The Turbah: The soil stone ANSWERING THE SUNNIS AND WAHABIS

[ahmadsalmanext]

answer me a simple question.....if for the sake of argument i admit what u say.....so kindly replace mud of karbala to the mud of mecca......

mud of karbala has already been dirty with the bloodshed as the blood of people killing Imam Hussain (pbuh) also fell on the same ground.....whereas we all know that place where kaaba is located (mecca) is free from any war or bloodshed since time immortal .....

if u can't do this....then dont try to defend your bidaah with so called sunni hadees.....

[RezaRohaniMuslim95]

Rasulullah SalAllahu Alayhi wa sallam, might said that the EARTH is a place to make Salah on, but he didn't say a STONE, and as Pj100000 says, have can you have something with Allahs name on the floor?

[Live2Improve]

@RezaRohaniMuslim95 The prophet (pbup) said to prostrate on natural things (earth), the so called "stone" you are referring to is made out of clay/mud. Since while at home or mosque we can't prostrate on the ground directly, rather than to abolish the sunnah, we have taken extra steps to preserve it. As with having something with Allah's name on the floor, a logical consequence of that argument would be not to place the Quran on the floor as well. =]

[RezaRohaniMuslim95]

@Live2Improve

TO abolish the sunnah? Beg me pardon; HA!

Rather pray on a floor, carpet or something else, than adding a new element into our deen (The Turbah). You guys might think "Oh you wahhabi, it's better to stay close to an act of sunnah by inventing a new way of practising it than abolishing it totally..."

Well, rather perform the sunnah as it is instead of inventing a new way of practising it.

Maa Salaam

[runeguy277]

@RezaRohaniMuslim95 And u sunnis burn the quran is that alright?!WTF think before u make ur stupid comment

[numan723]

i cant seem to find the hadiths that are quoted from Bukhari and Muslim. can anyone tel me their hadith number?

[pj100000]

hi there.. just wanted to say how can you have something with gods name on it and on the floor the same level as your feet.. think about it .. proves theres something wrong... lololol

[jambe1234567]

what, are you ok? do you not ever put the quran on the floor? i see it in sunni masjids

[Live2Improve]

@jambe1234567 please brother, there is no such thing as a Sunni or a Shia masjid, it's a place of worship to Allah alone, don't extrapolate further. As a branch of Islam (Shia) that is most misunderstood and prejudiced against, it's not fitting for us to further divide the Islamic community with these remarks. Also note the Imam Ali 's(as) conduct when he's rightful position was usurped. it's nothing less than sheer patience & devotion to Allah. he withdrew his opposition to keep islam united.

[PERSIANSHIA]

@pj100000 not really because Allah is everywhere anyway and your saying Allahs name onto the floor in sujdah anyway is that wrong? plz think before you speak ignorance

[AzerbaijaniBeauty]

thx for posting brother... it's very interesting

[dawoudii]

can someone help me get a turbah in holland?any info?cuz now i do sajdah on a peice of paper in my wallet,lol!!!!!!!!!!!!

[courseworkdue]

We try.

[honestknight1]

Yeah ON earth, but NOT WITH earth. The turbah in hell will become alive and will say to the shi'ah that made it: You take me as a partner with Allah???

[courseworkdue]

With? How do I pray with the earth does the turbah stand next to me? What the hell are you talking about?

And do you have a narration or proof to back up what you say? Remember shia do NOT worship clay.

[ezzy1147]

Here is a good argument... Can u agree that the path of Allah(SWT) does not misguide? If so then lets assume for a moment that turbah is a way going closer to the path? Now look up the video "MIRACLE ON TURBA"... This is why Islam does not crosses, turbas, or anything the proximity thereof. So we don't go looking for miricles other than the Quran!

[ezzy1147]

Your argument as to the nature of soil and carpet is horrible... ASTAGHFURRALLAH... EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD IS MADE BY ALLAH... "manmade" is an illusion. Please remove this silly argument.

[courseworkdue]

Go pray on money. That too is manmade in we are to use your logic. Go on, go do sujud on a ten pound note. By natural he meant directly from the earth but which cant be eaten or worn. The fiqh rules are not as simple as you think

[ezzy1147]

First lets set one thing straight since you don't understand the proper way to debate an argument.

BE VERY SURE YOU SPEAK WHAT YOU MEAN.

With that said lets proceed to my argument. "go pray on money". According to my argument this is not manmade. In case you didn't understand I'll reiterate. NOTHING IS MANMADE. There is no such thing. If if was a clean surface it doesn't matter what you pray on. Pray on silk or on soil it makes no difference.

[ezzy1147]

If you'd like to debate this in terms of metaphysics please proceed but I warn you. You'll lose. Good luck.

