#132 - Socialized Medicine: Long Waits, Procedures Denied, Forcing Doctors, High Taxes

[Maddie6385]

Totally agree socialize medicine does not work.I hear that so many people are given anti-depressant medication when they have had cancer.One woman went to 5 doctors in Canada before tests were done.She had thyroid cancer.I had to medical conditions and the same thing happened.How does a doctor misdiagnosis severe hyperthyroidism.I looked anoxeric..Septecemia gets missed and meningitis gets missed..Look up the story of Aiden Soper.

[stringlov]

The People Need The Same Health Care As The People Thay Elect.....

[MLMProspectPros]

Correction. We do not have the best healthcare system in the world. We have some of the best doctors, but they come from everywhere. btw I lived in Japan, and they have UHC and they are overpopulated. But the difference between them and us is that evil insurance companies don't drop them. While it's true Canada does SUCK, single payer works in many countries VERY WELL. They don'y go to Cuba because the facility is not the best because of sanctions. Stop drinking the Alex Jones Kool-Aid!

[hauskalainen]

We have socialized medicine in the UK and yes you can go out of system if you want. But only 10% get it BECAUSE THE NHS IS SO GOOD.

Those 10% only pay the income tax due on the benefit - i.e. 20% of the true cost.

Medical care costs via taxes in UK are HALF the cost of care in the US. It is NOT a ponzi scheme but a very very good idea.

[edchuckndoug]

you work for the rnc or insurance lobby don't you

[northpal2]

Very accurate video on the so-called great Canadian health care. I work in Canada off and on. While up here a simple blood clot went untreated for by doctors for 4 yrs despite my visits and concerns. MRI took 11 months. It went from ankle to hip crippling me. Finally lodged in my heart almost killing me, can't even sue the bastards, bad doctors are all over the place. Good ones have fled,taxes are very high. America don't fall for it.

Name one thing govt run that has worked ?

THINK

[hgryphon]

So much alarmist crap coming out of your mouth.

I don't recall hearing anyone talking about ending private medicine, just creating a public option. So there will be two ways to get your medical care. You will still have the option of buying your own additional coverage.

And listen to your made up crap about doctors not doing abortions. That's very funny that you also talk about pharmacists who are anti-contraceptive when an increase in contraceptive use would mean a decrease in abortion. LOLZ!

[LCPDTipline]

Are you an extremely rich person who can afford private coverage?

And also: It's lulz, not lolz.

Total fail...

[hgryphon]

"Are you an extremely rich person who can afford private coverage?"

Nope. Not now at least. What does that have to do with anything? Do you know the statistics on people who have insurance now who choose not to get elective surgery due to the cost? It seems even rich people can't afford it.

"Total fail..."

Yeah, because modifying "lol" in the first place isn't a fail. But I did it out of sarcasm. What's your excuse for using retarded pseudo-words online?

[LCPDTipline]

Rich people will always ALWAYS get the health care they need. & those who have it that can't get it now will be even worse off later on. In Canada, you'll have so many operations that they can do & it's just too damn bad for everyone else. It costs $900 dollars just for a private clinic in Canada, & taxes are much higher than ours to finance socialized health care.

& I use lulz because I was lurking around /b/ before you had a computer. Damn project chanology got all the newfags in on it...

[hgryphon]

All the more reason to offer cheap health care to everyone, LCPD. Yes, Canada has waiting lists for procedures not relating to life-threatening disease and injury. And?

The cost of private care in Canada is irrelevant, as we are talking about the US, as are Canadian taxes.

And I find it hard to believe that you were on B before I had a computer since my having a computer predates B.

[LCPDTipline]

First of all, it's a worse reason to because it's the same for things like cancer and heart transplants and the like. Second of all, the costs ARE relevant since we're basing our system on theirs, and their taxes went up to fund this "free" healthcare. Much like the USA's will.

And finally, it's /b/, not B. And that just proves you have little to no clue what /b/ or Anonymous are.

[LCPDTipline]

Lemme guess. You're an atheist liberal with a subscription to TAA? Am I in the ballpark here? Bet I am.

[hgryphon]

You're close, not that it excuses you from your appalling lack of logic or ability to think critically. Nor does it somehow counter any argument I've made. In fact, you still haven't provided a source for the $900 clinic visit you mentioned earlier, which leads me (and hopefully anyone else who's reading this thread) to believe that you're simply pulling numbers out your butt and quoting a party line rather than thinking and researching for yourself. Am I in the ballpark here?

[LCPDTipline]

My source was from a small documentary where the people guess what? WENT TO A CANADIAN GOV. RUN CLINIC AND WERE TOLD TO GO TO A PRIVATE ONE AND PAY $900! AMAZING, ISN'T IT!?

[hgryphon]

Do you have a link to the source? Or a title of the documentary so people can go look?

[LCPDTipline]

ObamaCare Yay Or Nay? The Truth About Canada!

By StevenCrowder.

[hgryphon]

Excellent. Now you're playing ball. See? Eh? Ballpark?

