Ah, the arguement of the tech manuals of Star Wars and Star Trek...Star Wars uses more Gigawats of power than Star Trek. Ok, here are two different galaxies in two different time periods. DEFINE the unit of measurement of a gigawat. What one galaxy uses for it's scale may be completely different than the other. Bottom line, PHASERS are a more advanced weapon than LASERS. Roddenberry made sure to use ACTUAL science in Star Trek (actually had advisors from NASA help out). Lucas used fantasy.
@GalacticNonsense Star Trek half the time makes no sense. Your right about the whole power thing thats why you can't compare ships from different sic fi fictions, its just stupid. I gave up the Star Wars vs Star Trek thing because they are totally different. For example a space station called the zeus cannon from final fantasy can generate 120 giga joules to destroy an astroid, yet the Enterprise with 500 giga joules can't? But I think its wrong for Star Trek to call all other sci fi weak.
Star Trek will ALWAYS defeat Star Wars. Here are TWO reasons why:
1.) Q snaps his fingers. Star Wars galaxy vanishes out of existance. Q also makes sure that by eliminating the Star Wars galaxy, it has no effect on the timelines of the rest of the universe.
2.) The Empire from Star Wars LOST to a race of teddy bears and one turncoat (Vader). I guess the Federation is a better fighting force than the Ewoks.
@GalacticNonsense Thats just not fair to use Q, if you are going to do that well I'll just have send a message to the Ori from the StarGate Universe to kick Q's ass.
@GalacticNonsense Coming from a guy that needs to "summon" a deity. Ok well Star Wars has something better than gay Q.. Immortal gods of the Sith; basically they are deities like the Ori and they have a nice brainwashed telekinesis Sith followers to blow up the Feds. You wanted to play dirty ^_^ Live long and you know the rest...
@GalacticNonsense Oh and thanks for wasting my time. I have to talk some sense into another guy on a fantasy forum, I just proved I was right and now he just said kill yourself?
God thats insulting, make several imperial star destroyer get owned by Voyager, the ship that could barley get back from a quadrant. Enterprise-D would get ripped to shreds by Slave-1 the facts are already there, yet people keep insulting Star Wars. I love Capt. Janeway and I ordered STO but this is just Trek Fans being Assholes again.
@Idazmi7 I knew the Game was going free 2 play before you did MORON! I said I was ordering for the DISC,So that I didn't have to go through hell to install the STO download and transfer it to my Mac.
@Idazmi7 "You ordered nothing" What? So the Golden edition with the T shirt and post cards, map and dlc code and concept art book with disc is nothing? Oh so the items I bought are worthless?
@Idazmi7 I ordered nothing, I gladly paid money for the game, unlike you freebie assholes. people that pay keep the updates and added content going. Call yourself a Trek Fan, I call you a "Douchebag"
Thanks for making this. I'm personally tired of seeing Star Wars beating Star Trek ruthlessly. I find it offensive that way. People these days make it look like Star Trek captains and their advanced technology fail to annihalate the slow, lumbering star destroyers, whose only real advantage is the intimidation from their size.
@NonstopRam Me too. It seems to be 300megatons to 5 petatons. Also, torpedoes are actually variable yield, meaning you can choose how big the explosion is.
To all SW fans:Sorry, but the ones of you,they tought Star destroyers would kill the Voyager,should notice,that these star destroyers are Victory Class Destroyers,not Imperial Class^^and we should all know,that Victory class isn t as strong as the Imperial Class,so it is "Realistic" that these destroyers get destroyed.
Well the thing is that (I do not allow stupid Star Wars fans to comment on my comment) that no matter what fan made "calculations of weapons power etc." say, lasers wouldn't even penentrate Voyagers deflector shields (oh come on SW fans you gotta accept that(and don't complain!))
@CommanderWolf888 I was comparing the normal combat ability of Data vs. Jedi without the Force. If the Jedi relies on combat skills Data would thump him. And besides, Grevious with 4 light sabers is nothing. All Data must do is whip out a phaser and bang. A Jedi with the force, I do agree, would pound Data up, but I'm sure that if Data had prep time he and Geordi could cook something up :)
@CommanderWolf888 ST weapons can't pierce an X-Wing's shields? You're just saying that! Don't get your info from that "Essay in five minutes." I compare sci fi franchises like this all the time, and I've learned, never take info from the tech manuals of any of the franchises and compare them. You have to compare combat ability (what feats the ships have accomplished in battle.)
You know that star trek weapons can't even penetrate the shields of an X WING, right? This video is inacurate to what would really happen in this situation.
I may just not be educated in this field but i thought the whole disadvantage of the proton torpedo is that they are virtually ineffective against shields.......
Oh please, Those Victory Class Star Destroyers have a crew compliment of 6,000 plus all their super weapons and fighters and guns. This fight should be over in 5 seconds.
Janeway: This is Captain--
Imp Officer: Launch the fighters and fire turbo lasers and ions cannons
Tuvok: We're receiving fire from Everywhere captain! Too many enemies to fire on! Shields buckling.
U may call me a nerd about starwars and startrek but how dose a photon torpedo destroy a victory class star destroyer??? plus they only shot torpedos back THEY DON'T EVEN have topedo launchers!! Where's the lasers and ion cannons and stuff?!?!?!
The Star Destroyers are obviously weaker, seeing as how they don't even have turbo lasers or ion cannons like thy should. Plus, they each have 6 flights of tie fighter and I don't see any of them
As much fun as it is seeing Star Destroyers getting popped like balloons.....that didn't really seem like much of a challenge. Try going up against a couple Super Star Destroyers!
@CommanderWolf888 a little slow on the draw huh??? lol im done with this subject you can't change my mind and i can't change yours either so lets just agree to disagree STAR TREK FTW
@Graham987654 Actually no, it wouldn't. Transphasic torpedoes, aren't much more powerful than regular photons or quantums, their main strength is their ability to, as their name suggests, phase in and out of subspace to bypass shields and armour. Hence why they can destroy borg cubes in one hit, they bypass their defences and adaptation capabilities.
However, Imperial shielding is known to extend into subspace (Thrawn trilogy), so Transphasic torpedoes would not be able to bypass them.
@Perion sorry bud but transpahsic torps are much more powerful than standard torps and non cannon bs about 200 gigaton weapons won't save star destroyers against the st universe :)
@goflamespaul Sorry but there's zero evidence that they are at any appreciably higher yield, we saw them blow up Borg cubes in one or two hits but considering how only 3 phaser blasts took out 20% of the Cube in "Q-Who" all Transphasics do is bypass their adaptation ability.
@Graham987654 Photon Torpedoes, by the way, have an effective yield of roughly 24 megatons per torpedo. Impressive for a conventional weapon by our standards, but by the standards of the empire this is nothing at all, where even fighter launched concussion missiles and proton torpedoes carry yields of roughly 200 megatons. Imperial medium anti-capital ship guns, mounted on Acclamators, vessels that were never designed for heavy ship to ship combat, are literally a thousand times more powerful.
@Perion And to clear things up, I haven't really had too much formal training, but I did take cardio kickboxing for a while as well as limited fencing. Now obviously I'm no expert (and when it comes to fighting I'm certainly no Muhammad Ali!) I have learned enough to know that Klingons are quite impressive fighters in their own way.
@Perion And last but not least, Worf and most Klingons in general don't necessarily train for speed but for power and endurance. They do in fact make good hand-to-hand fighters, since that is considered to them an ultimate form of combat. They are more of the kickboxing/wrestler type yet they possess speed enough to use swords and hand weapons. They are kind of like Viking warriors, only much bigger and stronger.
@Gordontrek They are considered good by Trek standards, but with the exception of the abramsverse that equates to "Kirk Fu"Judo Chops in TOS and linked-finger-knuckle-hammers (with the odd palm strike) in TNG. If they possess speed they are certainly keeping it to themselves. They may be big, and perhaps stronger, but certainly not tougher or faster. It would be a trivial matter to, with a Rapier, slit their throats before they've even finished their Shomen strike.
@Perion Again you are the one underestimating Data's reflexes and speed. He can dodge lasers perfectly, which move at the speed of light. I see absolutely no reason to believe he couldn't dodge a blaster bolt. As for electrostaffs, all he would have to do is shoot fast enough to disable the MagnaGaurd, which he IS capable of doing.
@Gordontrek We saw him get hit by a stray arrow fired by troi in "Q-pid" the closest thing we saw to him dodging lasers was in "Home Soil" which was a turret mount moving in an easily predictable traverse/fire/traverse pattern. Don't have to dodge the beam, just the turret.
@Gordontrek If Data was such a supersoldier as you claim, why does he take cover and make pot shots during firefights like everyone else? if what you were claiming was true Data would be able to wade through any firefight and pick off everyone within a split second, but he doesn't do that.
@Perion Data would bring a phaser to the fight. Now before you go on pointing out every little discrepancy in hand phasers/phaser rifles, Data can reprogram them to do just about whatever he wants, including increasing their speed and power. Now I will loosen up here and say that in a random encounter Data would probably lose to a Jedi but with prep time he would annihilate just about anything the SW universe could throw at him.
