The Claims of Christ in Light of Islamic Monotheism--part 1

[omairkhan123]

in order to understand video technology come on man.....and secondly IT is mentioned very clearly in Quran that this is (Quran)is the final word of ALLAH and there had been many prophets sent to the earth but they were for that time and people Quran is for all times and for everybody thats (that should clear the Dillema for many people the part in which the guy in the video was saying

[cclorance]

Could you clarify this comment? I am not sure what you are saying. Where in the Torah, Nevi'im, Ketuvim, or Injil does it say that the teachings of those books were only for certain people living at certain times? The Lord Jesus taught very clearly the opposite (Mt. 5:18, Lk. 21:33).

[omairkhan123]

Hi.its not written in those books but its quite clear from the teaching of those books that they were for that time only ...the authenicty of the books revealed before quran is in question here my friend as they have been interpreted by humans and no one has got the orignal book or the manuscript(Torah-Injil-Zuboor)­and Jesus (Pbuh) never claimed to be the lord himself as my argument over here is that Lord does not have to come to this world as human in order to understand problems of humans

[cclorance]

You admit that the books mentioned do not say that their contents were only for certain times and peoples. I have given a couple references from the Bible that clearly articulate that Biblical teachings are for all times. Again I point simply to Mt. 5:18. Secondly, where in the Quran does it say that the Bible is corrupt? Jesus claims to be Lord in numerous places (e.g. Mt. 22:41-45, Mk. 2:28, Jn. 13:13). And he never denied being God or Lord.

[omairkhan123]

ref links are not opening can u please paste the liks so that I can answer your question

[cclorance]

It isn't possible to post links on channel. Just look up the references in a Bible. You have claimed some level of familiarity with the Bible. I assume that means that you have access to one.

[omairkhan123]

does not comprehend why would any God wanna do it its simply not logical...Jesus was a miracle of God as he was placed in Mary womb without any male intervention ....Y would the creator

want to become the product in order to understand it better why ..why it does not seem logical the inventor of the video player did not had to become a cassete

[cclorance]

The Bible clearly states why God sent His son into the world. It is because of love.

[omairkhan123]

but in injil it is written that "I am the son, the father and the holy ghost"" how wud u explain the concept of trinity . in which all is one.???

[cclorance]

Where in the Injil is this written?

[cclorance]

Your "understand it better" line is a straw man. Neither I, nor Sam, nor any Christian I know is claiming that God became man in order to better understand man. Rather you might say that He did this so that we may better understand Him. However, the main reason is to become a substitutionary sacrifice for our sin.

[omairkhan123]

okay ..if u say that he became a man so that we understand him better....so0o my my friend does the God wanted to make our ancestor understand him better ....??not us and if our ancestors crucified him he paid for the sins of our ancestors or ours or our future babies ..??and why did God wanted to pay for our sins please explain.?

[cclorance]

Even a very light reading of the New Testament would answer these questions for you. Why did God want to pay for our sins? For God so loved the world. And the sacrifice was a once-and-for-all-time thing. (Jn. 3:16, Heb. 10:10)

[omairkhan123]

So as he has payed for our sins ....so we are free to do whatever from then on .......my friend you are on a very thick line over here...when u say that this shakes the whole moral ethical system of the world, If the Christ (PBUH) has paid for all the sins than the concept of heaven and hell becomes nullified...I am unable to understand the logic..

[gryphon12186]

That is such an interesting point brother...here is the logic as best I understand it. The whole point we come to Christ is BECAUSE we are sinful and we want to be rid of that guilt.

[gryphon12186]

Say we found out that there is a doctor who can miraculously take care of this cancer that we have, that he has done it before, and all we have to do is go to him and he will remove it for no money (because we will never have enough ro pay for ourselves) then why would you still hold on to this cancer? Why continue in the sin that was the whole reason that you sought forgiveness and justification from the Lord Christ? It is like a dog that returns to its vomit.

[omairkhan123]

neither was he God or son of God ....even Bible says it....first of all this phenomenon of God coming on earth and getting the punishment for our sins

[cclorance]

Where does the Bible say that Jesus is not the son of God?

