Tony Perkins looks like a slick salesman. The orthodox fundamentalist Churches are losing membership because people are wising up and realizing they don't want to buy into fear-based lies anymore.
@HarrisonKelm Agreed. 2 bad the Dems think there's an enormous difference between the two parties we have today, and believe that Obama cannot do anything wrong. He's a bigger warmonger than Bush, and the Democratic ideology of nation building is fucked up. Remember all the antiwar protests during Bush's presidency? WHERE THE FUCK ARE THEY NOW? Antigays are retards. Pro Democracy advocates are misinformed. Neo-Conservatives are fucked in the head. the cure? Stop giving these assholes more power.
WOW the anti republican comments are grossly ignorant and stereotypical. We're all NOT Bill Oreilly. Instead of arguing gay marriage should be legalized or not, why not take the constitutional position that the government has absolutely no authority to involve themselves in something so meaningful as marriage? You leave this decision for the shit heads in Washington to vote on? That's pathetic. Stop blaming republicans, and start blaming yourselves for putting up with this shit.
@LivesForJihad, Your comment about christian's rights being trampled on more than non christians is simply nonsense. Last time I checked it was the christian right that has stood in the way of abortions rights, stem cell research , DADT and gay marriage. You actually think a person running for president would get elected if they admitted they were athiest? BTW how are christians rights being trampled?
@TheDalinkwent DADT is not necessary. Proclaiming your gayness or heterosexuality has a time and a place, and the military is not the place. Did it ever occur to you that there are some bigots in the military that actually kill homosexuals. It happens a lot in the Navy, people "lost at sea". Perhaps DADT was to protect gays from harm?
Abortion is not necessary either so long as people have restraint and practice safe sex. If you wanna throw the dice, live with the outcome
@LivesForJihad, Such a typical response. The issue isn't gay people flaunting their sexuality in the military, it's them being kicked out because they were exposed as being gay by outside factors. For example one guy was kicked out when a fellow solider found a picture of his lover by going through his personal bag. Your stance on abortion simply proves you have no issue with governemet getting involved as long as it fits your worldview. You guys can't have it both ways.
@LivesForJihad, BTW abortion is a much more complex issue than simply "safe sex". Most abortions are because money reason's. Some mothers simply can't afford to have a baby and carry it to term, not to mention health risk and the idea of rape and incest. It's also funny that the crhistian right doesn't want governemt involved in helping the mother with medical cost and access, but demand's she have the baby. Like I said you guys can't have it both ways. Either you want smaller gov't or not.
@TheDalinkwent If you don't have the money to CARE for a baby...Why the fuck are you MAKING a baby? This goes back to my point on restraint and safe sex, and by extension, responsibility.
What health risk? This is the 21st century...pregnancy related deaths are near statistical zero. It's like dying of polio in the western world, possible, but VERY unlikely given the resources.
As for Rape? That is tough to refute, but you cannot prove abortion is "ok" with ONE tough argument.
@LivesForJihad, Yea because condoms never bust and birth control is 100% effective (sarcasm) Once again you guys are living in a world of fiction, also your nonsense about there being close to zero health risk when it comes to pregnacy is comical. You guys want government to intrude on a women right to choose and gay people lives while crying about the government having too much power. This conflict in logic proves you guys have zero issue with government oversight when you guys agree with it.
@LivesForJihad, Seeing that you feel strongly about abortion, would you then support government funded pre-natal care and access to health services for when the baby is born? These programs have proven to cut abortion services by more than half.
i dont understand why republicans are so concerned with "protecting the sanctity of marriage" or "saving our morals" they should shut their fucking pie holes and focus on true issues like poverty, healthcare, and the economy
its sad that republicans dont understand that America is a melting pot full of different races and beliefs
republicans are bigots who refuse to let people be themselves
If you live by the old law then you will have to keep the old law and no one has kept the law for all have fallen short of the Glory of God, there for we are saved by GRACE and is a GIFT if God and no one can EARN their way into the Kingdom of God by WORKS or KEEPING THE LAW, All one has to do is to call upon the name of the Lord and you shall be SAVED, and you will not enter into the kingdom of God based on good works of the Law least any one should boast, for it is by faith and FAITH ALONE.
Christianity will soon be a dead religion. In less than one hundred years Christianity will be something you read about in history books and see artifacts in museums. Even now every branch of Christianity is in decline.
clay- "The problem is that the Bible speaks of homosexuality all but entirely in terms of prostitution and pegan orgy.This raises the question as to wheather all same gender relations, not the least of which of marriage, are truly sin."
In fact, no where & particularly no where is this correct or true in the New testament.There is no such description stated or implied (even though it is possible & likely these things were certainly condemned as well) Neither I Cor 6, nor I Tim1 allege that
Tony's Jerkin' uses religion for narrow political gain and projection of his own bigotry. He claims the 2012 elections are all about family values and that social conservatism can be equated with fiscal conservatism. The man is something else.
um the bible does speak on homosexuality as an abomination....it also says you should ill people working on the Sabboth, adulterers, unruly chlidren, shellfish eaters etc etc etc................ (psst men wrote the bible not god)
@MamaMario13 "There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." I'll pray for you.
Tony Perkins: another sad sorry self-hating closet case. One reason that many of these anti-gay bigots feel so threatened by homosexuality is because they feel a strong urge to have sex with men. It's the only explanation for why the existence of homosexuality gives them such a sense of impending doom.
Jesus walked around with 12 dudes and he wasnt married...Hmmmm methinks these christians are blind and have no idea they worship a bunch of homos ahahaha sooo ironic and funny for these haters
You are totally right about the oxymoron of "Gay christian". Gays are loving and kind and accepting (not to mention fun and creative) and "christians" are hypocritical, hateful evil doers who would kill gays if they could get away with it, and continue to claim that their god told them to do it. christians are anything but christian. Christ told us to love one another, not hate those whom you disagree with. religion is dying out and thank God for that.
Actually he did: 5And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. 6But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 7For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
@liw213 Im a gay agnostic but I think religion is a private thing for a person so you have no right to tell them whether or not they are "true christians" or "true muslims"
Dobson's not about to give up his archaic understanding of sexuality because continuing to spread his hate, lies, and misrepresentations lines his coffers.
Mel White is the true follower of Christ. Not those charlatan, quasi-Christian ministers and purveyors of hate.
Even if we evolved (which would have to be defined), you still haven't explained where this "innate morality" comes from. When you say things like "stealing, killing, etc is wrong" you make absolute claims, and you have said why you think it's wrong, but not where this moral law comes from. If you say it evolved, then you would have to say at some point in history, it was actually good. The theory that our morality is evolving is easily debunked, just turn on the news.
@Olamv cont.. As I stated, it's not merely "my way" as you put it. It's God's way. I simply accept that as truth and apply it to my life. You are the one who is guilty of what you accused me of (my way is the only right way). Since you have no objective morality to refer to, your point is reduced to "because I say so". BTW if objective morality doesn't exist, who are you to say anything is good or evil in the absolute sense? It should always be prefaced by "I think" or "I believe".
@swarmis Ah, good. Progress. I think I understand what you mean. You need some outside reference to base your morality on, and you've found one. Fair enough. Now then: Should everyone, in your opinion, follow the bible?
@swarmis Also, while I did say that I don't think there's an objective morality (as in, something outside of us that makes us moral), I did hasten to add that I think that a moral sense is entirely innate to us, and that religion borrows heavily from this internal moral compass. I also gave a reason for why I think this is the case.
@Olamv If we are created with an innate morality, that is an objective morality. Our conscience is a major proof of the fact that morality is objective. A good definition of evil is a failure to function in the intended purpose, which is good. You say it's just in us, but that's only scratching the surface. You cannot have a moral law without a moral law giver. Where does this 'innate morality" come from?
@swarmis And this is where we split apart completely. You say we are 'created'. I don't think we are created at all, but are a product of evolution. As such, there's a distinct advantage to a species (especially a social one, like ours) being able to agree that killing each other is wrong, sharing resources with other members if good, stealing is wrong, and so on. No lawgiver needed. And speaking of law: Should everyone follow the laws given in the bible? Should our laws be based on scripture?
@Olamv So you seem to enjoy the topic of morality, and you have repeatedly accused me of telling you my way is the right way etc. But really I've only defended what the Bible teaches(not MY way). Hypocritically you are guilty of telling me your way, since your morality is of a personal conviction(with no objective truth source). Do you believe that objective morality exists?(3rd time)
@swarmis I'm sorry, what? You've held up the bible as /the/ source, /the/ authority, /the/ unalterable and true word of god himself in this little discussion. You've actually told me it's Divine Truth. And /now/ you try to weasel out of it by saying "Oh, the bible only /teaches/ this, I don't actually /follow/ it."?
I think that in the possible hypocrisy sweepstakes you've got me beat rather handily, don't you?
