@mQtek not to mention 2 or 3 genetic defects most common in the appalachians. (inbreeding, you know...) so, again, I'll have to decline your generous offer.
@jef108 No-one ever claims that Science is benevolent. Benevolence is just a buzz word for people to make themselves feel fuzzy inside, Science doesn't create these things no, nature did, Science did allow for the means of weapons, but it also accounts for shelter, vaccinations, improved farming methods, the internet, your chair and music and pretty much everything you take for granted, There is no logical gateway from being interested in Science to then going out and blowing up someone.
@TheAsymmetrical i agree, the same thing goes for religion...it all depends on who, what, where and why. Religion has inspired (and still does) a lot of good. But just like with science, the balance is probably 50/50. Just so there is an equal amount of "up" as there is "down", day as there is night, and good as there is bad. (my statement about science being benevolent was about a few (less bright) atheists who use "benevolence/malevolence" as ammunition against religion)
@TheAsymmetrical btw. "nature" is just a word to describe the mystery of existence used by people who have a problem with the connotation of "authority" in the word "god". Since "nature" has created consciousness, nature must bé conscious. So, why not call IT God?
@TheAsymmetrical "There is no logical gateway from being interested in Science to then going out and blowing up someone."...but there is definitely a logical gateway between creating an atomic bomb that can ONLY be used to kill millions of people, and the scientist who made it being called "evil"...same thing for a lot of other weapons that are only that: weapons to injure or kill other human beings.
@TheAsymmetrical just meaning to say with all my babble that science as well as religion are both vulnarable to abuse by lunatics. But that says nothing about the nature of science ór religion. It just says something about the nature of man. Imo. religion and science are nót contradictory at all, but youtube is hardly the place for thát conversation, is it? Cheers, dude.
@chrisose nazi's were mostly catholic, supported fully by the vatican and the church. god wouldn't be offended, and nobody is offended by WWII films and actors. this is just chirpin theists
@StigmatiX Whats The point Of A Caps Button If You Don't Use It? I Love My Caps Button And Until Someone Breaks Into My house And Steals It I Will Capitalize On The Opportunity To Capitalize Every Single Word I Type. I Also Gives Me A Sense That I Am Different And What I Say Has A Greater Value Over Those Non-Capitalizing Typers Who Chose Not To Take Advantage Of This Gift From Keyboardian The God Of ModernText Typing.
Athiests are just left brained people. Usually academically intelligent because that's what's thaught in schools. They will always be athiests if they change beause there nto capable of 'getting' the part of a soul or a higher soul, whereas a right brained person would be more connected to that. For what it's worth i do think organised religion is outdated, but spirtuality will only get stronger in my opinion. There are now right brained scientists, rupert sheldrake for example.
@ChainsawVsGod that's not fair. Judge people by their actions, not their beliefs. There are good atheists out there, there are bad ones. There are good Christians out there, there are bad ones. Not to long ago it was absurd to be an athiest. Some time down the road things will change again. As long as you are a good person, your beliefs shouldn't matter
@jmn1228 Judge USA for killing innocent people, and not its citizen?
How about NO? Tax paying dollars are spend to murder innocent.
10% of Christian income technically are spent on churches, what the churches did good or bad its follower SURE as heck is accountable. Do not hide behind your cult or gang for the damage done on your behalf to the civilization.
@garytcw nope sorry. the roman catholic church for example has done plenty of fucked up shit in the past. but that sure as hell is not a reflection on the average catholic who does their duty to the church and lives their life promoting charity and kindness. those are good people and deserve to be judged as good people. and the actions of the U.S. government are not a reflection on the millions of citizens that have been appaled by them and the fact that their tax dollars are spent in such a way
@jmn1228 Have you ever heard the axiom of "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"?
Catholics don't rebel when the church deliberate hides pedophiles, which allows the church to continue their evil ways. Guess what? It does fall on the shoulders of "good" catholics because they turned a blind eye to evil.
And since the citizens of the US vote for the government that does fucked up shit, it's FAIR to blame the citizens for the actions of the government.
@sleazybtd It might be going a bit too far to blame the citizens for the actions of their government. Should the meek be punished for the actions of the powerful? The best we can do is speak up about it. Most of us can't really do anything about the Catholic church save perhaps exactly what you are doing right now. If you ARE Catholic and openly decry the evils that church commits, then that's all anyone can ask. Same for the Islam, the Protestant, the Buddhists, and etc.
@seleroan In the case of the US, the citizens are the ones who vote for their government. If people in the US will vote for someone who is openly advocating war, and the war occurs, who started the war, the government or the people who voted for the government? In a democracy, the blame or accolades falls squarely on the voting citizens.
@seleroan [The best we can do is speak up about it]
I see many catholics DEFEND the church when the subject of pedophile priests come up. Or at the very least refuse to discuss it, which is passive approval.
Talking about it isn't the best you can do. You can demand action as a group. Or hit them in the wallet. Instead of putting money in the collection basket, leave a note saying that no more money will be given until the pedophile situation is resolved, and pass the word.
@sleazybtd Yes and americans DO hit them in the wallet. most catholics i know do not go to church in protest and its a huge reason why catholic churches and especially catholic schools have been closing left and right. Its also the reason that there was no huge celebration over here for an american becoming cardinal. they are making a difference. and you are right about you being responsible if you vote for an open warmonger but what if u voted 4 some1 that promoted peace and lied? not our fault
@jmn1228 Do your catholic compatriots let the church know the reason for the lack of attendance? If you don't send letters explaining your protest, they'll just assume that you lost faith and write you off and nothing will change.
As for voting for a lying warmonger. It's still our fault. There is another branch of government that we vote for. It's highly unlikely for everyone in the government to push for a war when the populace is entirely against it.
@seleroan If catholics are as angry about the pedophile priest situation as you claim, then this tactic will get results very quickly. But I'm going to make a prediction here. Not enough catholics will take up the cause to make a difference. The reason is because catholics are so brainwashed, that they actually believe the church has the power to ban them from heaven, so like the docile sheep that they are, they will choose to do nothing.
@jmn1228 "don't judge others for not believing what you believe." How many fucking times are people going to say this before they figure out it's crap. What the hell do you think our justice system does?
@jef108 Of course it is your opinion and as a tolerant person I respect it. I just had to ask sincerely if you were being ironic as I didn't understand how you could seriously state that you didn't believe in atheists much like some people don't believe in U.F.O.'s or something. Your opinion is very strange to me though. I am an atheist and have no reason to lie to myself. In fact I have always sort of envied people of faith for various reasons, but I just don't believe.
@topsy677 to me believing is not really the point. It's about "seeing", about being awake to a certain kind of awareness. Also, I think that religion as such is man-made. It is a man-made response to contact with transcendence. It kind of puts religion in its place. We should respect it, but also not take it too seriously as to giving it the chance to fuck up the world, as it has done many times in history. So religion is manmade. But Transcendence IS real. Maybe just not to you yet.:)
@timelesskoontah I (like tens of millions) don't believe in God. Atheism is a natural part of human evolution.
Most people lose their God delusions by the time they learn to tie their shoes. Others take longer. It is quite likely that you will laugh at what you're writing today in a few more years (or sooner?).
There is no law to stop you from believing in fairy tales. There is also no law to make me go back to the nonsense I once bought into. Is that OK with you? Thanks.
@jef108 "Only a few people are passionate enough to "fight" for their (mis-)beliefs."
I don't see that. What I see is a handful of fanatics at the head of religious organizations gleaning power and money and prodding the moderates. Given enough power and money, convincing the moderates to fight becomes easy.
How many American Christians would you say are armed, half-delusional, and ready to kill for Jesus?
Science & its method of investigation are derived from Greek philosophy People who went into nature to find explanations for things like diseases, earthquakes etc instead of attributing them to the gods Christianity & Islam nearly destroyed science because of their closeminded religious persecution without the enlightenment science like we know would not exist Look up Hippocrates, Herodotus etc you might actually learn something instead of reading 'holy' books.
You can believe anything, you can believe the earth is flat or that aliens visit us. It is a fact that ancient Greek philosophy is the basis for modern science, read a good book on the history of the scientific process or science (now that I think of it Wikipedia is also suitable). I guarantee you it'll prove what I said, or you can ignore what I said and keep believing in your claim which doesn't have any evidence to support itself.
