@ghai38 [Continuing on from my previous 'posts' about great middle-distance runners in history] back in the mid-1960s), Mr Steve Ovett (the 1980 Olympic 800m champion, who set two world records for the 1500m, and another two for the mile) and Mr Steve Cram (who held the world 1 mile record for eight years during the 1980s and '90s - i.e. for longer than any other British athlete in history, apart from the legendary 19th century star, Mr Walter George).
@ghai38 Further to the comments which I made yesterday (about the three great middle-distance runners Sebastian Coe, Hicham El Guerrouj and Noureddine Morceli) I would like to make it clear that I also have the utmost respect for Mr Herbert Elliot (the 1960 Olympic 1500m champion), Mr Peter Snell (the 1964 Olympic champion at the same distance, and the 1960 [and '64] Olympic champion at 800m, Mr Jim Ryun (who set two world records for the mile, as well as one for 1500m and one for 880 yards,
@ghai38 [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about Sebastian Coe and Hicham El Guerrouj] 1500 metres runner that he was destined to become. (He was only five years of age at the time, after all!)
In my humble opinion, the three greatest 1500 metre runners/milers of all time [in alphabetical - not meritorious - order are]: Sebastian Coe, Hicham El Guerrouj and Noureddine Morceli.
@TheEctomorph I agree with what you have put. It has to be remembered that for most of his career EL G JUST ran 1500m & most of his races were carefully orchestrated record attempts. He also ran at a time when EPO use was undetected, but that's another matter. Coe had only 3 proper attempts at the 1500 record in his whole career & the pacemaking was dreadful for all 3. His 3:31 solo run in Stockholm 81 (1stlap- 52.4!) is worth c 3:28.3 (by experts) with even pacing & drafting to the bell.
His 3:29.7 run when past his best in 86 at 30, was also badly paced (54.0 1st lap followed by a 58.0) & he ran almost all the 2nd lap with no drafting. This too is deemed to be worth low 3:28 in more favourable conditions. If he was capable of 3:28 at 30, then he surely should have run quite a bit faster between 81-84 when in his mid 20's! It has to be remembered that Coe ran far more 800s in his peak years and only about 3 1500s a year.
Had he not been ill for 82/83,and had run a few attempts with good pacing, I believe he was capable of 3:27.5. This is on the synthetic tracks of the early 80's. The mondo tracks EL G enjoyed (not to mention improved spikes) in the late 90's would probably have worked out about 0.5 - 1.0 seconds faster over 1500m. With all this taken into consideration, I don't think there would have been more than a second between them.
Take Coe from 81 and transport him into the future of the late 90's and give him a year to train using improved training schedules, faster tracks and footwear, better pacing, etc, and he would be every bit a match for EL G. What's more, he had much faster basic natural speed than EL G, which would have been an advantage when it came to championship racing.
@deano27671 You took the words right out of my mouth, sir.
Mr El Guerrouj was a 1500 metres/5000 metres runner, whereas Mr Coe was an 800m/1500m runner. Therefore, it is hardly surprising that the British runner's pure speed/sprinting ability was somewhat superior to that of the Moroccan athlete.
With regard to the possiblility that El Guerrouj was an EPO cheat, all I can say is that he never failed a drug test during the course of his lengthy and distinguished career as an international
@deano27671 [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about Mr Hicham El Guerrouj]: athlete - which lasted for at least a decade. Of course, I realize that EPO was impossible to detect when he burst on to the senior athletics scene, as it were, back in the summer of 1994 ... but it was definitely possible to test athletes for that performance-enhancing substances by the early part of the following decade. I can remember a world class 3000 metres steeplechaser being barred for using EPO during
@deano27671 [Continuing on from my previous 'posts' about Hicham El Guerrouj]: the summer of 2001. I cannot recall his name - how ignorant of me (!) - but I seem to remember that he was a Moroccan, and that he had an incredibly fast PB - which was something in the region of 7:53 seconds (albeit EPO assisted).
With regard to Hicham El Guerrouj, one cannot entirely rule out the possibility that his outstanding outdoor world records (which were set in 1998 and '99, and which remain
@deano27671 [Continuing on from my previous 'posts' about Mr Hicham El Guerrouj]: unsurpassed to this day) were achieved by illegal and unethical means - i.e. by using EPO or another banned performance-enhancing substance - but I am prepared to believe that he was a clean athlete throughout the course of his career. (In saying that, I realize, of course, that I can't possibly KNOW for certain that he was an athlete who did not cheat by using illegal performance-enchancing 'persian rugs'.)
@ghai38 [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about Sebastian Coe and Hicham El Guerrouj] brilliant, so remarkable, that many knowledgeable athletics experts and pundits stated quite unequivocally that he was the greatest 1500 metres runner ever to have set foot on God's Earth, and that NO middle distance runner in history would have been able to defeat him in that race. Of course, back in the summer of 1980, Mr El Guerrouj had not yet developed into the outstanding
@ghai38 [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about Sebastian Coe and Hicham El Guerrouj] would be a foregone conclusion, by any means. Those two great athletes were much more evenly matched - as 1500 metres runners - than the considerable [3.77 secs] discrepancy in their respective personal best times for the distance would suggest (IMHO). When Mr Coe won the first of his two Olympic titles at 1500 metres (in August 1980) his performance was so
@ghai38 [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about Sebastian Coe and Hicham El Guerrouj]: genius was born in 1956; the Moroccan superstar was born in 1974). However, if time travel was within the capabilities of the human race, and it was possible to arrange a race between Coe (when he was at the absolute peak of his powers, in August 1980) and El Guerrouj (at his peak, which was reached some 18 years later, in the summer of 1998) then I do not think that the outcome of the race would be
@whydoesmypussysmell; [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about the word "Paki"]: fact remains that the vast majority of Pakistani people do not like being referred to as "Pakis". It is therefore courteous to refrain from using that abbreviation when referring to Pakistanis (or people of Pakistani descent). In saying that, I would like to make it clear that I am not a politically correct zealot, by any means. In fact, I am very far from being that, aamof.
This was when Athletics was good. Then those arrogant, sickening, American sprinters put a generation of athletics. A golden period for British atletics the 80's..Roger Black losing his shoe was it? lol marvelous
@gards2 Sir: Actually, I think that your memory has not served you correctly in this particular instance! Back in the 1986 'Europeans' - which were held in Stuttgart, Germany - a gentleman by the name of Brian Whittle lost one of his spikes while he was competing for Great Britain in the 4 x 400 metres relay final ..... and I believe that he valiantly ran about 300 metres wearing only one shoe. As you can probably recall, Britain triumphed in that race.
I've never seen any runner with a 'kick' sprint like Seb Coe. Shame he's a bit of a t**t but his job was to run not to win personality contests. By the same token we don't expect Nelson Maldela to be a great athlete.
@dan32113 Rubbish! You are completely misinformed. Coe was the first athlete to address the IOC annual congress at Baden Baden in 1981, calling for a life ban for any athlete who tested positive for a banned substance. Synthetic EPO wasn't even invented for medical purposes until 1985 & not used by sportsmen until the early 90's, after Coe had retired. Moreover, it was Coe (along with Lord Moynihan) who produced the paper calling for blood doping to be outlawed in 85, which it was the next year.
@dan32113 Nonsense. Coe has always been an outspoken critic of drug using and blood doping. As commented on above, EPO didn't exist in Coe's time and he was the driving force in getting blood doping banned in 1986.
@dan32113 That just goes to show that your comments are based purely on rumour. EPO is completely different to blood doping. Doping is where the patient's own blood is taken from the body, allowing the patient to make up the missing blood & then put back into the patient at a later date, enabling greater oxygen uptake. EPO is a synthetic supplement injected directly into the body & has a much greater effect. Blood doping was legal until Coe got it banned in 85. EPO was first used in early 90's.
@Philcher69 EPO 1st used early 90"s? no chance. Steven Rooks the dutch polka dot jersey winner from Tour deFrance in 88, said he doped during his career, & that he used EPO from 1989 onwards!
@dan32113 F**k off! Mr [now Lord] Coe may have been a sex cheat in his personal life (as a great many of us are) but, in athletics terms, he was as clean as a whistle. ALL of Coe's glittering achievements on the running track were achieved legitimately - i.e. without the assistance of illegal, performance-enhancing substances. Your suggestion that he was "juiced" (i.e. on banned 'persian rugs') during the peak years of his career is totally false, and - I might add - in very bad taste.
@WithBACON [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about Lord Coe's attitude to illegal, performance-enhancing drugs]: anabolic steroids - and other illegal, performance-enhancing drugs - by international track and field competitiors. That was back in 1981, if my memory serves me correctly. Ever since that time, Lord Coe (bless him) has consistently maintained that athletes who deliberately cheat by using banned performance-enhancing 'persian rugs' should be dealt with severely by the IAAF.