@Olamv Dont twist my text bud. My point was clear, as I stated I'm defending what the Bible teaches, which gives me an objective truth source. Not merely MY own personal opinion. Understanding things in context is important, hopefully this clears that up. I'm not going to keep this discussion going, unless you afford me the same respect I give you, and answer my questions.
@swarmis Actually, no, this is important. If you believe that the bible is an objective source of truth, you either follow it, or you don't. I'm not twisting your words one bit: You say the bible is divine, revealed truth (I don't believe that for a second, personally). Then you say that you're only defending what it /teaches/, which more than implies that it's not what you actually /follow/.
Which is it? Because either you sincerely believe in what you're saying, or you don't.
@Olamv Please explain to me how it is incompatable to defend a worldview, and actually follow it also. Again my point is that the Biblical worldview has a reference point, an objective foundation that is far superior to my personal opinions on topics pertaining to spirituality, life, morality etc. So it is not merely "my opinion" that I'm relying on since God has given revelation through his written word. You've base this argument on me saying "my way is the only right way" and ....
@swarmis As for your question, do I believe in an objective morality? No. I don't. I do, however, /think/ we have an innate moral sense, because no society can survive without rules like "Don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, and treat others like you want to be treated."
I think I know where this question wants to lead me, and before you argue that it's proof of the god of the bible giving us this morality, let me point out that Hinduism came to the same conclusion. Why are they wrong?
@Olamv cont.. on 3 different continents, across a time span of about 2 thousand years, and has the common thread of Salvation through Christ woven through from cover to cover. Not only is it completely cohesive, but the historical validity of the prohpetic value surpasses any human understanding. The fact is that it is supernatural, but whether you accpet it as God's word is up to you my friend. Please show me another book that compares... I wont hold my breath.
@swarmis Er, no. Of course I can't. Because you've stipulated impossible characteristics to fulfill. Let's review them, shall we? You say I can't point to a book that's
a) consists of 66 books by 40 different authors (this I can do)
b) on 3 different continents (... Yep.)
c) across a time span of about 2 thousand years (Sure)
d) and has the common thread of Salvation through Christ woven through from cover to cover.
That is a lovely little logical fallacy you've built up there. [cont]
@swarmis By including that last little paragraph, you've presupposed (again) that your way is the only right way. You don't seem to realize that it doesn't /matter one jot/ to me if it's true or not, because I do not care. I /do/ however, care when you're advocating for coming into my life and telling me how to live it, whether I'm gay or not.
Given the scenario outlined above: Do you think a couple married under the rules I put up, are married, or not? It's a simple yes or no question.
@Olamv cont.. It is a reasonable deduction to conclude that John was referring to a distinctly different cleansing than what is mentioned in the synoptic Gospels. Any other challenges, I'm happy to defend but I'll need a chapter and verse.
"What makes the Bible so much more worthy?" It's the word of God. Gnite.
@swarmis So, if I'm getting this straight, the bible is more worthy because it's the word of god, yes? And it's the word of god because it says so in the bible? I'm really not trying be annoying about this, but I'm genuinely curious why this should have any weight in a discussion beyond 'it's my personal opinion'. Now, I could go on to list chapter and verse for contradictions up and down, but it'd be a sideline of the issue: You are using your religion to justify a position, (cont)
@swarmis (cont) and by doing so, you are opening your religious text to critique. And I'm not the rudest or even most obnoxious individual out here in the world who would do so. Using the holy text of your faith, you are saying, in essence "This is right, and I do not have to give any reason for it". This does not lead to others wanting to take you very seriously.
Would you take a muslim or hindu seriously if they suggested that you weren't, say, married because you didn't follow their faith?
@Olamv Lets think objectively, you say since it's recorded in ancient text (that stands the test of historical scrutiny) it is somehow not qualified to be applicable as a Gods word. Ironically you are the one who has the burden of proof because your position is justified by "because I say so". And you avoided my question, does objective morality exist?
I'll give you an opportunity to show me a comparable book. One that's like in that it consists of 66 books by 40 different authors..
@swarmis Putting it another way, is a man and a woman who haven't had a church ceremony, but still have the state document proclaiming them married, having taken their vows in public, in front of the capitol (state or federal makes no difference) still married? The law says yes. What do you say? Would you go up to them and proclaim them not married, since they haven't followed the strictures of your faith? What about christians not of your particular denomination?
@Olamv Sure they are married, according to the state if it is a legally binding covenant. But that does not mean that it is a Biblical Covenant. The Bible is emphatically clear on the definition of a marriage. But I wouldn't tell them "you're not married because you're not Christian." My parents were'nt Christian when they got married. So there is a difference between a Biblical Covenant, and a Secular State Covenant. Both are marriages, but with different meanings.
@swarmis Excellent. Finally a point of agreement. We agree then: Marriage doesn't have to include any god, any religion, and it doesn't have to be about faith at all. The only prerequisite is that there are two consenting adults who love each other.
Now, given this... Would you support "secular state covenants" for homosexuals? And if you /wouldn't/, think carefully about why you wouldn't.
The word tells us to "place all things in light of scripture and hold fast to that which is good." Also I dont believe that modern prophets(in a classical Biblical sense) exist, the cannon of scripture is complete, and that's what the Bible teaches. Read the last verse in Revelation. I am constantly faced with situations, suggestions, differing advice etc. And I go directly to the truth source and make sure it's in line with God's will.
Laviticus was'nt a person it's a collection of values set out by a smal tribe "Levit" one of the 12 tribes of Isreal - the future of any tribe thousands of years ago depended on the capacity to breed and so they chose to discourage homosexual - Greeks took a different view - not quite sure why christians do as population numbers high.
@Olamv I owe you an apology, I assumed that you were attempting to justify your own lifestyle. I dont know you, and therefore it was wrong for me to say that. Sorry. Maybe your just defending it from an objective standpoint.
@Olamv I'm sure you'll agree that since the Bible doesn't record Jesus condemning pedos, beastiality, polygamy, and many other sexual perversions, those who practice them are not justified. But the real question I have for you is, if you dont believe the Bible is Gods word, why do you attempt to use it to justify your lifestyle?
And for the record, I dont consider homosexuality any worse than fornication. They are both sins in need of repentence and forgiveness through Jesus.
@swarmis Oh, I'm not trying to justify anything by using the bible. You, however, are trying to justify yourself with scripture, and I'm wondering why and how you're doing that. I also note you're not answering my question: If someone walks up to you on the street tomorrow and claims that Jesus speaks to them, would you believe them? If you'd believe them, why? If you wouldn't, why not?
@Olamv cont... rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness.." So in that sense it was Jesus speaking through the Apostle Paul. Do you believe the Bible is the word of God?
@swarmis I'm more curious as to why you'd take Paul's word for him being right, or speaking on Jesus' behalf, considering that he apparently never met him, never spoke to him, and never had any contact with him until well after Jesus was dead? In Second Timothy, what you have is a man whose only authority is that he /claims/ to have Jesus speaking through him. Why would you believe him? If you met someone on the street tomorrow claiming that Jesus speaks through him, would you believe him?
@swarmis As it happens, No I don't believe the bible is the word of god. However, I'm assuming, for the sake of argument, that Jesus was, indeed the word made flesh and everything you want to attribute to him. That doesn't in /any way/ make Paul more likely to be right (and Second Timothy is still written by Paul, by the way). If someone came up to you in the street tomorrow and claimed that they were inspired by and spoke for Jesus, would you believe them? If not, why believe Paul?
@Olamv At the risk of sounding redundant... As I explained before the Bible is God breathed, cover to cover, and each chapter and verse can be understood in context of the Bible as a whole. The topic of sexuality, and more specifically homosexuality is brought up many times, not just by the Apostle Paul in the NT. I believe that each person used by God to author individual books of the Bible was speaking and writing scripture inspired by God.
They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy.
Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Why do many fundamentalist christian homoloathers like Tony Perkins love adultery and adulterers so much? You don't see them throwing confirmed, admitted, and often repeat adulterers out of office or out of their party.
GINGRICH, LIMBAUGH, VITTER, MC CAIN, CRAIG, PALADINO, GIULIANI, BARR, ENSIGN
Tony perkins speaks the truth, someday the homosexuals will run and hide to try to escape their judgement but it will be to late. One more thing for the liar mel white, the bible clearly states that homosexuality is an abomination..
@saddlebrook9 You are on the wrong side of history. Christians always have a "group" they have oppressed or vilified and justified it with bible quotes: Jews, blacks, women, athiests, scientists, gypsies, gays, etc. And after years of treachery against an entire group of people, you always end up looking like fools. What would you guys do with your time if you didnt have an entire group to hate?
@Traitorfish It's clear that God's design for sexuality is one man and one woman in a marriage relationship. This go's back to Adam and Eve. The fact that Jesus doesn't mention homosexuals doesn't mean he condone's it, he also doesn't mention pedophilia, and beastiality. Do you think he's impartial to those sexual lifestyle's? He does mention the ideal design, which is one man and one woman. He loves you just as much as me, but he want's both of us to repent and be set free from sin.
