The Flyer III flying this way??? imagine the Flyer I.....Now I now 14 Bis is the first airplane..sure..later Dumont made Demoiselle...wonderful plane...
I am unimpressed with the complaints of the plane being unstable. It's a replica of the Wright Brother's Flyer. Compared to what we have now, it would be incredibly unstable.
I see an aircraft that is incredibly responsive and agile for its size. That pretty well makes it "unstable" and "twitchy".
Without the first airplane, we wouldn't have what we have today. Be grateful that you get to see a piece of history in action, and admire an incredible work of beauty and art.
These men and their fantastic flying machines were called crazy, but they paved the way for the future we now know. So why is it that the innovators around us are called carzy, when it is the public who is crazy due to fear of the unknown. I miss the days of fearless adventure and headstrong individuals who knew exactly what they hoped to achieve and persued their dreams. Innovation is a leap not a step, you will either soar with the eagles or fall like Iacrus flying too close to the sun. Dream!
@RacerXGTO They DID! Remember the guy that had the idea to replicate the Gee Bee racer many years ago...a flying replica? A reportedly dangerous and extremely unstable design? Those who've flown it say it is one of the most awesome flying experiences they've ever had, in spite of it's inherant "flaws." The Wright Flyer here is an INCREDIBLE airplane...also in spite of it's well-known instability, also a fantastic experience for those fortunate to be at it's controls, in spite of it's flaws.
Further, remember that the Wrights not only built their machine, they designed it. They knew it in ways that, even this pilot with his intimate knowledge of his own machine, simply can't. A finicky sportscar, in the hands of a novice, will likely find itself face-first into a tree (and in several pieces) in short order, and yet I'd wager you'd consider them safe.
@deleteaman If you're referring to the Flyer III replica above, there are no blueprints, the Wright's original Flyer III was an on-going engineering exercise in aircraft development. The original 1905 FIII was stored away in Oct1905, then in May1908, it was shipped to Kitty Hawk and the "A" mods were applied and tested, it remained there until 1910. It was rebuilt in 1948 (with Orville's oversight) and is now on display at the "Dayton Aviation Heritage National Historical Park" in Dayton, Ohio.
@deleteaman In otherwords, when Mark Dusenberry built the above "precision" replica Wright 1905 Flyer III, he didn't need blueprints, he had the real thing to work from! In 1948, when the restoration crew rebuilt the 1905 Flyer III to museum quality, they removed all of the "A" mods Orville and the two Charlies applied in 1908 and restored it to how it was configured in Oct1905, after Wilbur flew it 24 miles over Huffman-Praire (near Simms Station) in 38 minutes during their fuel endurance test.
Throughout 1907 and the first half of 1908, the European magazines and newspapers (magazines: L'Aerophile and Les Sports, Newspapers: Le Matin, Le Journal, New York Herald Paris edition) were dominated by articles and such covering Delagrange, Bleriot, Farman, and Pelterie with their fairly successful power hops during that time. Dumont is mentioned only rarely, and then only for his failures (which were quite often). There is no evidence from the FAI, that Dumont even tried to fly in 1908.
Of the early pioneers, the most influential toward the technology of flight, were Leon Delagrange, Robert Esnault-Pelterie, Henri Farman, Louis Bleriot, and Gabriel Voisin, but only after Wilbur Wright appeared in France (1908) with the complex base technology of airfoil design for efficient lift production and their (Wright brothers) concept of "inherent instability" and the control system to go with that concept. Once they knew how, the French were quick to improve on the Wright's work.
I personally find it interesting how, even today, that there are so many people that still have this almost fanatical ideal of Santos Dumont! Of the early pioneers, specifically those with the Aero Club de France in the 1st decade of the 20th Century, Dumont was the "least" successful with HTA flight. During 1907, Dumont had failed so consistantly, he finally gave up and went back to dirigibles. This can be confirmed by reading the Le Matin, Le Journal, and the Herald newspapers from that year.
Most interesting is that over in America, the Wright State University has archived their Wright brother photo collection on the internet and they have had the world's largest collection of the Wright's personal photographs, as well as photos taken during their astonishing European flight demonstrations in '08-'09. There is a series of photos from Berlin in Jan1909, showing between 1,000,000 and 1,500,000 spectators watching Orville fly the world's only airplane at the time! Extraordinary photos!
If any of you would be interested in learning the truth about how the airplane was "actually" invented, you can, thanks to the internet, read through a long list of material. There is a massive amount of material now available for the period between 1905 and 1909, concerning aviation, by way of period newspapers, aero club minutes, FAI records, private letters, photographs, official documents, published science papers, national archives, various magazines and even in some cases, movie film.
The first person to fly was Icarus but he have go to close to the sun and his wings got melt from him. Ok, that's my imitation of one of these "foreign" guys that wanna take the credit away from our Wright boys. Pissoff you shit-stains!
It is amazing how the brothers had a showdown in France in Aug.2008 and no Replica could not perform at all. It looks like they were the only ones who could fly their Kite. Any other aviator replica flew easily with no problem. it is an OXYMORON "the Flier can't Fly"
HISTORY LESSON: The first person to build and fly a heavier-than-air machine was the New Zealander Richard Pearce who flew 9 months before The Wright Brothers. The Wright Brothers were the first people to perform what is called ‘controlled’ flight. The first person to actual build & fly a mechanised plane was Richard Pearce.
@CanterburyAtheists That was basically a glider and wasn't a machine. With that mindset you might as well say kites were the first flying apparatus and the people holding them were pilots.
@malinko35 Can you tell me where you got that info? I have done a bit of research on it and it all points to a true flight. Not very well controlled, however. He flew over a 1000 feet.
@malinko35 Not sure about what you mean by a machine. It had wings, engine, propeller, ailerons (they did not work very well), 3 wheeled landing/takeoff gear, rudder, and elevator. The prop, was poorly designed, however the engine had 15 h.p. and was a bit of clever engineering. The 2 piston engine had pistons that worked in both directions. So effectively had power going in both directions. Some think of it as effective as a 4. Seems like a machine to me.
@happy04346 I too visited the Wright Aviation Museum in Kill Devil Hills. As I stood on the field near the stone marker where the aircraft first lifted, I closed my eyes and imagined myself witnessing the event. I found smiling and chuckling as I imagined the expression of the men's faces and shouts. And now I imagine you get a great amount joy and satisfaction in flying your RC aircraft. That's awesome. I hope and pray you continue to fuel your passion. have a Happy New Year.
This video? Did Mark Dusenberry Have a control problem? He didn't seem to do anything to correct the increasing bank. (No wing twist and no rudder deflection to see).
these guys were so smart you would of thought they'd use wheels instead of skids, the only reason why i would think they didn't was the weight to lift formula
@happy04346 Actually, the reason they didn't use wheels, with their first 6 test machines, was that their initial flight tests were at Kitty Hawk (Kill Devil Hills) and the deep soft sand there made wheels a hinderance. Out at Huffman-Prairie, the rough ground also was a problem, making wheels a cumbersome and unnecessary addition. Because of the Wright's general dislike of flying, yeah I said it (people forget they were engineers and not aviators), they thought the catapult to be safer anyway.
@happy04346 You are absolutely right. What the Wright Brothers did was to use bicycle rear axles both front and back of the aircraft. Then what they did was to lay down a single launch rail (no catapult here) approximately 75 feet in length so the two axles could fit over it. The aircraft itself was steadied by two men, one on either side of it. During the actual launch, the two men balanced the aircraft via the wings while the aircraft rolled down the launch rail on those two axles.
@happy04346 (continued from last write) As BearFlight mentioned, the sand there at the time was very soft and mushy (there was no vegetation there at the time) which would have made wheels a hindrance. Oh, and lest I forget, the two axles were attached to a carrier sleigh which also supported the aircraft until lift-off. Once it lifted, aircraft and sleigh separated, leaving the aircraft to land on its skids.
@musicman88keys I visited the place last summer and saw the railroad sections that was used, a very emotional experience for me. The ground there was grassy and I wasn't thinking back to where there was no houses etc. I have followed the Wrights as long as I can remember. Now being a Design Engineer I would of put 4 15" bicycle two in tandom etc, but the sand would of been the variable that would prevent that from working as you both have stated. I too build and fly RC planes alot of fun!!!
Fuck all you assholes who are denigrating the Wrights. They were first, they kicked ass, and the rest is just sour fucking grapes. Go bitch out the folks who dropped the bomb on Hiroshima - it's far more PC but just as bullshit an argument...
The two brothers, flew in the control of three officers and their wives in a kind of hang glider he was catapulted from bera a cliff and glided Dumont in the field of Mars opposite the Eiffel Tower for hundreds of people without the aid of any ramp or catapult, took off, as the planes are up to today, took a turn on the tower a few feet off the ground and landed safely, one thing is falling with style, another is taking off and landing flight. Case closed.
The Wrights didn't start using the catapult, on their Flyer II test mule, until Oct of 1904. They had already conducted 43 test flights with their Flyer II, by the time they felt the catapult was necessary, due to the increased density altitude and low winds at Huffman-Prairie. By the time they had incrementally improved on their design, resulting in the Flyer III in 1905, the catapult was no longer necessary, but they felt is was an "eloquent" method of takeoff, nothing more!
@Shagohud The catapult that the Wrights used with their original Flyer III "A" models was merely a safety device. Wilbur took off many times in Europe in 1908 without. The catapult simply assured they got to flying speed quickly and in a straight line, nothing more. Check on Wilbur winning Ernst Archdeacon's 80m AGL award in Oct of 1908. Wilbur broke the record but Ernst said no, because of the CAT, so Wilbur simply took off again without it, set the record anyway with a big smile on his face.
my brazilian uncle is the FIRST to fly and not dumont
in 1836 he rode his horse buggy and had a wheel failure suddenly my uncle FLEW up forward 25 feet and landed without a scratch and it was witnessed by hundreds while they screamed and clapped !!
