BBC - Generation Jihad - Ep2 - (Part 6 of 6)

[TDOTEMPIRE]

wrong, you can be punished for simply the thoughts of the crime. aka attempted, conspiracy, abetting etc. gosh =\

[martyaus2905]

Allah fuckbar

[Hiphopstuff23456778]

so his father is saying, when punish them after kill 1000 of people? instead perverting from happening?

[MrHanzai100]

My comments are not good here bunch of kids wont understand.

[hardman476]

fuck you paki paki out there aint not paki in the unio jack all you pakis fuck off back

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN

[KiboshAllmighty]

@starinthehoodmuzz FUCK YOU!

[KiboshAllmighty]

@William00048 FUCK YOU!

[starinthehoodmuzz]

If you think of killing someone its not a crime so let him kill someone then arrest him and lock him up hmmmmm BULLSHIT execute the worthless little shitbag

[shantanu6]

Do we still not see where religion leads us to..cant we understand we dont need this but empathy and compassion..which we as a specie still had 5000 years back when we did not have these religions

[William00048]

There are only 2 things wrong with Islam. The Quaran and the Hadith. When will we get a grip and ban this religion as a hate religion. There are many good & wonderful Muslims out there. But they can not get away from their scriptures & their scriptures command them to convert or kill the non believers. It is nonsense and intolerance should not be tolerated. If NAZISM was a religion would it get a free pass because we are tolerant? Just because it is a religion shouldn't give it a free pass.

[7ankss]

THE FATHER is himself a paki cunt muslim terrorist....

Its a gang of fathers and son's.... of muslims....

need to kill them all

[cliveso]

Intention to commit crime is itself crime.

[anythreeletters]

@cliveso Regardless of whether you think intention is sufficient to warrant punishment, intention alone is a far cry from CONSPIRACY (I really wish there were italics) to commit crime. In this case, not only did this individual WANT to, he demonstrated willingness and capacity to commit crime. Specifically, he demonstrated this by making that film which is irrefutably surveillance intended to be used in terrorist actions.

[tomekjan79]

all of them should be donated to science as lab rats

[d3st88]

The father was full of shit.

[Draza145]

@Deioth But still, science gives conclusions based on data not on nothing based only at the base of logic.That was done before but not now because it has proven the scientists wrong many times. But it is something to be expected by people who use selfworship. But science hasn't explained all religious views and all things to a religion. Origin? No, it hasn't explained anything there. We still can't come from nothing. Reality I don't know what you mean.

[Deioth]

@Draza145 And logic is applied from that data. Scientists prove themselves "wrong" all the time so that theories become more precise and correct or are thrown out in favor of better theories. That's the scientific process doing what it should. Science isn't trying to explain religion, it explains reality, and by understanding reality we can logicaly deduce religion as fiction. It's only a matter of time before science can fully explain the Big Bang, and it's our best explanation of what happened

[keeyk118b]

this is treason.  they should be executed.

[Dhaku420]

its the ignorance and the political correctness bs in US thats indirectly promoting terrorism. u are labelled a racist if u voice out the evil truth about islam. yet even worse, the US higher educational institutions allow radical muslims to give talks and seminars that misguide the younger generation into believing that islam is a religion of peace and is being attacked by the western world.

[atypicalindian]

I am sorry but I have no fucking pity for the fucking parents of these terrorists!!!!!!

Don't fucking tell me they were "gentle and good boys"!!!

That boils my blood!!!

[RustyAli27]

I also find it interesting when the so called "moderate Muslims" say that "it's a small number of people that wage jihad" where we clearly see that this jihad-agenda is done around the globe by a huge number. I think, these so called "moderate Muslims" have been successful enough deceiving us.

[RustyAli27]

Sadly, This parent (Prof. Syed) is in denial and hiding the actual truth. It's noticeable that he doesn't seem to believe that his son committed much of a crime. This (lying to unbelievers) is not a crime in Islam.

[cunt3d]

i hate these triple nigger bastards

[RunningFromGrizzlies]

is the dad fuckin stupid? its ur fault mostly for raising ur kid to be a terrorist. god i fuckin hate them. I'm glad America is fighting back against these motherfuckers. America needs to stay there until they are pummeled into the ground. The dad is a fucking retard complete denial maybe hes a terrorist too.

[islambychoice]

@RunningFromGrizzlies you have alot to learn my friend the dad obviously is going to be on his childs sides ........if you hate these 'Fing Bastards' maybe you should open your eyes more and realize innocent civilians are killed everyday in Iraq and Afghanistan so whose going to stop America? No one will stop them....so muslims can say were glad these guys are fighting back America like you said im glas Americas fighting back

[lollol986]

the parents in the muslim community are just plain fucking retards.. u d think having a dad as a professor he'd be a little more educated on radical mindsets , yet he's so naive to it all good job old man u raised a no good cunt of a terrorist

[wade2bosh]

banned from the interwebz....hahhahah

[ugboy1]

Muslims must be DEPORTED!!!! They are a threat to liberty, freedom and the constitutions of civilized countries!