@WithBACON I have to acknowledge that, that is a very good question. There are very few things in life which one can be 100% certain about - as the philosopher David Hume pointed out, some two and a half centuries ago !
That said, I have always strongly believed that Mr [now Lord] Sebastian Coe was a clean athlete throughout his long and distinguished career as a middle-distance runner. You may remember that he was one of the first 'big-name' athletes to publicly speak out against the use
@ATC1810 Sir: In my considered opinion, it is somewhat churlish to refer to Mr Sebastian [now Lord] Coe as a "t**t" just because you happen to disagree with his political views. As we all know, Lord Coe is a Tory, politically ...... as indeed are the vast majority of adults who were brought up in a middle-class environment by parents with right of centre political views. The fact that Mr Coe is a Conservative does not make him a bad person ... or a "t**t (as you rather crudely put it.)
coe was ajumped up little c*ck at times. Ovett by far the cooler racer...anyone who could come off the final bend , overtaking and wave at the crowd needs little introduction. I had the pleasure of seeing him win the golden mile at Crystal Palace in 1980. Coe would train twice a day, just because he knew Ovett was training every day. Still, having said that, Coe could shift and he hasnt aged anything like Ovett, who appears to drink fine wine in Australia for a living..
@bondsmanful it always amazes me how people criticise Coe on the one hand for being arrogant or jumped up, yet on the other cite what a great bloke Ovett was for waving at the crowd and his opponents before the race was finished! I think Ovett was great, but those waves were the height of arrogance in my opinion. Coe never run down his opponents. Strikes me as double standards.
@deano27671 Yes, I think that you have made a fair point there, sir. In retrospect, I don't think that Steven Ovett (God luv him) did himself any favours - during his heyday as an athlete - by purposely slowing down in the home straight and waving to his friends/relations in the crowd. For one thing, that kind of behaviour made people think that Mr O was more arrogant and conceited than he actually was. Moreover, it caused his times to be slighter slower than they would otherwise have been
@whydoesmypussysmell Maybe it's a thumbs-up to immigration! Colin Jackson, Linford Christie and Kelly Holmes< currently Mo Farrah among many legends who won medals for GB. Yeah Coe is quite dark, and so those world record times were one-quarter Indian, though it makes no difference really. Or you could say they are Great Britain's star athletes, not anywhere else's. If they're world champions they're doing their bit and more.
@wayzotoichi don"t forget Steve Cram broke 3 world records in 19 days in 1985, 1,500 2,000 & mile. Paula Radcliffe world record holder marathon. Sally Gunell broke world record winning 1993 400m hurdles world title. Triple Jump King Jonathan Edwards won more medals than any other British athlete in history, breaking world record in 1995 which he still holds, first man to jump 18metres, then very next jump break 60 foot, jumping 18.29m All these Athletes are white English, you failed to mention.
@wayzotoichi Well said, sir; well said indeed. Incidentally, it is perhaps somewhat ironic that Mr [now Lord] Coe is of Indian descent, given that, that nation is not exactly renowned for producing track and field athletes of world-class standard!!
@whydoesmypussysmell How many people are 100% "pure bred English" (whatever that means!)? 3 of his grand parents were "English", the 4th was Indian. In my eyes that makes him British. Yes he has dark hair, but his skin is hardly dark. In fact he's paler than most Italians and Spanish.
@whydoesmypussysmell And come to think of it, Cram's mum is German, so he's only half English! See what I mean, very few people have a heritage solely based in one country.
@deano27671 Well, as a matter of fact, Deano, EVERYONE has non-British (i.e foreign) ancestors ... at some point in the past. So, in a very real sense, there is no such thing as a "pure bred" Englishman. At the end of the day, all athletes - and indeed all human beings (regardless of the colour of their skin) - belong to the same race: the human race.
@whydoesmypussysmell That is an unnecessary and unpleasant comment. We all have non-British (i.e foreign) ancestors at some point in the past ...... and so, in a very real sense, there is no such thing as a "pure bred" Englishman.
I suspect that you are one of those bigoted people who refers to Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis as "Pakis".
Oh, and one more thing: Your 'service user' name [on You Tube] is not in the least bit funny or witty. It is actually quite disgusting, IMHO.
@TheEctomorph How could you & I have got off on such a wrong foot, babe? You are interested in people like Valery Borzov, Alan Wells and Pietro Mennea? Well, so am I, babe. We have more in common than you'd care to admit. Do you want to have my baby, babe? BTW, some of my best friends are Pakis. They don't mind me refering to them as Pakis, so why should you be offended? Friendship is way deeper than just a name.
@whydoesmypussysmell I was somewhat surprised to hear that some of the Pakistani people that you know do not mind being referred to as "Pakis". I must admit that I, personally, have yet to meet anyone of that nationality who doesn't have a problem - or issue (to use the currently fashionable term) - with the word "Paki". I realize, of course, that there is nothing intrinsically derogatory or offensive about that word - it is merely an abbreviation of "Pakistani", after all. However, the
@TheEctomorph Babe, it's not just my Paki friends that I called "Paki", I also frequently called one of my friends at uni "Ching chong phoeey." He did not mind either. I did not have any black friends, so I never had the need to use the "n" words. Asian people (Pakis and Ching chong phooeys) are very relaxed about these things. The only race that constantly complains about racism are the blacks. Blacks are like the Jews.They will whinge and whine till the cows come home. Pathetic.
@whydoesmypussysmell Judging by those comments, you are far more politically incorrect than me. You mention that you didn't have any black friends at uni ...... I must say that, that is hardly surf******prising, given your somewhat old-fashioned and unenlightened views towards people of different ethnicity.
@bangtwister Really?! When one considers how fit Lord Coe is for a man of his age [55], I would be more than a lil surprised if he ate traditional English 'fry-ups' on a regular basis, to be frankly honest. What is more, I very much doubt that the former (double) Olympic 1500 metres champion is a frequent smoker - from what I understand, middle-aged people (who did not smoke in their youth or early adult years) are extremely unlikely to take up this habit in their 30's, 40's or 50's.
Who is the commentator? His voice can be heard in many athletics videos. Coe was my favorite runner when I was a kid. Perhaps those golden days of British middle-distance running never come back.
Talking about length of stride is rubbish. It's all in the mind - assuming you're a decent athlete already. It's whether you WANT to win it. Otherwise the longest legged person would always win, which is patent rubbish. I hate - and don't for one moment believe in - the airheaded "scientific" approach towards sport. Please try to remember that as well as being an athlete you are also a HUMAN BEING. This happenstance entails thinking and feeling too - and not just scientific measurements.
Neither Coe or Cram were at their best this week. Ovett defo not. And Elliott got injured - surely that would have been 2 more medals, accepting Cruz winning
@scotjack good point you raise there for the athletics buffs out there. Any takers? I believe it's possible to 'fly' (before you take me for a nutcase!), and I mean really leap off the track with each forward stride, like the middle phase of triple jump, when you're running at that sheer speed.
These athletes were quite light in weight, and as a result I wouldn't be surprised if your estimate were true.
without seeming to sound too pretentious, I do remember even as a relatively mediocre competitor (as a fairly decent 800 runner during my adolescence, 2.18 aged 14), I definitely think I increased my strides forward, to quite a long length that would have depended on my momentum from running through the previous 100s of metres continuously! So I think it's arounf 5 feet you stride as a fairly tall 14 year old.. : / even at a young level, though it's obvioslt not nearly good as the champions(!)
@wayzotoichi well yes of course and even at slower speeds too, there are many instances(pictures) that have been taken where the runner appears to be hovering over the track, even some of me, its just like horses not always having a foot on the ground, thats why we have modern film and motion pictures today
@scotjack - haven't counted them, but if you look at my comment to your previous question, on the Chariots of Fire video of Coe running, I reckon Coe's stride at full cruising speed was around 7 feet. I would think Cram's was slightly longer as he was about 5 inches taller. Of course that stride might shorten in a sprint. When I get time I'll count the number of strides he took for a 100m segment then x by 4.
@scotjack Looked at some of my dvds of Coe and Cram using slow mo. Looking at a few different races, I got an average number of 46 strides per 100m for Coe and 45 for Cram, using similarly paced races. That gives Coe a stride of c. 217cm (/ 2.54 = 85.5 inches or 7'1.5". Cram's works out at 222cm ( 7' 3.5") . If you compare this as a ratio to their height, Coe's stride is marginally longer for his height: - 2.17/1.76m (Coe's height) =1.23:1
@deano27671 Very, very interesting - and quite definitive! Thanks for all the time you must have spent. I wonder if there is an ideal ratio for any particular distance. What does Usain Bolt come in at?? What was Seb's best time over 100?
@scotjack -you're welcome! I really don't know the ideal ratio per event, but obviously the longer the better when comparing athletes from the same event. Juantorena supposedly had a stride of 9 feet!! I find that hard to believe. I have a race of his somewhere, so I'll check it out . According to Coe himself, he covered 100m in 10.6 in training, but that was from a moving start. He ran last 100 in Europa Cup semi in 11.3 in 81. He also could run 200m in 21.6.