@emforty2 You know, you may be right! At least your uncle appears to have gotten to a greater altitude than Dumont did on his first couple of years of attempts!
However, F-14 is a plane. takes off with its wheels rolling. not only task we use only a catapult. The machine of the Wrights had to be catapulted. the machine Wright is not a plane. It's a glider!
@nwe037 Better check your facts my friend! The Wright Flyer III flew with or without the catapult. Over in Europe (1908), Wilbur often took off without it, it was only used as a safety device, nothing more. Check the FAI archives for when Wilbur broke the Archdeacon 80m AGL record in October of 1908. Wilbur was denied the record, because of the catapult, so Wilbur simply took off again, without the cat', and broke the record anyway.
@nwe037 Actually you're wrong, Dumont's 14bis was never capable of flight and though it did power hop a couple of times, it lacked a propeller, airfoils, or any kind of control system. Finally, in Jan 1909, Louis Bleriot helped Dumont install airfoils and a control system on his M21 Demoiselle and it flew for the first time (also was Dumont's ever first flight) on 13Feb, 1909. Unfortunately, Dumont used the Wright's Patented control system and landed in court (France) for his misdeeds.
@BearFlight Onde Dumont usou o controle dos Wright? Desde quando o Demoiselle usou torção de asas? O Demoiselle tinhas asas fixas e usava pequenos ailerons. A prova? O controle de torção dos Wright desapareceu. Tornou-se obsoleto e inadequado. O Demoiselle n° 20, 21 e 22 continuou sendo construido por muitas decadas. Atualmente muitos aviadores hobistas ainda constroi o Demoiselle. VAI TOM,AR NO CU AMERICANO FILHO DA PUTA. FUCK YOU AMERICAN LIARS.
@356butch Vai tomar no cu viado. Fuck you american liars. The history U.S.A is an lie: Thomas Edson dont invented the bulb light, real inventor is Joseph Swan (englishman). Wright dont invented aircraft real inventor is Santos Dumont. Flyer I never flew in 1903. The witness Arpheus Drinkwater undermask the farce Wright, in 1951 for to New york Times, said: Flyer I never flew in 1903, only short glided. So, 356butch...enter lie american in your anus, motherfucker.
@agente9009 Wow, you really don't like America. I would recommend doing a little more research before you start throwing accusations like those. Joseph Swan didn't invent the light bulb. There is a laundry list of people who claim to have invented the light bulb. The reality is that Edison invented one that worked for more then a couple of minutes, and set the stage for its wide acceptance. Five random people saw the first flight, there are endless notes ext ext, its a widely accepted fact.
@brentsrx7 Not my friend, I'm not enemies of the Americans ... I am an enemy of the lie. The story U.S. and a big lie. Swan invented the light bulb filament carbon and Edson plagiarized, was sued and lost the case. This story the americans does not disclose. Motherfuckers.
@brentsrx7 Five people saw the first flight of Wright? Really? Five people also saw the flight of Santa Claus and his reindeer. Ha, ha, ha, ha! Drinkwater told the New York Times in 1951 that the Flyer never flew in 1903, just glided. Drinkwater debunked the hoax Wright. See: Dozens of witnesses saw Dumont fly. You said five people? Ha, ha, ha! Pathetic, Fuck you asshole.
@agente9009 There are pictures, video, eye witnesses, ext. Why are you so angry? One angry idiot said it only glided. That doesnt diprove all the other evidence, or the telegrams that were sent before and after the launch ext. Your the asshole for being an angry douch on youtube. chill. There is more then enough evidence to prove the flight. Do you think bush was behind 9/11, or that we never landed on the moon? are you one of those idiots?
@brentsrx7 You call Drinkwater of liar, and I'm "the intolerant"? Intolerant here is you. No matter if there people uninformed. The fact is that americans accuse americans of liars. You showed this same attitude: Said that Drinkwater is a liar. What makes him a liar and not you? You two are the same shit sewage. Documentaries of U.S. that claim 11/09 and travel to the moon are grotesque farces. My country has never said this. So go fuck your mother's ass, motherfucker liar.
@agente9009 oops sorry got some bad info on line. That was video was from 1908. The fact remains. you cant glide anwhere on flat ground even with a catapult. The replica flies just fine, so there is little doubt that they didnt fly.
@brentsrx7 Are the Americans who own claim that the attack of 11/09 is the work of Bush, and the trip to the moon is a hoax. Several documentaries USA claim that. My country has never stated this in his magazine, newspaper or documentaries. In short, the Americans accuse their compatriots of liars. Look: You accused of lying Drinkwater. And Drinkwater accused Wright of liars, frauds that never flew. This proves the following: The Americans are liars motherfucker
@agente9009 Did you ever think that some people are misinformed? or have not researched into something as much as some others? There are people like that everywhere. They make documentaries spreading what they believe is true, An alternate opinion isn't necessarily a lie. Like you believe all Americans are motherfuckers, to me you sound like an intolerant undereducated bigot. But I am sure you believe that Americans are all liar wholeheartedly, I don't think you are a liar, just an idiot :)
@brentsrx7 Thanks for clarifying that USA are indeed liars. The first to declare that the attack was the work of 11/09 of Bush, were the Americans themselves. Also were the Americans themselves who said the trip to the moon is a hoax. There documentaries USA say that, but in my country documentary never said that. In short, the Americans themselves accuse the Americans of being liars. In this case it was proved that the U.S. is a country of liars stories. Fuck American penis into the anus
@brentsrx7 Hey they are just brain washed by european society to belive such things leave it to tony blair to show his belly.They would kill to be American just think about from there point of view. You live in the uk and you see the US the one your people discover just to only have that that land be far my intelligent and technically advanced. Just let them ramble they hate us we are like aliens we invent they claim. Let there blue blood flow through youtube the inbreeds. AMERICAN PRIDE!
@edwardhansen I am under the impression that everybody including my self are pretty clueless, so getting worked up about things as trivial as these seems silly. There are idiots all over the world, the one united front for humanity.
If you're going to pick nits, then surely Langley and Lilienthal deserve credit even before Dumont! Lilienthal for the first workable glider, and Langley for the first powered flight (if not the first manned flight). And, as for the Wrights, I'd think the multitudes of photos and film of their various flights-- perhaps not their first powered flight, but subsequent ones with the exact same machine --would be more than sufficient to prove their worth.
@agente9009 Then, and I will stress, right here and now, that i'm not in for a fight, nor am I trying to be disrespectful, however.... Personal opinion, and personal thoughts, are what got man off the ground, in the first instance. We are much better off listening to opinions, than not. God help us all, if we start to believe that our own opinion, or that which we are taught, is the ONLY opinion that matters. If that were the case, we'd all still be in 'Wright Fliers', to this day.
@356butch Vai tomar no cu viado. Fuck you american liars. The history U.S.A is an lie: Thomas Edson dont invented the bulb light, real inventor is Joseph Swan (englishman). Wright dont invented aircraft real inventor is Santos Dumont. Flyer I never flew in 1903. The witness Arpheus Drinkwater undermask the farce Wright, in 1951 for to New york Times, said: Flyer I never flew in 1903, only short glided. So, 356butch...enter lie american in your anus, motherfucker..
@nwe037 Should also point another error of yours, the Wright's Flyer I and Flyer III never needed a catapult either. The Wrights were engineers, not aviators, so they used the catapult as a simple safety device, it wasn't necessary for flight and Wilbur often tookoff without it. On all the Flyer IIIs they sold, the catapult wasn't included because it wasn't needed.
@nwe037 You also mentioned that Dumont's Demoiselle was the basis of current planes? Boy are you vastly wrong on that too! Dumont's Demoiselle was just a general copy of several earlier machines, Ader's 1890 "Aloe" for one, not to mention several 1905 and 1906 designs from Bleriot, Richard Pearson's 1903 machine and the list goes on and on. Santos Dumont was a very successful dirigible designer/aviator, but he contributed "ABSOLUTELY" nothing to the development or invention of the airplane!
@BearFlight the lateral control patented by Wright (see patent # 821.393) has fallen into disuse, replaced by the ailerons. The Demoiselle was a revolutionary device for its time (and is considered a precursor of ultralight). There was plagiarized by the Wrights because the system was different. regarding digibilidade, Santos-Dumont created the ailerons (14BIS) and joystick (command-hand).
@BearFlight The Wrights used a system of wing twisting at the waist and was used to direct the aircraft. Flyer does not fly. On the centenary of aviation (U.S. date) was pitiful. Many people have seen (including the president george w. bush), live presentation of the failed replica of the Wright simply not fly. Unlike what happened in Brazil where the Replica 14BIS flew and drew applause and celebration.
@nwe037 The Wrights US Patent #821,393 was NOT for wing warping, it was for the process of altering the CoF on a lateral plane. Between 1906 and 1915 the Wrights filed 37 individual lawsuits against numerous people over this, including Santos Dumont who stole the Wrights patent (even including the wing warping feature) and got sued for it. Of the 37 individual lawsuits, the Wrights won ALL 37. Rather you use ailerons, wingwarping, spoilers, they all violate the Wright's patent!
