Haha, correctly! Salafis/Wahhabis/ Iranian Shi3a have invented the modern Hijaab as a false pride (Bidah) by deliberately misinterpreting hadith for their own agenda or to keep their own wifes as slaves. The old Hijaazi style clothing has only been preserved by tribes such as the Banu Rashaayda (Rashaida) who were forced to leave the Hijaaz in the 18th century. They now live in Eastern Sudan and Eritrea. They all show a lot of hair and actually comb it out from underneath the scarf.Salafism=hell
@intezam Thank you, and thank you for the invite. I'm merely presenting an observation here, and I would be horrified to see anybody suffer for their choices, whether I agree with them or not. The notion of "hell" is incompatible with compassion or mercy in my opinion, even if it is true, of course, that some people are so unreasonably demanding of themselves that they turn their lives - and sometimes those of others - into a "living hell".
Definitely agree with this video. In the past I was conservative and thought things had to be a certain way, but as time went on I gained a greater understanding.
you have no idea what your talking about...i love my hijab ... i livein the west.....better to dress like amodest woman than to walk around looking like a whore for hire...
. If He says that the worst sin is disbelief/joining others in worship of Allah and that will NEVER have a chance of forgiveness. Then I say "I hear and I obey to Allah". It's simple. I hope you take heed, if not that will only be at your own detriment
@ rozeboosje It's sound abit funny how you know that Allah does not exist. Could you elaborate on that? Yet again a clever chap like you could look at all of the signs around the world and even in yourself to know that there needed someone to create complex organisms like you and me.
@littlemissnas You don't believe in "someone" or "something". You believe in Allah. Allah is the clear result of millennia of human manipulation of ancient Judaeic mythological concepts. The concept of "Allah" therefore cleartly bears no relation to reality and I am absolutely certain that Allah does not exist. As you were.
@rozeboosje lol, Allah is my Lord and yours. I don't know whether to laugh at you or to feel sorry for you for being absolutely certain that Allah does not exist. Look at the present times and look at the signs. If you deny it and reply with a sentence that does not even tell why on earth you are certain, that there is not a god. Then I would just say that that mentality is just arrogant(to submit yourself to a God) and ignorant.
@littlemissnas You do not believe in Vishnu. You do not believe in the Grand Wazoo. You believe in an entity to which you refer with the word "Allah". That entity is described in your holy book. You don't believe in any thing less qualified than that. The entity in question does not exist. Stop beating about the bush and address my other comment too while you're at it.
@rozeboosje I do not believe in Vishnu(false god/idol), and if you are refering to God by using the slang terminolgy of Grand wazoo well then Yes I believe in God. Slightly funny that you speak about Islam in the video as if you know it. But then do not know the meaning of Allah. To but it simply in means God in Arabic. I have no idea how I am beating around the bush, as I have responded to all of your comments unless I unintentionally missed one.
@rozeboosje If thats what you think then thats fair enough. It is simple. Allah is then one and the only god WORTHY of worship. He is the most merciful yet again the one who is swift in punishment. If you die in a state of disbelief unfortunately (to your own detriment), you will taste the punishment. Islam means the submission to God. What Allah has revealed to us in the Qur'an and through his Messengers is the truth, and Allah never leaves a promise.
@littlemissnas No need to go as deep as that. I don't respond to quotes of scripture. You quote scripture at me? I'll quote meaningless nonsense from another random book at you.
@rozeboosje The reason as to why i quoted that specific verse was that I thought I'd answer your question. "And to hell with the rest of humanity? :-)"... I guess I did over analyse the Dr.seuss thing. And how comes you do not respond to quotes of scripture?
@littlemissnas So let's cut the Scripture, and get to the point. I will never submit to your religion. I know that Allah does not exist and I will never be a muslim. I will not discuss this and I am not interested.
Given that information, you can now answer the following question with a simple yes or no: will I face eternal punishment? No need to elaborate on your answer with Scripture that to me sounds like someone spouting random syllables.
@rozeboosje Well considering I thought, a clever chap like you would understand my answer from the scripture. I'm not going to shy away from the truth. If you die upon disbelief of Allah and His Messenger (pbuh). Paradise is forbidden for you and yes, Hellfire will be your eternal abode. May Allah protect all of the muslims from that.
@littlemissnas I see. And you know with absolute certainty what Allah's judgement will be? Do you think Allah's judgement must be submissive to Scripture? You are able to judge on Allah's behalf?
Also another point is: The Hijab is meant to show that we are muslimahs. I would want to show everyone that I am a muslimah, at least that is also a way of identifying another muslim. Just like the men have beards, trousers above their ankles. If I was outside getting abused, and I was wearing a hijab and another muslim brother was also on the road, I would feel secure going to him rather than a non muslim. Because in Islam we are all together and stick together.
@rozeboosje "Surely, they have disbelieved who say: " Allah is the Messiah(jesus), son of Maryam (mary)." But the Messiah said "O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Verily, whosoever sets up partners in worship with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise for him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the Zalimun(polytheists and wrongdoers) there are no helpers. (5:72)
To be honest, the end of your video does not make any sense. As muslims we all try to do what is according to the Qur'an and the sunnah. These two are the basis in where we gain our knowledge from. Therefore if we look at the wives of the Messenger of Allah(pbuh) we see that they wore the hijab/niqab. And thus we as muslimahs try to imitiate them.
Wait, what's wrong with showing the world you are muslim? That is NOT anti-islamic. Many verses in the quran state you must not hide your religious beliefs for that would make you a hypocrite.
@haveyouseenmypikachu who said anything about hiding it? I'm saying you wouldn't walk around with a flashing Neon sign and a big arrow pointing at you going "Muslim". There is a difference between showing the world what you are and being exhibitionistic about it. The latter is hardly "modest".
No, muslim women don't wear the hijab in PRIDE. They wear it declaring their modesty. Their intentions are not of that. (if it were, then it would be anti-islamic)
Its ALL about intentions:
verse 2:225 God will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts; and He is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing.
@haveyouseenmypikachu I don't care about your verses. An advertisement is an advertisement, and with modesty it has nothing to do. In order to dress modestly you do not need to dress like an Arab or like a fish out of water. If you don't agree, tell it to the Muslimahs who agreed with my assessment.
@squeamishsquirrel Thank you. It's very difficult to talk about an observation like this and not come across as "confrontational". I'm glad I'm understood the way it was intended. Thanks for your comment!
I have to ask - what would you say about a 'nun's' attire?
and who does that impact upon your views on hijab's?
