Fynny his name was Jones or Lee or . . . Yeah, like those aren't common names . . . Why didn't you keep pursuing it. I knwo I would if I thought the guy i was having coffee with could be the most notrious serial killer of that era . . . Or I'd run like hell away from him. One commandment broken - Thou shalt not lie - - - LOL
DNA has proven Allen did not have anything to do with letters sent to The SF Chroonicle - nor did palm prints found on letters the Zodiac wrote match his. The fingerprint on the taxi did NOT match - Nor did his handwriting match any of the letters sent. even those thought to be bogus. The DNA and palm print (due to new technology) came to light after his death. Would you like to apologize to him now? Little late, I'd say. Who you gonna blame next?
In all this game, the devil is losing and at the end will be accused of everything because GOD don’t want any rivals. Conclusion: live at the full in the freedom of GOD (praying in a right form, following the INSTRUCTIONS in the Bible - keeping the 10 commandments - including keeping the Saturday as the 7th day etc.) instead of in the incapacity and limited power of devil because he is just a temporary puppet. Jesus Christ is the savior and hope.
On a final note i'd just like to say how i find it pathetic that Greysmith believes just because the perpetrator of some violent crimes will reach out to authorities and offer to help just as Allen did and that alone makes him a viable suspect. He won't however acknowledge the fact that DNA and Palm prints believed to have belonged to the Zodiac ruled Allen out as a suspect. Not to mention the handwriting itself. He wasn't the Zodiac and if he was he was simply the best criminal to ever live.
I just wanted to say thank you for uploading this. There was another version of this and still is on youtube but it had poor picture and audio quality. Thank you.
There was no DNA testing at the time those letters were written. Because the case is so old, you need to keep a prespective on what was available at the time the murders happened. Think of no cell phones (another 15 years before they were around) or personal computers (Steve Jobs was stil in junior high)
Personally... i think that Allen was not the Zodiac. However the guy was very intelligent but still a not carrying a full deck if you know what i mean. I think he actually enjoyed the notoriety he received from being the prime suspect of the case. That much almost seems clear to me.
alan was fired for doing horrible things at the school he worked, he lived near the victims and attack sites, he wore the same boots as killer and had zodiac watch.....if he wasnt the killer he knew who was and worked with him or the killer knew alan but alan didnt know that person was the killer...theres to much for alan to be 100% non contact with the case
Say what you will...Lee Allen was a pedophile. How many fucking coincidences does one need? He lived near Darlene Ferrin's house. He called her house the night of the murder. I mean..wtf...
@davehutchinson67 A setup? I wouldnt entirely discount Allen either.. like you say, too much pointed too him. I do think some of that was real convenient. The only reason police initially contacted Allen was due to a complaint from his neighbor because they had a tiff over them beating a dog.. Allen loved animals I guess. The lady called the cops over this argument. How Santa Rosa tied in with Allen and any murders seems to be a mystery, other than one eye witness who could be wrong about Allen.
I can see where its fun to speculate later, and Allen did have a lot going for him other than he seems to have been excluded on DNA and or handwriting, maybe fingerprints as well? If any of this is accurate then Allen remains suspect. Theres no way I would trust any of the physical evidence gathered back in the day. I'm shocked that with all the thinkers we have had on this case that Allen remains at the top of the list.
@mark85la11 yes, i agree with that, and i belive that the zodiac killer wrote the letters, by him selfs, like i think that you also would belive he did, and that that is the thing that is proving that it is not Allen that were the zodiac.
@mark85la11 Allen said he never licked stamps. In fact, no one in my own family licks stamps either they use a sponge. Anyone who uses mail a lot does this.
Further, DNA can be wrong. New studies are finding that DNA from unborn siblings (like a twin) can be found in both kids. There's more that I dont understand too, it reminds me a bit of the lie detector test.. it can be helpful but not absolute in some cases. Still unsure, but I dont think it was ALA.. However, I would not give up fully.
They used DNA to determine that he did not write the letters??? I thought they used hand writing analysis to clear him of the letters and stale DNA testing years later to be inconclusive that it was his because the profile did not match. That was why the whole right hand/left hand writing was critical to use in order to get samples of him writing right handed. The testimony of his "friends" - makes me a believer it was him. That's not coincidental stuff.
