@MondoBeno those robber barons poured money into American institutions to gain footholds inside of them thus giving themselves the ability to persuade policy. Also JP Morgan was instrumental in setting up the panics which allowed for the robbers barons through their bought and payed for politicians to convince the public a central bank was necessary.
@VanceJoudrey Sowell use to be a liberal early on in his life until he actually worked for the government and noticed first hand how there intervention often made things worse. Sowell doesn't write or say things in hopes of whites approving his message. Anytime he goes on Beck or Rush talks about him they give him major respect because they know his work is thorough. In a Sowell book you're guaranteed at least 3-4 facts per page that you didn't know about before.
@VanceJoudrey Why is he an "Uncle Tom" because he doesn’t have a big afro, acting machismo, and screaming obscenities? Is that the mark of a black man in America, a big loud mouth screaming obscenities and speaking in “ghetto“ or as Thomas Sowell describes it as Redneck English?
@JoKo203 No because he kowtows to what Black activists have typically called the White Power Structure. Although it's not so much racial nowadays - you could refer to them as the upper 1%, as many do now or the Power Elite. His sycophancy visa vie the banks is astounding, par example
@TheArtimusMaximus What? Thomas Sowell is calling for an end to the "cancer" that is the Federal Reserve which is PRIVATELY owned by Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Bank of America, Wells Fargo and others that hijacked this country in 1913. Michael Moore and others want you to believe that it is Capitalism and the free market that is the enemy. It's the monopoly capitalists/corporatists that are the enemy.
One of the things I have to disagree with. The federal reserve is just a central bank all or a lot of countries have a central bank we get rid of ours and we give ourselves a handicap and pretty much kill our dollar.
@fds9931 that's such a childish thinking I don't even know how to answer this. To borrow money you need to save. In currency managed by central bank that link is micromanaged to fuck savers and reward borrowers. It creates impression that there are more resources to pay for projects than there really are and bust comes. Central banking (with fractional reserve) was meant to cure "cancer" - booms and busts. What it did was almost killing the patient itself - created more booms and busts.
"If the gov't had taken the bailout money, and given it every person in America, each person would have obtained an estimated $3,000. Instead, we gave it to the banks to prevent a recession that came shortly after anyway." - Dr. Ron Paul
How can you read that and still say libertarians are crazy?
@koolkamel322 I read it would have been approximately $130k if re-distributed (ugh I know) just to American homeowners......that would have ended the housing/mortgage/foreclosure crisis right there in its tracks. Sure it's the wrong thing to do but at least it would have gotten results.
@koolkamel322 Pretty simple. If you go against what the government says is best, you're a nutjob. That's the extent of the logic on that side of the debate.
@koolkamel322 they think immigrants come here for handouts. you honestly think a poor villager in el salvador, mexico, guatmala, etc. is thinking to himself "YO HOMES, YOU DOWN FOR A VACATION OR WHAT, ESE?"
It's a risky decision that often times requires you to abandon your family in your home country. Whoever honestly believes that immigrants (especially dark skinned immigrants) have it easy, is FOOLING themselves.
@erik4727 All the immigrants are leaving now because the american dream is dead and there are increasingly better opportunities in their home countries.
@koolkamel322 Because of all the other crazy things he says. His overseas policies are just unbelievable and dangerous, beyond words. Plus the drug legalization, no moral standards, which every country needs... and on and on
@jcapist Oh, and it is just SOOOOOO dangerous to stop throwing away money in never-ending wars..... Why don't you look up the debt clock and educate yourself, fool. You'd rather us go the way of the Roman empire... Have you ever actually read a history textbook? Of course not.
Volker was the best Federal Reserve chairman in the last 60 years. He didn't make the mistake of putting too much money in the system as Greenspan did.
@ImhoffInstruments It's people like Peter Robinson and Thomas Sowell that we have the Federal Reserve in the first place. Everybody wants something for nothing. The susposely educated wants to be payed some huge amount of money. for what. running there mouth. if the stake their life that what they say is true I might believe them.
@comptonproduction I'm not really sure what you were trying to say there, but again, do you think the Federal Reserve is a decent institution? I like Ron Paul better than Sowell anyway.
@ImhoffInstruments I don't give a fuc*** about the Federal Reserve. It's idiots like Uncle Tom Sowell that is the problem. People like Uncle Tom Sowell come up BS like the Federal Reserve.
@dreamingWisdom Uncle Tom Sowell is a lap dog for the elite in america. You think he gives a flying fuc*** about some federal reserve. The only thing he cares about is money and power. you get power from kissing rich white folks. don't you understand anything.
@comptonproduction I guess you say that about every libertarian and Austrian and Chicago school economists if you base that charge on his stance on economic philosophy.
@dreamingWisdom Economics is a Bunch of garbage. If you believe in that crap, then I a swanp land to sell you in the Everglades and The London Bridge too.
@comptonproduction You mean the elite in America that benefit from their buddies in the Federal Reserve giving them TRILLIONS in bailouts? Those are "rich white folks" he's AGAINST. Get informed so you don't embarrass yourself, idiot.
in 1907 there was a lot more options and you can feed a family of 4 for less than 2$ and there was a huge labor force no outsourcing of jobs and no technology thats why i hate it when thomas uses his historian skills to solve current economic issues
@ Mondo Beno, in reading about the men that you list, I find that it was to their advantage to pump monies into schools and universities to benefit themselves and not society at large.
Because of these men we have the failed public school system we have today. Indoctrinated instead of reasoning and analyzing.
People, this video only has 18,496 views as of the time of this writing. I implore you to spread this around as much as possible. Every thinking/voting person in the United States of America needs to hear this man speak, and speak clearly.
J.P. Morgan may have been something of a robber baron, but like most millionaires of the time (Carnegie, Rockefeller, Ford, Vanderbilt, Whitney, Guggenheim) he felt a sense of accountability to the nation. These guys put huge piles of cash into schools, universities, libraries, and hospitals.
@MondoBeno True, but you have to remember that it was some of those same guys who invented the Creature from Jekyll Island (a.k.a. the Federal Reserve). Whether they truly wanted to stabilize the economy or wanted monopolistic control over the money supply is a question worth asking.
