI and profit. Taxpayers money should not be involved like that... can be used somewhere else less risky.

[McamelyneII]

@CHEKPNT - The role of government is to step in when markets fail to act. The job creators are creating jobs in China and India, not in the US. They are not going to create jobs in the US because they can make more money doing it somewhere else. Either the government creates the jobs or we have to move to China where the jobs are. The government can invest in the infrastructure to support job creation, it does not have to create companies. Sometimes a new market is too big a risk.

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII Government do not make new money, therefore it cannot make jobs unless it takes money from business in the private sector then uses that for government jobs. Government jobs do not make new money because it does not produce products and services, if they do it would be conflict of interest resulting in a monopoly because it would be a socialistic society. Think of the problems were having with the post office and Amtrak.

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII Government's role when it comes to a capitalistic country is to make sure that the market is not being manipulated, monopolized, moral violation, etc. The market only fails when it is crony-capitalism...therefore it cannot correct itself in a regular cycle. Infrastructure and military is fine since that has always been the role of the government.

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII Now when you talk about losing jobs overseas its a-lot more in depth than just one paragraph but in short. It's simple it's alot easier doing business there than here period. More regulations and the more demands of unions when it comes to pension, wages, benefits....the more company would move to China and India.

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII the type of economy you seem to suggest is more like it's based on Keynesian Economics, which Obama subscribes in.

[McamelyneII]

@CHEKPNT -That is partly true. President Obama follows what is called neo-classical economics which focuses on small changes to manage the economy and employing monetary policy to make adjustments. That is the policy followed by Geithner and Bernanke. I follow would I consider neo-Keynes which accepts the limitations of Keynes when you reach negative interest rates. Keynes does not have a good solution for negative interest rates & I think I do. Both the Repubs and Dems follow neo-class

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII I guess that's where we fundamentally disagree. I don't like the feds or any of the three branches of government tapering with or manipulating the economy. THINK OF THE ECONOMY AS A BALL. When a ball comes down it bounces up. If you try to soften the ball's landing by catching the ball little at a time while it comes down (interest rate adj, saving foreclosure) it will bounce up very little than it would have if you just let it fall on it's own.

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII I don't think President Obama follows neoclassical by his philosophy the key words he uses when he wants to fix the economy terms like "spend more so we can get shovel ready to fix the infrastructure","that means jobs", "save the people in this foreclosure mess by having the bank modify your loans", etc

[McamelyneII]

@CHEKPNT - All economic theorist understand the influence of government spending, even Hayek supported public spending in a depression, just make the wage really low. When loans are uncollectable, sometimes taking a haircut is better than losing all the money. That's not economics, that's good business. Further, don't listen to a politician speak, look at what they do, he is definitely a neo-classical economist. His stimulus package is much to small to effect change.

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII I usually would never say "all,always,never". Anyways, for me I listen then see what they actually do...show's some accountability or old saying walk the walk. The first 2 yrs when democrat had the house, senate, and obama = full control of pushed what seems to Keynesian economics...not working bro. So continue to borrow money from China with interest, create government jobs, those employees will spend on China products..hmm works for China.

[McamelyneII]

@CHEKPNT - If you read Keynes, you would understand that the stimulus package was way too small and that Obama rejected the advice of the Keynes bunch and instead followed the neo-classical advice to make small adjustments. America does not need to borrow from China, there is $7 trillion in cash on deposit in banks. Right now, Bernanke buys the US debt with printed money to keep interest rates at zero. The US is just printing money now, that's not Keynes, that's Bernanke/Blinder 1988.

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII It will never be enough..it's like gambling it's never enough until you hit it big. But, I can tell you believe in this idea that's fine.

$7 trillion IN THE BOOKS (Numbers in a spreadsheet) most being used up to help "to big to fail" banks which I also disagree with... Your answer is to let Bernanke do QE4, QE5,etc almost reminds me of Forrest Gump "I just keep on printing and printing and printing..." with no thought of any possible backlash or consequences. hmm interesting.

[McamelyneII]

@CHEKPNT -In the near term, we are in a liquidity trap so Bernanke can print all he wants. When we come out though, it will be one mother of a headache. I want to change the FED mandate to a zero-inflation policy instead of the current one of full employment/minimize inflation (2%). I don't think printing money is the answer but I have no problem with borrowing long-term money for long-term projects. It's the credit card borrowing that is bad. That is where I differ from everyone else.