@Gordontrek Okay now THAT is just plain being silly, phasers can be decent tools but as weapons they leave quite a bit to be desired (ergonomically especially). Sure they can disintegrate a soft target but even granite takes 3 solid seconds on max setting to clear a few cubic inches of it. Meanwhile a Blaster can tear a torso sized chunk out of a duracrete wall in a split second (think of the Hunter weapons in "Captive Pursuit"). Basically what you are proposing is a no limits fallacy.
@Gordontrek Data could not win against a Jedi because a well trained Jedi can sense what is goin to happenbefore it does, which Data is NOT capable of doing. The Jedi would easily deflect Data's phaser fire and defeat him
@Perion Klingons, however you rate them, are actually much stronger than the average human being. Worf is faster and stronger than you think he is. As for Data, well.. You said that a magnagaurd would tear up Data. Well, unfortunately, MagnaGaurds have duranium armor. Data's skull is made of duranium. And if a light saber can't cut through them, what does that say about Data? His reflexes and speed are just as good if not better so bye bye Imperial droids.
@Gordontrek Lightsabers cut through MagnaGuards like a hot knife through butter, hell it doesn't take much for a Lightsaber to cut through Neutronium (as we see in Episode 1 where Qui-Gon is melting through the doors). Again you overestimate Data's reflexes and speed, He won't be dodging many blaster bolts before he gets struck down dead. Not to mention how is he going to actually do any damage? punching or kicking them? also if anything a Jedi has superior reflexes since they can see the future
@Gordontrek What makes the MagnaGuards able to deflect Jedi are the Electrostaves, which would do serious damage to Data's positronic net. Considering how easily they can shatter transparisteel.
@Perion For one I am not racist in any way, sorry if I sounded that way. But suppose you are underestimating Klingons? For one thing, I certainly wouldn't want to pick a fight with one, and you probably wouldn't either. Worf's constant ownage... I have seen almost every episode of STTNG, and it certainly doesn't look like he could have avoided it. But whenever you see him fight, he does very well.
@Gordontrek No he doesn't, watch the Worf/Gowron fight again, If you've taken any lessons on Fencing, Kenjutsu, Kendo, or European Knight Sword/Shield styles of sword fighting (which I have basic lessons in all of the above, plus Aikido.) You can watch any klingon fight and notice just how clumsy and brutish their fighting "skills" are, you don't have to be an expert by any stretch to see all the flaws in their combat styles.
@Perion SW battle droids were shown fighting with Jar Jar's race of freaks. Some of them were destroyed. Which means that if those droids can get beat by Gungans, Data could effectively slaughter any SW droid, including Guri. Guri can go H2H against a Jedi with a chance of winning, and I've proven Data's superiority to Guri.
@Gordontrek So basically you are condemning all of Star Wars combat droid tech based on the cheapest, lowest bidders observed (they only attacked Naboo with them because Naboo had no military of it's own, and they won against the Gungans who were using unknown devices to cause them damage.) As well as based on your own bias and racist thoughts (dismissing gungans as mere "freaks") oh and I've heard every argument on both sides regarding the supposedly racist undertones of the gungans.
@Gordontrek We saw the Gungan submarines capable of withstanding pressures enough to fly through the core of the planet, in both their hulls and their shields, which they encase their cities in. Just because they seem to act rather silly doesn't make them "freaks" or to be underestimated. I thought Star Trek was supposed to be all about understanding and tollerance of other cultures?
Your supposed proof was based on your assumption that Klingons are somehow in the same league with Jedi.
@Gordontrek Which I handily debunked by showing that Worf and Klingons in general aren't very impressive. As for data's physical prowess, while we've seen him type fast and bend high tensile strength bars, I showed that Greivous has done similar, if not more impressive feats. Jedi in general are known for having superhuman strength, resilience and speed, as well as being able to see the future which gives them superhuman reflexes to go with it. A Magnaguard would tear Data apart.
@Gordontrek but remember b-1 battle droids are stupid, and the guys who made star wars wanted to make it funny how jar jar accidently killed droids. if the droid control ship had not been destroyed the gungans would have lost badly
@Perion Data is just as strong, if not more than, any droid in SW. For example, in "The Measure of a Man" Data easily bends a bar that has a tensile strength of 40 kilobars, which converts to 290 TONS per square inch. I don't know if SW droids can do this, but if Data can bend that easily, he's just as strong if not stronger than Darth Vader or General Grievous. By the way I didn't make that conversion up either, you can look it up.
@Gordontrek We see Grievous dig his toe claws into the hull of the Invisible hand, which is clad in armour 200,000x stronger than steel, we also see him punch at Obi-wan, and dent his own Starfighter which is made out of a similar material. We see Obi-Wan get his hand slammed into a monumental skyscrapper at high speeds, but reacts only as if someone slapped his hand for trying to steal a cookie. Yet he howls in agony when he kicks Grievous in the shin.
@Gordontrek you forget that greivous has four arms, four lightsabers and superhuman strength and darth vader has the force and a lightsaber. greivous could hold data in the air and slash him, or crush him with his clawed feet. vader could use the force to hold him in the air and slash him
@Perion You really can't compare stats canonically from tech manuals of two series. When I'm comparing two series (I do it all the time, not just ST and SW!) I NEVER rely on tech manuals. You have to look at what characters do. I just can't see C3PO or any other SW droid (made for combat specifically) typing on consoles so fast you can't see his hands or doing incredible feats of strength. Yet Data does it all the time. Sorry, Data is FAR superior to anything the Republic or Empire has to offer.
@Gordontrek Except the Tech manuals for Star Wars are canon, while the Tech manuals from Star Trek are not, Paramount and Lucasfilm's policies are different from one another. They don't have to type on the consoles, they can interface with them directly. As for feats of strength, C3PO isn't designed for that sort of thing, but there are plenty of droids that are, as well as super strong cyborgs (such as general grevious, not to mention Darth Vader himself) also Guri > Data any day of the week.
@Perion And also, Guri would get destroyed by Data any day. Guri is just a cute robot designed for assassination yet she lost a fight with Luke Skywalker. Data has never been known to lose a fight to a human or anyone else. He has defeated Worf, who is probably the Star Trek equivalent of a Jedi. Guri would get slaughtered by Data. And Data's not even specifically designed for combat. Which tells me that if Dr. Soong made a droid for combat, well....bye bye Empire.
@Gordontrek Considering how much worf get's his ass kicked Data being able to beat him up doesn't mean much, they call it the "Worf effect" for a reason. Luke can see the future, move at super speed, crush/throw/pull distand objects or people and force abilities allow a Jedi to reprogram droids from a distance (Anakin has used that last ability more than once) Not to mention the lightsaber which tear up Data just as easily as it would Worf, never bring a bat'leth to a saber duel.
@Gordontrek Guri is also more sophisticated technologically, being indistinguishable from that of a human even if you were to open her up, not even Data's "mother" is that advanced. If Dr.Soong made a droid specifically for combat, it would get wasted by the first E-11 or T-21 wielding stormtrooper that saw it.
Being able to type, talk or play Isolinear chip mastermind with the computer super fast, and being able to run super fast are two completely different things.
@Gordontrek And that's not even counting Imperial War Droids, like the Balmorran and Dark Trooper series. also as for Worf being even remotely comperable to a Jedi, welll... /watch?v=7nqb-o1ub54 Here's Worf at his best, /watch?v=rApjT3iWU_E Just see how clumsy and brutish they are, slow, basic, using force against force. For all worf's talk to Alexander about how to fight in "Sons and Daughters" he never really puts any of that into practice.
@Gordontrek In fact Binary Load Lifters are designed exclusively to have incredible strength as their name suggests. Ironically, I never used any of the Tech manuals in this discussion regarding Droids. Only examples of their hardware performance from The TNG Episode where Datas stats are described, by Data himself, on screen. As well as the SyntheTech AA-One Nanoprocessor stats which are described, by I-5YQ, in the dialogue of the Novel "Medstar 2: Jedi Healer".
lol think was alittle too one sided. ^^ but be nice if star wars games lieks tar treck legacy, course they have hard time hundreds of fighters along with main shiips doing battle
@Perion You just made those stats up. Data can do infinitely more than an Imperial droid can, or C3PO for that matter. They show hardly any reflexes at all while Data's are nigh godlike. Your stats are clearly biased. Data is far superior to anything the Empire has.
@Gordontrek Actually I didn't, Data's stats are from the TNG episode "Measure of a Man" The SyntheTech AA-One nanoprocessor stats are from Star Wars: Medstar 2 Jedi Healer. Sorry, but even Republic Droids are superior to data.
Star Trek owns Star Wars. Look at the appearance of technology. For example, look at robots. Star Wars features those flimsy Imperial drones that get shot down by the bushel. C3PO is cool but look at him walk. Now look at Star Trek. Data. He has near god-like speed and does millions upon millions of calculations per second. He could take a whole army of Imperial drones. And if that's just robots & androids, I have absolutely no reason to believe the Star Wars ships are superior.
@Gordontrek Your problem starts imeadiately when you said "appearance" focusing on the superficial aesthetics.
