"Stop judging and start loving, even if you don't agree with homosexual acts. Cause we are all in the same boat together."
If you believe that homosexuality isn't a sin, WE ARE NOT in the same "boat". I am saved and will be going to Heaven while you most likely aren't saved and will be going to Hell.
so glad i know god loves me above anything else. i dont subscribe to strict interpretation of bible, so im free to live life the way i choose, for right or wrong, without worry. im a good person, and im gay... who's with me?
I am with you. I also believe you can be a christian, believe in the lord and be in a loving same sex relationship. There are many parts of the bible that are absolutely ridiculous and should never be taken word for word. This book is the cause of more hatred and persecution than any book in history. Organized religion should never be allowed. It only empowers people in the worst of ways. Worship the lord one on one and you'll have a happier life. Stay far away from the church and its rhetoric.
You do have free will. The free will to decide to follow what the scriptures say or deny them and live as you choice and walk the broad path that leads to destruction and hell.
my friend, can i ask you with respect, what would you do if you were gay, and knew you had no attraction to women with no hope of ever finding love in a str8 world? would you want the church / family / friends to have compassion for you? what would you do if they hated / avoided you? walk a mile in a gay persons shoes...before you judge
i dont claim to be a christian, but i have many close relgious friends who are struggling, one of them commited suicide :( i wish you had entertained my questions...i fear you would be in great pain over it, like many gays. i am celibate too btw. i try not to judge, it's not my job. im happy you are following all the scriptures, i wish you happiness, you have an easier life than gay ppl.
No one should drive another to suicide, no matter what they do.
I did answer your question. I said they should stay celibate. I'm glad to hear you are.
I know many think that I might have an easier life, but I don't. In this society many people will look down on you for being a virgin as long as I have. Just look at the movie the forty year old virgin.
sad to say my friend didnt think he had any chance of going to heaven, just because he was gay, the church & catholic school told him that often. he was gay, and everyone treated him badly... im miss him
Don't worry, if your friend had goodness in his heart, he is in heaven. If he never opened the bible a day in his life but believed in the lord and tried to live a good life, then he is in heaven. Take heart. Your friend is safe. I am sorry for your loss.
david, kevin was a lost soul, he was abused as a kid, by his dad & priests at catholic school. he felt that if he was going to burn just cuz hes gay, that he may as well have all the fun he wanted... he was messed up from it all, he didnt have a chance. i know thats not what REAL christians are all about, but it's hard to hear them when they say bad things bout gays. wheres the compassion for a lost lamb? would you all pray for him & others like him?
Your friend is in my prayers. I'm sure the lord has compassion for him. It's not up to us to decide who is a lost soul. It pains me when christians assume all gays are immoral creatures who wander the earth fornicating at will when in reality most gays are decent human beings who just want the same rights as others. I hope someday it will change for gays. Perhaps outwardly to the world, Kevin appeared a lost soul but to the lord he may have already had his wings. There is goodness in us all.
Mr Camel76- You have stated you have chosen to live a celebate life until the girl of your dreams comes along. May I ask if you masturbate. Be careful how you answer this for lying is also a sin. If you do masturbate then by the lords word (according to the blessed ones how penned his word) you are sinning everytime your penis gets erect and you help it spill its seed. I'm anxious to see how and if you answer this one. May god be with you.
On the subject of marriage, there are millions of gay couples who would be married this very day if laws were created to honor their wishes to do so. However, we live in a society that since the beginning of time has always persecuted those who are different. We've based our laws on a book (supposedly inspired by god but written by man)that has caused more harm to society than good. It doesn't allow for free thought or happiness based on ones own desires. Would god really want this for us?
8: For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Let not your prophets and your diviners, that be in the midst of you, deceive you, neither hearken to your dreams which ye cause to be dreamed.
9: For they prophesy falsely unto you in my name: I have not sent them, saith the LORD.
WOW gods not real get over it. geezz. And Jay Bakker is amazing how dare you call him a flase prophet he preaches about Love and compassion, While other preachers talk about hate and fear, i was a chrisitan but After seeing what goes on in the church , I would never go back to that life style
Wow and you beleive in a false God, that there is no evidence backing up anything you beleive in how about that ? Jay bakker is an amazing man teaching people to love eachother
Sleep In, No so i didnt have to hear anymore Lies that are being spread, We should all learn to love eachother, There never was a god and there never will be, I hate telling people that but its true, we just have to start beleiveing in eachother and not hating other people for having different opinions, If your a christian then follow in the steps of Jesus a man who beleived in love and forgivness
28: And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Yeah who cares, that was written by god it was written by old men with agendas. the bible was not even written 200 years till after jesus was dead, it was all made up for political Power, study your history, You wouldnt know what christanity was if it wasnt for Emperor Constaintine
Good news everyone. I just spoke to the lord this morning and he sent this message "Leave our gay/lesbian brothers and sisters alone. They are no more sinful than the lot of you. I give them permission to enjoy a healthy happy sexual relationship just as I have given heterosexuals the same privilage."Amen. The lord also asked that his word be added to the book of Levitcus.
Couldn't the bible also be made up of false prophets. After all, anyone can claim to have spoken directly to the lord and scribble down laws he has supposedly asked them to write. I just did it in my previous post as a test. And from what I have read of the bible, it consists of a bunch of nuts trying to control people of their day by scaring the hell out of them with what God will do to them if they don't follow certian rules. MY God is not a God to fear. He loves me just as I am.
Did I strike a nerve Mr. Camel. You're a typical Political/Christian avoiding questionns that pertain to your own sins. So you do masurbate. I knew it. You big sinner! It was an honest question that needed an honest answer. It's ok for you to call homoexuality a sin but when it comes to your own sins of lust you clam up just like a politician caught with his pants down. I do believe in God and only use the word Christian for lack of a better term. I do not fear the lord. He is with me always.
Mr Camel-My question was not out of line and you answered it by not answering it. They've trained you well. It's ok for you to expect Gay Christians to hold their desires in and remain celebate for eternity but it's ok for you to masturbate while thinking lustful thoughts of young virgins with perky breasts. We could easily round up the worlds hypocrites by simply attending our churches on Sunday mornings.
Dear Mr Camel76- In no way am I trying to defraud you. I am simply trying to save you from the sin of masturbation as you were simply trying to save the wayword homosexual. I have admitted my homesexuality to god and the world. Can you admit you secretly masturbate and think of beautiful young women while pretending to the world to be saintly and celebate. Now, if you are indeed a saint, I get down on my knees and apologize, however if you do masturbate be honest and admit your sins and be saved
My Dearest Mr Camel- It it just like a Christian to point out the sins of others while spewing scripture but when the tables are turned you skirt around the issue when it comes to your own sin. I know the topic is homesexuality but you have opened this can of worms. Your making a fool of yourself by not answering my question on whether or not you masturbate. Your like many of the Ministers who preach against adultry on Sunday and pound the church secretary Monday through Saturday. So sad.
My Dearest Mr. Camel- You are darn right I meant to defend homosexuals. I've been defending them most of my life. If you are Man enough spew scripture while pointing out the sins of others can't you be man enough to admit your own. I think you should admit to our utube friends that you have committed the sin of masturbation and you have lusted in your heart. After Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggart admitted their lustful sins on National Television. A small utube confession is small potato's.
It's too bad people have fallen so far from the precepts of Christianity, and have foolishly made their own meager life into the wisdom of the ages.