"We have, in this country, one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board. This evil institution has impoverished the people of the United States and has practically bankrupted our government. It has done this through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it". — Congressman Louis T. McFadden in 1932 (Rep. Pa)"
I like Sowell a lot, but I don't like his quote at the end. In other places he often says that the easiest way to defeat leftist arguments is to ask, "compared to what?" I wish he would be consistent and see that he needs to apply that to his own arguments.
@wjb45958 I agree. He should've offered a solution. He is very consistent with offering ideas, but he never suggested a solution for what he would do after he abolished the gold standard - if you watch the video it sounds like he's holding something else back. The only way to prevent great inflation is to go back to the gold standard and I know he knows it. On another note - this guy is a genius. I watch his videos everyday, repeatedly. Kinda creepy :I
@ahhhitsjay I can't speak for Sowell, but my guess is he didn't give a specific solution because he doesn't believe it should be his or any other individuals role to determine what works in a barter system. If pressed further he probably would say that the replacement would be chosen by the free market over time. Historically the market has chosen gold and that's probably what would happen again.
We support all these socialist countries that are getting bailed out by the IMF and World bank. Our hard work goes to support 30 hour work weeks and retirement at age 50 in Europe. They get a quarter of the year off work while we work our asses off to support their lavish benefits. Now everyone can see what "one world government" is all about...
The Ponzi scheme Fed stole $8.4 TRILLION from the auctions of Treasury securities last year. Congress never asked about it. It is embezzlement that is leading to national bankruptcy. The wealth of the nation is transferred to "financiers." Ref. 3w scribd dot com message 49040689.
Power should never be in the hands of so few people. Our founders knew this when they limited the federal government's power and created the three rings of government each checking the powers of the other (when it functions correctly and the voters are "wise and moral" ...so much for that).
Decentralize the money supply and back it with tangible assets (gold, silver,oil, etc). Remember, a dollar is a receipt for tangible wealth. When they decouple it from the asset, all you have is paper.
"Decentralize the money supply and back it with tangible assets (gold, silver,oil, etc). Remember, a dollar is a receipt for tangible wealth. When they decouple it from the asset, all you have is paper."
I wish more American people would realize this & how dangerous this is for them. That's why there's a conscious effort on the part of establishment to hide Ron Paul from the American masses who's the only one talking about real issues.
@lomocan I would say all you can do is get involved - join your local tea party and expose the MSM for the leftist establishment scumbags that they are.
I did a search for "Thomas Sowell on Ron Paul" & this is what came up. With all the things going on since the 2008 elections & nobody bothered to ask what Sowell thinks about Paul.
Well, Sowell did release article last time during primaries I believe & addressed almost every other candidate but NOT Ron Paul so I don't think Sowell is as much of a "free marketer" or "libertarian" as he claims to be but I've admit, this is one of the best interviews by a "mainstream" economist on Fed. Not to mention, the ending was classic :)
@KenMacMillan I think Sowell would like Dr Paul and vice versa EXCEPT in the area of foreign policy where Sowell is truly conservative and Paul is truly libertarian.
I did a search for "Thomas Sowell on Ron Paul" & this is what came up. With all the things going on since the 2008 elections & nobody bothered to ask what Sowell thinks about Paul."
@SuperAlexrios Thanks to the federal reserve, we have created high inflation, booms, and bust cycles. Thanks to the federal reserve we are in the mess we are in today. Quantitative Easing is very dangerous and hyper-inflation is the most destructive disease known to modern societies, there is nothing which will destroy a society so thoroughly and so fully, as letting inflation run high. The Fed transfers wealth from main street to wall street and is a private bank. You need to wakeup
@AroundSun You too fucking stupid for words. Even dumber than the nigger Sowell. Hyper inflation? CPI all items in July 2008 was 219.964. CPI all items in July 2011 was 225.922. That is an annual rate of inflation of .8% over 3 years.
@RONPAULFREEDUMB Let me guess, you are a big government economically illiterate democrat who hasn't lost all credibility with the federal reserve or the CBO. Obama can do no wrong and we are not in a bad financial situation. You blame everything on George Bush from bad weather to a bird shitting on your car... is this about right?? Now Sowell is dumb?! HAHAHAHAHA WOW. Tell me then genius why gold is at a record all time high every other day? Maybe...THE DOLLAR IS COLLAPSING?? Dumb dick
No, I must disagree. Inflation is a difficult problem, and hyper-inflation even more so is NOT the great spectre to fear. The ultimate fear is the propensity for an economy to enter into a deflationary spiral that can result in non-spending cycles that will ultimately destroy and economy. QE is an attempt to push the economy into inflated territory that prompts more spending . Japan didn't do QE early enough, and it obliterated their economy; so much so they recovered from deflation
@bigollameo No..You see, we have a private central bank that has the privilege of issuing its' own currency. A secretive private bank that holds no accountability to ANYONE. Congress can not even audit. You say hyperinflation isn't a problem? Tell that to the citizens who held the continental dollar. Tell that to Germany, France, Zimbabwe, etc...Zimbabwe was printing out $100,000,000 notes before they finally collapsed. Keep believing in those Keynesian remedies LMFAO...
"thanks to federal reserve the economy still sound otherwise the economy in the hands of republicans and demos would put everyone into starvation"
Well, it has been in the hands of Reps & Dems, well, actually Reps & Dems are bought by the same people that run Fed from the background. Most politicians like Fed because apart from the money they'd get, it allows them continue their welfare & warfare that gets them votes as Fed monetizes the debt.
You replace the cancer with a resource based economy. A resource-based economy would utilize existing resources from the land and sea, physical equipment, industrial plants, etc. to enhance the lives of the total population. In an economy based on resources rather than money, we could easily produce all of the necessities of life and provide a high standard of living for all. This is what the Venus Project talks about. I would advise all who wants to see a change in the world to look into it.
@MatsKaarbo I just looked into the Venus Project. I would like to ask you a question; if not for the price system, which system will allocate scarce resources that have alternative uses?
@laborwage A resource based economy would. This system monitors all the knows resources on earth and automatically regulates the access to scarce resources, so that the scarce resources get time to re build so to speak. Sorry for my bad English. Another point would be that everything that we build and grow would be built with the purpose of recycling. So that nothing goes to waste, unlike what we see in this society. I hope this answers your question.
@MatsKaarbo Your English is just fine. My confusion is with HOW the resource based economy can allocate scarce resources which have alternative uses. How does such an economy deal with knowledge? That is, how is it that resources go to one time and place in a certain quantity or quality? How are resource demands communicated, and how are these demands weighed against alternative demands for the same resources elsewhere in the economy?