@nwe037 Actually, if they had built a "precision" replicia of Dumont's 14bis (which was actually designed and built by Gabriel Voisin and Robert Esnault-Petrie) it wouldn't flown any more than Dumont's original, which NEVER was capable of flight. There is even a film available of Dumont's power hop in November of 1906 showing it to be a complete failure! Dumont's first actual flight never occurred until 13Feb, 1909! That is a matter of record.
@nwe037 I know as a layperson, you have no understanding, nor should you, of how a flyable aircraft MUST be designed to have the ability to take off, climb, bank/turn, all under the control of the operator or pilot. Until 1908, every single experimenter in the world "believed" absolutely that only by the concept of "Inherit Stability" would an airplane work. The Wrights were alone in knowing that only with "Inherit Instability" could they be successful, turns out, the Wrights were correct!
@nwe037 Actually, the so called replica 14bis everyone had applause for only flew because they had applied much of what the Wrights had discovered in 1902. The reality is that Dumont did absolutely nothing, but he was crybaby about claiming to fly 1st, but only after 8Aug1908 you could go for a ride on the world's first airplane, with Wilbur, or you could buy one and then fly and take your friends up too. But no, Dumont was just a big crybaby about who was first when he wasn't even 10th.
@nwe037 The hip control, was only on their Flyer I and Flyer II, the 1905 Flyer III (the replica seen in the video above) used a stick for lateral cntrl. The Flyer I, flew only on 17Dec'03 & was a "proof of concept" only machine & was never intended to be used other than once. After their success on 17Dec1903 (Orville sent a telegram home talking only of the Flyer I's performance for its last flight). They still thought it would be another 2 or 3 years before they would be ready to go public.
@nwe037 If that is the video that's on here, the 14BIS replica is using a modern two stroke engine. The power to weight ratio would be vastly different from the original.
@arnold02000 Also something else, the 14bis replica has modern lift producing airfoils and a modern propeller. The original 14bis used flat wings, with cloth streched over a square bamboo frame. The "propeller" used by Dumont was just a long wood stick with boat oar shaped fans on each end (tested at only 19% efficient in power conversion). One of the Wright's original Flyer I propellers was tested at the AMES/NASA test center in California and was found to be 86% efficient at power conversion.
Flyer is a glider where a motor was added. However if the engine fails to make the Flyer take off and and so little to keep him in the air, the engine itself become an extra Weight. Flyer is a project for faulty plane.
@nwe037 Rather you speaking of Dynamic Flight or Soaring Flight, they are both the same, the only difference is one carries its own power and the other is powered by gravity. Both still have to be designed exactly the same my friend, with their airfoils designed to carry weight based on their Coefficient of Lift at the least amount of Coefficient of Drag. Until late 1909 and early 1910, Wilbur and Orville Wright were the only individuals in the world that understood that.
@nwe037 The Wright's 1902 glider was actually the world's first successful HTA, adding an engine the following year was just a formality. From the process of engineering, the Wright's 1902 glider was the world's first true airplane and EVERY single "successful" aircraft designed between 1902 and 2010 (including the US Space Shuttle) owes its ability to produce lift and fly under control to the Wright brothers and that little 1902 glider! NO ONE ELSE!
@nwe037 The proof of what I say is a matter of record. Wilbur and Orville were the sole inventors of the airplane as we know it today. Though they had published the engineering data on airfoil design in 1902 and their Flyer I had the first propeller ever (Dumont never had a propeller on ANY of his designs), it was the Wright's US Patent #821,393, issued on 22May, 1906 that locks everyone out. NO aircraft can work without using that patent, period. Even the US Space Shuttle uses that technology.
@nwe037 So say if an Aircraft with skids that is launched off an aircraft carrier is no longer an aircraft. I would go ask some folks in the north if their ski planes are gliders, you sound ridiculous. Nothing can glide, land, take off again multiple times in one run and be a glider. Why can't people just accept the obvious. It flew under its own power, it flew over flat ground.
Popular history has it that the Wright Brothers at Kitty Hawk were the first to fly [a heavier-than-air craft], but this is not true! The first flight was by a twenty-five year old New Zealander, Richard Pearse on March 31, 1902, at Waitohi, New Zealand near Timaru. His first successful flight was only 4 meters high, controlled, and around 350 meters in length.
@1955thekeeper , Yeah wright, another conspiracy theory to add dust to american greatest achievement. by the way, how come these wright-brothers wanna be never showed up to demostrate their invention before the wright brothers??
@1955thekeeper By your thinking, then the first to fly was Felix du Temple of France, who made his first powered flight in 1874, oh, what about Clement Ader in 1890, or Harman Maxim in 1894, or Augusta Herring in 1896, or Gustave Wieskopf in 1901? Need to correct you on a couple of things, Pearse's little machine lacked a functioning control system and it was on May 31 of 1903, not March of 1902 as you stated.
@BearFlight Simply Google the man's name and New Zealand. What is it with you and people like you? The man was a self taught back woods engineer. Before he flew his aircraft in 1902, he designed several agricultural devices for local consumption. Is it because he was not part of the Illuminati of his day and age? Formal education or not, his HTA flew first. I bet you still think that Guglielmo Marconi invented wireless radio communications as well. Now tell the truth, you do don't you?
@1955thekeeper I don't know about googling anyone, my information is from a copy of the actual 1934 newspaper interview with Richard Pearse himself. So, who's information you might think is more accurate? Richard made several flights between 1902 & 1903, but he believed his longest was on May 31, 1903 of about 3,500 feet. He didn't bother to tell anyone about it, outside of a few friends and relatives, until that interview in 1934.
@1955thekeeper The Wrights were the first to fly an HTA that answered all three of the conditions stated in 1799 by Sir George Caley of "Propulsion", "Lift", and "Control". The Wrights were the world's first "effective" aeronautical engineers that not only invented, and patented, the world's first 3-axis flight control system for the world's first machine based on "Inherit Instability", they also established the corrected formulas for determining CoL, CoD, and their relationship to Aspect Ratio.
@BearFlight Your Wrights are wrong. I still will bet money that you believe that Marconi was the first to invent wireless radio communications simply because he was the first to get notoriety for it. Just because the Wrong Bro.s got their picture in the newspaper first does not automatically make them the first in flight. R. Pearse's biography tells far more than one 1934 newspaper column. I grew up in and around flight. My Father was a check pilot for FAA as well as a Naval Aviator during WW 2
@1955thekeeper You need to understand the technology behind how an HTA works, as it is far more complicated than any layperson can understand. There are known to have been no less than 8 people to have gotten airborne before the Wright's first flight in 1903, but it was still another 22 months of development work before they finally had a "practical" version of the world's first airplane. The date they first flew is irrelevant, until Oct 1908 (H.Farman), they had the only HTA in the world.
@1955thekeeper I might point out that the Wrights specifically kept their pictures out of the newspapers, that was until their patents had been issued in 1906. When Wilbur started his first European flight demos on Aug8, 1908, the aviation world was stunned by what these two scientist-engineers had perfected. The world had not seen anything even remotely like this before. Oh, and by the way, I have been an Aeronautical Engineer for 40+ years, including working at British Aerospace.
@BearFlight I do thank you for your civility during this entire discussion. I grew up in and around flight until I was old enough to leave home for college. My Father was a professional commercially rated pilot who flew for several corporations, was a flight instructor and a FAA flight check pilot. I have direct on hands understanding of the concepts of flight. In fact, I am shopping right now for plans to eventually build my own ultra light. Wish me luck.
@1955thekeeper Sounds great. I was cleaning out some items from an old storage facility and found some photos of when I first solo'd in 1966! Got my PPL in March of 1967. So good luck on building your ultra-light.
I have been studying and researching the early aviation pioneers for a couple of decades and the distortions and misinformation about who did what and when is still rather prevelant, even now some 100 years later. Today, most individuals are more concerned about dates, but the reality is that the technical expertise of the Wrights and what they accomplished has too long been overshadowed by overtly nationalistic individuals, promoting one person over another based on a date.
Something that I really loathe about the Wright Brothers was their attitude. They refused all the several challenges for flighting in publicly in Europe in 1907. Then they went to Europe in 1908, made their first public flights, overcame the other guys' public flights and said that their plane was already flying that long some years before.
@mrcdutra The Wrights NEVER patented the glider, but their US Patent #821,393 (issued 22May, 1906) did cover the world's first 3-axis control system that ALL aircraft required to function correctly, right up to and including the US Space Shuttle. The Wrights were scientist-engineers and they simply were not aviators and providing public stunt flights were not something they did. Wilbur's 24 mile test flight on 5Oct,1905 was witnessed by nearly 1,100 people though.
@mrcdutra The Wrights simply didn't care about stunt flying, they were scientist-engineers that by May of 1906, were issued the most important patent in aviation history (US Patent #821,393), which was NOT for a glider, but was for the control system that they had developed. Their 1st production 1905 Flyer III "A" arrived in France in July of 1907, but they simply wouldn't not show it until their European use fee licenses had been sold. Wilbur came back in 1908 and then flew it.
@BearFlight See here the glider patent: santos-dumont . net images patente . gif.
There the glider is called "flying machine".
What's the name of the witnesses? Why did they not film it?
If you invent an electric resistance, you can get from it a lamp or an electric oven. Who is the inventor of the lamp, who is the inventor of the electric oven and who is the inventor of the electric resistance?
The Wright brothers did not invent the airplane as it is. Santos Dumont did it.
@LesCrapio Actually, you're wrong and I and every Aeronautical Engineer in the world can and have proven it. The Wright brothers invented the airplane as we know it today, at every level. Santos Dumont's first successful flight wasn't until Feb13, 1909 and then only after he had stolen the patented technology of the Wrights, which landed Dumont in (French) court for his "...balant misuse of the Wright's US Patent #821,393.."! That is a matter of record in France.