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII Dunno bout a policy of zero inflation...only way is to print money to replace old worn out paper money or keep up with positive GDP. If we don't Zimbabwe here we come! Interestingly Canada lowered spending drastically but also increase taxes.(Spending cuts 6 to 1 vs tax increase) They are not as in debt and doing better than the U.S. dollar. Puerto Rico under Luis Fortuño is in the recovery of fixing the previous spend crazy, 3 out of 1 are govt jobs.

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII Trusting the government is not easy when comes to money too many lobbyist to threaten them politically. Here's a few sample of just the Feds mis-use of spending: $500,00 on blowing up beaver dams in Miss.;$500,000 Eliminating Brown eyed snakes in GUAM!; $500,000 Study of shrimp immune system; $500,000 Robot folding clothes; Cowboy poetry festival; $2.6 million to train Chinese prostitutes to drink responsibly (yes Chinese)...etc.

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII Most answers given to me is tax more, borrow, or print money. Without challenging how bad all of those are...I can't even think why I should have the government handle more money if they spend it ridiculously. If they just find a way to be efficient in spending, regulation, red tape, etc... taxing more sounds ok for the greater good. But, I think the only way that can happen is for the government to be smaller, less possibility of being corrupt.

[McamelyneII]

@CHEKPNT - Government is not the problem, our leaders are the problem. If we have proper leadership we won't have all this nonsense. Instead of working for the benefit of the people, our leaders work for the benefit of corporations. Instead of helping people, we are funding the murder of people. Our government is corrupt because our leaders are corrupt, change the leaders and we will change our government. The lies in these debates are unimaginable which is why I am running.

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII Changing the current leaders does not guarantee that they'll be any better, they maybe even worse. For me it's not such a closed case as you seem without solid supportive strong evidence suggesting our current leaders are basically evil. Lobbyist are people that represent large amount of people most out number the large corporation lobbyist 20 to one. Like I said Smaller Efficient Transparent Well Runned Goverment can reduce the amount of fraud and corruption.

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII I live in CA. You can't get any more liberal here. It's anti-business, Anti-Militarty, Very Larg Government, Unions here are strong, Ca Liberal Democrats have been running the state for over  2 decades. Almost everything you believe is runned that way here. We've borrowed and borrowed and over spent. MY State has the highest overall unemployment rate some few local cites have been bankrupt. My State is in the brink of disaster.

[McamelyneII]

@CHEKPNT - Of course they are over borrowing. They are using the borrowed money to pay current operating expenses. That is the same as living on a credit card. That does not make any sense unless it is short-term spending and in good times, you pay it off. I propose long-term borrowing for investments like you would a mortgage on a house.

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII I don't know what you consider long-term borrowing is but if you divide our total debt right now of about 14 trillion and base on 2010 census of # of household.(112,611,029) thats about $125,000 per house hold debt in america. That's a mortgage, not here in Southern California..lol but typically that's a mortgage. We pay about $540 million just in interest a day! China owns 13% of that public debt paying them about $73 million a DAY.

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII "what does a trillion dollars look like" search that on you-tube to get a visual and multiply that by 15...i just checked the current national debt it's over 15 trillion now.

[McamelyneII]

@CHEKPNT - You sound like some Iowa farmer. It's big so it must be bad without putting it into context. Japan currently has debt of about 200% of GDP, that's much more than we do. We had higher debt at the end of WWII. That was after a depression and a great war. I am not saying debt is good but some debt is necessary. If you buy a house, do you limit your mortgage to 50% of your income, or do you borrow 200% of your income. I want to build factories, power plants, new energy sources...

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII First one to insult loses the discussion, no am not an Iowa farmer it's hard to do any farming here in Southern California lol. Ahh yeah look at Japan I do not wanna end up like Japan! I presume ur a Krugman follower if your citing Japan's Economy. Bubble, Bubble what to do when interest rate is at 0% and banks are not lending and/or not enough demand for that capital...look out for deflation oh lets do bail-outs, fix infrastructure,lets buy assets there goes TNX yields.gzzz 

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII Such gimmicks and manipulation to the economy, even if sounds logical, has it's fallacy to be very destructive. The Keynsian argument that we just didn't spend enough on stimulus always reminds me of the response a fundamentalist Christian would have when someone he loves dies. "Why did God let your loved one die?" someone asks, and he responds "I didn't have enough faith. If I had only had more faith, God would have saved that person."

