EXCLUSIVE: Ousted Honduran President Manuel Zelaya on Democracy Now 7/30/09 2 of 3

[k1net1c]

tinyurl . com / nsfvqz

The International Mission explains that, "according to reports from the police in the capital of Tegucigalpa, gathered by the Honduran human rights organization, CODEH, there were 62 people murdered here during the first 28 days after the coup." As the Director of CODEH, Andres Pavon, explained to the International Mission, many of the victims have been shot dead with bullets of the same caliber as is used by the police and the armed forces.

[delgado2010]

I have never heard an interview so scripted.

[delgado2010]

War on peace? Progressive independent governments in Latin America. Give a break. ALABA is hardly independent. ALBA is an offspring of Castro's communism. DEMOCRACY NOW=blah, blah, blah on behalf of communism.

[elchapulin76]

Where's your evidence that ALBA is controlled by Cuba?Democracy Now communist? No mijo they simply report world events as news actual news as it happens. They aren't propagandists, they dont talk of marxism, they arent even members of any of the rvolutionary parties!

Why dont you go to the Red Lobster and buy yourself a 100.00$ plate as you continue arguing in favor of the economic embargo against the Cuban nation! Y te pones el dolar de corbata para que luces mejor como sammy en Miami!

[Anoners]

The man is clearly a delusional liar.

And it's also disquieting how all the videos and.podcasts I've listened to from Democracy Now relating to this topic have been blatantly one sided and nonfactual.

I'd expect a lot more from this program when researching what really happened in Honduras. DN has done great journalistic jobs relating to other issues, this isn't one of them.

[k1net1c]

If you take issue with a claim, why not refute it? Without doing so, you just sound like another shill.

[Anoners]

1/5

I would normally, but I didn't want to today. Have been repeating the same stuff throughout this past month, and frankly I'm tired of preaching on death ears. But since you ask so nicely, Ill give you one. (Instead of individually creating a comment explaining myself, guess Ill just copy past this comment every time Im asked to.) If you want my opinions on the matter, go to my profile and check out the "Crisis in Honduras" playlist I compiled.

[Anoners]

2/5

For starters, it wasn't a coup d'etat. It was a legit ousting of a president that constantly broke the constitution he swore to protect. The deportation of the former president was an unfortunate maneuver, but something I ultimately support. The ousting was legitimately ordered by both Congress and Supreme court. The military was acting on behalf of said bodies. Second, Zelaya constantly broke and ignored the Honduran constitution,

[Anoners]

3/5

the reason for his ousting. Zelaya lies about not wanting to change the constitution, a well established fact since months before his ousting. He wanted another term, something he refutes in the interview, another well established fact. Changing the term limit is one of the few and only things the Honduran constitution states that cannot be changed. See Article 374 of the Honduran constitution.

[Anoners]

4/5

This article clearly states anyone attempting to change the presidential term limit cannot hold public office for the period thereafter.

The referendum that Zelaya proposed and was denied was deemed illegal. For several reasons, from the ballots that were printed off Honduran soil (In Venezuela) to how they were worded to other reasons, the most damming being the obvious, the proposal to change the constitution in general (like the referendum's purpose).

[Anoners]

5/5

When the head of the military refused to spread the ballots to this illegal referendum, former president Zelaya fired him. Something that he has no authority in doing. Zelaya then took a mob of citizens to where the illegal ballots were being stored, and took them. This all leads to his arrest and expulsion out of the country.

[k1net1c]

My ears are always open to evidence.

Yes, I've also seen article 3 of the constitution. But I take issue with some of your statements. Why is it established fact Zelaya sought another term? In fact a binding referendum would only take place on the day of elections, making it impossible for a consecutive term. Furthermore, in 1985 Micheletti specifically attempted to extend term limits for Roberto Suazo Cordova. He didn't care about the constitution then, why does he suddenly care about it now?

[Anoners]

1/3

Try posting five consecutive posts without screwing up once.

.