Just as the ancient Greeks and the Romans fell to their decadence and corruption, so must we, it appears. Too many folks know nothing of history, and are doomed to repeat it due to their arrogance and selfishness.
we're dealing with two different types of history in that scenario. one is much more concrete and recent than the other. no i wasn't at his inauguration and i don't deny it happened. i also don't go around telling people they are abominations going to hell for being who they are. you people need to start learning how to practice your fairy tales in peace....and leave people dealing with reality alone. we're tired of having to cater to your nonsense.
Jesus' love cannot be contained in male and female! Granted the science of life still belongs to a man and a woman, in one fashion or another, but the role of nuturing that life, or feeding and holding and loving that child, belongs to any man or woman, or any combination therin, who find themselves the strength and compassion required. That's an awesome loving God!
I have no desire to read a book written by a person whose agenda is to rewrite the scriptures or in some way discredit them from being the inerrant words of God, which is exactly what John Shelby Spong's agenda is to do.
So you know the motives of Spong's heart? He's never set out an agenda, but you already know it through reading his brain? Is that a gift of the Spirit?
"So you know the motives of Spong's heart? He's never set out an agenda, but you already know it through reading his brain? Is that a gift of the Spirit?"
Yes, it is actually. The spirit reveals what is truth to the believer. Besides, knowing who Spong is and what he is all about already, reveals to me the agenda of his heart in writing this particular book.
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
Actually, you are both wrong because eating shellfish or anything that was once deemed unclean according to Jewish law, is no longer an abomination. Read Acts 10:11-15. As for homosexuality however, it is now and it will always be an abomination.
You're focusing on the wrong thing, don't focus on the law. The law was fulfilled in the body of Christ in order that once we accept Him, we are no longer bound to the law.
But we are still bound by the old testament, and just throwing out certain texts because they don't conform to your idea of what "true" christianity is, is hypocritical. Afterall, I'm sure your one who believes in creationism, and since it is mentioned in the old testament first, you have to abide by it, regardless if you believe only in what the New Testament has to teach you.
The Levitical laws were written to address certain issues of the day that were a part of their everyday lives, such as slavery. It was part of their society so laws were written which addressed the issues that they faced concerning slavery but that is not to say that the Bible encourages slavery today, as some critics like to argue.
Slavery however was as common place to them as traffic is to us so laws were written to govern it's practice. The slavery laws are no longer relevant to us but that doesn't mean those verses are any less important than other NT verses because I think we can still learn from the history of the levitical laws.
Actually, slavery then was not like what we think of it as today. I can't think of the passage off the top of my head, but it was God telling the Israelites that if a man had no money, he could sell himself for work. There were laws in place for humane treatment of them.
Actually, when you speak of homosexuality as the Bible represents it, you're talking about the Greek word "arsenokoitai" which literally translates to "man bed". No one really knows what that means so technically, you have no idea whether or not homosexuality as we know it today is in fact an abomination in God's eyes or not.
What greek language dictionary are you using? I know greek and you are definitely wrong. Besides, it is the NEW TESTAMENT that was written in greek, not the old.
Well, if I'm "wrong", then it's not me that's "wrong", it's the dictionary that's "wrong".
The word is made up of two words "arren" which means male and "koites" which means 1. a place for laying down, resting, sleeping in 1. a bed, couch 2. the marriage bed 1. of adultery 3. cohabitation, whether lawful or unlawful 1. sexual intercourse
rrivas90814: Talk about being naive....do you really think homosexuality was only condemned in the old testament? Read your new testament as well...like Romans, and Revelation. Bringing up beards and shellfish...straw men...tsk tsk. Let those with ears to hear...
I used to be bisexual. God can and does change people, but only if they totally submit themselves to His will. His word is clear on it, and false prophets and deceived ministers don't change a thing. I have compassion toward my homosexual friends and neighbors, but I do not condone sin of ANY kind. Stand up for what is right or get left. There is forgiveness for those who REPENT, not for those who hang on to "pet sins."
You can't change how God made you...why do you make God so simplistic and put all your faith in a book that was ultimately written by man. Sorry, but you sound naive and very impressionable. His word is clear you should not eat shell fish or shave your beard...read Leviticus..come on!
So if someone likes to have sex with 6 and 7 year old kids, that's okay cause God made that their sexual preference? Is that right? Cause that's what I got out of your comment. Everyones mind set turned out according to plan, and not only that it cannot be changed, but the thought of change is mean to the people with those mind sets.
I can't believe you're actually comparing homosexuality to pederasty. There is absolutely no comparison between monogamous LOVE between two consenting adults and rape between a man/woman and a child. You should be ashamed of yourself. Pedophilia is, from what I understand, a mental illness; homosexuality is NOT.
What an idiot? There is no link what so ever between homosexualy and Pedophilia. Making this comparison is the typical response of a brain washed christian. Everyone including our dear lord knows that most of the crimes against children are committed by heterosexuals. If you want to talk child abuse, when was the last time you heard of a homosexual beating, raping and murdering a child. Check your facts moron. This honor goes to the heterosexuals.
Its funny how the only thing the religious right have to hold over people is fear. Fear of retribution, fear of damnation, and just fear in general. If you live your life, and you follow God out of fear, rather than embrace God as an ally that will never abandon you, then there is no reason for you to believe. REPENT for sins because they bring pain and anguish to others, not because your selfishness dictates o mindset of getting left behind, if you dont.
Couldn't agree more, one's motivation should never be what's in it for me?. However, as a practical matter, usually when people first come to Christ, it's because they realize they need a Saviour or they will go to Hell. Once this has been accomplished, God will begin to take that person through the sanctification process, which is where we learn how to treat and put others first as well as learn the very important concept of dying to one's self on a daily basis.
When Christ willingly went to the cross in our place, what he did is give His life for ours. (Read Gal 2:20) What this means, is that since He gave His life for ours, He now owns us and we belong to him. Our lives are not our own anymore and as such, we are to surrender our desires for our life for His desires for our life.
We are in essence dying to our desires for our life and exchanging them for his desires for our life, on a daily basis. One example of this is, I may desire to hook up with a girl on the internet and start a sexual relationship with her while Christ's desire for my life is for me to remain celibate until I get married to the right woman that He has brought into my life, instead of the woman of the hour.
The only way to victoriously live the Christian life, is by learning how to die to ourselves daily. Jesus Himself said in Mat 16:24, "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man would come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."
You can not successfully be a follower of Christ if you have surrendered yourself to your own fleshly desires because everytime temptation comes around, you're going to fail miserably.
God's only desire for us as Christians, is that we become conformed to the image of Christ. This can not happen w/o learning how to die to one's self daily.
Actually, FYI, I die everyday to my sexual desires. I have to die to myself as I am not married at this time in my life so I must put my desires on the shelf for the time being and honor God with my body by living a life of celibacy.
If they are allowed to marry by man, that will not negate what the scripture states. According to scripture, it is disobedience so it really doesn't matter whether they live a life of celibacy or not because they are in disobedience period.
The whole point is moot anyway because one can not be Christian and gay.
It doesn't matter? So if a gay man were to never have sexual relations with another man, he is still in disobedience?
Based on what you've said, someone who is gay cannot ever be a Christian. Then why preach against homosexuality? By your standard, a gay man who devotes his life to Christ and abstains from gay sex is still not a Christian.
"Then why preach against homosexuality? By your standard, a gay man who devotes his life to Christ and abstains from gay sex is still not a Christian."
In God's eyes, sin is sin whether it be homosexuality or not and all sinners must come to Christ with a repentant heart.