@RogierV2 You mean 'The Scientific Method'. Even after I give you evidence of the contribution religious scholars have given to modern science, you will still antagonize a response that omitts religion. I suggest you read the wiki article from where I just copied this -Several scientific methods thus emerged from the medieval Muslim world by the early 11th century, all of which emphasized experimentation as well as quantification to varying degrees. Ibn al-Haytham (Alhazen), a pioneer of scien..
I never said theologians or religious scholars never contributed to science. You stated they invented science, which is false. We know Hippocrates was the first to practise medicine and many other sciences have ancient Greek roots. It is indeed true that Arabs and later Europeans worked on the scientific method. But the foundation is and will always be what those ancient philosophers made century ago.
@RogierV2 I understand what you are saying. I disagree. Ancient philophers layed no foundations, they were taking arm-chair shots in the dark, save a few. If I were to say where the foundations upon which rests 'modern science' originated from based upon specific significant inventions and discoveries (that are now the bedrock of science) you still won't accept it.
You do understand that before these philosophers going into nature to find explanations for everyday phenomena was unheard off Arab Scientists translated ancient Greek texts to use for their experiments There's a reason why modern science uses Latin & Greek The enlightenment is Europe was based on Roman and Greek ideas about Science, the world and philosophy Saying they didn't lay a basis is like saying ancient Athens didn't lay the basis for democracy
@preciousmetalz "arm-chair shots in the dark"?... really? Pythagorus, Euclid, Aristotle, Aristophanes, Heron... I'll stop listing them because they are far too numerous. Look it up and stop being silly.
personally the concept of an eternity is mind boggling and hellish. i don't want to be knocking about for all time. i want to die (eventually), i want to stop. eternity is a fucking long time
I would have responded by saying "what you want, or like, or prefer, or what makes you comfortable has nothing to do with whats real". I think that makes people pretty uncomfortable but I would rather they were uncomfortable and dealing with reality than comfortable and delusional.
The reason Ricky is being aggressive in this scene is to do with the characters relationship! Andy, Ricky's character is generally aggressive towards Maggie because she's irritatingly dim. It happens with their conversations about anything not just Christianity!
WHY would believing in a god end up with the story of haven and hell? why can't we just believe a god created the universe, but he did not give it any PURPOSE.. a totally purposeless existence. WHY NOT? why should there be any purpose for existence? a man can live without any cosmic/divine purpose and only take care of himself and the woman he loves and no one and nothing else. why would it be "bad", or "meaningless" or even "impossible"? in fact, there is no cosmic/divine purpose or morality.
@nake89 you totally misunderstood me... my point is why the belief in god ended up with creating a man made "purpose" for existence? i just want to know why the original people didn't just believe in their god without giving any purpose to his creations? what caused them to mix god and the purpose of existence? do u understand now? i'm not here to assert the existence of any god... that's for religious people to do...
Have anyone heard about Ferhianeb? No, then let me explain it is since long a god that created a sea for himself he made it by expanding a singularity in 3 directions and gave it a velocity which he called the fourth vector. He then let the sea boil in turmoil and left it noone has believed in him ever but we have the proof of him, and that's big bang, space and time.
@jjoneil73 Taken for true and being on youtube there's a good chance you're a bot which would make for an interesting conversation. Either that or you wake up very surprised every morning. Facing reality involves trying (but mostly failing) to realize how abstractions limits ones understanding of reality which in term leads to new and hopefully better abstractions. It is not facing reality to superimpose ones abstractions as reality, and to claim understanding the reality through the tangible.
@Avelorn84 You assume a lot and thats your first error and secondly, it would be most helpful if you were to speak plain English and refrain from "internet jargon" as one is not a "bot" or either wakes up every morning surprised...
I, and I'm sure some other atheists, would like to have a wonderful place to reunite with our departed loved ones; we just don't believe it. We have our reasons. If you insist on replying, I MIGHT respond, but I don't need evangelizing. I've had plenty of that. I know what the majority of Christians believe. I'm just stating my opinion.
@MsLilithJS Maybe one day we'll figure out how to download our personalities to a vast computer which contains an ideal world. And only the true Atheists will be allowed on it. How ironic would that be?
@Oceanus57 It would be ironic but let's face it if that did happen then everyone would be allowed to upload their personalities to it and most people who are religious probably wouldn't anyway.
@Oceanus57 if we figure out how to "download personalities onto a computer", by which you imply transferring consciousness onto manufactured wiring, we would have no need to live in a virtual world. Just produce artificial eyes, and other senses - and you are good to go. You are now a "greek god".
just saying, your proposition is half-assed. Any kind of science that can transfer consciousness from carbon-based life to non-carbon-based computer can figure out a way to make it a whole body.
@Valholm Well, it's only half-assed if you want to carry on living in the real world. If you'd like to live in an idealised, perfect world you could build that for yourself too. Given that as a result of gaming and the internet, lots of people prefer to try and live in a virtual world of their own invention, I don't see what's half-assed about building a virtual world that's not full of misery and suffering and food-chains where everything preys on everything else, like this one is.
@Oceanus57 well, figuring a way to last our consciousness indefinitely does not mean the end of struggle for survival. The Universe itself is mortal, as assumed by modern science. If everyone goes into that virtual world of yours, with no intention ever to return, than there will be no one left to protect it in the actual world, and find a way to break the limits of our Universe, so to speak. (not implying it is possible) So one day, the virtual world will die with all the people inside it.
@Oceanus57 if you want to exchange a doomed, but perfect "non-humane" world with a chance of finding "final answer to survival", for a doomed, but perfect "humane" world without a chance of finding "final answer to survival" - go right ahead. I mean it's up to you.
@Oceanus57 Oh my, I'd love that. Moment you die, your memories and personality are transferred to a massive computer. Sweet! I mean I'd still be dead, and cease to be, but a part of me would exist somehow. Which appeals to me greatly.
@Blairtim69 I don't know if you meant to reply to me or not. I was referring to departed loved ones, as in those who are already dead. I know how get in touch with those still alive.
It's rather softcore scenario. In real life, at least in Poland, discussions about gods and other stuff like this are much, much more intense experience and you certainly have to refute much more difficult arguments than fluffy beliefs that the girl from the clip has. Most people are pretty pis**d off when you even mention that someone on the other side of the world doubts existence of god they believe in and you have to answer every little question if you want them to leave you alone peacefully
I don't understand... she's nice, and not hateful, stupid or ignorant. Why do some atheists treat people like her as the worst christian they've ever encountered? You want to see some stupid christians? watch the atheist experience and you won't even care about people like her..
And we think her clinging to her denial the way she does is probably, deep down, making her very sad. Most schemes of denial are toxic, and discarding a bad scheme of lies you tell yourself and facing up to the truth is usually an empowering and enriching experience.
@Oceanus57 This does not make any sense. Why would it make her sad to believe in an afterlife? Then you presume that everyone intuitively knows the truth about Gods existence which sounds like a very religious notion to me.
@Oceanus57 and btw: someone who REALLY loves another person, does not go around popping that person's balloon, whatever color it has. A truly loving, mature human being (whatéver he believes) leaves other people alone with whatever makes them happy. Nobody knows what this life is all about. Not even Einstein. It is not because you give something a name and put it in a box that it suddenly is no longer a miracle. Life is a mystery, and it will always remain a mystery. Live and let Live. Cheers!
@jef108 I think the problem a lot of atheists have is that they would like to be told if someone had lied to them, or that they were wrong, and expect others to desire the same courtesy. They might also question whether deluding yourself can ever truly make you happy. If you want to live in a dream world where everything's mysterious and there are no answers, then that's up to you, but don't be surprised if the people around you try to wake you up from time to time...
@jef108 A delusion is defined as a false opinion held despite overwhelming evidence. There is no evidence for god, otherwise atheists would agree god exists. Theirs is merely one of few sensible viewpoints on the matter.
@jef108 I have, continually, I'm quite obsessed with it. But the fact that I'm able to check my fine self out doesn't require the existence of god... At best all you can say is the existence of the universe could suggest a god.
@Seiryuu270 ...require? No, proves:) The existence of the universe, your own existence, the existence of a mosquito sitting on elephantdung in Namibia, a fabulous sunset in San Diego, me farting after a great meal...same thing. God is Alive as Reality. What else should we call this Absolute Mystery of existence? Nature? And what does thát explain?
@jef108 You could call it what it is at base mechanic levels, composites, abstract ideas. Calling it God explains no more than does any of those. Though to be quite honest, I fear we don't actually differ in opinion too strongly on the nature of God so... I'll leave this one!