[courseworkdue]

How modest of you.

I know the argument you are making. It is a cop out. Rasoul (saaw) never prayed on the type of carpets we pray on today. Technically it is a Bidah.

He pray on dust and earth and palm leaves. The turbah is made of earth. Thats as simple as it gets.

[ezzy1147]

I'm not modest, I'm well versed in philosophy so I'm quite confident, given your prior responses, that you cannot debate me in terms of metaphysics.

Lets talk bid'ah. It appears you lack fundamental knowledge on this subject. Bid'ah is innovation through change in practices that modifies the present intent of the believer or the intrinsic value of the core belief upon which that intent is bases.

I'll prove your turbah does this and and then you try to prove the carpet does.

[courseworkdue]

There's nothing to debate. You are debating on something we do not disagree on. Obviously the source of everything is Allah (swt). Dont be mischeivious.

Our turbah seeks to continue the practice of Rasoul (saaw) praying on earth. Your carpet has NO precedent whatsoever. He NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER prayed on carpet.

I win.

[ezzy1147]

The Turbah - First, understand this is a practice that the prophet didnt practice (could have but chose not to). You are simple proof that such a practice modifies the intent of the believer from one who is praying before the almighty to one whom is more concerned with the symbolic aspect of his actions. Second you have taken the core belief that the Almighty is the creator of all things and have introduced this idea of "manmade". You attack the fundamentals of Islam with such an assumption.

[courseworkdue]

My intent is to worship Allah (swt). InshAllah I will be accepted. Your intention is probably the same, the difference is in the method. You have no precedent for you method. I do. I win. You lose.

Perhaps Manmade was the wrong word to use. In terms of Fiqh sujud cannot be done on things which can be eaten or worn. Or from an animal (perhaps not killed halal). Please stop trying to insinuate I do not believe Allah (swt) is the source of all things

[ezzy1147]

LOL!!!

Your understanding of the word precedent and its application in this instance is quite wrong. If precedence is the manner by which this argument is won in your eyes then you have lost!!!

It is I who follow the precedent here because I pray like the prophet did. WITHOUT ANY SYMBOLS OR IDOLS!!! You have this piece of dirt you carry with you to which you attribute a holy connection and therefore have created a belief that runs parallel to and not within Islam.

You Lose!

[courseworkdue]

I am the one making assumptions? What a tard you are, since when did shias attach a holy connection with the turbah. Since when was the turbah one of the usool e deen? It is NOT a BELIEF.

I refuse to debate with a freshie, which is what you are seeing as you have a problem with the english language.

[ezzy1147]

You are a weak debater. You make assumptions which you are unaware of, your word usage is questionable at best, and your understanding of fundamental principals is comprimised by your practice.

Stop replying to me until you have a solid argument. (which in this instance there is none because the idea of turbah is fundamentally rejected by Islam)

Good luck.

[courseworkdue]

Rejected by Muawiyites you mean.

And thats right, run along with your tail between your legs.

You are the one who is assuming we have taken the turbah as an Idol or a symbol. If that was the case we wouldnt pray on paper, wood, stone, etc. After all, according to your sahabist view we have given a special place to the turbah so obviously we would only pray on that...

And yet we don't.

Bye, dont let the door smack your arse on the way out

[ezzy1147]

It is intrinsic to the nature of all thing held with religious regard to be either holy or idolic otherwise their purpose is null. Now your argument is that the value of the Turbah is not null. It is necessary for proper performance prayer.

Hence you have created a double edged sword you idiot. You either agree that its a useless peice of dirt thats unnecessary or that its a holy piece of dirt and therefore diametrically opposed to Islam.

EIther way I win. YOU LOSE!!!

[courseworkdue]

It is not neccessary, we can pray on wood, stone etc. You are confusing fiqh with Aqidah but then you dont really know what you are saying.

Anyway this has descended into an ego trip so peace.

[ezzy1147]

Or you can pray on a giant Turbah. lol. Your understanding of the metaphysical nature of your Turbah is weak. You continue your drone-like behavior and follow whatever your holy blood worshipping imam-elect tells you do. Good luck.

[courseworkdue]

Hold on... WHAT?

Do you even know what metaphysical means?

SubhanAllah in your attempt to sound clever you exposed your moronic self for the masses to see.

[ezzy1147]

Yes... you idiot. I've a degree in philosphy. It is the understanding of anything from its its intrinsic physical self to its underlying meaning that goes beyond the mere realm of matter.

In this care MORON your little piece of dirt is something beyond a piece of dirt because you have given it a holy status as a necessity of true worship. You have elevated it and equated it to parallel a central belief in Islam.

