I'm not an advanced rider but was wondering why on an overtake its a good thing to just creep past and not go above the speed limit. When i am doing an overtake i accelerate very hard so i'm on the other side of the road for the minimum amount of time possible. if i go above the speed limit whilst overtaking when i am back in and happy i then come back down to a steady and legal speed. This is not a critisism of what you did so does that mean what i do is incorrect??? thanks
@simivec - Thanks for the comment as it highlights the problem with speed limits and the advanced test. In reality we would 'pinch' a bit to get passed, but on test we have to be within the law. I know the chance of seeing a Police Officer these days is a rarity, but just my luck and they would be there at that minute the candidate does an overtake and exceeds the limit. I think you approach is fine. I think sometimes it is safer to do it your way.
I suspect that the shoulder check was thrown in because he was being observed on a test and he thought he might be marked down if he didn't do it. Just speculating though.
@fatfishy1 Just after he pulls out (he is already in the opposite lane) at 2:12, he checks over his right shoulder. It's a bit late at that point IMHO. After he passes the Micra, he checks over the left side (about 2:15), which seems fine to me.
It is a strange thing this 'system ' of Motorcycle Control. Days gone by you sort of fell into a robotic state when applying the 'system', but if you just step back a bit and think about it more.....
Why do the 'lifesaver', if in doubt YES, but for arguements sake, it takes about on average 2 seconds to do, which at 60 mph, is travelling 180 feet, looking backwards when you are about to overtake.
I agree with constant monitoring of the mirrors you should be aware of your rding environment.
In the DSA guide it does state that it may be dangerous to do a life saver at high speeds, so constant mirror updates would seem more appropriate. Constant observation of surroundings and commom sense seems more appropriate.
may i comment? at 2.15-2.20 roughly, why the very late in-effective lifesaver? also, surely the two driveways and field entrance leading to the field and building on the right hand side where the pupil performed the overtake onto the left hand bend should be treated as hazards also? or did he have a view that is not apparent in this clip? ie through the bend? bad rat
Thanks for the comments, this is where I wish I had several cameras. This is the great thing about Youtube - It gets people thinking and looking for hazards. In this case we had a better view than the camera and they were clear.
And thats why your among one of the best trainers in the country. There is always another way to everything, nothing is black and white.....which foot down comes to mind
In N.I anyway, we have to teach left foot down and the hendon shuffle.
logic behind it being that if a pupil is hit from behind by another vehicle then the telltale skidmark from the rear wheel will indicate the bike was stationary when the accident happened therefore not the fault of the pupil.
personally i like keeping the right foot on rear brake -as it can be used in a number of situations whilst moving also, filtering, low speed manoeuvres, moving off from a stationary position and so on
It doesn't matter what foot you use, you should still cover the brake, and you should be looking in your mirrors for the muppet thats not looking at whats in front of him. Here, if you get hit from behind, it's deemed as the third parties fault
you can cover front brake whilst stationary, but while moving off its prudent to cover the rear brake- i.e at a set of traffic lights or whilst filtering in traffic.i find it beneficial to slip the clutch &drag the rear brake therefore bringing the bike under much better low speed control- plus it has the added bonus that you are using all your fingers on the throttle instead of covering the brake & throttle with differing fingers of the same hand. allows much more sensitive use of the throttle
:thus allowing the rider a much better degree of control -because of the ability to manoeuvre with fine throttle control combined with the use of the rear brake to steady it in certain situations.
for example,how many times have we seen a biker moving off,performing a lifesaver & therefore causing the bike to wander off position?
or whilst filtering putting both feet down(or each one alternatively)to balance the machine from left to right?
in n.i. examiner requires left foot down on test also
forgot to add: unless whilst stopping downhill- then i find it easier to use the front brake to hold the bike.
i guess it all depends on the situation- if you are going for your normal restricted test, left foot down, IAM depending on what you are taught, right foot down ready to click into gear, stopping downhill front brake and so on.
think about your riding and what works best for you, that's what separates a good biker from a great one IMHO: we are NOT robots!
When I trained as a Police Motorcycle Instructor, everything was 'black and white'. Why are we doing it this way,,' Well that's what its says in 'Roadcraft'. I have moved on from theat method of trainig, which in a way worked in the discipline world of the Police in the 1980's. I did a BTEC and NVQ in training and development, which opened up a whole new way of teaching. It works for me.
The problem with 'Roadcraft' is that some trainers look at it as the book which must be obeyed. Sometimes this type of training turns riders into robots and they do things automatically. 'Roadcraft' is only a guide and to be effective, it must be practical and flexible it it's use. So as you say, if you use your mirrors more, why the shoulder check. If you have any doubt double check, ie sholder check or even lifesaver.
I will have to ask Phil..... It was a little late and appears to me to serve no purpose. Shoulder checks, a whole subject in themselves. Do you need to give one if you are 100% sure of your riding environment.