I understand your angle and even quite plainly see the connection to the Islamic teachings of modesty in the qur'an, but I fail to see how that is important in the western, free world
The fact is, who cares what you wear - who has the right to tell someone they are not allowed, or to place a stigma, upon attire in a free country?
In Australia when I was growing up (in the 70's) our Federal law was that someone could dress in drag but they had to wear their genders underwear underneath the outfit.
They banned underwear from being worn by the other gender (this went both ways).
This led to strip searches on the side of the road and an amazing display of inhumanity by our police.
So no - Banning things makes the matter worse and provokes similar oppressive actions of enforce that law, like compounding a lie!
Absolutely. And I trust you saw my video "Burqagain". Banning is *never* the answer.
BTW - I have absolutely no problem with anybody being a pedofile and expressing their opinion that it's OK to be a pedofile. But the moment they touch a kid or so much as start making moves toward approaching one, they're going to jail. And hopefully for a LONG time.
Your 'BTW' just cost me a ciggarette - it literally was pneumatically propelled into my coffee when I read that - oh yeah you owe me a coffee as well HAHAHAHAHA
yes that's true for the beginning but in time when more muslimahs dress this way it will become normal and accepted. theres always difficulty at the beginning but it's up to those who struggle and strive to make changes to stick to it to make progress
It's not so much a question of "conforming", it's more about checking what the "natives" do if they want to remain inconspicuous, and adopting that to maximise your "modesty" rather than adopting an alien style that makes you stand out like a sore thumb, and that basically screams "LOOK AT HOW MODEST I AM".
There was an interesting study on TV a while back about 'sin', and it dealt with the same paradox. Pride is apparently a Deadly Sin, but anyone familiar with fundamentalist religious people will see the enormous amount of effort that goes into being seen as 'humble' - to the point where it gets competetive. Humility becomes a sourse of egotism, just as 'modesty' can become a sort of exhibitionism.
rozeboosje thank you for fighting and questioning something that is in so many western countries "untouchable". People don't want to condone the hijab (and be anti-woman) nor deride it (and be anti-muslim) the stance that you have taken is very hard to maintain in the face of all the "trolls" and "red herrings" but you are doing an admirable job, and I agree with you 100% in every point you have made about the garment, in all your videos. you are a champion of reason and rationality.
Islam needs to be something that can be talked about. Just like anything else. And rather than treating all Muslims like they are The Enemy it's much more constructive in my opinion to try and approach things in a manner that encourages the moderates.
th only problem with that is that in my experience the moderates in any religion act as a base for making the radicals more legitimate, in their own minds, and the minds of others.
That's possible, yes, but the converse is also possible, that moderation leaves ajar the door to real change. See the decline of the influence of the Catholic church. It may take a long time, and the process is far from complete, but it happened.
You see, that's commonsense applied to religion. Just like some of the suras where the prophet calls for tolerance and forebearance get ignored, so is common sense in every other aspect. Reasonable and righteous muslims are being drowned out by fanatical and rabid men (and, sadly, some women) in the Muslim world. I find the comparison of religion to a psychology test, a roscharch test of the soul, a useful one.
Hijab practices vary widely in the Muslim world. As you say, it's more a set of basic parameters than any particular attempt at executing something conformable to them.
The face covering (niqab), if I understand correctly, is technically an "optional" pious exercise.
IOW. "wearing the drapes" with a little slit to see through would be "hijab" - but so would simply wearing loose fitting clothing and keeping the hair covered.
It's obvious WHICH of the two, in our society, is less ostentatious.
Exactly, and I think that therefore the latter would actually be more in line with the spirit of what "Hijab" was meant to mean. I've since found out that there are plenty of Muslimahs who agree with that interpretation.
A nice act of sabotage would be to introduce a new fashion: A hijab made from a transparent material. Held readily in stock for those women in the western world forced by their social background to wear the hijab, but who still want to rebell - a bit.
... You cannot make a velvet glove outta a sows ear... A pig in a poke is still a pig in a poke... Lay down with a sow you get sloppy... I wonder do they use scalding water to get the hair off on their honeymoon.. Yes I am feeling mean this morning, No reason just do... :(
True, Rosebush, but isn't this like telling a Christian that being anti-homosexual is really anti-Christ if you go by his supposed teachings of loving the least among us, etc? It may well be the case, but they aren't listening, are they?
Actually, I agree with that as well. I'm just playing "devil's" advocate! Also known as "being a dick".
:D
Seriously, yeah, that's always my position - as hopeless as it feels some times. You toss these things out there and just hope to get people thinking a little bit.
i think its important to differentiate between the headscarf, which doesnt cover the face, and things like the hijab that completely cover the face and make the person unrecognizable.
one obvious reason to differentiate is that most arguments used to criticize a muslim dress where the face shows applies to catholic nuns as well.
There is no such thing as "the" hijab, although it is very commonly used to mean the head covering. Most of the time it does NOT cover the whole of the face.
My criticism here is not targeted at "the" hijab, just at the idea that Hijab should mean a traditional, highly recognisable garment that clearly labels the wearer as being a muslimah. In my opinion, such blatant advertising of one's religious affiliation is in contradiction with the requirement for "modesty" that is often (more)
presented as a rationale for adopting such traditional garments. My argument is that if one wished to dress in accordance with the guidelines, a muslim woman in the western world should adopt drab, non-descript, inconspicuous WESTERN style dress that allows for following the guidelines re. what should be covered and so on.
What I address here is the hypocrisy between on the one hand making the claim that one adopts a traditional style Hijab (more)
for reasons of "modesty" whilst simultaneously exhibiting pride by wearing what in our culture are clearly items of clothing that will make you stand out in a crowd. That is not "modesty" in any way, shape or form.
The reason I don't extend my arguments to, for example, nuns is simply because nuns do not try to make us believe that they are dressing the way they do out of "modesty" but they clearly know that it's a "uniform" that makes them highly recognisable for what they are.
If a Muslimah tells me that she wears the Hijab because she is proud to be a Muslimah and she wants the world to know, then that's perfectly fine with me. But she can't then expect me to subsequently swallow the "modesty" claim.
In Tunisia, the 'traditional' or 'islamic' headgard for women is actually quite nice. It allows her hair to flow freely, is multicoloured, and doesn't hide her face at all. Tunisian women like to be women, and that can (for at least some women) mean wanting to look 'pretty' and feminine. They also like jewelry, makeup and perfume, even if they are quite conservative in the way they live.