[McamelyneII]

@CHEKPNT - Doing nothing is not an option, doing too little is a waste. If people are hungry and roaming the streets, you get revolution. I have news for the Paulites, the RP solution will have people roaming the streets and they will follow whomever promises them food. That is the nature of revolution and the ones that lose are the business and property owners. Cutting off entitlements for the poor because they need to pick themselves up only works if they can. Good luck with that.

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII Never said not to do nothing...I hope you don't feel all other options and suggestions are not considered nothing if it's not what you want to do. Have you notice most that are doing most of the aggressive protest are people that are really dependent on the government ...It's anticipated, in an entitlement society that people will protest aggressively if anything is taken away from them...even if the country is broke...Greece, Spain, Italy...etc.

[McamelyneII]

@CHEKPNT - You can't build those on a credit card, nor can you build them using cash. You and Ron Paul belong in a comedy routine I used to watch called Hee Haw. Put your straw hats on and talk about how bad things are. Pull out the graphs and you will see it's been worse. Cut government spending you get unemployment, increase government spending, you create jobs. Which do you want, job cuts or job increases? You are entitled to your own opinion, but the facts are the facts.

[CHEKPNT]

@McamelyneII In regards health care cost not needed depends if your talking about Medicare...impossible. If we never gotten involve in the first place i'd agree but since Medicare has been it's place most Medical facilities revolve around Medicare/Medicaid be catastrophic to the industry if any more cuts...Social Security omg I guess they can start by not using the money for other things lol...so hard to say this bcuz am a conservative 2-3% national tax solely to fund the two programs? oh gzzz

[jjcale1111]

@wwwMOXNEWScom Mox ... you naughty boy... what kind of an edit was that at then end... did you used to edit soaps??

[4390100]

That was funny, Mitt is for the average man. If it should hurt the bankers in any way what so ever, Mitt is not for it, he does not care about the average man one bit, the status quo is the only road for Mitt. The Military Industrial Complex and the Bankers would really like to knock off Ron Paul, No more wars, no more financing wars, actually helping the economy and people of the United States for a change, instead of trying to kill servicemen and women in some country that does not need us.

[Satyr000]

Lets not forget one of the reasons Social Security is a mess is because the government has been stealing money out of the fund to finance crap and both parties have done it over the years. Its time we put a damn padlock on the social security fund and start getting rid of the people that want to take money out of it.

[iTellYouNoLie]

5:00 

[kenderoth8]

...so where's the moderator moving along the debate? Questions were purposely aimed at Gingrich and Romney.

[Dane42o]

lol these guys are idiots...or are they? Maybe the people who vote for them are the only idiots.

[prayfortruejustice]

1:40 hey wakey wakey Ms. Bachman... there is a 56,357,NNN,NNN,NNN.00 National Debt with116,NNN,NNN,NNN,NNN.00 in unfunded liabilities (which includes Soc. Sec.) -- THE US HAS ZERO to pay for the unfunded liabilities 116 Trillion ... there is only 70 trillion on the planet. YOU ARE SCREWED.

[chromatic47]

Sawyer really knows she is on camera. It's funny seeing news readers trying to act smart. lol

[grizzzlyjoe]

Listen to Romney's answer. Not only didn't he answer the question, but he went off into another universe.

[SvenBenson]

@grizzzlyjoe That's common; you cannot make a deductively sound logical argument, so shift towards emotional appeal; it works on most americans.

[djburns318]

will diane sawyer shut the F up? she rambled on for nearly a FULL minute for a single question

[ThatBrowser]

Ron Paul 2012!

[RedTory59]

@ThatBrowser Brilliant! I wish I had a dollar for every time an IDIOT posts that.

[MyRiseToHonor]

RedTory59, NO SHIT! I wish I could have one as well! One for you and one for me! We could retire and support our entire families forever!

[ThatBrowser]

@RedTory59 - cool story bro