@jef108 Wait you saw him as balloon popping? I saw them as having a frank discussion, one which she started, and him stating his lack of beliefs and answering her questions. The only thing that could be construed as balloon popping would be that look he gives at the end. And she's not even looking at him, so how would that affect her. Was he supposed to lie to her and go along with whatever she had to say even though it goes against his own judgment. This conversation seemed pleasant to me
@Jonstern1983 i wasn't talking about ricky really...I agree with you about this scene: a conversation between "friends"...I was talking about "most other" atheists, who think that théir truth is THE truth, while they have no clue, just like the rest of us :)..of course that goes for a lot of religious people as well...we seem to have alot of trouble leaving eachother alone.
@jef108 I see what you mean, but you have to agree that the only real truth is the one that is completely objective. That doesn't necessarily preclude god(s), but it does necessarily include all of the scientific discoveries, and does preclude biblical literalism.
@Jonstern1983"the only real truth is the one that is completely objective" How can you be so sure about that?
imo the objective truth is necessarily limited to the superficial, the material, when there is so much more to human existence than that. It seems to me that the truth(s) that really matter are indeed rather subjective. Love, Health, Religion (yes), Joy, etc. The objective truths deal with circumstances, the setting, and are also subject to constant change. Objective? I don't know...
@Jonstern1983 ...but let's not even consider biblical literalism, that's one of the many forms of madness that humanity is capable of :) this does not mean, however, that religion in itself is wrong, or even not True. It is as essential to human nature as eating and drinking. It is our way of dealing with the miraculous mystery that life and consciousness is. It is not because science investigates and learns to control certain aspects of "It" that suddenly "It" is no longer a Miracle..
@Jonstern1983 I also think that for an Objective truth to be really objective (and really true:)) it has to be understood, and accepted by everyone...but since obviously not everyone is at the same point in (their) evolution, that could prove to be a problem... etc, etc...as long as we stay polite with eachother, right? :)
@jef108 That's just flat out wrong. Objective truth, by its very definition is something that is true with the absence of the mind. Evolution occurs, and it occurred prior to sentience or discovery. The planets in our solar system revolve around the sun, and have done so for billions of years. I'm not saying religion is wrong, I'm saying it's not necessarily right. There could be something beyond what we can determine, but just because it could be doesn't mean it is.
@Jonstern1983 I beg to differ:) The thing is, when the mind is absent, nothing exists. We human beings cognise and make sense out of an in essence incomprehensable reality by means of the mind. Individually as well as collective. In the absense of the mind there is nothing, no objective truth. When the mind dies, the universe dies. The material world has no existence outside of the mind. The whole universe is nothing more than an tiny electrical spark in the brain (including the brain itself ;)
@Jonstern1983 And "GOD" is what causes the "hallucination", He –IT– IS the hallucination...un-knowable to the mind, and thus impossible to prove objectively, by science - only the 'subject' can get an intuitive glimps of IT. And thát is/causes Trúe Religion. But, in the end, since we're all in the same boat obviously, it's all about unity, love, understanding, tollerance, etc...And we certainly don't have to be a religious person to live like thát, do we? Ah, sweet dreams...
@jef108 No offense, but that sounds like true solipsism, and if that is the case then nothing actually matters. It also implies that every shred of evidence is non-existent, and I cannot accept that. Not because it's too troubling, but because it's too worthless.
@Jonstern1983 I'd say éverything matters, because everything is one and the same, what you see is what you are, what you do to another, you do to yourself. It would be worthless if it were just conceptual. And that danger does exist, ofcourse. There is always room for misunderstanding and abuse. That's the trouble with organised religion: misunderstanding and abuse. And that goes for science as well: every murder with a weapon ever is made possible by science, from the A-bomb to a potato knife..
@Jonstern1983 and I wouldn't say that every shred of evidence is non-existent. It's just that science should never be a filosofy, it should always remain truly free investigation, without being reductionist. Personally I'm sure that sooner or later science and religion will meet eachother halfway, they will merge. Because let's face it: all of this IS a mystery, no matter how many labels we put on it. And the truly free scientific mind on the other hand will always be a messenger of "True God".
@Oceanus57 Thing is, she wouldn't know if it's actually truth she is facing up to. She may have doubts about atheism, and then it can be argued that she's living in denial that there is a God. I honestly don't buy into the atheist's argument that they are much happier. I think both christians and atheist have similar measures of unhappiness. The diference is that christians have hope in something greater and atheists have contentment in something less.
@NikkiAndrogynous Thing is, atheists generally -don't- treat Christians like her as the worst ever. They only try to explain why their beliefs, though comforting, aren't right. (denial of the truth, to instead believe in something that makes you feel good is not a good thing. It's called living in your own fantasy world, or living in denial.) It's the christians you hear on the atheist experience, that atheists treat as the worst christians ever.
@NikkiAndrogynous Its because they are nice. Its hard to do anything bar smile and nod when they talk about religion, because you don't want to upset them.
@NikkiAndrogynous You completely missed the point. This clip did not have Gervais taking what she said as a personal insult. He was simply bewildered by her stupidity and naivety. Essentially "I would rather think" has no bearing on reality, and the fact that her (character obviously) uses that as a point of reasoning is scary and causes quite a few problems in the world. There now you are caught up, enjoy.
@lundymaphone "Bewildered by her stupidity and naivety"...this is the biggest reason why I can't stand atheists. So much blatant self-centeredness and know-it-all mindsets. Science has FAR from disproved God. And how would her way of thinking cause problems in the world? If all were atheists, would that really stop murder, rape, adultery, abuse, etc...?
@Indalja ..You cannot prove a negative (ie you can't prove something does not exist). What you can say is there is not enough evidence, nor sufficient logical grounds, to state that a god or other deity exists. On another note why play the genetic fallacy card, I am certainly not a large enough sample to make any sort of judgement on a group as large and diverse as atheists. And of what I said, what was "self-centered" or "know-it-all?" Finally, I made no claim as to atheism effect on crime.
@lundymaphone Initially, I took it as you were saying her way of thinking (Christianity) as a cause of world problems, but re-reading it, I'm assuming you mean her "I would rather think" logic. If so, I apologize. But I see thinking of someone as being stupid as a self-centered attitude. Also, I admit, I shouldn't group all atheists together. It's just mostly what I've seen. And lastly, I disagree; I believe there is ample evidence for the existence of God.
@Indalja You are correct, I was faulting her logic, regardless of the outcome her character came too (some sort of Abrahamic-agnostic thing). As far as the self-centered idea. I fail to see how stating a potential fact as having anything to do with me at all. I see being self-centered as focusing on ones self as the focal point of ideas/conversations where it is inappropriate to believe so. As such your definition seems to be different then mine, so we have no real common ground for discussion.
@Indalja Also I think you would agree that the "existence of god/evidence for" conversation simply cannot take place with this format (youtube, etc). I will point out my argument was logically sound, even if you believe a premise was incorrect. As such I am going to not touch the issue of the existence for god. But this conversation seems to have run its course, nice talk, cheers.
@lundymaphone I agree, I prefer not to have the arguement of God's existence, but I made the statement in reaction to you labeling the lady as stupid. Naive, I can agree on. She seemed to lack any logical ground for her beliefs. But stupidity should be saved for those who are purposely ignorant or blatantly foolish. She, as most Christians, really believe what they, well, believe. So I stated my position to defend against the label of stupid.
@lundymaphone Also, my self-centered statement was mainly referring, again, to labeling her stupid. Without a qualifying reason to label her as such (e.g., she's being blatantly ignorant), it comes off as selfish. A self-less person would try to see where she's coming from. It just seems arrogant. Anyway, I realize you were just commenting on a character in a show and probably weren't expecting to have this kind of discussion. My fault. Still, nice talking to you. Ciao.
Imagine in 2000 years time, somebodys find a Harry Potter book buried under the soil, they read it, will they think that we were all wizards? lol @religion
she's absolutely lovely. i'm a full blown christian and i couldn't be more proud. i think rosaries (or however u spell it) are pointless and useless and wearing robes and going to church aren't necessary either. religion and faith in general are very personal things that don't need to be expressed through dumb material things :)
if this god character shouted down 2,000 years ago from a mountain - why hasn't he ever reappeared since
whats scarier is how many people "believe" in this bible koran torah shit
however meditation and illumination , enlightenment and consciousness is a separate subject and should not be confused with the god cults which they keep trying to use to defend their insanity
whats interesting is how many nice people these cultists have murdered and enslaved
If you belive in scientific "evidence" then you are a person of faith. Atheists, you are among the most narrow-minded people on this earth. Together with a few religious groups you drain this place of potantial. You take away the potential of human beings by shoving your alleged "truth" down their throats.
