You're a frickin Monkey Proxy of Aronra's video

[daddyleon]

So... we're also bacteria?

[davidsfriend01]

My wife calls me a sexy beast and my mother calls me a knuckledrager, so I guess I must be a monkey. Time to pester the wife for some monkey buisness :)

[whitewolfwithblackSP]

were apes....actually.....

[TemplarX2]

Dude did you get your degree from in a toilet? You even contradict yourself in your video. apes are no monkeys because we do not descend from old world monkeys.

[thomaseshuis]

@TemplarX2 "You even contradict yourself in your video. " It's aronra's video.

"apes are no monkeys because we do not descend from old world monkeys." Have you actually watched the video?

[TemplarX2]

@thomasehuis The method described can never work. Else down the line you could be anything. We should be classified generally 2 or 3 classification from species level.. Anyway this argument is counter productive as we are trying to correlate layman terms with scientific terms. This guy's opinion is still a minority opinion!

[thomaseshuis]

@TemplarX2 "This guy's opinion is still a minority opinion!" Argument from popularity fallacy.

[TemplarX2]

@thomaseshuis Minority scientific opinion. These classification methods can be very political sometimes and open to controversy! It's always better to stick to majority scientific opinion. this doesn't mean I'm necessary right.

[thomaseshuis]

@TemplarX2 "Minority scientific opinion." Still an argument from popularity fallacy.

The amount of scientist accepting a theory does not determine whether it is accurate or factual.

That the earth is round, also used to be a ´Minority scientific opinion´.

[faro0485]

/watch?v=zLnNi_qb7nY

[Aanthanur]

I am a proud monkey.

[ScienceIsInteresting]

1. I fucking love monkeys.

2. Fuck off with your arguing religion bullshit.

3. You're a fucking monkey, mate.

[SufferInJuly]

M.L.King, Jr. stole the writings of others as had Alex Haley, "author" of "Roots."

[SufferInJuly]

Evolutive processes: chemic, biologic, epidemiologic, symbiotic, are all racing toward their uncharted, random, purposeless ends. 

[LilandraX]

@SufferInJuly you supply your own purpose. Evolution is a scientific theory and explains a pattern observed in nature. It is like looking to any natural process and looking for purpose. If a tornado wreaks a path of destruction it is simply a matter of weather and physics there is no purpose in it in and of itself. I hope that helps.

[SufferInJuly]

@LilandraX : Darwin's Sumerian postulations are worthless. They have no application.

[Cadfan17]

AronRa says that Fish = Chordate. My wife the biologist thinks that tunicates might contradict this, since they are chordates, but are prior to fish. She suggests Fish = Vertebrates. Thoughts?

[MidwinterSon]

This is one of the best vids on youtube...

[Atanatotatos]

I can't believe how fast he can spit out words.

[NinjaChampionKO]

Considering we are just monkeys is not an insult it is a compliment..

Now we can finally come to terms that our exploitation of other life forms on this planet was only a natural part of nature and the food chain...

We are not better than other animals but that should not prevent us from taking ourselves into a higher esteem..

[NinjaChampionKO]

I wanna fuck creationists monkey style..

[Hikikomori013]

I see two possibilities; either an animal can evolve into a new classification and we're no longer true apes (different jaw shape and post cranial structure), or we're at the very least, a developed worm. Which might explain politicians.

It's an old argument between splitters and lumpers. I don't know if they'll ever agree.

[jbz3]

I wonder if he noticed 'really weird monky-fish". Was that supposed to be monkey-fish?

[ecristiano18]

Excuse my English. I do not know too much English because I-n not english, but I hope you understand me. But I hope you understand, that we are something special. We are lucky because we are people. We are wise, rational, educated, smart. It's impossible for us to come from wild animals. We are superior beings. I hope you understand me and not let these bastards right. Perhaps they come from monkeys.:))

[oddman8555]

@ecristiano18 there are so many arguemnts to address and so much fail in your posts it is hard to keep up, but I'll try.

A. We are monkeys because of classification wise, we have all the same characteristics as other monkeys.

B. World creation has NOTHING to do with evolution of life, since evolution only involves life already here

C. Species can branch into more then 1 species. Also a new species doesn't mean the old HAS to die off.

[oddman8555]

@ecristiano18 D. Show that man appeared, fully formed, out of no where. Should be "easiest thing on earth", as you put it.

