how interesting that I've NEVER seen someone who believed in miracles convinced that they don't exist, but I can't count the number of people that thought miracles didn't exist...until they experienced one. These old-liners that believe cessationism just show their sheltered life. Go to the growing church- china, india, and you'll see miracles.
I just want to say that I am a Calvinist and I believe that when the Perfect comes (Jesus) then shall the gifts of the Spirit will pass away and his LOVE will endure forever. The cessasionalist position is created off of a misinterpretation of this verse. If you don't believe in the gifts then you might as well cut out 1 Corinthians 12,14.
@FirebrandNIRE Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the PERFECT comes, the partial will pass away. ....For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then FACE TO FACE. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. 1 Corinthians 13:8-12
@FirebrandNIRE So when the Perfect comes the partial will pass away. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but THEN face to face. The Bible is perfect but it does not contain everything about God, John 21:25 says that if all the things Christ did were written the books would fill all the earth. The Bible is totally sufficient for what we need to know now, but we still see dimly and know in part. Also the Canon of Scripture would not be fully put together for another few centuries.
@FirebrandNIRE When we come to face to face with Christ, then shall we know fully. Paul isn't talking about a "fuller revelation" but a COMPLETE and perfect revelation which comes when we see Christ when he returns for his sheep! Would you say that the Bible completely represents everything to know about God?
The host is a complete travesty, He's obviously knows very little of profound biblical teachings, yet has the audacity to down play Angus as though he is some sort of second class believer.
It is through doctrines like these that Satan has worked his power to "overcome even the elect"! How can you resist the materialist without the Spiritual? As the Psalmist says:
Psalm 79 10Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is their God?
Satan's "miracles" are mere slight-of-hand, technological artifacts, nothing more (consider the atom bomb when you read "call fire down from the heavens" for example)! Satan is all about illusion and deception, not truth!
The unbelivers will also assert that the beast of Revelations will perform signs and wonders to deceive mankind- and they will assert that these will be truly miraculous things. But I say this is a false doctrine on top of a false doctrine! Satan is called "THE FATHER OF LIES"!! How can the "father of lies" be true?
Yes Paul saw Jesus after his ascension but in his account in 1 Corinth 15:8, Paul says that 'Last of all, he appeared to me...' Paul expected himself to be the last person that Christ would appear to.
@eklektos777 with a closer examination, you will see that Paul simply said that of those who saw Christ he saw Christ the Last in that group mentioned. The verse does not make seeing Christ exclusive to The group mentioned. It simply shows that Paul was the last one to see christ in that particular group.
I AM TRIPPIN!,did i just hear the commentator at the beggining say, "It just doesnt make sense to me that the devil would come as an angel of the light" or something along those lines....has he NEVER studied his bible?!!?!??!?! 2 CORINTHIANS 11:14 sound familiar?!?!!?!
Stewart is trying to derive a normative doctrinal principle -- which contradicts many Christians' experiences -- from a couple of innocently descriptive, non-doctrinal passages. His interpretation is not only weak, but contrived and a tad desperate.
Dreams and visions can bring us in the presence of the Lord I have seen Him many times in a spirit form not in flesh What do we imagine dreams and vision from the Lord can offer? Do we limit the Lord as to what He desires to show us?
I am part of a charismatic church, and to be honest i never really sought after the spiritual gifts, although i believe in them. I had a prophetic dream, and at the time i knew it was a significant dream but didn't realize it was prophetic, until the dream came to pass. I just think it is ignorant to say that your experiences don't count for anything. Being a christian is about experience, you EXPERIENCED God speaking into your life, touching your life, and calling you to salvation.
For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
1 Corinthians 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
what exactly do you mean by these scriptures? I studied the book of Acts last semester in Ministry school. I know what they mean and in what context they written. They make no sense if you are trying to counter what i just said with them.
A time when mans ignorance in God a result of God not revealing much to them
Therefore He did not hold some men accountable for some sins
However since the cross all men everywhere R commanded to repent. All men are held accountable since the cross.
He will judge the world in righteousness and the peoples with equity. (Ps 98.9)
Equity- and none will say 'not fair' with God's judgment... none will argue their situation is unfair. We can know for certain through Equity all will be judged.
Yeah, there are no perfect people, or churches, and there it will stay that way until Christ returns. That just urks me when people put God in a box because they are not able to grow or advance in a certain area, so they reason that it is not of God. I've been in that position before, but thank God he revealed his truth to me and i have grown SO much since then.
There is no further revelation outside of Scripture. Im not saying the Holy Spirit will not speak individually to our hearts. I am saying that we do NOT have to recognize nor acknoledge the Work of God in our hearts, the supernatural work of God doesnt stand or fall according to us. He will change us, we dont change ourselves through awareness. He will change us in a progressive manner so that we can grow according to His Word.