So, I notice that your documentary is labeled as a comedy video. I also want to note that it's not $900US for a clinic visit, it's $900CN for a check up, so you misrepresented the source you were quoting. Finally, that's the Canadian health care system. What about France and other countries that have social health care? Why can't the US's system be like theirs?

Pointless alarmist baloney, LCPD.

[LCPDTipline]

Because theirs are like Canada's, dipshit.

Also, a US numerical equivalent would be $792.99. But I guess the rich and powerful middle class can afford that kind of thing, amirite?

[hgryphon]

"Because theirs are like Canada's"

Baloney. You haven't studied this issue and don't know what you're talking about. That is very clear.

Also, nobody is proposing doing away with private insurance or insurance companies, so your comment is STILL nothing more than alarmist baloney without any grounds to support it.

I'm sorry, LCPD, but you lose this argument. All you have left are insults and your cut and pasted /b/ tangents.

[LCPDTipline]

OK, lets have us a nice question or two. Why is it that the little "statistic" they had included illegal immigrants, people whom were making enough to afford coverage, but didn't choose to, and other such groups? Why is it that you still haven't provided ONE fact and whenever I provide them you say it's alarmist propoganda? Why is it that you try to avoid the point here by saying everything I say is "fake" when in all actuality I have used fact and fact alone to disprove you?

[LCPDTipline]

Answer me those.

[hgryphon]

What statistic would that be?

Well, I'm not making any claims. Claims require proof. The things you're providing as proof are alarmist baloney for the reasons I've already given.

You haven't used facts. You've given me a comedy video as your only source and you misquoted the video in the first place. And you haven't disproved me at all, because I'm not trying to prove anything.

[LCPDTipline]

It is only marked as comedy because the guy is a comedian who... get this... USES FACTS! Aren't facts fun? And my statistic was not wrong. If you would have watched the video, you would have found out that that statistic was INDEED used. Also, did you notice all the people talking about how BAD socialized health care is on there? Maybe we should take heed to that? Nah... what do they know? We've got Obama, after all, amirite?

[hgryphon]

"And my statistic was not wrong."

You said it was $900 for a clinic visit. The nurse said it was about $900 for a check up. A clinit visit and a check up are not the same thing. So you were wrong.

"Also, did you notice all the people talking about how BAD socialized health care is on there?"

Did you notice all the people talking about how bad privatized health care is here?

And I didn't vote for Obama, kthk.

[LCPDTipline]

Aren't a visit to the clinic for a checkup the same AS A CHECKUP!?

And they complain because guess what? THEY HAVE SOCIALIZED HEALTH CARE!

WE DON'T YET! So obviously dumbasses like you are going to agree with that liar Obama about it.

[hgryphon]

No, they aren't.

So people in the US are complaining about privatized health care because they have socialized health care? What are you even talking about now?

Ad hominem attacks are not a valid form of argument.

So, are we done yet? I'm getting bored of this conversation. Your constant appeal to emotion in spite of not having any factual ground to stand on is going nowhere, and I have better things to do with my time. Like playing Tetris.

[LCPDTipline]

Do you have a deficiency? I said we don't have it yet, so obviously fools, like you, are going to think it's better than our health care, because you people are fools.

And if you want to stop you can go ahead, but I like this shit. I know you're just pissed at the truth on your side. I suggest you get a girl and get out of the house.

inb4: I'm married with kids or I have a girlfriend.

[hgryphon]

Ad hominem attacks are not a valid argument. :)

You're very funny. You're the one getting mad and serious, and now you're displacing your own feelings of frustration onto me. I suggest YOU get a girl and probably a life before you go postal. The Internet is obviously too stressful an environment for you.

And it wouldn't hurt to read a book or two, or at least learn the real truth about an issue before picking fights with strangers in a forum.

[LCPDTipline]

Coming from a man whom asks why all the anonymous folks and then he hides his Identity, amirite?

Also: This is YouTube. It's not a forum, it's not a thread, it's a damn comments section.

[LCPDTipline]

And yes, they are.

[LCPDTipline]

See, you VISIT a CLINIC to get a CHECKUP.

It's like a puzzle. Only idiots can't figure them out.

[hgryphon]

"See, you VISIT a CLINIC to get a CHECKUP."

Yes, that is certainly one of many things you can do in a clinic. Is that the mutually exclusive activity of a clinic? No. Is that why your comedian source was going to a clinic? No.

There's the real puzzle. You may want to watch the video again, since just once obviously wasn't enough for you to get all the relevant information. Or better still, watch a real documentary from a real scientist.

[LCPDTipline]

Why would a scientist do a documentary on the health care system, n00b?

Sorry, but people of a lower intellect than me make me rage sometimes. Especially newfag atheist liberals.

[hgryphon]

You use a comedy video as your source and then misquote it, and you also feel ad hominem attacks are a valid argument, and then you say I have lower intellect than you? This from a man who, after 12 years on the force, hasn't risen above traffic cop? Detective exam too hard for you?

Oh well. I've decided I won't even bother responding to you unless you have something intelligent to say or ask. So I'm guessing I won't be responding to you ever again. Pity. Bye bye, officer.

[LCPDTipline]

I'm a sergeant, good sir. It is the same rank. And theres no such thing as a "detective exam." I choose to stay with my men.