That makes more sense than your earlier comment. My point was that being gay isn't a behavior, it's who you're attracted to. Being repentant or not doesn't change whether you're attracted to the same sex or opposite sex. So you're statement that you can't be Christian and be gay didn't make sense.
However, your more recent post seems to understand my point. So yes, you've cleared that up.
why should one have to live a life of celibacy? The lord is perfectly fine with two consenting adults gay or straight enjoying each others body in the name of the lord. We need to stop taking the bible so literally. People who do this destroy the lives of so many. We also need to stop looking at sex as a dirty rotten act. It's a beautiful thing when two people are enjoyng each other. You can be Christian and gay. I am living proof. I've been a christain for over 30 years.
"The lord is perfectly fine with two consenting adults gay or straight enjoying each others body in the name of the lord."
He absolutely is NOT!! The only thing He is perfectly "fine" with, are [a] man and [a] woman enjoying each others bodies within the confines of marriage.
"You can be Christian and gay. I am living proof. I've been a christain for over 30 years."
You have demonstrated in your comments that (1) you either have no earthly idea what the Bible says, or (2) you don't care what the Bible says. Either way, it is obvious to me that you most definitely are NOT Christian.
Not taking the Bible 100% to be what God has commanded does not mean one is not a Christian. Heck, Christ himself did not believe that all that was written in the Bible was from God, for he says that Moses wrote a law on divorce because of hardness of men's hearts but that this was NOT God's plan. However it is in the Bible. What if Christ came back and said of a verse in the beloved NT "Paul wrote this because of the hardness of your hearts"? they would deny him just as the pharisees denied him
Every word of the Bible is God breathed. If you believe that any of it is not God's Holy word and is in error, then you must discount it completely, as it can not be trusted. If His word can not be trusted then He certainly can not be trusted.
All the Mosaic laws were inspired by God. Yes it was Moses hands that put the words to the parchment but it was God Himself speaking. God allowed divorce to prevent a greater evil. One can not embrace saving faith if they can not trust God. Salvation begins with faith.
Due to the rebellion of their hearts, God permitted the people of Israel to divorce in order to protect women from being harmed or treated cruelly by their husbands out of frustration and anger.
ah ok. But i still maintain that if Jesus meant God wrote the divorce law for the time being he would have said that. Not Moses wrote that because of your hardness of heart. Moses can come up with something that God allows to take place because of their hardness of heart even though it is not his commandment. Therefore certain laws could be written due to the state of the people and not be God's will as in his holy law for us to follow for all time i.e. not God's commandment.
There is a difference between divinely inspired or breathed and God the Bible. You can trust it in the sense that if you know God himself through prayer and have a relationship with him he can guide you. There is discernment even within Scripture. Not discernment in the sense of good and evil but discernment in the sense of what is God really saying. It depends on what you mean by error. There are blatant contradictions in the Bible. I don't personally consider them error though.
I beg to differ. There are no contradictions in the Bible. Although some verses may appear to contradict each other, once you dig into them to see exactly what the writer is conveying and place that in it's proper context, the contradictions disappear.
Deut 24:16 is a reference to the penalty of sin("death" Romans 6:23) and Exodus 20:5 is a reference to the consequence of sin. Those are two completely different things. The penalty for my sin has already been paid however, when I sin, even as a Christian, there are still consequences.
The sin in question which Exodus 20:5 is referring to, is idolatry. This is a warning about the grave consequences of worshiping other gods. If a child grows up in a home with parents who are atheists, it is very likely that the child will grow up to repeat the sins of the parents and will likewise suffer the penalty and consequences of that sin.
I'm sorry but i have to disagree with this interpretation. While it makes sense that this could and does frequently happen, the verse refers to punishing those 3 to 4 generations away for sins that someone else did. there is an interesting interpretation of these 2 verses that i found elsewhere on the net which explain how they are not contradictions, but they paint God in a bad light. I appreciate this interpretation though. I agreemost lists of contradictions can be explained away with context
But it's not about punishing someone else for the sins of another. God is merciful and just and as such, He doesn't do that. Each one is judged according to his or her own transgressions. Read Jeremiah 32:17-20 and Ezekiel 18:19-20 because both of these verses go into this a little more deeply.
Exodus 20:5 on the other hand, is a warning of the dire consequences that will be heaped upon future generations because fathers are in essence training up their children to sin by worshiping idols themselves. The verse in Proverbs 22 that states "train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old, he will not depart from it", works both ways.
Also in Proverbs, is a verse that states in essence if you spare the rod of correction, you spoil the child. The child will be responsible for his/her own sins but many of his/her sins will be the consequence of the fathers/parents sin of shirking their duty to be a responsible parent by disciplining their children.
To say that the issue of whether or not homosexuality is "unnatural," is not debatable, with the assumption that it is indeed "unnatural" is to speak presumptuously, I think. Look into sociology, psychology, , scriptural analysis, etc. Become friends with Gays and Lesbians, get to know some of them and see what they're about. Then, hopefully, you'll be well informed to make up your mind regarding what you think about homosexuality and religeon.
So when did the focus of Christianity shift from the unconditional love and acceptance preached by Christ to the hate and condemnation spewed forth by certain groups today?
While the current state of Christianity might seem normal and business-as-usual to some, most see through the judgment and hypocrisy that has permeated the church for so long. People witness this and say to themselves, "Why would I want to be a part of that?" They are turned off by Christians and eventually, to Christianity altogether. We can't even count the number of times someone has given us a weird stare or completely brushed us off when they discover we work for a church.
What the hell happened? Where did we go wrong? How was Christianity co-opted by a political party? Why are Christians supporting laws that force others to live by their standards? The answers to these questions are integral to the survival of Christianity.
. It is true that all those other things he talked about are also condemned, but he doesn't explain that all of that is Old Testament law, which changed when Jesus came. Some of it stayed though. 1 Corinthians 6:9 says: Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the
. 1 Corinthians 6:9 says: Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders. (NIV) Now, since Marc Brown didn't explain why God hates homosexuality (the act, not the people), I will.
That is an absolutely terrible translation. Are you aware that the word "homosexual" did not appear in any english version of the bible before the 1950's....I think the NIV "interpreters" took a little liberty there
Yes, and thank you for showing me the love of Jesus. I can do sarcasm too. Actually the word is relevant, because what is being "described" is a practice that no longer happens (I hope) involving the worship of pagan gods and the use of young boys for sexual pleasure - if there was no word IMPOSED on the scriptural text, then we would be debating the correct issue: what are these new terstament verses REALLY referring to and what makes an act "unnatural"?
No, it does not describe a pagan practice or young boys. Romans 1:27 says "In the same way men abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversions." -NIV
If we were to determine, for instance, that an act as unnatural in the sight of God when it hurt others or was done with a lack of love, then we might be interpreting things differently. Martin Luther said not to bother interpreting scripture at all if we're going to try to do it outside of the understanding of the character of God.
The New King James Version has a similar translation: "Likewise also the men leaving the natural use of the woman, burned for their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty for their error which was due."
Also, what makes homosexuality unnatural isn't something that's debatable. Although God made both man and woman in His image, he made them distinctly different. Any attempt to break down this distinction is an abomination of His creativity. Basically saying "God, you got it wrong."