@motorocket19 Where th ehell were these schmucks when the killings were going on - Under the same rocks from which they have crawled out from underr to garner these few minutes of fame. They are either out and out liars - or felons for harboring a murderer for so many years. I'm going with liars . . .
@mark85la11 you dick head its like more than 30 years old...u think there were no police fingerprints on it by then or etc...at that time there was no dna testing so it wasnt preserved for dna testing...
@guitarplayer4real i mean that if you do not belive in the physical evidence, and that, that is also how all the other people that are on this case is doing, then it is logical enough for me that we do not get any real prove about who it were, if it all are only being build on stories about some persons that acted a little weird at that time.
@Neptun1971 and i also mean that, we can not look at a person and know if it is a psycopat or not, when i mean that psycopats are most often persons, that are actually acting weird in very if ever, in places where there are too many witnesses.
@Neptun1971 I agree that Allen was not the killer type, more of a pathetic personality who probably didnt have the guts to be confrontational with men and women. It doesnt make full sense even though a lot points to him.
I think Z was a ring leader. That is, that Z had help and may have had a network of occultists or something similar. Its just a gut based on everything I've read. I also think Allen could have been implicated purposely, OR was a part of this group on some level.
@guitarplayer4real Are you kidding me there are eye witness accounts of leigh saying he would call himself the zodiac,he had a zodiac watch,the same style boots the killer wore. While he was locked up in jail for molesting the children the letters stopped,what else do you need,he was in lakeside when the murders happiend, the only survivor identified him as the the killer of his girlfriend at the lake. I think others tried to take credit for the zodiac,but were not all involved together.
@Neptun1971 I think Z did the art. I think Z did the notes. I think Z gave all the clues and played the games with police... I think Z was very intelligent, possibly a pilot or navigator and possibly was an artist by trade who didnt do a lot of the dirty work himself, if any.
Again, its just a gut. Many think Z had accomplices and I have other reasons that make me agree with that. A group like the Mansons, or maybe a couple of siblings or father son team. Somethings not right...
Ralph Spinelli does not have much credibility. Like many of the other witnesses, his memory mysteriously improves with age. They remember facts later in life that they didn't recall at the time following the murders.
@Robespierre7 Are his stories imbellished you think? I have been interested since I was a kid. The 70's in the bay area were a bit crazy. We also had the Hitchhiker murderer who killed many, never solved. Mainly my onlyinterest with Allen now is that my father and he were neighbors on Santa Rosa Av in the 70's. I dont remember him but I was within spitting range of him on many occasions apparently. My grandparents owned 3 rigs in a nicer trailer park directly across the street, I was there often
@guitarplayer4real i mean that a story is not a good enough prove in a case like this, if non of the evidence, like the DNA and so on, does not match him, and that, if people just want to make him being the zodiac kiler, just because that he were a pedophile, is a very weird thing to do, when i mean that it is to very different things, where i mean that to be a serial killer, can only be a psycopats work, but that, that is not how it is, if it is about being a pedophile.
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Fynny his name was Jones or Lee or . . . Yeah, like those aren't common names . . . Why didn't you keep pursuing it. I knwo I would if I thought the guy i was having coffee with could be the most notrious serial killer of that era . . . Or I'd run like hell away from him. One commandment broken - Thou shalt not lie - - - LOL
SeanMBryans 1 day ago
DNA has proven Allen did not have anything to do with letters sent to The SF Chroonicle - nor did palm prints found on letters the Zodiac wrote match his. The fingerprint on the taxi did NOT match - Nor did his handwriting match any of the letters sent. even those thought to be bogus. The DNA and palm print (due to new technology) came to light after his death. Would you like to apologize to him now? Little late, I'd say. Who you gonna blame next?
SeanMBryans 1 day ago
3:53 ".. he'd startle you"
Is there anything that wouldn't startle this sloth?
Skindoggiedog 3 days ago
Two thumbs down huh? That's surprising.
mark85la11 3 weeks ago
@mark85la11 wasn't zodiac.