And seeing as you're giving up, I might as well give one final fuck you. So...

Fuck you, too, buddy.

LOL the bitch blocked me.

[hgryphon]

I don't know how you can say it's the same thing when there is no public health option in the US, so you've got nothing to compare anything else to. That's a logical fallacy.

I don't deny taxes in the US will go up. That's a no-brainer. You need to raise money to pay for new programs. I just don't see what your point is in bringing up taxes.

[hgryphon]

I know that it's /b/ and not B. For some reason, YouTube wouldn't allow my comment through as /b/, so I changed it. That tells ME that YOU are the kind of person that judges a person or situation without having all the facts. And I probably know more about Anonymous than you do. Are you really a police officer? I bet internal affairs would like to ask you about your association with a group of people who phoned in bomb threats to stadiums in the US. What's your badge number?

[LCPDTipline]

My badge number? That's a pleasant first. I won't give you that, but I'm somewhere in the 6th district. And Anon isn't a terror cell, idiot. You're obviously a newfag if you really think Anon can pull together to do much of anything right.

Oh yeah, we blow up teh yellow vanz and kill ppl! OMG! TISNF!

[hgryphon]

"And Anon isn't a terror cell, idiot."

Really? So members of Anonymous don't get together and make death threats against people they don't like? You can't say no and be honest, LCPD. Making death threats against people is (shock and horror) a crime! Phoning in bomb threats (even if you don't go plant bombs) is a crime! Anonymous does things like this, meaning anonymous is a criminal organization!

Go ahead and mock me, but it doesn't change the fact that Anons are criminals, does it?

[LCPDTipline]

LOL idiot.

[LCPDTipline]

Also, thanks for taking my ballpark line, faggot.

[hgryphon]

You're welcome. Crooked cop. :)

Using the verbiage of the person you are communicating with while arguing a point is a very common and classic tactic when one wants to turn an opponent's words against them.

So, thank you for making your own words readily available to me. I see that it has gotten under your skin, though, or else why waste an entire response just to point it out? And if you're becoming angry and dramatic and I'm still cheerful and articulate, does that mean you fail at /b/?

[LCPDTipline]

At least I'm not as fucked up in the head as you are, kid.

[hgryphon]

So, let's see.

1) No denials

2) Another ad hominem attack

3) You're still confused about my age

4) You're still getting all worked up over drama that you yourself created

You fail at Anonymous. You're taking all this way to serious. The Internets: serious business. amirite?

[LCPDTipline]

I like how you declare yourself the winner. That's the sure fire way of saying you're a dipshit with no real facts.

[hgryphon]

I didn't declare myself the winner. I declared you the loser. But I like how you declare that I have no real facts after I proved YOU have no real facts. :)

[LCPDTipline]

When did you say that?

If you're going to sit here and not answer me anything, I'm going to leave, since I have no time to talk with such a pathetic heathen as yourself.

And go ahead. Use the "oh ur just insalting mee!1!!" line again. I like when you go into denial.

[hgryphon]

So your best response to my pointing out that you are freely associating with criminals is an ad hominem attack. Stay classy, LCPDTipline.

Anything else you want to say about it? Anything you want to say about the hacking, harassment, death threats, bomb threats, etc, that Anonymous regularly engages in for fun?

[LCPDTipline]

Aha! To be astounded. An army of assholes, an association armed with an arsenal of asinine ambiguously-adult anonymii. This antiquated armada, no mere attack force, is an astounding assembly of articulate aristocrats. Assuming the collective affliction has not abruptly atrophied, another day of ardent internet arguments arises.

[LCPDTipline]

Under the ambiguous aegis of internet anonymity, all annoying assertions may be announced with reckless abandon. Apology? Do not forgive. Alas, I am aflutter. After the anticipation... You may call me Anonymous.

[hgryphon]

Wow, you can cut and paste! Do you have one with a bunch of B words you can cut and paste next?

[LCPDTipline]

Acually, yes, I can cuntpaste a lot of stuff for your viewing pleasure.

[hobieslug45]

screw this system I have a great med plan but got macular degeneration. the shots of lucentis cost me 2500 dollars a shot ( not covered ) needed a shot a month . I need two good eyes to keep my job (d.o.t. license) so I had little choice. had to stop paying my credit cards and eating only out of my veg garden . my starches and protine haven't grown in yet so I have been getting very . came down with pnumonia and pluricy .

[hobieslug45]

had no choice but to go with a 103.3 fever . now I got the hospital on my ass too . I realize that some one has to fall through the cracks but thats my point it happens in all forms of med care

[Brdstfff]

I'm sorry to hear of your troubles, but a public health care system wouldn't have helped you.

At least the Canadian health care system wouldn't.

[classicallady]

Well you must have read my comments. I've witnessed it myself with my brother. I have nothing to say but fantastic things about Canadian healthcare. True, my brother also got a "suplementary insurance from IBM...Nonetheless, my family had other issues and were all very well taken care of.

[Brdstfff]

Canadian health care works just fine if you're dying.

If you are having mild or moderate problems, you have to wait until they're serious before you'll get any help.