Angus pointed out the story of Lazarus and the Rich man. This story is also a clear cut example of Gods election. "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they WILL NOT BE PERSUADED EVEN IF SOMEONE RISES FROM THE DEAD!!" If they didn't hear His voice it was because they were not of His sheep!! Glory to Jesus!!!!! I know this comment has nothing to do with your SK75, I just thought I would point it out. :)
Glad you pointed that to our attension. Thanks man,we need to see this from every angle and thats some spiritual truth from the parable that we should all examine and muse over it again and again. To see the applcations of this,yeah,thats the main points
It grieves me. Many who believe in the gifts of the spirit rely TOO MUCH on feeling and NEW revelation, "a now revelation". Does Angus debate more biblically sound folks? He really studies his word, watch how he give chapter and verse while the others say around chapter 7 or either verse 7 or 8.
I wish this host, would give scriptural basis on what he believes. As christians should believe 100% on the bible. Experience versus the bible. My vote bible anyday!
The host really should be more qualified in finding scripture or have a palm-pilot with a bible in it. It gets old having this guy keep asking for more time to look for the reference.
how interesting that I've NEVER seen someone who believed in miracles convinced that they don't exist, but I can't count the number of people that thought miracles didn't exist...until they experienced one. These old-liners that believe cessationism just show their sheltered life. Go to the growing church- china, india, and you'll see miracles.
andeeman55 1 month ago
I just want to say that I am a Calvinist and I believe that when the Perfect comes (Jesus) then shall the gifts of the Spirit will pass away and his LOVE will endure forever. The cessasionalist position is created off of a misinterpretation of this verse. If you don't believe in the gifts then you might as well cut out 1 Corinthians 12,14.
DerZanDa 6 months ago
@DerZanDa
Misinterpretation regarding cessasionalism? Could you elaborate a little?
Where in the whole of Scripture does the phrase "When that which is perfect is come" refer or allude to Christ's return?
Paul is peaking of a fuller revelation, of which the Church had not yet received, the obvious reason for this was that the NT was not yet completed.
FirebrandNIRE 6 months ago
@FirebrandNIRE Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the PERFECT comes, the partial will pass away. ....For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then FACE TO FACE. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. 1 Corinthians 13:8-12
DerZanDa 6 months ago
@FirebrandNIRE So when the Perfect comes the partial will pass away. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but THEN face to face. The Bible is perfect but it does not contain everything about God, John 21:25 says that if all the things Christ did were written the books would fill all the earth. The Bible is totally sufficient for what we need to know now, but we still see dimly and know in part. Also the Canon of Scripture would not be fully put together for another few centuries.
DerZanDa 6 months ago
@FirebrandNIRE When we come to face to face with Christ, then shall we know fully. Paul isn't talking about a "fuller revelation" but a COMPLETE and perfect revelation which comes when we see Christ when he returns for his sheep! Would you say that the Bible completely represents everything to know about God?
DerZanDa 6 months ago
The host is a complete travesty, He's obviously knows very little of profound biblical teachings, yet has the audacity to down play Angus as though he is some sort of second class believer.
FirebrandNIRE 7 months ago
This is good
Thegospelrapper 1 year ago
Debates usually accomplish nothing. Just a bunch of opinions and ends up in just that. Opinions are like a-holes everyones got one.
BSmenot 1 year ago
It is through doctrines like these that Satan has worked his power to "overcome even the elect"! How can you resist the materialist without the Spiritual? As the Psalmist says:
Psalm 79 10Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is their God?
daBlackBaron13 1 year ago
Satan's "miracles" are mere slight-of-hand, technological artifacts, nothing more (consider the atom bomb when you read "call fire down from the heavens" for example)! Satan is all about illusion and deception, not truth!
daBlackBaron13 1 year ago
The unbelivers will also assert that the beast of Revelations will perform signs and wonders to deceive mankind- and they will assert that these will be truly miraculous things. But I say this is a false doctrine on top of a false doctrine! Satan is called "THE FATHER OF LIES"!! How can the "father of lies" be true?
daBlackBaron13 1 year ago
And what of John? Who did he see when he received Revelations?
daBlackBaron13 1 year ago
Yes Paul saw Jesus after his ascension but in his account in 1 Corinth 15:8, Paul says that 'Last of all, he appeared to me...' Paul expected himself to be the last person that Christ would appear to.
eklektos777 1 year ago
@eklektos777 with a closer examination, you will see that Paul simply said that of those who saw Christ he saw Christ the Last in that group mentioned. The verse does not make seeing Christ exclusive to The group mentioned. It simply shows that Paul was the last one to see christ in that particular group.
godapproved 7 months ago
If false miracle will come does it meant we dont need to believe in miracle?
alanobutz 2 years ago
pardon?
FirebrandNIRE 2 years ago
@alanobutz no, we need to believe in miracles, the reason why false ones come, is to try to make us not believe in real ones. believe!