@laborwage First of all, we would need to take a survey of all the resources on the planet to figure out what we have and what we can use. Then the knowledge of scarce resource would be regulated and communicated by a global cybernated system that monitors all the resources on earth in real time. This system will essentially evaluate and weigh demands on behave of what resources are available at any given time, not what we think is best.
@MatsKaarbo This may sound like cold science, but when you think about it, it really makes sense. Having an objective view point based on what we have and not what we don't have is really the only way to keep the balance we need in a sustainable society. I would love too give you detailed explanations of how it all works, but I simply don't have the technical knowledge. But I hope this answered your question, if not don't hesitate to keep asking.
@MatsKaarbo Unfortunately it does not sound like a science at all. Attempting to quantify resource quantity without integrating extraction costs is 1.) Not a good idea from the perspective of eventual allocation and 2.) Is a process that requires continuous recalculation, even if extraction costs are integrated.
Also, why do this with one computer system if you can do it with millions, as is done today? Can one computer possibly do all the calculations that millions can do?
@laborwage You know, the technical aspects of this is really not my strong side. I hear your points and I know these would be much appreciated if you questioned them either to Jacque Fresco directly or Roxanne Meadows which has worked with him for several decades. You can find their e-mail addresses on The Venus Project official website. As for the 'one computer system', I really meant a global computer system that would of course utilize enough power from several million computers in every city
@MatsKaarbo Again, sorry for my bad English... I would suggest to look into some of the interviews with Jacque Fresco talking about The Venus Project and a resource based economy here on YouTube. You should also check out 'Future by Design' from 2006 featuring Jacque Fresco where he explains all about The Venus Project. Also! Check out the Zeitgeist: Addendum and Zeitgeist: Moving Forward which feature Jacque Fresco talking about the resource based economy. I hope this helps!
@laborwage We as in all humans. The Venus Project don't believe in any government, political parties or any leader for that matter that would take decisions as we have today. Of course in the transition to a resource based economy there would be need for scientists and engineers that could build machines that would take care of the rest. Other than that, all humans are one. There is no class, no leaders, and no decision makers. If you look into it, you would see what I am talking about.
@MatsKaarbo Well, the machines would need maintainance, right? Who would attend to that? Would the machines instruct people in how to build homes and grow food? Who would transport the resources in the economy? How would they know where and when to show up for work?
And doesn't the existence of machines that control every resource flow decision provide a very easy route to corruption?
@laborwage With the technology we have to day we know that approx 90% of all jobs can be taken over by machines. So yes, we still need to maintenance until we can make machines that can repair themselves, which I actually thing is right around the corner. Machines would only relieve us from jobs and labor and bring us the necessities of life, not making decision.
@MatsKaarbo "With the technology we have to day we know that approx 90% of all jobs can be taken over by machines." Do you have any evidence to support this view?
And what if people built replicating machines that demanded more resources themselves? How would you decide who owns those machines? How would you deal the population?
Has this system been tried on a smaller scale?
Do the founders support alternative systems, or can theirs be the only one on the planet?
@laborwage Do you have any evidence to support this view?
Both Jacque Fresco and Peter Joseph has talked to scientists and engineers in the automation machine business and have gotten this both well explained and well documented before stating this. I believe that Peter Joesph the director of the Zeitgeist film series did put up a source page to support what he states in his films and. You would probably need to look it up on thezeitgeistmovie. com webpage for this information.
@MatsKaarbo The Zeitgeist? Oh, the 9-11 conspiracy movie? Cool story, bro.
When Jacque Fresco and his followers produce all of the machines required and give birth to a small society with a standard of living such as they promise, I'll be interested. But if they want ALL OF THE EARTH'S PEOPLE do drop everything they are doing and participate in a poorly thought-out social experiment, this sounds like a pathway to potential mass starvation...
@laborwage "The Zeitgeist? Oh, the 9-11 conspiracy movie?"
The Zeitgeist film series talks about more than just the 9/11 conspiracy. It talks about how religion and the monetary based system is corrupt and has been used to control people. I highly recommend these as well, if your interested in the resource based economy. Cause these films talk about whats essentially wrong with the current system we live in.
@laborwage Has this system been tried on a smaller scale?
Not yet, but both Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows livelihood is based on this vision. You can see this in depth in 'Future by Design'
Do the founders support alternative systems, or can theirs be the only one on the planet?
The system that Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows advocate is simply a proposition. It's not a final utopia, cause there is no such thing. You can only make the 'best' with what you know right now.
@laborwage ...and the great thing about machines is that they can work non-stop 24/7 all year. I am not talking about human-like-machines who walks around and showing up for work. It will be stationed machines like the once car factories have.
Keep in mind that machines is man made, they don't think for themselves and they have no ambitions. They do what we tell them to do. If I throw a laptop in front of 50 other laptops they wouldn't care. So you see there would be no corruption.
@MatsKaarbo Yes, but who designs the machines? Could they not be corrupt and keep the better machines for themselves? And stationary machines cannot accomplish even a small percentile of the work necessary in a complex economy. If you want machines to accomplish such feats as you ask of them, you need to give them motivations and intelligences. How could unintelligent machines possibly put a dent into the resource allocation problem?
Jacque Fresco has actually worked almost his whole life on this project where he has designed and worked out the engineering of the machines. He himself has worked as a industrial designer and social engineer his whole life, so he has obviously an in-depth in these things.
For the remaining questions, I suggest watching 'Future by Design' with Jacque Fresco talking about these things. Also check out interviews of him here on YouTube.
@laborwage Well, actually he has. I am sorry for not explaining this well enough. But, it's essentially the computer based core in every city that we've been talking about that regulates this.
You're welcome. I am glad you found it interesting and I hope the films and interviews will give you better answers and much more depth and insights! :)
@laborwage ...but, if you thought about corruption regarding to humans there would simply be no reason for that. Think about it. If you have all the necessities you need in life and it is the technology that allows you to sustain that life style, would you really mess that up?
Again, I suggest you watch 'Future by Design' and 'Zeitgeist: Addendum' and 'Zeitgeist: Moving Forward' to really see the difference between the monetary based economy and a resource based economy.