@swamislocal1 could you please quote what jesus said about homosexuals? I know where it is in the old testament, its between the law about not eating shellfish, and the law about stoning women who commit adultery...a few pages from where a sea opens in two to let people walk through (but yet god didnt prevent 9/11 from happening...how does he choose his miracles anyway?)
@hotmarriedgays Since you have rejected the Bible as a source of truth, why do you want me to quote Jesus?
Mark 10;6-9 "But from the begining of creation, God made them MALE and FEMALE. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother, and the two shall become one flesh. What therefore God has brought together, let no man separate." Also read Romans ch.1. The attempt to reconcile homosexuality and God's blessing on a relationship is impossible according to scripture. Repent my friend.
@swamislocal1 That passage in the bible, begining with Mark 10 verse 2 is about DIVORCE, not homosexuality. You don't even read the bible. And Jesus said NOTHING about homosexuality, thats why you cant find any verses. Also...you fail to explain why Christians cherry pick from Leviticus, choosing only to defend certain laws, but not the ones that are clearly dated and ridiculous (i.e. about eating shellfish). Why do you get to decide what parts are still valid?
@hotmarriedgays Yes, he's talkin about marriage and divorce. And he clearly states God's ideal design for marriage, which is why I quoted it. Jesus isn't recorded in the New Testament for condeming homosexuality, but he is the Yahweh of the Old Testament also, so I dont expect him to reiterate a point that is crystal clear. He also didn't condemn pedo's or beastiality, but it would be foolish to assume those pervs get a hall pass. Beside Leviticus and the OT, what do you think about Rom;1?
@swamislocal1 The bottom line is you justify discrimination and persecution of gays based on a few verses in the OT. At some point explain why you follow some laws of the bible, but ignore hundreds of others that are clearly obsolete. No one had ever given a satisfactory answer to this. Very few Christians have actually read the bible, and they simply know the verses that support whatever prejudicial warpath they happen to be on at the moment. This is the central hypocrisy of Christianity.
@hotmarriedgays Why do you keep pointing me back to the O.T, I'm quoting New Testament, and I'm not anti gay, I'm anti sin. This includes fornication which I'll call out to my Christian brothers on in a heartbeat. If you dont claim the name of Jesus as your savior, than I have no business trying to rebuke you and I appoligize. If you do, I'd like to help you see what the word says. So back to Romans ch1;24-28 and 1corinthiansch6;9-10.
@Olamv Your correct, it wasn't the incarnate son of God(Jesus), however the Bible teaches that Jesus is the Yahweh referred to throughout the whole Bible, and in John;1 it says "in the begining was the word, the word was God and the word was with God........ the word became flesh" This is referring to the incarnation of the Messiah(Jesus), therefore Jesus is the living word of God. This concept is also brought up in 2Tim3;16"All scripture is God breathed and is usefull for teaching, rebuking..
@Olamv If you reject the authority of scripture, and you're not "trying to justify anything using the Bible", why do you care who wrote the letter to the Romans or Corinthians?
@swarmis Again, I care because /you/ sir/ma'am are trying to justify yourself using scripture. If you're going to do that, I'm going to ask /why/. What makes the bible so much more "worthy" of consideration that you can dismiss every other person's opinion out of hand Especially when Genesis manages to contradict itself twice. Also. When Jesus drove the moneylenders from the temples, did he do it a week before he died (Mark 11:15) or at the beginning of his three year ministry (John 2:13)?
@Olamv There are two possible answers to this question. 1. The Gospel was written thematically and not chronologically. 2. He cleansed the temple twice. I tend to agree with the 2nd option especially since the details given in John's account are completely different than Matt, Mark, Luke. In John 2;20 the Jews refer to the temple rebuilding having begun 46 years earlier. This would date the cleasing to about AD 27 or 28. But Jesus was almost certainly not crucified until AD30. cont....
"We love you, but we hate you. We love you, but we don't want you to have rights."
It's so true. Christians need to stop saying "we love gay people, but they are just against gay marriage" or "we love gay people, we just don't want them in the military" or "we love gay people, we just want to give them the option of being straight" or "we love gay people, but they are going to Hell."
If you love them, you don't constantly fight to repress them and hurt them. If you love them, there is no "but"
i'd love to know what drives the hate in tony perkins. exactly why does he carry on such a crusade against gay people. exactly what is wrong with him!
Tony Perkins is artificial and so transparent. Just another christian brainwashed by that dam book.
Tony Perkins needs to sit down with about ten effeminate gay people at a dinner table and if he has two eyes to see and a mind that thinks he just might begin to see gay people are real.
I can't wait to see Perkins and James Dobson lose the war they wage against gay people.
Religion definitely is a thread to the United States of America, jummm ... i don't know why, but i kinda feel USA is on the road to join their fundamentalist fellas in middle east, fuck the land of the free, 'cause it isn't anymore, not since there is religion involved in politics ...
Jesus Here, Jesus There, Jesus please fuck me, Jesus please make me rich, As i love jesus i discriminate, As i love holy jesus christ i kill others, As im a fucking religious fundamentalist brain washed citizen i have the right to hate others, As i am jesus personified i can ask others to change, as i read the bible i can ... as i love jesus ...
SIMPLY FUCK JESUS, AND ANY OTHER PHYCOPATHIC FICTIONAL RELIGIOUS CHARACTER ... WHY POLITICIANS CARE ABOUT FUCKKKKING RELIGION ?????
Christianity is in decline because radical idiots think its cool to use the bible as a wepon to push their own agender - looks like they are more a threat to USA than any islam jehad - Jesus was not homophobic so why are they ?
@ma7799 Double whammy you managed to get "deviant" and "need to feel better about themselves" in one sentence -with an attitude like that we not suprised homosexuals seem activist to you - Some people are attracted to the same gender - they never asked to be - its just how it is - some get really miffed when faced with predudice however they are not burning Korans or picketing soldiers funerals. Is it so radical to you that a same sex loving couple should want to get married or adopt ?
@trevortrevortsr2 Amusingly, last year my own country gave homosexual couples full and equal rights to marry, adopt, and so on and so forth. And society is still ticking along nicely. Children still go to school. People still go to work. Taxes are still getting paid. The economy hasn't collapsed. There are no orgies in the streets. "The Gay" hasn't spread like a plague. In fact, everything continues much as it did before, except now more people get to enjoy certain basic human rights.
@Olamv In Norway gays have been getting married since the 80's - its really quite rediculous to accuse gays of being hedonistic then try and withold the establishments that encourage security and fidelity.
@trevortrevortsr2 Well, yes and no. They've been able to enter into civil unions for quite some time (and, yes, society didn't suffer any then, either). In the session of 2008, however, parliament finally made civil unions a thing of the past by altering the laws regarding marriage, something not easily done. The law took effect on the 1st of January 2009. Now there's only marriage, with the same rights and obligations, whether for straight or gay couples. I apologise for the earlier error.
@Olamv We have civil unions in UK but most just call them marriage - all 3 main political parties have said that they will table motions to make cival unions marriage - its really only the church that are baulking and they are begining to realise that are out of touch with society - people are just sick of descrimination and that whole glass half empty approach.
@trevortrevortsr2 I can only say good luck to the UK, and (if you'll pardon the expression) godspeed. Time marches on, and with luck, in some twenty years we'll look back and wonder why it was ever an issue, shaking our heads at the how silly people were "back then". The day the UK passes an amended marriage law, I will have a celebratory drink, just as I did when we passed ours, and as I did for Spain, Sweden, Portugal, and every state in the US.
"Who will God punish more; Me for loving, or you for hating?"
I don't remember who said it, but it is true. If you think that God wants people to hate each other and oppress all those that disagree with what they *think* the bible means, then I honestly feel sorry for you.
We're lead to believe that God created the torso, head, arms, and legs and it was the Devil that slapped on the genitals. Screw all of you who think gays are in any way less.
Rev. White's little god Satan is the author of gay behavior. The real God created heterosexual people and gave them a free will. With that free will, they chose to obey God and his commandments or act on their own sexual inpulses with Satan wispering in their ears, "what I'm doing sexually with another man is ok". Rev. White is decieved about his actions and what Jesus teaches. Jesus is the ultimate author of all the Bible because He is God. This includes all the scriptures gays want to ignore
@spooderdoggy I'm not gay but I ignore all the "scriptures" as it's all mythological horseshit. Gays are treated horribly by society, and it's usually Bible thumping homophobes that are the cruelest to gays. Next time you talk to your god tell her that I would love to stick my tongue up her pussy, then I can show her what it feel like to be pleasured by a member of the same sex. Unless of course the whole "god" thing is a load of mythological horseshit made up by people.
