Unrest in the Amazon - Understanding the Issue Part 3 of 3

[truthfactssunshine]

I see couple of the spanish contributors have ignored the basic questions about who owns the land that has been stolen from the natives by thieving, conniving church and spanish dingos. By telling them lies about a religious stories originating in middle east about the world beginning 6000 years ago, and scrweing up their minds, so the church could steal their lands and souls. Hope you thieving swines rot in your christian hell of your own making. Leave these poor natives in peace, you bastards.

[truthfactssunshine]

Who owns what in Peru? What is the political system? What has changed since the spanish coloniser murdered millions of natives leading upto 20th century. Are the one's who committed genocide still in charge and own all this land. Who is this bloody garcia, is he of spanish extraction? Why isn't he listening to natives. Which countries in SA have progressive native leaders and what are they doing about it?

[juanchirimoya]

In any case, WHY can't the resources available like oil, gas or biofuel production be exploited intelligently and respecting the environment?

He and other enviromentalist never make clear WHY this is impossible.

[Aleph20]

Actually, the sustanibility of oil explotation can be discussed only with the participation of the afected people. The problem is that Garcia's government plans to sell wide extensions of land without any participation of native people (and, of course, this kind of negotiation doesn't mean necessarily the best enviromental care conditions)

[cesarlopezrojas]

Actually, no. The goverment of Peru which represents almost 29 million in peru and 3 million abroad have decided to give land owned by the state for EXPLORATION and EXPLOITATION. How exactly these activities will be carried out is a matter to be controlled by the appropiate ministries. In any case, the regulations that control these activities can always be improved. Norway has done a great job developing its oil and gas resources.

[cesarlopezrojas]

Unless the native people have degrees in agricultural, petrochemical or mining engineering I dont see why they need to be involved as long as their quality of life is not disturbed and they benefit from the taxes generated by industries located in their territories through the construction of infrastructure, schools, etc.

The goal is to develop Peru's resources not to destroy the Amazon basin. Maybe you're confusing Peru with Brasil.

[Aleph20]

wow,

please check out about the performance of Plus Petrol in peruvian jungle, then tell me.

I strongly recommend the Qorianka Kilchner documentary abut enviromental impacts.

If you still remain in your opinion, then your are confusing reality and propaganda.

[juanchirimoya]

Plus Petrol started operations in '95, peru's oil industry is abit older than that. Qorianka Kilchner? you mean global warming started with al gore's movie?

I'm not confusing anything but you should really get an education. If the regional leader does not represent the voters that gave him political powers, then who does? you're suggesting anarchy not a democratic system.

[Aleph20]

well...

take some courses in sociology or anthropology, it's worth.

;)

[cesarlopezrojas]

what for? it'll make me a better person?

[Markitos0]

...

[Markitos0]

hahaha! you are blindfolded duh!

[Markitos0]

I think he's not talking about how global warming has begun. By the way, "Rio corrientes" pollution is a case of enviromental law desregulation. You say people can negotiate the terms of explotation but, in legal language, they lack of mechanisms.

[cesarlopezrojas]

you dont make much sense, but at least it is a dialogue. I meant to ridicule his comment that I need to watch a documentary by a celebrity to understand or become informed about a subject. Although I do recommend The world according to Monsanto by Marie-Monique Robin.

[Markitos0]

I thought it was just an example,

e.g. check out Sicko, The corporation, Farenheit 9/11...

He's just suggesting

[cesarlopezrojas]

yes you can negotiate the terms of development and minister brack knows the environment rather well, he can participate and help define terms and compliance mechanisms. the team worlking on the tlcs also have a lot of experience in negotiating terms with international institutions.

[Markitos0]

hahaha

sorry, but I've heard some things about recent Brack's report on Yanacocha Co. and it's enviromental impacts.

[cesarlopezrojas]

Even the mess at la oroya was being cleaned up, the remedial work was up to 60% completed, the financial fraud games being played by doe run are not the peruvian govt's fault. the point is you can have sucessful and controlled exploitation.

[Markitos0]

indeed you can. As long as you count with the legal support. I doubt that Peru has it.

[juanchirimoya]

Why so negative? Because we dont have as many lawyers as the usa?

DOnt be so condescending, we've been around for a long time. Even in the states the EPA was created eventually wasnt it?

[juanchirimoya]

Mr Chase Smith claims that the peruvian govt did not pay attention to whom? or what? pizango's threat?

They tried to establish a dialogue and he refused to participate unless important national laws were eliminated. He's not an elected regional politician and the several hundred indigenous people he claims to represent cannot assume ownership of the entire amzon basin. that would be absurd since it belongs to the entire nation.

[Aleph20]

1) everybody can participate in politics, not only elected authorities.

2) imagine that the peruvian State plans to gather sand from Lima, and your house is going to be demolished and turned in a quarry. Don't you think you should be repaired in economic terms? or, at least, asked if you wanna get out?

[cesarlopezrojas]

1.I'm not sure what you mean by participate but obviously only elected or appointed officials can make decisions.

2.You need to come up with a better analogy or comparison, my house does not occupy thousands of square miles (Amazonas region 39,249.13 km²).

[Aleph20]

first, multiethnic nature of peruvian population makes political representation a big deal. You may got a regional president in Loreto but hardly he'll understand the motives of minorities (huitoto, shipibo, amuesha, pano peoples).

Second,

We are not talking abut the extension of your house. But the right to be asked when any affair involves you.

[Markitos0]

the extension. hahaha

[Aleph20]

It's really annoying to see how my brothers are being mistreated by our president who, based on 19th century ideas about what development is, tries to anhiliate any kind of opposition and criticism to his government.

We are having many problems in Peru, from recession to an energetic crisis to come. The point is that Alan Garcia focuses native people as the cause of the problem and as the enemy of peruvian State. The same way Hitler did with jews.

[truthfactssunshine]

Why hasn't anone reported on recent shootings in Peru and murder of innocent native people. It seems the spanish dingoes, led by the president of peru, are still continuing to murder native people at will. can't believe this sort of thing is still happening in 2009! Seems south america is still in dark ages, where spanish colonisers can murder at will. Why is US letting this happen in it's back yard?

[Aleph20]

You know that even in Lima, capitol of Peru, people is not informed about what is happning inside the country. Several times Peru has been bleeding while Lima's people thought everything was quiet, the problem is that massive media is being manipulated, in some cases the very few critics of the system are silenced, in other cases the newspapers and tv programs do not want to say anything because they belong to a small group of rich people.