Zelayas been pushing this since March 23rd. Heres a June 24th article the BBC wrote regarding this. Read carefully. tinyurl . com / m6nbmz

[k1net1c]

"Sus detractores lo acusan de querer mantenerse en el cargo para promover el modelo socialista."

That is always as close to evidence as coup supporters can get--unsubstantiated accusations. I can see why they didn't give due process. The referendum didn't ask 'Can Zelaya have another term?', it asked 'Would you support a Constituent Assembly?' which hardly violates the constitution. Prevention of the referendum is an attack on democracy. The electorate can decide for themselves.

[Anoners]

2/3

You're going to have to ask President Micheletti about that, and the political leaders who didnt enforce it back then. Fairly obvious to say, the two year old constitution was very new in 1985. Revisions were being made. He himself didn't have any political gain in the matter. As you know, he wasn't president of Honduras till now. But yeah, still wouldn't matter, he held public office. But no one enforced it. But here comes someone with a stake in the matter, but thats another story.

[k1net1c]

Micheletti directly violated Article 374 in 1985, why was he not exiled at gunpoint? He wasn't calling for a constituent assembly, he was proposing in no uncertain terms the extension of a presidents term limit. Why are you not fighting for his removal from the country for comitting such an unacceptable transgression? Or does the constitution not apply to the side you support? You can't have it both ways.

[Anoners]

3/3

I hope you know the story of behind Daniel Ortega or the true golpista Chavez, consecutive terms dont mean squat in CA or SA. Even if you assume power legally, illegally or like these two clowns did. Recent news btw, Ortegas pulling a Zelaya [read Chavez] and making his own referendum so that later he can go ahead and change his constitution to end term limits in his country in general.

[k1net1c]

Better yet, I know the history, not just the right-wing's hollow rhetoric.

You say the coup leaders are protecting democracy--but they've prevented votes, ignored legal recourse, and employed a coup. You say they are preventing a tyrannical government from taking control--but they've suspended the constitution, censored the press and intimidated, detained, and murdered the opposition. Can you see the disconnect between their words and their actions?

tinyurl . com / lblvcl

tinyurl . com / mf2ar9

[Anoners]

1/2

Prevented votes?-You're talking about Zelaya's own party here. Employed a coup?-Which wasn't, for reason I've already explained. Suspended the constitution? etc. The hell? Are you sure you're not talking abut Mel Zelaya here? Because you're exactly describing Mel's actions and tyrannical oppression here.

[Anoners]

2/2

The 2nd link was an opinion piece, I don't take those as actual sources.

I'm giving you facts, while you're giving me opinions & articles that were only written 3 day ago. Where was the international press & AP back then, when Mel was President?

[AndrewMann552]

On Thursday the Micheletti regime used the military to brutally repress PEACEFUL protesters, killing at least one person and sending many to the hospital. How can you suppor these lunatics? Micheletti is even going on Pentocostal religious shows "exorcising the demons" from Honduras. If Zelaya was doing something illegal they would have taken him to court, not expel him with troops in the night in the classic style of FASCIST Latin American coups.

[Anoners]

Zelaya took himself out of office, as Article 374 clearly states, & as Supreme Court and Congress both ruled.

Only Chavez supporters are taking Zelaya's side. The US + UN are against the ousting actions, and not necessarily allied with Zelaya. OAS Insulza is a hypocrite who would rather side with the Castros than side with democracy. You have no idea what you're talking about, please do more research next time.

[AndrewMann552]

How did the man expel himself when the military kidnapped him and dumped him in Costa Rica? And then they dared slap charges on the guy AFTER expelling him. Your defending the indenfisable.

[k1net1c]

You've yet to show how Zelaya is in violation of article 374.

The same OAS that expelled Cuba in 1962? You can't be serious can you?

[Anoners]

The same OAS that wants Cuba back, without Cuba having even changed at?

And I've explained extensively why and how he broke Article 374. with links. Nnot forgetting to mention how Honduran Congress and Supreme court both unanimously ruled on the matter.