@MatsKaarbo "If you have all the necessities you need in life and it is the technology that allows you to sustain that life style, would you really mess that up?"
OF COURSE!!!! People have a complex human nature, and selfish ambitions are a big part of it. People are survival machines for replicators, both genetic and memetic. Given the opportunity and sufficient time, people grab as much power as they can. No society has ever escaped this.
@KenMacMillan The root causes of all aberrant behavior like stealing, violence and even murder is caused by the monetary-based system that we live in. That's because we need money in order to survive and if we don't have any other choice, we do those things. A resource-based economy gives the people what they need without the use of money and labor. Therefor there will be no corruption or stealing or murder over things they get for free. Communism operates within a monetary-based economy...
@MatsKaarbo All human behavior aberrant or not, is found in other species in nature. Orangutans rape, chimpanzees steal & murder, etc. Since we're the only one that uses money the premise of your conclusion is false. People do what they do for their own reasons which may or may not include money which is nothing more than a medium of exchange. The only thing that would change in a resource based economy is the justifications for the crimes committed.
Any idea that having all the necessities of life would make crime go away completely ignores crimes committed by people who already have all the necessities of life. In fact if everyone had all the necessities of life handed to them they would have more free time to rape, rob, & torture people if they were so inclined. This is nothing more than a hypothetical situation anyway because resources are limited & the overseers of such an economy would have no choice but to ration those resources out.
That puts the 3% of "volunteers" talked about in Zeitgeist: Moving Forward in control of all the world's resources & in a position of immense power. Some might even call them elitists. Who will want those jobs, the nicest people in the community or the power hungry? How does one get that job? Do they have to qualify or do they get elected? Who qualifies, the friends & family of the people already in power? Besides, nobody takes care of things that they don't own which means more waste.
a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.
Remove the spaces
htt p : // dictionary.reference. com/browse/communism
@KenMacMillan Again, communism still uses money in their system that perpetuate corruption, greed, inequality, classes and leaders. Non of this will be in a resource-based economy, because their is no money involved. You have to remember that a RBE is not just a systems approach, but it's a train of thought as well. We need to acknowledge that we live on a finite planet with finite resources and that we need to live together in accordance with nature in order to survive as a species.
Perhaps you believe in posting comments without reading others but here's what KenMacMillen said
"Any idea that having all the necessities of life would make crime go away completely ignores crimes committed by people who already have all the necessities of life."
So tell me, if scarcity is what causes crime then what about "evil bankers" that control the whole system, they're already VERY RICH? What about white-collar criminals?
@lomocan It depends on what you define as 'evil'. Bankers are victims of society just as everybody else. They are born into an environment/system, by rich parents already owning banks in this case, that encourage and brainwash them to think that owning the 'fruits of life' are a good thing and that they need to perpetuate and protect that that fortune because they are the god sent. This is the reality in a lot of rich communities around US. Are they evil? Obviously not.
@MatsKaarbo Like I said, money doesn't cause crime, people cause crime. It's an empirically verifiable fact. You seem to think that the people in control of the resources would somehow not want the best resources for themselves or their friends & family. Reality proves otherwise.
@KenMacMillan ...but when you look at the motivation behind crime, it's always monetary related. This is being confirmed by psychiatrists all over the world. Nobody is born criminal. It's the environment that breeds crime and money is a part of that environment. Crime is also a negatively charged word that derives from the laws that we create within a monetary-based system so that corruption is being controlled by the law makers and the bankers.
You say scarcity causes crime but that's OBVIOUSLY NOT TRUE as even rich people with no scarcity issues commit crime while not all poor people living in scarcity commit crime.
Then you say money causes crime but the simple fact is that crime existed well before "money" was invented.
These are EXACTLY the kind of things marx, stalin, lenin, mao told people about, about utopic paradises but we all know how they always end, the "creators" of these "visions" become dictators.
@lomocan 95% of all crime is monetary related. Rich people are indoctrinated into the system to perpetuate their fortune by doing illegal business with bankers and investors that only benefit them. They believe this is the right thing to do. Does that make them criminal in their dictionary? The other 5% of crime is due to jealousy and personal problems which again can be traced back the stressors of the monetary-based system.
@lomocan ...but Marx, Stalin, Lenin and Mao never had any solutions for ending poverty, war, corruption, inequality and unjust. Their frame of reference came from the system they where indoctrinated into, the monetary-based system.
However, The Venus Project (Jacque Fresco) has a solution for all these problems, because he thinks outside the box unlike all the politicians today that only perpetuate this ancient old system we live in.
Seriously pal, READ others' comments > "the simple fact is that crime existed well before "money" was invented"
No one who believes in individuals' right to their life, liberty & property is going to fall for Fresco's rehashed communism; it just looks nice to here but ultimately it's enforcement requires breaching of people's freedoms & eventually people revolt after they've suffered enough. No sane person will agree to Fresco's communism run by technocrats.
@lomocan Well, I have to ask. You do know that money is just another way of exchanging goods between people like the gold standard was before it, right? And perhaps many other ways has been used to exchange goods in the past even before the gold standard. I don't know the full history here. But I hope you see my point. I've also addressed that the other 5% of crime, if you've read my comments.
How is what Fresco propose anything near communism? Please enlighten me.
Then get acquinted with how & why money evolved naturally > tinyurl(dot)com/3ppjz7d <
As for Fresco,he's advocating everything that communists advocated,one example is his belief that "greed" can be "cured:" thru social engineering which communists tried & failed miserably even though basic psychology will tell you organisms are driven by perceived self-interest. I suggest you learn BASIC economics at mises.org & you'll see why such demagoguery is destructive to EVERYONE
@lomocan Thanks for the suggestions, I will check it out.
Communism still uses money though, which ultimately breeds greed. The power of consuming becomes a naturally driving force when we live in a competitive world and everyone wants what everybody else has. What Fresco is advocating is a money-less society and thus greed perish. We get more focused on what we need and not what we want - that is the only way if we are ought to be sustainable for future generations.
Communism can exist with or WITHOUT money,money is irrelevant to existence comunism,its main theme is that every individual is slave to the collective & the state & that everyone should be guarenteed some goods/services without them having to work for it. Please read the link I've given & understand what money is. It's NOT that people desire money but rather they desrire REAL WEALTH ie goods/service that money can buy; money is a just mediator for "coincidence of wants" (google it)
Fresco's utopia would at best be communism without money. It's the MARKET that determines what people need & want thru its pricing system, labor, capital, resources are directed accordingly; without a market, it'll be central-planners who'll decide what's "needed" who eventually become dictators; this is how every communist/socialist-utopia ends.