E. Rational...many animals show it, hell any animal that learns demonstrates some rationality.

F. Superior is a very egotistical word choice. I could argue that 'lesser' animals are better, if only because they can survive better, can not over populate so badly or a plethora of other reasons...

[adolthitler]

@ecristiano18

Its not impossible to come from animals. We did, you did. You are a monkey, you are an ape, you are a human.

[ecristiano18]

@adolthitler I'm not a monkey. I am a human. Human was create seam as monkeys, cat, dog, lion or anioane animal. Human is the best thing on earth. Human is human and monkeys is monkey.

[adolthitler]

@ecristiano18

All your questions about monkeys are anwered in the video.

You are a monkey because apes are monkeys, we are apes. So you are a monkey. You are no more special than a bacteria or a mushroom. You have no more value than anything else. Your declarations of humans supreme value is random, and vain.

[TurboDally]

"I'm not a monkey. I am a human."

We are STILL animals. Just as a lion is still a cat, humans are still animals, and having higher intelligence does not mean we did not come from a simpler form.

"Human is the best thing on earth."

Nukes, pollution, killing each other, rape, superstition.

[resignator]

@TurboDally Dont forget child molestation. Oh, where would the church be without child molestation?

[NUTCASE71733]

@ecristiano18

Humans are mammals, which are animals. Furthermore we are vertibrates, warm-blooded, we breath oxygen, consume plants and other animals, have blood, we make more of our kind via sex, and fossils as well as genetics show we are PRIMATES.

[bdf2718]

We are great apes. We are apes. We are monkeys. We are mammals. We are chordates. We are animals. We are eukaryotes.

:)

[Mortison77577]

But are we sailback pelycosaurs?

[NavinJohnson90]

@bdf2718

We are life. We are proteins. We are amino acids. We are atoms. We are hadrons. We are leptons. We are quarks.

What the hell are we?

[justforflag2]

Just because going deeper into categorization makes mroe groups, it doesn't mean that you must be one group and that's it.

[bdsf1]

@bdf2718

We are GODs

[ecristiano18]

Why do not we see today and monkeys evolved? Why monkeys see only retarded and smart people and evolve? Why not see some people or monkeys somewhere in the middle between wild monkeys and people civilized? All monkeys have tails! Why have not we? You have to be foolish to think that man evolved from monkey. The easiest thing on earth is shown that the man does not come from monkey. Wake up people!

[ecristiano18]

Who's the monkey? I am not. Maybe you are. How pig is piglet. Chicken is chicken. Who managed to pastraze until today, through breeding, not by evolution of other animals. That man is man, created along with the rest of the world. Man has evolved mentally. He has evolved from a primitive life. In a perfect and modern life. And not evolved from other animals or monkeys. That's a huge folly.

[FedorCroCop44]

hahahaha ur dumb

[NinjaChampionKO]

Your ignorant...

[ecristiano18]

Fuking liars.....we are not monkeys.. We are people maked by God. We are specials. We are perfects... you guys are patetic..

[Raptor302]

"We are specials. We are perfects."

You sound like gollum of LOTR. Whose 'we'? Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

[ecristiano18]

@Raptor302 ok, so you sugest that you are a monkey. I dont talk with monkeys.

[Raptor302]

If you watched the video and comprehended what it said, then you would know that applies to the entire human race, me and you.  It applies to everyone whether you want to believe in it or not.

Not believing in gravity doesnt stop you from falling.

[RPR1983]

ecristiano18, he does more than "suggest" humans are monkeys he proves it.

What part of the definition of monkey given in the video do humans not meet?

[PlainsofWar]

That's right. God made us from dust. We're not worthy enough to be monkeys.

[Leehofooks]

Yeah! We're perfect because we're made of dirt! And we're so perfect God came real close to drowning all of us just 2,000 years after we were created!

[ksm871207]

animal ancestor is not clay. animal ancestor is one species. so you is liar :)

[MomoTheBellyDancer]

@ecristiano18

"We are people maked by God"

Who just happened to create us such as we can be classified as monkeys. Right.

[UnbekanntesPferd90]

I call troll. Feed at your own peril.

[mypreciouz]

0:13 goku?

[shadowq8]

That was a 10 minutes worth video of name calling.

[RPR1983]

I agree completely, as a primate I'm deeply offended at the implication I have any relation to mankind.

[Joerexia]

This comment is win.

[PachucoDesigns]

You're kidding, right?