[islambychoice]

@ugboy1 Might aswell say that about Black ppl too they should be deported because they do crime. Your comment is so uneducated is hilarious. Theres bad ppl in every religion culture country continent etc etc but your too ignorant to realize that. And where should you deport them too if America or the Uk is there home country? Maybe we should deport you for being so dumb your a threat to society with your stupidity you might do something so dumb so we cant trust you.........Deported!!!!!!!!

[snaforfun]

total propaganda...

I dont trust the bbc ... for one reason. they never NEVER point that if the killing of Muslims in Iraq (millions) and afghanistan stops all the problem would be solved .

they keep saying internet and alqaida and generation Jihad 1000 times

but never say 1000 times what the US army is doing in IRaq

total propaganda...

what I think is , all those were going to fight as freedom fighters in Iraq , and not as terrorists.

have u seen wiki leaks and what the us are doing in iraq?

[born2fight23]

@snaforfun

listen bastard in the islamic world theres loads of propaganda, most of the muslims killed in iraq were carried out by there own fellow muslims, tell me when was the last time you heard about the americans blowing up shia mosques in iraq in pakitan terrorists killed 100's of worshippers when they were offering prayer in a suffi masjid before that 80 were shot dead by wahabbi terrorists in karachi so stop living in denial

[snaforfun]

@born2fight23 I never met a single Iraqi who beleive this shit

and all say is carried out by American undercover aganets using remote controlled bombs .. then the so called governemnt rolls in ad bla bla suicide bombers.

actually some people caught 2 british soldiers wearing Arab clothes and planting bombs in cars near a crowded shop.

they were in prison in Basra, the british Tanks broke in the Prison and liberated

them

you think we are stupid ?

[snaforfun]

@born2fight23 suddenly whenever there is a conflict and USA shit is there u find these things .. b4 that no bombs no nothing ..

once a US patrol stopped a farmer took him aside and inspected his CAR. then they said u can go .. after like 15 min his car stopped in the desert near the city.

he went to get help he walked like 10 min and hear an explosion .. his car exploded..

he said if I was still driving those 10 minutes i would be in middle of the market and I would been labeled a terrorist

[snaforfun]

@born2fight23 do u hear such stories in you shit media ? ofc not

and u will say propaganda .. well guess what ... we dont believe you. there are shia/sunnni all around the world why we only see this when USA shit is there huh ? or near ?

where are the bombings against shia of Saudi Arabia ? huh ? there are 2 millions shia there

in IRAQ Saddam time ? in Syria ? in Lebanon ?

oh yea America isnt interested there yet

u think people are idiots?

this propagnada is for you.

[snaforfun]

@born2fight23 google British caught in Basra .. this leaked into the western media and we have 100 other stories like those ...

and guess what .. we will win .. the new Nazis of USA and their lies will loose and goto history books same as Hitler DID

[islambychoice]

@snaforfun Did you see the BBC documentary saying Bin Laden is not part of Al Quada anymore there was no proof that he was part of "Al CIAda" lol Its a plan to take all our liberties away in the name of Terrorism.

[dcfnfb]

Nonetheless, the west in its lie claim of "weapons of mass destruction'" further took its greedy tyrannical advantage, killed the life of over 1,033,000 people which is well documented within their own press. As for 'Muslims killing Muslims' as said and refuted, as for any other killing, it is factually due to the unwanted oppressive occupation of the west.

[polka23dot]

Treatment of Jews in Arab/Islamic Countries: w w w . jewishvirtuallibrary . o r g / jsource/myths/mf15.h t m l

Since 1945, the number of Muslims killed by other Muslims outnumbers those killed by Israelis by a factor that far exceeds 100-1. source: w w w . nysun . c o m /pf.php?id=55137&v=9335610811

What really happened in the Middle East:

w w w . terrorism awareness . o r g /what-really-happened/

Facts about Israel: w w w . you tube . c o m / watch?v = CeVvMJdvEX8

(remove spaces)

[dcfnfb]

If your specifically referring to Saddam regime, I say how long after the invasion did it take to capture him and remove his fellow men from dictatorship, honestly, few months? Hence after his arrest it remained no longer necessary to stay in Iraq.

[aminadoualeh]

Didnt you noticed it was like pakistani central lol how many pakistanis are there?

[dcfnfb]

A million pounds is not required at all to prevent the spread of so called "radicalisation" Let the western world simply end their oppressive, greedy occupation of the Muslim world and allow the Muslims to rebuild their own political ground and yes without any of their interferences. We have our OWN divine law we desire to live by, so long as you don't get this through your corrupted heads the western world would NEVER live in complete harmony.