Knigh7z 1 week ago
@Knigh7z
lol right, I wasn't, I'd have to be 90 years old.
mark85la11 1 week ago
@mark85la11 no. arthur leigh allen wasn't
Knigh7z 6 days ago
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In all this game, the devil is losing and at the end will be accused of everything because GOD don’t want any rivals. Conclusion: live at the full in the freedom of GOD (praying in a right form, following the INSTRUCTIONS in the Bible - keeping the 10 commandments - including keeping the Saturday as the 7th day etc.) instead of in the incapacity and limited power of devil because he is just a temporary puppet. Jesus Christ is the savior and hope.
diptdipt 1 month ago
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On a final note i'd just like to say how i find it pathetic that Greysmith believes just because the perpetrator of some violent crimes will reach out to authorities and offer to help just as Allen did and that alone makes him a viable suspect. He won't however acknowledge the fact that DNA and Palm prints believed to have belonged to the Zodiac ruled Allen out as a suspect. Not to mention the handwriting itself. He wasn't the Zodiac and if he was he was simply the best criminal to ever live.
polskie90 1 month ago
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polskie90 1 month ago
Comment removed
polskie90 1 month ago
I just wanted to say thank you for uploading this. There was another version of this and still is on youtube but it had poor picture and audio quality. Thank you.
polskie90 1 month ago
Did he say "teaching trampoline" to little girls?
yoohootube 1 month ago
@yoohootube Yes. "Trampoline" is actually a sport. Sort of like Gymnastics.
polskie90 1 month ago
They know the zodiac was highly intelligent do you really think he would be stupid enough to
leave dna on an envelope he knew the cops would look under with a microscope?
SuperWicker1 1 month ago
@SuperWicker1
There was no DNA testing at the time those letters were written. Because the case is so old, you need to keep a prespective on what was available at the time the murders happened. Think of no cell phones (another 15 years before they were around) or personal computers (Steve Jobs was stil in junior high)
motorocket19 1 month ago
@motorocket19 Have you ever taken a look at Lawrence Cain. There is more evidence
on him than there is on Lee or Giekowski. Co workers Have verified Giekowski was out
of the country on at least two of the murders. Have you ever checked out zodiac
killers.com Harvey Hines report on Larry cain is pretty convincing,he was living in tahoe
at the time,you should check it out!
SuperWicker1 1 month ago
Personally... i think that Allen was not the Zodiac. However the guy was very intelligent but still a not carrying a full deck if you know what i mean. I think he actually enjoyed the notoriety he received from being the prime suspect of the case. That much almost seems clear to me.
polskie90 1 month ago
alan was fired for doing horrible things at the school he worked, he lived near the victims and attack sites, he wore the same boots as killer and had zodiac watch.....if he wasnt the killer he knew who was and worked with him or the killer knew alan but alan didnt know that person was the killer...theres to much for alan to be 100% non contact with the case
Excecutioner147 1 month ago
@Excecutioner147
Allen was a pedophile and the evidence was all circumstantial and he wasn't charged. I don't believe he was Zodiac, but who knows.
mark85la11 1 month ago
Say what you will...Lee Allen was a pedophile. How many fucking coincidences does one need? He lived near Darlene Ferrin's house. He called her house the night of the murder. I mean..wtf...
davehutchinson67 2 months ago
@davehutchinson67 A setup? I wouldnt entirely discount Allen either.. like you say, too much pointed too him. I do think some of that was real convenient. The only reason police initially contacted Allen was due to a complaint from his neighbor because they had a tiff over them beating a dog.. Allen loved animals I guess. The lady called the cops over this argument. How Santa Rosa tied in with Allen and any murders seems to be a mystery, other than one eye witness who could be wrong about Allen.
guitarplayer4real 1 month ago
I can see where its fun to speculate later, and Allen did have a lot going for him other than he seems to have been excluded on DNA and or handwriting, maybe fingerprints as well? If any of this is accurate then Allen remains suspect. Theres no way I would trust any of the physical evidence gathered back in the day. I'm shocked that with all the thinkers we have had on this case that Allen remains at the top of the list.
guitarplayer4real 2 months ago
@guitarplayer4real
Allen's DNA was tested as not the one who wrote the letters.
mark85la11 2 months ago 5
@mark85la11 yes, i agree with that, and i belive that the zodiac killer wrote the letters, by him selfs, like i think that you also would belive he did, and that that is the thing that is proving that it is not Allen that were the zodiac.
Neptun1971 2 months ago
@mark85la11 Allen said he never licked stamps. In fact, no one in my own family licks stamps either they use a sponge. Anyone who uses mail a lot does this.