[jujututu]

are reading from abook?? or are you just one incredably smart guy!!

[calvinhobbesliker2]

Would this mean that, since our common ancestor was an archaea, we are too?

[mafarmerga]

Hmmm. I would say no, because the latest thinking is that eukaryotes are not directly descended through modification of an archaean but rather through a chimeric untion of an archaea and a bacterium (which ultimately became the mitochondrion).

So eukaryotes are actually a "new" lineage that was produced through a symbiosis of two separate lineages coming together. A "created" kind if you will.

I can't believe creationists have not seized on this hypothesis and rejoiced!

[Mortison77577]

Still, if we're descended from chonoflagellates, if you follow this line of reasoning, we are chonoflagellates. Better solution: some paraphyletic groupings are reasonable and appropriate.

[mafarmerga]

For ease of use I agree that some paraphyly is helpful, but there is no scientific reason not to describe our species as hominid, primates, mammal, metazoa (sister to choanoflagellates), opisthokont, eukaryotes.

We may share a common ancestry with the choanoflagellates (and in fact we may be a subset of the choanoflagellates) but we may never know this for certain.

[Mortison77577]

Is there not a scientific reason to say that whatever one-celled eukaryote that we evolved from, it belongs to a different group than metaozoa despite having evolved into metazoans? Or think of a case more similiar to this one. What if it turned out that primates evolved from tree shrews. Not just things similiar to tree shrews, but things that had the features of living tree shrews. Would it make sense to say that we're a type of tree shrew?

[RPR1983]

When would it ever be appropriate to say that we weren't a member of a clad our ancestors were?

We're as much a monkey as we are a mammal and for the same reasons.

[Mortison77577]

I'm saying that membership in taxonomic groupings should not be defined in terms of clades. Membership in clades shoud be different from membership in taxonomic groupings, basically. So then we would be a member of the order Catharhine, but we would not be monkeys. I mean, what if mammals were descended from sailback pelycosaurs? Would it make sense to say that we are a type of pelycosaur? Also, species can be paraphyletic because one species can give rise to another.

[0PsycoDad0]

AronRa rocks!

He´s the most fast speaking ape; monkey; err primate NO! Hominidea family member *member XD*, homonid, ARG! hairless money, ape.. Damn!

creation of god´s imi.. Intelligent desi.... NO! DOPE! Human... or

yeah! Sentient being on earth

*sight*

[invisibletime]

i am a a frickin Monkey  5*

[stuckvanilla]

6:03 is a clip of what was probably considered pornographic by whoever flagged this video originally.

[RPR1983]

You think it was the naked baby and not the breastfeeding? I suppose you can see his johnson... but really - it's a baby.

[CallMeMrNameless]

It's much more likely that *noone* considered this the least bit pornographic.

More like someone (monkey in denial) wanted to censor this video and used cheap unfounded arguments to falsely flag this video.

[stuckvanilla]

I never said YouTube would look into this enough to make a reasonable decision. lol

[CallMeMrNameless]

Yea.

It's most likely like this: after a minimun amount of flaggings, they simply remove the video regardless of content or whether the flagging is justified.

[AllenQuatermain2de]

who's the comedian? "you're a fucking monkey mate!"

[mattyabsley]

AllenQuatermain2de - C'mon. you don't know what that is? It's Eddie Izzard. Christians love him, he's a cross dressing atheist ;-)

[AllenQuatermain2de]

well how do you expect me to know that..after all.. i'm a fucking monkey mate..:P

[mattyabsley]

AllenQuatermain2de - Stop monkeying around....

[AllenQuatermain2de]

who are you to tell me to stop monkeying? your just a fucking monkey mate

[AresEnyaliu]

I just showed this video on Yahoo answers and most people called me an idiot. Too bad most of them we're atheists.

[LilandraX]

Why? What made them think that?

[AresEnyaliu]

I wish I could give you a good answer. I asked: We did not come from monkeys we share a common ancestor? Are sure of this claim?

I think most of them did not watch the video

[AresEnyaliu]

*you*

[neonsilkworm]

You'd think we'd keep a lot of the physical pluses, like swinging agility, grip, speed, and coordination. But no, intelligence made us work smarter, not harder, so we're stuck with frail, slow, degenerating chains of genes. I guess you can't have it all.

Though if I could, I'd like wings and gills and the ability to hibernate for long periods of time.