[ThePoGuEUK]

Your OWN law, that will be Mohammedanism law aka Imaginary friend's law?

Let the muslims end their oppressive, greedy ways on their fellow muslims.

[Deioth]

Problem is it's not just the West. Islam is its own greatest enemy having committed the worst crimes against itself. More Muslims have died due to extremist in fighting between Islamic sects than have died by Western hands since 9/11, I'd wager.

The west certainly is not innocent in any way. Afghanistan was handled like shit and Iraq was a war of lies (Bush et al deserve life in solitary confinement for crimes against humanity). But Muslims need to stop killing each other for real change.

[polka23dot]

Christians flee the West Bank and Gaza Strip because Muslim mobs attack them every day. This why there are no Jews living in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

There is plenty of Muslim Arabs living in Israel. They enjoy more freedom, more political rights, and more economic prosperity than Arabs living in any Arabic country.

[cyanide444]

@polka23dot Go kill yourself. Christians have JOINED Hamas (an Islamist organization). The largely Marxist PFLP has joined sides with Hamas. Israel is a lie. The West is a lie and a selfish whore.

[Hamzazaie]

@polka23dot

Oh really!??!?!?! Do you know personally any Israeli Arabs??? REALLY REALLY ARE YOU SURE??? Or are you just regurgitating the usual stuff you've heard???

[manu0033]

its the parents fault not the fault of Islam....the parents are not telling the children about the real Islam because they dont know.....and then they find sum shit on the internet that fukz them up......they need 2 buy n read the Quran n not go lookin 4 it on the internet......the internet did not spread Islam......the Quran spread Islam....

[gph61]

I don't know what these idiot parent expect. If you teach your kids to believe and or respect primitive bull shit their brains are pre-fucked.

[Dfanatic1]

Fucking Muslins. They are all a bunch of animals that only want to see the world burn. I moved from Brazil to Toronto and I must say that seeing this makes my blood boil. I had no idea they were so committed to going through with that plan, those bastards! It's too bad that the western world has been contaminated by muslims. Their damn religion is a cancer on this planet!

[Deioth]

Religion itself is the cancer. Islam is just the most recent and most violently evolved strain. Secularism is the cure.

Support your local centers of science, reason, and education!

[pmallon64]

@Deioth

1. I'm not really sure if that's true. I mean, secular political and social movements can also lead to violence and terrorism. The full typological spectrum includes political terrorism, social revolutionary terrorism, nationalist-separatist terrorism, state-sponsored terrorism, etc. Look at terrorist organisations and individuals such as "Shining Path", (Also known as "The Communist Party of Peru"; responsible for 30,000 killings), FARC (Marxist-Leninist organization in Colombia;

[pmallon64]

2...funded by drug money and driven by at least 5000 forced child-soldiers. They have massacred literally thousands of small communities in rural Colombia.) "Revolutionary People's Liberation Party" (Turkey), "Irish Republican Army" (N.Ireland), "Khmer Rouge" ("Communist Party of Kampuchea"; killed between 1.4 million and 2.2 million in Cambodia), "Animal Liberation Front" (eco-terrorism), "Red Guards" (Murdered and tortured hundreds of thousands of people in China),How about a better known...

[pmallon64]

3...example; "Nazi Party" (Fascist/national-socialist organization; murdered six million Jews and six million other people from other targeted groups). Can religion be held responsible for these acts of violence and terrorism? Particularly when we consider that many of these organizations adhere to the anti-theistic dogma of socialism/marxism? The real culprit behind such violence is the tribalistic mentality which evolution has endowed us with. Religion is but a mere manifestation of this.

[Deioth]

@pmallon64 That you decided to include Nazis in your list has already destroyed your argument. Also, secular doesn't mean socialist or communist, and you're making connections to the three with terrorism as if they're are hand in hand. Secular means no religion in government. It's man-made, man-ran. What people do with it is their own business. USA is a secular capitalism, you know.

You have no clue what you're talking about and are responding to a 6 month old comment. Goodbye.

[pmallon64]

@Deioth

1. hahahaha...you're a nice guy. First off, I love how you claim that the inclusion of the Nazi party has destroyed my argument; with no logical explanation of why this is the case. (How intellectually thorough you are).I realise that secularism doesn't mean socialism/communism, but they ARE secular ideologies! That's my point! DUH! You contended that "religion is the cancer", and "secularism is the cure". I countered that secular ideologies can ALSO result in violence and terrorism

[pmallon64]

2..and that what underlies BOTH religiously-motivated terrorism and politically-motivated terrorism is the "us-against-them" tribal mentality which, as a social species, we have evolved.The point is that even in a world without religion, violence will still occur, because tribalism pervades all collectivist ideologies; be they secular or religious.Blaming religion itself is parochial and over-simplistic. If you don't have the intellectual capacity to engage in rational dialogue, that's fine.