Too big for one post. Even though God made both man and woman in His image (Genesis 1:27), He made them distinctively different. And any attempt to breakdown this distinction IS an abomination of what God created. I don't hate people that are gay, they are still people. I would also like to add that I am no less a sinner than they are. But what they are doing with their lives is wrong; they are not born that way, and have been cured of it.
ummmm, you know the bible has been rewritten over centuries of time and different agendas were incorporated with each revision.....which completely destroyed the credibility of the original text. when you try to quote the bible, please don't call it the bible....call it the "revised bible"
That is not true. John MacArthur learned ancient greek in seminary so he could study the original writings. If it had been changed over time, it would be evident and changed back.
and you were there with him personally when he did all of this???? these are all stories people....stop taking them so seriously. we're ruining the entire world over some stupid fairy tales.
... does good flip interpretations...
TJae1 3 years ago
U wouldn't have a show dude, if queers were that taboo...
TJae1 3 years ago
You know what, I am Canadian and the Right wing American dream pisses me off!!
Sometimes the things the evangelicals say/do are really either stupid, or disturbed!
In my heart of hearts, I just can't see Jesus being that way. Especially after all he did on the cross.
Metaphor987 3 years ago
R U CRAZY! Unnatural affections/love for the same sex??? I am sorry to come off this blunt, but didn't Jesus come for the sinners???
PLUS!!! Get a load of this! You are going to be married to JESUS CHRIST!!! Forever! And yes he is God, but is also a men. So thurrr!
Stop judging and start loving, even if you don't agree with homosexual acts. Cause we are all in the same boat together.
Metaphor987 3 years ago
"R U CRAZY! Unnatural affections/love for the same sex??? I am sorry to come off this blunt, but didn't Jesus come for the sinners???"
Yes, He came [DELIVER] sinners. He didn't come for them to remain where they are.
"PLUS!!! Get a load of this! You are going to be married to JESUS CHRIST!!! Forever! And yes he is God, but is also a men. So thurrr!"
It is a symbolic marriage you imbecile. There isn't going to be any sex.
Whitese7en 3 years ago
"Stop judging and start loving, even if you don't agree with homosexual acts. Cause we are all in the same boat together."
If you believe that homosexuality isn't a sin, WE ARE NOT in the same "boat". I am saved and will be going to Heaven while you most likely aren't saved and will be going to Hell.
Whitese7en 3 years ago
so glad i know god loves me above anything else. i dont subscribe to strict interpretation of bible, so im free to live life the way i choose, for right or wrong, without worry. im a good person, and im gay... who's with me?
sleekcartim 3 years ago
I am with you. I also believe you can be a christian, believe in the lord and be in a loving same sex relationship. There are many parts of the bible that are absolutely ridiculous and should never be taken word for word. This book is the cause of more hatred and persecution than any book in history. Organized religion should never be allowed. It only empowers people in the worst of ways. Worship the lord one on one and you'll have a happier life. Stay far away from the church and its rhetoric.
davidshep45 3 years ago
You do have free will. The free will to decide to follow what the scriptures say or deny them and live as you choice and walk the broad path that leads to destruction and hell.
Seems you made your choice.
Camel76 3 years ago
my friend, can i ask you with respect, what would you do if you were gay, and knew you had no attraction to women with no hope of ever finding love in a str8 world? would you want the church / family / friends to have compassion for you? what would you do if they hated / avoided you? walk a mile in a gay persons shoes...before you judge
sleekcartim 3 years ago
Well, I am straight. But, I remain celibate until marriage.
It would be best for everyone to stay celibate until marriage. According to scripture it's a requirement.
Unless you can find a spouse of the opposite sex you should stay celibate until marriage.
I have nothing against anyone. You do have free will to do as you want. But, you need to follow the scriptures if you claim to be a Christian.
Camel76 3 years ago
i dont claim to be a christian, but i have many close relgious friends who are struggling, one of them commited suicide :( i wish you had entertained my questions...i fear you would be in great pain over it, like many gays. i am celibate too btw. i try not to judge, it's not my job. im happy you are following all the scriptures, i wish you happiness, you have an easier life than gay ppl.
sleekcartim 3 years ago
No one should drive another to suicide, no matter what they do.
I did answer your question. I said they should stay celibate. I'm glad to hear you are.
I know many think that I might have an easier life, but I don't. In this society many people will look down on you for being a virgin as long as I have. Just look at the movie the forty year old virgin.
But, I won't give in to their taunting.
I have to follow the scriptures.
If that means staying celibate until I die.
Camel76 3 years ago
sad to say my friend didnt think he had any chance of going to heaven, just because he was gay, the church & catholic school told him that often. he was gay, and everyone treated him badly... im miss him
sleekcartim 3 years ago
Don't worry, if your friend had goodness in his heart, he is in heaven. If he never opened the bible a day in his life but believed in the lord and tried to live a good life, then he is in heaven. Take heart. Your friend is safe. I am sorry for your loss.
davidshep45 3 years ago
david, kevin was a lost soul, he was abused as a kid, by his dad & priests at catholic school. he felt that if he was going to burn just cuz hes gay, that he may as well have all the fun he wanted... he was messed up from it all, he didnt have a chance. i know thats not what REAL christians are all about, but it's hard to hear them when they say bad things bout gays. wheres the compassion for a lost lamb? would you all pray for him & others like him?
sleekcartim 3 years ago
Your friend is in my prayers. I'm sure the lord has compassion for him. It's not up to us to decide who is a lost soul. It pains me when christians assume all gays are immoral creatures who wander the earth fornicating at will when in reality most gays are decent human beings who just want the same rights as others. I hope someday it will change for gays. Perhaps outwardly to the world, Kevin appeared a lost soul but to the lord he may have already had his wings. There is goodness in us all.
davidshep45 3 years ago
Mr Camel76- You have stated you have chosen to live a celebate life until the girl of your dreams comes along. May I ask if you masturbate. Be careful how you answer this for lying is also a sin. If you do masturbate then by the lords word (according to the blessed ones how penned his word) you are sinning everytime your penis gets erect and you help it spill its seed. I'm anxious to see how and if you answer this one. May god be with you.
davidshep45 3 years ago
On the subject of marriage, there are millions of gay couples who would be married this very day if laws were created to honor their wishes to do so. However, we live in a society that since the beginning of time has always persecuted those who are different. We've based our laws on a book (supposedly inspired by god but written by man)that has caused more harm to society than good. It doesn't allow for free thought or happiness based on ones own desires. Would god really want this for us?
davidshep45 3 years ago
Now we've heard it all :P
TJae1 3 years ago
GAY PEOPLE ARE GREAT.
STRAIGHT PEOPLE ARE GREAT.
The Bible is just one of millions books that MAN has written.
END OF STORY.
:-)
DanielCartier1969 4 years ago
Jeremiah 29:8-9 (KJV)
8: For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Let not your prophets and your diviners, that be in the midst of you, deceive you, neither hearken to your dreams which ye cause to be dreamed.
9: For they prophesy falsely unto you in my name: I have not sent them, saith the LORD.
false prophet Jay Bakker
Camel76 4 years ago
WOW gods not real get over it. geezz. And Jay Bakker is amazing how dare you call him a flase prophet he preaches about Love and compassion, While other preachers talk about hate and fear, i was a chrisitan but After seeing what goes on in the church , I would never go back to that life style
JG129 4 years ago
Jay Bakker is a false prophet.