Gods only exist for as long as they have their stupid, angry little human animators. Once the animators die off , the gods they once empowered shrivel up and die, and become merely anthropological curiosities.
People in the future will laugh themselves sick when they discover the utter bullshit that the godbotherers of our age spouted. Godbotherers! - the more devout you are, the more ridiculous you become.
Um people, more specifically male people from across a fairly large span in history. If you really want to know all you have to do is type 'who wrote the bible' in the the magic google box, and it will ask the spirits of the internet to give you the answer. Caution reading above a 4th grade level is required.
@Berelore There's no author credited, it's written as if it was God because it describes creation and nobody was there apart from him. Obviously he didn't write it himself - he probably employed a ghost writer. The term ghost writer comes from "Holy Ghost". It's pretty obvious when you read the bible - it's got so much practical, realistic advice - how could it not be written by God? You can't explain it.
@Berelore Yeah it's always cheap being a poe - there's literally no way of telling. I've heard creationists come out with weirder stuff than that and be serious. Maybe creationists don't exist, it's just a horde or poes
@Denethorable 'practical, realistic advice' like curing leprosy using blood from a dead bird?
Or more like changing how your cow's offspring will look by showing it a piece of cloth?
Sure sounds like a load of bovine excrement that somebody just made up out of thin air to seem like a superduper smart and magic solution to otherwise insurmountable problems.. speaking of which, can you find the cure for a disease in the bible? just one.. it has to work, but one is a good start!
@GronTheMighty "just one.. it has to work, but one is a good start!" Easy, you already said it: "like curing leprosy using blood from a dead bird?" And before you say it don't work, have you ever tried it? How do you know it doesn't work if you haven't tried any of it?
@Denethorable It has been tried loads in the past, before people questioned the incredibly stupid doctrines it is part of.. something that cannot be emphasized enough even in the present age, because apparently some people don't quite grasp why the scientific approach to making workable solutions be available is the ONLY method we can consistently expect nearly the same results from as we actually get... because.. it.. works! ;)
@Denethorable As you may have figured out by now, i don't honestly care a tidbit about what you or anyone believe to be true, nor do i care to share what i believe to be true. i care about what can be demonstrated to be true, because demonstrations are by definition repeatable and thus verifiable ; of the myriad of religions available for faithful worship, only a few of them adhere to doctrines emanating from texts that have demonstrably non-true statements of fact, one of which being the bible.
@GronTheMighty Well of course it's true, that's why it's called "the gospel". You've probably never heard of the ring of faith - which is how the bible is demonstrably true. God wrote the bible, therefore everything in the bible is true, how do we know? The bible says it is. And if the bible says it is, then it must be - because it was writted by god, how do we know it was written by God? It says so in the bible. The facts are on my side here.
If someone says "Don't you find more comfort in going to heaven? Wouldn't that be better?" I just say well... it won't matter cause.. i'm dead
Shmucko21 2 days ago
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jmn1228 1 week ago
...or elves
ambre15 1 week ago
@mQtek not to mention 2 or 3 genetic defects most common in the appalachians. (inbreeding, you know...) so, again, I'll have to decline your generous offer.
jef108 4 weeks ago
@jef108 hm, i guess i hit the spot.
jef108 4 weeks ago
@jef108 No-one ever claims that Science is benevolent. Benevolence is just a buzz word for people to make themselves feel fuzzy inside, Science doesn't create these things no, nature did, Science did allow for the means of weapons, but it also accounts for shelter, vaccinations, improved farming methods, the internet, your chair and music and pretty much everything you take for granted, There is no logical gateway from being interested in Science to then going out and blowing up someone.
TheAsymmetrical 1 month ago
@TheAsymmetrical i agree, the same thing goes for religion...it all depends on who, what, where and why. Religion has inspired (and still does) a lot of good. But just like with science, the balance is probably 50/50. Just so there is an equal amount of "up" as there is "down", day as there is night, and good as there is bad. (my statement about science being benevolent was about a few (less bright) atheists who use "benevolence/malevolence" as ammunition against religion)
jef108 1 month ago
@TheAsymmetrical btw. "nature" is just a word to describe the mystery of existence used by people who have a problem with the connotation of "authority" in the word "god". Since "nature" has created consciousness, nature must bé conscious. So, why not call IT God?
jef108 1 month ago
@TheAsymmetrical "There is no logical gateway from being interested in Science to then going out and blowing up someone."...but there is definitely a logical gateway between creating an atomic bomb that can ONLY be used to kill millions of people, and the scientist who made it being called "evil"...same thing for a lot of other weapons that are only that: weapons to injure or kill other human beings.
jef108 1 month ago
@TheAsymmetrical just meaning to say with all my babble that science as well as religion are both vulnarable to abuse by lunatics. But that says nothing about the nature of science ór religion. It just says something about the nature of man. Imo. religion and science are nót contradictory at all, but youtube is hardly the place for thát conversation, is it? Cheers, dude.
jef108 1 month ago
I watched the video, and then right before I scrolled to the comments, I said to myself,
"There's gonna be an argument on religion down there."
Voila.
Like I'm physic or something, right?
Rumoki 1 month ago
@Rumoki no just unusualy incredibly bright...since it is the subject of the video...:)
jef108 1 month ago
If there is a god and he does not understand why I am an atheist, then he is not god, and I need not worry of going to hell. - Kal Kaden
mQtek 1 month ago
I want to live forever. My only demand is that I don't have to spend the eternity with religious people. If I have to, kill me. Kill me twice.
dummychaos 1 month ago
I love that in this she is worried about women portraying nuns but not about people portraying Nazis.
Perfect, Thanks Ricky
chrisose 1 month ago 2
@chrisose nazi's were mostly catholic, supported fully by the vatican and the church. god wouldn't be offended, and nobody is offended by WWII films and actors. this is just chirpin theists
dopeasfuckk 1 month ago
Without Death Life Has No Meaning Or Value
qotsaandsoadfan1 1 month ago
@qotsaandsoadfan1 Agreed. But for the love of science, stop capitalizing every word.
StigmatiX 1 month ago
@StigmatiX Whats The point Of A Caps Button If You Don't Use It? I Love My Caps Button And Until Someone Breaks Into My house And Steals It I Will Capitalize On The Opportunity To Capitalize Every Single Word I Type. I Also Gives Me A Sense That I Am Different And What I Say Has A Greater Value Over Those Non-Capitalizing Typers Who Chose Not To Take Advantage Of This Gift From Keyboardian The God Of ModernText Typing.
qotsaandsoadfan1 1 month ago
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Athiests are just left brained people. Usually academically intelligent because that's what's thaught in schools. They will always be athiests if they change beause there nto capable of 'getting' the part of a soul or a higher soul, whereas a right brained person would be more connected to that. For what it's worth i do think organised religion is outdated, but spirtuality will only get stronger in my opinion. There are now right brained scientists, rupert sheldrake for example.
Liam2621 1 month ago
Here's what I believe: commandment 1- Keep thy religion to thyself. Commandment 2- don't judge others for not believing what you believe.
jmn1228 1 month ago 15
@jmn1228 I like the irony in that xD shame no one else gets it. Thumbs of from me dude..
nejtilsvampe 1 month ago
@nejtilsvampe thanks
jmn1228 1 month ago
@jmn1228 and nr 3- don't judge others for believing what you don't. they might be right, after all...never know.
jef108 1 month ago
@jef108 I like things short and simple. Lets just combine that with #2
jmn1228 1 month ago
@jmn1228
It is really hard not to judge someone when they believe in something as absurd as Christianity.
ChainsawVsGod 3 weeks ago
@ChainsawVsGod that's not fair. Judge people by their actions, not their beliefs. There are good atheists out there, there are bad ones. There are good Christians out there, there are bad ones. Not to long ago it was absurd to be an athiest. Some time down the road things will change again. As long as you are a good person, your beliefs shouldn't matter
jmn1228 3 weeks ago
@jmn1228 You may just be the smartest person on youtube I’ve seen in... forever.
awsomosaurus995 2 weeks ago
@awsomosaurus995 youtube standards arent that high, but thanks, lol
jmn1228 2 weeks ago
@jmn1228 Judge USA for killing innocent people, and not its citizen?