Hindu women can also bridge the apparent gap between wanting to be 'sexy' and yet still be conservative.
It makes them stand out indeed.. However the most negative effect it has for Islam is being a symbol of oppression of women in the eyes of many westerners
Yeah but in fairness why should they care about what symbolism WE have attacked to THEIR clothing? But figuratively going about shouting "look at how modest I am" is hypocrisy no matter how you dress it up. And it's fair to point that out.
I didn't say they had to care about it, I'm just pointing out that the "protective garment" is slightly counterproductive in the west as far as protecting Islam's reputation goes. And yeah, there's nothing modest about bragging about being modest :)
A part of mankind that is a threat to the rest of us. Christians I can get along with, Jews are alright. Buddhist have some awesome fucking food. Islam is absolute fucking dirt.
Aside from the fact that the majority of any group of people are decent folks, and also that even being an asshole does not mean one deserves to be killed, there is also the small percentage of Zakir Naiks and (here) Sami Zaataris who provide much needed comical relief.
So you want to kill all Muslims?... you want to kill a little over 1/6 of the current humans alive?
From one Atheist to another, please think before you write... well then again you did warn people of what you are with "Ahole" being part of your name.
Yes I am an ahole. I don't believe that ppl should die according to their faith. Just that ppl whose faiths tell them to kill others and feel good about it.
This shit is getting too old. Not enough room for this retardation of religion on our planet. You can be peaceful. I understand your ways but I can no longer follow that method. Fuck them.
A Muslim woman once, on one of my videos, tried to argue with another woman that the hijab is important because no woman can guarantee that the men around her are not having sexual thoughts when they look at her.
I noticed the head dress differed in other parts of Asia like Malaysia and Singapore. I am and was ignorant of symbolism associated with faction if any. I noticed the minor and major aesthetic differences and assumed it was due to cultural influence.
Oh, taano71 have a sub. Hopefully I don't regret it.
I'm pretty sure that there are simple "fashion" differences from one place to the next, especially if the major differences are merely stylistic rather than what is actually covered. But there are also differences in interpretation of the rules as you can tell from the difference between, say, a small head scarf v. a burqah.
you got a point. But I don't think it really matters. Reason being that beyond the religious parts of it, its also a cultural thing. Its just always been done. Kinda like how girls shave their legs(i mean theres no real need to, is there? Other than fashion) I say let people dress how ever they please, as long as how they please is decent by local laws
Of course, but there is no harm in pointing out that doing the equivalent of shouting off the roof tops how "modest" you are is (or could be seen as) a tad hypocritical...
I also accept, of course, that many women following Hijab in western countries have never thought about that and they're just doing what they're used to. But this is specifically aimed at those who wear it out of pride for being a Muslimah.
I'm not even sure that a real person on whom the "Jesus" myth was built ever existed. I think it's more likely that a fictitious person was constructed around the aggregate of ideas we now associate with "Jesus". If he DID, though, I'm sure that a modern day "Christian" who had been transported into his time would not recognise him if he bumped into him in the street. As far as "a god" is concerned, what is a "god"?
I don't think you'll ever find a nun who'd seriously try to tell you that their uniform is NOT intended to separate them from all the other folks in the street.
Roze. i like you vid alwyz but It astounds me how critical non-muslims are concerning hijab. They pretend that they are not aware of the commandment to wear hijab does not occur in their own scriptures. For example, in corinthians there is a very clear injunction to wear
good points, Pino. I'd like to throw in a view about women demanding the right to keep their face covered in the name of their religion. First of all they are being very selective about the conservative aspects of that school of Islam. Since that very same strain says that women should not be in public without an escort of either their husband or a close male relative. They seem to forget that part conveniently. It just tells me it's more about making a ruckus than following their religion.
The only thing I can honestly remember on this topic in the Quran is - a woman should wear a shawl that covers her breasts to show she is not seeking attention.
I don't know, I'm not that well versed in what religions tell their followers to wear. I had to look up Hijab before I made this and I know there are different interpretations of THAT, too.
I used to be a Christian zealot. Some protestant sects believe that long hair is the same as having covering. Head coverings are still popular in Catholicism and Judaism.
I am going to disagree with you Pino, for a number of reason.
1. The rules are clear on the Hijab, how women goes about it would be different from the cultural background. Some cover the head fully, other don't but all of them wear the Hijab when they are praying. So it is not anti-Islamic.
2. The Jews, the Christians, Hindu, Sikhs, Buddhist all draw attention in the West with their clothing. You wouldn't know who the Dalai Lama was if he didn't wear those clothes, same for others.
1. The rules are not so clear that it prevents Muslims from bickering about it amongst themselves and to interpret them differently in different parts of the world, so that argument doesn't hold.
2. Unless a Jew or a Christian or a Buddhist CHOOSES to advertise their religion by wearing either religious symbols or a uniform, I defy you to identify one of those on sight. If you saw me in the street and you didn't know me, would you know straight off that I'm an Atheist?
Interesting angle, though I think that your drawing of a line between modesty and being inconspicuous is a bit off the mark. A Muslims idea of modesty would include not resembling the perverted kuffar in any respect. Not drawing attention doesn't enter into the equation, and a visible statement of "we are not like you" is in line with the cultural supremacism inherent in Islam.
I'm sure that that is what it has become to more fanatical muslims, but I think that moderates may think otherwise. I've seen plenty of muslim women who feel quite strongly that they are Muslimah, but who do not feel the need to advertise their religion all over themselves. Fanatics, of course, will disagree. But fuck them.
LOL...I'm sorry Pino, that is an interesting perspective, but I cannot lose the image of a muslim woman explaining to her husband that she was on the beach in Rio, and so chose the thong bikini so as to not call attention to herself. I understand where your coming from, I just don't think muslim men will be persuaded by this. Personally, I think of the hijab as the same as the burqa, with the degree being the only real difference.
No, that's not what I meant. A thong clearly cannot be Hijab as it clearly doesn't cover that which should be covered. But you only need to look at western women around you to see that some cover just as much of their bodies as Muslimahs do, whether it is out of shyness, or modesty, or whatever other reason. That clothing can easily be adopted as Hijab.
The funny thing is that I would think that the jeans, the heels and the shirts would be more "Hijab" than the actual head scarf would be. Those garments would make the woman blend into the crowd, not drawing undue attention to herself. Here in the west, at least. Change the scarf to a bog-standard western type scarf of any description, and suddenly she complies with ALL requirements.