I don't recal there being ANY Imperial droids shot in the entire film saga. C3PO is a protcol droid, Droids in Star Wars are designed with a far more Utilitarian mindset, often specializing in a particular role. Data is analogous to a General Purpose Human Replica Droid (like Guri), but is far more primitive.
With the exception of the Probe Droid of course, but it was never designed for combat and it self destructed rather than getting blown up by han's pistol.
Datas calculation speed is 60 trillion per second with a storage capacity of 90,949 TB, however the SyntheTech AA-One nanoprocessor found on 3PO droids has a speed of over 700 trillion per second, and a capacity of 5,000,000 TB. Data is unique, made from technology the Federation does not have access to, C3PO is bog standard.
Can ya blame the guy for stacking the fight in Star Treks favor? If I had this game, I'd get a Dalek Battlecruiser and Stack everything in it's favor. But then, that would be realistic, not Stacked. As much as I love Doctor Who, I gotta admit, Daleks are the most overpowered bad guys ever :D
@naziempire1 i dont think you know, but Phasers are more powerful than lasers, and lasers cant even penetrate star trek ship's navigational shields and protons torpedos are weaker than Photons. So i doubt you can call a ship with SUPERIOR firepower to begin with, then put weapons and armor from the FUTURE onto it "gay". one Intrepid class almost certainly kill a fleet of star destroyers
@bennie128 Pretty sure I straitened out your misconception, unless you have more. Proton torpedo = 191 megatons shaped charge, Photon torpedo = 48 megaton omnidirectional blast.
Star Wars capital ship guns (called Turbolasers but don't let the name fool you, they have little to nothing in common with the kinds of weapons the Federation call lasers.) Vary from 6 megaton rapid fire anti-fighter light guns, hundreds of gigatons mediums, and dozen teraton heavies on their line destroyers alone.
@bennie128 The Truth is that a single Star Destroyer outguns the entire Alpha Quadrant, and while Naziempire1 doesn't get any points for etiquette, is is correct in the relative firepower of Star Trek and Star Wars.
@bennie128 All known corporeal races yes, the only race that has ships that could match 1 on 1 with a Star Destroyer would be maybe, MAYBE the Voth city ship, but only because we know so little about it's capabilities. We do know that the Empire can defeat the Voth through weight of numbers however with ease.
@bennie128 The Borg's adaptive abilities are far from limitless, we have seen the limitations they have in both type and magnitude, the Empire exceeds them in every way.
We saw from First contact that even if they do adapt they can still be damaged, and it took far less firepower to bring the cube down than a single shot from a Turbolaser has.
@LibertyLuvr1969 Shame that would never work, transphasic torpedoes work by phasing into subspace to bypass shielding, shields in Star Wars extend into Subspace, so the Torpedoes would be useless.
@Perion even so, shields have one frequency at a time, and transphasics torps emit a pulse in multiple phase states, and since the pulse isn't emitted until impact even multiple shield generators could not adapt frequencies before the torpedo was already inside the ship lol
@cwag123321 sorry, but only Trek shields and weapons are frequency based, as they are made from coherent wave forms.
Star Wars weaponry and shielding is made from incoherent wave forms, which effectively means they have no set modulation frequency at all, making it impossible for the torpedoes to match.
@Perion making them impossible to match what?you said star wars shielding extends into subspace. transphasic torpedoes exist in multiple phases of subspace,where as star wars shielding extends just into subspace.if one component of the transphasic pulse was in the same phase of subspace that the shields were, several others would still be out of phase and penetrate the shielding regardless of the one component of the torpedo that was blocked. Like getting a stone thrown at you then being shot.
@cwag123321 sorry but A) Subspace doesn't work that way and B) you have no proof that Transphasics are even remotely capable of it.
Not only that but you block one part while another tries to get through and guess what happens? it's either held back by the part that isn't getting through or it gets torn apart and/or detonates, either way it's not going to get through the shields. It's not a pulse, it's a torpedo, a solid object.
@Perion my proof :memory-alpha. org/wiki/Transphasic_torpedo
and the torpedo itself isnt a pulse but when it hits something (like a shield) it delivers the pulse, while the torp is destroyed. It's meant to hit a shield, but the pulse spreads through different phases, making it impossible to block them all. the torpedo isn't meant to destroy the ship, it's just the mailman.
@cwag123321 sorry, but Apocrypha isn't canon, and neither are the pocket books.
Even if we accept that for lack of canon alternatives, it still isn't going to penetrate Imperial shields, why? because once again the Incoherent Wave forms. Trek shields can only block one subcomponent because they are phase coherent, so something with multiple phase states can get by. However, Phase Incoherent shielding can potentially block all sub-components. So again, Transphasics aren't getting through.
@Perion incoherent shielding is based off of incoherent frequencies, not phases. so again, one shot, and that precious overrated star destroyer goes boom :)
and btw CBS has accepted Star Trek novels as canon
@cwag123321 And when did CBS ever say anything remotely like that?
Frequencies and phases are closely related, also shields don't extend into subspace on Trek ships the way Star Wars ship shields do. Again even if it's out of phase with the rest than an anyon layer to the shields will fix that easily.
Also it's a mistake to assume that even if you got one through the shields, which isn't going to happen, that it would blow up an ISD.
2nd, frequencies and phases are nothing alike, match a frequency and a weapon will blow through the shields, bleeding damage straight to the ships structure. match a phase, and it makes the weapon no more useful than it was. they are almost opposite.
3rd , if a transphasic can destroy a borg cube (just as big if not bigger than an isd) in 1-2 shots, then im fairly sure it can pass through the outdated shields of the empire and blow them to bits.
@cwag123321 sorry, but while Imperial shielding is "older" (in that it was made a long time ago in a galaxy far far away) it is far more advanced and powerful than what the Federation or Borg have.
A Borg cube is made up of ductwork and has no armour whatsoever (except "tactical" cubes which have a few crude plates slapped on), Imperial ship hulls are made out of the same material as the Dyson Sphere, or Iconian structures, Neutronium.
You're going to have to show me the statement from CBS.
all this shows is how much a star trek fan has to mod his ship so he can feel good about finally killing some star wars ships :D i personally would rather see not such a stacked battle
@Hydranium that said, i love both star trek and star wars, i will not pick a side, theres just way too much hostility over something that that should be enjoyed and respected, voyager is still my favourite star trek
@Hydranium Haha, well, it's all in the stats of the ships, right? In this game, the Armored Voyager's torpedos have really high stats, because it should blow up Borg Cubes with one or two shots. Therefore, in Legacy, it will also blow up ISDs in one shot. But, this is something you can enjoy, and if not, it's the wrong video to watch ; )
As you've said, it's just a game, no hostility intended!
@STLegacy Can you introduce Imperial and Executor class star destroyers in the game? How bout waves of TIE fighters? Just interested to see how armored Voyager can deal with those.
@williamskidfears Well, if you'd look to the In-Game stats, the Armored Voyager would 100% win. It has VERY high stats. Hmm.. I'd have to port those ships, perhaps later, because it's quite a lot of work!
@STLegacy Just curious, seeing how both the Super Star Destroyer, and the Imp I and II classes of Star Destroyer have more teeth than the Victory-class( the Veneator class as well), and Imperial tactics call for waves of TIE fighters and bombers to be sent against cap ships, before the Star Destroyers got within turbolaser range.
Yeah, armored Voyager looks like she's pretty formidable, Bet Picard wished the Ent-E had ablative armor and transphasic torps when he went up against Shitzon.
@cwag123321 But armored Voyager's armor is maintained by a generator, like the armor on Admiral Janeway's shuttle, unlike Defiant's armor, which was slapped on in the usual way, correct? So, I'm assuming that the generator can reinforce the armor as it ablates, as opposed to it simply being whittled away and gone forever.
@williamskidfears provided it can absorb enough damage and reinfoce the armour faster than the armour is destroyed yes. It would be better to call it Regenerative Armour, than Ablative. Unfortunetly when dealing with Firepower of the Magnitude used by the Empire, the ship would be obliterated after the first hit, armour or no.
@STLegacy you assume that an ISD has the same stats as a cube. you know that in a straight up fight the empire would crush the feds. the fact that they have at least 65K yr jump in tech (measured from the respective points of inception of FTL travel) and the advantage of having MILLIONS of worlds across 110K lys from which to draw resources (vs a federation that spans 8K lys according to picard in first contact) never seems to weigh in on the logic that trekies apply to this argument.
@cwag123321 We don't know exactly how "long ago" or how "far far away" the events of Star Wars take place, we do know however that their weaponry is a great deal more powerful than Trek's
Federation Weaponry
Photon Torpedo: 24 megaton effective yield
Quantum Torpedo: 48 megaton effective yield
Transphasic Torpedo: same order of magnitude as above.
Remember how much damage 3 Phaser shots did to the Borg Cube before it adapted? imagine if they fired a torpedo instead, cube would have gone boom.
@Perion well regarding the time we know that in relation to the movies....star wars happened a long long long time ago, and star trek (tng) happens about 300 years in the future.