How about NO? Tax paying dollars are spend to murder innocent.
10% of Christian income technically are spent on churches, what the churches did good or bad its follower SURE as heck is accountable. Do not hide behind your cult or gang for the damage done on your behalf to the civilization.
garytcw 3 days ago
@garytcw nope sorry. the roman catholic church for example has done plenty of fucked up shit in the past. but that sure as hell is not a reflection on the average catholic who does their duty to the church and lives their life promoting charity and kindness. those are good people and deserve to be judged as good people. and the actions of the U.S. government are not a reflection on the millions of citizens that have been appaled by them and the fact that their tax dollars are spent in such a way
jmn1228 3 days ago
@jmn1228 Have you ever heard the axiom of "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"?
Catholics don't rebel when the church deliberate hides pedophiles, which allows the church to continue their evil ways. Guess what? It does fall on the shoulders of "good" catholics because they turned a blind eye to evil.
And since the citizens of the US vote for the government that does fucked up shit, it's FAIR to blame the citizens for the actions of the government.
sleazybtd 2 days ago
@sleazybtd It might be going a bit too far to blame the citizens for the actions of their government. Should the meek be punished for the actions of the powerful? The best we can do is speak up about it. Most of us can't really do anything about the Catholic church save perhaps exactly what you are doing right now. If you ARE Catholic and openly decry the evils that church commits, then that's all anyone can ask. Same for the Islam, the Protestant, the Buddhists, and etc.
seleroan 2 days ago
@seleroan In the case of the US, the citizens are the ones who vote for their government. If people in the US will vote for someone who is openly advocating war, and the war occurs, who started the war, the government or the people who voted for the government? In a democracy, the blame or accolades falls squarely on the voting citizens.
sleazybtd 2 days ago
@seleroan [The best we can do is speak up about it]
I see many catholics DEFEND the church when the subject of pedophile priests come up. Or at the very least refuse to discuss it, which is passive approval.
Talking about it isn't the best you can do. You can demand action as a group. Or hit them in the wallet. Instead of putting money in the collection basket, leave a note saying that no more money will be given until the pedophile situation is resolved, and pass the word.
sleazybtd 2 days ago
@sleazybtd Yes and americans DO hit them in the wallet. most catholics i know do not go to church in protest and its a huge reason why catholic churches and especially catholic schools have been closing left and right. Its also the reason that there was no huge celebration over here for an american becoming cardinal. they are making a difference. and you are right about you being responsible if you vote for an open warmonger but what if u voted 4 some1 that promoted peace and lied? not our fault
jmn1228 1 day ago
@jmn1228 Do your catholic compatriots let the church know the reason for the lack of attendance? If you don't send letters explaining your protest, they'll just assume that you lost faith and write you off and nothing will change.
As for voting for a lying warmonger. It's still our fault. There is another branch of government that we vote for. It's highly unlikely for everyone in the government to push for a war when the populace is entirely against it.
sleazybtd 1 day ago
@seleroan If catholics are as angry about the pedophile priest situation as you claim, then this tactic will get results very quickly. But I'm going to make a prediction here. Not enough catholics will take up the cause to make a difference. The reason is because catholics are so brainwashed, that they actually believe the church has the power to ban them from heaven, so like the docile sheep that they are, they will choose to do nothing.
I sincerely hope you can prove me wrong.
sleazybtd 2 days ago
@jmn1228
perfect. where do i sign for this ?
kingkonghitme 1 week ago
@kingkonghitme Here:
x________________________x
jmn1228 1 week ago
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@jmn1228 "don't judge others for not believing what you believe." How many fucking times are people going to say this before they figure out it's crap. What the hell do you think our justice system does?
dabomb1357 4 hours ago
@jef108 Of course it is your opinion and as a tolerant person I respect it. I just had to ask sincerely if you were being ironic as I didn't understand how you could seriously state that you didn't believe in atheists much like some people don't believe in U.F.O.'s or something. Your opinion is very strange to me though. I am an atheist and have no reason to lie to myself. In fact I have always sort of envied people of faith for various reasons, but I just don't believe.
topsy677 1 month ago
@topsy677 to me believing is not really the point. It's about "seeing", about being awake to a certain kind of awareness. Also, I think that religion as such is man-made. It is a man-made response to contact with transcendence. It kind of puts religion in its place. We should respect it, but also not take it too seriously as to giving it the chance to fuck up the world, as it has done many times in history. So religion is manmade. But Transcendence IS real. Maybe just not to you yet.:)
jef108 1 month ago
The eye roll at the end says it all.
Kailoa36 1 month ago
Ricky is awesome
N30Nchiken 1 month ago
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@timelesskoontah I (like tens of millions) don't believe in God. Atheism is a natural part of human evolution.
Most people lose their God delusions by the time they learn to tie their shoes. Others take longer. It is quite likely that you will laugh at what you're writing today in a few more years (or sooner?).
There is no law to stop you from believing in fairy tales. There is also no law to make me go back to the nonsense I once bought into. Is that OK with you? Thanks.
SynchroTotal 1 month ago
@jef108 "Only a few people are passionate enough to "fight" for their (mis-)beliefs."
I don't see that. What I see is a handful of fanatics at the head of religious organizations gleaning power and money and prodding the moderates. Given enough power and money, convincing the moderates to fight becomes easy.
How many American Christians would you say are armed, half-delusional, and ready to kill for Jesus?
TheHigherVoltage 1 month ago
man, i know this conversation all too well. especially since practically all my friends are Christians, a few Catholics.
lianabak 1 month ago
"All your friends from school are there, the ones you haven't seen in a long time."
Heaven is Facebook?
oliethefolie 1 month ago 48
@oliethefolie OH GOD NO.
awsomosaurus995 2 weeks ago
Wanting/wishing for something does not make it true. ;O) Unlike that woman is this clip I prefer reality over fantasy.
Katalyzt
Katalyzt 2 months ago
@preciousmetalz
Science & its method of investigation are derived from Greek philosophy People who went into nature to find explanations for things like diseases, earthquakes etc instead of attributing them to the gods Christianity & Islam nearly destroyed science because of their closeminded religious persecution without the enlightenment science like we know would not exist Look up Hippocrates, Herodotus etc you might actually learn something instead of reading 'holy' books.
RogierV2 2 months ago
@RogierV2 Sorry, but I believe you are mistaken.
preciousmetalz 2 months ago
@preciousmetalz
You can believe anything, you can believe the earth is flat or that aliens visit us. It is a fact that ancient Greek philosophy is the basis for modern science, read a good book on the history of the scientific process or science (now that I think of it Wikipedia is also suitable). I guarantee you it'll prove what I said, or you can ignore what I said and keep believing in your claim which doesn't have any evidence to support itself.
RogierV2 2 months ago
@RogierV2 You mean 'The Scientific Method'. Even after I give you evidence of the contribution religious scholars have given to modern science, you will still antagonize a response that omitts religion. I suggest you read the wiki article from where I just copied this -Several scientific methods thus emerged from the medieval Muslim world by the early 11th century, all of which emphasized experimentation as well as quantification to varying degrees. Ibn al-Haytham (Alhazen), a pioneer of scien..
preciousmetalz 2 months ago
@preciousmetalz
I never said theologians or religious scholars never contributed to science. You stated they invented science, which is false. We know Hippocrates was the first to practise medicine and many other sciences have ancient Greek roots. It is indeed true that Arabs and later Europeans worked on the scientific method. But the foundation is and will always be what those ancient philosophers made century ago.
RogierV2 2 months ago
@RogierV2 I understand what you are saying. I disagree. Ancient philophers layed no foundations, they were taking arm-chair shots in the dark, save a few. If I were to say where the foundations upon which rests 'modern science' originated from based upon specific significant inventions and discoveries (that are now the bedrock of science) you still won't accept it.
preciousmetalz 2 months ago
@preciousmetalz
You do understand that before these philosophers going into nature to find explanations for everyday phenomena was unheard off Arab Scientists translated ancient Greek texts to use for their experiments There's a reason why modern science uses Latin & Greek The enlightenment is Europe was based on Roman and Greek ideas about Science, the world and philosophy Saying they didn't lay a basis is like saying ancient Athens didn't lay the basis for democracy
RogierV2 2 months ago
@RogierV2 I disagree sir.
preciousmetalz 2 months ago
@preciousmetalz
Let's just leave it that then because we'll keep going forever if we don't.
