LDSQ #3: Why Not "PRAY" About the Book of Mormon? 1 of 3

[gregersen80015]

We don't overlook studying in your mind. Moroni even says to ponder the Book of Mormon. We ask people to read and study, and pray, or in the words of a primary song, "Search, ponder,a nd pray."

[Trillidotia]

Cuteddu07: I notice you didn't answer any of my questions about your temple experiences. Did you make the motions of killing yourself gruesomely? I've read transcriptions of the ceremonies - no mention of symbolism, and exmos I know did not think it was meant to be symbolic. Nor was B. Young's Blood Atonement symbolic. They really did kill and hurt people who spoke out or tried to leave. LDS source, btw - be brave enough to look it up yourself.

[cuteddu07]

Oh boy the Blood Atonement concept. It's in the Dead Sea Scrolls, as well as the Nag Hammadi. Fact is, the church has never practiced it. Not once. Everyone who states that we did has no evidence. (Whats this, I have looked it up, and studied it more than you) It's just slander. No mention of symbolism? You mean the transcript you read from an apostate didn't give you a study guide. How shocking! The Temple itself is a symbol, and near everything in it as well.

[cuteddu07]

Yes I would, and have studied the quran, and I have also prayed about that. The Satanism piece is certainly a stretch, and absurd. You shall know them by their works. I have seen many men make mistakes in the mormon faith....but certainly nothing satanic. It is very well documented about how many good works the mormon faith does. And how do we know if you are not lead by a false spirit? I think anyone who tells me NOT to pray to god under any circumstance is being led by a false spirit.

[PolarisBlu]

1 John 4 states to test the spirits. Okay the test is if they acknowledge Jesus has come in the flesh. With this alone that takes Mormons nowhere. But in the Bible Jesus is referred to as God. Jehovah(Jesus) is God. John 1 is an example of this reference. So Jesus(who is God) has come in the flesh. My spirit acknowledges that, does yours?

[cuteddu07]

Are you saying that Mormons don't believe that Jesus came in the flesh? It would seem you need to do more research.

[PolarisBlu]

Good works aren't enough to identify who is Christian. JW and Muslims and athiests all do good deeds. So what? And the occult thing doesn't mean you guys worship Satan. I have been in your church. But, the question is in my mind why the occult symbols on your holy temples that are really sacred?

[cuteddu07]

Maybe you should do some research in those symbols, and what they really mean.

[cuteddu07]

We don't overlook the "if these thing are not true" That is perfect grammar in many near east languages. If you did some research, you would find that Joseph Smith prayed for WISDOM, for what church to join. He got his answer. With that being said, its really quite sad that you believe that you cannot ask god for confirmation.

[JTownSmith]

As a catholic.. I must say..

SHES HOT.

[Trillidotia]

Smith gives guidance how to tell if his own book is "true". Boy, if that isn't circular.

"If you really, really want it to be true and keep praying over and over about it, eventually you'll convince yourself that it is."

If you pray with "real intent", of course you'll get only the answer you want. If the answer's "no", it must not be from the HG? Come on...

And it's "study", not "study it out", "hidden" not "hid up". Just because Smith was a yokel, don't copy his poor grammar.

[cuteddu07]

Real intent means you truly want to know the answer, true or false. "Mormons" ask you to study, do research, and then pray for confirmation. If we were really after "convincing" through conventional bible bashing methods, we wouldn't send 19 and 20 year old kids to convince people. We would send scholars. The scope is to find people that are looking for the truth, and tell them to ask God. How anyone can say that is not of God is completely against the teachings of Christ himself.

[Trillidotia]

I'd as soon pray to see if Ron Hubbard's "Dianetics" is true. It, like the BofM, is laughable. I did ask God, btw, if the BoM is what it claims to be. The response was instantaneous: laughter! God loves a good joke.

And it came to pass, behold, and lo! that the book was ridiculous, not withstanding the horrible attempts at high court 15th cent. English, which Smith failed miserably to reproduce. The real test is in trying to read aloud from it without cracking a smile or laughing.

[cuteddu07]

"I did ask God, btw, if the BoM is what it claims to be. The response was instantaneous: laughter! God loves a good joke."

Now that is funny! By your logic you got the answer you wanted. Are you going to provide a viable argument? Or is it same to assume that are are just going to regurgitate the same old rhetoric that is evident from those who are not informed?

[Trillidotia]

And what happens if the answer you get is a resounding "NO"? You keep praying until you get the answer you want? That's pretty much what the mishies said (snort), because a negative must be from the devil. If you're so guillible that you can't figure out that it's a piece of crap at first glance, you deserve to let a cult get hold of you.

[cuteddu07]

This is becoming comical. Now we have allegations of two things. First you said you prayed with real intent. Certainly questionable. 2nd that the missionaries actually said that. Seeing that I was a missionary I know what the teachings are of our faith. What you said they said would not be doctrine.