[hobieslug45]

If I had no chioce I would probably be better off . gentech sell this stuff for 40,000

dollars a gram.,so if I sold a glass of water to a millionare who was dying of thirst in the dessert would this be a legal sale in the u.s. and dont tell me they spent 3 billion in research and developement

[classicallady]

Just one more comment - we Europeans have a higher health quality than Americans...

[classicallady]

I hear what you said. My experience on the other hand, is totally different: my brother had a brain cancer, was a canadian citizen, was hospitalied for 18 months, sent to Montreal for the best neuro surgeon, got back to Ottawa and received throughout the very BEST treatment you can get.hospitals spotless, nurses very caring, doctors all the time. I myself, was sick over there a couple of times and got IMMEDIATE treatement...Same in Europe.

[Brdstfff]

The Canadian Health Care system works sometimes - mainly when you arrive at a hospital close to death or when you are young and have a serious health condition, such as cancer.

Other than those situations, you have to find answers yourself because the health care system won't help you.

[Brdstfff]

To the people giving "thumbs down" to the truth about Canadian health care - I'll be watching when you're dealing with your own public health care system. Socialism brings everyone down to the lowest possible level and is maintained just above the level of complete collapse - but politicians and athletes continue to get deluxe care.

I've lived with public health care for 40 YEARS. I think I know a little more about it than you do.

[SoCoolNoFool]

To all the people on here defending socialized medicine: have you ever been chronically sick for a long period of time? If so, I'd really like to hear from you. As for me, I'm Canadian, and I *have* been sick since 2007 (specifically, with chronic pain). I can honestly say that the system here has failed me (and countless patients with problems similar to mine).

You wait *19 months* to get into a pain clinic in my province. *19 months*. It's inhuman to make people wait that long.

[Brdstfff]

"I'm Canadian, and I *have* been sick since 2007"

The only way you get health care in Canada is if:

1. You are an athlete or a politician.

2. You arrive at the hospital with a heart attack, appendicitis or another condition that requires urgent care.

Chronic pain? Good luck! My son had stomach problems; I was told it would take 2 years to get an endoscopy. That's refusal of service. He would have died had I not taken him to a Mayo Clinic.

Public health care is barbaric.

[SoCoolNoFool]

I am really sorry to hear about your son. I hope he is doing better now. Two years for an endoscopy?! Which province was this in? Any chance you can move out of Canada? I am seriously considering it myself, even though it would take years to achieve this.

[Brdstfff]

My son is better now, no thanks to the Canadian Health Care system. 2 years for an endoscopy in Alberta.

Unfortunately, Obama is going to introduce socialist health care in the States. If the Mayo Clinics have to become public or close, I don't know where we'll go for health care.

Did you know that you can buy a Canadian passport for $3000 in most countries? People do it and then come here for their "free" health care!! No wonder our system is so bad!

[manofreedom]

I'm an MD in northeast Arkansas and even our poorest people on MCAID can get fast treatment or referal to a specialist. People here have a mind set of entitlement and there is little or no patience left in American society so i don't think waiting lists will fly here but I never thought we would elect a marxist as president either. People here are already about to revolt so when they get the tax bill for all this "free" medical care lets see how they like it.

[Brdstfff]

"when they get the tax bill for all this "free" medical care lets see how they like it. "

Not only will they get a bill, hospital cleanliness will decline considerably and they'll be told, like I was, that they have to wait for 2 years to get an endoscopy for their sick child. It'll be interesting to see how the fools who voted for Obama will react, especially when illegal aliens get FREE access to health care for which they haven't paid, causing even longer waits for those who do pay.

[mufasa10811]

fuck you manlook around people dying you think thats normal fuckyou!!!!

[rolandsinn]

I live in Australia and of course there are people who complain about waiting lists and poor service, however my experiences and those of family members and close friends have mostly been very positive. I earn a reasonable salary but it is not much above the average and I have more than enough disposable income after my taxes and as a single male with no kids I pay just about more taxes than any other individual in Australia. Socialised medicine works pretty well here.

[steelhamster]

I live in the UK, and our system although not perfect is a lot better than the US. As for the sheiks, they can PAY for it.

Socialised medicine isn't expensive or terrible, not compared to paying through the nose to an insurance corporation, that can refuse payment even though you paid for it.

[Scientisticsoviet]

Well, I happen to live in Quebec, the worst province in Canada for Health care, and yet compared to the countless stories I've heard from some acquaintances in the U.S., our problems seem rather small. Of course it does not mean that we should not improve. Reminds me of a famous quotation : "If it aint broke we can still make it better." Our problems are largely due to 2 opposite things: 1- Underfunding in order to justify privatization once the system deteriorates.

2- Bad Logistics.

[Brdstfff]

Why do people give my comments - which are all TRUE - thumbs down?

They must be socialists who don't want to hear the truth about socialized health care.

[steelhamster]

Do tell us.... I'm interested in hearing more Faux News propaganda

[juliarad13]

I think that if they had socialized medicine here it may be not that we'd have so many doctors leaving the country (because then where would they go for a private healthcare system) but they certainly would leave the profession! Same basic results, of course.