RogierV2 2 months ago
@preciousmetalz "arm-chair shots in the dark"?... really? Pythagorus, Euclid, Aristotle, Aristophanes, Heron... I'll stop listing them because they are far too numerous. Look it up and stop being silly.
jacksawild 1 month ago
Hehe, "only nice people will be there".. Sorry, but people like Jerry Falwell or paedophile catholic priests are already up there in Heaven.. : )
winterstellar 2 months ago
personally the concept of an eternity is mind boggling and hellish. i don't want to be knocking about for all time. i want to die (eventually), i want to stop. eternity is a fucking long time
CareFreeWherever 2 months ago 21
@CareFreeWherever Exactly It's stopping too soon that bothers me, not stopping.
PressXtonotdie 1 month ago
@CareFreeWherever only the weak want to stop
zdunichme 1 month ago
@zdunichme cool story, brah
CareFreeWherever 1 month ago
His laugh at 28 secs is classic lol
ProcyonAlpha 2 months ago
Who filmed this? Was it a scripted thing that they acted out? I know Gervais is actually an atheist, but it was it like a humourous pretend thing?
funkyfranx 2 months ago
@funkyfranx its from a tv series called 'Extras'
CallidusAnguis 2 months ago
hahahahahah I want to believe the same as this lady but then again I like living in a fantasy world. "You believe in God then"
Em183 2 months ago
Ricky Gervais was the first person on television I ever heard use the word "Atheist."
misinglink15 2 months ago
I would have responded by saying "what you want, or like, or prefer, or what makes you comfortable has nothing to do with whats real". I think that makes people pretty uncomfortable but I would rather they were uncomfortable and dealing with reality than comfortable and delusional.
Snipe4261 2 months ago
As a believer in elves, I was deeply offended by this video :)
ILuvTilt 2 months ago 3
Woah woah, hold the religious debate!
The reason Ricky is being aggressive in this scene is to do with the characters relationship! Andy, Ricky's character is generally aggressive towards Maggie because she's irritatingly dim. It happens with their conversations about anything not just Christianity!
It's a scene from a TV drama guys! Jeez.
Davestooff 2 months ago
WHY would believing in a god end up with the story of haven and hell? why can't we just believe a god created the universe, but he did not give it any PURPOSE.. a totally purposeless existence. WHY NOT? why should there be any purpose for existence? a man can live without any cosmic/divine purpose and only take care of himself and the woman he loves and no one and nothing else. why would it be "bad", or "meaningless" or even "impossible"? in fact, there is no cosmic/divine purpose or morality.
arzadi11 2 months ago
@arzadi11 " why can't we just believe a god created the universe, but he did not give it any PURPOSE"
Well, because first one would have to provide evidence for this god and since none has been provided I don't believe. Simple as that.
nake89 2 months ago
@nake89 you totally misunderstood me... my point is why the belief in god ended up with creating a man made "purpose" for existence? i just want to know why the original people didn't just believe in their god without giving any purpose to his creations? what caused them to mix god and the purpose of existence? do u understand now? i'm not here to assert the existence of any god... that's for religious people to do...
arzadi11 2 months ago
classic conversation, drives me crazy arguing with them
sk8rocgirl 2 months ago
@sk8rocgirl Just tell them that being an atheist give you telepathic powers.
nilbud 2 months ago
Have anyone heard about Ferhianeb? No, then let me explain it is since long a god that created a sea for himself he made it by expanding a singularity in 3 directions and gave it a velocity which he called the fourth vector. He then let the sea boil in turmoil and left it noone has believed in him ever but we have the proof of him, and that's big bang, space and time.
livedandletdie 3 months ago
@livedandletdie No no you filthy heretic his name was Bili.
nilbud 2 months ago
Human delusion will always look to the abstract rather than face the reality!
Thumbs up to Gervais!!
jjoneil73 3 months ago
@jjoneil73 you understand reality through abstract thinking.
Avelorn84 3 months ago
@Avelorn84 I disagree, i understand reality through the tangible.
jjoneil73 3 months ago
@jjoneil73 Taken for true and being on youtube there's a good chance you're a bot which would make for an interesting conversation. Either that or you wake up very surprised every morning. Facing reality involves trying (but mostly failing) to realize how abstractions limits ones understanding of reality which in term leads to new and hopefully better abstractions. It is not facing reality to superimpose ones abstractions as reality, and to claim understanding the reality through the tangible.
Avelorn84 3 months ago
@Avelorn84 You assume a lot and thats your first error and secondly, it would be most helpful if you were to speak plain English and refrain from "internet jargon" as one is not a "bot" or either wakes up every morning surprised...
jjoneil73 3 months ago
I, and I'm sure some other atheists, would like to have a wonderful place to reunite with our departed loved ones; we just don't believe it. We have our reasons. If you insist on replying, I MIGHT respond, but I don't need evangelizing. I've had plenty of that. I know what the majority of Christians believe. I'm just stating my opinion.
MsLilithJS 3 months ago 27
@MsLilithJS Maybe one day we'll figure out how to download our personalities to a vast computer which contains an ideal world. And only the true Atheists will be allowed on it. How ironic would that be?
Oceanus57 3 months ago 37
@Oceanus57 It would be ironic but let's face it if that did happen then everyone would be allowed to upload their personalities to it and most people who are religious probably wouldn't anyway.
CaptainPatche 2 months ago
@Oceanus57 if we figure out how to "download personalities onto a computer", by which you imply transferring consciousness onto manufactured wiring, we would have no need to live in a virtual world. Just produce artificial eyes, and other senses - and you are good to go. You are now a "greek god".
just saying, your proposition is half-assed. Any kind of science that can transfer consciousness from carbon-based life to non-carbon-based computer can figure out a way to make it a whole body.
Valholm 2 months ago
@Valholm Well, it's only half-assed if you want to carry on living in the real world. If you'd like to live in an idealised, perfect world you could build that for yourself too. Given that as a result of gaming and the internet, lots of people prefer to try and live in a virtual world of their own invention, I don't see what's half-assed about building a virtual world that's not full of misery and suffering and food-chains where everything preys on everything else, like this one is.
Oceanus57 2 months ago 5
@Oceanus57 well, figuring a way to last our consciousness indefinitely does not mean the end of struggle for survival. The Universe itself is mortal, as assumed by modern science. If everyone goes into that virtual world of yours, with no intention ever to return, than there will be no one left to protect it in the actual world, and find a way to break the limits of our Universe, so to speak. (not implying it is possible) So one day, the virtual world will die with all the people inside it.
Valholm 2 months ago
@Oceanus57 if you want to exchange a doomed, but perfect "non-humane" world with a chance of finding "final answer to survival", for a doomed, but perfect "humane" world without a chance of finding "final answer to survival" - go right ahead. I mean it's up to you.
Valholm 2 months ago
@Oceanus57 Oh my, I'd love that. Moment you die, your memories and personality are transferred to a massive computer. Sweet! I mean I'd still be dead, and cease to be, but a part of me would exist somehow. Which appeals to me greatly.
andromidius 2 months ago
@Oceanus57 Imagine the irony if only atheists went to heaven. You'd turn up and be like, "OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE!" XD.
195ashes 2 months ago
@MsLilithJS I don't know about that.
Imagine an eternity at a family reunion...
MrFungus420 2 months ago
@MsLilithJS
There are several ways to see all the friends you had in high school; school reunions, face book, telephone, and e-mail to name a few.
Why not just contact the people you want to reunite with and do lunch.
Blairtim69 2 months ago
@Blairtim69 I don't know if you meant to reply to me or not. I was referring to departed loved ones, as in those who are already dead. I know how get in touch with those still alive.
MsLilithJS 2 months ago
It's rather softcore scenario. In real life, at least in Poland, discussions about gods and other stuff like this are much, much more intense experience and you certainly have to refute much more difficult arguments than fluffy beliefs that the girl from the clip has. Most people are pretty pis**d off when you even mention that someone on the other side of the world doubts existence of god they believe in and you have to answer every little question if you want them to leave you alone peacefully
mmsmsy 3 months ago
I don't understand... she's nice, and not hateful, stupid or ignorant. Why do some atheists treat people like her as the worst christian they've ever encountered? You want to see some stupid christians? watch the atheist experience and you won't even care about people like her..
NikkiAndrogynous 3 months ago
@NikkiAndrogynous
Because we love her and we want her to be happy.