@LesCrapio The Wrights simply showed the application of their flight control system and how it functioned as installed on a glider. It's irrelevant if they showed it on a glider or a powered airplane. The Wright's US Patent #821,393, applied for in 1903 and issued on 22May, 1906, details their 3-axis control system. This combined with Wilbur's white paper on airfoil design, published worldwide in 1902, proves they invented the airplane alone, the Wrights were the sole inventor of the airplane.
@LesCrapio We've already proven beyond any doubt that the myth concerning Santos Dumont was that he never was able to fly, until he applied the technology developed and patented by the Wright brothers several years earlier. All we needed were still photos of any of the early aircraft, which we have digitized and by vector analysis show why his machines failed. Fortunately, there is a film of Dumont's Nov12, 1906 flight, which confirmed the failure of his 14bis.
@LesCrapio Dumont's first successful flight with his "Demoiselle" wasn't until 13Feb, 1909 and then only after he had illegally used the Wright's patented control system. The Wright's licensed builders in France, took Dumont to court (in France) and only after Dumont announced his retirement from all aviation activities in 1910, his name was finally removed from the lawsuit. Dumont's "Demoiselle" failed with his M16 through M20, it was his M21 that was the first to finally fly.
@LesCrapio To get your information straight, all you have to do is observe any of the photos of Dumont's Model 16 thru his Model 20 "Demoiselles" and you'll very quickly see why Dumont had failed so often. No airfoils and no control system. That was different with his Model 21 and it first flew on 13Feb, 1909 (recorded by the FAI and also shown in the British weekly magazine "Flight"). His M21 now had airfoils and the Wright's control system (even the wing warping), he should have asked though.
@LesCrapio "..Demoiselle was the first real airplane." Well, no, the Demoiselle didn't fly until 13Feb, 1909, so it was a bit late. Besides, there were only a handful ever built and anyone that build and flew one, had to pay the Wright's a "user fee" for their patented technology, which Dumont had illegally installed. The bottomline is that despite the great strides Dumont had with LTAs, he contributed "nothing" to the advancement of the HTA, "ABSOLUTELY NOTHING", so get over it.
@LesCrapio Go to "FlightGlobal dotcom", search the archives for the data base of every issue of the British magazine called "Flight". There you will find that Dumont's first flyable version of his Demoiselle didn't occur until 13Feb, 1909. I have photos of his previous versions and NONE of them were flyable, the photos are ABSOLUTE proof of their failure (no airfoils and no control system). Dumont's Demoiselle NEVER flew in 1907 and even the FAI says so.
@mrcdutra Just so you know, the Wrights patented their control system,not a glider. Soaring and dynamic aircraft require the exact same flight control system and US Patent #821,393, issued 22May, 1906 did just that. When Wil & Orv were in Paris throughout 1907, their 1st production Flyer III was with them. They didn't do stunts for awards, they were trying to sell the world's first "practical" airplane, so in 1907 while in Paris, if you wanted to see it fly, then buy one and fly it yourself.
@mrcdutra The Wrights were "never" interested in stunt flying, they were simply scientist-engineers that worked on and developed the foundation of "aeronautical engineering" and had developed the world's first "practical" aircraft. Their US Patent #821,393 was for their "control system", the fact they happen to show its operation on a glider is irrelevant. The aircraft used in 1908 at LeMans had been sitting at La Havre, FR since July of 1907, so they didn't just pull it out of their butts.
@mrcdutra From my reading, I read that they were really nice people, and were very approachable, for goodness sake, they ran a small bike shop and did this a hobby. Just because they didn't want to display their flyer to Europe doesn't mean they had a bad attitude necessarily. Historians all agree this was the first controlled powered flying machine.
Something that I really loathe about the Wright Brothers was their attitude. They refused all the several challenges for flighting in publicly in Europe in 1907. Then they went to Europe in 1908, made their first public flights, overcame the other guys' public flights and said that their plane was already flying that long some years before.
Scientific American, April 1906, published witness accounts of the Wrights' many-miles-long flights in October 1905 at Huffman Prairie, and congratulated them for inventing the first practical aeroplane
It's Aaron Copland - probably one of the most influential American composers of the 20th century. Yeah... what a terrible way to honor an historical event in America's history with music entitled "Fanfare for the Common Man."
diogoclinger1-better check your history. Wilbur only used their catapult for safety reasons. He took off at LeMans, Paris, and out at their flight training center at Pau many times without the catapult. Look up the FAI record for the 1st to break 80mAGL, it was Wilbur and he didn't use the catapult, simply because he didn't need it.
It crashed because Santos Dumont invented the airplane
adrielvichi 1 month ago
merry chistmis
claywright60 1 month ago
Very nice and almost 100% accurate... LOOKS LIKE FUN! can i get a ticket? what are your fares?
a330ftw 1 month ago
The Flyer III flying this way??? imagine the Flyer I.....Now I now 14 Bis is the first airplane..sure..later Dumont made Demoiselle...wonderful plane...
marcoses28 2 months ago
Santos Dumont rules...
marcoses28 2 months ago 2
17 people like the Smithsonian
MrMrMcguinness 2 months ago
here's the problem with replicating the wright flyer accurately: it must always crash.
yourcathatesme 3 months ago 2
HOW THE HECK DID HE SURVIVE THAT PLANE CRASH?????!!!! MUST HAVE BEEN HIS GUIDING ANGEL!!!!!
luisc4444 3 months ago
Why this Flyer III replica doesn't fly above the "Ground effect"?
vlatu 3 months ago
@vlatu
Fear.
NoahLDiamond 3 months ago
Thank you Mr. Dusenberry. This is a glimpse of aviation history. It's like being there over 100 years ago!
DrinkThunderbird 3 months ago
I am unimpressed with the complaints of the plane being unstable. It's a replica of the Wright Brother's Flyer. Compared to what we have now, it would be incredibly unstable.
I see an aircraft that is incredibly responsive and agile for its size. That pretty well makes it "unstable" and "twitchy".
Without the first airplane, we wouldn't have what we have today. Be grateful that you get to see a piece of history in action, and admire an incredible work of beauty and art.
Love it.
alpurl 4 months ago
It's the 1905 model, wright?
MiguelSaavedraQuijon 4 months ago
okay UNSTABLE MUCH?!?! but other than that, pretty cool.
awesomeskierboy 4 months ago
I really admire the wright brothers for there invention - ( the plane ) - that changed the world for ever !!!
I REALLY RESPECT THEM . !. !
HASEMALSHAL 5 months ago
These men and their fantastic flying machines were called crazy, but they paved the way for the future we now know. So why is it that the innovators around us are called carzy, when it is the public who is crazy due to fear of the unknown. I miss the days of fearless adventure and headstrong individuals who knew exactly what they hoped to achieve and persued their dreams. Innovation is a leap not a step, you will either soar with the eagles or fall like Iacrus flying too close to the sun. Dream!
ObiTrev 5 months ago
Gee, let's make a replica of one of the top unstable motorized aircraft designs and fly it.
RacerXGTO 5 months ago
@RacerXGTO They DID! Remember the guy that had the idea to replicate the Gee Bee racer many years ago...a flying replica? A reportedly dangerous and extremely unstable design? Those who've flown it say it is one of the most awesome flying experiences they've ever had, in spite of it's inherant "flaws." The Wright Flyer here is an INCREDIBLE airplane...also in spite of it's well-known instability, also a fantastic experience for those fortunate to be at it's controls, in spite of it's flaws.
ProChoiceJesus 4 months ago
@ProChoiceJesus
Agreed.
NoahLDiamond 3 months ago
landing fail lol
fvgdfbdokd 5 months ago
i want one they dont look that expensive to make
picaticatara 5 months ago
@picaticatara me too
TheFunnyfilm 5 months ago
THE SKY IS NOT THE LIMIT!!!!
XXXPrototypex86XXX 5 months ago
That's the best Wright Flyer replica I've ever seen!
Dinosorable 6 months ago
Airplanes, telecom and Internet are Best Inventions of mankind, which made the life easy... Next is apple pie..
loganathr 6 months ago
Why was the pilot waving in celebration?? He Wrecked the Plane!!!! LOL
officerdepfife 7 months ago
@officerdepfife
I think it was more of a "I'm okay!" wave. After all, he DID dump it pretty bad. It may not have looked like much, but I bet it was scary as hell.
kittybirg 7 months ago
@officerdepfife I would venture to say, he was glad to be alive.
bluesharmonicaplaya 6 months ago
Has there been any update on Mark's condition? I read a posting on EAA dated Nov 2010 regarding him and what was then his current health condition.
warp13 7 months ago
this shit is horrible
rherculano 7 months ago
fuckin awesome!! i wanna build one!!
BlutoDaBoss21 7 months ago
this garbage flies? if today the invention of the Wrights was used the airplane would not be the way of tranporte safer than it exists.
danielmu22 7 months ago
@danielmu22 plus, it has been over a hundred years now. had to start somewhere. if they didn't do it, someone else would've. nihil novi sub sole
urplatz 7 months ago
@danielmu22
Further, remember that the Wrights not only built their machine, they designed it. They knew it in ways that, even this pilot with his intimate knowledge of his own machine, simply can't. A finicky sportscar, in the hands of a novice, will likely find itself face-first into a tree (and in several pieces) in short order, and yet I'd wager you'd consider them safe.
kittybirg 7 months ago
I wonder if how they got there plans. did you use the old blueprints of the wright brothers?
deleteaman 8 months ago
@deleteaman If you're referring to the Flyer III replica above, there are no blueprints, the Wright's original Flyer III was an on-going engineering exercise in aircraft development. The original 1905 FIII was stored away in Oct1905, then in May1908, it was shipped to Kitty Hawk and the "A" mods were applied and tested, it remained there until 1910. It was rebuilt in 1948 (with Orville's oversight) and is now on display at the "Dayton Aviation Heritage National Historical Park" in Dayton, Ohio.