@deano27671 Roughly, I came up with 1.28:1 for Bolt. I believe he is 6'5" , or 1.9558 meters. And I hear (but am unable to confirm) that he takes only 40 strides in a 100m race (most world-class sprinters take about 45). So each stride is about 2.5 meters. He is definitely a fluke of nature...and I only hope he is clean, because it's nice to be able to appreciate such awesome feats.
@disgruntledathlete -Wow! That's a long stride. I bet if you were to do his second 100 in a 200m race, it would probably be even longer!? I must get round to checking Juantorena's too. Cheers.
@scotjack it definitely is possible... 400m and 800m are often won by the one able to run at the highest speed the longest... Since speed is frequency x length of strides the advantage of long strides is evident.
A high frequency is hard to hold for 800 - 1500m due to muscles building up lactate faster I believe. A Long stride requires power but builds up less lactate in the muscles
@123booge321 Okay it does then. Just trying (and failing) to be dramatic. These were great times for British middle distance runners. I was young (teens) when all this was happening but I remember the excitement of it. My Dad was a fantastic runner and I wasn't bad either. And I went to the same school as Coe. When this was happening I was winning cross country races. It was an IMMENSE inspiration. And Coe's turn of acceleration at the end was exciting - you wanted to copy it !
They were both the nuts!! .. Seb Coe was the inspirational as was Ovett... today 20 years on and still Sebs world record over 800m has only been just been beaten by a second..
@stanbow It hasn't been beaten by a second! It's only 0.6 better now. If Coe hadn't run wide on the curve to go past the rabbit then it would be about 0.4 secs, as Coe's run would have been about 1:41.5 without that extra couple of metres to run. Tha's an improvement of only 0.4 sec in 29 years! Put Coe from 81 on the modern mondo tracks of today and I doubt the WR would have moved on at all.
@deano27671 The rabbit dropped before 600 meters. Coe wasn't running wide at all, he was running alone.
If anything, having a rabbit makes a record less impressive. Most international 800's still are won by 1:44's or 1:45's because they're crowded start to finish. There's limits to how fast a crowd can run.
@kozmon0t Sorry mister, but you're wrong. Look at the Florence WR again. The rabbit takes Coe to 400m, then he slows down on the bend at about 420m making Coe ran wide on the outside of lane 1 for about 20m. That meant he would have run about 1 or 2 metres further than necessary, which is about 0.2. Neither Kipketer (who had a rabbit to 550m) nor Rudisha ahd to run wide in their WR runs.
This was the greatest time for England In mid distance racing. Three of the all time great all in their prime. Coe was the best then ovett and then steve cram.
That was one helluva summer, my best too, athletically. And Coe's 1984 race in LA was scintillating, especially running 3:32 and looking fresh and ANGRY at the finish! The US network (ABC, I believe) noted that he was "mad as hell" or something to that effect, with his gesture to the pressbox that he certainly was not "finished". Let us not forget Joachim Cruz's great 800m win over Coe as well. Great memories!
Thanks for posting. Great footage for an old "track head" like me. I've been running since 76 but left my speed somewhere back in the 1980's. If you see it, tell it I miss it. However, nowhere near the level of these guys.
i still remember the stinging sensation in my eyes as i got home from swimming baths with chlorine burning my eyes watching this race as an 8yo. me and my mates used to run around the block of our street pretending to be them.i always preferred steve ovett.coe was the better tho often guilty of mugging races off ovett by spending most of the time sitting on his shoulder but great memories nonetheless....hard to believe ovetts son may one day win gold....for australia....sacrilidge.ah well....
Coe proved himself the better athlete, but Ovett was almost as good. They both deserve a place in sporting history and equal admiration from those of us who enjoy our running at a less competitive level. -:)
The Africans didn't came. They were always on track. But after 1985 their competition disappeared practically overnight and they were left on track alone.
@63frankie That's because he knew he ran a poor race and that his best chance for a gold medal (at his best event) was gone; the media, of course, berated and slandered Coe. Ovett can't complain: he may have lost for the first time in years at 1500m, he still walked away (certainly) with a gold medal.
@63frankie Take a look at the 1986 European Champs; the 800m was first, Coe won, Cram was "bottomed" as Coleman put it; the 1500m came around, Coe was gracious in defeat, because he was certainly leaving with a gold medal.
in language we have freedom of expression Genius just means exceptional talent, somebody with an outstanding specific skill. "if everyone is thinking alike then someone isn`t thinking" Gen. George S. Patton (in otherwords everybody hates a smart arse)
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Wayzotoi states that Coe and Ovett each were a genius. Somebody who runs very fast is hardly a genius. Wrong terminology. These silly comments remind me of the scene in Manhattan where Diane Keaton tells Woody Allen about these people in her life who are each a genius, to which Allen replies that "maybe you should hang out with some stupid people. You might learn a thing or two."
Yeah, and Ovett emigrated to Australia, who his children will run for one day; if their potential is realised; while Coe stayed in this miserable place putting time and effort back into athletics and sport in this country! Sports Council (acquiring funds for less affluent sports in the late '80's), AAA, IAAF and getting the Olympics to London for the one and only time in any of our life times. But hey ho, Ovett was a nice guy!
You are definitely right deano, and that speaks volumes for each of these personalities - Coe's work in politics first, then campaigning and guiding the Sports Council is truly admirable, and secures him a place in organisational history of the Olympics as well as athletics history, Ovett's always wanted to compete well and did so by winning medals, also to have a quieter life away from the media spotlight,so he's not a hypocrit for raising his boy in peace and quiet away from that in Australia.
No, Ovett isn't a hypocrite. Good luck to him and his family. I just get cross when everyone makes out Ovett was so much for the people and was a real "runner's runner", while Coe was selfish and only in the sport for himself. Coe has done so much more for the sport in this country (and that's not a slight on Ovett) than Ovett has.
Yes, Sebastian Coe is not a bad person for his approach and personality, it's an example of a competitive type of person, which is part of why he was so successful. Ovett is also a different kind of personality. How they are living today is in some ways consistent with their profiles in the 80s, so neither should be criticised for not being genuine or authentic to himself.
That's pretty bad, that athletes don't get the encouragement they deserve. Joking apart, too much pay could be one reason England never seem to go further than the quarter-finals of any football tournament either (1990 and 1996 being exceptions)..A few years ago too much subsidies was actually blamed for why our athletes had no determination. Michael Johnson said that US athletes never got government these grants, so stayed hungry, not to slack off like the Brits were doing in 2004!!
one of ovetts children is in the year below me at my school, and his potential certainly has been realised. He is a great runner. long legs! . Steve came in to talk to the school the other day about his running
Wow! I hope you realised how lucky you were to listen to an athletic God!? I'm very envious. I sincerely hope his son achieves a fraction of what his dad did. It's just a shame he will (if it happens) be representing Australia. Lol
ps. btw thanks deano27671?! I've never seen middle distance running statistics so readily offered on youtube providing some seriously good reference data for the viewers.
You're welcome. I know some people might find it sad, but I have always been intrigued by stats during races. It more often than not tells us more about the athletes than just watching it or the final result.
I know what you mean about Ovett Jnr. Just goes to show it's in the genes. Luck of the draw! lol
I'm sure his dad could teach him a thing or two! I'd love to see it happen just for the spectacle of Ovett's son, it would be like a reboot of the golden era, but another chapter. When older guys (born before 1988?!) hear about how good Ovett's son is etc, to be honest it makes all the graft or achievements that some of us did (at lower levels or less consistently) as teenagers seem redundant (!)
Moscow 800m:- Ovett ~ 12.7, Coe ~ 12.6, last 200m:- Ovett ~ 25.0, Coe ~ 24.9. But while Ovett ran last bend in lane 1, Coe ran wide in lane 2, meaning he ran an extra 3.5m. That represents about 0.5sec, so his last 200m was equivalent to a 24.4.
Moscow 1500m:- Coe ~ 12.1, Ovett ~ 12.6.
When you consider that Kemal ran the last 100m in yesterday's World Championship 1500m final in 13.0, you get an idea of how special Coe & Ovett were.
Coe best 800/1000m Cram best 1200m Ovett best 2000m obviously the mile was the perfect distance. Coe`s speed endurance does it over 800&1k Cram winding it up from 400m out with that stride length and Ovett`s Strength.
I prefered Ovett because Coe was so pretty, Ovett looked more gritty. But it was Coe that one more olympic medals and who went on to remain in the limelight. But then, I like that about Ovett too.
I feel priveleged to have lived through the Golden Age of Middle-Distance running, of seeing Coe and Ovett making history. Even now, after 30 years, when I am running I sometimes catch myself - with my eyes closed - dreaming that I am Coe or Ovett.......