And we think her clinging to her denial the way she does is probably, deep down, making her very sad. Most schemes of denial are toxic, and discarding a bad scheme of lies you tell yourself and facing up to the truth is usually an empowering and enriching experience.
Oceanus57 3 months ago 16
@Oceanus57 This does not make any sense. Why would it make her sad to believe in an afterlife? Then you presume that everyone intuitively knows the truth about Gods existence which sounds like a very religious notion to me.
Avelorn84 3 months ago
@Oceanus57 ...and that is exactly how "christians" feel about talking sense into "ateists"...funny indeed!
jef108 2 months ago
@Oceanus57 *atheists :)
jef108 2 months ago
@Oceanus57 and btw: someone who REALLY loves another person, does not go around popping that person's balloon, whatever color it has. A truly loving, mature human being (whatéver he believes) leaves other people alone with whatever makes them happy. Nobody knows what this life is all about. Not even Einstein. It is not because you give something a name and put it in a box that it suddenly is no longer a miracle. Life is a mystery, and it will always remain a mystery. Live and let Live. Cheers!
jef108 2 months ago
@jef108 I think the problem a lot of atheists have is that they would like to be told if someone had lied to them, or that they were wrong, and expect others to desire the same courtesy. They might also question whether deluding yourself can ever truly make you happy. If you want to live in a dream world where everything's mysterious and there are no answers, then that's up to you, but don't be surprised if the people around you try to wake you up from time to time...
Seiryuu270 2 months ago
@Seiryuu270 hm...maybe atheists are the ones deluding themselves...wait and see:) but, no skin of my back. Live and let live.
jef108 2 months ago
@jef108 A delusion is defined as a false opinion held despite overwhelming evidence. There is no evidence for god, otherwise atheists would agree god exists. Theirs is merely one of few sensible viewpoints on the matter.
Seiryuu270 2 months ago
@Seiryuu270 no evidence for god? have you looked in the mirror lately?
jef108 2 months ago
@jef108 I have, continually, I'm quite obsessed with it. But the fact that I'm able to check my fine self out doesn't require the existence of god... At best all you can say is the existence of the universe could suggest a god.
Seiryuu270 2 months ago
@Seiryuu270 ...require? No, proves:) The existence of the universe, your own existence, the existence of a mosquito sitting on elephantdung in Namibia, a fabulous sunset in San Diego, me farting after a great meal...same thing. God is Alive as Reality. What else should we call this Absolute Mystery of existence? Nature? And what does thát explain?
jef108 2 months ago
@jef108 You could call it what it is at base mechanic levels, composites, abstract ideas. Calling it God explains no more than does any of those. Though to be quite honest, I fear we don't actually differ in opinion too strongly on the nature of God so... I'll leave this one!
Seiryuu270 2 months ago
@Seiryuu270 :) cheers
jef108 2 months ago
@jef108 Wait you saw him as balloon popping? I saw them as having a frank discussion, one which she started, and him stating his lack of beliefs and answering her questions. The only thing that could be construed as balloon popping would be that look he gives at the end. And she's not even looking at him, so how would that affect her. Was he supposed to lie to her and go along with whatever she had to say even though it goes against his own judgment. This conversation seemed pleasant to me
Jonstern1983 2 months ago
@Jonstern1983 i wasn't talking about ricky really...I agree with you about this scene: a conversation between "friends"...I was talking about "most other" atheists, who think that théir truth is THE truth, while they have no clue, just like the rest of us :)..of course that goes for a lot of religious people as well...we seem to have alot of trouble leaving eachother alone.
jef108 2 months ago
@jef108 I see what you mean, but you have to agree that the only real truth is the one that is completely objective. That doesn't necessarily preclude god(s), but it does necessarily include all of the scientific discoveries, and does preclude biblical literalism.
Jonstern1983 2 months ago
@Jonstern1983"the only real truth is the one that is completely objective" How can you be so sure about that?
imo the objective truth is necessarily limited to the superficial, the material, when there is so much more to human existence than that. It seems to me that the truth(s) that really matter are indeed rather subjective. Love, Health, Religion (yes), Joy, etc. The objective truths deal with circumstances, the setting, and are also subject to constant change. Objective? I don't know...
jef108 2 months ago
@Jonstern1983 ...but let's not even consider biblical literalism, that's one of the many forms of madness that humanity is capable of :) this does not mean, however, that religion in itself is wrong, or even not True. It is as essential to human nature as eating and drinking. It is our way of dealing with the miraculous mystery that life and consciousness is. It is not because science investigates and learns to control certain aspects of "It" that suddenly "It" is no longer a Miracle..
jef108 2 months ago
@Jonstern1983 I also think that for an Objective truth to be really objective (and really true:)) it has to be understood, and accepted by everyone...but since obviously not everyone is at the same point in (their) evolution, that could prove to be a problem... etc, etc...as long as we stay polite with eachother, right? :)
jef108 2 months ago
@jef108 That's just flat out wrong. Objective truth, by its very definition is something that is true with the absence of the mind. Evolution occurs, and it occurred prior to sentience or discovery. The planets in our solar system revolve around the sun, and have done so for billions of years. I'm not saying religion is wrong, I'm saying it's not necessarily right. There could be something beyond what we can determine, but just because it could be doesn't mean it is.
Jonstern1983 2 months ago
@Jonstern1983 I beg to differ:) The thing is, when the mind is absent, nothing exists. We human beings cognise and make sense out of an in essence incomprehensable reality by means of the mind. Individually as well as collective. In the absense of the mind there is nothing, no objective truth. When the mind dies, the universe dies. The material world has no existence outside of the mind. The whole universe is nothing more than an tiny electrical spark in the brain (including the brain itself ;)
jef108 2 months ago
@Jonstern1983 And "GOD" is what causes the "hallucination", He –IT– IS the hallucination...un-knowable to the mind, and thus impossible to prove objectively, by science - only the 'subject' can get an intuitive glimps of IT. And thát is/causes Trúe Religion. But, in the end, since we're all in the same boat obviously, it's all about unity, love, understanding, tollerance, etc...And we certainly don't have to be a religious person to live like thát, do we? Ah, sweet dreams...
jef108 2 months ago
@jef108 No offense, but that sounds like true solipsism, and if that is the case then nothing actually matters. It also implies that every shred of evidence is non-existent, and I cannot accept that. Not because it's too troubling, but because it's too worthless.
Jonstern1983 2 months ago
@Jonstern1983 I'd say éverything matters, because everything is one and the same, what you see is what you are, what you do to another, you do to yourself. It would be worthless if it were just conceptual. And that danger does exist, ofcourse. There is always room for misunderstanding and abuse. That's the trouble with organised religion: misunderstanding and abuse. And that goes for science as well: every murder with a weapon ever is made possible by science, from the A-bomb to a potato knife..
jef108 2 months ago
@Jonstern1983 and I wouldn't say that every shred of evidence is non-existent. It's just that science should never be a filosofy, it should always remain truly free investigation, without being reductionist. Personally I'm sure that sooner or later science and religion will meet eachother halfway, they will merge. Because let's face it: all of this IS a mystery, no matter how many labels we put on it. And the truly free scientific mind on the other hand will always be a messenger of "True God".
jef108 2 months ago
@Jonstern1983 ...and I'm nót talking about father christmas on a cloud:)
jef108 2 months ago
@Oceanus57 Thing is, she wouldn't know if it's actually truth she is facing up to. She may have doubts about atheism, and then it can be argued that she's living in denial that there is a God. I honestly don't buy into the atheist's argument that they are much happier. I think both christians and atheist have similar measures of unhappiness. The diference is that christians have hope in something greater and atheists have contentment in something less.
Indalja 2 months ago
@Indalja I made a mistake, I should have said "You cannot prove this (god, etc) negative." I forgot the "this."
lundymaphone 2 months ago
@NikkiAndrogynous Thing is, atheists generally -don't- treat Christians like her as the worst ever. They only try to explain why their beliefs, though comforting, aren't right. (denial of the truth, to instead believe in something that makes you feel good is not a good thing. It's called living in your own fantasy world, or living in denial.) It's the christians you hear on the atheist experience, that atheists treat as the worst christians ever.