BearFlight 8 months ago
@deleteaman In otherwords, when Mark Dusenberry built the above "precision" replica Wright 1905 Flyer III, he didn't need blueprints, he had the real thing to work from! In 1948, when the restoration crew rebuilt the 1905 Flyer III to museum quality, they removed all of the "A" mods Orville and the two Charlies applied in 1908 and restored it to how it was configured in Oct1905, after Wilbur flew it 24 miles over Huffman-Praire (near Simms Station) in 38 minutes during their fuel endurance test.
BearFlight 8 months ago
Throughout 1907 and the first half of 1908, the European magazines and newspapers (magazines: L'Aerophile and Les Sports, Newspapers: Le Matin, Le Journal, New York Herald Paris edition) were dominated by articles and such covering Delagrange, Bleriot, Farman, and Pelterie with their fairly successful power hops during that time. Dumont is mentioned only rarely, and then only for his failures (which were quite often). There is no evidence from the FAI, that Dumont even tried to fly in 1908.
BearFlight 8 months ago
Of the early pioneers, the most influential toward the technology of flight, were Leon Delagrange, Robert Esnault-Pelterie, Henri Farman, Louis Bleriot, and Gabriel Voisin, but only after Wilbur Wright appeared in France (1908) with the complex base technology of airfoil design for efficient lift production and their (Wright brothers) concept of "inherent instability" and the control system to go with that concept. Once they knew how, the French were quick to improve on the Wright's work.
BearFlight 8 months ago
I personally find it interesting how, even today, that there are so many people that still have this almost fanatical ideal of Santos Dumont! Of the early pioneers, specifically those with the Aero Club de France in the 1st decade of the 20th Century, Dumont was the "least" successful with HTA flight. During 1907, Dumont had failed so consistantly, he finally gave up and went back to dirigibles. This can be confirmed by reading the Le Matin, Le Journal, and the Herald newspapers from that year.
BearFlight 8 months ago
Most interesting is that over in America, the Wright State University has archived their Wright brother photo collection on the internet and they have had the world's largest collection of the Wright's personal photographs, as well as photos taken during their astonishing European flight demonstrations in '08-'09. There is a series of photos from Berlin in Jan1909, showing between 1,000,000 and 1,500,000 spectators watching Orville fly the world's only airplane at the time! Extraordinary photos!
BearFlight 8 months ago
If any of you would be interested in learning the truth about how the airplane was "actually" invented, you can, thanks to the internet, read through a long list of material. There is a massive amount of material now available for the period between 1905 and 1909, concerning aviation, by way of period newspapers, aero club minutes, FAI records, private letters, photographs, official documents, published science papers, national archives, various magazines and even in some cases, movie film.
BearFlight 8 months ago
any landing you can walk away from is a good landing.
no. that's not true at all lol. trust me...i fly airplanes
taterfamine 9 months ago
@taterfamine Indeed the lad is right, any landing you can walk away from is a good landing.
2011aviator 9 months ago
@taterfamine in the case of these aircraft which are inherently unstable its true ;)
johngibbons86 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The first person to fly was Icarus but he have go to close to the sun and his wings got melt from him. Ok, that's my imitation of one of these "foreign" guys that wanna take the credit away from our Wright boys. Pissoff you shit-stains!
GrantLeBon 10 months ago
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GrantLeBon 10 months ago
I like the Wright Brothers
cjw150 10 months ago
Amazing! Both the original and the replica flight.
Historian James Burke writes about the ever-increasing rate of
change in modern society.
My grandfather was born when Lincoln was President and lived to
read about the invention of airplanes and Amelia Earhart's flight across
the Atlantic.
Tnx 4 posting.
rockgor 10 months ago
It is amazing how the brothers had a showdown in France in Aug.2008 and no Replica could not perform at all. It looks like they were the only ones who could fly their Kite. Any other aviator replica flew easily with no problem. it is an OXYMORON "the Flier can't Fly"
Verdelufe 10 months ago
HISTORY LESSON: The first person to build and fly a heavier-than-air machine was the New Zealander Richard Pearce who flew 9 months before The Wright Brothers. The Wright Brothers were the first people to perform what is called ‘controlled’ flight. The first person to actual build & fly a mechanised plane was Richard Pearce.
CanterburyAtheists 11 months ago
@CanterburyAtheists That was basically a glider and wasn't a machine. With that mindset you might as well say kites were the first flying apparatus and the people holding them were pilots.
malinko35 10 months ago
@malinko35 Can you tell me where you got that info? I have done a bit of research on it and it all points to a true flight. Not very well controlled, however. He flew over a 1000 feet.
cashstore1 2 days ago
@cashstore1 I never said it wasn't flight, just that the glider wasn't a machine.
malinko35 2 days ago
@malinko35 Not sure about what you mean by a machine. It had wings, engine, propeller, ailerons (they did not work very well), 3 wheeled landing/takeoff gear, rudder, and elevator. The prop, was poorly designed, however the engine had 15 h.p. and was a bit of clever engineering. The 2 piston engine had pistons that worked in both directions. So effectively had power going in both directions. Some think of it as effective as a 4. Seems like a machine to me.
cashstore1 1 day ago
such a beautiful machine!
Grymbaldknight 1 year ago 2
@happy04346 I too visited the Wright Aviation Museum in Kill Devil Hills. As I stood on the field near the stone marker where the aircraft first lifted, I closed my eyes and imagined myself witnessing the event. I found smiling and chuckling as I imagined the expression of the men's faces and shouts. And now I imagine you get a great amount joy and satisfaction in flying your RC aircraft. That's awesome. I hope and pray you continue to fuel your passion. have a Happy New Year.
musicman88keys 1 year ago
Awesome, I always thought it looked like a stripped out flying single-wide mobile home.
takman17 1 year ago
Epic fail xP
but good Replica
Postbus22 1 year ago
Looking at how ramshackle that thing is it's amazing how quickly aviation took off (haha) and progressed.
It took just 66 years to go from Kitty Hawk to the Sea of Tranquility.
Bloodgod40 1 year ago
flaye ninja flaye ninja flaye ninja 0:48
jakicevic 1 year ago
This video? Did Mark Dusenberry Have a control problem? He didn't seem to do anything to correct the increasing bank. (No wing twist and no rudder deflection to see).
Glad that he was om after the landing incident.
sablatnic 1 year ago
these guys were so smart you would of thought they'd use wheels instead of skids, the only reason why i would think they didn't was the weight to lift formula
happy04346 1 year ago
@happy04346 Actually, the reason they didn't use wheels, with their first 6 test machines, was that their initial flight tests were at Kitty Hawk (Kill Devil Hills) and the deep soft sand there made wheels a hinderance. Out at Huffman-Prairie, the rough ground also was a problem, making wheels a cumbersome and unnecessary addition. Because of the Wright's general dislike of flying, yeah I said it (people forget they were engineers and not aviators), they thought the catapult to be safer anyway.
BearFlight 1 year ago
@happy04346 You are absolutely right. What the Wright Brothers did was to use bicycle rear axles both front and back of the aircraft. Then what they did was to lay down a single launch rail (no catapult here) approximately 75 feet in length so the two axles could fit over it. The aircraft itself was steadied by two men, one on either side of it. During the actual launch, the two men balanced the aircraft via the wings while the aircraft rolled down the launch rail on those two axles.
musicman88keys 1 year ago
@happy04346 (continued from last write) As BearFlight mentioned, the sand there at the time was very soft and mushy (there was no vegetation there at the time) which would have made wheels a hindrance. Oh, and lest I forget, the two axles were attached to a carrier sleigh which also supported the aircraft until lift-off. Once it lifted, aircraft and sleigh separated, leaving the aircraft to land on its skids.
musicman88keys 1 year ago
@musicman88keys I visited the place last summer and saw the railroad sections that was used, a very emotional experience for me. The ground there was grassy and I wasn't thinking back to where there was no houses etc. I have followed the Wrights as long as I can remember. Now being a Design Engineer I would of put 4 15" bicycle two in tandom etc, but the sand would of been the variable that would prevent that from working as you both have stated. I too build and fly RC planes alot of fun!!!
happy04346 1 year ago
Brilliant!
cunterzii 1 year ago
Do I want to know how low the stall speed is on that?
DanM25456 1 year ago
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Mr41432 1 year ago
Fuck all you assholes who are denigrating the Wrights. They were first, they kicked ass, and the rest is just sour fucking grapes. Go bitch out the folks who dropped the bomb on Hiroshima - it's far more PC but just as bullshit an argument...
beeroosterm 1 year ago
The two brothers, flew in the control of three officers and their wives in a kind of hang glider he was catapulted from bera a cliff and glided Dumont in the field of Mars opposite the Eiffel Tower for hundreds of people without the aid of any ramp or catapult, took off, as the planes are up to today, took a turn on the tower a few feet off the ground and landed safely, one thing is falling with style, another is taking off and landing flight. Case closed.
waguinhoplay 1 year ago
The Wrights didn't start using the catapult, on their Flyer II test mule, until Oct of 1904. They had already conducted 43 test flights with their Flyer II, by the time they felt the catapult was necessary, due to the increased density altitude and low winds at Huffman-Prairie. By the time they had incrementally improved on their design, resulting in the Flyer III in 1905, the catapult was no longer necessary, but they felt is was an "eloquent" method of takeoff, nothing more!