[Gesmehod]

You know those infomercials for some do-it-all tool, like a wrench that can fit on any socket or a gizmo that can chop any vegetable? Notice how they always show the dude throwing away all his old tools, because he doesn't need them anymore.

That's the human brain! For 6.5 million easy payments of $19.95, you too can make fire, stone tools, and clothing, and wave goodbye to your apish hair, muscular jaw and massive pecs forever!

[RPR1983]

I want to sympathize with everyone who balks at the obvious fact that we're monkeys.

Being sharks, or wolves, or birds would be totally sweet - of course it would mean giving up the ability to transcend our physiology that our grabbers and blank slate styled brain give us.

[NotTooObvious]

you've never seen Kurt Thomas

[SurfingWithTheCowboy]

Once again kudos for AronRa for another outstanding video...

BTW, don't jokes sound a lot funnier if you have such a cool accent like that? hahaha.

"...and he (Darwin) wrote a book called 'You Are a Fucking Monkey, Mate'..." hahahahaha, classic!

[ngarbo00]

AronRa is the man. period.  fighting him is like debating Christopher Hitchens...it doesn't matter how hard you bang your head against a brick wall, you can't beat it.

[StevoDog21]

Hey, Hey- We're the Monkeys!

[blindvoyager]

are there really snakes with leggs? Please explain!

[LilandraX]

Pythons and boas have remnants of hind legs called claspers. Creationists argue that they are used in reproduction and not really vestigial.

4 legged snake fossils have been discovered that date from 95 million years ago.

[artyfarty2]

"A must see for all monkeys and monkeys in denial."

He he, I like that

[SpeakerForrTheDead]

That's the point...

We ARE cool monkeys.

Just... you know, w/out the tail.

BTW, LilandraX:

is this an installment of the "Foundational Fallacies" series?

[LilandraX]

No, he finished the Foundational Falsehood series on part 15.

This video was originally posted by Aronra under the title "Turns out we really are monkeys".

It was flagged and removed for a "Terms of Use" violation for a breast feeding scene. He was making the fact that monkeys all have 2 pectoral mammae.

Youtube removed it without consideration automatically. So, I uploaded it for him here.

[burnhippiesforfuel]

thanx. i love showing people this video.

[Aaberg123]

What's the stand-up show called from which clips was taken?

[LilandraX]

It is comedian Eddie Izzard.

[ZarlanTheGreen]

Thanks for the mirror.

The fact, that I had to go find one, is sad and ridiculous.

[andy765gtr]

this is a good video, even if it made my brain hurt trying to keep up with the barage of info lol. so basically, all apes (incl humans) are monkeys, but not all monkeys are apes. hence 'we', meaning 'apes', are monkeys. i dont see the problem with calling humans apes or monkeys. it just depends on how specific one wants to be.

even so, i still have issues with someone calling a chimp a 'monkey', (both derogatory and ignorant) when they would never define man even by the 'finer' group 'ape'.

[Acoustics7]

What reason could YouTube had possibly given to delete the original video? I just don't see it. It's an amazing video.

[LilandraX]

Youtube has an automated flagging system. If enough people flag a video, they don't bother to check it.

It was flagged for inappropriate content. I think for the breast feeding picture.

In reality, some cretinists can't deal with the fact that they are monkeys.

[LilandraX]

The placement of the entire stink bird family is controversial.  Perhaps, the fossil record is missing important ancestral linkages that would make the bird's bizarre digestion explainable.

[LilandraX]

"opisthocomiformes contains one family, opisthocomidae, which contains one genus, opisthocomus. its redundant

why not just call it opisthocomus? occams razor! 1*1*1*1*1=1! "

Just because the family contains one genus now doesn't mean that was always so. The family could have possessed sister clades at one point that are extinct.

What is interesting about this "stink bird" is that it ruminates. I don't think there is another bird that does this.

[TheProf1988]

''Just because the family contains one genus now doesn't mean that was always so. The family could have possessed sister clades at one point that are extinct.''

im currently trawling through the extant archosauromorphs and developing a new way to classify them (which in my opinion, makes a few corrections) BUT:

the main problem with the way I classify things is the fossil record...its a bitch. oh well :)

[LilandraX]

We were looking at pictures of it. Why is it not a paleognath? The 2 wing claws make that hard to understand.

Also, how could a feature like rumination appear in and be limited to one genus of birds? It seems like it would take more time than that to develop.