I used to be totally for socialized medicine but 7-8 years ago I started educating myself. I hope others do the same. Freedom costs something but it costs way more not to be free.

[steelhamster]

I'm very highly educated and was born and raised in the UK, so I know first hand that socialised medicine is a much better system than an insurance company based system.

Doctors in the UK massively support the system, they all are well paid and are happy to put their expertise into saving lives and not have to worry about wether or not a patient can afford it.

[THINKfutureShow]

45 million uninsured/12 million unemployed = 33 million or 73% can afford it, but wont pay it...

[schilzy1]

Thanks Bunkerman!! You don't have to live in Canada to experience socialized healthcare. Try the U.S. Military. I spent four years in the military and experienced it first hand. Long waits even for a common cold, inadequate care givers who did not have M.D.s, waiting lists for specialized care ie: physical therapy. I will take our current private system even with all of it's flaws any day of the week over the Dem's plan of Socialized healthcare.

[Brdstfff]

You've hit the nail on the head, schilzy1. That's socialized health care in a nutshell. Since you and I are both getting "thumbs down" it's obvious that Socialists who have never actually EXPERIENCED this kind of health care don't want to hear the truth about it.

I've lived with it for 40 years. I go to the Mayo Clinics when I need special care. I'd rather pay to do that than DIE waiting, as many of my fellow Canadians do.

[steelhamster]

You should go private then.... there is always that option, but for the vast majority of us who support socialised medicine, we are very satisfied.

[Brdstfff]

"You should go private then.... there is always that option"

Where I live, it's ILLEGAL to provide or access private care.

If I want private care, I have to go the the US.

[steelhamster]

Just as long as you can pay for it through the nose and hope they do not deny treatment on spurious grounds.

[THINKfutureShow]

I do pay for my health care in America, directly. I know exactly what I have to pay. In Canada, I did not pay directly, had no idea what i was actually paying, and paid dearly in very high income, sales and other taxes. I'd much rather know exactly what I'm paying directly.

[Brdstfff]

Good point, THINKfutureShow.

We don't pay health care premiums anymore and now they want to charge us for certain procedures.

We pay higher taxes than most countries and have worse health care than most countries.

I'll continue to go to the Mayo Clinics for health care - that is, unless Obastard shuts them down.

Socialists want everyone to live at the lowest possible level. That's what public health care does; gives the worst possible care to everyone.

[StudwithSwag]

People leave the US to go to Canada for certain healthcare services. Many doctors here send their patients to Canada RX because the prescription drugs are cheaper. Your point? Health insurance is expensive in America and there's no guarantee that you will be approved for everything. In any case, you sound as bad as Michael Moore--opposite end. If all the doctors are going to leave the US, where are they going to go exactly? Another country with socialized healthcare? lol... get a clue.

[Brdstfff]

If the US has socialized heath care, doctors and nurses who left Canada to work in the US might as well come home.

No one other than Canadians can get health care here. It's ILLEGAL to pay for it.

[Brdstfff]

I know you look at us as wusses, but we've changed our government and are no longer run by socialists, while America IS. You'll be sorry! Then we'll get to laugh.

Oh, and by the way, it isn't the Canadian economy that's in the toilet because of stupidity. 

Americans are the sole owners of that honour.

[Brdstfff]

"American institutions "steal" doctors that would otherwise go into the Canadian system"

This is true. Canadians have always suffered a lack of doctors and nurses because we have such good medical schools here that they no sooner graduate than they are courted by American institutions who, because America has 10 times the population of Canada, can pay more than Canada.

Hopefully some of them will come home when Obama starts American public health care, which is already doomed to fail.

[Brdstfff]

"which will attract 90% of the doctors "

Systems that have public/private care handle this problem by requiring doctors to spend as much time in the public system as in the private system.

What's wrong with me getting private care? It means I step out of line and pay for services so the people behind me in line who can't afford to pay can get those services quicker.

[jxwhit8]

Because of Capitalism. They do it better than anybody else. There are more millionaires in CA than the world combined. Why? Capitalism.. Sweet Capitalism.

[Brdstfff]

Having been born and raised here, I think I just MIGHT know a little bit more about what goes on than you do.

What happens in practice is QUITE different from the reality.

I'll continue to go to the Mayo Clinics for good care.

[Brdstfff]

Do you REALLY think the Canadian government would allow this kind of information to become public knowledge so the rest of the world knows what a failure our Health Care System is??? It would be far too embarrassing. Only Canadians know the real truth.

I've lived with it for 40 years. When I or anyone in my family needs good care, we go to the Mayo Clinics.

If you don't believe me, come and live here for 10 years and see what happens if you get really sick during that time.

[Rundstedt1]

So you have none, just what I thought, you're a lair. Haha - then to compound the lie by claiming Canadian censorship is even more ridicules. Just go back to your holocaust denier subscriptions where your lack of honesty fits right in.

[Brdstfff]

6. Wait times of YEARS to get treatment for life-threatening problems.

7. Newly arrived immigrants getting hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of care after not having put a DIME into the system.

8. I am not allowed - IT IS ILLEGAL - for me to get certain procedures AND it takes YEARS to surgeries even in LIFE OR DEATH situations.