BearFlight 1 year ago
a great landing is when you can fly again.
d0dgeball 1 year ago
catapulted even a cow can fly ...
Shagohud 1 year ago
@Shagohud The catapult that the Wrights used with their original Flyer III "A" models was merely a safety device. Wilbur took off many times in Europe in 1908 without. The catapult simply assured they got to flying speed quickly and in a straight line, nothing more. Check on Wilbur winning Ernst Archdeacon's 80m AGL award in Oct of 1908. Wilbur broke the record but Ernst said no, because of the CAT, so Wilbur simply took off again without it, set the record anyway with a big smile on his face.
BearFlight 1 year ago
Hurra!
aenigmate 1 year ago
I met this guy. He is quite the craftsman. Unfortunately he was paralyzed from a later crash in this same plane.
embpic 1 year ago
must have been amazing to see back then
E34BMW535i 1 year ago
I WISH I WAS THERE!!!
Altair8801 1 year ago
The man's got some skill. ; )
CharlieChuno 1 year ago
my brazilian uncle is the FIRST to fly and not dumont
in 1836 he rode his horse buggy and had a wheel failure suddenly my uncle FLEW up forward 25 feet and landed without a scratch and it was witnessed by hundreds while they screamed and clapped !!
emforty2 1 year ago
@emforty2 You know, you may be right! At least your uncle appears to have gotten to a greater altitude than Dumont did on his first couple of years of attempts!
BearFlight 1 year ago
However, F-14 is a plane. takes off with its wheels rolling. not only task we use only a catapult. The machine of the Wrights had to be catapulted. the machine Wright is not a plane. It's a glider!
nwe037 1 year ago
@nwe037 Better check your facts my friend! The Wright Flyer III flew with or without the catapult. Over in Europe (1908), Wilbur often took off without it, it was only used as a safety device, nothing more. Check the FAI archives for when Wilbur broke the Archdeacon 80m AGL record in October of 1908. Wilbur was denied the record, because of the catapult, so Wilbur simply took off again, without the cat', and broke the record anyway.
BearFlight 1 year ago
Comment removed
nwe037 1 year ago
@nwe037 Actually you're wrong, Dumont's 14bis was never capable of flight and though it did power hop a couple of times, it lacked a propeller, airfoils, or any kind of control system. Finally, in Jan 1909, Louis Bleriot helped Dumont install airfoils and a control system on his M21 Demoiselle and it flew for the first time (also was Dumont's ever first flight) on 13Feb, 1909. Unfortunately, Dumont used the Wright's Patented control system and landed in court (France) for his misdeeds.
BearFlight 1 year ago
Comment removed
nwe037 1 year ago
@BearFlight Onde Dumont usou o controle dos Wright? Desde quando o Demoiselle usou torção de asas? O Demoiselle tinhas asas fixas e usava pequenos ailerons. A prova? O controle de torção dos Wright desapareceu. Tornou-se obsoleto e inadequado. O Demoiselle n° 20, 21 e 22 continuou sendo construido por muitas decadas. Atualmente muitos aviadores hobistas ainda constroi o Demoiselle. VAI TOM,AR NO CU AMERICANO FILHO DA PUTA. FUCK YOU AMERICAN LIARS.
agente9009 1 year ago
@agente9009 Jealous!!
356butch 10 months ago
@356butch Vai tomar no cu viado. Fuck you american liars. The history U.S.A is an lie: Thomas Edson dont invented the bulb light, real inventor is Joseph Swan (englishman). Wright dont invented aircraft real inventor is Santos Dumont. Flyer I never flew in 1903. The witness Arpheus Drinkwater undermask the farce Wright, in 1951 for to New york Times, said: Flyer I never flew in 1903, only short glided. So, 356butch...enter lie american in your anus, motherfucker.
agente9009 10 months ago
@agente9009 Wow, you really don't like America. I would recommend doing a little more research before you start throwing accusations like those. Joseph Swan didn't invent the light bulb. There is a laundry list of people who claim to have invented the light bulb. The reality is that Edison invented one that worked for more then a couple of minutes, and set the stage for its wide acceptance. Five random people saw the first flight, there are endless notes ext ext, its a widely accepted fact.
brentsrx7 9 months ago
@brentsrx7 Not my friend, I'm not enemies of the Americans ... I am an enemy of the lie. The story U.S. and a big lie. Swan invented the light bulb filament carbon and Edson plagiarized, was sued and lost the case. This story the americans does not disclose. Motherfuckers.
agente9009 9 months ago
@brentsrx7 Five people saw the first flight of Wright? Really? Five people also saw the flight of Santa Claus and his reindeer. Ha, ha, ha, ha! Drinkwater told the New York Times in 1951 that the Flyer never flew in 1903, just glided. Drinkwater debunked the hoax Wright. See: Dozens of witnesses saw Dumont fly. You said five people? Ha, ha, ha! Pathetic, Fuck you asshole.
agente9009 9 months ago
@agente9009 There are pictures, video, eye witnesses, ext. Why are you so angry? One angry idiot said it only glided. That doesnt diprove all the other evidence, or the telegrams that were sent before and after the launch ext. Your the asshole for being an angry douch on youtube. chill. There is more then enough evidence to prove the flight. Do you think bush was behind 9/11, or that we never landed on the moon? are you one of those idiots?
brentsrx7 9 months ago
@brentsrx7 You call Drinkwater of liar, and I'm "the intolerant"? Intolerant here is you. No matter if there people uninformed. The fact is that americans accuse americans of liars. You showed this same attitude: Said that Drinkwater is a liar. What makes him a liar and not you? You two are the same shit sewage. Documentaries of U.S. that claim 11/09 and travel to the moon are grotesque farces. My country has never said this. So go fuck your mother's ass, motherfucker liar.
agente9009 9 months ago
@agente9009 oops sorry got some bad info on line. That was video was from 1908. The fact remains. you cant glide anwhere on flat ground even with a catapult. The replica flies just fine, so there is little doubt that they didnt fly.
brentsrx7 9 months ago
@brentsrx7 Are the Americans who own claim that the attack of 11/09 is the work of Bush, and the trip to the moon is a hoax. Several documentaries USA claim that. My country has never stated this in his magazine, newspaper or documentaries. In short, the Americans accuse their compatriots of liars. Look: You accused of lying Drinkwater. And Drinkwater accused Wright of liars, frauds that never flew. This proves the following: The Americans are liars motherfucker
agente9009 9 months ago
@agente9009 Did you ever think that some people are misinformed? or have not researched into something as much as some others? There are people like that everywhere. They make documentaries spreading what they believe is true, An alternate opinion isn't necessarily a lie. Like you believe all Americans are motherfuckers, to me you sound like an intolerant undereducated bigot. But I am sure you believe that Americans are all liar wholeheartedly, I don't think you are a liar, just an idiot :)
brentsrx7 9 months ago
@brentsrx7 Thanks for clarifying that USA are indeed liars. The first to declare that the attack was the work of 11/09 of Bush, were the Americans themselves. Also were the Americans themselves who said the trip to the moon is a hoax. There documentaries USA say that, but in my country documentary never said that. In short, the Americans themselves accuse the Americans of being liars. In this case it was proved that the U.S. is a country of liars stories. Fuck American penis into the anus
agente9009 9 months ago
@brentsrx7 Hey they are just brain washed by european society to belive such things leave it to tony blair to show his belly.They would kill to be American just think about from there point of view. You live in the uk and you see the US the one your people discover just to only have that that land be far my intelligent and technically advanced. Just let them ramble they hate us we are like aliens we invent they claim. Let there blue blood flow through youtube the inbreeds. AMERICAN PRIDE!
edwardhansen 9 months ago
@edwardhansen I am under the impression that everybody including my self are pretty clueless, so getting worked up about things as trivial as these seems silly. There are idiots all over the world, the one united front for humanity.
brentsrx7 9 months ago
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kittybirg 7 months ago
@agente9009
If you're going to pick nits, then surely Langley and Lilienthal deserve credit even before Dumont! Lilienthal for the first workable glider, and Langley for the first powered flight (if not the first manned flight). And, as for the Wrights, I'd think the multitudes of photos and film of their various flights-- perhaps not their first powered flight, but subsequent ones with the exact same machine --would be more than sufficient to prove their worth.
kittybirg 7 months ago
@kittybirg That's your opinion my friend. I do not discuss personal opinions.
agente9009 7 months ago
@agente9009 Then, and I will stress, right here and now, that i'm not in for a fight, nor am I trying to be disrespectful, however.... Personal opinion, and personal thoughts, are what got man off the ground, in the first instance. We are much better off listening to opinions, than not. God help us all, if we start to believe that our own opinion, or that which we are taught, is the ONLY opinion that matters. If that were the case, we'd all still be in 'Wright Fliers', to this day.
criticalmass181 6 months ago
@criticalmass181 Opinions are personal. Can be accepted or not. But the truth is immutable, no matter what we think, the facts do not change.
agente9009 6 months ago
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@356butch Vai tomar no cu viado. Fuck you american liars. The history U.S.A is an lie: Thomas Edson dont invented the bulb light, real inventor is Joseph Swan (englishman). Wright dont invented aircraft real inventor is Santos Dumont. Flyer I never flew in 1903. The witness Arpheus Drinkwater undermask the farce Wright, in 1951 for to New york Times, said: Flyer I never flew in 1903, only short glided. So, 356butch...enter lie american in your anus, motherfucker..
agente9009 10 months ago
@agente9009 Euro Trash
smokingws6 10 months ago
@nwe037 Should also point another error of yours, the Wright's Flyer I and Flyer III never needed a catapult either. The Wrights were engineers, not aviators, so they used the catapult as a simple safety device, it wasn't necessary for flight and Wilbur often tookoff without it. On all the Flyer IIIs they sold, the catapult wasn't included because it wasn't needed.
