Confession (Part 3) - Archbishop Fulton Sheen

[yourtubesteak]

It's amazing how many people are brainwashed by man made catholic doctrines. Once and for all: if you have accepted Jesus Christ as savior and trust in his death,burial, and resurrection for your salvation, you are saved eternally. That's it. Period. End of story. I know I need no more forgiveness because I received COMPLETE forgiveness through Jesus at the cross, and through his resurrection I can receive his gift of eternal life. That's it. Over. Done "It is FINISHED"!

[MrWildbill20056]

@yourtubesteak You can subscribe to your incredibly illogical position if you wish to. Catholics, however, maintain the oldest traditions of the Christian belief system.

Thinking that Christ gives you a clean slate to do whatever you like 'so long as you believe' sounds frighteningly like the insanity spouted by Islamic extremists who justify murder and suicide similarly.

[yourtubesteak]

You want to understand this very simply? Go right here to youtube and type in Bob George are you convinced. Listen to him explain it as simply as it can be.

[yourtubesteak]

"Their sins and lawless acts I will remember NO MORE. Let that sink in. Christ said when you come to him as savior your sins are put behind his back for him to NEVER see them again. Do you think Christ's sacrifice at the cross has an expiration date? Jesus said there is only one sin that will condemn you to hell. Unbelief in him. People who run to confession obviously don't believe that what he did at the cross is enough to wash us clean. It is finished! PAID IN FULL..

[MrWildbill20056]

@yourtubesteak This is a ridiculous position and entirely ascriptural. Christ gave the power to retain or loose, specifically on Earth and in Heaven. This is irrelevant if what you say is true.

Are you really saying you are already justifed to murder because you believe in Christ? Hardly.

Christ makes no guarantee that your future sins are already forgiven, that's a blatantly silly position.

See Fr Paqua taking apart two opponents on this matter on the Ankerberg show.

[yourtubesteak]

@MrWildbill20056 Your future sins are not forgiven? Oh. So Jesus just died for SOME of our sins, not ALL of them. No one who has truly accepted Christ as savior is going to go out and randomly murder, ALTHOUGH, if he truly accepted Christ and did commit murder, his salvation would not be in jeopardy. There are still consequences, like life in prison, but you can't lose your salvation. "The blood of Christ washes us from ALL sin".You don't understand the new covenant either.

[MrWildbill20056]

@yourtubesteak I'll just quote you, 'If he truly accepted Christ and did commit murder, his salvation would not be in jeopardy.'

Really, really? You do realise that Christ enshrined the ten commandments, He did not do away with them. Your position makes the love of God, and of Neighbour irrelevant, because if you truly believe, then that's ok!

[yourtubesteak]

@MrWildbill20056 The ten commandments are part of the old testament jewish law which were given to show us that we couldn't keep the law and needed a savior who would pay the full debt for our sins. You obviously have no idea at all what the new covenant through Christ means.

[MrWildbill20056]

@yourtubesteak We could have a legitimate debate on this point, not nearly as polarized as you believe.

However before that, I assume, if the old law is impossible to keep that Fornication, Adultery, Murder, Homosexual union, Theft etc are all perfectly acceptable?

After all, the law cannot be kept.

[yourtubesteak]

@MrWildbill20056 No one said they are acceptable. There can still be consequences for those acts, but not as far a salvation goes. You can't lose your salvation. You don't move in and out of salvation. Christ took away our sins at the cross ETERNALLY which means you are ETERNALLY forgiven once you ask him to be your savior.

[yourtubesteak]

@MrWildbill20056 No body said these things are OK.You can't lose your salvation because of sin, but someone who is saved can lose rewards in heaven because of these acts. The first thing that happens after the rapture is that each and every one of the saved will have our lives examined and rewards given accordingly. The bible says that many of those saved will be ashamed because of abusing their freedom in Christ to keep sinning and because they brought no one to the Lord.

[MrWildbill20056]

@yourtubesteak Now, correct me if I am wrong, but when Christ speaks of the last judgement, he refers to the separation of the sheep from the goats.

Now if actions are as irrelevant to your salvation as you wish to believe, why is the demonstration or lack of charity/love directly implied as informing the judgement?

Surely the sheep and goats should only have been separated based on professed belief in Christ? :)

[yourtubesteak]

@MrWildbill20056 Actions ARE irrelevant to salvation. You can't earn salvation. That's why the bible says not to boast about works. We are saved by grace and faith in what JESUS did for us, not ANYTHING we do. Even those saved will be judged but not regarding salvation, but for the rewards given by Jesus to those who through love shared the good news with others and brought others to Christ. Jesus said others will know his disciples because they show love to others.

[MrWildbill20056]

@yourtubesteak Nope, you have not answered the question. If the sole consideration was the act of belief, why does Christ explicitly demonstrate that judgement is based upon love? Love of God and of neighbour, as fulfilled in acts of love.

You may think, delusionally, it is sufficient to 'feel' love, however that love is impotent, it is another 'good intention.'