@Perion that is if the empire even survived the constant uprisings due to their lack of ability to keep people happy........and wouldn't 300 years also bring the empire completley different tech and ships? we have to assume they time traveled, and that their weapons were not designed to fight an enemy like the federation, and vice versa. we can speculate what would happen, but at the end of the day its still 2011 and neither star wars hasn't happened and star trek may or may not happen
@cwag123321 As of the latest works in Star Wars, the Empire is stronger than ever. However Because we know more about their tech in the canon timeframes, The usual process is to involve a Wormhole connecting the two galaxies through time and space. Also they don't have to be designed to fight the Federation to be horrifically effective.
in ragnarok, Voyager encountered a massive battle that had been continuing for centuries, because each side was adapted to attack the other race, and to defend against it. when Janeway found an exploit in their shielding, the seemingly impenetrable defenses of the dreadnoughts proved worthless as voyagers phasers made pretty patterns on their hulls.
@cwag123321 Sorry but you're going to have to prove that any such exploit exists, or concede. They're not going to be able to technobable their way out of an invading force capable of moving thousands of times faster than even their fastest ships. Are hopelessly outnumbered by ships capable of individually outgunning their entire fleet combined. So on and so forth.
Remember, Federation line ships generally only carry 2-3 torpedo launchers, Imperial line ships are over 4,000,000x more powerful.
@Perion No limits fallacy much? and how good will those ships be when Q snaps his fingers and in a blink of an eye they are gone? Im sure he wouldn't want Aunt Kathy to die.....
@cwag123321 You mean if, to which there's no reason to assume he will. Since he's never done anything of the sort in all the alternate universes/timelines where she's died and humanity was enslaved etc. Q doesn't care much about humans beyond mild amusement, he might hold some level of lark towards specific ones but nothing that would warrant such a thing. The most he might do even in theory is ensure she survives, but he won't fight her battles for her.
@cwag123321 A No Limits fallacy is when the limitations of something is either unknown or poorly understood, and assume that it doesn't have any limitations at all.
I know what the capabilities and limitations of the Federation ships are, as well as the capabilities and limitations of Imperial ships are, the fact that I can even give a ball park figure and understanding that the sheer scale and how the federation could not possibly win given canon info. Shows that It is not a no limits fallacy.
@Perion Ermmm, which latest works? The Fate of the Force books has them co-equal with the Galactic Alliance, while the Legacy comic book series(137ABY+)has Roan Fel's Empire in exile, the Jedi, and the Galactic Alliance Remnant just now starting to turn the tide against Darth Krayt and the One Sith.
@williamskidfears between roan fel's empire and darth krayt's they show that the concept and spirit of the Empire is stronger than ever, if not the institution itself.
@Perion Also, I would think the Federation, the Roms, the Klingons, and maybe even the Delta and Gamma Quadrant races would give them a run for their money; tech differences aside, it's harder to fight someone who's on their home soil and shooting back at you, even if it's with bows and arrows.
Just ask the Russians about their expiriences in Afghanistan.
(Sides, there's always the possibility of those Rebel scum intervening....)
Russians and Afghans had relatively equal tech when you compare infantry. They both used ak-47s and variants thereof, the main advantage the Russains had were aircraft and tanks etc, but the afghans had anti-aircraft and anti-vehicle weapons available to them.
A better comparison between the Empire vs those powers you mentioned would be a hypothetical modern US invasion of ancient egypt or greece, IE it would be a one sided massacre in favour of the US.
The Problem with Rebel intervention is that it imediately stops being Star Wars vs Star Trek and just turns into Star Wars fighting over the fate of Star Trek,
@williamskidfears depends on when the invasion takes place, if it does so while the Rebellion is still the Rebellion then they wouldn't have the resources to commit to such an intervention, as they can barely defend themselves as it is, and are waiting for the right time.
The Empire expanded quite a bit throughout the time when the Rebellion was fighting them, but they never had the ability to help out.
The New Republic on the other hand might if they know what's going on.
@Perion Depends on who's Chief of State at the time. Mon Mothma and Leia for certain, Borsk Fey'lya, on the other hand, if he could stand to gain from it.
So not only would Transphasics splash against ISD shields, but one shot from their medium guns would reduce even batmobile armoured voyager to stray particles.
@Perion or the ablative armor would do its job and that energy would be dissipated and/or deflected into a huge shockwave of energy, blasting the shields of any ships in the area followed by ionized radiation, infecting all living things within a blast radius the size of two solar systems...............
Get a real life, and get a real girlfriend
If you can.
saulsmith21 1 week ago
Ah, the arguement of the tech manuals of Star Wars and Star Trek...Star Wars uses more Gigawats of power than Star Trek. Ok, here are two different galaxies in two different time periods. DEFINE the unit of measurement of a gigawat. What one galaxy uses for it's scale may be completely different than the other. Bottom line, PHASERS are a more advanced weapon than LASERS. Roddenberry made sure to use ACTUAL science in Star Trek (actually had advisors from NASA help out). Lucas used fantasy.
GalacticNonsense 2 weeks ago
@GalacticNonsense Star Trek half the time makes no sense. Your right about the whole power thing thats why you can't compare ships from different sic fi fictions, its just stupid. I gave up the Star Wars vs Star Trek thing because they are totally different. For example a space station called the zeus cannon from final fantasy can generate 120 giga joules to destroy an astroid, yet the Enterprise with 500 giga joules can't? But I think its wrong for Star Trek to call all other sci fi weak.
KLamki1 1 week ago
Star Trek will ALWAYS defeat Star Wars. Here are TWO reasons why:
1.) Q snaps his fingers. Star Wars galaxy vanishes out of existance. Q also makes sure that by eliminating the Star Wars galaxy, it has no effect on the timelines of the rest of the universe.
2.) The Empire from Star Wars LOST to a race of teddy bears and one turncoat (Vader). I guess the Federation is a better fighting force than the Ewoks.
GalacticNonsense 2 weeks ago
@GalacticNonsense Thats just not fair to use Q, if you are going to do that well I'll just have send a message to the Ori from the StarGate Universe to kick Q's ass.
KLamki1 1 week ago
@KLamki1 Thanks for proving Star Wars can't beat Star Trek. Star Wars has to 'summon' another sci-fi storyline to survive.
GalacticNonsense 1 week ago
@GalacticNonsense Coming from a guy that needs to "summon" a deity. Ok well Star Wars has something better than gay Q.. Immortal gods of the Sith; basically they are deities like the Ori and they have a nice brainwashed telekinesis Sith followers to blow up the Feds. You wanted to play dirty ^_^ Live long and you know the rest...
KLamki1 6 days ago
@GalacticNonsense Oh and thanks for wasting my time. I have to talk some sense into another guy on a fantasy forum, I just proved I was right and now he just said kill yourself?
You guys are taking fiction way to seriously lol.
KLamki1 6 days ago
God thats insulting, make several imperial star destroyer get owned by Voyager, the ship that could barley get back from a quadrant. Enterprise-D would get ripped to shreds by Slave-1 the facts are already there, yet people keep insulting Star Wars. I love Capt. Janeway and I ordered STO but this is just Trek Fans being Assholes again.
KLamki1 2 weeks ago
@KLamki1 STO is free. Been free forever now. You "ordered" nothing.
Idazmi7 1 week ago
@Idazmi7 Whats your problem! Seriously what made you so ******* psychotic? "STO is free. Been free forever now" Well DUH! I know that you turd.
KLamki1 1 week ago
@KLamki1 You made the comment 5 days ago. It's been free for months.
Moron.
Idazmi7 1 week ago
@Idazmi7 I knew the Game was going free 2 play before you did MORON! I said I was ordering for the DISC,So that I didn't have to go through hell to install the STO download and transfer it to my Mac.
KLamki1 1 week ago
@KLamki1 You didn't say that until now.
And, no, you take the trophy. I'm undeserving.
Idazmi7 1 week ago
@Idazmi7 "You ordered nothing" What? So the Golden edition with the T shirt and post cards, map and dlc code and concept art book with disc is nothing? Oh so the items I bought are worthless?
KLamki1 1 week ago
@Idazmi7 I ordered nothing, I gladly paid money for the game, unlike you freebie assholes. people that pay keep the updates and added content going. Call yourself a Trek Fan, I call you a "Douchebag"
KLamki1 1 week ago
@Idazmi7 We present you the Honorary Douchbag Of The Week Award. (loud appalled) for your inconsiderate asinine treatment of fellow human beings!
Yours Truly "Members Of Science Fiction And Fantasy"
KLamki1 1 week ago
Only in your noob dreams.
saulsmith21 1 month ago
@saulsmith21 Wow. Mature.
Idazmi7 1 month ago
Thanks for making this. I'm personally tired of seeing Star Wars beating Star Trek ruthlessly. I find it offensive that way. People these days make it look like Star Trek captains and their advanced technology fail to annihalate the slow, lumbering star destroyers, whose only real advantage is the intimidation from their size.
TheLegolasguy 1 month ago
@TheLegolasguy Agreed. It's not a debate anymore: it's an insulting smear campaign.