Superb, very patient ride considering the conditions and traffic. See you got a mention in weeble's column in this months RIDE magazine. Shame they didn't mention your training firm though.
Hi N, Great weather here always, I have done the ring around HK a few times, but only as pillion, never on my virago400 as my bike test is not for a few more weeks yet. My poor bike is just sitting in the garage, begging to go out!! Have you been to HK before?
No but I had a client who worked for ARUP, who came to England on a business trip and whilst here, hired a bike and did a course with me. I tok him into the Peak District and of course Wales
Good post Nigel. The speeds that you enjoy there are nice when you are able to reach them. That would be posted at 35 to 45 here in the states. Even then it seems most people here cannot handle those conservative speeds. We have to go way out into the countryside to be able to enjoy a good road. Thanks for the DVD you sent,we'll see if she takes advantage.
Comment removed
equinox830149 3 months ago
I'm not an advanced rider but was wondering why on an overtake its a good thing to just creep past and not go above the speed limit. When i am doing an overtake i accelerate very hard so i'm on the other side of the road for the minimum amount of time possible. if i go above the speed limit whilst overtaking when i am back in and happy i then come back down to a steady and legal speed. This is not a critisism of what you did so does that mean what i do is incorrect??? thanks
simivec 3 months ago
@simivec - Thanks for the comment as it highlights the problem with speed limits and the advanced test. In reality we would 'pinch' a bit to get passed, but on test we have to be within the law. I know the chance of seeing a Police Officer these days is a rarity, but just my luck and they would be there at that minute the candidate does an overtake and exceeds the limit. I think you approach is fine. I think sometimes it is safer to do it your way.
advancedbiker 3 months ago
I suspect that the shoulder check was thrown in because he was being observed on a test and he thought he might be marked down if he didn't do it. Just speculating though.
Crisisbiker 1 year ago
@Crisisbiker
you mean after he'd already pulled out to overtake the Micra??
fatfishy1 1 year ago
@fatfishy1 Just after he pulls out (he is already in the opposite lane) at 2:12, he checks over his right shoulder. It's a bit late at that point IMHO. After he passes the Micra, he checks over the left side (about 2:15), which seems fine to me.
Crisisbiker 11 months ago
Livesaver?
When Phil had pulled out for the overtake he makes an obvious right shoulder check.
My thoughts on this - if you are going to do a "lifesaver" then do it before you move out to overtake in case something faster is coming up behind.
With continous mirror monitoring you could argue that Phil would be certain that there is no threat from something trying to overtake him.
Maybe the last place you should be looking when you are overtaking is over your shoulder.
X32TOH 3 years ago 2
It is a strange thing this 'system ' of Motorcycle Control. Days gone by you sort of fell into a robotic state when applying the 'system', but if you just step back a bit and think about it more.....
Why do the 'lifesaver', if in doubt YES, but for arguements sake, it takes about on average 2 seconds to do, which at 60 mph, is travelling 180 feet, looking backwards when you are about to overtake.
I agree with constant monitoring of the mirrors you should be aware of your rding environment.
advancedbiker 3 years ago
yes and if you look @ 2:14 he moves out before his lifesaver ... not much good looking at the bike overtaking you as it hits you....
paddysboys 3 years ago
In the DSA guide it does state that it may be dangerous to do a life saver at high speeds, so constant mirror updates would seem more appropriate. Constant observation of surroundings and commom sense seems more appropriate.
spadxiii1919 10 months ago
He received gold i believe lumpy711
learn2rideVIDEOS 3 years ago
Surprised about that but hey, I'm no expert.
Thanks for the super fast reply :)
lumpy711 3 years ago
may i comment? at 2.15-2.20 roughly, why the very late in-effective lifesaver? also, surely the two driveways and field entrance leading to the field and building on the right hand side where the pupil performed the overtake onto the left hand bend should be treated as hazards also? or did he have a view that is not apparent in this clip? ie through the bend? bad rat
learn2rideVIDEOS 3 years ago
Thanks for the comments, this is where I wish I had several cameras. This is the great thing about Youtube - It gets people thinking and looking for hazards. In this case we had a better view than the camera and they were clear.
advancedbiker 3 years ago
That was poor overtake, pulled out then indicated then a lifesaver.
Just wondering if he passed the test after that ?
Anyway.......
Thanks for all the vids you put on here , Its all great information. Watched them all now and will be booking my training this summer as a result.
lumpy711 3 years ago
And thats why your among one of the best trainers in the country. There is always another way to everything, nothing is black and white.....which foot down comes to mind
Terayonbiker 3 years ago 2
The foot down, you mean the 'Hendon Shuffle'.