Have a nice day

[Trillidotia]

Your arrogance is astouding, yet typical. And just why would that be "questionable"? Only Mormons know the true order of prayer? Pay Lay Ale, baby, with a chaser! But you probably went to a temple after that was removed, along with the throat slashings... But you aren't allowed to talk about that. It's sacred, but not secret! (guffaw)

Those 2 boys weren't quite the brighest bulbs on the tree, but I've heard the "if "no", not from God" response about this from other LDS's, doctrine or not.

[cuteddu07]

Your ignorance is unparalleled. I'm quite aware of what happens in the temple...but you obviously are not. We can discuss whatever you would like, however I have noticed we have gotten off the topic of prayer. (We can talk about the temple later) You have yet to make a solid argument against it. Answer me this, If I have received a yes, and you a no, then who is right?

[Trillidotia]

Did you promise to slit open your own throat, chest & belly if you revealed the handshakes and other secret regalia of the temple? Do you really believe you need to perform secret handshakes to get into the CK? Or was your first experience before 1990?

There's no physical evidence to prove Smith's claims, which are in fact ridiculous. There is copious evidence to indicate that Smith was a womanizing con man, perpetrating a hoax. So, I'm right. Linguists & historians have disproved the BoM.

[cuteddu07]

"There is copious evidence to indicate that Smith was a womanizing con man, perpetrating a hoax." -Everything ever stated on this point was from dubious sources, and you know that!

"So, I'm right. Linguists & historians have disproved the BoM."

How are you right? You've made allegations that linguists and historians have disproved the Book of Mormon. You have failed to mention any of the evidences. Mostly because you don't want to hear them. Have you conceded on the prayer piece?

[cuteddu07]

Symbolism is lost to you, isn't it? Have you done any research on the ancient temple? Anything on the temple scroll found in the dead sea scrolls? The Joseph Smith allegations, are just that....allegations. Once you have some proof (which people have been trying for over 150 years to find) let me know. Otherwise come up with something concrete. Why is it, do you think, that Mormons don't have hundred of slanderous videos about other religions?

[Trillidotia]

What temple scroll? Have you ever been to a synagogue? I have. Nothing like LDS ward meetings.

Jewish temple existed for two main purposes: offering of prayers by the unworthy (all were - different from LDS concept of only-the-worthy) and animal sacrifice. No secret mumbo-jumbo and Masonic derivations.

I've seen BYU TV; they run down Christianity an awful lot. I've never heard Mormonism even discussed in churches, although I don't attend fire&brimstone ones like Fred Phelps' (shudder).

[cuteddu07]

Temple Scroll...Dead Sea Scrolls....That is what I am talking about. Not true about everyone could enter the ancient temple. Simply not true. Yes I have been in a synagogue. Don't care if it's like a ward meeting...They lost the truth over 2000 years ago. They stopped making sacrifices...and yet that was only suppose to happen if the Messiah came. Hmmm.

[Trillidotia]

You're making it up as you go along. Pathetic. "Temple Scrolls" my ass. Sorry, no support of secrecy, passwords, blood oaths, blood atonement in Dead Sea Scrolls or Nag Hammadi. Jews laugh at the Mormon idea of calling non-mos "gentiles" and acting like they have something in common with Judaism. The Nephites & Jaredites didn't practice Judaic ways in the BoM. No obsession with cleanliness rituals, etc. that were so important. Why is that? Smith slipped up, again.

[cuteddu07]

Yes sacred, not secret. Did Jesus share everything he shared with the apostles with everyone?  No....Sacred, not secret.

[Trillidotia]

Although he told them things he may not have shared with the general populace (we don't know; not everything he said and did is in the Bible, nor is it a historical record), there's nothing to suggest that they were not to tell anyone else what he told them. That's silly. So are the costumes, fig leaf aprons, baker's hats, treehouse-club handshakes, all of it is silly. Silly and secret, not sacred or found in Christianity or Judaism. My Jewish friends see no similarities.

[cuteddu07]

"there's nothing to suggest that they were not to tell anyone else what he told them."

Look up the Nag Hammadi. Maybe it's not so silly.

Have your Jewish friends ever been to a temple? Oh wait, it was destroyed 2000 years ago. Is everything about the temple contained in the Bible....no. There are a lot of similarities. But I guess if your eyes are closed, it would be tough to see them.

Yes I have been through the temple. And no I am not discussing my pearls with swine.

[Trillidotia]

The Nag Hammadi, or gnostic gospels, are not accepted as authentic scripture. They make some interesting reading, but they should not be used to try to buttress arguements. They are not solid sources, nor is the thoughroughly debunked Book of Abraham, aka common funeral scroll.

[avenger19992003]

Very Powerful! Great debate material.