Psalms 14:1 (KJV)
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Camel76 4 years ago
Wow and you beleive in a false God, that there is no evidence backing up anything you beleive in how about that ? Jay bakker is an amazing man teaching people to love eachother
JG129 4 years ago
The same God you believed in before you made up an excuse so you could sleep in. :p
Are you sure Jay isn't a homosexual? He's effeminate, there's no doubt. :p
Camel76 4 years ago
Sleep In, No so i didnt have to hear anymore Lies that are being spread, We should all learn to love eachother, There never was a god and there never will be, I hate telling people that but its true, we just have to start beleiveing in eachother and not hating other people for having different opinions, If your a christian then follow in the steps of Jesus a man who beleived in love and forgivness
JG129 4 years ago
Revelation 3:19 (KJV)
19: As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Romans 1:28 (KJV)
28: And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Camel76 4 years ago
Yeah who cares, that was written by god it was written by old men with agendas. the bible was not even written 200 years till after jesus was dead, it was all made up for political Power, study your history, You wouldnt know what christanity was if it wasnt for Emperor Constaintine
JG129 4 years ago
Wasn't written by god****
JG129 4 years ago
The Bible was written by the men God chose to write it.
Camel76 4 years ago
Good news everyone. I just spoke to the lord this morning and he sent this message "Leave our gay/lesbian brothers and sisters alone. They are no more sinful than the lot of you. I give them permission to enjoy a healthy happy sexual relationship just as I have given heterosexuals the same privilage."Amen. The lord also asked that his word be added to the book of Levitcus.
davidshep45 3 years ago
God wouldn't use a homosexual to send his message. When his scripture is against the unnatural "affection" of sex between the same sex.
It's your free will to do as you please. But, don't try to say God told you anything.
Your comment is blasphemous.
Camel76 3 years ago
Couldn't the bible also be made up of false prophets. After all, anyone can claim to have spoken directly to the lord and scribble down laws he has supposedly asked them to write. I just did it in my previous post as a test. And from what I have read of the bible, it consists of a bunch of nuts trying to control people of their day by scaring the hell out of them with what God will do to them if they don't follow certian rules. MY God is not a God to fear. He loves me just as I am.
davidshep45 3 years ago
So, first you defend sin then say the Bible could be made up and you call yourself a Christian? That's logical. :/
Also, you try to defraud me by asking me ludicrous questions, not relevant to the topic.
Seems you're a "Christian" out of fear.
You can't pick and choose what you like from the scriptures.
Homosexuality will always be unnatural and a sin.
Camel76 3 years ago
Did I strike a nerve Mr. Camel. You're a typical Political/Christian avoiding questionns that pertain to your own sins. So you do masurbate. I knew it. You big sinner! It was an honest question that needed an honest answer. It's ok for you to call homoexuality a sin but when it comes to your own sins of lust you clam up just like a politician caught with his pants down. I do believe in God and only use the word Christian for lack of a better term. I do not fear the lord. He is with me always.
davidshep45 3 years ago
Mr Camel-My question was not out of line and you answered it by not answering it. They've trained you well. It's ok for you to expect Gay Christians to hold their desires in and remain celebate for eternity but it's ok for you to masturbate while thinking lustful thoughts of young virgins with perky breasts. We could easily round up the worlds hypocrites by simply attending our churches on Sunday mornings.
davidshep45 3 years ago
You're defending sin and attacking me for no reason.
The scriptures do say things about trying to defraud a brother. Which you're blatantly doing.
Camel76 3 years ago
Dear Mr Camel76- In no way am I trying to defraud you. I am simply trying to save you from the sin of masturbation as you were simply trying to save the wayword homosexual. I have admitted my homesexuality to god and the world. Can you admit you secretly masturbate and think of beautiful young women while pretending to the world to be saintly and celebate. Now, if you are indeed a saint, I get down on my knees and apologize, however if you do masturbate be honest and admit your sins and be saved
davidshep45 3 years ago
Seems you get a thrill from attacking people and asking them perverted questions.
I was only saying what the scriptures say.
I wasn't attacking anyone. I don't judge people. I tell them what the scriptures say.
You can choose to deny or follow, that is your choice.
Camel76 3 years ago
My Dearest Mr Camel- It it just like a Christian to point out the sins of others while spewing scripture but when the tables are turned you skirt around the issue when it comes to your own sin. I know the topic is homesexuality but you have opened this can of worms. Your making a fool of yourself by not answering my question on whether or not you masturbate. Your like many of the Ministers who preach against adultry on Sunday and pound the church secretary Monday through Saturday. So sad.
davidshep45 3 years ago
The only reason you brought it up is because you wanted to defend homosexuality and try to hurt and defraud someone.
As we all know now, you're a homosexual.
I believe you are getting your thrill by going around asking perverted questions.
I never attacked you, but you felt the need to attack me.
I still don't hate you and I forgive you for the personal attack.
Camel76 3 years ago
My Dearest Mr. Camel- You are darn right I meant to defend homosexuals. I've been defending them most of my life. If you are Man enough spew scripture while pointing out the sins of others can't you be man enough to admit your own. I think you should admit to our utube friends that you have committed the sin of masturbation and you have lusted in your heart. After Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggart admitted their lustful sins on National Television. A small utube confession is small potato's.
davidshep45 3 years ago
You defend sin? That is a sin in itself.
Just admit you get your thrills from asking people perverted questions, for no reason.
Seems you like to further the homosexual agenda, not spread the message of salvation as you are supposed to.
Those televangelist are liars and steal people's money. Look how well they live off the "offerings" or "love offerings" of others.
They are con artists and they are bought and paid for by the government's puppet masters.
Camel76 3 years ago
so you're admitting he's a brother even though he's a homosexual?
lukesavageiii 3 years ago
No, you didn't. I'm not a political anything.
All politicians lie and they have an agenda.
Look up William Cooper for more details.
You still are defending sin.
Also, you're attacking me with questions not related to the topic, to try to defraud a Christian.
Just to stick up for those who follow their unnatural affections as the scriptures say.
Camel76 3 years ago
It's too bad people have fallen so far from the precepts of Christianity, and have foolishly made their own meager life into the wisdom of the ages.
Just as the ancient Greeks and the Romans fell to their decadence and corruption, so must we, it appears. Too many folks know nothing of history, and are doomed to repeat it due to their arrogance and selfishness.
cecilbdml 4 years ago
This was such a great sermon! I'm glad Marc spoke on this.
kaijuman 4 years ago
ahhhh... supercuts, polo, gilette, & homosexuality... the same? any ellaborations?
TJae1 4 years ago
we're dealing with two different types of history in that scenario. one is much more concrete and recent than the other. no i wasn't at his inauguration and i don't deny it happened. i also don't go around telling people they are abominations going to hell for being who they are. you people need to start learning how to practice your fairy tales in peace....and leave people dealing with reality alone. we're tired of having to cater to your nonsense.
reden0024 4 years ago
I watched Jim And Tammy During the Years they were on together, Loved them Anytime I neeeded lifted up they'd be on PTL!
Tammy will be missed I will see You one day up in Heaven too Tammy
crazyjcl 4 years ago
Go to "Responding To Pro Gay Theology" here on youtube it has the TRUTH.
timm9 4 years ago
There is a VERY big diffirence in the NEW & OLD testament not all the laws carry over.
timm9 4 years ago
beautiful. i love this video. go revolution!
Ksaulan 4 years ago
Jesus' love cannot be contained in male and female! Granted the science of life still belongs to a man and a woman, in one fashion or another, but the role of nuturing that life, or feeding and holding and loving that child, belongs to any man or woman, or any combination therin, who find themselves the strength and compassion required. That's an awesome loving God!
denislane1 4 years ago
Thanks for at least entertaining the thought -
missoulameddle 4 years ago
[The Sins of Scripture] is an amazing text to read if anyone is interested in "Discovering God's Love through texts of Hate"
missoulameddle 4 years ago
No thank you. I don't believe that book has anything to offer that I need.