Idazmi7 1 month ago
@Idazmi7 I wish their was an exact answer :P
NonstopRam 3 weeks ago
@NonstopRam Me too. It seems to be 300megatons to 5 petatons. Also, torpedoes are actually variable yield, meaning you can choose how big the explosion is.
Idazmi7 3 weeks ago
To all SW fans:Sorry, but the ones of you,they tought Star destroyers would kill the Voyager,should notice,that these star destroyers are Victory Class Destroyers,not Imperial Class^^and we should all know,that Victory class isn t as strong as the Imperial Class,so it is "Realistic" that these destroyers get destroyed.
WadeBlanchett 1 month ago
@WadeBlanchett Furthermore, Imperial Class Star Destroyers get killed by one-man fighters in Star Wars: Return of the Jedi.
Idazmi7 1 month ago
Well the thing is that (I do not allow stupid Star Wars fans to comment on my comment) that no matter what fan made "calculations of weapons power etc." say, lasers wouldn't even penentrate Voyagers deflector shields (oh come on SW fans you gotta accept that(and don't complain!))
theemrpoint123 2 months ago
@CommanderWolf888 I was comparing the normal combat ability of Data vs. Jedi without the Force. If the Jedi relies on combat skills Data would thump him. And besides, Grevious with 4 light sabers is nothing. All Data must do is whip out a phaser and bang. A Jedi with the force, I do agree, would pound Data up, but I'm sure that if Data had prep time he and Geordi could cook something up :)
Gordontrek 2 months ago
@CommanderWolf888 ST weapons can't pierce an X-Wing's shields? You're just saying that! Don't get your info from that "Essay in five minutes." I compare sci fi franchises like this all the time, and I've learned, never take info from the tech manuals of any of the franchises and compare them. You have to compare combat ability (what feats the ships have accomplished in battle.)
Gordontrek 2 months ago
You know that star trek weapons can't even penetrate the shields of an X WING, right? This video is inacurate to what would really happen in this situation.
CommanderWolf888 2 months ago
As much as I could see ST beating SW imho, the Star Destroyers are going down too easy in this.
DarthMetool 2 months ago
Chakotay: "They are firing LASERS at us captain. They don't even have shields."
Janeway: "How quaint. Beam a photon torpedo onto their bridge."
RichardBullittBush 2 months ago 2
I may just not be educated in this field but i thought the whole disadvantage of the proton torpedo is that they are virtually ineffective against shields.......
ZombieWaterhorse 2 months ago
This is no challenge. Voyager needs something more challenging than this.
Seattlecarnut 3 months ago 2
Oh please, Those Victory Class Star Destroyers have a crew compliment of 6,000 plus all their super weapons and fighters and guns. This fight should be over in 5 seconds.
Janeway: This is Captain--
Imp Officer: Launch the fighters and fire turbo lasers and ions cannons
Tuvok: We're receiving fire from Everywhere captain! Too many enemies to fire on! Shields buckling.
Janeway: Abando- *boom*
Officer: Did they give us any reason to attack?
Captain: Nope
END
Clonetrooperkev 3 months ago
U may call me a nerd about starwars and startrek but how dose a photon torpedo destroy a victory class star destroyer??? plus they only shot torpedos back THEY DON'T EVEN have topedo launchers!! Where's the lasers and ion cannons and stuff?!?!?!
stinger913 3 months ago
This is completely inacurate. If this were a real Star Wars vs. Star Trek Voyager would be the one dead in 2 seconds.
CommanderWolf888 3 months ago
The Star Destroyers are obviously weaker, seeing as how they don't even have turbo lasers or ion cannons like thy should. Plus, they each have 6 flights of tie fighter and I don't see any of them
zenama101 4 months ago
As much fun as it is seeing Star Destroyers getting popped like balloons.....that didn't really seem like much of a challenge. Try going up against a couple Super Star Destroyers!
JediMasterJD996 5 months ago
Comment removed
JediMasterJD996 5 months ago
IM AMAZED at how many people cling to the belief that the sw books are actually cannon THEYRE NOT !!!! case closed
goflamespaul 7 months ago
@goflamespaul even though they are canon, what with the whole tier system and all.
Perion 7 months ago
@Perion lol
goflamespaul 7 months ago
@goflamespaul they are too canon! now the case is closed
CommanderWolf888 2 months ago
@CommanderWolf888 a little slow on the draw huh??? lol im done with this subject you can't change my mind and i can't change yours either so lets just agree to disagree STAR TREK FTW
goflamespaul 2 months ago
* sry megatons *
goflamespaul 7 months ago
i lost count anyone kept track of how many star destroyers got blown up
Graham987654 7 months ago
this is about how it would happen
Graham987654 7 months ago
@Graham987654 Actually no, it wouldn't. Transphasic torpedoes, aren't much more powerful than regular photons or quantums, their main strength is their ability to, as their name suggests, phase in and out of subspace to bypass shields and armour. Hence why they can destroy borg cubes in one hit, they bypass their defences and adaptation capabilities.
However, Imperial shielding is known to extend into subspace (Thrawn trilogy), so Transphasic torpedoes would not be able to bypass them.
Perion 7 months ago
@Perion sorry bud but transpahsic torps are much more powerful than standard torps and non cannon bs about 200 gigaton weapons won't save star destroyers against the st universe :)
goflamespaul 7 months ago
@goflamespaul Sorry but there's zero evidence that they are at any appreciably higher yield, we saw them blow up Borg cubes in one or two hits but considering how only 3 phaser blasts took out 20% of the Cube in "Q-Who" all Transphasics do is bypass their adaptation ability.
Perion 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Perion You just love trolling on comments don't you? Why don't you get a REAL job.
thefinalfrontier1701 4 months ago
@Perion Standard photons will still kill any Star Destroyer, so this is moot.
Idazmi7 1 month ago
@Graham987654 Photon Torpedoes, by the way, have an effective yield of roughly 24 megatons per torpedo. Impressive for a conventional weapon by our standards, but by the standards of the empire this is nothing at all, where even fighter launched concussion missiles and proton torpedoes carry yields of roughly 200 megatons. Imperial medium anti-capital ship guns, mounted on Acclamators, vessels that were never designed for heavy ship to ship combat, are literally a thousand times more powerful.
Perion 7 months ago
@Perion And torpedoes are far more than 24 megatons.
Idazmi7 1 month ago
@Perion And to clear things up, I haven't really had too much formal training, but I did take cardio kickboxing for a while as well as limited fencing. Now obviously I'm no expert (and when it comes to fighting I'm certainly no Muhammad Ali!) I have learned enough to know that Klingons are quite impressive fighters in their own way.
Gordontrek 7 months ago
@Gordontrek When it comes to Klingons, I'd have to agree with Senator Letant, Though I have to say I find Romulans rather underwhelming as well.
Perion 7 months ago
@Perion And last but not least, Worf and most Klingons in general don't necessarily train for speed but for power and endurance. They do in fact make good hand-to-hand fighters, since that is considered to them an ultimate form of combat. They are more of the kickboxing/wrestler type yet they possess speed enough to use swords and hand weapons. They are kind of like Viking warriors, only much bigger and stronger.
Gordontrek 7 months ago
@Gordontrek They are considered good by Trek standards, but with the exception of the abramsverse that equates to "Kirk Fu"Judo Chops in TOS and linked-finger-knuckle-hammers (with the odd palm strike) in TNG. If they possess speed they are certainly keeping it to themselves. They may be big, and perhaps stronger, but certainly not tougher or faster. It would be a trivial matter to, with a Rapier, slit their throats before they've even finished their Shomen strike.
Perion 7 months ago
@Perion Again you are the one underestimating Data's reflexes and speed. He can dodge lasers perfectly, which move at the speed of light. I see absolutely no reason to believe he couldn't dodge a blaster bolt. As for electrostaffs, all he would have to do is shoot fast enough to disable the MagnaGaurd, which he IS capable of doing.
Gordontrek 7 months ago
@Gordontrek We saw him get hit by a stray arrow fired by troi in "Q-pid" the closest thing we saw to him dodging lasers was in "Home Soil" which was a turret mount moving in an easily predictable traverse/fire/traverse pattern. Don't have to dodge the beam, just the turret.
Perion 7 months ago
@Gordontrek If Data was such a supersoldier as you claim, why does he take cover and make pot shots during firefights like everyone else? if what you were claiming was true Data would be able to wade through any firefight and pick off everyone within a split second, but he doesn't do that.
Perion 7 months ago
@Perion Data would bring a phaser to the fight. Now before you go on pointing out every little discrepancy in hand phasers/phaser rifles, Data can reprogram them to do just about whatever he wants, including increasing their speed and power. Now I will loosen up here and say that in a random encounter Data would probably lose to a Jedi but with prep time he would annihilate just about anything the SW universe could throw at him.
Gordontrek 7 months ago
@Gordontrek Okay now THAT is just plain being silly, phasers can be decent tools but as weapons they leave quite a bit to be desired (ergonomically especially). Sure they can disintegrate a soft target but even granite takes 3 solid seconds on max setting to clear a few cubic inches of it. Meanwhile a Blaster can tear a torso sized chunk out of a duracrete wall in a split second (think of the Hunter weapons in "Captive Pursuit"). Basically what you are proposing is a no limits fallacy.