Further, what's wrong with freedom? What's wrong with people having right to their life,liberty & property & keeping what they EARN?
@lomocan First of all, there is nothing such as an Utopia. Read carefully the definition of it. Certainly a RBE is not an Utopia, because it is uses of the scientific method which says that we can only create the "best" thing up to the point of our present knowledge until some new idea comes up and makes it better. Let's take laptops for example. The best laptop out on the market right now, will be surpassed within a mount. This is how the scientific method works and would work in a RBE.
Ok,let's see, he's talking of a crimeless society where most people don't need to work & they can do whatever they want with their time & still live a good life....hmmm....yup, that's a utopia he's promising, just like every other communist/socialist dictator has promised before taking over the country.
And who decides what is "best" & what is to be created, don't tell me "people", no, people as whole don't agree on $hit; you know what technocratic central-planners will.
@lomocan Second of all, in a RBE it would be the PEOPLE who would determines what they need. RBE also uses A.I computer systems in factories and distribution systems that can produce goods and food in accordance to what nature has to offer. There is no leader, politician, or central-planners who decides who gets what. It's the common sense of using machines to allocate the resources we have available in a responsibility way so that we can be sustainable.
"it would be the PEOPLE who would determines what they need"
Yeah, just like "people" determine who they want as govt in democracies & yet, always get a corrupt governance, people do NOT decide anything as a whole & since resoureces are scarce without a central-planner, such system will waste resources; resources will always seem limited & thus there's the question distribution. Further, machines need to be CREATED & nobody's going to work hard without expecting a return
@lomocan ...and the free market system we have today rely on infinite resources on the planet which we don't have...
There is nothing wrong with freedom. But, do you really think you are free in this society? We are the only species that uses money. We are the only species that most of us goes to jobs we don't like and can't pay our huge debt that makes us stressed and depressed. We are the only species that wage wars against each other while we should all live with each other.
Well, I'm not as free as I'd like to be but I'm willing to work towards a better thing BASED ON FREEDOM of life, liberty & property, NOT some technocratic cornucopia that someone proposes just like so many had in the past only to end in massacre 100s of millions in the name of "curing greed & making a better world".
We're the only species that wage wars???????? You're kidding me, right? Resources are limited & I believe in people EARNING their living, not in empty day-dreams.
@lomocan When you say " like so many had in the past only to end in massacre 100's million in the name of curing greed and making a better world. What do you think western white civilization has been doing and continue to do the past 600yrs to today all over this planet.
@lomocan Communism can't exist without money, cause then the system can't work. Communism is based on the same principles as capitalism, which requires people to consume and to do that they need money and to get money they need to work. In a RBE where 95% of all labor is replaced and automated by machines and intelligent allocation of scarce resources is being taking in consideration, people wouldn't have to go to their repetitive, boring jobs but instead do stuff they really want to do.
Communism doesn't've anything to do with money, it's concerned with equal distribution of goods/services irrespective of the value & work done by each individual, it's a day-dream of freeloaders. People have to work because there's no cornucopia, even machines need to made & repaired & monitored & of course, they can be controlled so those 5% who control them become de facto rulers as they control the whole supply-chain & there's no need for them to let other 95% to leech them.
Ok, let me propose a society, every person has a right to his life, liberty & property; people are free to do whatever they want SO LONG AS they don't violate other people's rights, & of course, people keep what they EARN without violating someone else's rights. All of this based on the simple idea that of FREEDOM.
@lomocan You have to remember that the planet is finite. It has finite resources. So everyone can't own a huge villa, a Ferrari and a mini golf track - because we simply don't have the resources to do that. So how is this not violating the people that can't afford that? Of course the poor people wants the same amount of property as the rich people. So technically the rich people are violating the poor peoples rights to posses. But we have law for "stealing", so your argument is invalid.
Yes, resources are finite & that's why a Fresco's utopic system can't give everyone everything they want & that's where central-planners will come in & decide who gets what & usually, they'll keep most stuff to themselves.
NOBODY has a "right to being rich", you should work for it & EARN it yourself or hope that you turn lucky that someone who has earned it, gives it to you; that's the only FAIR system.
@lomocan Not only is your proposal unfair, unequal and unjust, it is also socially offensive to the people that don't have the power of possession. It's really a backwards society. It exploits the resources and is unsustainable. We are capable, with technology, to automate 95% of all jobs, make a system that is sustainable and healthy for the human race and equally share the goods and food between them, where we would be more free than you could possible image, how is this not the way to go?
EVERYBODY has power of possession, you just need to have to work for it which obviously none of the communists want to.
And tell me why the other 5% would work for the rest? They don't need to. The only reason they might is if they've something to gain from it & turn the rest into slaves; otherwise they'll like kill the all the freeloaders anyway.
Please read basic psychology, humans are largely drive by their perceived self-interests & egos; nothing will change about that.
The idea whole idea of "Fresco's crimeless society" is naive, people don't just commit crime out of scarcity, there're many other reasons like jealousy, mating, status, ego & so on, not to mention NOT ALL poor commit crime.
As I've said, the only fair system would be one where people are free to whatever they want as long they don't violate other people's rights to their life, liberty & property. Trading freedom for a little prosperity doesn't work in the long-run.
So you take people for their words, especially those looking to grab power? It doesn't matter what he says it is or isn't, it doesn't negate all the facts I've raised. It's a pipe-dream for those wishing to freeloading slackers, just like communism was; in fact, you should read the communist works & then you'll be able to see clear parallels; even communism talked about a future without money where machines would do everything, etc It's just rehashed communism.
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MrSeriouslytho 4 days ago
Why don't Uncle Tom Sowell give up all his federal reserve notes if he think it a cancer. a cancer is bad for you, deadly.
comptonproduction 2 weeks ago
@comptonproduction You do realise that cash was around before the federal reserve
AnonymanForeverlol 2 weeks ago
yes,and what's that got to do with the price of milk.
comptonproduction 2 weeks ago
@MondoBeno those robber barons poured money into American institutions to gain footholds inside of them thus giving themselves the ability to persuade policy. Also JP Morgan was instrumental in setting up the panics which allowed for the robbers barons through their bought and payed for politicians to convince the public a central bank was necessary.
testimonysealdnblood 3 weeks ago
"When someone removes a cancer what do you replace it with?"