[Deioth]

@pmallon64 Because Nazi Germany and Hitler's attempted genocide WAS PURELY CHRISTIAN IN NATURE. And by your same logic, capitalism is also a secular ideology (but then again none of those are ideologies, they're economic models).

The problem with religion is that they have God on their side when they commit evil. Somehow, god makes them not wrong. A "secular" body doing evil would be called out by any rational person. Religion promotes us-vs-them, secularism can be built to condemn it.

[pmallon64]

@Deioth

1.OK I'm actually embarrassed that you are a fellow atheist. Your claim that the Nazis attempted genocide was "purely Christian in nature" is exactly the kind of grossly over-simplified, uncritical bullshit that I would expect from religious conservatives. Seriously, do some actually research and discover what the consensus among leading historical experts is. Things are never as black and white as you seem to believe. A complex myriad of factors lies behind all historical events. With

[pmallon64]

2...regards to the Holocaust; of course 2000years of Christian anti-semitism played a part in the dehumanization of the Jews; but there is so much more to it than that. Uncritical, paranoid Nazi ideology played a huge role, as well as Aryan-fanaticism and fervent nationalism; all of which relates back to German ethno-centrism. (TRIBALISM) The pseudo-science of Social-Darwinism is another factor. Look, most historians define the Holocaust as referring to the attempted genocide of the Jews AND

[pmallon64]

3...the mass murder of at least 6 million others including gypsies, polish, soviets, religious/political dissenters and the mentally/physically disabled. Now think about it- the attempted destruction of all people with disabilities; do you really think that such an act is consistent with Christian doctrine concerning charity towards the weak, poor and sick? Answer honestly and think about all the Church-funded homes for the disabled that existed in Germany before Hitler's rise to power. This

[pmallon64]

4...is were tribal mentality comes in. The superior Aryan "Master Race" are contrasted with the unclean Jews/Slavs/Poles/Gypsies; "Untermenschen" (subhumans). The Nazis rationalized that the (Aryan) Germans had a biological right to displace, eliminate and enslave inferiors. This is pure ethno-centric tribalism. It's the same mechanism which operates within religious conflicts; the righteous muslim community ("Ummah") is contrasted with the sinful infidels ("Kafir"), the Sinhalese Buddhists are

[pmallon64]

5...contrasted with the unclean Hindu Tamils (Sri Lanka). This is the mechanism underlying all human conflict. Your explanation of the mechanism behind religious conflict is nonsense. First off, religion is not one static bloc; there are thousands of religions practised today and only a fraction are monotheistic, making your claim your claim about "God on their side" ridiculous, and clearly not applicable in the Sri Lankan example. "A secular body doing evil would be called out..." SERIOUSLY??

[pmallon64]

6. How many more examples must I give you?? Khmer Rouge; communist organisation (secular body); murdered 2million people who were outside of the the communist agrarian family (tribe); including ethnic minorities, intellectuals and urban-dwellers. Please stop over-simplifying and start thinking rationally. TRIBALISM is the cancer and the recognition of our universally shared humanity is the cure; religion is just another manifestation of tribalism!

[pmallon64]

@Deioth *However I admit that you are correct to an extent about monotheism. Monotheism breeds absolutism which breeds fanaticism. The belief that you are the one rightly-guided community who has contact with an ultimate God, of course leads to intolerance and violence. But it's over-simplistic to say that all religion is monotheism and that secular societies/organisations can't fall victim to the same sort of absolutism. (Absolute belief in the superiority of one's group; "tribalism").

[Deioth]

@pmallon64 Yeha, don't feel liek reading all that given what you have already said. I think bed is a better idea.

Though I managed to glance "Monotheism breeds absolutism which breeds fanaticism". It's Dogma you're talking about, and it exists in all forms. Religion's just naturally dogmatic, especially theologies, and that's what secularism can cure: dogma from religion.

[pmallon64]

@Deioth Secular ideologies such as communism can be dogmatic too, that's the whole point. You are proof that atheists can also be dogmatic and can remain entrenched in an unsupported/illogical position. Bit of a waste of time talking to you.

[Deioth]

@pmallon64 I don't like arguing with people who put words into my mouth and say things are something that they aren't. Suffice it to say, secularism is the idea of separation of church and state, has NOTHING to do with economic models (which is what socialism, communism, and capitalism are), and how secular or non-secular a government happens to be is not correlative to how dogmatic or non-dogmatic it is. Religion is directly correlative (quite arguably causative) on a fatih by fatih basis.

