OKC Accelerate TAXES! Not This MAPS 3

[pest3955]

cheers to MAPS 3! this video is hilarious.

[RefutingStupidity]

"...who do you think pays that?" - davidglover

You tell me; you are the one who authored the video and, thus, are responsible for accounting for each variable that might exist within your calculations. You seem to be making an attempt to imply that, since citizens frequent local businesses, they are inherently the ones paying the tax. This begs the question of how far we are to factor the infinite regress of responsibility. Do not the businesses pay the citizens who pay the taxes?

[possumpopper89]

Blaze new trails on public transportation that no one will use! I am all for building our city into something greater, I disagree with most of the pet projects in this particular plan. I do not see these ideas truly helping build up any new business. Part of our charm is our old fashioned look and we want to put in a tram system which is extremely expensive and will take us to places no one wants to go or can walk with less hassle.

[davidglover]

777 million 550,000 OKC citizens - 30% of tax paid by out of city residents = $1000 average for per OKC citizen. Chamber, OKC budget director, OKC economist agree, no amount of information can change your mind.

[RefutingStupidity]

"no amount of information can change your mind."

Please do not attempt to tell me what can or will change my mind. I challenged you to reinforce your satirical assertions. Your inability or unwillingness to demonstrate your claims will not be concealed by simply declaring that I cannot be persuaded. Indeed, I will accept the numbers you have given when (or IF) you are capable of supporting them.

[davidglover]

All parties agree, the math is above, all the numbers come from the city and I have sent you the actually email, beyond that I guess you can not do middle school math. There are no claims only hard numbers that everyone involved agrees with except you. I am unable to understand what you mean by support? Do the math read the email from the city get a friend to help you with the math and the words

[RefutingStupidity]

Let us suppose we are partners in business who plan to develop 100 new residential homes in Oklahoma City. Each one of these homes will exceed 1,750 square feet and will sell for about $90 per square foot.

Statistically, about a quarter of a house's market value is in material costs. So, to estimate the cost of materials per square foot, we will factor 25% of $90, which equates to $22.50. At a minimum of 1,750 square feet, we will be required to spend $39,375 on materials per house.

[RefutingStupidity]

Since we are planning to build 100 houses within Oklahoma City and each house will encompass at least 1,750 square feet, we can utilize our total of $39,375 and multiply it by 100 to estimate our cost of materials to develop our residential district. Our computation comes out to $3,937,500 we will spend on materials to construct these dwellings.

Let us suppose we purchase our materials within Oklahoma City limits. If MAPS 3 is passed, one cent per every dollar will be spent for the program.

[RefutingStupidity]

So, with this in consideration, we can calculate that we will have contributed $39,375 towards MAPS 3 by purchasing materials for our development project.

These numbers represent hardly anything that could be considered a fraction of what businesses in Oklahoma City spend to keep their doors open and operations running throughout the year. This is a perfect example of a variable the just might distort your numbers you seem incapable of supporting.

[wevetra13]

@RefutingStupidity Why are you so worried about the numbers or figures for MAPS when you live in Midwest City? The tax won't apply to people there....Oh. Wait. I see. I get to foot the bill while people in other municipalities get to enjoy the results. Do me a favor...if this passes, be sure and shop in the OKC limits so you can help support these little projects. Or better yet, just stay on the base.....

[RefutingStupidity]

I live in Oklahoma City, slightly northeast of Tinker AFB and about a quarter mile outside of Midwest City. Because of the OKC Metro's ambiguous layout, I often cite Midwest City as my municipality for sake of clarity.

However, my home of record is of no relevance to any aspect of discussion. Whether or not I live in Oklahoma City, I will protest unsupported propaganda and falsehoods. I have objections to both sides of this debate; this thread is a manifestation of one of them.

[OkieCarpenter]

Stupidity,

While you argue over split hairs, the elite is playing us all for fools. This month's Sales Tax form had a new box on it that had never been there before, for an Oklahoma County sales tax.

Right after the MAPS III election, look for a new campaign for the new 1 cent OKC county sales tax to pay for the new jail that we have to fund.

That fact alone, that we must pay for a new jail ought to be reason enough to kill this MAPS III tax at the voting booth.