Whitese7en 4 years ago
Well then don't expect to be taken seriously in your condemnations if you're not willing to be intelligent and open-minded in your arguments.
TommyGDub 4 years ago
I have no desire to read a book written by a person whose agenda is to rewrite the scriptures or in some way discredit them from being the inerrant words of God, which is exactly what John Shelby Spong's agenda is to do.
Whitese7en 4 years ago
So you know the motives of Spong's heart? He's never set out an agenda, but you already know it through reading his brain? Is that a gift of the Spirit?
lukesavageiii 3 years ago
"So you know the motives of Spong's heart? He's never set out an agenda, but you already know it through reading his brain? Is that a gift of the Spirit?"
Yes, it is actually. The spirit reveals what is truth to the believer. Besides, knowing who Spong is and what he is all about already, reveals to me the agenda of his heart in writing this particular book.
Whitese7en 3 years ago
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
ukidding 4 years ago
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
ukidding 4 years ago
Actually, you are both wrong because eating shellfish or anything that was once deemed unclean according to Jewish law, is no longer an abomination. Read Acts 10:11-15. As for homosexuality however, it is now and it will always be an abomination.
You're focusing on the wrong thing, don't focus on the law. The law was fulfilled in the body of Christ in order that once we accept Him, we are no longer bound to the law.
Whitese7en 4 years ago
But we are still bound by the old testament, and just throwing out certain texts because they don't conform to your idea of what "true" christianity is, is hypocritical. Afterall, I'm sure your one who believes in creationism, and since it is mentioned in the old testament first, you have to abide by it, regardless if you believe only in what the New Testament has to teach you.
Porsche51688 4 years ago
The Levitical laws were written to address certain issues of the day that were a part of their everyday lives, such as slavery. It was part of their society so laws were written which addressed the issues that they faced concerning slavery but that is not to say that the Bible encourages slavery today, as some critics like to argue.
Whitese7en 4 years ago
Slavery however was as common place to them as traffic is to us so laws were written to govern it's practice. The slavery laws are no longer relevant to us but that doesn't mean those verses are any less important than other NT verses because I think we can still learn from the history of the levitical laws.
Whitese7en 4 years ago
Actually, slavery then was not like what we think of it as today. I can't think of the passage off the top of my head, but it was God telling the Israelites that if a man had no money, he could sell himself for work. There were laws in place for humane treatment of them.
adr127 4 years ago
That is very true and it's a fact that critics of the Bible either are ignorant of or conveniently ignore.
Whitese7en 4 years ago
You are wise beyond your years adr127.
Whitese7en 4 years ago
Lev 25:39 "If an Israelite becomes poor and sells himself to you, don't work him like a slave.
Lev 25:40 He will be like a hired worker or a visitor to you. He may work with you until the year of jubilee.
Lev 25:41 Then you will release him and his children to go back to their family and the property of their ancestors.
Whitese7en 4 years ago
Thats it. I knew it was in Leviticus, but I was in a hurry to leave the house when wrote that. Thanks Whitese7en.
adr127 4 years ago
Actually, when you speak of homosexuality as the Bible represents it, you're talking about the Greek word "arsenokoitai" which literally translates to "man bed". No one really knows what that means so technically, you have no idea whether or not homosexuality as we know it today is in fact an abomination in God's eyes or not.
TommyGDub 4 years ago
Well I guess it just depends on where you look. My greek language dictionary defines
"arsenokoitai" as one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual.
Even if we rule out the abomination reference from the OT, it is just as strongly condemned in the NT.
So yes, I do know for a fact(according to scripture) that the practice of homosexuality is against the teachings of the scriptures.
Whitese7en 4 years ago
What greek language dictionary are you using? I know greek and you are definitely wrong. Besides, it is the NEW TESTAMENT that was written in greek, not the old.
lukesavageiii 3 years ago
Foreignword(dot)com
Well, if I'm "wrong", then it's not me that's "wrong", it's the dictionary that's "wrong".
The word is made up of two words "arren" which means male and "koites" which means 1. a place for laying down, resting, sleeping in 1. a bed, couch 2. the marriage bed 1. of adultery 3. cohabitation, whether lawful or unlawful 1. sexual intercourse
Whitese7en 3 years ago
"Besides, it is the NEW TESTAMENT that was written in greek, not the old."
I never said the OT was written in greek.
Whitese7en 3 years ago
ding ding ding! we have a winner!
lukesavageiii 3 years ago
"ding ding ding! we have a winner!"
??
Whitese7en 3 years ago
Gay is Good?
TJae1 5 years ago
"I used to be bisexual" HAHAHA! Suck a dick if you wanna suck a dick. Leviticus is not the only book in the bible with ridiculous statements, either.
tattypatty 5 years ago
rrivas90814: Talk about being naive....do you really think homosexuality was only condemned in the old testament? Read your new testament as well...like Romans, and Revelation. Bringing up beards and shellfish...straw men...tsk tsk. Let those with ears to hear...
gdmjmatt2540 5 years ago
man greated god in HIS image!
smeejay 5 years ago
I used to be bisexual. God can and does change people, but only if they totally submit themselves to His will. His word is clear on it, and false prophets and deceived ministers don't change a thing. I have compassion toward my homosexual friends and neighbors, but I do not condone sin of ANY kind. Stand up for what is right or get left. There is forgiveness for those who REPENT, not for those who hang on to "pet sins."
gdmjmatt2540 5 years ago
You can't change how God made you...why do you make God so simplistic and put all your faith in a book that was ultimately written by man. Sorry, but you sound naive and very impressionable. His word is clear you should not eat shell fish or shave your beard...read Leviticus..come on!
rrivas90814 5 years ago
So if someone likes to have sex with 6 and 7 year old kids, that's okay cause God made that their sexual preference? Is that right? Cause that's what I got out of your comment. Everyones mind set turned out according to plan, and not only that it cannot be changed, but the thought of change is mean to the people with those mind sets.
adr127 4 years ago
I can't believe you're actually comparing homosexuality to pederasty. There is absolutely no comparison between monogamous LOVE between two consenting adults and rape between a man/woman and a child. You should be ashamed of yourself. Pedophilia is, from what I understand, a mental illness; homosexuality is NOT.
TommyGDub 4 years ago
What an idiot? There is no link what so ever between homosexualy and Pedophilia. Making this comparison is the typical response of a brain washed christian. Everyone including our dear lord knows that most of the crimes against children are committed by heterosexuals. If you want to talk child abuse, when was the last time you heard of a homosexual beating, raping and murdering a child. Check your facts moron. This honor goes to the heterosexuals.
davidshep45 3 years ago
Its funny how the only thing the religious right have to hold over people is fear. Fear of retribution, fear of damnation, and just fear in general. If you live your life, and you follow God out of fear, rather than embrace God as an ally that will never abandon you, then there is no reason for you to believe. REPENT for sins because they bring pain and anguish to others, not because your selfishness dictates o mindset of getting left behind, if you dont.
Porsche51688 4 years ago
Couldn't agree more, one's motivation should never be what's in it for me?. However, as a practical matter, usually when people first come to Christ, it's because they realize they need a Saviour or they will go to Hell. Once this has been accomplished, God will begin to take that person through the sanctification process, which is where we learn how to treat and put others first as well as learn the very important concept of dying to one's self on a daily basis.