Anyone know what happened to the video from the 1977 World Cup 1500m ("one man's blazing speed") and also the 1978 European Championship 800m (the Olaf Beyer race)?
Both used to be on this site, but since it was revamped they've both disappeared.
Unfortunately the guy who put them on here, aLaN81 pulled his account because some American company was threatening him with copyright! I have the races myself, but don't know how to download them on here. I'm sure they'll be somewhere on the net.
Thanks for that update, sorry to hear his account was closed. If you work out a way to upload your videos, please let me know - I'm sure a 14-year-old could show you how it's done! I've looked for these races on the web but can't find any trace.
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Ovett: champion. Coe: little girl. See him on the podium? Olympic silver medallist and he looks like he's just been handed a dog turd. Now I'm not one to make false accusations, but didn't some people say that Coe was a blood doper? Not that you'd hear anything like that from me.
did you get that comment from Clive James by any chance thats the dog turd one not the doping one which you probably borrowed as well. What the matter cant think for yourself bootyarmchairsportsfancouldofbeengoodbutlikeadrinktomuch. Stick to arguing down pub after you`ve watched a bit of topical TV so you know what to say.
Clive James? What are you talking about? Coe did look a bit like a spoiled kid not getting what he wanted. Doping? Well, unfortunately we can't completely rule out anyone. Was Baumann on the juice, for example, or did someone spike his toothpaste? Possibly. That said, what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Coe passed all his doping tests, as did Ovett, so we cannot accuse them of cheating.
also i think that steve cram was better than ovett - his pbs over the four distances are also better and he has the fastest of any of them over 1500m and 1 mile. Seb is probably better though when you look at his times over 1000 and 800 - even if we never saw his full potential
I think as I get older I begin to appreciate Ovett was the more versatile athlete and his grace on the track was more than equal to his great adversary. I have a lot of awe of Ovett and Cram as well who somehow seemed the third wheel of that running rivalry, despite Cram prodigious and remarkable achievements in races. Both Steves were out of this world competitors.
wow I wish I was still 14 :( Ovett's son U11 2:17 is outstanding, which just proves genetics/background is important. I was really serious in 800/1500 metres, 2:14 was my U-13 PB which I still think is good, I'm gonna ignore that Ovett stat haha!
no mate, this is all I had :( but there's probably loads of new clips on Coe, OVett and company since I uploaded this a while back..and a few good documentaries from the time as well. Hope you find some more of what you're after. :)
What is the name of the commentator in these clips? I've heard him in a lot of these videos. I wish someone like that could call the races on American TV.
Thanks. I actually came across his name elsewhere before I saw your response. I guess he retired shortly after the 2000 Olympics without much fanfare from the BBC. He didn't sound quite as good at the end, and didn't say as much, but still pretty good in comparison. The way he rattles off the names and times on these older videos is amazing and shows he was pretty knowledgeable and puts Tom Hammond and Don Wittman to shame.
This brings back fond memories for me, I idolised both Seb Coe and Steve Ovett back then, they both dominated athletics in the 70's and it was inevitable that the question would arise about who was the best of the two, I still don't know really, I found athletics was so much more interesting back in their time then today.
I used to support Ovett, but his family in Brighton are a bunch of inbred scumbags!
SuperBisping 1 month ago
@ghai38 [Continuing on from my previous 'posts' about great middle-distance runners in history] back in the mid-1960s), Mr Steve Ovett (the 1980 Olympic 800m champion, who set two world records for the 1500m, and another two for the mile) and Mr Steve Cram (who held the world 1 mile record for eight years during the 1980s and '90s - i.e. for longer than any other British athlete in history, apart from the legendary 19th century star, Mr Walter George).
TheEctomorph 3 months ago
@ghai38 Further to the comments which I made yesterday (about the three great middle-distance runners Sebastian Coe, Hicham El Guerrouj and Noureddine Morceli) I would like to make it clear that I also have the utmost respect for Mr Herbert Elliot (the 1960 Olympic 1500m champion), Mr Peter Snell (the 1964 Olympic champion at the same distance, and the 1960 [and '64] Olympic champion at 800m, Mr Jim Ryun (who set two world records for the mile, as well as one for 1500m and one for 880 yards,
TheEctomorph 3 months ago
@ghai38 [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about Sebastian Coe and Hicham El Guerrouj] 1500 metres runner that he was destined to become. (He was only five years of age at the time, after all!)
In my humble opinion, the three greatest 1500 metre runners/milers of all time [in alphabetical - not meritorious - order are]: Sebastian Coe, Hicham El Guerrouj and Noureddine Morceli.
TheEctomorph 3 months ago
@TheEctomorph I agree with what you have put. It has to be remembered that for most of his career EL G JUST ran 1500m & most of his races were carefully orchestrated record attempts. He also ran at a time when EPO use was undetected, but that's another matter. Coe had only 3 proper attempts at the 1500 record in his whole career & the pacemaking was dreadful for all 3. His 3:31 solo run in Stockholm 81 (1stlap- 52.4!) is worth c 3:28.3 (by experts) with even pacing & drafting to the bell.
deano27671 3 months ago
His 3:29.7 run when past his best in 86 at 30, was also badly paced (54.0 1st lap followed by a 58.0) & he ran almost all the 2nd lap with no drafting. This too is deemed to be worth low 3:28 in more favourable conditions. If he was capable of 3:28 at 30, then he surely should have run quite a bit faster between 81-84 when in his mid 20's! It has to be remembered that Coe ran far more 800s in his peak years and only about 3 1500s a year.
deano27671 3 months ago
Had he not been ill for 82/83,and had run a few attempts with good pacing, I believe he was capable of 3:27.5. This is on the synthetic tracks of the early 80's. The mondo tracks EL G enjoyed (not to mention improved spikes) in the late 90's would probably have worked out about 0.5 - 1.0 seconds faster over 1500m. With all this taken into consideration, I don't think there would have been more than a second between them.
deano27671 3 months ago
Take Coe from 81 and transport him into the future of the late 90's and give him a year to train using improved training schedules, faster tracks and footwear, better pacing, etc, and he would be every bit a match for EL G. What's more, he had much faster basic natural speed than EL G, which would have been an advantage when it came to championship racing.
deano27671 3 months ago
@deano27671 You took the words right out of my mouth, sir.
Mr El Guerrouj was a 1500 metres/5000 metres runner, whereas Mr Coe was an 800m/1500m runner. Therefore, it is hardly surprising that the British runner's pure speed/sprinting ability was somewhat superior to that of the Moroccan athlete.
With regard to the possiblility that El Guerrouj was an EPO cheat, all I can say is that he never failed a drug test during the course of his lengthy and distinguished career as an international
TheEctomorph 3 months ago
@deano27671 [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about Mr Hicham El Guerrouj]: athlete - which lasted for at least a decade. Of course, I realize that EPO was impossible to detect when he burst on to the senior athletics scene, as it were, back in the summer of 1994 ... but it was definitely possible to test athletes for that performance-enhancing substances by the early part of the following decade. I can remember a world class 3000 metres steeplechaser being barred for using EPO during
TheEctomorph 3 months ago
@deano27671 [Continuing on from my previous 'posts' about Hicham El Guerrouj]: the summer of 2001. I cannot recall his name - how ignorant of me (!) - but I seem to remember that he was a Moroccan, and that he had an incredibly fast PB - which was something in the region of 7:53 seconds (albeit EPO assisted).
With regard to Hicham El Guerrouj, one cannot entirely rule out the possibility that his outstanding outdoor world records (which were set in 1998 and '99, and which remain
TheEctomorph 3 months ago
@deano27671 [Continuing on from my previous 'posts' about Mr Hicham El Guerrouj]: unsurpassed to this day) were achieved by illegal and unethical means - i.e. by using EPO or another banned performance-enhancing substance - but I am prepared to believe that he was a clean athlete throughout the course of his career. (In saying that, I realize, of course, that I can't possibly KNOW for certain that he was an athlete who did not cheat by using illegal performance-enchancing 'persian rugs'.)
TheEctomorph 3 months ago
@ghai38 [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about Sebastian Coe and Hicham El Guerrouj] brilliant, so remarkable, that many knowledgeable athletics experts and pundits stated quite unequivocally that he was the greatest 1500 metres runner ever to have set foot on God's Earth, and that NO middle distance runner in history would have been able to defeat him in that race. Of course, back in the summer of 1980, Mr El Guerrouj had not yet developed into the outstanding
TheEctomorph 3 months ago
@ghai38 [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about Sebastian Coe and Hicham El Guerrouj] would be a foregone conclusion, by any means. Those two great athletes were much more evenly matched - as 1500 metres runners - than the considerable [3.77 secs] discrepancy in their respective personal best times for the distance would suggest (IMHO). When Mr Coe won the first of his two Olympic titles at 1500 metres (in August 1980) his performance was so
TheEctomorph 3 months ago
@ghai38 [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about Sebastian Coe and Hicham El Guerrouj]: genius was born in 1956; the Moroccan superstar was born in 1974). However, if time travel was within the capabilities of the human race, and it was possible to arrange a race between Coe (when he was at the absolute peak of his powers, in August 1980) and El Guerrouj (at his peak, which was reached some 18 years later, in the summer of 1998) then I do not think that the outcome of the race would be
TheEctomorph 3 months ago
@whydoesmypussysmell; [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about the word "Paki"]: fact remains that the vast majority of Pakistani people do not like being referred to as "Pakis". It is therefore courteous to refrain from using that abbreviation when referring to Pakistanis (or people of Pakistani descent). In saying that, I would like to make it clear that I am not a politically correct zealot, by any means. In fact, I am very far from being that, aamof.