Tony Perkins is a very evil man, he is constantly trying to incite a hate roit to attack members of the gay community. He babbles about his god and in doing so he pushes hate, this needs to stop. Hate is a destructive force that only destroys everything it touches, it will even destroy him in the end. Enough is enough with the homophobic hatred coming from people like Perkins. Homosexuality is a natural part of the world we live in and nothing he does is going to change the natural world.
Fundreamer1, how sad that you believe the Lord, creator of all things in heaven and earth, is so incompetent that He doesn't know what He's doing, when he creates His children the way he wants them.
@GodCreatesGays2 ANSWER these questions : 1)Where did you get info on God,heaven and hell? 2)What is your gods name? 3)Explain salvation & where you learned of it.
4)How do you know of any of the teachings of Jesus? 5)From where do you derive your moral code?
OR ADMIT YOU ARE too AFRAID to answer, too WEAK to be honest , or too STUPID to know the difference.
YOU are the gift that keeps on giving by continually exposing your own hypocrisy and ignorance
I have to wonder how much TP is motivated by genuine concern while helping to build that shelter in Honduras and how much he is motivated by the desire to indoctrinate uneducated people and to validate his beliefs........
why are ppl so hung up on what they think Jesus or God DON'T LIKE? all people that have faith agree on the fact that God and Jesus LIKE love, tolerance, sharing, caring. focus on that!
Tony Perkins is probably going to be found blowing a homeless person in a public bathroom some time soon (like nearly ALL of the public Christian homophobes).
If you're going to be so literal in your depiction of homosexuality, then it's indeed easy to be a Christian and say that a man putting his penis in another man's rectum is not a sin: the Bible doesn't say anything about penises in rectums.
anyone who says the bible doesn't talk about homosexuality is either being willfully ignorant, has no reading comprehension, or just hasn't read the bible. Jesus affirms the marriage model between man and woman, and Moses and St. Paul condemn it in explicit fashion, especially in Romans chapter 1 and Leviticus 18. "Reverend" Mel white should at least stop lying and playing to victim card.
@GOPguy826 How do you actually KNOW that?? You don't..and it's like that's ALL they do!! I used to be like you and after having my eyes opened by God to embrace these people rather than slam them, comments like yours is simply offensive as well as reveals what a dirty mind YOU have.
@GOPguy826 Hey, at least you're not hiding behind the buy bull in expressing your opinion. According to the buybull, eating certain types of seafood is a sin and unruly children should be put to death. This is all right along side the "men who lie with men is an abomination" directive. I guess we should ban seafood and start killing brats.......
The same way you can be Christian and say that a woman appearing before a priest while she's on her cycle, isn't a sin.... when the same book (Leviticus) and the same chapter (20) says quite specifically that it is.
Ditto for eating pork, shellfish, or wearing polyester.
Tony Perkins is one of the last vestiges of America's past, I hope that there will still be people like him to last into a time when all that is normal is being warped into irreversable directions. Go Team Tony!
A better question is "when will the Family Research Council" start putting a lot more effort into addressing the things that TRULY split families apart, like divorce, infidelity, financial strife, infertility, etc.
@ImmortalSynn That's a good point. I think most Christians even if they believe homosexuality is a sin (which many don't!) don't put it above other sin and aren't completely fixated on it like the FRC is. I think (hope) that Perkins and his crew will eventually succeed in alienating their base of faithful, compassionate Christians, so that those individuals can put effort into something that will actually do some good in the world.
Tony Perkins looks like a slick salesman. The orthodox fundamentalist Churches are losing membership because people are wising up and realizing they don't want to buy into fear-based lies anymore.
JHNative 1 week ago
that tony guy gives me the creeps he seriously looks evil with that smile
alexst99 2 weeks ago
Tony Perkins just looks evil with that smile!
WinterWonder99 3 weeks ago
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Perkins is a mendacious bigot who rails against American values of freedom and equality.
seahorse05 1 month ago
Tony Perkins is absolutely correct, as usual. We need more like him.
revhowardgoss 2 months ago
Tony doesn't even know what a fucking bigot he is. I have a feeling he'll get a clue one day
MRBBJC 2 months ago
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HarrisonKelm 2 months ago
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HarrisonKelm 2 months ago
@HarrisonKelm Agreed. 2 bad the Dems think there's an enormous difference between the two parties we have today, and believe that Obama cannot do anything wrong. He's a bigger warmonger than Bush, and the Democratic ideology of nation building is fucked up. Remember all the antiwar protests during Bush's presidency? WHERE THE FUCK ARE THEY NOW? Antigays are retards. Pro Democracy advocates are misinformed. Neo-Conservatives are fucked in the head. the cure? Stop giving these assholes more power.
Jsteww1 2 months ago
WOW the anti republican comments are grossly ignorant and stereotypical. We're all NOT Bill Oreilly. Instead of arguing gay marriage should be legalized or not, why not take the constitutional position that the government has absolutely no authority to involve themselves in something so meaningful as marriage? You leave this decision for the shit heads in Washington to vote on? That's pathetic. Stop blaming republicans, and start blaming yourselves for putting up with this shit.
Ron Paul 2012
HarrisonKelm 2 months ago 2
Tony's Jerkin' (Again!).
Tsnore 2 months ago
@LivesForJihad We dont generalize. All republicans arent anti-gay. Its just that most anti-gay supporters are republicans.
suicidefilming 2 months ago
REPUBLICANS NEED TO UNDERSTAND SOMETHING:
NOT EVERYONE IN AMERICA IS CHRISTIAN
iamawesome1001 2 months ago
@iamawesome1001 Democrats also need to understand something: There are people in the US who are Christian.
Non Christians trample on the rights of others more than any Christian could ever hope to.
LivesForJihad 2 months ago
@LivesForJihad, Your comment about christian's rights being trampled on more than non christians is simply nonsense. Last time I checked it was the christian right that has stood in the way of abortions rights, stem cell research , DADT and gay marriage. You actually think a person running for president would get elected if they admitted they were athiest? BTW how are christians rights being trampled?
TheDalinkwent 4 weeks ago
@TheDalinkwent DADT is not necessary. Proclaiming your gayness or heterosexuality has a time and a place, and the military is not the place. Did it ever occur to you that there are some bigots in the military that actually kill homosexuals. It happens a lot in the Navy, people "lost at sea". Perhaps DADT was to protect gays from harm?
Abortion is not necessary either so long as people have restraint and practice safe sex. If you wanna throw the dice, live with the outcome
LivesForJihad 4 weeks ago
@LivesForJihad, Such a typical response. The issue isn't gay people flaunting their sexuality in the military, it's them being kicked out because they were exposed as being gay by outside factors. For example one guy was kicked out when a fellow solider found a picture of his lover by going through his personal bag. Your stance on abortion simply proves you have no issue with governemet getting involved as long as it fits your worldview. You guys can't have it both ways.
TheDalinkwent 4 weeks ago
@LivesForJihad, BTW abortion is a much more complex issue than simply "safe sex". Most abortions are because money reason's. Some mothers simply can't afford to have a baby and carry it to term, not to mention health risk and the idea of rape and incest. It's also funny that the crhistian right doesn't want governemt involved in helping the mother with medical cost and access, but demand's she have the baby. Like I said you guys can't have it both ways. Either you want smaller gov't or not.
TheDalinkwent 4 weeks ago
@TheDalinkwent If you don't have the money to CARE for a baby...Why the fuck are you MAKING a baby? This goes back to my point on restraint and safe sex, and by extension, responsibility.
What health risk? This is the 21st century...pregnancy related deaths are near statistical zero. It's like dying of polio in the western world, possible, but VERY unlikely given the resources.
As for Rape? That is tough to refute, but you cannot prove abortion is "ok" with ONE tough argument.
LivesForJihad 3 weeks ago
@LivesForJihad, Yea because condoms never bust and birth control is 100% effective (sarcasm) Once again you guys are living in a world of fiction, also your nonsense about there being close to zero health risk when it comes to pregnacy is comical. You guys want government to intrude on a women right to choose and gay people lives while crying about the government having too much power. This conflict in logic proves you guys have zero issue with government oversight when you guys agree with it.
TheDalinkwent 3 weeks ago
@LivesForJihad, Seeing that you feel strongly about abortion, would you then support government funded pre-natal care and access to health services for when the baby is born? These programs have proven to cut abortion services by more than half.
TheDalinkwent 3 weeks ago
@TheDalinkwent I would support any legislation that supports keeping a child over performing an abortion, including what you suggested.
LivesForJihad 3 weeks ago
i dont understand why republicans are so concerned with "protecting the sanctity of marriage" or "saving our morals" they should shut their fucking pie holes and focus on true issues like poverty, healthcare, and the economy
its sad that republicans dont understand that America is a melting pot full of different races and beliefs
republicans are bigots who refuse to let people be themselves
iamawesome1001 2 months ago
@iamawesome1001 You have Anti-gay democrats as well.
You even have people in the gay community who agree with the republicans. Don't generalize people...but that is what Democrats do I guess...