I disagree with you here, because I think the modesty thing is not a "not standing out"clause, but rather a standard of covering up. Standing out as muslima is no barrier for that.
Yes, it's a standard of covering up, but the reason for it is to encourage modesty. Lady Gaga is occasionally completely covered up to the point where you cannot distinguish any identifiable bodily features. But she is clearly covering herself with outrageous garments designed to draw attention to herself. She isn't "immodest" because of any improper revelation of body parts (on those occasions, anyhow) but because of what her garments are designed to achieve.
Haha, correctly! Salafis/Wahhabis/ Iranian Shi3a have invented the modern Hijaab as a false pride (Bidah) by deliberately misinterpreting hadith for their own agenda or to keep their own wifes as slaves. The old Hijaazi style clothing has only been preserved by tribes such as the Banu Rashaayda (Rashaida) who were forced to leave the Hijaaz in the 18th century. They now live in Eastern Sudan and Eritrea. They all show a lot of hair and actually comb it out from underneath the scarf.Salafism=hell
intezam 9 months ago
@intezam Thank you, and thank you for the invite. I'm merely presenting an observation here, and I would be horrified to see anybody suffer for their choices, whether I agree with them or not. The notion of "hell" is incompatible with compassion or mercy in my opinion, even if it is true, of course, that some people are so unreasonably demanding of themselves that they turn their lives - and sometimes those of others - into a "living hell".
rozeboosje 9 months ago
Definitely agree with this video. In the past I was conservative and thought things had to be a certain way, but as time went on I gained a greater understanding.
boholezbk 10 months ago
@boholezbk Thank you! And thanks to this video I have made a few really good Muslim friends.
rozeboosje 10 months ago
Very stupid to find one tries to speak to something he did not know talking about
Fawaz9ksa 1 year ago
@Fawaz9ksa I know my camera inside out.
rozeboosje 1 year ago
you have no idea what your talking about...i love my hijab ... i livein the west.....better to dress like amodest woman than to walk around looking like a whore for hire...
TheGoldamier 1 year ago
@TheGoldamier whore? LOL
Tell it to the muslimahs who agree with me. Infidel.
rozeboosje 1 year ago
. If He says that the worst sin is disbelief/joining others in worship of Allah and that will NEVER have a chance of forgiveness. Then I say "I hear and I obey to Allah". It's simple. I hope you take heed, if not that will only be at your own detriment
littlemissnas 1 year ago
@littlemissnas Ok. I've heard enough of this bullshit. Blocked.
rozeboosje 1 year ago
@ rozeboosje It's sound abit funny how you know that Allah does not exist. Could you elaborate on that? Yet again a clever chap like you could look at all of the signs around the world and even in yourself to know that there needed someone to create complex organisms like you and me.
littlemissnas 1 year ago
@littlemissnas You don't believe in "someone" or "something". You believe in Allah. Allah is the clear result of millennia of human manipulation of ancient Judaeic mythological concepts. The concept of "Allah" therefore cleartly bears no relation to reality and I am absolutely certain that Allah does not exist. As you were.
rozeboosje 1 year ago
@rozeboosje lol, Allah is my Lord and yours. I don't know whether to laugh at you or to feel sorry for you for being absolutely certain that Allah does not exist. Look at the present times and look at the signs. If you deny it and reply with a sentence that does not even tell why on earth you are certain, that there is not a god. Then I would just say that that mentality is just arrogant(to submit yourself to a God) and ignorant.
littlemissnas 1 year ago
@littlemissnas You don't believe in "a god". you believe in Allah. Rewind. Repeat.
rozeboosje 1 year ago
@rozeboosje lol!!!! (a moment of a chuckle).... Do you know what Allah means?
littlemissnas 1 year ago
@littlemissnas You do not believe in Vishnu. You do not believe in the Grand Wazoo. You believe in an entity to which you refer with the word "Allah". That entity is described in your holy book. You don't believe in any thing less qualified than that. The entity in question does not exist. Stop beating about the bush and address my other comment too while you're at it.
rozeboosje 1 year ago
@rozeboosje I do not believe in Vishnu(false god/idol), and if you are refering to God by using the slang terminolgy of Grand wazoo well then Yes I believe in God. Slightly funny that you speak about Islam in the video as if you know it. But then do not know the meaning of Allah. To but it simply in means God in Arabic. I have no idea how I am beating around the bush, as I have responded to all of your comments unless I unintentionally missed one.
littlemissnas 1 year ago
@littlemissnas Unintentionally my big shiny moon
rozeboosje 1 year ago
@rozeboosje If thats what you think then thats fair enough. It is simple. Allah is then one and the only god WORTHY of worship. He is the most merciful yet again the one who is swift in punishment. If you die in a state of disbelief unfortunately (to your own detriment), you will taste the punishment. Islam means the submission to God. What Allah has revealed to us in the Qur'an and through his Messengers is the truth, and Allah never leaves a promise.
littlemissnas 1 year ago
@littlemissnas Tell it to your own scholars, infidel.
rozeboosje 1 year ago
"...And it happened that both of them came to a place
Where they bumped. There they stood.
Foot to foot. Face to face..."
Dr.seuss? so are you the north going zax and i'm the south going?...
littlemissnas 1 year ago
@littlemissnas No need to go as deep as that. I don't respond to quotes of scripture. You quote scripture at me? I'll quote meaningless nonsense from another random book at you.
rozeboosje 1 year ago
@rozeboosje The reason as to why i quoted that specific verse was that I thought I'd answer your question. "And to hell with the rest of humanity? :-)"... I guess I did over analyse the Dr.seuss thing. And how comes you do not respond to quotes of scripture?
littlemissnas 1 year ago
@littlemissnas PC 10:32-35 Yaba daba doo. And Fnurbl spake "yergl booo". And the Zittites beheld a Oompa Loompah.
That's what Scripture sounds like to me.
rozeboosje 1 year ago
@littlemissnas So let's cut the Scripture, and get to the point. I will never submit to your religion. I know that Allah does not exist and I will never be a muslim. I will not discuss this and I am not interested.