TheEctomorph 3 months ago
This was when Athletics was good. Then those arrogant, sickening, American sprinters put a generation of athletics. A golden period for British atletics the 80's..Roger Black losing his shoe was it? lol marvelous
gards2 4 months ago
@gards2 Sir: Actually, I think that your memory has not served you correctly in this particular instance! Back in the 1986 'Europeans' - which were held in Stuttgart, Germany - a gentleman by the name of Brian Whittle lost one of his spikes while he was competing for Great Britain in the 4 x 400 metres relay final ..... and I believe that he valiantly ran about 300 metres wearing only one shoe. As you can probably recall, Britain triumphed in that race.
TheEctomorph 3 months ago
Coe's form is ruthlessly efficient. Absolutely no extraneous body movement. Impeccable.
whaaaaateverful 5 months ago
I've never seen any runner with a 'kick' sprint like Seb Coe. Shame he's a bit of a t**t but his job was to run not to win personality contests. By the same token we don't expect Nelson Maldela to be a great athlete.
ATC1810 6 months ago
@ATC1810 Coe was an early advocate of EPO blood doping! there a strong chance he was juiced in his prime!
dan32113 6 months ago
@dan32113 Rubbish! You are completely misinformed. Coe was the first athlete to address the IOC annual congress at Baden Baden in 1981, calling for a life ban for any athlete who tested positive for a banned substance. Synthetic EPO wasn't even invented for medical purposes until 1985 & not used by sportsmen until the early 90's, after Coe had retired. Moreover, it was Coe (along with Lord Moynihan) who produced the paper calling for blood doping to be outlawed in 85, which it was the next year.
Philcher69 6 months ago
@dan32113 Nonsense. Coe has always been an outspoken critic of drug using and blood doping. As commented on above, EPO didn't exist in Coe's time and he was the driving force in getting blood doping banned in 1986.
deano27671 6 months ago
@deano27671 Epo did exist, blood doping has been around before Coe"s time!
dan32113 6 months ago
@dan32113 That just goes to show that your comments are based purely on rumour. EPO is completely different to blood doping. Doping is where the patient's own blood is taken from the body, allowing the patient to make up the missing blood & then put back into the patient at a later date, enabling greater oxygen uptake. EPO is a synthetic supplement injected directly into the body & has a much greater effect. Blood doping was legal until Coe got it banned in 85. EPO was first used in early 90's.
Philcher69 6 months ago
@Philcher69 EPO 1st used early 90"s? no chance. Steven Rooks the dutch polka dot jersey winner from Tour deFrance in 88, said he doped during his career, & that he used EPO from 1989 onwards!
dan32113 6 months ago
@dan32113 F**k off! Mr [now Lord] Coe may have been a sex cheat in his personal life (as a great many of us are) but, in athletics terms, he was as clean as a whistle. ALL of Coe's glittering achievements on the running track were achieved legitimately - i.e. without the assistance of illegal, performance-enhancing substances. Your suggestion that he was "juiced" (i.e. on banned 'persian rugs') during the peak years of his career is totally false, and - I might add - in very bad taste.
TheEctomorph 3 months ago
@TheEctomorph How do you know this?
WithBACON 3 months ago
Comment removed
TheEctomorph 3 months ago
@WithBACON [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about Lord Coe's attitude to illegal, performance-enhancing drugs]: anabolic steroids - and other illegal, performance-enhancing drugs - by international track and field competitiors. That was back in 1981, if my memory serves me correctly. Ever since that time, Lord Coe (bless him) has consistently maintained that athletes who deliberately cheat by using banned performance-enhancing 'persian rugs' should be dealt with severely by the IAAF.
TheEctomorph 3 months ago
@WithBACON I have to acknowledge that, that is a very good question. There are very few things in life which one can be 100% certain about - as the philosopher David Hume pointed out, some two and a half centuries ago !
That said, I have always strongly believed that Mr [now Lord] Sebastian Coe was a clean athlete throughout his long and distinguished career as a middle-distance runner. You may remember that he was one of the first 'big-name' athletes to publicly speak out against the use
TheEctomorph 3 months ago
@ATC1810 Sir: In my considered opinion, it is somewhat churlish to refer to Mr Sebastian [now Lord] Coe as a "t**t" just because you happen to disagree with his political views. As we all know, Lord Coe is a Tory, politically ...... as indeed are the vast majority of adults who were brought up in a middle-class environment by parents with right of centre political views. The fact that Mr Coe is a Conservative does not make him a bad person ... or a "t**t (as you rather crudely put it.)
TheEctomorph 3 months ago
coe was ajumped up little c*ck at times. Ovett by far the cooler racer...anyone who could come off the final bend , overtaking and wave at the crowd needs little introduction. I had the pleasure of seeing him win the golden mile at Crystal Palace in 1980. Coe would train twice a day, just because he knew Ovett was training every day. Still, having said that, Coe could shift and he hasnt aged anything like Ovett, who appears to drink fine wine in Australia for a living..
bondsmanful 6 months ago
@bondsmanful it always amazes me how people criticise Coe on the one hand for being arrogant or jumped up, yet on the other cite what a great bloke Ovett was for waving at the crowd and his opponents before the race was finished! I think Ovett was great, but those waves were the height of arrogance in my opinion. Coe never run down his opponents. Strikes me as double standards.
deano27671 6 months ago
@deano27671 Yes, I think that you have made a fair point there, sir. In retrospect, I don't think that Steven Ovett (God luv him) did himself any favours - during his heyday as an athlete - by purposely slowing down in the home straight and waving to his friends/relations in the crowd. For one thing, that kind of behaviour made people think that Mr O was more arrogant and conceited than he actually was. Moreover, it caused his times to be slighter slower than they would otherwise have been
TheEctomorph 5 months ago
6:47 - that has got to be one of the best kicks ever!
PoffyTheCucumber 7 months ago
@PoffyTheCucumber Coe's last 100m in the 15 was certainly the fastest ever recorded in a major championship at that distance.
deano27671 7 months ago
1:20 - Look at the STYLE of these guys - so easy, so fluid, so regal. Greek gods, these guys!
PoffyTheCucumber 7 months ago
Coe literally has an inch of vertical movement in his stride at most.
viperdude281 9 months ago
Man....Coe is a beast.
darong619 10 months ago
steve let him have the 1500m,hed got his gold in the 800m.watch the footage his body language says it all
joemcm1 11 months ago
HI TOM,
I DOWNLOADED THIS MOVIE FROM RIPPBAY.COM FOR FREE >:D<
VERY NICE PRINT…AND THE MOVIE IS JUST AWESOME :-)
1986sumeet 1 year ago
I've always thought Coe was a little too dark to be a pure bred Englishman, and today I realised why. Check out Wikipedia. Coe is part Indian !
whydoesmypussysmell 1 year ago
@whydoesmypussysmell Maybe it's a thumbs-up to immigration! Colin Jackson, Linford Christie and Kelly Holmes< currently Mo Farrah among many legends who won medals for GB. Yeah Coe is quite dark, and so those world record times were one-quarter Indian, though it makes no difference really. Or you could say they are Great Britain's star athletes, not anywhere else's. If they're world champions they're doing their bit and more.
wayzotoichi 1 year ago
@wayzotoichi Quite so. And lets not forget Daley Thompson, who also won gold in the decathalon in '80 and '84.
whydoesmypussysmell 1 year ago
@wayzotoichi don"t forget Steve Cram broke 3 world records in 19 days in 1985, 1,500 2,000 & mile. Paula Radcliffe world record holder marathon. Sally Gunell broke world record winning 1993 400m hurdles world title. Triple Jump King Jonathan Edwards won more medals than any other British athlete in history, breaking world record in 1995 which he still holds, first man to jump 18metres, then very next jump break 60 foot, jumping 18.29m All these Athletes are white English, you failed to mention.
dan32113 7 months ago
@wayzotoichi Well said, sir; well said indeed. Incidentally, it is perhaps somewhat ironic that Mr [now Lord] Coe is of Indian descent, given that, that nation is not exactly renowned for producing track and field athletes of world-class standard!!