Perion 7 months ago
@Gordontrek Data could not win against a Jedi because a well trained Jedi can sense what is goin to happenbefore it does, which Data is NOT capable of doing. The Jedi would easily deflect Data's phaser fire and defeat him
CommanderWolf888 2 months ago
@Perion Klingons, however you rate them, are actually much stronger than the average human being. Worf is faster and stronger than you think he is. As for Data, well.. You said that a magnagaurd would tear up Data. Well, unfortunately, MagnaGaurds have duranium armor. Data's skull is made of duranium. And if a light saber can't cut through them, what does that say about Data? His reflexes and speed are just as good if not better so bye bye Imperial droids.
Gordontrek 7 months ago
@Gordontrek Lightsabers cut through MagnaGuards like a hot knife through butter, hell it doesn't take much for a Lightsaber to cut through Neutronium (as we see in Episode 1 where Qui-Gon is melting through the doors). Again you overestimate Data's reflexes and speed, He won't be dodging many blaster bolts before he gets struck down dead. Not to mention how is he going to actually do any damage? punching or kicking them? also if anything a Jedi has superior reflexes since they can see the future
Perion 7 months ago
@Gordontrek What makes the MagnaGuards able to deflect Jedi are the Electrostaves, which would do serious damage to Data's positronic net. Considering how easily they can shatter transparisteel.
Perion 7 months ago
@Perion For one I am not racist in any way, sorry if I sounded that way. But suppose you are underestimating Klingons? For one thing, I certainly wouldn't want to pick a fight with one, and you probably wouldn't either. Worf's constant ownage... I have seen almost every episode of STTNG, and it certainly doesn't look like he could have avoided it. But whenever you see him fight, he does very well.
Gordontrek 7 months ago
@Gordontrek No he doesn't, watch the Worf/Gowron fight again, If you've taken any lessons on Fencing, Kenjutsu, Kendo, or European Knight Sword/Shield styles of sword fighting (which I have basic lessons in all of the above, plus Aikido.) You can watch any klingon fight and notice just how clumsy and brutish their fighting "skills" are, you don't have to be an expert by any stretch to see all the flaws in their combat styles.
Perion 7 months ago
@Gordontrek Worfs constant ownage is because he is a main character in tng and ds9
CommanderWolf888 2 months ago
@Perion SW battle droids were shown fighting with Jar Jar's race of freaks. Some of them were destroyed. Which means that if those droids can get beat by Gungans, Data could effectively slaughter any SW droid, including Guri. Guri can go H2H against a Jedi with a chance of winning, and I've proven Data's superiority to Guri.
Gordontrek 7 months ago
@Gordontrek So basically you are condemning all of Star Wars combat droid tech based on the cheapest, lowest bidders observed (they only attacked Naboo with them because Naboo had no military of it's own, and they won against the Gungans who were using unknown devices to cause them damage.) As well as based on your own bias and racist thoughts (dismissing gungans as mere "freaks") oh and I've heard every argument on both sides regarding the supposedly racist undertones of the gungans.
Perion 7 months ago
@Gordontrek We saw the Gungan submarines capable of withstanding pressures enough to fly through the core of the planet, in both their hulls and their shields, which they encase their cities in. Just because they seem to act rather silly doesn't make them "freaks" or to be underestimated. I thought Star Trek was supposed to be all about understanding and tollerance of other cultures?
Your supposed proof was based on your assumption that Klingons are somehow in the same league with Jedi.
Perion 7 months ago
@Gordontrek Which I handily debunked by showing that Worf and Klingons in general aren't very impressive. As for data's physical prowess, while we've seen him type fast and bend high tensile strength bars, I showed that Greivous has done similar, if not more impressive feats. Jedi in general are known for having superhuman strength, resilience and speed, as well as being able to see the future which gives them superhuman reflexes to go with it. A Magnaguard would tear Data apart.
Perion 7 months ago
@Gordontrek but remember b-1 battle droids are stupid, and the guys who made star wars wanted to make it funny how jar jar accidently killed droids. if the droid control ship had not been destroyed the gungans would have lost badly
CommanderWolf888 2 months ago
@Perion Data is just as strong, if not more than, any droid in SW. For example, in "The Measure of a Man" Data easily bends a bar that has a tensile strength of 40 kilobars, which converts to 290 TONS per square inch. I don't know if SW droids can do this, but if Data can bend that easily, he's just as strong if not stronger than Darth Vader or General Grievous. By the way I didn't make that conversion up either, you can look it up.
Gordontrek 7 months ago
@Gordontrek We see Grievous dig his toe claws into the hull of the Invisible hand, which is clad in armour 200,000x stronger than steel, we also see him punch at Obi-wan, and dent his own Starfighter which is made out of a similar material. We see Obi-Wan get his hand slammed into a monumental skyscrapper at high speeds, but reacts only as if someone slapped his hand for trying to steal a cookie. Yet he howls in agony when he kicks Grievous in the shin.
Perion 7 months ago
@Gordontrek you forget that greivous has four arms, four lightsabers and superhuman strength and darth vader has the force and a lightsaber. greivous could hold data in the air and slash him, or crush him with his clawed feet. vader could use the force to hold him in the air and slash him
CommanderWolf888 2 months ago
One ship (Voyager) against several enemy ships?
Seattlecarnut 7 months ago
@Perion You really can't compare stats canonically from tech manuals of two series. When I'm comparing two series (I do it all the time, not just ST and SW!) I NEVER rely on tech manuals. You have to look at what characters do. I just can't see C3PO or any other SW droid (made for combat specifically) typing on consoles so fast you can't see his hands or doing incredible feats of strength. Yet Data does it all the time. Sorry, Data is FAR superior to anything the Republic or Empire has to offer.
Gordontrek 7 months ago
@Gordontrek Except the Tech manuals for Star Wars are canon, while the Tech manuals from Star Trek are not, Paramount and Lucasfilm's policies are different from one another. They don't have to type on the consoles, they can interface with them directly. As for feats of strength, C3PO isn't designed for that sort of thing, but there are plenty of droids that are, as well as super strong cyborgs (such as general grevious, not to mention Darth Vader himself) also Guri > Data any day of the week.
Perion 7 months ago
@Perion And also, Guri would get destroyed by Data any day. Guri is just a cute robot designed for assassination yet she lost a fight with Luke Skywalker. Data has never been known to lose a fight to a human or anyone else. He has defeated Worf, who is probably the Star Trek equivalent of a Jedi. Guri would get slaughtered by Data. And Data's not even specifically designed for combat. Which tells me that if Dr. Soong made a droid for combat, well....bye bye Empire.
Gordontrek 7 months ago
@Gordontrek Considering how much worf get's his ass kicked Data being able to beat him up doesn't mean much, they call it the "Worf effect" for a reason. Luke can see the future, move at super speed, crush/throw/pull distand objects or people and force abilities allow a Jedi to reprogram droids from a distance (Anakin has used that last ability more than once) Not to mention the lightsaber which tear up Data just as easily as it would Worf, never bring a bat'leth to a saber duel.
Perion 7 months ago
@Gordontrek Guri is also more sophisticated technologically, being indistinguishable from that of a human even if you were to open her up, not even Data's "mother" is that advanced. If Dr.Soong made a droid specifically for combat, it would get wasted by the first E-11 or T-21 wielding stormtrooper that saw it.
Being able to type, talk or play Isolinear chip mastermind with the computer super fast, and being able to run super fast are two completely different things.
Perion 7 months ago
@Gordontrek And that's not even counting Imperial War Droids, like the Balmorran and Dark Trooper series. also as for Worf being even remotely comperable to a Jedi, welll... /watch?v=7nqb-o1ub54 Here's Worf at his best, /watch?v=rApjT3iWU_E Just see how clumsy and brutish they are, slow, basic, using force against force. For all worf's talk to Alexander about how to fight in "Sons and Daughters" he never really puts any of that into practice.
Perion 7 months ago
@Gordontrek In fact Binary Load Lifters are designed exclusively to have incredible strength as their name suggests. Ironically, I never used any of the Tech manuals in this discussion regarding Droids. Only examples of their hardware performance from The TNG Episode where Datas stats are described, by Data himself, on screen. As well as the SyntheTech AA-One Nanoprocessor stats which are described, by I-5YQ, in the dialogue of the Novel "Medstar 2: Jedi Healer".
Perion 7 months ago
lol think was alittle too one sided. ^^ but be nice if star wars games lieks tar treck legacy, course they have hard time hundreds of fighters along with main shiips doing battle
sareshadow 7 months ago
@Perion You just made those stats up. Data can do infinitely more than an Imperial droid can, or C3PO for that matter. They show hardly any reflexes at all while Data's are nigh godlike. Your stats are clearly biased. Data is far superior to anything the Empire has.