Given that information, you can now answer the following question with a simple yes or no: will I face eternal punishment? No need to elaborate on your answer with Scripture that to me sounds like someone spouting random syllables.
rozeboosje 1 year ago
@rozeboosje Well considering I thought, a clever chap like you would understand my answer from the scripture. I'm not going to shy away from the truth. If you die upon disbelief of Allah and His Messenger (pbuh). Paradise is forbidden for you and yes, Hellfire will be your eternal abode. May Allah protect all of the muslims from that.
littlemissnas 1 year ago
@littlemissnas I see. And you know with absolute certainty what Allah's judgement will be? Do you think Allah's judgement must be submissive to Scripture? You are able to judge on Allah's behalf?
rozeboosje 1 year ago
Also another point is: The Hijab is meant to show that we are muslimahs. I would want to show everyone that I am a muslimah, at least that is also a way of identifying another muslim. Just like the men have beards, trousers above their ankles. If I was outside getting abused, and I was wearing a hijab and another muslim brother was also on the road, I would feel secure going to him rather than a non muslim. Because in Islam we are all together and stick together.
littlemissnas 1 year ago
@littlemissnas And to hell with the rest of humanity? :-)
rozeboosje 1 year ago
@rozeboosje "Surely, they have disbelieved who say: " Allah is the Messiah(jesus), son of Maryam (mary)." But the Messiah said "O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Verily, whosoever sets up partners in worship with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise for him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the Zalimun(polytheists and wrongdoers) there are no helpers. (5:72)
littlemissnas 1 year ago
@littlemissnas One day, making trax, in the prairy of prax, came a north going Zax and a south going Zax.
rozeboosje 1 year ago
To be honest, the end of your video does not make any sense. As muslims we all try to do what is according to the Qur'an and the sunnah. These two are the basis in where we gain our knowledge from. Therefore if we look at the wives of the Messenger of Allah(pbuh) we see that they wore the hijab/niqab. And thus we as muslimahs try to imitiate them.
littlemissnas 1 year ago
god bless you..... thank you for this wonderful video... what a beautiful mind
quantumsufi 1 year ago
@quantumsufi You're welcome! And thanks for the kind words.
rozeboosje 1 year ago
Wait, what's wrong with showing the world you are muslim? That is NOT anti-islamic. Many verses in the quran state you must not hide your religious beliefs for that would make you a hypocrite.
haveyouseenmypikachu 1 year ago
@haveyouseenmypikachu who said anything about hiding it? I'm saying you wouldn't walk around with a flashing Neon sign and a big arrow pointing at you going "Muslim". There is a difference between showing the world what you are and being exhibitionistic about it. The latter is hardly "modest".
rozeboosje 1 year ago
No, muslim women don't wear the hijab in PRIDE. They wear it declaring their modesty. Their intentions are not of that. (if it were, then it would be anti-islamic)
Its ALL about intentions:
verse 2:225 God will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts; and He is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing.
haveyouseenmypikachu 1 year ago
@haveyouseenmypikachu I don't care about your verses. An advertisement is an advertisement, and with modesty it has nothing to do. In order to dress modestly you do not need to dress like an Arab or like a fish out of water. If you don't agree, tell it to the Muslimahs who agreed with my assessment.
rozeboosje 1 year ago
@squeamishsquirrel Thank you. It's very difficult to talk about an observation like this and not come across as "confrontational". I'm glad I'm understood the way it was intended. Thanks for your comment!
rozeboosje 1 year ago
Roze
I have to ask - what would you say about a 'nun's' attire?
and who does that impact upon your views on hijab's?
I understand your angle and even quite plainly see the connection to the Islamic teachings of modesty in the qur'an, but I fail to see how that is important in the western, free world
The fact is, who cares what you wear - who has the right to tell someone they are not allowed, or to place a stigma, upon attire in a free country?
I see hijab's like habit's (headpiece)
MilitantPeaceist 2 years ago
The difference is that a nun will readily admit that she is wearing the habit to advertise the fact that she is a nun.
Any nun who tries to tell me that she is wearing her habit out of "modesty" will get the same response from me.
BTW, I know a few nuns, and many wear regular clothes. Regular but inconspicuous. Hey, that sounds familiar :-)
rozeboosje 2 years ago
lolololol
I understand what you are saying.
My understanding of the habit was that it was a material message showing their devotion to their God who does in fact command them to be modest.
In fact, if a person is proud to wear a bit of clothing, for whatever reason, that all power to them.
If the Burka, or any other garment or attire was ever banned in Australia - You will know that on the 1sy day - I'll be wearing it!
I don't like censorship of anykind.
MilitantPeaceist 2 years ago
P.S.
Um - correction
If pedophelia videos were banned - no, I don't think i would kick up too much of a stink then lol
MilitantPeaceist 2 years ago
Rose
In Australia when I was growing up (in the 70's) our Federal law was that someone could dress in drag but they had to wear their genders underwear underneath the outfit.
They banned underwear from being worn by the other gender (this went both ways).
This led to strip searches on the side of the road and an amazing display of inhumanity by our police.
So no - Banning things makes the matter worse and provokes similar oppressive actions of enforce that law, like compounding a lie!
MilitantPeaceist 2 years ago
Absolutely. And I trust you saw my video "Burqagain". Banning is *never* the answer.
BTW - I have absolutely no problem with anybody being a pedofile and expressing their opinion that it's OK to be a pedofile. But the moment they touch a kid or so much as start making moves toward approaching one, they're going to jail. And hopefully for a LONG time.
rozeboosje 2 years ago
Roze
Your 'BTW' just cost me a ciggarette - it literally was pneumatically propelled into my coffee when I read that - oh yeah you owe me a coffee as well HAHAHAHAHA
MilitantPeaceist 2 years ago
[grin]
sorry :-)
rozeboosje 2 years ago
yes that's true for the beginning but in time when more muslimahs dress this way it will become normal and accepted. theres always difficulty at the beginning but it's up to those who struggle and strive to make changes to stick to it to make progress
lisapisa1980 2 years ago
Just don't pretend you're being "modest", mkay?
rozeboosje 2 years ago
Hahaa, that's a novel idea to look at it.
Paxmax 2 years ago
:-)
rozeboosje 2 years ago
It's a strange notion that Islam would call for people to conform to everyone else to avoid being immodest.
metalorg 2 years ago
It's not so much a question of "conforming", it's more about checking what the "natives" do if they want to remain inconspicuous, and adopting that to maximise your "modesty" rather than adopting an alien style that makes you stand out like a sore thumb, and that basically screams "LOOK AT HOW MODEST I AM".
rozeboosje 2 years ago
There was an interesting study on TV a while back about 'sin', and it dealt with the same paradox. Pride is apparently a Deadly Sin, but anyone familiar with fundamentalist religious people will see the enormous amount of effort that goes into being seen as 'humble' - to the point where it gets competetive. Humility becomes a sourse of egotism, just as 'modesty' can become a sort of exhibitionism.