TheEctomorph 3 months ago
@whydoesmypussysmell How many people are 100% "pure bred English" (whatever that means!)? 3 of his grand parents were "English", the 4th was Indian. In my eyes that makes him British. Yes he has dark hair, but his skin is hardly dark. In fact he's paler than most Italians and Spanish.
deano27671 1 year ago
@whydoesmypussysmell And come to think of it, Cram's mum is German, so he's only half English! See what I mean, very few people have a heritage solely based in one country.
deano27671 1 year ago
@deano27671 Yes, I remember reading somewhere that Cram's half German. I guess the list goes on, Jessica Ennis, Kelly Holmes,etc., etc....
whydoesmypussysmell 1 year ago
@deano27671 Well, as a matter of fact, Deano, EVERYONE has non-British (i.e foreign) ancestors ... at some point in the past. So, in a very real sense, there is no such thing as a "pure bred" Englishman. At the end of the day, all athletes - and indeed all human beings (regardless of the colour of their skin) - belong to the same race: the human race.
TheEctomorph 3 months ago
@whydoesmypussysmell So...?
novlce 11 months ago
@whydoesmypussysmell 1/4
josemourin 3 months ago
@josemourin yes, one of his grandparents.
whydoesmypussysmell 3 months ago
@whydoesmypussysmell That is an unnecessary and unpleasant comment. We all have non-British (i.e foreign) ancestors at some point in the past ...... and so, in a very real sense, there is no such thing as a "pure bred" Englishman.
I suspect that you are one of those bigoted people who refers to Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis as "Pakis".
Oh, and one more thing: Your 'service user' name [on You Tube] is not in the least bit funny or witty. It is actually quite disgusting, IMHO.
TheEctomorph 3 months ago
@TheEctomorph How could you & I have got off on such a wrong foot, babe? You are interested in people like Valery Borzov, Alan Wells and Pietro Mennea? Well, so am I, babe. We have more in common than you'd care to admit. Do you want to have my baby, babe? BTW, some of my best friends are Pakis. They don't mind me refering to them as Pakis, so why should you be offended? Friendship is way deeper than just a name.
whydoesmypussysmell 3 months ago
@whydoesmypussysmell I was somewhat surprised to hear that some of the Pakistani people that you know do not mind being referred to as "Pakis". I must admit that I, personally, have yet to meet anyone of that nationality who doesn't have a problem - or issue (to use the currently fashionable term) - with the word "Paki". I realize, of course, that there is nothing intrinsically derogatory or offensive about that word - it is merely an abbreviation of "Pakistani", after all. However, the
TheEctomorph 3 months ago
@TheEctomorph Babe, it's not just my Paki friends that I called "Paki", I also frequently called one of my friends at uni "Ching chong phoeey." He did not mind either. I did not have any black friends, so I never had the need to use the "n" words. Asian people (Pakis and Ching chong phooeys) are very relaxed about these things. The only race that constantly complains about racism are the blacks. Blacks are like the Jews.They will whinge and whine till the cows come home. Pathetic.
whydoesmypussysmell 3 months ago
@whydoesmypussysmell Judging by those comments, you are far more politically incorrect than me. You mention that you didn't have any black friends at uni ...... I must say that, that is hardly surf******prising, given your somewhat old-fashioned and unenlightened views towards people of different ethnicity.
TheEctomorph 3 months ago
Both inspiring runners.. must be sickening as you get older to realise you can't do it any more though
ellie1309 1 year ago
Over 800m, the distance to 2nd is preposterous.
pretzelberg 1 year ago
Clear pro-Coe bias from Coleman in both races.
pretzelberg 1 year ago
I heard the Coe is on the fags n booze these days, and likes a nice fry up in the morning with plenty of sausages :)
bangtwister 1 year ago
@bangtwister LOL but I seriously doubt it. I bet he is still good for a 5 minute mile in his track suit!
scotjack 1 year ago
@bangtwister Really?! When one considers how fit Lord Coe is for a man of his age [55], I would be more than a lil surprised if he ate traditional English 'fry-ups' on a regular basis, to be frankly honest. What is more, I very much doubt that the former (double) Olympic 1500 metres champion is a frequent smoker - from what I understand, middle-aged people (who did not smoke in their youth or early adult years) are extremely unlikely to take up this habit in their 30's, 40's or 50's.
TheEctomorph 3 months ago
Who is the commentator? His voice can be heard in many athletics videos. Coe was my favorite runner when I was a kid. Perhaps those golden days of British middle-distance running never come back.
poo72 1 year ago
@poo72
The commentator is David Coleman
jonnyt01uk 1 year ago
@jonnyt01uk thanks
poo72 1 year ago
Talking about length of stride is rubbish. It's all in the mind - assuming you're a decent athlete already. It's whether you WANT to win it. Otherwise the longest legged person would always win, which is patent rubbish. I hate - and don't for one moment believe in - the airheaded "scientific" approach towards sport. Please try to remember that as well as being an athlete you are also a HUMAN BEING. This happenstance entails thinking and feeling too - and not just scientific measurements.
zarakhast 1 year ago
Neither Coe or Cram were at their best this week. Ovett defo not. And Elliott got injured - surely that would have been 2 more medals, accepting Cruz winning
rc2869 1 year ago
I grew up during this era. What a rivalry this was, a few years later steve cram came along, and we dominated this event for a few years.
capokhatpin 1 year ago
Can anyone count how many strides Coe, or Cram, takes for the last 400m? (You have to keep counting at the same cadence when the camera is off them.)
I think it is around 160-170, which means they have a stride of around 2.4 m. (Nearly 8 ft.)
Is that possible, or is my count badly off?
scotjack 1 year ago
@scotjack good point you raise there for the athletics buffs out there. Any takers? I believe it's possible to 'fly' (before you take me for a nutcase!), and I mean really leap off the track with each forward stride, like the middle phase of triple jump, when you're running at that sheer speed.
These athletes were quite light in weight, and as a result I wouldn't be surprised if your estimate were true.
wayzotoichi 1 year ago
without seeming to sound too pretentious, I do remember even as a relatively mediocre competitor (as a fairly decent 800 runner during my adolescence, 2.18 aged 14), I definitely think I increased my strides forward, to quite a long length that would have depended on my momentum from running through the previous 100s of metres continuously! So I think it's arounf 5 feet you stride as a fairly tall 14 year old.. : / even at a young level, though it's obvioslt not nearly good as the champions(!)
wayzotoichi 1 year ago
@wayzotoichi well yes of course and even at slower speeds too, there are many instances(pictures) that have been taken where the runner appears to be hovering over the track, even some of me, its just like horses not always having a foot on the ground, thats why we have modern film and motion pictures today
chiefshakenbake 1 year ago
@scotjack - haven't counted them, but if you look at my comment to your previous question, on the Chariots of Fire video of Coe running, I reckon Coe's stride at full cruising speed was around 7 feet. I would think Cram's was slightly longer as he was about 5 inches taller. Of course that stride might shorten in a sprint. When I get time I'll count the number of strides he took for a 100m segment then x by 4.
deano27671 1 year ago
@scotjack Looked at some of my dvds of Coe and Cram using slow mo. Looking at a few different races, I got an average number of 46 strides per 100m for Coe and 45 for Cram, using similarly paced races. That gives Coe a stride of c. 217cm (/ 2.54 = 85.5 inches or 7'1.5". Cram's works out at 222cm ( 7' 3.5") . If you compare this as a ratio to their height, Coe's stride is marginally longer for his height: - 2.17/1.76m (Coe's height) =1.23:1
Cram - 2.22 / 1.87 (height) = 1.19:1
deano27671 1 year ago
@deano27671 Very, very interesting - and quite definitive! Thanks for all the time you must have spent. I wonder if there is an ideal ratio for any particular distance. What does Usain Bolt come in at?? What was Seb's best time over 100?
scotjack 1 year ago
@scotjack -you're welcome! I really don't know the ideal ratio per event, but obviously the longer the better when comparing athletes from the same event. Juantorena supposedly had a stride of 9 feet!! I find that hard to believe. I have a race of his somewhere, so I'll check it out . According to Coe himself, he covered 100m in 10.6 in training, but that was from a moving start. He ran last 100 in Europa Cup semi in 11.3 in 81. He also could run 200m in 21.6.
deano27671 1 year ago
@deano27671 Roughly, I came up with 1.28:1 for Bolt. I believe he is 6'5" , or 1.9558 meters. And I hear (but am unable to confirm) that he takes only 40 strides in a 100m race (most world-class sprinters take about 45). So each stride is about 2.5 meters. He is definitely a fluke of nature...and I only hope he is clean, because it's nice to be able to appreciate such awesome feats.
disgruntledathlete 1 year ago
@disgruntledathlete -Wow! That's a long stride. I bet if you were to do his second 100 in a 200m race, it would probably be even longer!? I must get round to checking Juantorena's too. Cheers.
deano27671 1 year ago
@scotjack it definitely is possible... 400m and 800m are often won by the one able to run at the highest speed the longest... Since speed is frequency x length of strides the advantage of long strides is evident.