Gordontrek 8 months ago
@Gordontrek Actually I didn't, Data's stats are from the TNG episode "Measure of a Man" The SyntheTech AA-One nanoprocessor stats are from Star Wars: Medstar 2 Jedi Healer. Sorry, but even Republic Droids are superior to data.
Perion 7 months ago
Star Trek owns Star Wars. Look at the appearance of technology. For example, look at robots. Star Wars features those flimsy Imperial drones that get shot down by the bushel. C3PO is cool but look at him walk. Now look at Star Trek. Data. He has near god-like speed and does millions upon millions of calculations per second. He could take a whole army of Imperial drones. And if that's just robots & androids, I have absolutely no reason to believe the Star Wars ships are superior.
Gordontrek 8 months ago
@Gordontrek Your problem starts imeadiately when you said "appearance" focusing on the superficial aesthetics.
I don't recal there being ANY Imperial droids shot in the entire film saga. C3PO is a protcol droid, Droids in Star Wars are designed with a far more Utilitarian mindset, often specializing in a particular role. Data is analogous to a General Purpose Human Replica Droid (like Guri), but is far more primitive.
Perion 8 months ago
With the exception of the Probe Droid of course, but it was never designed for combat and it self destructed rather than getting blown up by han's pistol.
Datas calculation speed is 60 trillion per second with a storage capacity of 90,949 TB, however the SyntheTech AA-One nanoprocessor found on 3PO droids has a speed of over 700 trillion per second, and a capacity of 5,000,000 TB. Data is unique, made from technology the Federation does not have access to, C3PO is bog standard.
Perion 8 months ago
i wana see a chuck norris vs starfleet battle
AndyHUN92 8 months ago
Can ya blame the guy for stacking the fight in Star Treks favor? If I had this game, I'd get a Dalek Battlecruiser and Stack everything in it's favor. But then, that would be realistic, not Stacked. As much as I love Doctor Who, I gotta admit, Daleks are the most overpowered bad guys ever :D
notablegoat 8 months ago
@notablegoat Indeed, not even the Empire would be able to stand a chance against them.
Perion 8 months ago
star trek hew gay people.
and gay ship.
and one x-winger destroy your ship.
and one at-at destroy your ship.
get out of the galaxy gay trek
naziempire1 9 months ago
@naziempire1 i dont think you know, but Phasers are more powerful than lasers, and lasers cant even penetrate star trek ship's navigational shields and protons torpedos are weaker than Photons. So i doubt you can call a ship with SUPERIOR firepower to begin with, then put weapons and armor from the FUTURE onto it "gay". one Intrepid class almost certainly kill a fleet of star destroyers
bennie128 8 months ago
@bennie128 Pretty sure I straitened out your misconception, unless you have more. Proton torpedo = 191 megatons shaped charge, Photon torpedo = 48 megaton omnidirectional blast.
Star Wars capital ship guns (called Turbolasers but don't let the name fool you, they have little to nothing in common with the kinds of weapons the Federation call lasers.) Vary from 6 megaton rapid fire anti-fighter light guns, hundreds of gigatons mediums, and dozen teraton heavies on their line destroyers alone.
Perion 8 months ago
@bennie128 The Truth is that a single Star Destroyer outguns the entire Alpha Quadrant, and while Naziempire1 doesn't get any points for etiquette, is is correct in the relative firepower of Star Trek and Star Wars.
Perion 8 months ago
@Perion the whole Alplha quadrant maybe, but the whole of the Star Trek universe?
bennie128 8 months ago
@bennie128 All known corporeal races yes, the only race that has ships that could match 1 on 1 with a Star Destroyer would be maybe, MAYBE the Voth city ship, but only because we know so little about it's capabilities. We do know that the Empire can defeat the Voth through weight of numbers however with ease.
Perion 8 months ago
@Perion especially with the Borg's adaptive capabillities, one cube could possible kill all of the Empire save the deathstar
bennie128 8 months ago
@bennie128 The Borg's adaptive abilities are far from limitless, we have seen the limitations they have in both type and magnitude, the Empire exceeds them in every way.
We saw from First contact that even if they do adapt they can still be damaged, and it took far less firepower to bring the cube down than a single shot from a Turbolaser has.
Perion 8 months ago
@Perion well, we will never know who will win unless it happens in RL :P
bennie128 8 months ago
What game is this????
ReeseK40 9 months ago
Ummm...when Ablantive Armor is Used it blocks the Ships Phaser Arrays only allowing for Torpedo Launchers to be used
Daycrist 9 months ago
be'lanna: target pwned, captain
some0random1person 10 months ago
your voyager dosnt have shields atall, mine still does, and how did you get the star wars ships? i wannt try with my Rhode island class
Masterleeson15 11 months ago
@LibertyLuvr1969 Shame that would never work, transphasic torpedoes work by phasing into subspace to bypass shielding, shields in Star Wars extend into Subspace, so the Torpedoes would be useless.
Perion 1 year ago
@Perion actually they phase out of space time, so subspace can suck it :p
cwag123321 11 months ago
@cwag123321 No those are chroniton torpedoes you're thinking of. Only the Krenim use those and they aren't very powerful.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion even so, shields have one frequency at a time, and transphasics torps emit a pulse in multiple phase states, and since the pulse isn't emitted until impact even multiple shield generators could not adapt frequencies before the torpedo was already inside the ship lol
cwag123321 11 months ago
@cwag123321 sorry, but only Trek shields and weapons are frequency based, as they are made from coherent wave forms.
Star Wars weaponry and shielding is made from incoherent wave forms, which effectively means they have no set modulation frequency at all, making it impossible for the torpedoes to match.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion making them impossible to match what?you said star wars shielding extends into subspace. transphasic torpedoes exist in multiple phases of subspace,where as star wars shielding extends just into subspace.if one component of the transphasic pulse was in the same phase of subspace that the shields were, several others would still be out of phase and penetrate the shielding regardless of the one component of the torpedo that was blocked. Like getting a stone thrown at you then being shot.
cwag123321 11 months ago
@cwag123321 sorry but A) Subspace doesn't work that way and B) you have no proof that Transphasics are even remotely capable of it.
Not only that but you block one part while another tries to get through and guess what happens? it's either held back by the part that isn't getting through or it gets torn apart and/or detonates, either way it's not going to get through the shields. It's not a pulse, it's a torpedo, a solid object.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion my proof :memory-alpha. org/wiki/Transphasic_torpedo
and the torpedo itself isnt a pulse but when it hits something (like a shield) it delivers the pulse, while the torp is destroyed. It's meant to hit a shield, but the pulse spreads through different phases, making it impossible to block them all. the torpedo isn't meant to destroy the ship, it's just the mailman.
cwag123321 11 months ago
@cwag123321 sorry, but Apocrypha isn't canon, and neither are the pocket books.
Even if we accept that for lack of canon alternatives, it still isn't going to penetrate Imperial shields, why? because once again the Incoherent Wave forms. Trek shields can only block one subcomponent because they are phase coherent, so something with multiple phase states can get by. However, Phase Incoherent shielding can potentially block all sub-components. So again, Transphasics aren't getting through.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion incoherent shielding is based off of incoherent frequencies, not phases. so again, one shot, and that precious overrated star destroyer goes boom :)
and btw CBS has accepted Star Trek novels as canon
cwag123321 11 months ago
@cwag123321 And when did CBS ever say anything remotely like that?
Frequencies and phases are closely related, also shields don't extend into subspace on Trek ships the way Star Wars ship shields do. Again even if it's out of phase with the rest than an anyon layer to the shields will fix that easily.
Also it's a mistake to assume that even if you got one through the shields, which isn't going to happen, that it would blow up an ISD.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion 1st, when before dishonor came out
2nd, frequencies and phases are nothing alike, match a frequency and a weapon will blow through the shields, bleeding damage straight to the ships structure. match a phase, and it makes the weapon no more useful than it was. they are almost opposite.
3rd , if a transphasic can destroy a borg cube (just as big if not bigger than an isd) in 1-2 shots, then im fairly sure it can pass through the outdated shields of the empire and blow them to bits.
cwag123321 11 months ago
@cwag123321 sorry, but while Imperial shielding is "older" (in that it was made a long time ago in a galaxy far far away) it is far more advanced and powerful than what the Federation or Borg have.
A Borg cube is made up of ductwork and has no armour whatsoever (except "tactical" cubes which have a few crude plates slapped on), Imperial ship hulls are made out of the same material as the Dyson Sphere, or Iconian structures, Neutronium.
You're going to have to show me the statement from CBS.
Perion 11 months ago
1 Flaw in your logic... the borgs had no shields vs the anti-borg torps... so there's your tip of balance right there.
TonyEvans96 1 year ago
Starfleet would probably win that easily even if Voyager didn't have Ablative hull armor
22cevans 1 year ago
all this shows is how much a star trek fan has to mod his ship so he can feel good about finally killing some star wars ships :D i personally would rather see not such a stacked battle
Hydranium 1 year ago 2
@Hydranium that said, i love both star trek and star wars, i will not pick a side, theres just way too much hostility over something that that should be enjoyed and respected, voyager is still my favourite star trek
Hydranium 1 year ago
@Hydranium Haha, well, it's all in the stats of the ships, right? In this game, the Armored Voyager's torpedos have really high stats, because it should blow up Borg Cubes with one or two shots. Therefore, in Legacy, it will also blow up ISDs in one shot. But, this is something you can enjoy, and if not, it's the wrong video to watch ; )
As you've said, it's just a game, no hostility intended!