You DO NOT want public health care!!!

IT IS A NIGHTMARE!!!

[Rundstedt1]

And if anything you said had any truth to it; it would be in the newspapers all the time. So where's your references, lets see those newspaper reports.

[Brdstfff]

As a Canadian FORCED to use Public Health Care, I can attest that Public Heath Care causes:

1. everyone to wait in line for the lowest level of health care possible.

2. hospitals to be full ALL THE TIME - including broom closets (not kidding).

3. people to die or have niscarriages in public waiting rooms after waiting 17 hours to see a doctor.

4. hospitals to be so filthy, you wouldn't want your DOG treated there.

5. A loss of doctors & nurses as they seek opportunities elsewhere.

[computerpurple]

Thank You so much for making this video i do appreciate you taking the time to tell your story. This is one of the top issues that had me voting against obama. The others being The Freedom of Choice Act. and the issue of Illegal Aliens.The reality is obama and the democrat party are socialist. 5 STARS. Keep up the excellent work.

[GodEqualsLove4ever]

oh my goodness--brilliant & intellectual--where have you been in my YT life?! Thank you for speaking the Truth. I was having a spa treatment the other day & the 'intellectual' Danish immigrant/owner was quoting to me about socialized healthcare from MM's Sicko--I couldn't believe any rational person would value his opinion--not worth 2 cents--you can just look @ him & know he knows nothing about healthcare! And because I'm of Finnish heritage, she couldn't believe I liked Palin & was conservativ

[GodEqualsLove4ever]

My British sister-in-law's father had chronic heart problems, needed surgery, but not URGENTLY, so he went on a waiting list. He continued to worsen as he waited & waited--then had the surgery & died the very next day. My Scottish cousin lived in South Africa for some time--she said the good Drs had migrated there because of better pay--therefore, she rec'd better healthcare in a foreign country than her own--the UK's socialized hc is having major problems--many people buy private for good hc.

[Brdstfff]

"many people buy private for good hc."

We can't do that in Canada - it's ILLEGAL - or I should say, it is in some places in Canada. As usual, Quebec gets to do whatever it wants and the rest of us have to pay for it.

[Rundstedt1]

(1/4)

Gee - you dont know your own land, or more likely you just like to bullshit. You don't think that what you say can be checked?

Source: Library of Parliament, From: "PRIVATE HEALTH CARE FUNDING AND DELIVERY UNDER THE CANADA HEALTH ACT"

[Rundstedt1]

(2/4)

[Six provinces (Alberta, British Columbia, Manitoba, Ontario, Prince Edward Island and Quebec) have prohibited private insurance from covering services insured under the provincial plan. (but they do not forbid insurance for items not covered or in supplement) In those provinces, private health care insurance is only complementary to the public plans.

[Brdstfff]

The only one of these that has actual private hospitals is Quebec. And Alberta has to pay for them.

Canada is quite a dysfunctional country.

[Rundstedt1]

(3/4)

As stated above, the Canada Health Act does not prevent private, or for-profit, providers from delivering and being reimbursed for publicly insured health services, so long as private payment by patients (through user charges and extra-billing) is not involved.

[Rundstedt1]

(4/4)

Perhaps more importantly, the Act does not prevent the provinces from allowing private health care providers, whether individual or institutional, to operate outside of the publicly funded health care system.(12) This suggests that the operation of fully private clinics or facilities is not precluded anywhere in Canada.]

[THINKfutureShow]

Agree 100%. Under socialized medicine, we are all paying for everyone else's treatments, therefore we have a vested interest in everyone elses health, in fact, more than our own, since people will slack. I've been in the emergency room in Canada when a group of people from a bar fight were brought in and were bragging about how cool it was that they were getting fixed up for free. Would socialized medicine increase risky behavior since everyone knows their care costs would be covered?

[THINKfutureShow]

Which is exactly what we are doing now, right?

[Rundstedt1]

This guy doesn't know what the hell he's talking about, just false unsubstainted BS. People in Canada are not denied necessary or timely care. It is common practice for doctors here in the US to book at least three appointments per appointment period and I have waited 4 or more hours waiting after the appointed time also. He's Lying about he medical plan too, there is no big oversight board reviewing each persons proceedures, thats just a lie like the rest of this.

[THINKfutureShow]

Wrong. The list of denied procedures is long and getting longer. Many Canadians need to travel to the US to get timely treatment. People have DIED in hospital emergency rooms. And the Medical Review Board is a feature of the $787B stimulus bill. So its in there. Read it.

[Rundstedt1]

Really, provide some sources about Canada for what you say that do not come from right-wing propaganda sites like heritage. And I have checked the bill, you haven't; that is not the function of the review board, you are obviously just listening fat drug addled Rush and fascist O'lie-ly.

[THINKfutureShow]

Sources: Personal Experience. Geez, do you people even watch the video, or just take your queues from the Obama Hype Machine.

[THINKfutureShow]

From The Bill: "(3) reduces health care costs resulting from inefficiency, medical errors, inappropriate care, duplicative care, and incomplete information; "(4) provides appropriate information to help guide medical decisions at the time and place of care;

A review board will tell your doctor what care is cost effective....