BearFlight 1 year ago
@nwe037 You also mentioned that Dumont's Demoiselle was the basis of current planes? Boy are you vastly wrong on that too! Dumont's Demoiselle was just a general copy of several earlier machines, Ader's 1890 "Aloe" for one, not to mention several 1905 and 1906 designs from Bleriot, Richard Pearson's 1903 machine and the list goes on and on. Santos Dumont was a very successful dirigible designer/aviator, but he contributed "ABSOLUTELY" nothing to the development or invention of the airplane!
BearFlight 1 year ago
Comment removed
nwe037 1 year ago
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@BearFlight the lateral control patented by Wright (see patent # 821.393) has fallen into disuse, replaced by the ailerons. The Demoiselle was a revolutionary device for its time (and is considered a precursor of ultralight). There was plagiarized by the Wrights because the system was different. regarding digibilidade, Santos-Dumont created the ailerons (14BIS) and joystick (command-hand).
nwe037 1 year ago
@BearFlight The Wrights used a system of wing twisting at the waist and was used to direct the aircraft. Flyer does not fly. On the centenary of aviation (U.S. date) was pitiful. Many people have seen (including the president george w. bush), live presentation of the failed replica of the Wright simply not fly. Unlike what happened in Brazil where the Replica 14BIS flew and drew applause and celebration.
nwe037 1 year ago 2
@nwe037 The Wrights US Patent #821,393 was NOT for wing warping, it was for the process of altering the CoF on a lateral plane. Between 1906 and 1915 the Wrights filed 37 individual lawsuits against numerous people over this, including Santos Dumont who stole the Wrights patent (even including the wing warping feature) and got sued for it. Of the 37 individual lawsuits, the Wrights won ALL 37. Rather you use ailerons, wingwarping, spoilers, they all violate the Wright's patent!
BearFlight 1 year ago
@nwe037 Actually, if they had built a "precision" replicia of Dumont's 14bis (which was actually designed and built by Gabriel Voisin and Robert Esnault-Petrie) it wouldn't flown any more than Dumont's original, which NEVER was capable of flight. There is even a film available of Dumont's power hop in November of 1906 showing it to be a complete failure! Dumont's first actual flight never occurred until 13Feb, 1909! That is a matter of record.
BearFlight 1 year ago
@nwe037 I know as a layperson, you have no understanding, nor should you, of how a flyable aircraft MUST be designed to have the ability to take off, climb, bank/turn, all under the control of the operator or pilot. Until 1908, every single experimenter in the world "believed" absolutely that only by the concept of "Inherit Stability" would an airplane work. The Wrights were alone in knowing that only with "Inherit Instability" could they be successful, turns out, the Wrights were correct!
BearFlight 1 year ago
@nwe037 Actually, the so called replica 14bis everyone had applause for only flew because they had applied much of what the Wrights had discovered in 1902. The reality is that Dumont did absolutely nothing, but he was crybaby about claiming to fly 1st, but only after 8Aug1908 you could go for a ride on the world's first airplane, with Wilbur, or you could buy one and then fly and take your friends up too. But no, Dumont was just a big crybaby about who was first when he wasn't even 10th.
BearFlight 1 year ago
@nwe037 The hip control, was only on their Flyer I and Flyer II, the 1905 Flyer III (the replica seen in the video above) used a stick for lateral cntrl. The Flyer I, flew only on 17Dec'03 & was a "proof of concept" only machine & was never intended to be used other than once. After their success on 17Dec1903 (Orville sent a telegram home talking only of the Flyer I's performance for its last flight). They still thought it would be another 2 or 3 years before they would be ready to go public.
BearFlight 1 year ago
@nwe037 If that is the video that's on here, the 14BIS replica is using a modern two stroke engine. The power to weight ratio would be vastly different from the original.
arnold02000 1 year ago
@arnold02000 Also something else, the 14bis replica has modern lift producing airfoils and a modern propeller. The original 14bis used flat wings, with cloth streched over a square bamboo frame. The "propeller" used by Dumont was just a long wood stick with boat oar shaped fans on each end (tested at only 19% efficient in power conversion). One of the Wright's original Flyer I propellers was tested at the AMES/NASA test center in California and was found to be 86% efficient at power conversion.
BearFlight 1 year ago
@BearFlight Conclusion:
Flyer is a glider where a motor was added. However if the engine fails to make the Flyer take off and and so little to keep him in the air, the engine itself become an extra Weight. Flyer is a project for faulty plane.
nwe037 1 year ago
@nwe037 Rather you speaking of Dynamic Flight or Soaring Flight, they are both the same, the only difference is one carries its own power and the other is powered by gravity. Both still have to be designed exactly the same my friend, with their airfoils designed to carry weight based on their Coefficient of Lift at the least amount of Coefficient of Drag. Until late 1909 and early 1910, Wilbur and Orville Wright were the only individuals in the world that understood that.
BearFlight 1 year ago
@nwe037 The Wright's 1902 glider was actually the world's first successful HTA, adding an engine the following year was just a formality. From the process of engineering, the Wright's 1902 glider was the world's first true airplane and EVERY single "successful" aircraft designed between 1902 and 2010 (including the US Space Shuttle) owes its ability to produce lift and fly under control to the Wright brothers and that little 1902 glider! NO ONE ELSE!
BearFlight 1 year ago
@nwe037 The proof of what I say is a matter of record. Wilbur and Orville were the sole inventors of the airplane as we know it today. Though they had published the engineering data on airfoil design in 1902 and their Flyer I had the first propeller ever (Dumont never had a propeller on ANY of his designs), it was the Wright's US Patent #821,393, issued on 22May, 1906 that locks everyone out. NO aircraft can work without using that patent, period. Even the US Space Shuttle uses that technology.
BearFlight 1 year ago
@nwe037 So say if an Aircraft with skids that is launched off an aircraft carrier is no longer an aircraft. I would go ask some folks in the north if their ski planes are gliders, you sound ridiculous. Nothing can glide, land, take off again multiple times in one run and be a glider. Why can't people just accept the obvious. It flew under its own power, it flew over flat ground.
brentsrx7 9 months ago
you crashed
NathansBackwoods 1 year ago
sounds quite stable... shame you can never do Flyer 1 replica... no blueprints... well nice flight... shame you can't control landing...
asusp3v4x 1 year ago
neds a beeter engine
YourFriendlyMe 1 year ago
Popular history has it that the Wright Brothers at Kitty Hawk were the first to fly [a heavier-than-air craft], but this is not true! The first flight was by a twenty-five year old New Zealander, Richard Pearse on March 31, 1902, at Waitohi, New Zealand near Timaru. His first successful flight was only 4 meters high, controlled, and around 350 meters in length.
1955thekeeper 1 year ago
@1955thekeeper , Yeah wright, another conspiracy theory to add dust to american greatest achievement. by the way, how come these wright-brothers wanna be never showed up to demostrate their invention before the wright brothers??
matatan69 1 year ago
@1955thekeeper By your thinking, then the first to fly was Felix du Temple of France, who made his first powered flight in 1874, oh, what about Clement Ader in 1890, or Harman Maxim in 1894, or Augusta Herring in 1896, or Gustave Wieskopf in 1901? Need to correct you on a couple of things, Pearse's little machine lacked a functioning control system and it was on May 31 of 1903, not March of 1902 as you stated.
BearFlight 1 year ago
@BearFlight Simply Google the man's name and New Zealand. What is it with you and people like you? The man was a self taught back woods engineer. Before he flew his aircraft in 1902, he designed several agricultural devices for local consumption. Is it because he was not part of the Illuminati of his day and age? Formal education or not, his HTA flew first. I bet you still think that Guglielmo Marconi invented wireless radio communications as well. Now tell the truth, you do don't you?
1955thekeeper 1 year ago
@1955thekeeper I don't know about googling anyone, my information is from a copy of the actual 1934 newspaper interview with Richard Pearse himself. So, who's information you might think is more accurate? Richard made several flights between 1902 & 1903, but he believed his longest was on May 31, 1903 of about 3,500 feet. He didn't bother to tell anyone about it, outside of a few friends and relatives, until that interview in 1934.
BearFlight 1 year ago
@1955thekeeper The Wrights were the first to fly an HTA that answered all three of the conditions stated in 1799 by Sir George Caley of "Propulsion", "Lift", and "Control". The Wrights were the world's first "effective" aeronautical engineers that not only invented, and patented, the world's first 3-axis flight control system for the world's first machine based on "Inherit Instability", they also established the corrected formulas for determining CoL, CoD, and their relationship to Aspect Ratio.
BearFlight 1 year ago
@BearFlight Your Wrights are wrong. I still will bet money that you believe that Marconi was the first to invent wireless radio communications simply because he was the first to get notoriety for it. Just because the Wrong Bro.s got their picture in the newspaper first does not automatically make them the first in flight. R. Pearse's biography tells far more than one 1934 newspaper column. I grew up in and around flight. My Father was a check pilot for FAA as well as a Naval Aviator during WW 2
1955thekeeper 1 year ago
@1955thekeeper You need to understand the technology behind how an HTA works, as it is far more complicated than any layperson can understand. There are known to have been no less than 8 people to have gotten airborne before the Wright's first flight in 1903, but it was still another 22 months of development work before they finally had a "practical" version of the world's first airplane. The date they first flew is irrelevant, until Oct 1908 (H.Farman), they had the only HTA in the world.