[pmallon64]

@Deioth 1.Capitalism is a set of economic models which govern a societies economic policies; JUST this.Communism and Socialism are more than this. They are political systems. Each incorporate their own economic models; "Socialist economics"/"Marxian economics", but they also incorporate political and social models of governance. They more broadly prescribe how a society is to be governed. Now because capitalism is JUST a set of economic models; it can be incorporated into a variety of political

[pmallon64]

2..systems. Ex; USA; Representative Democracy; Mixed Market Economy (This is a Capitalistic model). Vietnam; Socialist Republic; Market Economy. Now secularism is a key tenet of Communism/Socialism. You claimed that secularism is the solution to the cancer of religion. I showed through numerous examples that mass violence can occur in societies in which secularism is practised. Your view is over-simplistic in many ways. I agree with you about the "God on your side" absolutism of monotheism.

[pmallon64]

3. This does lead to intolerance and fanaticism. But not all religions are monotheistic; in the case of Sri Lanka (Buddhist genocidal action against Hindus) your theory clearly doesn't stand. The real mechanism at play is a tribalistic "us-against-them" mentality. This is the mechanism behind most human conflict. For example, the genocide in Rwandan was committed by one ethnic group against another; the tribalistic ideology of "nationalism" was a major factor in WW2, etc.

[Deioth]

@pmallon64 By your logic, capitalism is therefor a political system as well. You're full of shit. You cannot call one economic system an economic system and claim all the rest are somehow tribalistic dogmatic political systems ~as well as~ economic systems. You sound like a bigot. Good day, Sir.

[pmallon64]

@Deioth 1.This is the problem with people who don't have any qualifications in political studies trying to make claims about the field. There are areas of overlap and it becomes very confusing very quickly. That said, I really don't think I could have made this any more clear. Communism and Socialism are forms of government. Capitalism is an ideological economic system. This is not my opinion; it's in the literature (which I have studied extensively). Communism and socialism each have their

[pmallon64]

2...own economic models; but a communist society does not necessarily have to use a planned economic model. China for example is a Communist state but it uses a capitalistic economic model (Market economy). Vietnam is a Socialist Republic but it uses a capitalistic economic model. From this it should be clear to anyone with half a brain cell that Communism and Socialism are more than just economic models. They belong in the category of "Forms of government". A society's political status is not

[pmallon64]

3...defined by it's economic system. So, for ex. no one would refer to USA as a "secular capitalism" (except for a complete idiot apparently), it is a Democratic Constitutional Republic. All of this is distracting from my main point which is that tribalism pervades human conflict, whether it manifests itself in religious/national/ethnic/poli­tical grounds. Religion has nothing to do with most conflict in history. BTW; before you get into a debate you should read "Political theory for retards."

[Deioth]

@pmallon64 You do realize ever since claiming Nazi Germany was secular in nature, I've read about 5% of everything you've since replied with?  You lost all credibility with that. Might as well claim it was the Jews who started the Crusades.

[pmallon64]

@Deioth1. hahahaha...you actually participated in a debate without even bothering to read your opponents arguments??? HAHAHAHA What an intellectual lightweight you are. You can continue to believe that the holocaust was purely Christian in nature. I don't give a shit. But as I have said; years of Christian anti-Semitism played a big part, but 6 million jews AND at least 6 million others (slavs/gypsies/poles/disabled people) were killed. And as I asked; does the murder of people because they are

[pmallon64]

2...disabled seem consistent with Christian doctrine concerning charity towards the poor, weak and sick? What all the groups had in common was that they were Non-Aryan "Untermenschen" (subhuman). Nazi ideology saw biologically- superior German Aryans as having a biological right to displace, eliminate and enslave inferiors. This is pure entho-centrism (tribalism). But evidently you don't have the intelligence to entertain an idea which disagrees with your deeply entrenched beliefs. So BYE!

[Deioth]

@pmallon64 And you literally keep replying to me. You jumped into a 6 month old comment, started saying stuff, said something blatantly untrue to make a point about a term in which you are wrong in its very premise and definition, and expect me to treat this like a debate? When was it ever a debate?

Just go stroke your e-peen with your buddies and tell them this amazing story how you won a debate that never happened... in YouTube comments of all places...

[Deioth]

@pmallon64 You're SITLL replying. Seriously. Stop XD Just go talk to your friends about how you won a debate that never happened and feel better about yourself.

[Deioth]

@pmallon64 lol comment removed

OMGOMGOMGOMG LAST WORD I AM SO PETTY

... fuck now I'm just trolling XD

[pmallon64]

@Deioth Yup, I removed my last comment; I just thought fuck it, you can have the last word if you want it so badly (I realize that by posting this new comment you will indeed NOT be granted the last word LOL). Anyway; YOU HAVE HORRIBLE GREASY SLICKED BACK HAIR, DO YOU THINK THIS IS THE 50S OR SOMETHING??? LOL End of discussion.