LivesForJihad 2 months ago
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If you live by the old law then you will have to keep the old law and no one has kept the law for all have fallen short of the Glory of God, there for we are saved by GRACE and is a GIFT if God and no one can EARN their way into the Kingdom of God by WORKS or KEEPING THE LAW, All one has to do is to call upon the name of the Lord and you shall be SAVED, and you will not enter into the kingdom of God based on good works of the Law least any one should boast, for it is by faith and FAITH ALONE.
PaulGeoffreySmith 3 months ago
Anti-gay tyrants : Drop Dead!
Pilgrim812 3 months ago
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Tony Perkins fists himself while paying illegal immigrants to asphyxiate him. These are facts.
thematt5738 3 months ago
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thematt5738 3 months ago
Tony is a lying cunt!
macrent2 3 months ago
Christianity will soon be a dead religion. In less than one hundred years Christianity will be something you read about in history books and see artifacts in museums. Even now every branch of Christianity is in decline.
allthatfun 4 months ago
Im not religious but I admire the presbyterian and episcopalian churches for supporting gay rights
MamaMario13 5 months ago
GOOD JOB MEL, and Tony JERKINS does MORE harm to religion than help it. Way to turn off people from your fucking stupid religion Tony
fitasafiddle123 5 months ago 2
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clay- "The problem is that the Bible speaks of homosexuality all but entirely in terms of prostitution and pegan orgy.This raises the question as to wheather all same gender relations, not the least of which of marriage, are truly sin."
In fact, no where & particularly no where is this correct or true in the New testament.There is no such description stated or implied (even though it is possible & likely these things were certainly condemned as well) Neither I Cor 6, nor I Tim1 allege that
shieldsff 5 months ago
Tony's Jerkin' uses religion for narrow political gain and projection of his own bigotry. He claims the 2012 elections are all about family values and that social conservatism can be equated with fiscal conservatism. The man is something else.
Tippersnore 5 months ago
@Tippersnore 'Tony Jerkins' ?...lol LOVE that one! Fuck Tony Perkins
fitasafiddle123 5 months ago
um the bible does speak on homosexuality as an abomination....it also says you should ill people working on the Sabboth, adulterers, unruly chlidren, shellfish eaters etc etc etc................ (psst men wrote the bible not god)
PimpMyParadigm 5 months ago
@MamaMario13 "There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." I'll pray for you.
swarmis 6 months ago
Tony Perkins: another sad sorry self-hating closet case. One reason that many of these anti-gay bigots feel so threatened by homosexuality is because they feel a strong urge to have sex with men. It's the only explanation for why the existence of homosexuality gives them such a sense of impending doom.
lking000 6 months ago
Not everyone is christian and does not believe the way others do, stop being the bullies that treated me like shit as a kid.
CapricornThunder 7 months ago 2
Jesus walked around with 12 dudes and he wasnt married...Hmmmm methinks these christians are blind and have no idea they worship a bunch of homos ahahaha sooo ironic and funny for these haters
XxpauldadudexX 7 months ago
Tony Perkins is a closeted Drag Queen!!! Put a wig on honey, u'll look FIERCE!!
LOL
Sexycosy 7 months ago 2
Why the F*** to we have to get into political discussions about Jesus? Keep your religion to yourself.
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
@woppy42 He is too soft for an adult male. He's either gay or a pedo.
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
All Perkins and his buddies are doing is making people hate Christianity. Keep it up Perkins.
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
is that a natural selection argument in favor of Christianity??
ouch2112 7 months ago
You are totally right about the oxymoron of "Gay christian". Gays are loving and kind and accepting (not to mention fun and creative) and "christians" are hypocritical, hateful evil doers who would kill gays if they could get away with it, and continue to claim that their god told them to do it. christians are anything but christian. Christ told us to love one another, not hate those whom you disagree with. religion is dying out and thank God for that.
tattoojay2011 8 months ago
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IndyCub86 9 months ago
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JESUS SAID !
Mark 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
MALE & FEMALE -- God does NOT and will never aprove of homosexuality -- NOT then and NOT now.
Homosexuality has been accepted through political constitutions under the guise of equal rights. This is WRONG!
wilby1414 9 months ago
@wilby1414 Actually, Jesus didn't say any of that.
IndyCub86 9 months ago
@IndyCub86
Actually he did: 5And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. 6But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 7For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
wilby1414 9 months ago
The words "Gay Christian" is an Oxymoron.Two words that dont belong together.
liw213 9 months ago
@liw213 Im a gay agnostic but I think religion is a private thing for a person so you have no right to tell them whether or not they are "true christians" or "true muslims"
MamaMario13 6 months ago
Dobson's not about to give up his archaic understanding of sexuality because continuing to spread his hate, lies, and misrepresentations lines his coffers.
Mel White is the true follower of Christ. Not those charlatan, quasi-Christian ministers and purveyors of hate.
reflectivelife 9 months ago 2
Even if we evolved (which would have to be defined), you still haven't explained where this "innate morality" comes from. When you say things like "stealing, killing, etc is wrong" you make absolute claims, and you have said why you think it's wrong, but not where this moral law comes from. If you say it evolved, then you would have to say at some point in history, it was actually good. The theory that our morality is evolving is easily debunked, just turn on the news.
swarmis 9 months ago
@Olamv cont.. As I stated, it's not merely "my way" as you put it. It's God's way. I simply accept that as truth and apply it to my life. You are the one who is guilty of what you accused me of (my way is the only right way). Since you have no objective morality to refer to, your point is reduced to "because I say so". BTW if objective morality doesn't exist, who are you to say anything is good or evil in the absolute sense? It should always be prefaced by "I think" or "I believe".
swarmis 9 months ago
@swarmis Ah, good. Progress. I think I understand what you mean. You need some outside reference to base your morality on, and you've found one. Fair enough. Now then: Should everyone, in your opinion, follow the bible?
Olamv 9 months ago
@swarmis Also, while I did say that I don't think there's an objective morality (as in, something outside of us that makes us moral), I did hasten to add that I think that a moral sense is entirely innate to us, and that religion borrows heavily from this internal moral compass. I also gave a reason for why I think this is the case.
Olamv 9 months ago
@Olamv If we are created with an innate morality, that is an objective morality. Our conscience is a major proof of the fact that morality is objective. A good definition of evil is a failure to function in the intended purpose, which is good. You say it's just in us, but that's only scratching the surface. You cannot have a moral law without a moral law giver. Where does this 'innate morality" come from?
swarmis 9 months ago
@swarmis And this is where we split apart completely. You say we are 'created'. I don't think we are created at all, but are a product of evolution. As such, there's a distinct advantage to a species (especially a social one, like ours) being able to agree that killing each other is wrong, sharing resources with other members if good, stealing is wrong, and so on. No lawgiver needed. And speaking of law: Should everyone follow the laws given in the bible? Should our laws be based on scripture?
Olamv 9 months ago
@Olamv So you seem to enjoy the topic of morality, and you have repeatedly accused me of telling you my way is the right way etc. But really I've only defended what the Bible teaches(not MY way). Hypocritically you are guilty of telling me your way, since your morality is of a personal conviction(with no objective truth source). Do you believe that objective morality exists?(3rd time)
swarmis 9 months ago
@swarmis I'm sorry, what? You've held up the bible as /the/ source, /the/ authority, /the/ unalterable and true word of god himself in this little discussion. You've actually told me it's Divine Truth. And /now/ you try to weasel out of it by saying "Oh, the bible only /teaches/ this, I don't actually /follow/ it."?
I think that in the possible hypocrisy sweepstakes you've got me beat rather handily, don't you?
Olamv 9 months ago
@Olamv Dont twist my text bud. My point was clear, as I stated I'm defending what the Bible teaches, which gives me an objective truth source. Not merely MY own personal opinion. Understanding things in context is important, hopefully this clears that up. I'm not going to keep this discussion going, unless you afford me the same respect I give you, and answer my questions.
swarmis 9 months ago
@swarmis Actually, no, this is important. If you believe that the bible is an objective source of truth, you either follow it, or you don't. I'm not twisting your words one bit: You say the bible is divine, revealed truth (I don't believe that for a second, personally). Then you say that you're only defending what it /teaches/, which more than implies that it's not what you actually /follow/.
Which is it? Because either you sincerely believe in what you're saying, or you don't.
Olamv 9 months ago
@Olamv Please explain to me how it is incompatable to defend a worldview, and actually follow it also. Again my point is that the Biblical worldview has a reference point, an objective foundation that is far superior to my personal opinions on topics pertaining to spirituality, life, morality etc. So it is not merely "my opinion" that I'm relying on since God has given revelation through his written word. You've base this argument on me saying "my way is the only right way" and ....
swarmis 9 months ago
@swarmis As for your question, do I believe in an objective morality? No. I don't. I do, however, /think/ we have an innate moral sense, because no society can survive without rules like "Don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, and treat others like you want to be treated."