So please do not question me you IDIOT and embarrass yourself by the masses

[courseworkdue]

SubhanAllah.

Your stupidity knows no bounds.

I keep telling you I dont worship the turbah yet it is YOU who seems to confer some sort of metaphysical quality to it. I tell you that we can do sujud on a leaf etc yet you conveniently ignore that and keep making the same point over and over again. Regardless this is an issue of FIQH not AQIDAH. Of course you dont know the difference between them because you are being willfully ignorant

It is NOT a matter of shia Aqidah to pray on a turbah.

[ezzy1147]

Your inability to reason knows no bounds.

This matter is one that is so simple to reason through that most debaters and scholars dont even care to spend time with you idiots and prove you wrong.

The turbah, while you do not worship it, YOU GIVE IT HOLISTIC MEANING!!! You attribute to it that which is not in its nature by merit of own self. UNDERSTAND???

Hence you have CREATED a belief that runs parallel, if not opposed to, islam. UNDERSTAND??? Because the TURBAH is NOT WITHIN ISLAM!!

[courseworkdue]

You keep using the word belief.

Come back when you understand the difference between belief and jurisprudence. Aqidah is belief. Fiqh is jurispudence.

Not even the basest of nasibis (such as bilal phillips in his translation of devils deception) calls the issue of turbah a aqidah based issue, it is a fiqhi issue.

Hence even he says that on this issue, no one has created a belief.

When you understand this difference then we can talk. Until then your just making the same stupid points.

[ezzy1147]

LOL. Jurisprudence??? So now you presume to make judicial mandates that supercede the Quran and the Sunnah.

Bilal Philips has bigger issues to deal with then your stupid stupid Turbah.

[courseworkdue]

SubhanAllah.

Peace.

[PERSIANSHIA]

@courseworkdue just pray for the misguided ezzy

[sheerpayrah]

dang z. ur harsh...holy blood worshipping imam-elect. LMAO. well said!

[PERSIANSHIA]

@sheerpayrah yeah very well said bravo keep causing divisions

[ezzy1147]

Following the sunnah of the Prophet(PBUH) is Great!!! Mashallah!

But how many such trinkets did the prophet carry. It's very important to not fall into such pitfalls as the christains did. Take the cross for example. When did Isa(PBUH) say that his followers take the crusifix and put it around their neck or pray with or to it.

NEVER!!!

When observing the prophets what they don't do is just as important as what they do. The Prophet never carried such an object and so we should not also.

[15sugra]

Thanks this video has some great information.

[Matamdari110]

Mashallah Subhannallah Nice Info Bro

[MuzzyPursuit]

Thankyou bro..

Great answers..

Sent to all my sunni brothers..

[SaracenWarrior]

Man made chemical carpets made by rich factory owners who may be Zionists is supported by Wahabis instead of FREE SOIL FROM THE EARTH THAT SHIAS USE TO PRAY ON. Interesting isn't it! Traditional Sunnis, Shias, Sufis understand Islam. The British Cults don't.

[777edward]

Yeah ON earth, but NOT WITH earth. The turbah in hell will become alive and will say to the shi'ah that made it: You take me as a partner with Allah???

[kreem0007]

‏3:144 ومامحمد الا رسول قد خلت من قبله الرسل افئن مات او قتل انقلبتم على اعقابكم ومن ينقلب على عقبيه فلن يضر الله شيئا وسيجزي الله الشاكرين

Translation:

And Mohammad is not except a messenger, had passed/expired from before him the messengers, so if he died, or (he was) killed, you turned/returned on your heels , and whom turns/returns, on his two heels, so he will never/not harm God, a thing, and God will reward the thankful/grateful.

[kreem0007]

we need to tell the entier world that we are one strong hand, we believe in Allah, the uniqe not like anything else, and then we believe on prophet mohammed his messnager and his slave as well. no matter what happened after the death of Prophet mohammed (pbuh. because Allah said in the holy Quran>>>

[kreem0007]

And all Muslim on the earth did not accept that easily. what happened was for Alhussain killed me inside and i'm sure it did to you the same because you are a Muslim. and you are concern about the Islam and all Muslims.. my good brother, believe me this difference will cause alot of problems and hates in muslims communites. but me and you are the upcoming future of Muslims. we need to create a unity between each other.

[kreem0007]

Mashallah thank you brother.. but i really want you to read my comment carefully. Prophet Mohammed(pbuh) said that the earth is clean unless if it has been proved that it is not clean. my good Brother, Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) did not pray in Turbah that has the name of Allah or Hussain written on it. So, why do we make hard on us. I'm Sunni and i love Alhussain and all members of al bait. i love them because Prophet Mohammed mentioned to love them.. and believe me what happened was a tragedy...