BearFlight 1 year ago
@1955thekeeper I might point out that the Wrights specifically kept their pictures out of the newspapers, that was until their patents had been issued in 1906. When Wilbur started his first European flight demos on Aug8, 1908, the aviation world was stunned by what these two scientist-engineers had perfected. The world had not seen anything even remotely like this before. Oh, and by the way, I have been an Aeronautical Engineer for 40+ years, including working at British Aerospace.
BearFlight 1 year ago
@BearFlight I do thank you for your civility during this entire discussion. I grew up in and around flight until I was old enough to leave home for college. My Father was a professional commercially rated pilot who flew for several corporations, was a flight instructor and a FAA flight check pilot. I have direct on hands understanding of the concepts of flight. In fact, I am shopping right now for plans to eventually build my own ultra light. Wish me luck.
1955thekeeper 1 year ago
@1955thekeeper Sounds great. I was cleaning out some items from an old storage facility and found some photos of when I first solo'd in 1966! Got my PPL in March of 1967. So good luck on building your ultra-light.
BearFlight 1 year ago
I have been studying and researching the early aviation pioneers for a couple of decades and the distortions and misinformation about who did what and when is still rather prevelant, even now some 100 years later. Today, most individuals are more concerned about dates, but the reality is that the technical expertise of the Wrights and what they accomplished has too long been overshadowed by overtly nationalistic individuals, promoting one person over another based on a date.
BearFlight 1 year ago
Catapulted even a rock can fly
fkeffer 1 year ago
Something that I really loathe about the Wright Brothers was their attitude. They refused all the several challenges for flighting in publicly in Europe in 1907. Then they went to Europe in 1908, made their first public flights, overcame the other guys' public flights and said that their plane was already flying that long some years before.
And all that they had patented was a glider.
mrcdutra 1 year ago 3
@mrcdutra Agreed
LesCrapio 1 year ago
@mrcdutra The Wrights NEVER patented the glider, but their US Patent #821,393 (issued 22May, 1906) did cover the world's first 3-axis control system that ALL aircraft required to function correctly, right up to and including the US Space Shuttle. The Wrights were scientist-engineers and they simply were not aviators and providing public stunt flights were not something they did. Wilbur's 24 mile test flight on 5Oct,1905 was witnessed by nearly 1,100 people though.
BearFlight 1 year ago
@mrcdutra The Wrights simply didn't care about stunt flying, they were scientist-engineers that by May of 1906, were issued the most important patent in aviation history (US Patent #821,393), which was NOT for a glider, but was for the control system that they had developed. Their 1st production 1905 Flyer III "A" arrived in France in July of 1907, but they simply wouldn't not show it until their European use fee licenses had been sold. Wilbur came back in 1908 and then flew it.
BearFlight 1 year ago
@BearFlight See here the glider patent: santos-dumont . net images patente . gif.
There the glider is called "flying machine".
What's the name of the witnesses? Why did they not film it?
If you invent an electric resistance, you can get from it a lamp or an electric oven. Who is the inventor of the lamp, who is the inventor of the electric oven and who is the inventor of the electric resistance?
The Wright brothers did not invent the airplane as it is. Santos Dumont did it.
LesCrapio 1 year ago
@LesCrapio Actually, you're wrong and I and every Aeronautical Engineer in the world can and have proven it. The Wright brothers invented the airplane as we know it today, at every level. Santos Dumont's first successful flight wasn't until Feb13, 1909 and then only after he had stolen the patented technology of the Wrights, which landed Dumont in (French) court for his "...balant misuse of the Wright's US Patent #821,393.."! That is a matter of record in France.
BearFlight 1 year ago
@LesCrapio The Wrights simply showed the application of their flight control system and how it functioned as installed on a glider. It's irrelevant if they showed it on a glider or a powered airplane. The Wright's US Patent #821,393, applied for in 1903 and issued on 22May, 1906, details their 3-axis control system. This combined with Wilbur's white paper on airfoil design, published worldwide in 1902, proves they invented the airplane alone, the Wrights were the sole inventor of the airplane.
BearFlight 1 year ago
@LesCrapio We've already proven beyond any doubt that the myth concerning Santos Dumont was that he never was able to fly, until he applied the technology developed and patented by the Wright brothers several years earlier. All we needed were still photos of any of the early aircraft, which we have digitized and by vector analysis show why his machines failed. Fortunately, there is a film of Dumont's Nov12, 1906 flight, which confirmed the failure of his 14bis.
BearFlight 1 year ago
@BearFlight You know what I'm talking about.
Demoiselle's 1907 flight.
Demoiselle was the first real airplane.
LesCrapio 1 year ago
@LesCrapio Dumont's first successful flight with his "Demoiselle" wasn't until 13Feb, 1909 and then only after he had illegally used the Wright's patented control system. The Wright's licensed builders in France, took Dumont to court (in France) and only after Dumont announced his retirement from all aviation activities in 1910, his name was finally removed from the lawsuit. Dumont's "Demoiselle" failed with his M16 through M20, it was his M21 that was the first to finally fly.
BearFlight 1 year ago
@LesCrapio To get your information straight, all you have to do is observe any of the photos of Dumont's Model 16 thru his Model 20 "Demoiselles" and you'll very quickly see why Dumont had failed so often. No airfoils and no control system. That was different with his Model 21 and it first flew on 13Feb, 1909 (recorded by the FAI and also shown in the British weekly magazine "Flight"). His M21 now had airfoils and the Wright's control system (even the wing warping), he should have asked though.
BearFlight 1 year ago
@LesCrapio "..Demoiselle was the first real airplane." Well, no, the Demoiselle didn't fly until 13Feb, 1909, so it was a bit late. Besides, there were only a handful ever built and anyone that build and flew one, had to pay the Wright's a "user fee" for their patented technology, which Dumont had illegally installed. The bottomline is that despite the great strides Dumont had with LTAs, he contributed "nothing" to the advancement of the HTA, "ABSOLUTELY NOTHING", so get over it.
BearFlight 1 year ago
@BearFlight The Demoiselle flew in 1907. It had for the first time the real conception of an airplane as is today.
LesCrapio 1 year ago
@LesCrapio Go to "FlightGlobal dotcom", search the archives for the data base of every issue of the British magazine called "Flight". There you will find that Dumont's first flyable version of his Demoiselle didn't occur until 13Feb, 1909. I have photos of his previous versions and NONE of them were flyable, the photos are ABSOLUTE proof of their failure (no airfoils and no control system). Dumont's Demoiselle NEVER flew in 1907 and even the FAI says so.
BearFlight 1 year ago
@mrcdutra Just so you know, the Wrights patented their control system,not a glider. Soaring and dynamic aircraft require the exact same flight control system and US Patent #821,393, issued 22May, 1906 did just that. When Wil & Orv were in Paris throughout 1907, their 1st production Flyer III was with them. They didn't do stunts for awards, they were trying to sell the world's first "practical" airplane, so in 1907 while in Paris, if you wanted to see it fly, then buy one and fly it yourself.
BearFlight 1 year ago
@mrcdutra The Wrights were "never" interested in stunt flying, they were simply scientist-engineers that worked on and developed the foundation of "aeronautical engineering" and had developed the world's first "practical" aircraft. Their US Patent #821,393 was for their "control system", the fact they happen to show its operation on a glider is irrelevant. The aircraft used in 1908 at LeMans had been sitting at La Havre, FR since July of 1907, so they didn't just pull it out of their butts.
BearFlight 1 year ago
@mrcdutra
And the three axis control system utilized in all airplanes today.
jrusso7660 1 year ago
@mrcdutra christopher columbus all over again, huh???
zookeeper2345 11 months ago
@mrcdutra From my reading, I read that they were really nice people, and were very approachable, for goodness sake, they ran a small bike shop and did this a hobby. Just because they didn't want to display their flyer to Europe doesn't mean they had a bad attitude necessarily. Historians all agree this was the first controlled powered flying machine.
brentsrx7 9 months ago
Something that I really loathe about the Wright Brothers was their attitude. They refused all the several challenges for flighting in publicly in Europe in 1907. Then they went to Europe in 1908, made their first public flights, overcame the other guys' public flights and said that their plane was already flying that long some years before.
And all that they had patented was a glider.
mrcdutra 1 year ago
What engine does this use?
magnum9987 1 year ago
Scientific American, April 1906, published witness accounts of the Wrights' many-miles-long flights in October 1905 at Huffman Prairie, and congratulated them for inventing the first practical aeroplane
heyther3456 1 year ago
And that stupid fake engine noise. But lovely flight.
siouxsiedrag0n 1 year ago
you ruined this video with that stupid music.
MrStratbat 1 year ago
@MrStratbat
It's Aaron Copland - probably one of the most influential American composers of the 20th century. Yeah... what a terrible way to honor an historical event in America's history with music entitled "Fanfare for the Common Man."
brandoboe 1 year ago
catapult need used because wind low
diogoclinger1 1 year ago
the competition was fly by your own way
diogoclinger1 1 year ago
diogoclinger1-better check your history. Wilbur only used their catapult for safety reasons. He took off at LeMans, Paris, and out at their flight training center at Pau many times without the catapult. Look up the FAI record for the 1st to break 80mAGL, it was Wilbur and he didn't use the catapult, simply because he didn't need it.
BearFlight 1 year ago
yes, but 14 bis no depended wind low , flyer yes.
diogoclinger1 1 year ago