Excellent video.
Anekantavad 2 years ago
Thanks :-)
rozeboosje 2 years ago
So, Lady GaGa is actually as modest as a woman wearing a hijab? Cool.
TruthSurge 2 years ago
LOL
rozeboosje 2 years ago
This video is so fucking win. Pat yourself on the back, sir.
dylantuzyk 2 years ago
Cheers
rozeboosje 2 years ago
rozeboosje thank you for fighting and questioning something that is in so many western countries "untouchable". People don't want to condone the hijab (and be anti-woman) nor deride it (and be anti-muslim) the stance that you have taken is very hard to maintain in the face of all the "trolls" and "red herrings" but you are doing an admirable job, and I agree with you 100% in every point you have made about the garment, in all your videos. you are a champion of reason and rationality.
bradmanthethird 2 years ago
Islam needs to be something that can be talked about. Just like anything else. And rather than treating all Muslims like they are The Enemy it's much more constructive in my opinion to try and approach things in a manner that encourages the moderates.
rozeboosje 2 years ago
th only problem with that is that in my experience the moderates in any religion act as a base for making the radicals more legitimate, in their own minds, and the minds of others.
bradmanthethird 2 years ago
That's possible, yes, but the converse is also possible, that moderation leaves ajar the door to real change. See the decline of the influence of the Catholic church. It may take a long time, and the process is far from complete, but it happened.
rozeboosje 2 years ago
love the irony, in western countries we look and see what sucks
funkskull 2 years ago
:-)
rozeboosje 2 years ago
You see, that's commonsense applied to religion. Just like some of the suras where the prophet calls for tolerance and forebearance get ignored, so is common sense in every other aspect. Reasonable and righteous muslims are being drowned out by fanatical and rabid men (and, sadly, some women) in the Muslim world. I find the comparison of religion to a psychology test, a roscharch test of the soul, a useful one.
RyuDarragh 2 years ago
Nicely put
rozeboosje 2 years ago
Hijab practices vary widely in the Muslim world. As you say, it's more a set of basic parameters than any particular attempt at executing something conformable to them.
The face covering (niqab), if I understand correctly, is technically an "optional" pious exercise.
IOW. "wearing the drapes" with a little slit to see through would be "hijab" - but so would simply wearing loose fitting clothing and keeping the hair covered.
It's obvious WHICH of the two, in our society, is less ostentatious.
PlebRule 2 years ago
Exactly, and I think that therefore the latter would actually be more in line with the spirit of what "Hijab" was meant to mean. I've since found out that there are plenty of Muslimahs who agree with that interpretation.
rozeboosje 2 years ago
A nice act of sabotage would be to introduce a new fashion: A hijab made from a transparent material. Held readily in stock for those women in the western world forced by their social background to wear the hijab, but who still want to rebell - a bit.
Just half kidding.
Good points my friend.
take care and have a nice week
silk
;-))
blacksilkblacksilk 2 years ago
LOL. Yeah
rozeboosje 2 years ago
... You cannot make a velvet glove outta a sows ear... A pig in a poke is still a pig in a poke... Lay down with a sow you get sloppy... I wonder do they use scalding water to get the hair off on their honeymoon.. Yes I am feeling mean this morning, No reason just do... :(
Mrwrinkleintime 2 years ago
ciao bella, bene video
haashond 2 years ago
Grazie
rozeboosje 2 years ago
True, Rosebush, but isn't this like telling a Christian that being anti-homosexual is really anti-Christ if you go by his supposed teachings of loving the least among us, etc? It may well be the case, but they aren't listening, are they?
AncientAtheist 2 years ago
good point A.A., but i'm with rosebosje even if you reach just one you have done quite alot ^^
haashond 2 years ago
Actually, I agree with that as well. I'm just playing "devil's" advocate! Also known as "being a dick".
:D
Seriously, yeah, that's always my position - as hopeless as it feels some times. You toss these things out there and just hope to get people thinking a little bit.
Thanks for putting me in check.
AncientAtheist 2 years ago
:-)
rozeboosje 2 years ago
i think its important to differentiate between the headscarf, which doesnt cover the face, and things like the hijab that completely cover the face and make the person unrecognizable.
one obvious reason to differentiate is that most arguments used to criticize a muslim dress where the face shows applies to catholic nuns as well.
kurtilein3 2 years ago
There is no such thing as "the" hijab, although it is very commonly used to mean the head covering. Most of the time it does NOT cover the whole of the face.
My criticism here is not targeted at "the" hijab, just at the idea that Hijab should mean a traditional, highly recognisable garment that clearly labels the wearer as being a muslimah. In my opinion, such blatant advertising of one's religious affiliation is in contradiction with the requirement for "modesty" that is often (more)
rozeboosje 2 years ago
presented as a rationale for adopting such traditional garments. My argument is that if one wished to dress in accordance with the guidelines, a muslim woman in the western world should adopt drab, non-descript, inconspicuous WESTERN style dress that allows for following the guidelines re. what should be covered and so on.
What I address here is the hypocrisy between on the one hand making the claim that one adopts a traditional style Hijab (more)
rozeboosje 2 years ago
for reasons of "modesty" whilst simultaneously exhibiting pride by wearing what in our culture are clearly items of clothing that will make you stand out in a crowd. That is not "modesty" in any way, shape or form.
The reason I don't extend my arguments to, for example, nuns is simply because nuns do not try to make us believe that they are dressing the way they do out of "modesty" but they clearly know that it's a "uniform" that makes them highly recognisable for what they are.
rozeboosje 2 years ago
If a Muslimah tells me that she wears the Hijab because she is proud to be a Muslimah and she wants the world to know, then that's perfectly fine with me. But she can't then expect me to subsequently swallow the "modesty" claim.
rozeboosje 2 years ago
Yup
rozeboosje 2 years ago
In Tunisia, the 'traditional' or 'islamic' headgard for women is actually quite nice. It allows her hair to flow freely, is multicoloured, and doesn't hide her face at all. Tunisian women like to be women, and that can (for at least some women) mean wanting to look 'pretty' and feminine. They also like jewelry, makeup and perfume, even if they are quite conservative in the way they live.
Hindu women can also bridge the apparent gap between wanting to be 'sexy' and yet still be conservative.