I think I know where this question wants to lead me, and before you argue that it's proof of the god of the bible giving us this morality, let me point out that Hinduism came to the same conclusion. Why are they wrong?
Olamv 9 months ago
@Olamv cont.. on 3 different continents, across a time span of about 2 thousand years, and has the common thread of Salvation through Christ woven through from cover to cover. Not only is it completely cohesive, but the historical validity of the prohpetic value surpasses any human understanding. The fact is that it is supernatural, but whether you accpet it as God's word is up to you my friend. Please show me another book that compares... I wont hold my breath.
swarmis 9 months ago
@swarmis Er, no. Of course I can't. Because you've stipulated impossible characteristics to fulfill. Let's review them, shall we? You say I can't point to a book that's
a) consists of 66 books by 40 different authors (this I can do)
b) on 3 different continents (... Yep.)
c) across a time span of about 2 thousand years (Sure)
d) and has the common thread of Salvation through Christ woven through from cover to cover.
That is a lovely little logical fallacy you've built up there. [cont]
Olamv 9 months ago
@swarmis By including that last little paragraph, you've presupposed (again) that your way is the only right way. You don't seem to realize that it doesn't /matter one jot/ to me if it's true or not, because I do not care. I /do/ however, care when you're advocating for coming into my life and telling me how to live it, whether I'm gay or not.
Given the scenario outlined above: Do you think a couple married under the rules I put up, are married, or not? It's a simple yes or no question.
Olamv 9 months ago
@Olamv cont.. It is a reasonable deduction to conclude that John was referring to a distinctly different cleansing than what is mentioned in the synoptic Gospels. Any other challenges, I'm happy to defend but I'll need a chapter and verse.
"What makes the Bible so much more worthy?" It's the word of God. Gnite.
swarmis 9 months ago
@swarmis So, if I'm getting this straight, the bible is more worthy because it's the word of god, yes? And it's the word of god because it says so in the bible? I'm really not trying be annoying about this, but I'm genuinely curious why this should have any weight in a discussion beyond 'it's my personal opinion'. Now, I could go on to list chapter and verse for contradictions up and down, but it'd be a sideline of the issue: You are using your religion to justify a position, (cont)
Olamv 9 months ago
@swarmis (cont) and by doing so, you are opening your religious text to critique. And I'm not the rudest or even most obnoxious individual out here in the world who would do so. Using the holy text of your faith, you are saying, in essence "This is right, and I do not have to give any reason for it". This does not lead to others wanting to take you very seriously.
Would you take a muslim or hindu seriously if they suggested that you weren't, say, married because you didn't follow their faith?
Olamv 9 months ago
@Olamv Lets think objectively, you say since it's recorded in ancient text (that stands the test of historical scrutiny) it is somehow not qualified to be applicable as a Gods word. Ironically you are the one who has the burden of proof because your position is justified by "because I say so". And you avoided my question, does objective morality exist?
I'll give you an opportunity to show me a comparable book. One that's like in that it consists of 66 books by 40 different authors..
swarmis 9 months ago
@swarmis Putting it another way, is a man and a woman who haven't had a church ceremony, but still have the state document proclaiming them married, having taken their vows in public, in front of the capitol (state or federal makes no difference) still married? The law says yes. What do you say? Would you go up to them and proclaim them not married, since they haven't followed the strictures of your faith? What about christians not of your particular denomination?
Olamv 9 months ago
@Olamv Sure they are married, according to the state if it is a legally binding covenant. But that does not mean that it is a Biblical Covenant. The Bible is emphatically clear on the definition of a marriage. But I wouldn't tell them "you're not married because you're not Christian." My parents were'nt Christian when they got married. So there is a difference between a Biblical Covenant, and a Secular State Covenant. Both are marriages, but with different meanings.
swarmis 9 months ago
@swarmis Excellent. Finally a point of agreement. We agree then: Marriage doesn't have to include any god, any religion, and it doesn't have to be about faith at all. The only prerequisite is that there are two consenting adults who love each other.
Now, given this... Would you support "secular state covenants" for homosexuals? And if you /wouldn't/, think carefully about why you wouldn't.
Olamv 9 months ago
The word tells us to "place all things in light of scripture and hold fast to that which is good." Also I dont believe that modern prophets(in a classical Biblical sense) exist, the cannon of scripture is complete, and that's what the Bible teaches. Read the last verse in Revelation. I am constantly faced with situations, suggestions, differing advice etc. And I go directly to the truth source and make sure it's in line with God's will.
swarmis 10 months ago
Laviticus was'nt a person it's a collection of values set out by a smal tribe "Levit" one of the 12 tribes of Isreal - the future of any tribe thousands of years ago depended on the capacity to breed and so they chose to discourage homosexual - Greeks took a different view - not quite sure why christians do as population numbers high.
trevortrevortsr2 10 months ago
@Olamv I owe you an apology, I assumed that you were attempting to justify your own lifestyle. I dont know you, and therefore it was wrong for me to say that. Sorry. Maybe your just defending it from an objective standpoint.
swarmis 10 months ago
@Olamv I'm sure you'll agree that since the Bible doesn't record Jesus condemning pedos, beastiality, polygamy, and many other sexual perversions, those who practice them are not justified. But the real question I have for you is, if you dont believe the Bible is Gods word, why do you attempt to use it to justify your lifestyle?
And for the record, I dont consider homosexuality any worse than fornication. They are both sins in need of repentence and forgiveness through Jesus.
swarmis 10 months ago
@swarmis Oh, I'm not trying to justify anything by using the bible. You, however, are trying to justify yourself with scripture, and I'm wondering why and how you're doing that. I also note you're not answering my question: If someone walks up to you on the street tomorrow and claims that Jesus speaks to them, would you believe them? If you'd believe them, why? If you wouldn't, why not?
Olamv 10 months ago
@Olamv cont... rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness.." So in that sense it was Jesus speaking through the Apostle Paul. Do you believe the Bible is the word of God?
swarmis 10 months ago
@swarmis I'm more curious as to why you'd take Paul's word for him being right, or speaking on Jesus' behalf, considering that he apparently never met him, never spoke to him, and never had any contact with him until well after Jesus was dead? In Second Timothy, what you have is a man whose only authority is that he /claims/ to have Jesus speaking through him. Why would you believe him? If you met someone on the street tomorrow claiming that Jesus speaks through him, would you believe him?
Olamv 10 months ago
@swarmis As it happens, No I don't believe the bible is the word of god. However, I'm assuming, for the sake of argument, that Jesus was, indeed the word made flesh and everything you want to attribute to him. That doesn't in /any way/ make Paul more likely to be right (and Second Timothy is still written by Paul, by the way). If someone came up to you in the street tomorrow and claimed that they were inspired by and spoke for Jesus, would you believe them? If not, why believe Paul?
Olamv 10 months ago
@Olamv At the risk of sounding redundant... As I explained before the Bible is God breathed, cover to cover, and each chapter and verse can be understood in context of the Bible as a whole. The topic of sexuality, and more specifically homosexuality is brought up many times, not just by the Apostle Paul in the NT. I believe that each person used by God to author individual books of the Bible was speaking and writing scripture inspired by God.
swarmis 10 months ago
damn did he really just bust out the AIDS card. havent heard that since the 70s
parkieus 11 months ago
They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy.
ArthasXfrost 11 months ago
@ArthasXfrost I have plenty of mercy, love and understanding and Im an atheist
MamaMario13 10 months ago
@MamaMario13 lol its gonna be kinda hard to explain this to a gay atheist XD
ArthasXfrost 10 months ago
Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
ArthasXfrost 11 months ago
Why do many fundamentalist christian homoloathers like Tony Perkins love adultery and adulterers so much? You don't see them throwing confirmed, admitted, and often repeat adulterers out of office or out of their party.
GINGRICH, LIMBAUGH, VITTER, MC CAIN, CRAIG, PALADINO, GIULIANI, BARR, ENSIGN
seahorse05 1 year ago 17
Tony perkins speaks the truth, someday the homosexuals will run and hide to try to escape their judgement but it will be to late. One more thing for the liar mel white, the bible clearly states that homosexuality is an abomination..
saddlebrook9 1 year ago
@saddlebrook9
you sound like a smart guy ! so who wrote the bible ?
wakniss 1 year ago
@saddlebrook9 You are on the wrong side of history. Christians always have a "group" they have oppressed or vilified and justified it with bible quotes: Jews, blacks, women, athiests, scientists, gypsies, gays, etc. And after years of treachery against an entire group of people, you always end up looking like fools. What would you guys do with your time if you didnt have an entire group to hate?
hotmarriedgays 11 months ago
"god" is in control??? are you fucking serious?............ Tony perkins is a total fucking asshole
richstpete 1 year ago
Thank you for standing for your Biblical Values Tony! God's view of homosexuality is crystal clear in the old and new testament.
swamislocal1 1 year ago
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@swamislocal1 You really do not know what you are talking about do you?
peter70chgo 1 year ago
@swamislocal1 After all, as Jesus said about gay people: " ".