[TheProf1988]

I can think of two possibilities;

a) it is extremely plesiomorphic and branched off before the ratites (and the DNA studies are being thrown off by long branch attraction or similar)

b) it is extremely derived. (now this may seem counter intuitive given its possession of a claw, however- ratites are paraphyletic to tinamous- this means that flight was lost...and then regained. The same could be possible for its claw.

I will read up on rumination

[LilandraX]

Would it change the universe if no one ever figured out that we are primates or that the Sun is the center of the Solar System?

Sure scientists like Linneaus observe what nature is doing. But really the fact they we are primates has nothing to do with them and what they believe.

[LilandraX]

"I wonder how I passed my evolution exam, well I minored in Biology so it's alright. I was simply stating that the idea that we are primates does not come from the evolution theory rather modern taxonomy which was founded by a Creationist."

Are you meaning to say Linneaus was the 1st to observe that we are apes? The idea itself came from him and not Darwin and other scientists?

The fact that we are primates has since been confirmed and supported by the TOE.

[ogirv101]

Us being Apes and Primates have nothing to do with evolution, cladistic classification figured through evolution and verified that we are apes, but it didn't arise from Evolutionary theory.

We are classified by Apes by a man named Linnaeus, he is the father of modern taxonomy, and he was a Creationist!

[AronRa]

"cladistic classification figured through evolution and verified that we are apes, but it didn't arise from Evolutionary theory."

Cladistics uses phylogeny. Linneaus used morphology. And not only is evolution the only theory of biodiversity that can explain this, but it has already been confirmed to be accurate genetically. So yeah, it has everything to do with evolution.

[TheProf1988]

one gripe I have with classification is that sister clades have to be of equivalent 'level'.

to me, this concept makes sense; if you have 2 similar genera they are put in a family. if you have 2 similar families they are put in an order.

but taxonomists do silly things like put the hoatzin in an order of its own.

opisthocomiformes contains one family, opisthocomidae, which contains one genus, opisthocomus. its redundant

why not just call it opisthocomus? occams razor! 1*1*1*1*1=1!

[Fencesandwind0ws]

As AronRa said, cladistics is explictly an evolutionary classification. Linnaeus founded modern classification, but we've moved on more than a little in the last 300 years.

You are probably thinking of phenetics, which uses similarity in morphology and other characters. Phenetics is useful in some circumstances, but cladistics is much better at finding evolutionary relationships.

[ogirv101]

I wonder how I passed my evolution exam, well I minored in Biology so it's alright. I was simply stating that the idea that we are primates does not come from the evolution theory rather modern taxonomy which was founded by a Creationist.

[LilandraX]

"cool im just trying to figure out this fish to mammal transition. and i did watch all of your videos. They are great. "

Fish to mammal have many intermediate species. Even saying Fish->Amphibian->Reptile->Mamm­al.

ignores a lot of important transitional species.

Look at Aron's 10th Foundational Falsehood for a more detailed explanation.

[LilandraX]

I agree the Latin names are more useful scientifically.

However, for educational purposes of non-science majors, the word monkey has more recognizeability in English speaking countries at least.

Can you imagine "Turns out we are Haplorrhini!" would mean to most people?

[Fencesandwind0ws]

This is just an argument for lying to children.

The answer to "Did humans evolve from monkeys?" is not "Yes", but rather "Humans are apes, and the closest relatives to apes are Old World Monkeys. Both groups evolved from the same ancestor".

Simple, and no lying.

[AronRa]

The answer to "Did humans evolve from monkeys?" is not "Yes", but rather "Humans are apes, and the closest relatives to apes are Old World Monkeys. Both groups evolved from the same ancestor".

The answer is "yes", humans are a subset of apes, which are a subset of monkeys, which are a subset of haplorhine primates, as well as placental [eutherian] mammals, amniote tetrapods, and vertebrate chordates, etc.

[AronRa]

"the closest relatives to apes are Old World Monkeys. Both groups evolved from the same ancestor"."

And that ancestor was itself an Old World monkey. If you want to keep it simple -with no lying- you can't conceal that fact.

[Fencesandwind0ws]

The ancestor was a Catarrhine. You say tomayto, I say tomarto.

You'd best go hammer on the doors of the International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature.

[antiantiantifahool]

"The ancestor was a Catarrhine."