We all know which particular road the proverb says is lined with such!

[yourtubesteak]

@MrWildbill20056 You don't understand the verses. If you don't understand that it is all Jesus and NOTHING of us to be saved, then you don't understand the NEW covenant. You want to base salvation partially on YOUR works. Doesn't work that way. You need to read whole chapters and keep things in context instead of cherry picking one or two verses and trying to make them mean something that they don't.

[MrWildbill20056]

@yourtubesteak I am hardly cherry picking! I am quoting directly relevant testimony from the ultimate authority.

Of course your actions matter. Can you ever be 'worthy' of salvation? Of course not.

However that does, in no sense, remove from you the obligation to try!

Further you already acknowledge the power of actions to influence your salvation, otherwise how could you make the choice to be reborn in Christ? o.O

[yourtubesteak]

@MrWildbill20056 I went to a friend's funeral in a catholic church yesterday and the priest talked about how we should pray for the deceased so that they don't suffer for a long period in purgatory. I suppose you believe that catholic church fairy tale as well,or maybe you do since you say our future sins weren't paid for and forgiven at the cross.

[MrWildbill20056]

@yourtubesteak Well that comes from Maccabees, which protestants conveniently excluded so they could make their own rules without contest. Yet Paul prays for his dead friend, strange that, no?

You do realise that the day of judgement has yet to come? You do realise that the dead are not currently in either heaven nor hell?

If Judgement is yet to come, and prayers are listened to, why would they have no possibility of success?

It's simple logic.

[yourtubesteak]

@MrWildbill20056 And I suppose you will tell me that Maccabees is part of the inspired word of God? The dead are not currently in heaven or hell? "To be absent from the body is to be in the presence of the Lord". A believer in Christ who dies is IMMEDIATELY in the Lord's presence in spirit. Only the body lies asleep. At the rapture the body (our new bodies) are reunited with our spirit. So according to your thinking, you can fall in and out of salvation. You don't get it.

[MrWildbill20056]

@yourtubesteak You might as well ask what part of Acts is part of the Inspired word of God.

Further there is absolutely no reason to think that our concept of 'time' has any relevance to God. Consider that to a 'dead' person time could have no meaning. Relative to them, the time between death and resurrection for the final judgement is non-existant.

Assuming one, final judgment for all, as Christ states, it is still to come for all, living and dead.

[yourtubesteak]

@MrWildbill20056 So according to you, when you accept Christ your past sins are forgiven, but when you sin again you have to go and get more forgiveness. If you can't see the absurdity of that, I don't know what to tell you.Christ said there is ONE unpardonable sin. Unbelief in Him. Because when you believe in Him ALL OF YOUR SINS are pardoned. You don't have faith enough to believe that Jesus is powerful enough to take away ALL of our sin and the sin of ALL the world.

[MrWildbill20056]

@yourtubesteak Yes, one truly accepting Christ your sin is forgiven you. However this does not act pro-actively, Christ does not claim to forgive all your future sins.

The very earliest Christians are recorded as having endorsed the sacrament of penance. Further the power of leasing or binding given to the apostles by Christ is meaningless if all things are 'loosed' by Christ already!

[yourtubesteak]

The bible says that is is faith that please God when it comes to the new covenant. If you keep running to a confession booth it shows that you have no faith in what Jesus did at the cross to ETERNALLY take away your sins. Did Jesus say "it is ALMOST finished'? Did he say "it is partially finished and now you have to go to a priest to get the rest of your sins forgiven"? No. "IT IS FINISHED". "There sins and lawless acts I will REMEMBER NO MORE". When you come to Jesus your sins are gone. FOREVER

[yourtubesteak]

HE is not going to shed his blood again. The debt for ALL of our sins was paid at the cross. The bible says "where these (sins) HAVE been forgiven (past tense), there is no longer any need for a sacrifice for sins. When you keep asking some priest to forgive your sins (which he has no more power to forgive sins than you or I), you are doing what the bible calls "trampling on the blood of the covenant and making it an unholy thing".

[yourtubesteak]

"When you go to confession to get your sins forgiven". Is he kidding? The bible CLEARLY says "there is NO forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood". Where is the shedding of blood in a confession booth? When Jesus said "it is finished" he meant it. Paid in full. You either believe that or you don't. Obviously if you are running to a confession booth you don't believe it. Get your sins forgiven through the blood of Christ in the confession booth? Jesus shed his blood at the cross ONCE!

[cheesemonkey1990]

@yourtubesteak The Blood of Christ is present to be poured mystically over your soul when the words of absolution are pronounced.

[yourtubesteak]

Nonsense. I don't need forgiveness from any priest. I was ETERNALLY forgiven at the cross of ALL my sins. Past, present, and future. This shows how the catholic church does not understand the new covenant. He keeps saying how WE have to do this and WE have to do that. WE are out of the equation. It's ALL Christ and NONE of us. He did the work to take away ALL of our sins.