Traitorfish 1 year ago
@Traitorfish It's clear that God's design for sexuality is one man and one woman in a marriage relationship. This go's back to Adam and Eve. The fact that Jesus doesn't mention homosexuals doesn't mean he condone's it, he also doesn't mention pedophilia, and beastiality. Do you think he's impartial to those sexual lifestyle's? He does mention the ideal design, which is one man and one woman. He loves you just as much as me, but he want's both of us to repent and be set free from sin.
swamislocal1 1 year ago
@swamislocal1 could you please quote what jesus said about homosexuals? I know where it is in the old testament, its between the law about not eating shellfish, and the law about stoning women who commit adultery...a few pages from where a sea opens in two to let people walk through (but yet god didnt prevent 9/11 from happening...how does he choose his miracles anyway?)
hotmarriedgays 11 months ago
@hotmarriedgays Since you have rejected the Bible as a source of truth, why do you want me to quote Jesus?
Mark 10;6-9 "But from the begining of creation, God made them MALE and FEMALE. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother, and the two shall become one flesh. What therefore God has brought together, let no man separate." Also read Romans ch.1. The attempt to reconcile homosexuality and God's blessing on a relationship is impossible according to scripture. Repent my friend.
swamislocal1 11 months ago
@swamislocal1 That passage in the bible, begining with Mark 10 verse 2 is about DIVORCE, not homosexuality. You don't even read the bible. And Jesus said NOTHING about homosexuality, thats why you cant find any verses. Also...you fail to explain why Christians cherry pick from Leviticus, choosing only to defend certain laws, but not the ones that are clearly dated and ridiculous (i.e. about eating shellfish). Why do you get to decide what parts are still valid?
hotmarriedgays 11 months ago
@hotmarriedgays Yes, he's talkin about marriage and divorce. And he clearly states God's ideal design for marriage, which is why I quoted it. Jesus isn't recorded in the New Testament for condeming homosexuality, but he is the Yahweh of the Old Testament also, so I dont expect him to reiterate a point that is crystal clear. He also didn't condemn pedo's or beastiality, but it would be foolish to assume those pervs get a hall pass. Beside Leviticus and the OT, what do you think about Rom;1?
swamislocal1 11 months ago
@swamislocal1 The bottom line is you justify discrimination and persecution of gays based on a few verses in the OT. At some point explain why you follow some laws of the bible, but ignore hundreds of others that are clearly obsolete. No one had ever given a satisfactory answer to this. Very few Christians have actually read the bible, and they simply know the verses that support whatever prejudicial warpath they happen to be on at the moment. This is the central hypocrisy of Christianity.
hotmarriedgays 11 months ago
@hotmarriedgays Why do you keep pointing me back to the O.T, I'm quoting New Testament, and I'm not anti gay, I'm anti sin. This includes fornication which I'll call out to my Christian brothers on in a heartbeat. If you dont claim the name of Jesus as your savior, than I have no business trying to rebuke you and I appoligize. If you do, I'd like to help you see what the word says. So back to Romans ch1;24-28 and 1corinthiansch6;9-10.
swamislocal1 11 months ago
@swamislocal1 yeah I agree that if u want to be a part of the church you must obey the laws including leviticus 18:22
MamaMario13 10 months ago
@swamislocal1 Question: Who actually wrote the letters to the Romans and the Corinthians? Because I'm reasonably sure it wasn't Jesus.
Olamv 10 months ago
@Olamv Your correct, it wasn't the incarnate son of God(Jesus), however the Bible teaches that Jesus is the Yahweh referred to throughout the whole Bible, and in John;1 it says "in the begining was the word, the word was God and the word was with God........ the word became flesh" This is referring to the incarnation of the Messiah(Jesus), therefore Jesus is the living word of God. This concept is also brought up in 2Tim3;16"All scripture is God breathed and is usefull for teaching, rebuking..
swarmis 10 months ago
@Olamv If you reject the authority of scripture, and you're not "trying to justify anything using the Bible", why do you care who wrote the letter to the Romans or Corinthians?
swarmis 10 months ago
@swarmis Again, I care because /you/ sir/ma'am are trying to justify yourself using scripture. If you're going to do that, I'm going to ask /why/. What makes the bible so much more "worthy" of consideration that you can dismiss every other person's opinion out of hand Especially when Genesis manages to contradict itself twice. Also. When Jesus drove the moneylenders from the temples, did he do it a week before he died (Mark 11:15) or at the beginning of his three year ministry (John 2:13)?
Olamv 9 months ago
@Olamv There are two possible answers to this question. 1. The Gospel was written thematically and not chronologically. 2. He cleansed the temple twice. I tend to agree with the 2nd option especially since the details given in John's account are completely different than Matt, Mark, Luke. In John 2;20 the Jews refer to the temple rebuilding having begun 46 years earlier. This would date the cleasing to about AD 27 or 28. But Jesus was almost certainly not crucified until AD30. cont....
swarmis 9 months ago
@swamislocal1 Im not a christian
MamaMario13 6 months ago
@swamislocal1 methinks gays should just leave the church, and Im saying this as a heterosexual baptist
MamaMario13 10 months ago
What if Jesus asks Tony Perkins to have sex with him? Will he refuse?
gupsphoo 1 year ago
"We love you, but we hate you. We love you, but we don't want you to have rights."
It's so true. Christians need to stop saying "we love gay people, but they are just against gay marriage" or "we love gay people, we just don't want them in the military" or "we love gay people, we just want to give them the option of being straight" or "we love gay people, but they are going to Hell."
If you love them, you don't constantly fight to repress them and hurt them. If you love them, there is no "but"
prokrastinatorSF 1 year ago
i'd love to know what drives the hate in tony perkins. exactly why does he carry on such a crusade against gay people. exactly what is wrong with him!
wntoply6 1 year ago
Tony Perkins is artificial and so transparent. Just another christian brainwashed by that dam book.
Tony Perkins needs to sit down with about ten effeminate gay people at a dinner table and if he has two eyes to see and a mind that thinks he just might begin to see gay people are real.
I can't wait to see Perkins and James Dobson lose the war they wage against gay people.
Gayfreewill 1 year ago
Religion definitely is a thread to the United States of America, jummm ... i don't know why, but i kinda feel USA is on the road to join their fundamentalist fellas in middle east, fuck the land of the free, 'cause it isn't anymore, not since there is religion involved in politics ...
sentboy2490 1 year ago
Jesus Here, Jesus There, Jesus please fuck me, Jesus please make me rich, As i love jesus i discriminate, As i love holy jesus christ i kill others, As im a fucking religious fundamentalist brain washed citizen i have the right to hate others, As i am jesus personified i can ask others to change, as i read the bible i can ... as i love jesus ...
SIMPLY FUCK JESUS, AND ANY OTHER PHYCOPATHIC FICTIONAL RELIGIOUS CHARACTER ... WHY POLITICIANS CARE ABOUT FUCKKKKING RELIGION ?????
sentboy2490 1 year ago
Tony Perkins is a disgusting human being, as are all of the other hatemongers who make millions vilifying innocent people.
oaklandj 1 year ago
Christianity is in decline because radical idiots think its cool to use the bible as a wepon to push their own agender - looks like they are more a threat to USA than any islam jehad - Jesus was not homophobic so why are they ?
trevortrevortsr2 1 year ago 25
@trevortrevortsr2
Homosexual activists use their deviant lifestyle as a political and social weapon to feel better about themselves at ANY cost.
ma7799 10 months ago
@ma7799 Double whammy you managed to get "deviant" and "need to feel better about themselves" in one sentence -with an attitude like that we not suprised homosexuals seem activist to you - Some people are attracted to the same gender - they never asked to be - its just how it is - some get really miffed when faced with predudice however they are not burning Korans or picketing soldiers funerals. Is it so radical to you that a same sex loving couple should want to get married or adopt ?
trevortrevortsr2 10 months ago
@trevortrevortsr2 Amusingly, last year my own country gave homosexual couples full and equal rights to marry, adopt, and so on and so forth. And society is still ticking along nicely. Children still go to school. People still go to work. Taxes are still getting paid. The economy hasn't collapsed. There are no orgies in the streets. "The Gay" hasn't spread like a plague. In fact, everything continues much as it did before, except now more people get to enjoy certain basic human rights.
Olamv 10 months ago
@Olamv In Norway gays have been getting married since the 80's - its really quite rediculous to accuse gays of being hedonistic then try and withold the establishments that encourage security and fidelity.
trevortrevortsr2 10 months ago
@trevortrevortsr2 Well, yes and no. They've been able to enter into civil unions for quite some time (and, yes, society didn't suffer any then, either). In the session of 2008, however, parliament finally made civil unions a thing of the past by altering the laws regarding marriage, something not easily done. The law took effect on the 1st of January 2009. Now there's only marriage, with the same rights and obligations, whether for straight or gay couples. I apologise for the earlier error.