[Deioth]

@pmallon64 Sheesh, any "debate" there was I'd win by default for you making blatant insults <3

[pmallon64]

@Deioth Any "debate" there was I'd win by default for you looking like Macaulay Culkin's retarded brother XD

[Deioth]

@pmallon64 Feeling better about yourself yet for wasting all that time and effort writing things that were never read?

[pmallon64]

@Deioth My impression of Macaulay Culkin's retarded brother - "OMG!!! I'M HOME ALONEASDFJBANV!!! *Slaps face with palm*

[Deioth]

@pmallon64 Just face it, you wasted your time and now you continue to. Why? Are you that mentally unstable? Because I would recommend not taking the Internet so serious.

Course, you could keep going, as this is rather entertaining.

[pmallon64]

@Deioth

Just FACE it; you have one really strangely proportioned face.YOU UGLY! You're so ugly, when you jerk off your hand tries to fall asleep. XD

[Deioth]

@pmallon64 My goodness, you won't stop. Are you really that upset I didn't bother debating you? Sorry, but your entire premise was flawed from the getgo, and it's pointless to "debate" someone when they clearly have entirely different definitions of every term he's arguing against than how you (or for that matter reality) define them. You literally were arguing the sky is green because you were making green out to be the color of the sky.

[pmallon64]

@Deioth I don't really know why you are still taking this seriously, I've been trolling for quite a while now. lol In any case I really don't take youtube seriously as a place for philosophical discussion. I have since posted my premise (about tribalism pervading human conflict) to a serious philosophy website and generated much discussion and agreement. But all of this is distracting from the main point; which is that you were so ugly at birth, your parents named you Shit Happens. XD

[Deioth]

@pmallon64 You don't take youtube seriously as a place to debate, yet felt it necessary to reply to me with 3 and 4 post replies... repeatedly... that I didn't read because you started with a flawed premise and flat out falsehoods. Using the troll defense doesn't work when I'm still not reading everything you reply with.

Feel free to respond again cuz I'm done spamming up the comment section, but you're more than welcome to.

[pmallon64]

@Deioth My premise wasn't flawed and I stated no falsehoods, anyone who actually reads what I wrote can see that. We are done here. Have a nice life.

[tayatay5]

@Deioth u know, it is my personal understanding, that thugs are thugs yes a lot of them use religion to commit violence but if you were to take away religion from the world, What would it amount too? Thugs would just find other reasons to commit violence, hell the third reich used science to kill millions of innocent civilians... so if thats the case then science/secularism (in a strictly postmodern way) is itself a religion.

[Deioth]

@tayatay5 Because without religion they wouldn't have anything to hide behind. Rationality can take over. Religion is the bane of rationality and reason. With reason, the general populace can label thugs as thugs, but thugs hiding behind a religion are labeled as devout and deserving of respect for being religious.

End religion, end the facade, and suddenly the assholes of the world can't cover their stench that the febreeze of faith masks for them.

[tayatay5]

@Deioth Yes, your completely and utterly correct. Its not like thugs could use other things to hide behind, such as politics, social, or environmental issues. Oh no wait they do... ending religion isn't going to fix any problems because religion, and you may find this as a shock, is an idea! Thats all and there is only as much power in an idea as you put behind it, and yes religion is a very powerful idea but there are other powerful ideas that exist...

[Deioth]

@tayatay5 Because without religion in the way, there's much more room for debate and less to hide behind. Religion in every case takes a strong, near unanimous stance on only one side of a lot of issues without no intention of budging or of compromise. Or, religion is applied to a secular problem, issue, or cause and suddenly becomes what God wants. If there was no religion forcing its sheeple to decry one side or praise their own, "thugs" are more easily labeled.

[tayatay5]

@Deioth agian, you understand what I am saying, but you fail to grasp its true meaning, I'll try one more time to educate you. You described religion as some sort of facist state, which yes I will be the first to admit in some cases it is, but in 99% of cases no it is not. There are many examples of what is called "Christian belief", or some Christian tradition not actually being in the Bible. What these beliefs are is just people throughout history interpreting the Bible.

[Deioth]

@tayatay5 "Fascist state"?

This is over. You necro'd comments just to shove words in my mouth.

[tayatay5]

@Deioth YES! i win

[tayatay5]

@Deioth and then other people interpreting those writings. religion just serves as a mirror, nothing more nothing less, and frankly most of the time that mirror reflets the good in life. Also using your "logic we might as well get rid of politics because thats something thugs can hide behind. Lets just go anarchy

[Draza145]

@Deioth You talk about reason, yet you condemn all religions in a sweep of one. You don't even know what all religions stand points are to science. When you regard science so much.