[Rundstedt1]

(1/4)

Personal experience - Bullshit, you lie about that like you lie about everything else, you have no legitimate sources about anything.

From Annenburg Fact Check, which is far from a left leaning organization:

[Conservative politicians have claimed that the stimulus bill requires that doctors follow government orders on what medical treatments can and can't be prescribed. But the bill doesn't say that.

[THINKfutureShow]

Do you know what PERSONAL EXPERIENCE means? It means I LIVED THROUGH IT. For 35 freaking years. I don't give a damn what Annenburg says, since its the same organization that refuses to release Obamas work product.

[Rundstedt1]

(2/4)

Actually, the legislation doesn't call for any kind of "rationing board," nor does it say the government can, should or will "deny" the public any medical treatments. In fact, the final compromise legislation includes additional language to make this even more clear. Yet, various conservative politicians and commentators have made such claims.

[THINKfutureShow]

It does right there. The government WILL DENY treatment if it deems it not cost-effective, even if its EFFECTIVE. They do it elsewhere. Why not do it here?

[Rundstedt1]

You are an ignorant deluded propagandist, who has no actual facts to back you up. Making shit up is lying, and saying what the Right-wing-Rush-O' Lielly-Hannity media made up, is lying also.

[Rundstedt1]

(3/4)

Both the House and Senate bills contained very similar provisions regarding health care and health IT. But additional language was added to the final compromise legislation aimed at dampening speculation that the bill would do much more than it actually said.

[Rundstedt1]

(4/4)

H.R. 1, conference report: (g) RULES OF CONSTRUCTION- (1) COVERAGE.-Nothing in this section shall be construed to permit the Council to mandate coverage, reimbursement, or other policies for any public or private payer.

(2) REPORTS AND RECOMMENDATIONS.-None of the reports submitted under this section or recommendations made by the Council shall be construed as mandates or clinical guidelines for payment, coverage, or treatment.]

[amsterdam78]

In case you want to know, ER visits in the US R just as long as in Canada. This country has a good trade in foreigners for medical care, but what think boy forgets to tell you is that all those foreigners come here for their boob jobs and face lifts, you see how he omits facts that could affect his statistics. He has openly lied about Canada on a number of occasions to make his points sound right, I have over 20 Canadian relatives and all of them feel sorry 4 us having this type of heath care.

[THINKfutureShow]

What I am recounting, o deluded one, is my, and everyone I know in Canadas, personal experience. Everything I say is complete truth. I am attempting to warn Americans about the realities behind the fiction of Socialized Medicine

[amsterdam78]

YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. As someone who travels to European and south east Asian countries, Universal heathcare has none of the negatives you state and all the benefits you don't. There are 47 million people in this country that can die from an ear infection because they have no insurance. To badmouth universal heathcare only makes you look more like a FOX stooge and less of an independent commentator. Have you even lived in Europe long enough to have an opinion like myself?

[BeeBoo311]

I can understand what you are saying. However, to me, its a matter of is it a right. To me, its not. We already have enough programs to take care of people that really cannot afford health care. This has caused way too many people to just become dependent on the government for everything. I know it sounds a bit harsh, but the way that I feel is, if you want health care, if it is that important to you, go bust your butt and work however many jobs it takes to afford it.

[amsterdam78]

Heathcare is a RIGHT, not a privilege to the hard working. What type of human being are you?

[THINKfutureShow]

Healthcare has NEVER been and should never be a right. The delusion continues. Oh and BTW, since you DID NOT WATCH THE VIDEO this is recounting MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE OF 35 YEARS OF CANADIAN SOCIALIZED MEDICINE. So what I am saying is the complete truth. Traveling to and living in those countries is completely different. Those citizens have been brainwashed by their respective educational systems that their social programs are the best in the world. I know, that happened in Canada too.

[amsterdam78]

Actually I would say you like to smear Canada for many reasons, i would possible even question if you were from Canada, but you are at least psycho enough to think that this system is the best in the world. I can tell you went for the "USA USA!" posters and now you actually believe that heathcare as a privilege is superior to heathcare as a right. Having visited dozens of socialistic; if not communist south east Asian, countries universal heathcare is a success NOT a failure.

[THINKfutureShow]

I am simply recounting my personal experience of 35 years of socialized medicine. Canada is a model that many Americans look to for an application of "universal health care". No matter what you say, I lived this nightmare and it is all 100% true. The reason you are being told by others that the health care is great is that Canadians have been brainwashed by their education system to never speak ill of Canada to non-Canadians. I had that for 35 years myself.

[amsterdam78]

You do not represent the NATION of Canadians, and they are all brainwashed. Please, your the brainwashed one, probable to many american action films as a child. Now you think you can shit red white and blue.

[THINKfutureShow]

Ah yes - you must have watched show #125 and are now using profanity to depict your passion on this issue. I experienced all of my primary and secondary education in Canada, and had 35 years of media telling me that Canada and the Canadian system of EVERYTHING was the best thing on earth. Its no wonder everyone IN Canada says that Canada is wonderful, they are still being "educated". Most Canadians I know who left Canada now realize they were indoctrinated. Our eyes are open now.

