Camping Stove Design Part IV: Utilizing Isopropyl Alcohol as a Viable Stove Fuel

[KaiS2K]

Absolutely incredible video. I too am one that avoids Iso fuel due to its dirty nature however I can't deny the higher energy potential by using it. The truth is creating a stove to use methanol, ethanol or DA is easier than one that burns Iso clean as your vid demonstrates, it takes some doing. Since you pointed out that Iso needs more air, could a stove design that feeds 3x less fuel than a typical alc stove be feasible?

[BrokenAeroVT]

@KaiS2K When iso burns as a pool fire, it is probably burning with a mass AFR of 6-7. You need 10.3 (more air or a higher mass rate of air over mass rate of fuel). You can also do that by reducing the mass rate of fuel. This is basically what is happening when a can of iso is burning and you lower the pot closer to the flame. You will see the ratio improve with the blueing of the flame, but you also see the flame calm down a bit. This is the mass rate of fuel being reduced.

[LoveRise]

Impressive info shared here. Now I just want to find a small stove that will burn iso efficiently. Any recommendations? My real dream is to find a stove that will boil 2 cups of water using 62 percent hand sanitizer since I always carry that and I'm concerned with the toxicity of Heet

[BrokenAeroVT]

@LoveRise A simple cat can with a pot set no more than 1/2 inch above it will burn 91% iso blue and usually not soot your pot. At the last moment of flame, the small amount of iso vaporizes more quickly. When this happens, it soots. So put a little more than you need in the dish to keep this from happening. The stove will be a little slow for most people's taste. Usually above 8-10 minutes. The item in the vid is just an experiment, not a stove. Thanks for your comment, Loverise.

[LoveRise]

@BrokenAeroVT Thanks my friend, I appreciate your feedback. Strange but true I've never built a cat stove or used one. I picked up a cool tealight holder with sort of a built in pot stand that I scored at a thrift store yesterday for a buck that I'm going to experiment with this weekend using iso and hand sanitizer.

[BrokenAeroVT]

@LoveRise You won't have to punch any holes in this cat can, just use a stand not more than 1/2 inch gap between cat can rim and pot. If you do punch holes, you will raise the iso vaporization rate and risk changing the ratio of air to fuel negatively. The faster it burns (air sucked in and burned inside can boils the iso faster) the less efficient the burn is, and it can turn yellow and soot.

[LoveRise]

@BrokenAeroVT Okay so the key is the 1/2 inch. I'll try that with my tealight tests as well. Thanx!

[BrokenAeroVT]

@LoveRise You're welcome, your sweetness.

[BrokenAeroVT]

@LoveRise I have never experimented with hand sanitizer, but I don't see why it wouldn't work in the same fashion described earlier.

[BrokenAeroVT]

@LoveRise If I remember correctly, methanol doesn't have toxic effects until about 60ml are ingested. That would be about the amount of alcohol used to boil 8 cups of water. Wikipedia might be a little better informed than me. I also heard from a brewer on Youtube that the first bit of every distilled batch of ethanol is methanol and that it has to be purged off before bottling. Won't stop me from drinking a little wine now and then, hehe! Cheers!

[BrokenAeroVT]

After allowing Tinny of MBD the space of 100 posts 2 vent the stress of his cognitive dissonance arising from the wide gap between his narcissistic self love & the objective reality confronting him here, I've decided to terminate his unending tirade here. He doesn't seem 2 know when 2 give it a rest.

Many posts have been deleted. It's just 2 much 2 read & detracts from posts that relate 2 the video.

Anyone else continuing the tirade will have their posts deleted. Repeaters will be blocked.

[minibulldesign]

Ok--does anyone make a stove that does this with alcohol? I don't think so. I think it would just be an alcohol bomb---but a Stoichiometric alcohol bomb. And I seriously doubt you know the meaning of Stoichiometric ratios because no one else does. And no one else cares. Big words do not a good design make.

[BrokenAeroVT]

@minibulldesign "Big words" see, a snub. He's a jerk, on top of being a pretentious moron.

[minibulldesign]

Wow I really got under your thin skin---Cool that is what I was expecting .

[BrokenAeroVT]

Back Hitler! back into your territory and your underground bunker!!! Your days of exterminating people with degrees, the people who can see through your "design" buffoonery are drawing to a close!

[minibulldesign]

Someone needs a nap

[BrokenAeroVT]

Give it a rest, already, Tiny. You came into ~my ~forum, had -your- "thin skin" irritated by some unaffectionate posts here, then proceded to post your virulent responses, remember? No? Perhaps you're the one that needs a nap then, lol.

[minibulldesign]

Do you realize that you just made a complete ass of yourself in front of all your viewers by loosing it and posting a very long line of insane and hateful postings that anyone with a 3 grade education can see are not true. As soon as you loose your temper you loose the fight. Have a great day !!