[RefutingStupidity]

"While you argue over split hairs..." - OkieCarpenter

Questioning faulty calculations, which are the basis of an individual's argument, is not debating over "split hairs". Indeed, one typically utilizes statistics to reinforce his arguments and convey with it a sense of credibility. When the calculations used to corroborate a stance are deemed questionable, the matter becomes a legitimate target of contention.

[RefutingStupidity]

"This month's Sales Tax form had a new box on it that had never been there before, for an Oklahoma County sales tax." - OkieCarpenter

Please demonstrate how this statement pertains to MAPS III and I will gladly consider it as a subject for dispute.

[RefutingStupidity]

"Right after the MAPS III election, look for a new campaign..." - OkieCarpenter

I recommend you cast your ballot in a way that best represents your stance on the issue at hand, which for MAPS III, has no relevance to this separate issue you are advancing. If you choose to vote "no" tomorrow, I embrace your right to do so. However, I suggest you vote on the items that are addressed in THIS ballot - not issues you suspect will arise extraneous to this decision.

[RefutingStupidity]

"That fact alone, that we must pay for a new jail ought to be reason enough to kill this MAPS III tax at the voting booth." - OkieCarpenter

Negative! You ought to reject a proposal on its own merits. If, or when, a vote to publicly finance a new jail manifests in our future, you may vote according to your position on the issue. However, such a ballot is an entirely different affair and deserves its own consideration from the people. Our current subject at hand is MAPS III.

[RefutingStupidity]

"Stupidity" - OkieCarpenter

My user name is "RefutingStupidity", which represents my approach when discussing issues of controversy. From this point on, I request you address me as "RefutingStupidity", without distortion.

I have refrained from personal antics; I have focused my dissertation to rebutting your argument - not you. I expect you to afford me the same courtesy from this point forward.

[RefutingStupidity]

Which aspect of these figures accounts for commercial sales tax? Would that variable not distort the final calculations just a bit?

[RefutingStupidity]

I requested you focus your efforts to disclose all variables you used to compile the figures you depicted in your last video. Rather than producing satirical videos that lack insight, why do you not upload videos that reinforce the claims you have made in your previous work?

[davidglover]

I sent you an email detailing the information it is from the City's own project coordinator.

[RefutingStupidity]

Did you completely disregard the response I sent privately via YouTube's messaging feature?

Seemingly, you want me to accept your figures solely because they were calculated by Oklahoma City's project coordinator. This stance is fallacious because it is an appeal to authority and fails to address my point of contention. By your reasoning, weapons of mass destruction would be found in Iraq because high ranking officials in intelligence said they existed in Iraq.

[RefutingStupidity]

When challenged to support a figure, you would best serve your position by precisely demonstrating your methodology that led to your computations. If your viewing audience can bear witness to a thorough calculation that accounts for all variables, they might be willing to accept your conclusion.

However, you seem fixed on copying and pasting the same email you received from Mr. Anderson as if I should welcome a potentially flawed calculation purely because of his position.

[davidglover]

YES for Maps say they will raise 777 million from sales tax, who do you think pays that? How many citizens in OKC? What percentage of tax is paid by non citizens? I have provided all those numbers from multiple reputable sources. You may ignore or disagree, but you offer no alternative. If you think you have better information - please share it.

[RefutingStupidity]

"I have provided all those numbers from multiple reputable sources." - davidglover

You have furnished a copy and paste of what you allege to be an email from Mr. Anderson, a SINGLE source. Furthermore, without independent access to the electronic correspondence between you and "Mr. Anderson", I have no way of verifying its authenticity. You have NOT provided "multiple reputable sources", nor have you demonstrated regard for all variables in your calculation.

[RefutingStupidity]

"You may ignore or disagree, but you offer no alternative." - davidglover

1. What would I ignore?

2. Being skeptical because you have failed to meet a burden of proof does not imply that I am in disagreement. I am simply requesting you elaborate and demonstrate how you came to your final figures.

3. I have no burden to even offer an alternative. In your video, you satirically make a positive claim. Hence, YOU are charged with supporting the position and dismissing all possible alternatives.