[omairkhan123]

NO religious scripture (Except Quran) is in its orignal condition even I can produce 4 types of Old testaments....firstly I would like to again clarify that Jesus son of Mary (or ESSA Ibn-Marium) is considered to be one of the mightiest messengers of ALLAH but

[shamounian]

really? produce the responses by these Muslims for all of us to see. Claims without proof are cheap.

[Kite208]

Everything what you said have been refuted by many muslims.

You are not the 1st who raised these arguments.

[cclorance]

As I've said before, saying that arguments have been refuted is not the same thing as refuting them. Do you have a point?

[Kite208]

As I've said before? Before what? This is the 1st time ive seen you.

When was "I've said before"?

[cclorance]

Sorry, Kite, I've said it before to the others folks who have said almost word for word what you just said. Anyway, my point is, saying that arguments have been refuted is not the same thing as actually refuting them.

[Kite208]

2 days? Sorry I am late.

Anyway, I have met many Christians, in life & in online, have raised these arguments over and over again. So it really get trining for me to refute them over and over again.

You can find the refutation of these argument in any muslim website. Like Call to monothiest web site.

[cclorance]

Sorry to be so troublesome to you. However, it is difficult for me to understand how you can be a true Muslim and grow tired of refuting arguments against Islam. That is, if you actually believe the message of Islam.

[Kite208]

Part 1/2

However, There is an intersting question that I need to ask.

I keep telling Christian I have a propblem that God become a man and eats like a man and goes to toilet like a man.

They keep saying "Its is human side and as long as its not a sin"

So? Why Christian have a problem when Jesus having a wife? Its not a sin right? so why?

I know I know. Youre going to say "Well it dosnt matter God didnt chose a wife and he will never will be since he has no time to waste on marrige"

[cclorance]

Kite wrote: "I know I know. Youre going to say "Well it dosnt matter God didnt chose a wife and he will never will be since he has no time to waste on marrige""

I cannot imagine a situation in which I would ever so much as think, let alone say that. I am sorry that in your mind God is not strong enough, wise enough, or great enough to enter into His creation and take on full humanity.

[Kite208]

Part 2/2

Yes, You right. But Does your God allow (Not he did or will he do it) himself to become a man and chose a wife?

If NO, then why not? you have no problem with God eating and going to toilet. Marriage is not a sin. So why?

If YES, then Auzu Billah you have brought abomination.

[cclorance]

Why do Christians have a problem with the idea that Jesus had a wife? Simply because He did not have a wife. The Bible is pretty clear about this fact. If the Bible said that Jesus had a wife, then I wouldn't have a problem with it. What I don't understand is this . . . what the heck is your point? Are you simply dodging the main issues because you know you can't hack it? It is interesting that you are too tired to refute Sam's arguments by not to tired to chase these silly rabbit trails.

[Kite208]

Part 1/2

1st, where is the heck my other comments? I posted 4 comments and he only allowed 2 of them, Maybe I should PM you?

"I am sorry that in your mind God is not strong enough, wise enough, or great enough to enter into His creation" (cclorance)

How is God coming out from a women and coverd with filth and blood and became a helpess little creature that can't even feed his own without his Mother assistance is showing you Gods power & strength?

[cclorance]

I don't share your belittling view of birth - you seem to be grossed out by it, I'm not convinced that God is. Nevertheless, the birth of Christ is a demonstration of the power of God to enter into His own creation as truly incarnate. You seem to be suggesting that matter is inherently evil, I don't agree with that view either. I also wasn't aware that it was an Islamic perspective. You sound kind of gnostic.

[Kite208]

Part 1/2

"If the Bible said that Jesus had a wife, then I wouldn't have a problem with it." (cclorance)

Auzu Billah you have brought abomination. What next? If the Bible told you God became a Golden Calf, you will believe it?

"what the heck is your point?" (cclorance)

My piont is that you should learn your place and respect Gods statues. For its a blasphemy & abomination from bringing God down from heaven to earth.

Peace

P.S.

I will PM you the refutation.

[cclorance]

What is the abomination? You lost me.

Yes, I believe the Bible because it is the word of God. You speak of God's Holy Word as revealed in Torah, Nevi-im, Ketuvim, and Injil in a very disrespectful tone (it sounds to me). Why do you do this? Do you deny God's Word?

You say that it is blasphemy & abomination to "bring God down from heaven to earth". Who is bringing God down? It isn't the Christ-follower's claim that we bring God down. Rather, God came down of His own will.