Further, DNA can be wrong. New studies are finding that DNA from unborn siblings (like a twin) can be found in both kids. There's more that I dont understand too, it reminds me a bit of the lie detector test.. it can be helpful but not absolute in some cases. Still unsure, but I dont think it was ALA.. However, I would not give up fully.
guitarplayer4real 1 month ago
@mark85la11
They used DNA to determine that he did not write the letters??? I thought they used hand writing analysis to clear him of the letters and stale DNA testing years later to be inconclusive that it was his because the profile did not match. That was why the whole right hand/left hand writing was critical to use in order to get samples of him writing right handed. The testimony of his "friends" - makes me a believer it was him. That's not coincidental stuff.
motorocket19 1 month ago
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@motorocket19 Where th ehell were these schmucks when the killings were going on - Under the same rocks from which they have crawled out from underr to garner these few minutes of fame. They are either out and out liars - or felons for harboring a murderer for so many years. I'm going with liars . . .
SeanMBryans 1 day ago
@mark85la11 you dick head its like more than 30 years old...u think there were no police fingerprints on it by then or etc...at that time there was no dna testing so it wasnt preserved for dna testing...
waynerooneyfan4ever 4 weeks ago
@waynerooneyfan4ever
Why are you calling me a dickhead?
mark85la11 4 weeks ago 3
@mark85la11 lol sorry i just watched the movie zodiac and was a lil hot blooded cuz arthur leigh allen didnt get what he deserved... =/
waynerooneyfan4ever 3 weeks ago
@guitarplayer4real i mean that if you do not belive in the physical evidence, and that, that is also how all the other people that are on this case is doing, then it is logical enough for me that we do not get any real prove about who it were, if it all are only being build on stories about some persons that acted a little weird at that time.
Neptun1971 2 months ago
@Neptun1971 and i also mean that, we can not look at a person and know if it is a psycopat or not, when i mean that psycopats are most often persons, that are actually acting weird in very if ever, in places where there are too many witnesses.
Neptun1971 2 months ago
@Neptun1971 I agree that Allen was not the killer type, more of a pathetic personality who probably didnt have the guts to be confrontational with men and women. It doesnt make full sense even though a lot points to him.
I think Z was a ring leader. That is, that Z had help and may have had a network of occultists or something similar. Its just a gut based on everything I've read. I also think Allen could have been implicated purposely, OR was a part of this group on some level.
guitarplayer4real 1 month ago
@guitarplayer4real Are you kidding me there are eye witness accounts of leigh saying he would call himself the zodiac,he had a zodiac watch,the same style boots the killer wore. While he was locked up in jail for molesting the children the letters stopped,what else do you need,he was in lakeside when the murders happiend, the only survivor identified him as the the killer of his girlfriend at the lake. I think others tried to take credit for the zodiac,but were not all involved together.
SuperWicker1 1 month ago
@Neptun1971 I think Z did the art. I think Z did the notes. I think Z gave all the clues and played the games with police... I think Z was very intelligent, possibly a pilot or navigator and possibly was an artist by trade who didnt do a lot of the dirty work himself, if any.
Again, its just a gut. Many think Z had accomplices and I have other reasons that make me agree with that. A group like the Mansons, or maybe a couple of siblings or father son team. Somethings not right...
guitarplayer4real 1 month ago
Ralph Spinelli does not have much credibility. Like many of the other witnesses, his memory mysteriously improves with age. They remember facts later in life that they didn't recall at the time following the murders.
Robespierre7 4 months ago
@Robespierre7 Are his stories imbellished you think? I have been interested since I was a kid. The 70's in the bay area were a bit crazy. We also had the Hitchhiker murderer who killed many, never solved. Mainly my onlyinterest with Allen now is that my father and he were neighbors on Santa Rosa Av in the 70's. I dont remember him but I was within spitting range of him on many occasions apparently. My grandparents owned 3 rigs in a nicer trailer park directly across the street, I was there often
guitarplayer4real 2 months ago
@guitarplayer4real i mean that a story is not a good enough prove in a case like this, if non of the evidence, like the DNA and so on, does not match him, and that, if people just want to make him being the zodiac kiler, just because that he were a pedophile, is a very weird thing to do, when i mean that it is to very different things, where i mean that to be a serial killer, can only be a psycopats work, but that, that is not how it is, if it is about being a pedophile.
Neptun1971 2 months ago