Anekantavad 2 years ago
Yup. That is very true.
rozeboosje 2 years ago
It makes them stand out indeed.. However the most negative effect it has for Islam is being a symbol of oppression of women in the eyes of many westerners
ADF203 2 years ago
Yeah but in fairness why should they care about what symbolism WE have attacked to THEIR clothing? But figuratively going about shouting "look at how modest I am" is hypocrisy no matter how you dress it up. And it's fair to point that out.
rozeboosje 2 years ago
I didn't say they had to care about it, I'm just pointing out that the "protective garment" is slightly counterproductive in the west as far as protecting Islam's reputation goes. And yeah, there's nothing modest about bragging about being modest :)
ADF203 2 years ago
We could just kill the muslims? No? What purpose do they serve to mankind right now?
MilitantAtheistAhole 2 years ago
They're part of mankind.
Zekkron 2 years ago
indeed
rozeboosje 2 years ago
A part of mankind that is a threat to the rest of us. Christians I can get along with, Jews are alright. Buddhist have some awesome fucking food. Islam is absolute fucking dirt.
MilitantAtheistAhole 2 years ago
someone to fight, i guess.
creativeinsult 2 years ago
Aside from the fact that the majority of any group of people are decent folks, and also that even being an asshole does not mean one deserves to be killed, there is also the small percentage of Zakir Naiks and (here) Sami Zaataris who provide much needed comical relief.
rozeboosje 2 years ago
just poking fun XD
creativeinsult 2 years ago
;-)
rozeboosje 2 years ago
@ MilitantAtheistAhole,
So you want to kill all Muslims?... you want to kill a little over 1/6 of the current humans alive?
From one Atheist to another, please think before you write... well then again you did warn people of what you are with "Ahole" being part of your name.
NYCAustinNYC 2 years ago 2
quite
rozeboosje 2 years ago
Yes I am an ahole. I don't believe that ppl should die according to their faith. Just that ppl whose faiths tell them to kill others and feel good about it.
This shit is getting too old. Not enough room for this retardation of religion on our planet. You can be peaceful. I understand your ways but I can no longer follow that method. Fuck them.
MilitantAtheistAhole 2 years ago
dude, seriously.
rozeboosje 2 years ago
300 million kafirs have been killed by global jihad:
120 million Africans
90 million Christians
80 million Hindus
10 million Buddhists
The Black Death was the result of Muslim biological warfare attack. It killed about 30 million Christians.
sources: h t t p : / / tiny url . c o m / kma5ux
w w w . c d c . g o v / ncidod / eid / vol8no9 / 01 - 0536 . h t m
(remove spaces from links)
polka23dot 2 years ago
What has that got to do with the subject matter of this vid?
rozeboosje 2 years ago
@ItsTheSuperFly It isn't modesty of any kind. It is an aversion to pleasure. That is the basis for religion, a fear of pleasure.
ScottJanssen 2 years ago
A Muslim woman once, on one of my videos, tried to argue with another woman that the hijab is important because no woman can guarantee that the men around her are not having sexual thoughts when they look at her.
lazyperfectionist1 2 years ago
She should be happy. Most of those women are ugly as hell.
MilitantAtheistAhole 2 years ago
I doubt that being wrapped up is going to change that one bit XD
rozeboosje 2 years ago
Are you a statheist?
chorizo1337 2 years ago
That's an interesting term. What's it mean?
lazyperfectionist1 2 years ago
means an atheist that worships the state (most atheists are usually liberal and support a state)
chorizo1337 2 years ago
I am a Pino
rozeboosje 2 years ago
what the hell is a pino?
chorizo1337 2 years ago
A little Giuseppe
rozeboosje 2 years ago
Interesting.
I noticed the head dress differed in other parts of Asia like Malaysia and Singapore. I am and was ignorant of symbolism associated with faction if any. I noticed the minor and major aesthetic differences and assumed it was due to cultural influence.
Oh, taano71 have a sub. Hopefully I don't regret it.
Mephistophilus 2 years ago
I'm pretty sure that there are simple "fashion" differences from one place to the next, especially if the major differences are merely stylistic rather than what is actually covered. But there are also differences in interpretation of the rules as you can tell from the difference between, say, a small head scarf v. a burqah.
rozeboosje 2 years ago
Interesting.
Cheers Christine
christinepeace 2 years ago
Thanks!
rozeboosje 2 years ago
you got a point. But I don't think it really matters. Reason being that beyond the religious parts of it, its also a cultural thing. Its just always been done. Kinda like how girls shave their legs(i mean theres no real need to, is there? Other than fashion) I say let people dress how ever they please, as long as how they please is decent by local laws
theatomicskull999999 2 years ago
Of course, but there is no harm in pointing out that doing the equivalent of shouting off the roof tops how "modest" you are is (or could be seen as) a tad hypocritical...
I also accept, of course, that many women following Hijab in western countries have never thought about that and they're just doing what they're used to. But this is specifically aimed at those who wear it out of pride for being a Muslimah.
rozeboosje 2 years ago
I lost the key to my chastity belt.... :(
Elenkhos 2 years ago
ouch
rozeboosje 2 years ago
I actually had a Muslimah colleague at one point who agreed with you on this and didn't wear a headscarf for that very reason.
NeoDolph1n 2 years ago
Cool. Nice to hear I'm not *completely* barking up the wrong tree then :-)
rozeboosje 2 years ago
Att; Christian fellower,If Mary the Mother of Jesus were here today, none of you would give her a second glance.becouse she wore Hijab.
taano71 2 years ago
LOL
Yes, and there would be quite a few who would look down on Jesus himself (provided he wasn't identified as such to them) because he was a Jew.
rozeboosje 2 years ago
Lol Jij bent ook een van de Youtubercomedians. i thou jesus was a god As Christian say that.
taano71 2 years ago
I'm not even sure that a real person on whom the "Jesus" myth was built ever existed. I think it's more likely that a fictitious person was constructed around the aggregate of ideas we now associate with "Jesus". If he DID, though, I'm sure that a modern day "Christian" who had been transported into his time would not recognise him if he bumped into him in the street. As far as "a god" is concerned, what is a "god"?
rozeboosje 2 years ago
good video but on a side note the transcribe audio function doesn't work but does your video more interesting
kingbarneyoflondon 2 years ago
transcribe audio? Whats that?
rozeboosje 2 years ago
What about Catholic nuns?