Win.
Mrmoc7 3 weeks ago
Uncle Tom, 21st century edition.
VanceJoudrey 1 month ago
@VanceJoudrey - then prove him wrong
spktruthinlove 1 month ago
@VanceJoudrey Sowell use to be a liberal early on in his life until he actually worked for the government and noticed first hand how there intervention often made things worse. Sowell doesn't write or say things in hopes of whites approving his message. Anytime he goes on Beck or Rush talks about him they give him major respect because they know his work is thorough. In a Sowell book you're guaranteed at least 3-4 facts per page that you didn't know about before.
ninjanickb 1 month ago
@ninjanickb Great man.
jcapist 1 month ago
@VanceJoudrey Why is he an "Uncle Tom" because he doesn’t have a big afro, acting machismo, and screaming obscenities? Is that the mark of a black man in America, a big loud mouth screaming obscenities and speaking in “ghetto“ or as Thomas Sowell describes it as Redneck English?
JoKo203 1 week ago
@JoKo203 No because he kowtows to what Black activists have typically called the White Power Structure. Although it's not so much racial nowadays - you could refer to them as the upper 1%, as many do now or the Power Elite. His sycophancy visa vie the banks is astounding, par example
TheArtimusMaximus 1 week ago
@TheArtimusMaximus What? Thomas Sowell is calling for an end to the "cancer" that is the Federal Reserve which is PRIVATELY owned by Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Bank of America, Wells Fargo and others that hijacked this country in 1913. Michael Moore and others want you to believe that it is Capitalism and the free market that is the enemy. It's the monopoly capitalists/corporatists that are the enemy.
JoKo203 6 days ago
Love this guy!
supafly1954 1 month ago
One of the things I have to disagree with. The federal reserve is just a central bank all or a lot of countries have a central bank we get rid of ours and we give ourselves a handicap and pretty much kill our dollar.
fds9931 1 month ago
@fds9931 that's such a childish thinking I don't even know how to answer this. To borrow money you need to save. In currency managed by central bank that link is micromanaged to fuck savers and reward borrowers. It creates impression that there are more resources to pay for projects than there really are and bust comes. Central banking (with fractional reserve) was meant to cure "cancer" - booms and busts. What it did was almost killing the patient itself - created more booms and busts.
mootant 1 month ago
@fds9931 The dollar is already getting killed. We're just waiting for the death throes to end.
thoth81 1 month ago
Ben Bernanke made 15 YouTube accounts so he could dislike this 15 times.
baller84milw 1 month ago
when someone removes the cancer what do you replace it with......
cray32 1 month ago 2
"If the gov't had taken the bailout money, and given it every person in America, each person would have obtained an estimated $3,000. Instead, we gave it to the banks to prevent a recession that came shortly after anyway." - Dr. Ron Paul
How can you read that and still say libertarians are crazy?
koolkamel322 2 months ago 19
@koolkamel322 I read it would have been approximately $130k if re-distributed (ugh I know) just to American homeowners......that would have ended the housing/mortgage/foreclosure crisis right there in its tracks. Sure it's the wrong thing to do but at least it would have gotten results.
ljs96076 1 month ago
@koolkamel322 Pretty simple. If you go against what the government says is best, you're a nutjob. That's the extent of the logic on that side of the debate.
drewmandan 1 month ago
@koolkamel322 they think immigrants come here for handouts. you honestly think a poor villager in el salvador, mexico, guatmala, etc. is thinking to himself "YO HOMES, YOU DOWN FOR A VACATION OR WHAT, ESE?"
It's a risky decision that often times requires you to abandon your family in your home country. Whoever honestly believes that immigrants (especially dark skinned immigrants) have it easy, is FOOLING themselves.
erik4727 1 month ago
@erik4727 All the immigrants are leaving now because the american dream is dead and there are increasingly better opportunities in their home countries.
htiberian 1 month ago
@htiberian the hate remains
erik4727 1 month ago
@koolkamel322 Yes, and not only that, we would have spent that $3000 thus putting it back into the economy.
supafly1954 1 month ago
@koolkamel322 Because of all the other crazy things he says. His overseas policies are just unbelievable and dangerous, beyond words. Plus the drug legalization, no moral standards, which every country needs... and on and on
jcapist 1 month ago
@jcapist Drug legalization IS the moral choice. How can I not be trusted with my own body? I think YOU are crazy.
CurseOf94 3 weeks ago
@jcapist Oh, and it is just SOOOOOO dangerous to stop throwing away money in never-ending wars..... Why don't you look up the debt clock and educate yourself, fool. You'd rather us go the way of the Roman empire... Have you ever actually read a history textbook? Of course not.
CurseOf94 3 weeks ago
The FED is privately owned. It is unconstitutional, and it is not likely to be dissolved without a great deal of effort.
Firehorse40 2 months ago
Volker was the best Federal Reserve chairman in the last 60 years. He didn't make the mistake of putting too much money in the system as Greenspan did.
dreamingWisdom 2 months ago
Peter Robinson sound so patronizing. I'am the Big white man, listen to me boy.
comptonproduction 2 months ago
That's why Ron Paul is the best choice for 2012
cooolabdul 2 months ago
Thomas Sowell is the best!
ImhoffInstruments 2 months ago
@ImhoffInstruments he's the best what. jerk-off.
comptonproduction 2 months ago
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ImhoffInstruments 2 months ago
@comptonproduction Do you really feel the Federal Reserve has been a good institution?
ImhoffInstruments 2 months ago
@ImhoffInstruments Who cares. it's nothing you can do about it. Thomas sowell is a disgrace to the good people of North Carolina. and Black people.
comptonproduction 2 months ago
@comptonproduction Obviously I can't do anything about it, but that's the question in the video. I'm saying I like his views on the Federal Reserve.
ImhoffInstruments 2 months ago
@ImhoffInstruments It's people like Peter Robinson and Thomas Sowell that we have the Federal Reserve in the first place. Everybody wants something for nothing. The susposely educated wants to be payed some huge amount of money. for what. running there mouth. if the stake their life that what they say is true I might believe them.
comptonproduction 2 months ago
@comptonproduction I'm not really sure what you were trying to say there, but again, do you think the Federal Reserve is a decent institution? I like Ron Paul better than Sowell anyway.