A high frequency is hard to hold for 800 - 1500m due to muscles building up lactate faster I believe. A Long stride requires power but builds up less lactate in the muscles
squalleke123 1 year ago
@scotjack fwiw I made Cram as 170 odds, coe as 180 to 185..no idea if this is right
echo680 9 months ago
Both great athletes, great runners, but in terms of all around talent and pure athletic
prowess, they cannot compare to the great decathletes. Thos lads are the best
of the best
GOATAli 1 year ago
@zarakhast in the 1500, yes it does
123booge321 1 year ago
@123booge321 What, did Ovett change his name to Hicham El Guerrouj?
kozmon0t 1 year ago
@123booge321 Okay it does then. Just trying (and failing) to be dramatic. These were great times for British middle distance runners. I was young (teens) when all this was happening but I remember the excitement of it. My Dad was a fantastic runner and I wasn't bad either. And I went to the same school as Coe. When this was happening I was winning cross country races. It was an IMMENSE inspiration. And Coe's turn of acceleration at the end was exciting - you wanted to copy it !
zarakhast 1 year ago
3:43 : "Ovett's world record survives". No it doesn't !
zarakhast 1 year ago
They were both the nuts!! .. Seb Coe was the inspirational as was Ovett... today 20 years on and still Sebs world record over 800m has only been just been beaten by a second..
stanbow 1 year ago
@stanbow It hasn't been beaten by a second! It's only 0.6 better now. If Coe hadn't run wide on the curve to go past the rabbit then it would be about 0.4 secs, as Coe's run would have been about 1:41.5 without that extra couple of metres to run. Tha's an improvement of only 0.4 sec in 29 years! Put Coe from 81 on the modern mondo tracks of today and I doubt the WR would have moved on at all.
deano27671 1 year ago
@deano27671 The rabbit dropped before 600 meters. Coe wasn't running wide at all, he was running alone.
If anything, having a rabbit makes a record less impressive. Most international 800's still are won by 1:44's or 1:45's because they're crowded start to finish. There's limits to how fast a crowd can run.
kozmon0t 1 year ago
@kozmon0t Sorry mister, but you're wrong. Look at the Florence WR again. The rabbit takes Coe to 400m, then he slows down on the bend at about 420m making Coe ran wide on the outside of lane 1 for about 20m. That meant he would have run about 1 or 2 metres further than necessary, which is about 0.2. Neither Kipketer (who had a rabbit to 550m) nor Rudisha ahd to run wide in their WR runs.
deano27671 1 year ago
@deano27671 If you're gonna be that picky, at least refer to the video here not a video somewhere else.
kozmon0t 10 months ago
@kozmon0t the race I was referring to is on here, it's just that it only shows the last 200m. He ran wide before that.
deano27671 10 months ago
@deano27671 Yes... as I said, shown in a "video somewhere else," obviously.
kozmon0t 10 months ago
This was the greatest time for England In mid distance racing. Three of the all time great all in their prime. Coe was the best then ovett and then steve cram.
CoachTracy209 1 year ago
I can never get tired of watching SEB COE vs STEVE OVETT 'CLASH OF TITANS' 1980s BBC SPORT You can see it in here: FR/EEMOV/IEPLA/NET./IN/FO
urlabari001 1 year ago
That was one helluva summer, my best too, athletically. And Coe's 1984 race in LA was scintillating, especially running 3:32 and looking fresh and ANGRY at the finish! The US network (ABC, I believe) noted that he was "mad as hell" or something to that effect, with his gesture to the pressbox that he certainly was not "finished". Let us not forget Joachim Cruz's great 800m win over Coe as well. Great memories!
LesbianVampireLover 1 year ago
thank you for this video
weGETbaked 1 year ago
wonderful classy runners!!
marc757549 1 year ago
coe gets quite a good neck workout when hes running
mrcatohead 1 year ago
@mrcatohead What do you mean?
deano27671 1 year ago
@deano27671 he's looking around every 2 seconds
mrcatohead 1 year ago
Thanks for posting. Great footage for an old "track head" like me. I've been running since 76 but left my speed somewhere back in the 1980's. If you see it, tell it I miss it. However, nowhere near the level of these guys.
ROUSEVIDEO 1 year ago
i still remember the stinging sensation in my eyes as i got home from swimming baths with chlorine burning my eyes watching this race as an 8yo. me and my mates used to run around the block of our street pretending to be them.i always preferred steve ovett.coe was the better tho often guilty of mugging races off ovett by spending most of the time sitting on his shoulder but great memories nonetheless....hard to believe ovetts son may one day win gold....for australia....sacrilidge.ah well....
nickthefox72 1 year ago
i met him today on the 26th of march 2010 he came 2 my school st thomas more in london haringery
nab678 1 year ago
Chariots of fire anyone?
billabongodrum 1 year ago
@yiftertheshifter good point I do see what you mean but for me ovett was the better runner
63frankie 1 year ago
coe got london the 2012 games
eurovisionuk2008 1 year ago
Coe proved himself the better athlete, but Ovett was almost as good. They both deserve a place in sporting history and equal admiration from those of us who enjoy our running at a less competitive level. -:)
Kidsgrove49 1 year ago
These two guys can only be compared to hungarian Iharos from the 50s......but then came the africans and just beat up everybody:)
rettegen 2 years ago
The Africans didn't came. They were always on track. But after 1985 their competition disappeared practically overnight and they were left on track alone.
centrum99 1 year ago
Ovett had class Coe was such a bad sport , didn't even congratulate ovett at 1980 Moscow 800m.bad loser .
63frankie 2 years ago
@63frankie That's because he knew he ran a poor race and that his best chance for a gold medal (at his best event) was gone; the media, of course, berated and slandered Coe. Ovett can't complain: he may have lost for the first time in years at 1500m, he still walked away (certainly) with a gold medal.
YiftertheShifter1 2 years ago
@63frankie Take a look at the 1986 European Champs; the 800m was first, Coe won, Cram was "bottomed" as Coleman put it; the 1500m came around, Coe was gracious in defeat, because he was certainly leaving with a gold medal.
YiftertheShifter1 2 years ago
The best two middle distance runners ever!
British middle distance running at that time was just incredible, perhaps even better than the Kenyans now.
TopRobbo1970 2 years ago 4
Coe was a dik. Overt rilz
Fanfardon 2 years ago
Goddammit- I miss Alan1981's Ovett videos.
knightsxc06 2 years ago
STATISTICS CALCULATION - from
BR-0 com/olympics htm
tietajajoshua 2 years ago
in language we have freedom of expression Genius just means exceptional talent, somebody with an outstanding specific skill. "if everyone is thinking alike then someone isn`t thinking" Gen. George S. Patton (in otherwords everybody hates a smart arse)
micksaltydog 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Wayzotoi states that Coe and Ovett each were a genius. Somebody who runs very fast is hardly a genius. Wrong terminology. These silly comments remind me of the scene in Manhattan where Diane Keaton tells Woody Allen about these people in her life who are each a genius, to which Allen replies that "maybe you should hang out with some stupid people. You might learn a thing or two."
KJRolling 2 years ago
This was a golen age for English athletics. Coe was my hero growing up. Fond memories, Thank you, 5 stars.
roborunner 2 years ago
Great vid..very very fond memories...xx
eddiesteele 2 years ago
i loved both their styles of runnung, a truly great age in british athletics
Coltzan54 2 years ago
This was the golden age of British middle distance running - where are our runners now?
jfy1962 2 years ago
Ovett always had the iceman image, Coe the golden boy. But in fact Ovett was a really nice guy - and Coe joined the Tory party.