[BrokenAeroVT]

I didn't "loose" anything, Tiny. That's just your cognitive dissonance trying 2 compensate 4 your own projected pathological behavior. I merely matter-of-factly defended myself from a wandering troll who invaded MY space with snubs & childish reactions regarding the reality of his devastated psyche. It is YOUR intention 2 try & provoke me into "loosing it" and being an "ass" so that u can pass off your debt of character & behavior onto me. That u acheived this is clearly your own delusion. ; )

[BrokenAeroVT]

As for libeling you, I have not. As for hating you, you are worthy. As for "loosing the fight", anyone can read the following posts from your own blog where you "loosed it" yourself and judge whether I have libeled you. But if your wounded soul really needs it, I'll conceed victory to you in the spirit of good sportsmanship, haha.

[BrokenAeroVT]

Tinny Quote Part 1:

I got another e-mail from backpacking light again. This time it was a new editor who is in charge of doing the stove reviews. In a nut shell he wanted me to send him a free stove and hinted he might do a review on it. After some conversation i discovered he lives in Australia, is 60 years old and does not have alot of background in alcohol stoves.

[BrokenAeroVT]

Tinny Quote Part 2:

I explained that it would not be in my best interest to have a review of my stoves done by someone who doesn't have a good working knowlege of these small stoves. His reply was that although he did not have alot of knowledge or experience with alcohol stoves, he did have a PHD and an outstanding knowlwdge of flame chemistry and gas flow (ie fuel/air mixing) involved in all of these stoves.

[BrokenAeroVT]

Tinny Quote Part 3:

Now I aint no rocket scientist but this guy is really getting on my nerves and you and i both know that there is no fuel air mix with this type of stove. So I suggest he read my blog and get back to me. He then comes back and basicly tells me to loose the ISO idea because he sees no need for it and suggest that i start using ethanol because it is better for your health.

[BrokenAeroVT]

Tinny Quote Part 4:

NOW I AM PISSED---So I explained to him that fuel is hard to come by in the middle of nowhere so a stove that will burn ISO that can be had anywhere. Would be very handy. Is everybody an expert??? and does PHD stand for post hole digger or piled higher and deeper??----Tinny---got stupid??

..

Seems like you do have issues with degreed individuals, who use "meaningless" words like "stoichiometry", can see through your facade, and can spell simple words like "lose." lol

[minibulldesign]

ANYONE can go to school and get a degree--but--it is what you do with it that shows your real worth. As far as alcohol stoves go. You have not produced one workable model that could be used by a backpacker. I have produced 20,000. Do the math and get back to me---oh great knowledgeable one from the school of higher learning. That must be a tough pill to swallow with the college loans and all.

[minibulldesign]

That is rather funny--I did not know you until some of your viewers contacted me and suggested that I offer to help you by offering my machine shop skills to make some of your designs more workable. it is apparent that you do not have machine skills or the equipment to build to your design level. This can be frustrating. I was amazed at the level of your science talks and just felt it was totally over my head. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[BrokenAeroVT]

Sorry? BS. You've blocked me from your site. I apologized to you 2x for a misunderstanding concerning that, 1x through Shugemery & another time in a reply to a comment you left elsewhere on my site. I remain blocked. From how I've seen you treating other people (PhD=Piled High and Deeper) on your sites and in your vids, I don't think there's anything to be misunderstood. You offered me no assistance & you snubbed me with your rude comment. You're a narcissist suffering from cognitive dissonance.

[minibulldesign]

When someone apologizes for a mistake or misunderstanding it is a good idea to accept the apology. Everyone make mistakes --intentional or not. I know that I have been very successfully in the alcohol stove design field and in the market of these designs and have a huge following. There is nothing I can or will do about that. And in the end we both know that this is your problem.

[BrokenAeroVT]

Hitler had a huge, adoring following in the beginning & he was a dominating narcissist in the territories of other's sovereignty, just like you are doing here. I'm not at all impressed with those kinds of credentials. In the end, we all saw that ~he~ was the problem.

[BrokenAeroVT]

Just for the record, only -one- unsolicited viewer contacted Tinny at minibulldesign to recommend a union of my knowledge and his machining to produce a stove I didn't have the equipment for. I asked the guy who did this not to act on my behalf again without my prior knowledge and approval.

I would caution anyone against going into business with this man. In his mind, he's a one man show. He only has room in his parade for what he calls "followers". That should be caution enough.

[minibulldesign]

a branch of chemistry that deals with the application of the laws of definite proportions and of the conservation of mass and energy to chemical activity

2 a : the quantitative relationship between constituents in a chemical substance b : the quantitative relationship between two or more substances especially in processes involving physical or chemical change

I don't think the public at large is ready for such big words. And they serve no purpose if people can't understand them

[BrokenAeroVT]

Hi Tinny, thanks for your comment.

The posts are directed at stove builders, not the "public at large".

As 2 the meaning & usefulness of the word "stoichiometry", I have more confidence in the intelligence of stove builders. If they are designing stoves, they have the aptitude 2 grab a dictionary & look it up. It's a word they need 2 learn if they want to make the best stoves possible. It's as indispensible a word 2 stove builders as a hammer is 2 carpenters.

(reposted in thread 12/09)