ImhoffInstruments 2 months ago
@ImhoffInstruments lol you're arguing with someone who is clinically insane. Don't waste your time on him.
gshooting 2 months ago 2
@gshooting Haha maybe you're right
ImhoffInstruments 2 months ago
@ImhoffInstruments I don't give a fuc*** about the Federal Reserve. It's idiots like Uncle Tom Sowell that is the problem. People like Uncle Tom Sowell come up BS like the Federal Reserve.
comptonproduction 2 months ago
@comptonproduction Sowell wouldn't have allowed the Federal Reserve to come into existence. What are you spouting on about?
dreamingWisdom 2 months ago
@dreamingWisdom Uncle Tom Sowell is a lap dog for the elite in america. You think he gives a flying fuc*** about some federal reserve. The only thing he cares about is money and power. you get power from kissing rich white folks. don't you understand anything.
comptonproduction 2 months ago
@comptonproduction I guess you say that about every libertarian and Austrian and Chicago school economists if you base that charge on his stance on economic philosophy.
dreamingWisdom 2 months ago
@dreamingWisdom Economics is a Bunch of garbage. If you believe in that crap, then I a swanp land to sell you in the Everglades and The London Bridge too.
comptonproduction 2 months ago
@comptonproduction You mean the elite in America that benefit from their buddies in the Federal Reserve giving them TRILLIONS in bailouts? Those are "rich white folks" he's AGAINST. Get informed so you don't embarrass yourself, idiot.
thoth81 1 month ago
in 1907 there was a lot more options and you can feed a family of 4 for less than 2$ and there was a huge labor force no outsourcing of jobs and no technology thats why i hate it when thomas uses his historian skills to solve current economic issues
hapz3000 2 months ago
Market forces are smarter than a central commissar that sets rates, etc for us. Freedom, not govt.
pismo10 3 months ago
@ Mondo Beno, in reading about the men that you list, I find that it was to their advantage to pump monies into schools and universities to benefit themselves and not society at large.
Because of these men we have the failed public school system we have today. Indoctrinated instead of reasoning and analyzing.
2ruthforu 3 months ago
People, this video only has 18,496 views as of the time of this writing. I implore you to spread this around as much as possible. Every thinking/voting person in the United States of America needs to hear this man speak, and speak clearly.
JaredJosephHoag 3 months ago
J.P. Morgan may have been something of a robber baron, but like most millionaires of the time (Carnegie, Rockefeller, Ford, Vanderbilt, Whitney, Guggenheim) he felt a sense of accountability to the nation. These guys put huge piles of cash into schools, universities, libraries, and hospitals.
They also did it without government bailouts.
MondoBeno 4 months ago 14
@MondoBeno Adolf hittler was a vegetarian
TruthWithinRange 2 months ago
@MondoBeno
Which is what Warren Buffet and Bill Gates do today.
And is the RIGHT thing to do.
tubub 1 month ago
@MondoBeno Corporations no longer do that.
erik4727 1 month ago
@MondoBeno True, but you have to remember that it was some of those same guys who invented the Creature from Jekyll Island (a.k.a. the Federal Reserve). Whether they truly wanted to stabilize the economy or wanted monopolistic control over the money supply is a question worth asking.
orange11emilie 1 month ago
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"We have, in this country, one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board. This evil institution has impoverished the people of the United States and has practically bankrupted our government. It has done this through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it". — Congressman Louis T. McFadden in 1932 (Rep. Pa)"
ForeignPerson1 4 months ago
replace it with nothing! let the free market determine the money!
orangebubs 5 months ago
LIBERTARIANMONARCHY . COM
ecnerwal999 7 months ago
I like Sowell a lot, but I don't like his quote at the end. In other places he often says that the easiest way to defeat leftist arguments is to ask, "compared to what?" I wish he would be consistent and see that he needs to apply that to his own arguments.
wjb45958 7 months ago
@wjb45958 I agree. He should've offered a solution. He is very consistent with offering ideas, but he never suggested a solution for what he would do after he abolished the gold standard - if you watch the video it sounds like he's holding something else back. The only way to prevent great inflation is to go back to the gold standard and I know he knows it. On another note - this guy is a genius. I watch his videos everyday, repeatedly. Kinda creepy :I
ahhhitsjay 7 months ago
@ahhhitsjay I can't speak for Sowell, but my guess is he didn't give a specific solution because he doesn't believe it should be his or any other individuals role to determine what works in a barter system. If pressed further he probably would say that the replacement would be chosen by the free market over time. Historically the market has chosen gold and that's probably what would happen again.
awholtzapple 7 months ago 2
We support all these socialist countries that are getting bailed out by the IMF and World bank. Our hard work goes to support 30 hour work weeks and retirement at age 50 in Europe. They get a quarter of the year off work while we work our asses off to support their lavish benefits. Now everyone can see what "one world government" is all about...
jamo387 9 months ago
The Ponzi scheme Fed stole $8.4 TRILLION from the auctions of Treasury securities last year. Congress never asked about it. It is embezzlement that is leading to national bankruptcy. The wealth of the nation is transferred to "financiers." Ref. 3w scribd dot com message 49040689.
oldereb38 9 months ago
Power should never be in the hands of so few people. Our founders knew this when they limited the federal government's power and created the three rings of government each checking the powers of the other (when it functions correctly and the voters are "wise and moral" ...so much for that).
Decentralize the money supply and back it with tangible assets (gold, silver,oil, etc). Remember, a dollar is a receipt for tangible wealth. When they decouple it from the asset, all you have is paper.
jamo387 9 months ago
@jamo387
"Decentralize the money supply and back it with tangible assets (gold, silver,oil, etc). Remember, a dollar is a receipt for tangible wealth. When they decouple it from the asset, all you have is paper."
I wish more American people would realize this & how dangerous this is for them. That's why there's a conscious effort on the part of establishment to hide Ron Paul from the American masses who's the only one talking about real issues.
lomocan 9 months ago
@lomocan I would say all you can do is get involved - join your local tea party and expose the MSM for the leftist establishment scumbags that they are.
jamo387 9 months ago
I did a search for "Thomas Sowell on Ron Paul" & this is what came up. With all the things going on since the 2008 elections & nobody bothered to ask what Sowell thinks about Paul.