[AndrewMann552]

The coup itself was also illegal because the Honduran constitution forbids the forced expulsion of any Honduran citizen, including the President. Whether you like it or not, Zelaya never shut down newspapers, closed down TV stations, murdered activists etc., Micheletti has.

[Anoners]

But it DOES seem like you're describing Zelaya.

Guess you weren't aware the bullet wasn't military or police caliber. Look it up for yourself, if you din't believe me. Zelaya created his own propaganda network, had weekly national TV 'cadenas'. FFS, the TV blackout was a two day thing. It's not like they've continued to do it. it was a maneuver  meant to minimize riots.

[AndrewMann552]

The intimidation of radio stations continues, three labor union leaders have already been assassinated. So what if Zelaya had a channel? The opposition owns all the other ones! Again, if what they were doing was so popular, why was there a media blackout? Why were they afraid of riots? When unpopular leaders are expelled, disturbances are pretty minimal.

[Anoners]

It's funny, because you're talking about Zelaya's own party here.

You're making claims such as who was popular and unpopular. Zelaya is a demagogue, of course demagogues have supporters. Won't say how many, but demagoguery is still demagoguery.

[AndrewMann552]

And if what they did was so popular, why do polls as reported by the Associated Press show that Zelaya is more popular than Micheletti? And no, Chavez does not fund the AP, apparently that's the favorite excuse of the pro-fascist coup camp. If another hurricane hits Honduras Micheletti will no doubt claim Chavez caused it.

[Anoners]

Did my posts ever claim what they did was most popular idea? No I did not. Did I say Chavez controls the international media. No, I did not. (He controls the national media in his own country, that's another story.) You're clearly delusional if you think interim government is making up excuses and blaming everything on Hugo Chavez. He's only a part of the puzzle, Zelaya is the main subject here for having friends like those.

Also, Look who's talking, you're blaming Micheletti on everything.

[AndrewMann552]

The bullet calibre still doesn't explain why the government has resorted to sending troops to crush protests. If this is such a democratic government, why can't people voice their opinions in the street? What scares the government so much that they continue imposing curfews? Why were civil liberties suspended and even house raids approved? That doesn't sound like the 80% support Micheletti "The Exorcist Of Demons" claims to have.

[Anoners]

1/2

That's an absurd questions. Of course there was going to be civil unrest Zelaya's followers just lost a president I'd be outraged too if I actually believed in his demagoguery. The military was there as peace keepers. There have been several true peaceful protests on BOTH sides/marches. Evident shown on videos in youtube. The only few protests that haven't been peaceful were in pro-zelaya protests, in which people would throw rocks, burn tires, smash windows. etc.

[Anoners]

2/2

Talking about the curfews goes along the lines of stabilizing civil discourse. After two weeks, it was lifted, then brought it back after Zelaya wanted to mount 'a popular insurrection'.

[k1net1c]

Wrong again. Where are you getting this stuff from? or is it 'original material'?

tinyurl . com / m5rhex

tinyurl . com / mujuaz

[Anoners]

1/2

"rsf org" constantly blabber about fairness in the media in countries that obviously have it. In the other article they even say the have eyewitnesses who claim to have seen the rubber bullets. what kind of investigation is this?

[Anoners]

2/2

HWR has always been a disingenuous organization, I prefer Amnesty international, but whatever. They refute the claims of military being used because of "eyewitness accounts" Yet they don't mention who exactly, and they also use journalists that aren't associated to their own group. Everything about the article is in question.

Don't care if you don't take this source seriously,

tinyurl . com / m5g2dr

[k1net1c]

Do you want me to take this seriously? Do you take this seriously?

How many accounts are you using anyways? Voting yourself up and voting others down repeatedly does not make you any more correct. It does demonstrate you are a delusional liar though.

[Anoners]

What the hell are you getting at? This comment only shows how delusional you are and it also show's that you're pron to conspiracy theories. You're probably a troofer or a birther as well.