Whitese7en 4 years ago
"Dying to ones self on a daily basis"? Please explain. Thanks.
demliars 4 years ago
When Christ willingly went to the cross in our place, what he did is give His life for ours. (Read Gal 2:20) What this means, is that since He gave His life for ours, He now owns us and we belong to him. Our lives are not our own anymore and as such, we are to surrender our desires for our life for His desires for our life.
Whitese7en 4 years ago
We are in essence dying to our desires for our life and exchanging them for his desires for our life, on a daily basis. One example of this is, I may desire to hook up with a girl on the internet and start a sexual relationship with her while Christ's desire for my life is for me to remain celibate until I get married to the right woman that He has brought into my life, instead of the woman of the hour.
Whitese7en 4 years ago
The only way to victoriously live the Christian life, is by learning how to die to ourselves daily. Jesus Himself said in Mat 16:24, "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man would come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."
You can not successfully be a follower of Christ if you have surrendered yourself to your own fleshly desires because everytime temptation comes around, you're going to fail miserably.
Whitese7en 4 years ago
God's only desire for us as Christians, is that we become conformed to the image of Christ. This can not happen w/o learning how to die to one's self daily.
i hope this explains it.
Btw, that was a good question to ask.
Whitese7en 4 years ago
Easy to say if you are an hetero christian. You die to nothing.
I celebrate, i do not die, i celebrate the way God created me, being gay. Hallulujah
pimento45 4 years ago
Actually, FYI, I die everyday to my sexual desires. I have to die to myself as I am not married at this time in my life so I must put my desires on the shelf for the time being and honor God with my body by living a life of celibacy.
Whitese7en 4 years ago
Well, then if homosexuals are allowed to marry, then they can also live a life of celibacy until marriage.
corway73 3 years ago
If they are allowed to marry by man, that will not negate what the scripture states. According to scripture, it is disobedience so it really doesn't matter whether they live a life of celibacy or not because they are in disobedience period.
The whole point is moot anyway because one can not be Christian and gay.
Whitese7en 3 years ago
It doesn't matter? So if a gay man were to never have sexual relations with another man, he is still in disobedience?
Based on what you've said, someone who is gay cannot ever be a Christian. Then why preach against homosexuality? By your standard, a gay man who devotes his life to Christ and abstains from gay sex is still not a Christian.
That's some twisted logic you have.
corway73 3 years ago
"It doesn't matter? So if a gay man were to never have sexual relations with another man, he is still in disobedience?"
Not if he's living a life of celibacy.
"Based on what you've said, someone who is gay cannot ever be a Christian."
An unrepentant sinner of any kind can not be a Christian.
Whitese7en 3 years ago
"Then why preach against homosexuality? By your standard, a gay man who devotes his life to Christ and abstains from gay sex is still not a Christian."
In God's eyes, sin is sin whether it be homosexuality or not and all sinners must come to Christ with a repentant heart.
"That's some twisted logic you have."
I hope I've cleared that up.
Whitese7en 3 years ago
That makes more sense than your earlier comment. My point was that being gay isn't a behavior, it's who you're attracted to. Being repentant or not doesn't change whether you're attracted to the same sex or opposite sex. So you're statement that you can't be Christian and be gay didn't make sense.
However, your more recent post seems to understand my point. So yes, you've cleared that up.
corway73 3 years ago
"However, your more recent post seems to understand my point. So yes, you've cleared that up."
Good!
Whitese7en 3 years ago
"Well, then if homosexuals are allowed to marry, then they can also live a life of celibacy until marriage."
whether they are celibate or not doesn't matter if they aren't Christian.
Whitese7en 3 years ago
why should one have to live a life of celibacy? The lord is perfectly fine with two consenting adults gay or straight enjoying each others body in the name of the lord. We need to stop taking the bible so literally. People who do this destroy the lives of so many. We also need to stop looking at sex as a dirty rotten act. It's a beautiful thing when two people are enjoyng each other. You can be Christian and gay. I am living proof. I've been a christain for over 30 years.
davidshep45 3 years ago
The reason people should live celibate until marriage?
The scriptures say to and with AIDS and herpes it's common sense.
Sex isn't dirty in the confines of marriage.
No one is destroying anyone's life.
Most people that have premarital sex, mostly males are using the other person to get what they want.
That should be a crime.
Camel76 3 years ago
"why should one have to live a life of celibacy?"
Because God tells us to through His Holy Word.
"The lord is perfectly fine with two consenting adults gay or straight enjoying each others body in the name of the lord."
He absolutely is NOT!! The only thing He is perfectly "fine" with, are [a] man and [a] woman enjoying each others bodies within the confines of marriage.
Whitese7en 3 years ago
"We need to stop taking the bible so literally. People who do this destroy the lives of so many."
NO, people who do that are pleasing to God.
"We also need to stop looking at sex as a dirty rotten act."
I agree because it isn't, within the proper context but unfortunately, people make it "dirty" by being disobedient to God.
Whitese7en 3 years ago
"You can be Christian and gay. I am living proof. I've been a christain for over 30 years."
You have demonstrated in your comments that (1) you either have no earthly idea what the Bible says, or (2) you don't care what the Bible says. Either way, it is obvious to me that you most definitely are NOT Christian.
Whitese7en 3 years ago
Not taking the Bible 100% to be what God has commanded does not mean one is not a Christian. Heck, Christ himself did not believe that all that was written in the Bible was from God, for he says that Moses wrote a law on divorce because of hardness of men's hearts but that this was NOT God's plan. However it is in the Bible. What if Christ came back and said of a verse in the beloved NT "Paul wrote this because of the hardness of your hearts"? they would deny him just as the pharisees denied him
returnofcrazyA 3 years ago
Every word of the Bible is God breathed. If you believe that any of it is not God's Holy word and is in error, then you must discount it completely, as it can not be trusted. If His word can not be trusted then He certainly can not be trusted.
Whitese7en 3 years ago
All the Mosaic laws were inspired by God. Yes it was Moses hands that put the words to the parchment but it was God Himself speaking. God allowed divorce to prevent a greater evil. One can not embrace saving faith if they can not trust God. Salvation begins with faith.
Whitese7en 3 years ago
What is the greater evil?
returnofcrazyA 3 years ago
Due to the rebellion of their hearts, God permitted the people of Israel to divorce in order to protect women from being harmed or treated cruelly by their husbands out of frustration and anger.
Whitese7en 3 years ago
ah ok. But i still maintain that if Jesus meant God wrote the divorce law for the time being he would have said that. Not Moses wrote that because of your hardness of heart. Moses can come up with something that God allows to take place because of their hardness of heart even though it is not his commandment. Therefore certain laws could be written due to the state of the people and not be God's will as in his holy law for us to follow for all time i.e. not God's commandment.
returnofcrazyA 3 years ago
There is a difference between divinely inspired or breathed and God the Bible. You can trust it in the sense that if you know God himself through prayer and have a relationship with him he can guide you. There is discernment even within Scripture. Not discernment in the sense of good and evil but discernment in the sense of what is God really saying. It depends on what you mean by error. There are blatant contradictions in the Bible. I don't personally consider them error though.
returnofcrazyA 3 years ago
I beg to differ. There are no contradictions in the Bible. Although some verses may appear to contradict each other, once you dig into them to see exactly what the writer is conveying and place that in it's proper context, the contradictions disappear.
Whitese7en 3 years ago
Deuteronomy 24:16 and Exodus 20:5
It's either Luke or Matthew on the birth of Christ.
These are contradictions in that they both couldn't have happened, but i agree that the spirit behind these is the same
returnofcrazyA 3 years ago
This is one of those cases where what looks like a contradiction, isn't, once you dig into the verse and look at it in it's proper context.