Sanquinity 3 months ago
@NikkiAndrogynous Its because they are nice. Its hard to do anything bar smile and nod when they talk about religion, because you don't want to upset them.
andromidius 2 months ago
@NikkiAndrogynous You completely missed the point. This clip did not have Gervais taking what she said as a personal insult. He was simply bewildered by her stupidity and naivety. Essentially "I would rather think" has no bearing on reality, and the fact that her (character obviously) uses that as a point of reasoning is scary and causes quite a few problems in the world. There now you are caught up, enjoy.
lundymaphone 2 months ago
@lundymaphone "Bewildered by her stupidity and naivety"...this is the biggest reason why I can't stand atheists. So much blatant self-centeredness and know-it-all mindsets. Science has FAR from disproved God. And how would her way of thinking cause problems in the world? If all were atheists, would that really stop murder, rape, adultery, abuse, etc...?
Indalja 2 months ago
@Indalja hear, hear!
jef108 2 months ago
@Indalja ..You cannot prove a negative (ie you can't prove something does not exist). What you can say is there is not enough evidence, nor sufficient logical grounds, to state that a god or other deity exists. On another note why play the genetic fallacy card, I am certainly not a large enough sample to make any sort of judgement on a group as large and diverse as atheists. And of what I said, what was "self-centered" or "know-it-all?" Finally, I made no claim as to atheism effect on crime.
lundymaphone 2 months ago
@lundymaphone Initially, I took it as you were saying her way of thinking (Christianity) as a cause of world problems, but re-reading it, I'm assuming you mean her "I would rather think" logic. If so, I apologize. But I see thinking of someone as being stupid as a self-centered attitude. Also, I admit, I shouldn't group all atheists together. It's just mostly what I've seen. And lastly, I disagree; I believe there is ample evidence for the existence of God.
Indalja 2 months ago
@Indalja You are correct, I was faulting her logic, regardless of the outcome her character came too (some sort of Abrahamic-agnostic thing). As far as the self-centered idea. I fail to see how stating a potential fact as having anything to do with me at all. I see being self-centered as focusing on ones self as the focal point of ideas/conversations where it is inappropriate to believe so. As such your definition seems to be different then mine, so we have no real common ground for discussion.
lundymaphone 2 months ago
@Indalja Also I think you would agree that the "existence of god/evidence for" conversation simply cannot take place with this format (youtube, etc). I will point out my argument was logically sound, even if you believe a premise was incorrect. As such I am going to not touch the issue of the existence for god. But this conversation seems to have run its course, nice talk, cheers.
lundymaphone 2 months ago
@lundymaphone I agree, I prefer not to have the arguement of God's existence, but I made the statement in reaction to you labeling the lady as stupid. Naive, I can agree on. She seemed to lack any logical ground for her beliefs. But stupidity should be saved for those who are purposely ignorant or blatantly foolish. She, as most Christians, really believe what they, well, believe. So I stated my position to defend against the label of stupid.
Indalja 2 months ago
@lundymaphone Also, my self-centered statement was mainly referring, again, to labeling her stupid. Without a qualifying reason to label her as such (e.g., she's being blatantly ignorant), it comes off as selfish. A self-less person would try to see where she's coming from. It just seems arrogant. Anyway, I realize you were just commenting on a character in a show and probably weren't expecting to have this kind of discussion. My fault. Still, nice talking to you. Ciao.
Indalja 2 months ago
Imagine in 2000 years time, somebodys find a Harry Potter book buried under the soil, they read it, will they think that we were all wizards? lol @religion
Phoenix1664 3 months ago
she's absolutely lovely. i'm a full blown christian and i couldn't be more proud. i think rosaries (or however u spell it) are pointless and useless and wearing robes and going to church aren't necessary either. religion and faith in general are very personal things that don't need to be expressed through dumb material things :)
Smallville357 3 months ago
if this god character shouted down 2,000 years ago from a mountain - why hasn't he ever reappeared since
whats scarier is how many people "believe" in this bible koran torah shit
however meditation and illumination , enlightenment and consciousness is a separate subject and should not be confused with the god cults which they keep trying to use to defend their insanity
whats interesting is how many nice people these cultists have murdered and enslaved
they are wicked cults
timewilltell7 3 months ago
If you belive in scientific "evidence" then you are a person of faith. Atheists, you are among the most narrow-minded people on this earth. Together with a few religious groups you drain this place of potantial. You take away the potential of human beings by shoving your alleged "truth" down their throats.
MrDudorino 3 months ago
@MrDudorino What about the Catholic priests who took away the innocence of young boys by shoving their penises down their throats?
BuckBuckton 3 months ago
Oceanus57- Seriously? that is your question?? The bible was written by a bunch of male chauvonists who were high on mushrooms.
man017 3 months ago
not even ghosts or spirits... or elves : )
lacho614 3 months ago 16
@lacho614 ... So whats a goblin?
MBInbox92 3 months ago
I know for a fact that there is no God.
It's very clear and easy to see.
Gods only exist for as long as they have their stupid, angry little human animators. Once the animators die off , the gods they once empowered shrivel up and die, and become merely anthropological curiosities.
People in the future will laugh themselves sick when they discover the utter bullshit that the godbotherers of our age spouted. Godbotherers! - the more devout you are, the more ridiculous you become.
Oceanus57 3 months ago 23
@Oceanus57 Here's a question atheists can't answer; if god doesn't exist, who wrote the bible?
Denethorable 3 months ago
@Denethorable Was God a right handed pedophile or left handed pedophile?
bl91978 3 months ago
@bl91978 Right handed I suppose, otherwise he would have had trouble writing to the edge
Denethorable 3 months ago
@Denethorable
Um people, more specifically male people from across a fairly large span in history. If you really want to know all you have to do is type 'who wrote the bible' in the the magic google box, and it will ask the spirits of the internet to give you the answer. Caution reading above a 4th grade level is required.
Berelore 3 months ago
@Berelore There's no author credited, it's written as if it was God because it describes creation and nobody was there apart from him. Obviously he didn't write it himself - he probably employed a ghost writer. The term ghost writer comes from "Holy Ghost". It's pretty obvious when you read the bible - it's got so much practical, realistic advice - how could it not be written by God? You can't explain it.
Denethorable 3 months ago
@Denethorable
Dude you are too good at being a poe you need to include a winky smiley or a lol or something so the creationist idiots realize you're parodying them
Berelore 3 months ago
@Berelore Yeah it's always cheap being a poe - there's literally no way of telling. I've heard creationists come out with weirder stuff than that and be serious. Maybe creationists don't exist, it's just a horde or poes
Denethorable 3 months ago
@Denethorable 'practical, realistic advice' like curing leprosy using blood from a dead bird?
Or more like changing how your cow's offspring will look by showing it a piece of cloth?
Sure sounds like a load of bovine excrement that somebody just made up out of thin air to seem like a superduper smart and magic solution to otherwise insurmountable problems.. speaking of which, can you find the cure for a disease in the bible? just one.. it has to work, but one is a good start!
GronTheMighty 3 months ago
@GronTheMighty "just one.. it has to work, but one is a good start!" Easy, you already said it: "like curing leprosy using blood from a dead bird?" And before you say it don't work, have you ever tried it? How do you know it doesn't work if you haven't tried any of it?
Denethorable 3 months ago
@Denethorable It has been tried loads in the past, before people questioned the incredibly stupid doctrines it is part of.. something that cannot be emphasized enough even in the present age, because apparently some people don't quite grasp why the scientific approach to making workable solutions be available is the ONLY method we can consistently expect nearly the same results from as we actually get... because.. it.. works! ;)
GronTheMighty 3 months ago
@Denethorable As you may have figured out by now, i don't honestly care a tidbit about what you or anyone believe to be true, nor do i care to share what i believe to be true. i care about what can be demonstrated to be true, because demonstrations are by definition repeatable and thus verifiable ; of the myriad of religions available for faithful worship, only a few of them adhere to doctrines emanating from texts that have demonstrably non-true statements of fact, one of which being the bible.
GronTheMighty 3 months ago
@GronTheMighty Right on.
Oceanus57 3 months ago
@GronTheMighty Well of course it's true, that's why it's called "the gospel". You've probably never heard of the ring of faith - which is how the bible is demonstrably true. God wrote the bible, therefore everything in the bible is true, how do we know? The bible says it is. And if the bible says it is, then it must be - because it was writted by god, how do we know it was written by God? It says so in the bible. The facts are on my side here.
Denethorable 3 months ago
@Denethorable Writted by God. LOL Are you for real or just like a comedy troll?
Oceanus57 3 months ago
Comment removed
Denethorable 3 months ago