Not a contradiction. Catarrhine includes Old World Monkeys, so it is still possible that AronRa was right in saying their ancestor was itself an old world monkey.

[AronRa]

"You'd best go hammer on the doors of the International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature."

These would be the very people who declared Aegyptopithecus a Catarrhine, a Propliopith "monkey", and a probable ancestor of all Hominoidea. So they already know apes descended from monkeys, and that the term "Old World monkey" doesn't only apply to Cercopithecoidea anymore.

[ericpao81]

So what class did old world monkeys come from. I saw a display in the museum in springlfield massachuesets that shows a Dinosaur , its name started with "D" i dont remember. Anyway it showed it evolutionary path and looked eventually like a small monkey/rat lookin thing? I dont know alot about this subject. I just wanna know if we are apes that came from monkeys what were the monkeys before hand?

[AronRa]

"So what class did old world monkeys come from."

Anthropoidea, also known as 'Simiiformes', another word for "monkeys".

"I just wanna know if we are apes that came from monkeys what were the monkeys before hand?"

Watch the video again because I explained this there -with the reference to the "Dawn monkey", Eosimias. Before that, we probably looked very like the first creature shown at the beginning of this video. Lemurs are a karyotype of the most basal primates known.

[ericpao81]

yeah but before that. going way back.

[AronRa]

"I saw a display in the museum in springlfield massachuesets that shows a Dinosaur , its name started with "D" i dont remember. Anyway it showed it evolutionary path and looked eventually like a small monkey/rat lookin thing? I dont know alot about this subject."

Dinosaurs descend from a lizard-looking thing, but not from anything like a "monkey-rat". I explain this more in the 10th FFoC.

[ericpao81]

no you got that backwards i was asking what was before the "monkey" form , did it look like a rat ? and what before that a sort of fish? How far back can we trace human evolution. I believe in evolution i just wanna know where our earliest ancestors cold blooded fish that evolved?

[AronRa]

"you got that backwards i was asking what was before the "monkey" form,"

That would be the lemur I mentioned before.

"did it look like a rat ?"

All placental and even marsupial mammals were once in a form more similar to that of a shrew or opposum.

"and what before that a sort of fish?"

WAY before that, but yes.

"How far back can we trace human evolution."

I suggest you watch the 10th video in my FFoC series where I explain that.

[ericpao81]

cool im just trying to figure out this fish to mammal transition. and i did watch all of your videos. They are great.

[Fencesandwind0ws]

Polyphyletic clades are not "real" - monophyletic clades arise within them, making previously monophyletic clades polyphyletic. How annoying.

Classification changes as evolution proceeds. Jawed fish were monophyletic until ~365MYA, when those pesky tetrapods evolved from the lobe-finned fish. Attention seekers.

Classification is a human attempt to reconstruct phylogenetic reality. We spot patterns, dichotomise, categorise. Yet the only real classification is a phylogenetic tree.

[TheProf1988]

''Jawed fish were monophyletic until ~365MYA''

gnathostomes are still monophyletic

'' "Reptiles" is are polyphyletic.''

'reptile' is paraphyletic (to aves)

'reptile' will only be polyphyletic if turtles branched off before synapsids

[Fencesandwind0ws]

And this mess is why I said the only reality is a phylogenetic tree. These labels are a human invention. Don't start me on whether species exist.

[AronRa]

"the only real classification is a phylogenetic tree."

You know this, and yet you're still arguing for paraphyly. Why?

[Fencesandwind0ws]

"Reptiles" is are polyphyletic. We're amniotes (synapsids & sauropsids) & synapsids (mammals and "mammal-like reptiles").

By your logic, as most sauropsids are "reptiles", sauropsids are all reptiles (including birds), & as mammal-like reptiles are "reptiles", so are mammals. Thus amniotes are reptiles - if we allow your "monkey" argument.

Monophyletic clades arise within once monophlyetic groups. We either define by exclusion or reclassify. Classification would be easy without evolution!

[LilandraX]

""Monkey" is a colloquial term for two groups of non-ape simians. "

Is "ape" not a colloquial term? Why is its usage more acceptable than monkey to you?

Why not we are hominoids not apes?

[Fencesandwind0ws]

Well done for reposting the video, but the conclusion is wrong - we're not monkeys, we're simians. "Monkey" is a colloquial term for two groups of non-ape simians.

[LilandraX]

Hi,

So, have humans and their ape cousins ceased being mammals as well?