Thanks for the feedback, it is appreciated and make all this worthwhile.
advancedbiker 3 years ago
In N.I anyway, we have to teach left foot down and the hendon shuffle.
logic behind it being that if a pupil is hit from behind by another vehicle then the telltale skidmark from the rear wheel will indicate the bike was stationary when the accident happened therefore not the fault of the pupil.
personally i like keeping the right foot on rear brake -as it can be used in a number of situations whilst moving also, filtering, low speed manoeuvres, moving off from a stationary position and so on
learn2rideVIDEOS 3 years ago
It doesn't matter what foot you use, you should still cover the brake, and you should be looking in your mirrors for the muppet thats not looking at whats in front of him. Here, if you get hit from behind, it's deemed as the third parties fault
Terayonbiker 3 years ago
you can cover front brake whilst stationary, but while moving off its prudent to cover the rear brake- i.e at a set of traffic lights or whilst filtering in traffic.i find it beneficial to slip the clutch &drag the rear brake therefore bringing the bike under much better low speed control- plus it has the added bonus that you are using all your fingers on the throttle instead of covering the brake & throttle with differing fingers of the same hand. allows much more sensitive use of the throttle
learn2rideVIDEOS 3 years ago
:thus allowing the rider a much better degree of control -because of the ability to manoeuvre with fine throttle control combined with the use of the rear brake to steady it in certain situations.
for example,how many times have we seen a biker moving off,performing a lifesaver & therefore causing the bike to wander off position?
or whilst filtering putting both feet down(or each one alternatively)to balance the machine from left to right?
in n.i. examiner requires left foot down on test also
learn2rideVIDEOS 3 years ago
forgot to add: unless whilst stopping downhill- then i find it easier to use the front brake to hold the bike.
i guess it all depends on the situation- if you are going for your normal restricted test, left foot down, IAM depending on what you are taught, right foot down ready to click into gear, stopping downhill front brake and so on.
think about your riding and what works best for you, that's what separates a good biker from a great one IMHO: we are NOT robots!
learn2rideVIDEOS 3 years ago
@learn2rideVIDEOS. Nicely put!
lurcherlongdog 1 year ago
you must have met the same IAM guys as me lol
Terayonbiker 3 years ago
When I trained as a Police Motorcycle Instructor, everything was 'black and white'. Why are we doing it this way,,' Well that's what its says in 'Roadcraft'. I have moved on from theat method of trainig, which in a way worked in the discipline world of the Police in the 1980's. I did a BTEC and NVQ in training and development, which opened up a whole new way of teaching. It works for me.
advancedbiker 3 years ago
exactly, see to many riders do it late. If they had been using their mirrors more they might not have even needed it
Terayonbiker 3 years ago 2
The problem with 'Roadcraft' is that some trainers look at it as the book which must be obeyed. Sometimes this type of training turns riders into robots and they do things automatically. 'Roadcraft' is only a guide and to be effective, it must be practical and flexible it it's use. So as you say, if you use your mirrors more, why the shoulder check. If you have any doubt double check, ie sholder check or even lifesaver.
advancedbiker 3 years ago
Hi nigel, great video as usual. Just one question, why did phil do his shoulder check after moving out to overtake?
Terayonbiker 3 years ago
I will have to ask Phil..... It was a little late and appears to me to serve no purpose. Shoulder checks, a whole subject in themselves. Do you need to give one if you are 100% sure of your riding environment.
advancedbiker 3 years ago
Superb, very patient ride considering the conditions and traffic. See you got a mention in weeble's column in this months RIDE magazine. Shame they didn't mention your training firm though.
Regards
OllyC
ollyc1981 3 years ago 2
I had my name on the VFR and the website in the mag belongs to me and not the DSA. They forgot to buy it.......
advancedbiker 3 years ago
well that's good, did Phil Pass the ROSPA test by the way?
Regards
OllyC
ollyc1981 3 years ago
Yes he got Gold
advancedbiker 3 years ago
lovley roads....
robinphillips 3 years ago 2
How is Hong Kong, do you do the trip around the island......
advancedbiker 3 years ago
Hi N, Great weather here always, I have done the ring around HK a few times, but only as pillion, never on my virago400 as my bike test is not for a few more weeks yet. My poor bike is just sitting in the garage, begging to go out!! Have you been to HK before?
robinphillips 3 years ago
No but I had a client who worked for ARUP, who came to England on a business trip and whilst here, hired a bike and did a course with me. I tok him into the Peak District and of course Wales
advancedbiker 3 years ago
ooo i'd love to ride in Wales, But is it really as good as everyone says? Isnt it always wet?
robinphillips 3 years ago
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2021962 3 years ago
Good post Nigel. The speeds that you enjoy there are nice when you are able to reach them. That would be posted at 35 to 45 here in the states. Even then it seems most people here cannot handle those conservative speeds. We have to go way out into the countryside to be able to enjoy a good road. Thanks for the DVD you sent,we'll see if she takes advantage.
yellowbusguy 3 years ago 2