[Deioth]

@Draza145 Why must people necro my comments?

I know religion inherently demands the suspension of reason in lieu of unquestioning faith. Science seeks answers while religion claims to know them. Until religion is delegated to an entirely private matter, is pulled from the public square (insofar as its undeserved respect and position in society is concerned), and is actively denied from government, humanity will forever be plagued by the disease of dogmatic authority and obstruction of progress.

[Draza145]

@Deioth Again, you take all religions and make them equal. Please tell me how you can do that. Do you even know that for example Orthodox Church doesn't have 'dogma' in the sense of the word as you use it. You are too quick to judge. I understand that you accept the scientific method of describing the world we live in, conditions we live in. But that only explains our plane of existance. In no way does it disqualify a higher plane of existance. Science doesn't work that way.

[Deioth]

@Draza145 Keeping in mind science hasn't disproved fairies, dragons, unicorns, wizards, demons, monsters, zombies, centaurs, elves, leprechauns, Jedi, or Vulcans, but no one has proven them to exist, either. Science has, however, explained much that once only religion explained (i.e. historical Gods of Thunder, like Zeus) and thus inadvertently proven many religions false at their very foundations. What do they call religion no one believes in? Myth. Religion is just myth people still believe

[Draza145]

@Deioth Yes that is true that most religions are then proven false. BUT as I said MOST, not all, but MOST religions. And all religions don't have the same beliefs. And because of that all religions don't get falsified because of science explains some things. A good scientist knows how to limit his information. If you are so bond to science, then you should also be careful of your words and what you conclusions you express. Otherwise it is only jibberish.

[Deioth]

@Draza145 You make it sound as if that somehow means the others not instantly denounced as fiction by mere scientific knowledge gives them credit. That's the God of the Gaps argument and it's as weak as any. Also, a negative cannot be proven, so even if in 1000 years we've not seen the slightest evidence for other planes of existence for life, this does not mean they're real. Humanity must treat itself, Earth, and life as if this is it. Religion is a distraction (one proven often very dangerous)

[Draza145]

@Deioth There is no logic in what you say. I have no words really.. You say that you hold science high. Yet you make an illogical statement saying that you sure can discredit every religion based on some religions that you could discredit. I mean... really, I am lost for words. You cannot do that, because you haven't proven anything on those other religions. It is a USELESS way of logic. It seems scientific, but it isn't. Science deals with hard facts. That IS science, no logic conclusions.

[Deioth]

@Draza145 Science begets skepticism which begets reason which begets rationalized logic. Countless religious claims of origin, reality, disease, etc. have all been proven ridiculous and false by science. Just because science hasn't explained one thing doesn't give religion a pass, especially given the track record of religion. Christianity has proven itself false before science did, anyways. The only religion that makes any sense to me is Taoism which is much more philosophy than religion.

[Draza145]

@Deioth It would be like saying that ALL bacterias look the same, because we've found 5 different bacterias that look the same. Science doesn't work that way nowdays. It used to, but we are just coming in to a new age of science where the scientists are a bit more careful of what they draw of conclusions. You can hear many scientists say: 'We can't draw any conclusions, because it is dangerous to do so without proper evidence'. You can name my arguments however you want to.

[Draza145]

@Deioth They don't make a difference unless you explain my faults. And that in itself is a false way of you to argument against me, because you can give name to my 'type' of arguments but not explain, just to discredit me fast. Sorry, but I am not a fool. It is also funny how you say that you won't give religion a minute, but you do give time to argument against it. Why just not explore it first and then draw your own conclusions. And then just leave religion and those people who follow it alone

[Deioth]

@Draza145 Religion did not bring us Penicillin. Religion did not bring us the car. Religion did not bring us the Internet. Religion did not bring us refrigeration. Religion did not bring us electricity. Religion did not bring us anything of value that today's modern world, even at the most conceded possible points, can not provide for better and healthier. It's been said that God helps those that help themselves. No, that was someone doing something because they stopped praying.

[Draza145]

@Deioth Disease? What exactly? That it spreads and kills sometimes? You make an argument out of nothing here..so what if science has explained what a disease is? It doesn't change the beliefs in any shape or form. Just adds more knowledge to our world and doesn't disqualify in any way. So by you saying that because science hasn't explained everything that it doesn't give religion a pass is empty. We who are the true Christians dont have to hide behind false ideas like protestant fundamentalists.

[Deioth]

@Draza145 "We who are the true Christians dont have to hide behind false ideas like protestant fundamentalists."

You just said EVERYTHING that is wrong with religion in one little sentence. Humanity will never, NEVER have the opportunity to unite as one so long as religion exists because at its very foundation religion makes the claim that YOU are good, and NO ONE else. You denounce every other as fiction yet claim yours as absolute. And you dare wonder why I have such contempt for you.