STLegacy 1 year ago
@STLegacy :D
Hydranium 1 year ago
@STLegacy Can you introduce Imperial and Executor class star destroyers in the game? How bout waves of TIE fighters? Just interested to see how armored Voyager can deal with those.
williamskidfears 1 year ago
@williamskidfears Well, if you'd look to the In-Game stats, the Armored Voyager would 100% win. It has VERY high stats. Hmm.. I'd have to port those ships, perhaps later, because it's quite a lot of work!
STLegacy 1 year ago
@STLegacy Just curious, seeing how both the Super Star Destroyer, and the Imp I and II classes of Star Destroyer have more teeth than the Victory-class( the Veneator class as well), and Imperial tactics call for waves of TIE fighters and bombers to be sent against cap ships, before the Star Destroyers got within turbolaser range.
Yeah, armored Voyager looks like she's pretty formidable, Bet Picard wished the Ent-E had ablative armor and transphasic torps when he went up against Shitzon.
williamskidfears 1 year ago
@STLegacy yea but there would be to many TIEs for voyager to deal with
some0random1person 10 months ago
@williamskidfears if you knew anything about ablative armor technology then you might be a little less certain of the outcome ;)
cwag123321 11 months ago
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Perion 11 months ago
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Perion 11 months ago
@cwag123321 But armored Voyager's armor is maintained by a generator, like the armor on Admiral Janeway's shuttle, unlike Defiant's armor, which was slapped on in the usual way, correct? So, I'm assuming that the generator can reinforce the armor as it ablates, as opposed to it simply being whittled away and gone forever.
williamskidfears 11 months ago
@williamskidfears provided it can absorb enough damage and reinfoce the armour faster than the armour is destroyed yes. It would be better to call it Regenerative Armour, than Ablative. Unfortunetly when dealing with Firepower of the Magnitude used by the Empire, the ship would be obliterated after the first hit, armour or no.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion That was what I was thinking. The Empire's philosophy's always been "quantity has a quality of its own," especially when Palpatine was alive.
williamskidfears 11 months ago
@STLegacy you assume that an ISD has the same stats as a cube. you know that in a straight up fight the empire would crush the feds. the fact that they have at least 65K yr jump in tech (measured from the respective points of inception of FTL travel) and the advantage of having MILLIONS of worlds across 110K lys from which to draw resources (vs a federation that spans 8K lys according to picard in first contact) never seems to weigh in on the logic that trekies apply to this argument.
simpsonfan13 11 months ago
@simpsonfan13 right so their technology is 65 thousand years older than star treks? lol
cwag123321 11 months ago
@cwag123321 We don't know exactly how "long ago" or how "far far away" the events of Star Wars take place, we do know however that their weaponry is a great deal more powerful than Trek's
Federation Weaponry
Photon Torpedo: 24 megaton effective yield
Quantum Torpedo: 48 megaton effective yield
Transphasic Torpedo: same order of magnitude as above.
Remember how much damage 3 Phaser shots did to the Borg Cube before it adapted? imagine if they fired a torpedo instead, cube would have gone boom.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion well regarding the time we know that in relation to the movies....star wars happened a long long long time ago, and star trek (tng) happens about 300 years in the future.
cwag123321 11 months ago
@cwag123321 Which means that by the time of TNG Star Wars tech is going to be even more advanced by at bare minimum 300 years.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion that is if the empire even survived the constant uprisings due to their lack of ability to keep people happy........and wouldn't 300 years also bring the empire completley different tech and ships? we have to assume they time traveled, and that their weapons were not designed to fight an enemy like the federation, and vice versa. we can speculate what would happen, but at the end of the day its still 2011 and neither star wars hasn't happened and star trek may or may not happen
cwag123321 11 months ago
@cwag123321 As of the latest works in Star Wars, the Empire is stronger than ever. However Because we know more about their tech in the canon timeframes, The usual process is to involve a Wormhole connecting the two galaxies through time and space. Also they don't have to be designed to fight the Federation to be horrifically effective.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion and vice versa,
in ragnarok, Voyager encountered a massive battle that had been continuing for centuries, because each side was adapted to attack the other race, and to defend against it. when Janeway found an exploit in their shielding, the seemingly impenetrable defenses of the dreadnoughts proved worthless as voyagers phasers made pretty patterns on their hulls.
cwag123321 11 months ago
@cwag123321 Sorry but you're going to have to prove that any such exploit exists, or concede. They're not going to be able to technobable their way out of an invading force capable of moving thousands of times faster than even their fastest ships. Are hopelessly outnumbered by ships capable of individually outgunning their entire fleet combined. So on and so forth.
Remember, Federation line ships generally only carry 2-3 torpedo launchers, Imperial line ships are over 4,000,000x more powerful.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion No limits fallacy much? and how good will those ships be when Q snaps his fingers and in a blink of an eye they are gone? Im sure he wouldn't want Aunt Kathy to die.....
cwag123321 11 months ago
@cwag123321 You mean if, to which there's no reason to assume he will. Since he's never done anything of the sort in all the alternate universes/timelines where she's died and humanity was enslaved etc. Q doesn't care much about humans beyond mild amusement, he might hold some level of lark towards specific ones but nothing that would warrant such a thing. The most he might do even in theory is ensure she survives, but he won't fight her battles for her.
Perion 11 months ago
@cwag123321 A No Limits fallacy is when the limitations of something is either unknown or poorly understood, and assume that it doesn't have any limitations at all.
I know what the capabilities and limitations of the Federation ships are, as well as the capabilities and limitations of Imperial ships are, the fact that I can even give a ball park figure and understanding that the sheer scale and how the federation could not possibly win given canon info. Shows that It is not a no limits fallacy.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion Ermmm, which latest works? The Fate of the Force books has them co-equal with the Galactic Alliance, while the Legacy comic book series(137ABY+)has Roan Fel's Empire in exile, the Jedi, and the Galactic Alliance Remnant just now starting to turn the tide against Darth Krayt and the One Sith.
williamskidfears 11 months ago
@williamskidfears between roan fel's empire and darth krayt's they show that the concept and spirit of the Empire is stronger than ever, if not the institution itself.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion I see your point.
williamskidfears 11 months ago
@Perion Also, I would think the Federation, the Roms, the Klingons, and maybe even the Delta and Gamma Quadrant races would give them a run for their money; tech differences aside, it's harder to fight someone who's on their home soil and shooting back at you, even if it's with bows and arrows.
Just ask the Russians about their expiriences in Afghanistan.
(Sides, there's always the possibility of those Rebel scum intervening....)
williamskidfears 11 months ago
@williamskidfears
Russians and Afghans had relatively equal tech when you compare infantry. They both used ak-47s and variants thereof, the main advantage the Russains had were aircraft and tanks etc, but the afghans had anti-aircraft and anti-vehicle weapons available to them.
A better comparison between the Empire vs those powers you mentioned would be a hypothetical modern US invasion of ancient egypt or greece, IE it would be a one sided massacre in favour of the US.
Perion 11 months ago
@williamskidfears
The Problem with Rebel intervention is that it imediately stops being Star Wars vs Star Trek and just turns into Star Wars fighting over the fate of Star Trek,
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion True, but the Rebs would still intervene. :)
williamskidfears 11 months ago
@williamskidfears depends on when the invasion takes place, if it does so while the Rebellion is still the Rebellion then they wouldn't have the resources to commit to such an intervention, as they can barely defend themselves as it is, and are waiting for the right time.
The Empire expanded quite a bit throughout the time when the Rebellion was fighting them, but they never had the ability to help out.
The New Republic on the other hand might if they know what's going on.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion Depends on who's Chief of State at the time. Mon Mothma and Leia for certain, Borsk Fey'lya, on the other hand, if he could stand to gain from it.
williamskidfears 11 months ago
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Perion 11 months ago
@williamskidfears possibly, but again that still runs into problems such as the derailment of the SWvsST concept, becoming simply SW.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion True that be. Sides, I've always jonesed for a Star Wars v. 40K conflict myself.
For the Emperor!
And, may the Force be with you.
williamskidfears 11 months ago
@williamskidfears yeah, that one`s a far more even match.
Perion 11 months ago
@cwag123321
Imperial Weaponry
Fighter Launched Concussion Missile: 191 Megatons.
Medium Turbolaser: 200,000 megatons per shot.
Heavy Turbolaser: 12,000,0000 megatons per shot.
So not only would Transphasics splash against ISD shields, but one shot from their medium guns would reduce even batmobile armoured voyager to stray particles.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion or the ablative armor would do its job and that energy would be dissipated and/or deflected into a huge shockwave of energy, blasting the shields of any ships in the area followed by ionized radiation, infecting all living things within a blast radius the size of two solar systems...............
cwag123321 11 months ago