[Fencesandwind0ws]

Mammalia is real: it is a monophyletic group.

AronRa's solution to the existence of polyphyletic groups like monkeys, reptiles or fish is wrong.

We should not include all the descendents of the most recent common ancestor a polyphyletic group within that polyphyletic group. Cladistically speaking polyphyletic labels like monkey are flawed, a fiction, and should not be used.

AronRa would say we're monkeys, reptiles and fish. He's wrong. We're simians, aminotes and gnathostomes.

[AronRa]

"AronRa would say we're monkeys, reptiles and fish."

Wrong. We're not reptiles. The word, 'reptilimorph' has been officially aligned with Diapsidae, and we were never a part of that group.

"We're simians,"

Which is Latin for 'monkey'.

"and gnathostomes."

Which means, 'jawed fish'.

[TheProf1988]

''The word, 'reptilimorph' has been officially aligned with Diapsidae, and we were never a part of that group.''

thats completelly ridiculous. what clade encompases amniotes and our near non-amniote relatives?

it used to be; reptiliomorpha = amniota + anthracosauria +seymouriamorpha + diadectomorpha.

why do people use the SAME name to describe different clades?? thats just deliberatly confusing!

[AronRa]

"what clade encompases amniotes and our near non-amniote relatives?"

Reptiliomorpha still means what it did, but but Reptilia (anapsids + diapsids) is a subset of that and a sister clade to Synapsidae

"why do people use the SAME name to describe different clades?? thats just deliberatly confusing!"

Yes it is.

[AronRa]

"We should not include all the descendents of the most recent common ancestor a polyphyletic group within that polyphyletic group."

We have no choice. To prove that, imagine you've found some seemingly primate species never before identified or described. How would you determine whether it is a monkey or not?

[Fencesandwind0ws]

I wouldn't - monkey is not a useful term. I'd use morphology to start with to give me an idea of its placing, but that can only get you so far. Then I'd sequence some genes, such as rRNA, and do phylogenetic analysis to see which clade the sample falls into.

[AronRa]

"monkey is not a useful term."

On the contrary, it is a much more useful term than using the exact same word, but in another language -just to keep people from realizing they're descended from monkeys and are still monkeys now.

[TheProf1988]

''Wrong. We're not reptiles. The word, 'reptilimorph' has been officially aligned with Diapsidae, and we were never a part of that group. ''

and the taxon 'reptiliomorph' will mean even less sense if anapsids or ichthyopterygians are found to be the sister taxon to synapsida + (core) sauropsida.

the word 'reptiliomorph' used to make sense to me. any tetrapod that looked like a reptile!

[TheProf1988]

''AronRa would say we're monkeys, reptiles and fish. He's wrong..''

we are reptiliomorphs (the scientists can bollocks off if they think otherwise) synapsids (inc. mammals) are the sister group to sauropsids ('reptiles' + birds). but that only makes sense if anapsids are sauropsids (and there is no conclusive evidence to conclude this)

we are rhipidistian fish (lunfish + tetrapods) and rhipidistians are a subset of lobe finned fish.

[brengun42]

It's supposed to be YouTube; not ThemTube.

Keep it up Aron.

[MpowerdAPE]

youtube is dying

[TheFifthApes]

Thank you for mirroring this.

To hell with censorship!

[matias2309]

Brilliant! Kudos Aron Ra!

[brmadman4455]

What is mirroring? How do you do it?

[Bueller007]

1) Paste the URL of this video into savevidDOTcom.

2) Download the vid.

3) Upload it to your own channel.

But I'm not sure if AronRa wants multiple people to mirror this (i.e. because he loses "ownership" of the vid), so I wouldn't do it unless he says it's all right.

[brmadman4455]

Thanks Bueller007, I was just curious.

[Bueller007]

Yes, thank you for mirroring this.

[LilandraX]

"Thank you for mirroring this video. Damn the censors and cowardly creationists."

You are welcome. Aron and I know each other in real life so it was no problem.

He reads the comments here, also.

[djarm67]

Will be mirroring

[Baronesa1980]

uploading a mirror right now...

stupid youtube

[Newitt888]

I glad LilandraX made a copy of this video. I am so sick of creationist censorship!

[HonestDiscussioner]

I put this up on my channel page too. It's a good video.

[DickyHertz]

Thank you for mirroring this video.  Damn the censors and cowardly creationists.