Whitese7en 3 years ago
Deut 24:16 is a reference to the penalty of sin("death" Romans 6:23) and Exodus 20:5 is a reference to the consequence of sin. Those are two completely different things. The penalty for my sin has already been paid however, when I sin, even as a Christian, there are still consequences.
Whitese7en 3 years ago
The sin in question which Exodus 20:5 is referring to, is idolatry. This is a warning about the grave consequences of worshiping other gods. If a child grows up in a home with parents who are atheists, it is very likely that the child will grow up to repeat the sins of the parents and will likewise suffer the penalty and consequences of that sin.
Whitese7en 3 years ago
I'm sorry but i have to disagree with this interpretation. While it makes sense that this could and does frequently happen, the verse refers to punishing those 3 to 4 generations away for sins that someone else did. there is an interesting interpretation of these 2 verses that i found elsewhere on the net which explain how they are not contradictions, but they paint God in a bad light. I appreciate this interpretation though. I agreemost lists of contradictions can be explained away with context
returnofcrazyA 3 years ago
But it's not about punishing someone else for the sins of another. God is merciful and just and as such, He doesn't do that. Each one is judged according to his or her own transgressions. Read Jeremiah 32:17-20 and Ezekiel 18:19-20 because both of these verses go into this a little more deeply.
Whitese7en 3 years ago
Exodus 20:5 on the other hand, is a warning of the dire consequences that will be heaped upon future generations because fathers are in essence training up their children to sin by worshiping idols themselves. The verse in Proverbs 22 that states "train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old, he will not depart from it", works both ways.
Whitese7en 3 years ago
Also in Proverbs, is a verse that states in essence if you spare the rod of correction, you spoil the child. The child will be responsible for his/her own sins but many of his/her sins will be the consequence of the fathers/parents sin of shirking their duty to be a responsible parent by disciplining their children.
Whitese7en 3 years ago
"It's a beautiful thing when two people are enjoyng each other."
Only when it's [a] man and [a] woman and only within the confines of marriage.
Whitese7en 3 years ago
And how many "pet sins" might you have hiding in your closet? Concerned citizen for the ethical treatment of Gays and Lesbians.
davidshep45 3 years ago
To say that the issue of whether or not homosexuality is "unnatural," is not debatable, with the assumption that it is indeed "unnatural" is to speak presumptuously, I think. Look into sociology, psychology, , scriptural analysis, etc. Become friends with Gays and Lesbians, get to know some of them and see what they're about. Then, hopefully, you'll be well informed to make up your mind regarding what you think about homosexuality and religeon.
AllenCKM 5 years ago
like if, Why does any1 care about gay-dom.... it's contributions to society, R:
TJae1 5 years ago
My mother condemns homosexuality, but she's married three times over,
and according to scripture, is herself living in sin. She's always saying that
she doesn't agree with homosexuals who identify themselves as Christians.
I wonder how she would feel is some self righteous Christian told her that
they didn't agree with her being a Christian because she's "living in sin."
lowerfortyeight 5 years ago
Easy for someone who is straight to say that they "weren't born that way." How would you know?
A "breakdown of distinction"? "Abomination"? We are all fallen. We all fall short.
Another thing that gets me is how Christians
(ineffective, preachy, self righteous ones, by the way, who do more harm to
Christ's message than good) always hyperfocus on the homosexual issue.
Sin is sin.
lowerfortyeight 5 years ago
His name is Jesus Christ. It might do you some good to read about him, and what he taught,
instead of pointing fingers, condemning, and trying to act like God. That's God's job,
and it's between God, and the person who has a relationship with Him, not you.
You do a great disservice to Christianity (almost an ugly word to me these days)
when you act like a self righteous, judgemental pinhead. People like you turn people
away from grace and salvation at every turn. Wake up.
lowerfortyeight 5 years ago
So when did the focus of Christianity shift from the unconditional love and acceptance preached by Christ to the hate and condemnation spewed forth by certain groups today?
gayzok 5 years ago
While the current state of Christianity might seem normal and business-as-usual to some, most see through the judgment and hypocrisy that has permeated the church for so long. People witness this and say to themselves, "Why would I want to be a part of that?" They are turned off by Christians and eventually, to Christianity altogether. We can't even count the number of times someone has given us a weird stare or completely brushed us off when they discover we work for a church.
gayzok 5 years ago
What the hell happened? Where did we go wrong? How was Christianity co-opted by a political party? Why are Christians supporting laws that force others to live by their standards? The answers to these questions are integral to the survival of Christianity.
gayzok 5 years ago
. It is true that all those other things he talked about are also condemned, but he doesn't explain that all of that is Old Testament law, which changed when Jesus came. Some of it stayed though. 1 Corinthians 6:9 says: Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the
adr127 5 years ago
. 1 Corinthians 6:9 says: Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders. (NIV) Now, since Marc Brown didn't explain why God hates homosexuality (the act, not the people), I will.
adr127 5 years ago
That is an absolutely terrible translation. Are you aware that the word "homosexual" did not appear in any english version of the bible before the 1950's....I think the NIV "interpreters" took a little liberty there
lukesavageiii 5 years ago
The word that is used is irrelevent, they all describe the same thing. Thanks for contributing nothing.
adr127 5 years ago
Yes, and thank you for showing me the love of Jesus. I can do sarcasm too. Actually the word is relevant, because what is being "described" is a practice that no longer happens (I hope) involving the worship of pagan gods and the use of young boys for sexual pleasure - if there was no word IMPOSED on the scriptural text, then we would be debating the correct issue: what are these new terstament verses REALLY referring to and what makes an act "unnatural"?
lukesavageiii 5 years ago
No, it does not describe a pagan practice or young boys. Romans 1:27 says "In the same way men abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversions." -NIV
adr127 5 years ago
If we were to determine, for instance, that an act as unnatural in the sight of God when it hurt others or was done with a lack of love, then we might be interpreting things differently. Martin Luther said not to bother interpreting scripture at all if we're going to try to do it outside of the understanding of the character of God.
lukesavageiii 5 years ago
The New King James Version has a similar translation: "Likewise also the men leaving the natural use of the woman, burned for their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty for their error which was due."
adr127 5 years ago
Also, what makes homosexuality unnatural isn't something that's debatable. Although God made both man and woman in His image, he made them distinctly different. Any attempt to break down this distinction is an abomination of His creativity. Basically saying "God, you got it wrong."
adr127 5 years ago
Too big for one post. Even though God made both man and woman in His image (Genesis 1:27), He made them distinctively different. And any attempt to breakdown this distinction IS an abomination of what God created. I don't hate people that are gay, they are still people. I would also like to add that I am no less a sinner than they are. But what they are doing with their lives is wrong; they are not born that way, and have been cured of it.
adr127 5 years ago
ummmm, you know the bible has been rewritten over centuries of time and different agendas were incorporated with each revision.....which completely destroyed the credibility of the original text. when you try to quote the bible, please don't call it the bible....call it the "revised bible"
reden0024 4 years ago
That is not true. John MacArthur learned ancient greek in seminary so he could study the original writings. If it had been changed over time, it would be evident and changed back.
adr127 4 years ago
and you were there with him personally when he did all of this???? these are all stories people....stop taking them so seriously. we're ruining the entire world over some stupid fairy tales.
reden0024 4 years ago
Well, it's not like you were around for George Washington's inauguration, But I'll bet you don't deny it happening.
adr127 4 years ago
Touche!!
Whitese7en 4 years ago