Why nobody have a problem with what they wear?
elizkawalizka3 2 years ago
I don't think you'll ever find a nun who'd seriously try to tell you that their uniform is NOT intended to separate them from all the other folks in the street.
rozeboosje 2 years ago
Je hebt gelijk, daar zijn ze ook trots op. ;-)
panthera50 2 years ago
Yup
rozeboosje 2 years ago
But serious; I dont care a flying fuck what someone wants to wear really. ;-)
panthera50 2 years ago
Indeed not. But it's fair to point out hypocrisy if you come across it.
rozeboosje 2 years ago
Roze. i like you vid alwyz but It astounds me how critical non-muslims are concerning hijab. They pretend that they are not aware of the commandment to wear hijab does not occur in their own scriptures. For example, in corinthians there is a very clear injunction to wear
taano71 2 years ago
What is a "corinthians"?
JK ... but don't forget I am an Atheist. I don't have any "scriptures".
rozeboosje 2 years ago
Oh ja bijna vergeten! u bent Atheist. looool
taano71 2 years ago
[grijns] Ik zie er ook zo gristelijk uit he? ROFL
rozeboosje 2 years ago
Lol
taano71 2 years ago
is there a muslim community on youtube?
steveteaches 2 years ago
don't you see me? Lol
taano71 2 years ago
Pardon the lulz, Pino, but watching this with captions is pretty damn funny. :D
SAsgarters 2 years ago
captions? Is that a new thing?
rozeboosje 2 years ago
It's over there -->
Between the volume control and the video quality.
SAsgarters 2 years ago
Yeah, I just noticed there's something there I can toggle on or off, but it doesn't seem to do anything when I watch the vid.
rozeboosje 2 years ago
"This is not going to make me very popular with the Muslim community"
Yes, because they were just MADLY in love with you before. ;)
FourthDerivative 2 years ago 2
I actually get on quite well with many Muslims. :-)
rozeboosje 2 years ago
good points, Pino. I'd like to throw in a view about women demanding the right to keep their face covered in the name of their religion. First of all they are being very selective about the conservative aspects of that school of Islam. Since that very same strain says that women should not be in public without an escort of either their husband or a close male relative. They seem to forget that part conveniently. It just tells me it's more about making a ruckus than following their religion.
HeavyTrafficAhead 2 years ago 3
:-)
rozeboosje 2 years ago
The only thing I can honestly remember on this topic in the Quran is - a woman should wear a shawl that covers her breasts to show she is not seeking attention.
TheXroadr 2 years ago
Yes, the head dress should extend to cover the breasts. That's one of the 7 rules.
rozeboosje 2 years ago
I can't think of a mainstream religion off hand that does not require a woman to cover her head. It just gets ignored in some religions.
phuckery4you1958 2 years ago
I don't know, I'm not that well versed in what religions tell their followers to wear. I had to look up Hijab before I made this and I know there are different interpretations of THAT, too.
rozeboosje 2 years ago
I used to be a Christian zealot. Some protestant sects believe that long hair is the same as having covering. Head coverings are still popular in Catholicism and Judaism.
phuckery4you1958 2 years ago
Yes, you can still see "aul ones" going about their business with little head scarfs and/or hats on here in Ireland
rozeboosje 2 years ago
Interesting take on the whole thing.
bamboo4tameshigiri 2 years ago
Cheers. Little bit provocative but I hope not too antagonistic.
rozeboosje 2 years ago
I am going to disagree with you Pino, for a number of reason.
1. The rules are clear on the Hijab, how women goes about it would be different from the cultural background. Some cover the head fully, other don't but all of them wear the Hijab when they are praying. So it is not anti-Islamic.
2. The Jews, the Christians, Hindu, Sikhs, Buddhist all draw attention in the West with their clothing. You wouldn't know who the Dalai Lama was if he didn't wear those clothes, same for others.
imthoughtlessforever 2 years ago
1. The rules are not so clear that it prevents Muslims from bickering about it amongst themselves and to interpret them differently in different parts of the world, so that argument doesn't hold.
2. Unless a Jew or a Christian or a Buddhist CHOOSES to advertise their religion by wearing either religious symbols or a uniform, I defy you to identify one of those on sight. If you saw me in the street and you didn't know me, would you know straight off that I'm an Atheist?
rozeboosje 2 years ago
Interesting angle, though I think that your drawing of a line between modesty and being inconspicuous is a bit off the mark. A Muslims idea of modesty would include not resembling the perverted kuffar in any respect. Not drawing attention doesn't enter into the equation, and a visible statement of "we are not like you" is in line with the cultural supremacism inherent in Islam.
padperson 2 years ago
I'm sure that that is what it has become to more fanatical muslims, but I think that moderates may think otherwise. I've seen plenty of muslim women who feel quite strongly that they are Muslimah, but who do not feel the need to advertise their religion all over themselves. Fanatics, of course, will disagree. But fuck them.
rozeboosje 2 years ago
LOL...I'm sorry Pino, that is an interesting perspective, but I cannot lose the image of a muslim woman explaining to her husband that she was on the beach in Rio, and so chose the thong bikini so as to not call attention to herself. I understand where your coming from, I just don't think muslim men will be persuaded by this. Personally, I think of the hijab as the same as the burqa, with the degree being the only real difference.
Antichryst666 2 years ago
No, that's not what I meant. A thong clearly cannot be Hijab as it clearly doesn't cover that which should be covered. But you only need to look at western women around you to see that some cover just as much of their bodies as Muslimahs do, whether it is out of shyness, or modesty, or whatever other reason. That clothing can easily be adopted as Hijab.
rozeboosje 2 years ago
Some girls here wears a hijab and at the same time in extremely tight jeans, very high heels and tight shirts showing us ALL!
Vogter2100 2 years ago
The funny thing is that I would think that the jeans, the heels and the shirts would be more "Hijab" than the actual head scarf would be. Those garments would make the woman blend into the crowd, not drawing undue attention to herself. Here in the west, at least. Change the scarf to a bog-standard western type scarf of any description, and suddenly she complies with ALL requirements.
rozeboosje 2 years ago
@rozeboosje hehehe
Vogter2100 2 years ago
I disagree with you here, because I think the modesty thing is not a "not standing out"clause, but rather a standard of covering up. Standing out as muslima is no barrier for that.
peqdf 2 years ago
Yes, it's a standard of covering up, but the reason for it is to encourage modesty. Lady Gaga is occasionally completely covered up to the point where you cannot distinguish any identifiable bodily features. But she is clearly covering herself with outrageous garments designed to draw attention to herself. She isn't "immodest" because of any improper revelation of body parts (on those occasions, anyhow) but because of what her garments are designed to achieve.
rozeboosje 2 years ago
But its the intent that is different. Should people care in the choices they make for the reasons they have, of how other people perceive it?
peqdf 2 years ago