Terrybob123 1 year ago
The gifts cease because some christians dont want to talk about it . If you want healing to manifest in your church , teach and preach it
alanobutz 2 years ago
Go ahead Angus, keep trying to put God in your little box that YOU were never able to exceed.
tcap8055 2 years ago
Angus is just like a Pharisee, all about religion, no personal relationship.
tcap8055 2 years ago
Satan hides behind good works, so dont be surprised
jofo817 2 years ago
I AM TRIPPIN!,did i just hear the commentator at the beggining say, "It just doesnt make sense to me that the devil would come as an angel of the light" or something along those lines....has he NEVER studied his bible?!!?!??!?! 2 CORINTHIANS 11:14 sound familiar?!?!!?!
dwaynesweatman1988 3 years ago
Stewart is trying to derive a normative doctrinal principle -- which contradicts many Christians' experiences -- from a couple of innocently descriptive, non-doctrinal passages. His interpretation is not only weak, but contrived and a tad desperate.
heart4moocows 3 years ago
Jesus appeared to John when he he recieved the book of Revelation. And many many times.
PropheticEncourager 3 years ago
Dreams and visions can bring us in the presence of the Lord I have seen Him many times in a spirit form not in flesh What do we imagine dreams and vision from the Lord can offer? Do we limit the Lord as to what He desires to show us?
Terri3210 3 years ago
I am part of a charismatic church, and to be honest i never really sought after the spiritual gifts, although i believe in them. I had a prophetic dream, and at the time i knew it was a significant dream but didn't realize it was prophetic, until the dream came to pass. I just think it is ignorant to say that your experiences don't count for anything. Being a christian is about experience, you EXPERIENCED God speaking into your life, touching your life, and calling you to salvation.
tcap8055 2 years ago
Acts 17:23
For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
1 Corinthians 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
God Winked
Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; BUT NOW COMMANDETH ALL MEN every where to repent:
Terri3210 2 years ago
what exactly do you mean by these scriptures? I studied the book of Acts last semester in Ministry school. I know what they mean and in what context they written. They make no sense if you are trying to counter what i just said with them.
tcap8055 2 years ago
A time when mans ignorance in God a result of God not revealing much to them
Therefore He did not hold some men accountable for some sins
However since the cross all men everywhere R commanded to repent. All men are held accountable since the cross.
He will judge the world in righteousness and the peoples with equity. (Ps 98.9)
Equity- and none will say 'not fair' with God's judgment... none will argue their situation is unfair. We can know for certain through Equity all will be judged.
Terri3210 2 years ago
ok, gotcha ;)
Yeah, there are no perfect people, or churches, and there it will stay that way until Christ returns. That just urks me when people put God in a box because they are not able to grow or advance in a certain area, so they reason that it is not of God. I've been in that position before, but thank God he revealed his truth to me and i have grown SO much since then.
TraciH123 2 years ago
Jesus does not get modern with man but satan does.
SATAN TODAY....
TODAY THE OCCULT OFFERS COURSES OF DEGREE IN WITCHCRAFT.
RENAMING THE OLD.... TO MODERNIZE.
DEMONIC POSSESSION..CHANNELING
FORTUNE TELLING...FUTURIST
CRYSTAL BALLS...........CRYSTAL CHARMS
GOD IS STILL THE SAME. Revelation 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Test the spirits
Terri3210 2 years ago
Host-"...where two or three are gathered in my name..."
Its not talking about a prayer meeting its talking about church discipline.
Habit7 3 years ago
There is no further revelation outside of Scripture. Im not saying the Holy Spirit will not speak individually to our hearts. I am saying that we do NOT have to recognize nor acknoledge the Work of God in our hearts, the supernatural work of God doesnt stand or fall according to us. He will change us, we dont change ourselves through awareness. He will change us in a progressive manner so that we can grow according to His Word.
Secretknowledge75 3 years ago
Angus pointed out the story of Lazarus and the Rich man. This story is also a clear cut example of Gods election. "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they WILL NOT BE PERSUADED EVEN IF SOMEONE RISES FROM THE DEAD!!" If they didn't hear His voice it was because they were not of His sheep!! Glory to Jesus!!!!! I know this comment has nothing to do with your SK75, I just thought I would point it out. :)
jpmckown 3 years ago
Glad you pointed that to our attension. Thanks man,we need to see this from every angle and thats some spiritual truth from the parable that we should all examine and muse over it again and again. To see the applcations of this,yeah,thats the main points
Secretknowledge75 3 years ago
It grieves me. Many who believe in the gifts of the spirit rely TOO MUCH on feeling and NEW revelation, "a now revelation". Does Angus debate more biblically sound folks? He really studies his word, watch how he give chapter and verse while the others say around chapter 7 or either verse 7 or 8.
mychalpryor24 3 years ago
uhh... yeah but the Devil knows the scriptures inside and out, so that doesn't prove anything to me.
tcap8055 2 years ago
I wish this host, would give scriptural basis on what he believes. As christians should believe 100% on the bible. Experience versus the bible. My vote bible anyday!
stuartasinclair 4 years ago
The host really should be more qualified in finding scripture or have a palm-pilot with a bible in it. It gets old having this guy keep asking for more time to look for the reference.
reformedman 4 years ago