If anyone would like to understand the complexities of the Lightning hydraulic systems a bit more please take a look at the website at gatwick-aviation-museum dot co dot uk / lightning / restoration. There they have an excellent pictorial record from their own rebuild.
The Lightning is continuosly at high risk of engine bay and jet pipe bay fires. Jet pipe fires pose the additional problem of quickly burning through the control rods to the tailplane actuators. SOP in RAF times was immediate ejection as delay could prevent the pilot being able to eject due to high g forces. It would seem the ejection procedure did not operate correctly with resultant tragic consequences.
Best guess is the vapour trails are either smoke from a jetpipe bay fire or a fuel leak.
Look guys it was terrible I was there but these things need to be discussed thats how we learn. Adrian is only interested so dont gun him. Guys like Dave Stock love their job and they know and understand the risk. Blue skies and fair winds Dave.
Im a fitter and turner by trade. I specialise in pneumatics and hydraulics. Hydraulic failure does not necessarily mean you have no control. The system will have non-return and isolation valves in it to prevent complete failure. In most industrial machinery hydraulics do not receive the power directly from the pump. The pump charges a accumulator in order to prevent pulsating in the fluid and gives you a small amount of energy to utilise in the event of pump failure or breach.
agree, total hyd pump failure on the lightning was unheard of. 4 pumps at once would have to fail. more likely in this instance, that fire compromised all 3 circuit pressure lines in the aft no1 reheat bay position, from fire, allowing om15 to escape, hence the gradual decay of control and handling difficulties over minutes. Only the accumulators probably allowed it to stay airborne as long as it did, the s/b gear failed to lower too, indicating a big decay in services pressure early on.
Posting a video of the actual crash would be distasteful and the plane was just falling to the ground after a unsuccessful ejection. I think we need more footage of when he was performing at the show As a tribute to him.
Kayback said partial hydraulic failure. A 737 still had some control after one of it's engines fell off, taking hydraulic lines with it. What matters is that Dave had enough control to get his aircraft away from the crowd.
if you read carefully he says... he had partial failure, 2 of his 3 wheels came down, then he had FULL hydraulics failure..... and moved the plane away from the crowd :S :S
i can imagine what he must have felt inside that small black cockpit after his seat failed to fire :/
It's possible that he experienced full hydraulic failure as he was on approach to land. Let's leave it to the investigators to figure out what happened.
Because he aborted his display, and was on down wind when he had the full failure, IE the plane was going away from the crowd, but returning to land. He could have panicked and hit the bang seat then, he didn't. He used what control he did have, and the skill he had to keep the plane away from the crowd, away from the towns, and aimed safely into the bomb range. THEN he tried to eject.
The plane was flyable while it was stable, but planes don't stay stable. You need control to keep them in the air. Eventually the plane was getting too unstable and with his much reduced controls he couldn't keep it in the air any more.
The exact cause of the hydrualic and seat failure? I don't know. Lets see what the inspectors say.
@AdrianNtart The Lightning has no manual controls reversion, if you have full hydraulics failure the aircraft is completely uncontrollable, in fact the controls would freeze. So in that condition he would have been unable to point the aircraft in any direction. Is there an actual video of the crash sequence anywhere?
Do you have any more footage of this display? I simply admire this plane.
1pnoe 2 months ago
If anyone would like to understand the complexities of the Lightning hydraulic systems a bit more please take a look at the website at gatwick-aviation-museum dot co dot uk / lightning / restoration. There they have an excellent pictorial record from their own rebuild.
tvfilmglamdirector 1 year ago
The Lightning is continuosly at high risk of engine bay and jet pipe bay fires. Jet pipe fires pose the additional problem of quickly burning through the control rods to the tailplane actuators. SOP in RAF times was immediate ejection as delay could prevent the pilot being able to eject due to high g forces. It would seem the ejection procedure did not operate correctly with resultant tragic consequences.
Best guess is the vapour trails are either smoke from a jetpipe bay fire or a fuel leak.
TheophilusPWildbeest 2 years ago
Look guys it was terrible I was there but these things need to be discussed thats how we learn. Adrian is only interested so dont gun him. Guys like Dave Stock love their job and they know and understand the risk. Blue skies and fair winds Dave.