And Ovett's record in Koblenz is the classic for me - because not just the fans but also all the other athletes are cheering him on.
pretzelberg 2 years ago
Yeah, and Ovett emigrated to Australia, who his children will run for one day; if their potential is realised; while Coe stayed in this miserable place putting time and effort back into athletics and sport in this country! Sports Council (acquiring funds for less affluent sports in the late '80's), AAA, IAAF and getting the Olympics to London for the one and only time in any of our life times. But hey ho, Ovett was a nice guy!
deano27671 2 years ago
You are definitely right deano, and that speaks volumes for each of these personalities - Coe's work in politics first, then campaigning and guiding the Sports Council is truly admirable, and secures him a place in organisational history of the Olympics as well as athletics history, Ovett's always wanted to compete well and did so by winning medals, also to have a quieter life away from the media spotlight,so he's not a hypocrit for raising his boy in peace and quiet away from that in Australia.
wayzotoichi 2 years ago
No, Ovett isn't a hypocrite. Good luck to him and his family. I just get cross when everyone makes out Ovett was so much for the people and was a real "runner's runner", while Coe was selfish and only in the sport for himself. Coe has done so much more for the sport in this country (and that's not a slight on Ovett) than Ovett has.
deano27671 2 years ago
Yes, Sebastian Coe is not a bad person for his approach and personality, it's an example of a competitive type of person, which is part of why he was so successful. Ovett is also a different kind of personality. How they are living today is in some ways consistent with their profiles in the 80s, so neither should be criticised for not being genuine or authentic to himself.
wayzotoichi 2 years ago
you are complaining about your country.
do you know the effort that people in argentina have to put to practice athletics. we have no subsidies. athletes lack of encouragement.
mattiasdv 2 years ago
That's pretty bad, that athletes don't get the encouragement they deserve. Joking apart, too much pay could be one reason England never seem to go further than the quarter-finals of any football tournament either (1990 and 1996 being exceptions)..A few years ago too much subsidies was actually blamed for why our athletes had no determination. Michael Johnson said that US athletes never got government these grants, so stayed hungry, not to slack off like the Brits were doing in 2004!!
wayzotoichi 2 years ago
one of ovetts children is in the year below me at my school, and his potential certainly has been realised. He is a great runner. long legs! . Steve came in to talk to the school the other day about his running
hirdisalegend 2 years ago
Wow! I hope you realised how lucky you were to listen to an athletic God!? I'm very envious. I sincerely hope his son achieves a fraction of what his dad did. It's just a shame he will (if it happens) be representing Australia. Lol
deano27671 2 years ago 4
ps. btw thanks deano27671?! I've never seen middle distance running statistics so readily offered on youtube providing some seriously good reference data for the viewers.
wayzotoichi 2 years ago
You're welcome. I know some people might find it sad, but I have always been intrigued by stats during races. It more often than not tells us more about the athletes than just watching it or the final result.
I know what you mean about Ovett Jnr. Just goes to show it's in the genes. Luck of the draw! lol
deano27671 2 years ago
I'm sure his dad could teach him a thing or two! I'd love to see it happen just for the spectacle of Ovett's son, it would be like a reboot of the golden era, but another chapter. When older guys (born before 1988?!) hear about how good Ovett's son is etc, to be honest it makes all the graft or achievements that some of us did (at lower levels or less consistently) as teenagers seem redundant (!)
wayzotoichi 2 years ago
Is it Freddie? I compete against him in athletics, very nice bloke! (HE'S VERY TALL!!!)
screaminggingin83 2 years ago
What do you reckon there last 100m time was?
BillyTheKid62 2 years ago
Moscow 800m:- Ovett ~ 12.7, Coe ~ 12.6, last 200m:- Ovett ~ 25.0, Coe ~ 24.9. But while Ovett ran last bend in lane 1, Coe ran wide in lane 2, meaning he ran an extra 3.5m. That represents about 0.5sec, so his last 200m was equivalent to a 24.4.
Moscow 1500m:- Coe ~ 12.1, Ovett ~ 12.6.
When you consider that Kemal ran the last 100m in yesterday's World Championship 1500m final in 13.0, you get an idea of how special Coe & Ovett were.
deano27671 2 years ago 3
Coe best 800/1000m Cram best 1200m Ovett best 2000m obviously the mile was the perfect distance. Coe`s speed endurance does it over 800&1k Cram winding it up from 400m out with that stride length and Ovett`s Strength.
micksaltydog 2 years ago
hows coes change of speed in that last 100m to break cram, what a beast
mrcatohead 2 years ago
I prefered Ovett because Coe was so pretty, Ovett looked more gritty. But it was Coe that one more olympic medals and who went on to remain in the limelight. But then, I like that about Ovett too.
timtak1 2 years ago
i did a 2:15
ZZz7ZZzzZZz7ZzZZzz7Z 2 years ago
I feel priveleged to have lived through the Golden Age of Middle-Distance running, of seeing Coe and Ovett making history. Even now, after 30 years, when I am running I sometimes catch myself - with my eyes closed - dreaming that I am Coe or Ovett.......
Gurkeboy 2 years ago 13
I'm a bigger dreamer than you - I actually imagine I am beating them!
LPCLASSICAL 2 years ago 9
im a bigger dreamer,i imagine i aint sitting on my fat arse,and im running
whocareswealldie 2 years ago
Anyone know what happened to the video from the 1977 World Cup 1500m ("one man's blazing speed") and also the 1978 European Championship 800m (the Olaf Beyer race)?
Both used to be on this site, but since it was revamped they've both disappeared.
Anyone have an alternative source?
Would love to see them again.
Thanks!
carlfromhastings 3 years ago
Unfortunately the guy who put them on here, aLaN81 pulled his account because some American company was threatening him with copyright! I have the races myself, but don't know how to download them on here. I'm sure they'll be somewhere on the net.
deano27671 3 years ago
the guy pulled his account. I put a more detailed response but it said that it was pending approval, so I doubt it will be put on here!
deano27671 3 years ago
Thanks for that update, sorry to hear his account was closed. If you work out a way to upload your videos, please let me know - I'm sure a 14-year-old could show you how it's done! I've looked for these races on the web but can't find any trace.
carlfromhastings 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Ovett: champion. Coe: little girl. See him on the podium? Olympic silver medallist and he looks like he's just been handed a dog turd. Now I'm not one to make false accusations, but didn't some people say that Coe was a blood doper? Not that you'd hear anything like that from me.
bootymanager 3 years ago
did you get that comment from Clive James by any chance thats the dog turd one not the doping one which you probably borrowed as well. What the matter cant think for yourself bootyarmchairsportsfancouldofbeengoodbutlikeadrinktomuch. Stick to arguing down pub after you`ve watched a bit of topical TV so you know what to say.
1939salt 3 years ago 2
Clive James? What are you talking about? Coe did look a bit like a spoiled kid not getting what he wanted. Doping? Well, unfortunately we can't completely rule out anyone. Was Baumann on the juice, for example, or did someone spike his toothpaste? Possibly. That said, what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Coe passed all his doping tests, as did Ovett, so we cannot accuse them of cheating.
bootymanager 2 years ago
wanting new friends
i liked this video :) Bz
Bashri 3 years ago
also i think that steve cram was better than ovett - his pbs over the four distances are also better and he has the fastest of any of them over 1500m and 1 mile. Seb is probably better though when you look at his times over 1000 and 800 - even if we never saw his full potential
genderpretender 3 years ago
diagree sir steve was a race runner not a glory hunter.
jmdm1957 3 years ago
I think as I get older I begin to appreciate Ovett was the more versatile athlete and his grace on the track was more than equal to his great adversary. I have a lot of awe of Ovett and Cram as well who somehow seemed the third wheel of that running rivalry, despite Cram prodigious and remarkable achievements in races. Both Steves were out of this world competitors.
wayzotoichi 3 years ago
*Cram's
wayzotoichi 3 years ago
steve ovett was good but coe had to be better - when you look at coe's pb's - they are faster than ovett's over all four of the middle distances
genderpretender 3 years ago 2
ovett's son is in my grade and he is an absolute freak at running as well
lachie10 3 years ago
what age is he? How fast can he run 800 metres..? very interested to know.
wayzotoichi 3 years ago
well im 14 but when i was about 11 i think he ran like a 2:17 which is frickin awesome for that age
lachie10 3 years ago
wow I wish I was still 14 :( Ovett's son U11 2:17 is outstanding, which just proves genetics/background is important. I was really serious in 800/1500 metres, 2:14 was my U-13 PB which I still think is good, I'm gonna ignore that Ovett stat haha!
wayzotoichi 3 years ago
Freddy yeah hes getting way better now Ive seen him training at the track..holy shit lol
matt6101 3 years ago
Is there any chance you have any of the other episodes in the series like the Old Firm clash mate cheers
Calatron2202 3 years ago
no mate, this is all I had :( but there's probably loads of new clips on Coe, OVett and company since I uploaded this a while back..and a few good documentaries from the time as well. Hope you find some more of what you're after. :)
wayzotoichi 3 years ago
What is the name of the commentator in these clips? I've heard him in a lot of these videos. I wish someone like that could call the races on American TV.
MadSlantedPowers 3 years ago
David Coleman, sadly retired though now.
Xuclo 3 years ago 2
Thanks. I actually came across his name elsewhere before I saw your response. I guess he retired shortly after the 2000 Olympics without much fanfare from the BBC. He didn't sound quite as good at the end, and didn't say as much, but still pretty good in comparison. The way he rattles off the names and times on these older videos is amazing and shows he was pretty knowledgeable and puts Tom Hammond and Don Wittman to shame.
MadSlantedPowers 3 years ago
This brings back fond memories for me, I idolised both Seb Coe and Steve Ovett back then, they both dominated athletics in the 70's and it was inevitable that the question would arise about who was the best of the two, I still don't know really, I found athletics was so much more interesting back in their time then today.
proff180 3 years ago 2
YEah absolutely, I mean...they were like gods..or the closest thing to it in athletics.
wayzotoichi 3 years ago