[BeeBoo311]

It is not a right. No where in the constitution does it say that it is. Yes, the government is responsible for the general welfare, but that is only in the sense that there is absolutely no options available. If you have the ability or option to work and pay for health insurance, it is not the responsibility of the government.

[amsterdam78]

1) It's a human right, you are human i assume.

2) The president himself said it was a right, along with the rest of the world.

[BeeBoo311]

It is not a right. Your points are completely pointless. I am a human. I have health insurance because I pay for it. There are options available for payment plans and such if your deductible is too high. If there is an emergency, you are not going to be denied health care, you just may have to pay more than if you had insurance and you can set up a pay plan.

[BeeBoo311]

As far as point number two, the president, nor does the rest of the world determine what is and what is not a right. That is determined in The Constitution.

[amsterdam78]

There is nothing more basic then the right to heathcare, from our earliest days as small communities we had social medicine, we lost it in some places thanks to capitalism, but most of the world...well everyone except the US has a superior system that leaves no one uncovered. You advocate emergency rooms for heathcare, or are you more of an advocate for social Darwinism, where you are OK with millions dying due to lack of care, because they were not worthy in society's eyes.

[BeeBoo311]

I am more of an advocate for social Darwinism. Sorry, that I don't poo poo it and feel sorry for people because they are either too stupid or too cheap to pay for health care. I take care of myself and whomever I choose to help. I, nor does the government, have the money to take care of the millions you speak of. That is just reality.

[BeeBoo311]

I do what I can with my money and I'm not going to feel sorry and feel like it it is my fault because I don't run around poor and broke because I have given my money to a bunch of people who don't want to work.

[amsterdam78]

The reality is that a privatized heath system is one it's way out. We are soon going to have mandated coverage, which is a bridge to single-payer universal heathcare. Whether you like it or not we are going to drag you kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

[BeeBoo311]

We'll see. If that is the case, I think I will just cut back on hours at work and decrease my salary so that I can all of the sudden receive all the benefits the government has to offer. I think that is what a lot of people will do and then we will see how great our economy is. We'll all sit around doing nothing, having nothing invented. The research and development of this country will struggle but well damn, we will all be healthy?? Or will we because who will the doctors be??

[amsterdam78]

We are the last place in the world that's like this, where are they going to move...an even more socialized system LOL. The only thing that will change is that people wont be afraid of losing their homes or lives due to medial care. The doctors will adapt as they have all over the world.

[BeeBoo311]

Oh, I'm not saying there won't be any doctors. However, there will be no competition, no adequate monetary compensation, so why would they want to do their job well. Why, when they are spending time with their family on vacation would they respond to that urgent page that the hospital needs them? There is no reason to if no matter what they do they receive the same benefits as someone else. Who is that someone?? It ends up being no one if nobody has a sense of self responsibility.

[THINKfutureShow]

So what you are saying is to force doctors into a box. Make them employees of the state, and take orders from the state? I don't know about you but I'd prefer that my doctor prescribe my treatment, and not a federal official. And I'd be willing to bet that there are other places in the world which still have private health care. And lastly, this country has the best health care on earth - probably due to it not being universal.

[amsterdam78]

This country does not have the best heathcare in the world, we fall short on all fronts except plastic surgery.

[BeeBoo311]

I agree everyone should have health care and I make sure I take care of my family and they all have health care but just because it is good for people to have or they should have it does not make it the responsibility of the government.

[amsterdam78]

besides the moral mandate that we have all the same amount of heahcare, there is the millions of lives and millions of dollars we would save by supporting a socialist system in heathcare.

[BeeBoo311]

Are you kidding?? Moral mandate? Who are you or anyone to determine what my morals should be? Do you also get to determine my religion since a lot of people develop their morals through their religion. My religion says that morally abortion is murder. Does that mean the government should adopt the morals of my religion??? Where do you draw the line? Whose morals do you accept? Do you hold a huge election to develop a majority rules "set of morals"?

[Fockersnextdoor]

Socialized Medicine is just a way to dictate how people live there lives.Any activity that may be deemed unhealthy or dangerous can be outlawed, because it will be a drain on the health-care system. No more cheeseburger or potato chips.

[EeyoreWhyBother]

I've actually been through the Canadian medical system. I was in and out of the hospital for 2 years. And i got to say this guy is full of SHIT! I did not wait one minute in the emergency room. I did not wait one minute to get an x-ray or operation. And best of all my parents didn't end up losing there house because we were poor.

[StudwithSwag]

Agree. I have family in Canada and either this guy was living in the straight up ghetto or he's blowing hot air.

[Brdstfff]

Care in the Canadian Health Care system is abysmal and GETTING WORSE.

[MadBadVoodo]

Five Stars!!

[bmtimv]

I hate having all this government jammed down my throat. One of the reasons why our healthcare isn't top notch is because there are government cobwebs in our system. You don't have to look far to see socialized medicine fails, look at vet hospitals, the former Indian universal care and our medicare system.

[jp3711nc1]

We are going to destroy it because idiots want Universal Health care oh and people who are to lazy to buy there own.