[Draza145]

@Deioth In what way has Christianity been proven false? What do you base it on? Well, again I say that religion is not a distraction. You see what you want to see.There is none of what you say in a healthy religious view. You may think of protestant fundamentalists or the dogma of the catholic church when you state that but still you cannot rule out EVERY religion in that way. THAT doesnt make sense. Again, you make no sense. So what if God didnt give us a car? Does it really make a difference?

[Deioth]

@Draza145 Genesis is made up of two separate and contradictory origin stories. That alone, if the Bible is the perfect inerrant word, is proof enough. Nevermind the numerous claims about reality, like human origin, that science has proven to be fantasy. We evolved from lower life forms, are descended from apes, live on a planet 1.4 billion years old that is round and orbits our sun, and never suffered from a catastrophic worldwide flood. And that's just off the top of my head.

[Draza145]

@Deioth Do you actually discredit religions on that basis that because we humans built things that God doesnt exist because of that? That is just pure false method of argumentation. You only suggest something, which in this case is that you discredit religion, but the arguments in themselves have no real value to the things you say. It doesnt make a difference. God could exist anyway and God isnt a distraction. Do you even know that Orthodox priests and monks usually are well educated?

[Deioth]

@Draza145 Yes, I am discrediting religion because of that. When has god grown the crops that man toiled for? When has god cured diseases man made medicines for? When has god stopped flood waters man built levees for? When has god built the towers man smelted the steel for? When has god regrown a limb that man is now regrowing, or built the prosthetic for?? When has god been responsible for anything man has done? The answer is a resounded ~nothing~

[Draza145]

@Deioth I think this will be my last posts. I will let you have the last word. This is taking a bit time from me which I have so little of right now. Lot of things to do at school and other stuff. It has been a good debate and maybe we can continue our discussion in the future. (One thing to note in one of my posts:'Reality I don't know what you mean.' I meant when you wrote about religious claims of 'reality', which I don't understand). Anyway, take care!

[Draza145]

@Deioth Why even care? I wouldn't if I was an atheist. Not to say that you haven't explored. But it seems as you haven't since you say that it isn't worth giving time but still argument against it. When you say that if in 1000 years we havn't seen evidence..then you really fall in to my radar of not even exploring religion. Many things are happening out there. Some can be explained and some not. However, give it some time and explore.How much can a person know without even looking in to things?

[Deioth]

@Draza145 The point I make is that religion is a distraction to human potential. By its very nature, it demands suspension of criticism, skepticism, rationality, and thought. It relies on emotional response and vulnerability to plant seeds of dependence, of conformity, and of obedience. If there is something that demands application of the former, or goes against the belief of the latter, religion historically lashes out, sometimes violently. Religion chokes human minds like weeds in a garden.

[Draza145]

@Deioth And religion is not a distraction from life. I am Orthodox Christian and it has helped my people a lot through the ages. When your kings were tyrants, our were even canonized as saints. Sorry for so many responses, but I could give a lot more if we discussed in real. I have to compromise a lot here when I discuss.. =/

[Draza145]

@Deioth Based on scientific method, it can only prove and disprove things from our plane. Because it has no connection to other existance. BUT, the only thing you do can from the scientific method is to disprove each account which does concern this plane which is viewed as something from a higher plane. Otherwise, science in itself doesn't disprove anything. Atheists should stop hiding behind science. Because not all religions see science as an enemy. You should find another way to disprove..

[Deioth]

@Draza145 Every religion that makes supernatural claims about the natural world (i.e. Noah's Flood) have been proven wrong by the very claims of such religions being inspired or perfect by their skydaddy of choice and the time and time again (plenty of examples not science related, either) refutations of such claims as utter nonsense. You're presumably referring to a more deistic and spiritual style of belief which I differentiate from something religious, but they can still be harmful.

[Slickback83]

Muslims are the victims of Islam.

[ubermenschification]

In your religion, u r only punished according to your action! give me a fuckin break daddy, open your kuran and read us some verses.

As i said before if wont stop to use Al-Qaida propaganda instead of Quranic teachings,,,this problem is here to stay.

Good luck with your political correctness

[TheRationalOracle]

So in short: online radical, violent videos induce psychopathy in youths and turns them into little minions of Islam prepared to kill, just for the sake of killing; the psychopathic excuse being the cause of radical Islam.

[quickpua]

The parents and the moderate Muslim community seem to be in denial.

[Slickback83]

It is a culture of denial. Middle aged Muslim parents are the most clueless and naive bunch.

[aniketranade]

@quickpua 'Seem to be denial is an understatement;...LOL

He still says that it was all in his mind...and according to Islamic law he shouldnt be punished this much...:)

In an islamic state, they wud have shot his ass in public for acting against the state...:)