WayneSA85 2 years ago 6
Im a fitter and turner by trade. I specialise in pneumatics and hydraulics. Hydraulic failure does not necessarily mean you have no control. The system will have non-return and isolation valves in it to prevent complete failure. In most industrial machinery hydraulics do not receive the power directly from the pump. The pump charges a accumulator in order to prevent pulsating in the fluid and gives you a small amount of energy to utilise in the event of pump failure or breach.
WayneSA85 2 years ago
agree, total hyd pump failure on the lightning was unheard of. 4 pumps at once would have to fail. more likely in this instance, that fire compromised all 3 circuit pressure lines in the aft no1 reheat bay position, from fire, allowing om15 to escape, hence the gradual decay of control and handling difficulties over minutes. Only the accumulators probably allowed it to stay airborne as long as it did, the s/b gear failed to lower too, indicating a big decay in services pressure early on.
gtvdtm 2 years ago
Just found out about this. What a tragedy. A brave man. Condolences to his family and colleagues
daveac41 2 years ago 3
A tragedy for all involved.
I fear this will be the end for the remaining airworthy Lightnings
helimeal 2 years ago
@helimeal Let's hope not. There's one here in the U.S. getting ready for flight. I would love to see one at least once.
jpatt1000 2 years ago
Posting a video of the actual crash would be distasteful and the plane was just falling to the ground after a unsuccessful ejection. I think we need more footage of when he was performing at the show As a tribute to him.
damagecontroller 2 years ago 16
What happened was a partial hydraulic failure justa fter one of his passes, causing him to abort his display.
As he was returning to land only 2 of his 3 wheels came down (port main was stuck up) and he had a full hydraulics failure.
He moved the plane away from the crowd (sitting on the left of the only available runway) and moved into the bomb range to eject.
As the whole plane became unflyable he attempted to eject, and reported the seat malfunctioned.
I'm pretty sure he saved the crowd.
Kayback 2 years ago
what i cant understand is... if he had hydraulic failure.. how did he fly away from the crowd... :s hydraulic failure= no control of the plane
AdrianNtart 2 years ago
@AdrianNtart
Kayback said partial hydraulic failure. A 737 still had some control after one of it's engines fell off, taking hydraulic lines with it. What matters is that Dave had enough control to get his aircraft away from the crowd.
SardineG 2 years ago
if you read carefully he says... he had partial failure, 2 of his 3 wheels came down, then he had FULL hydraulics failure..... and moved the plane away from the crowd :S :S
i can imagine what he must have felt inside that small black cockpit after his seat failed to fire :/
AdrianNtart 2 years ago
@AdrianNtart
It's possible that he experienced full hydraulic failure as he was on approach to land. Let's leave it to the investigators to figure out what happened.
SardineG 2 years ago
Because he aborted his display, and was on down wind when he had the full failure, IE the plane was going away from the crowd, but returning to land. He could have panicked and hit the bang seat then, he didn't. He used what control he did have, and the skill he had to keep the plane away from the crowd, away from the towns, and aimed safely into the bomb range. THEN he tried to eject.
Kayback 2 years ago 2
The plane was flyable while it was stable, but planes don't stay stable. You need control to keep them in the air. Eventually the plane was getting too unstable and with his much reduced controls he couldn't keep it in the air any more.
The exact cause of the hydrualic and seat failure? I don't know. Lets see what the inspectors say.
Hats off to a brave man.
KBK
Kayback 2 years ago
How can you say that? Nobody could possibly comprehend how he felt in that cockpit. Show some respect.
LordFlasheart575 2 years ago
@AdrianNtart The Lightning has no manual controls reversion, if you have full hydraulics failure the aircraft is completely uncontrollable, in fact the controls would freeze. So in that condition he would have been unable to point the aircraft in any direction. Is there an actual video of the crash sequence anywhere?
WinchesterRanger 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger Yes thats what i cant understand. how he managed to steer it away, with full hyd. failure!
AdrianNtart 1 year ago
Yes, about 7minutes after the fly-past. I don't know if anyone got any footage of the actual crash. Will ask around.
SardineG 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
and it crashed soon after this? i hope some footage was recorded...
AdrianNtart 2 years ago
Why - to see a man die? You're sick!
garyswest 2 years ago
ooh get lost! & no not to see a man die!! i didnt say see his body! but to see what happened exactly!
AdrianNtart 2 years ago
You get lost Adrian - A man was trapped in the a/c so it amounts to the same thing. I'm sure you'll find one somewhere though - ghoul!
garyswest 2 years ago