Olamv 10 months ago
@Olamv We have civil unions in UK but most just call them marriage - all 3 main political parties have said that they will table motions to make cival unions marriage - its really only the church that are baulking and they are begining to realise that are out of touch with society - people are just sick of descrimination and that whole glass half empty approach.
trevortrevortsr2 10 months ago
@trevortrevortsr2 I can only say good luck to the UK, and (if you'll pardon the expression) godspeed. Time marches on, and with luck, in some twenty years we'll look back and wonder why it was ever an issue, shaking our heads at the how silly people were "back then". The day the UK passes an amended marriage law, I will have a celebratory drink, just as I did when we passed ours, and as I did for Spain, Sweden, Portugal, and every state in the US.
Olamv 10 months ago
"Who will God punish more; Me for loving, or you for hating?"
I don't remember who said it, but it is true. If you think that God wants people to hate each other and oppress all those that disagree with what they *think* the bible means, then I honestly feel sorry for you.
AvalonDraconis 1 year ago
facebook(DOT)com/pages/Only-matter-of-time-before-Tony-Perkins-secret-boyfriend-comes-forward/137574502959522
Only a matter of time!
NO ONE devotes so much of their life to opposing gay rights, unless they have issues with their own sexuality. No one.
ImmortalSynn 1 year ago
I wish I could punch Tony Perkins in the face.
tekbarrier 1 year ago
can't wait for the day someone catches Perkins at a cruising spot with his pants on his ankles
spoenk 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@saynotodarwin That doesn't even make any sense.
Poochalot 1 year ago
We're lead to believe that God created the torso, head, arms, and legs and it was the Devil that slapped on the genitals. Screw all of you who think gays are in any way less.
conneraa 1 year ago 3
Rev. White's little god Satan is the author of gay behavior. The real God created heterosexual people and gave them a free will. With that free will, they chose to obey God and his commandments or act on their own sexual inpulses with Satan wispering in their ears, "what I'm doing sexually with another man is ok". Rev. White is decieved about his actions and what Jesus teaches. Jesus is the ultimate author of all the Bible because He is God. This includes all the scriptures gays want to ignore
spooderdoggy 1 year ago
@spooderdoggy I'm not gay but I ignore all the "scriptures" as it's all mythological horseshit. Gays are treated horribly by society, and it's usually Bible thumping homophobes that are the cruelest to gays. Next time you talk to your god tell her that I would love to stick my tongue up her pussy, then I can show her what it feel like to be pleasured by a member of the same sex. Unless of course the whole "god" thing is a load of mythological horseshit made up by people.
Poochalot 1 year ago
@Poochalot You will get your opportunity to see the reality of God...guarranteed.
spooderdoggy 1 year ago
@spooderdoggy Nice spelling, the only thing that's guaranteed is death and taxes. There's no proof that your god exists.
Poochalot 1 year ago
@saynotodarwin You're just a troll looking for a fight, you're not even a real Bible Thumper so don't bother me.
Poochalot 1 year ago
BOOM!! GAY PWNED!!!
newdimensionfilms 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
separation of church & state!
fauxindigo 1 year ago
we love you, but we hate you.... he's right and Tony still denies it.
queerasfolk0606 1 year ago
Tony Perkins is a very evil man, he is constantly trying to incite a hate roit to attack members of the gay community. He babbles about his god and in doing so he pushes hate, this needs to stop. Hate is a destructive force that only destroys everything it touches, it will even destroy him in the end. Enough is enough with the homophobic hatred coming from people like Perkins. Homosexuality is a natural part of the world we live in and nothing he does is going to change the natural world.
Poochalot 1 year ago
Mel White is an enemy of the gospel, and lying to the public.
fundreamer1 1 year ago
Fundreamer1, Mel White speaks for God.
GodCreatesGays2 1 year ago
@GodCreatesGays2 Umm...... No, he doesn't. I stand by my previous remark.
fundreamer1 1 year ago
Fundreamer1, how sad that you believe the Lord, creator of all things in heaven and earth, is so incompetent that He doesn't know what He's doing, when he creates His children the way he wants them.
GodCreatesGays2 1 year ago
@GodCreatesGays2 I never said that, you just did.
fundreamer1 1 year ago
Comment removed
kwil46 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@GodCreatesGays2 ANSWER these questions : 1)Where did you get info on God,heaven and hell? 2)What is your gods name? 3)Explain salvation & where you learned of it.
4)How do you know of any of the teachings of Jesus? 5)From where do you derive your moral code?
OR ADMIT YOU ARE too AFRAID to answer, too WEAK to be honest , or too STUPID to know the difference.
YOU are the gift that keeps on giving by continually exposing your own hypocrisy and ignorance
kwil46 1 year ago
I have to wonder how much TP is motivated by genuine concern while helping to build that shelter in Honduras and how much he is motivated by the desire to indoctrinate uneducated people and to validate his beliefs........
richwfd2002 1 year ago
What a fucking liar, TP; also stands for tiolet paper....
richwfd2002 1 year ago
Rick Warren is a lying sack of poo. Ditto for Tony Perkins.
Pilgrim812 1 year ago
I have been wrong about so many issues..and I Thank God for opening my eyes and heart to see the truth on this subject of 'Gay' as well as others..
I'm so grateful to know the truth finally...Bless you Mel White for your work in this!!
tweeters54 1 year ago
why are ppl so hung up on what they think Jesus or God DON'T LIKE? all people that have faith agree on the fact that God and Jesus LIKE love, tolerance, sharing, caring. focus on that!
kaguesna 1 year ago
@kaguesna God also LIKES heterosexual relationships. He LIKES people that hate homosexuals. focus on that.
FuckUtube2008 1 year ago
Fuck christianity- I don't believe in those fairy tales and I shouldn't have my rights taken away because they say so.
sisko197 1 year ago
Tony Perkins is probably going to be found blowing a homeless person in a public bathroom some time soon (like nearly ALL of the public Christian homophobes).
auntiesanity 1 year ago 10
I don't see how you can be a Christian and say that a man putting his penis in another man's rectum is not a sin...
GOPguy826 1 year ago
@GOPguy826
If you're going to be so literal in your depiction of homosexuality, then it's indeed easy to be a Christian and say that a man putting his penis in another man's rectum is not a sin: the Bible doesn't say anything about penises in rectums.
originalsin19 1 year ago
@originalsin19
anyone who says the bible doesn't talk about homosexuality is either being willfully ignorant, has no reading comprehension, or just hasn't read the bible. Jesus affirms the marriage model between man and woman, and Moses and St. Paul condemn it in explicit fashion, especially in Romans chapter 1 and Leviticus 18. "Reverend" Mel white should at least stop lying and playing to victim card.
CreedChrist 1 year ago
@GOPguy826 How do you actually KNOW that?? You don't..and it's like that's ALL they do!! I used to be like you and after having my eyes opened by God to embrace these people rather than slam them, comments like yours is simply offensive as well as reveals what a dirty mind YOU have.
tweeters54 1 year ago
@GOPguy826 Hey, at least you're not hiding behind the buy bull in expressing your opinion. According to the buybull, eating certain types of seafood is a sin and unruly children should be put to death. This is all right along side the "men who lie with men is an abomination" directive. I guess we should ban seafood and start killing brats.......
richwfd2002 1 year ago
@GOPguy826
The same way you can be Christian and say that a woman appearing before a priest while she's on her cycle, isn't a sin.... when the same book (Leviticus) and the same chapter (20) says quite specifically that it is.
Ditto for eating pork, shellfish, or wearing polyester.
ImmortalSynn 1 year ago
Tony Perkins is one of the last vestiges of America's past, I hope that there will still be people like him to last into a time when all that is normal is being warped into irreversable directions. Go Team Tony!
EasternMerchant 1 year ago
@EasternMerchant
Hate to break this to you... but you basically just described the Klan with that statement as well. lol
ImmortalSynn 1 year ago
Whoa, I didn't realize that Christians literally shaped the world. Literally.
ouch2112 1 year ago
When will the Family Research Council realize that most Christians aren't a**holes?
ouch2112 1 year ago
@ouch2112
A better question is "when will the Family Research Council" start putting a lot more effort into addressing the things that TRULY split families apart, like divorce, infidelity, financial strife, infertility, etc.
ImmortalSynn 1 year ago
@ImmortalSynn That's a good point. I think most Christians even if they believe homosexuality is a sin (which many don't!) don't put it above other sin and aren't completely fixated on it like the FRC is. I think (hope) that Perkins and his crew will eventually succeed in alienating their base of faithful, compassionate Christians, so that those individuals can put effort into something that will actually do some good in the world.
ouch2112 1 year ago
tony perkins... its a damn shame there isnt a hell for him to rot in.
jbond5150 1 year ago 10