KenMacMillan 9 months ago
@KenMacMillan
Well, Sowell did release article last time during primaries I believe & addressed almost every other candidate but NOT Ron Paul so I don't think Sowell is as much of a "free marketer" or "libertarian" as he claims to be but I've admit, this is one of the best interviews by a "mainstream" economist on Fed. Not to mention, the ending was classic :)
lomocan 9 months ago
@lomocan I looked around a little & I think it's because he disagrees with Paul's foreign policy.
KenMacMillan 9 months ago
@KenMacMillan I think Sowell would like Dr Paul and vice versa EXCEPT in the area of foreign policy where Sowell is truly conservative and Paul is truly libertarian.
jamo387 9 months ago
@jamo387 Isn't that what I said?
KenMacMillan 9 months ago
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@KenMacMillan you said this:
I did a search for "Thomas Sowell on Ron Paul" & this is what came up. With all the things going on since the 2008 elections & nobody bothered to ask what Sowell thinks about Paul."
jamo387 8 months ago
OMG greatest quote ever at the end. Someone write that down... nevermind, i will do it, to make sure it gets done :D
absolutroot 10 months ago 29
Replace it with discarded plastic bags; that would clear out the landfills.
herviews 11 months ago
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KenMacMillan 11 months ago
thanks to federal reserve the economy still sound otherwise the economy in the hands of republicans and demos would put everyone into starvation
SuperAlexrios 11 months ago
@SuperAlexrios Thanks to the federal reserve, we have created high inflation, booms, and bust cycles. Thanks to the federal reserve we are in the mess we are in today. Quantitative Easing is very dangerous and hyper-inflation is the most destructive disease known to modern societies, there is nothing which will destroy a society so thoroughly and so fully, as letting inflation run high. The Fed transfers wealth from main street to wall street and is a private bank. You need to wakeup
AroundSun 10 months ago 23
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@AroundSun You too fucking stupid for words. Even dumber than the nigger Sowell. Hyper inflation? CPI all items in July 2008 was 219.964. CPI all items in July 2011 was 225.922. That is an annual rate of inflation of .8% over 3 years.
You stupid schmuck.
RONPAULFREEDUMB 5 months ago
@RONPAULFREEDUMB Let me guess, you are a big government economically illiterate democrat who hasn't lost all credibility with the federal reserve or the CBO. Obama can do no wrong and we are not in a bad financial situation. You blame everything on George Bush from bad weather to a bird shitting on your car... is this about right?? Now Sowell is dumb?! HAHAHAHAHA WOW. Tell me then genius why gold is at a record all time high every other day? Maybe...THE DOLLAR IS COLLAPSING?? Dumb dick
AroundSun 5 months ago 2
@RONPAULFREEDUMB you should kill your self you fucking racist cunt bag. Faggot.
xHippieHunter 4 months ago 2
@AroundSun
No, I must disagree. Inflation is a difficult problem, and hyper-inflation even more so is NOT the great spectre to fear. The ultimate fear is the propensity for an economy to enter into a deflationary spiral that can result in non-spending cycles that will ultimately destroy and economy. QE is an attempt to push the economy into inflated territory that prompts more spending . Japan didn't do QE early enough, and it obliterated their economy; so much so they recovered from deflation
bigollameo 4 months ago
@bigollameo No..You see, we have a private central bank that has the privilege of issuing its' own currency. A secretive private bank that holds no accountability to ANYONE. Congress can not even audit. You say hyperinflation isn't a problem? Tell that to the citizens who held the continental dollar. Tell that to Germany, France, Zimbabwe, etc...Zimbabwe was printing out $100,000,000 notes before they finally collapsed. Keep believing in those Keynesian remedies LMFAO...
AroundSun 4 months ago
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@SuperAlexrios
"thanks to federal reserve the economy still sound otherwise the economy in the hands of republicans and demos would put everyone into starvation"
Well, it has been in the hands of Reps & Dems, well, actually Reps & Dems are bought by the same people that run Fed from the background. Most politicians like Fed because apart from the money they'd get, it allows them continue their welfare & warfare that gets them votes as Fed monetizes the debt.
lomocan 9 months ago
LOL@the last line...the journalist felt silly by the end of this video.
Thomas Sowell, you are a respectable individual.
EriPages 11 months ago 3
This guy is one smart MFer
Maup8257 11 months ago
Lolllll... I may have to think in realtime, not something journalists do very often
disamjisa 11 months ago
Go Thomas Sowell! :-) I didn't know he was anti-Fed, though I've always respected him as a conservative/libertarian
disamjisa 11 months ago
LOL, "when someone removes a cancer, what do you replace it with?" BRILLIANT! Simply brilliant
tatsumakisempyukaku 1 year ago
@tatsumakisempyukaku : It was a good one alright. He's brilliant with words, and it perfectly describes the federal reserve.
MaxTallon 1 year ago
You replace the cancer with a resource based economy. A resource-based economy would utilize existing resources from the land and sea, physical equipment, industrial plants, etc. to enhance the lives of the total population. In an economy based on resources rather than money, we could easily produce all of the necessities of life and provide a high standard of living for all. This is what the Venus Project talks about. I would advise all who wants to see a change in the world to look into it.
MatsKaarbo 1 year ago
@MatsKaarbo I just looked into the Venus Project. I would like to ask you a question; if not for the price system, which system will allocate scarce resources that have alternative uses?
laborwage 11 months ago
@laborwage A resource based economy would. This system monitors all the knows resources on earth and automatically regulates the access to scarce resources, so that the scarce resources get time to re build so to speak. Sorry for my bad English. Another point would be that everything that we build and grow would be built with the purpose of recycling. So that nothing goes to waste, unlike what we see in this society. I hope this answers your question.
MatsKaarbo 11 months ago
@MatsKaarbo Your English is just fine. My confusion is with HOW the resource based economy can allocate scarce resources which have alternative uses. How does such an economy deal with knowledge? That is, how is it that resources go to one time and place in a certain quantity or quality? How are resource demands communicated, and how are these demands weighed against alternative demands for the same resources elsewhere in the economy?
laborwage 11 months ago
@laborwage First of all, we would need to take a survey of all the resources on the planet to figure out what we have and what we can use. Then the knowledge of scarce resource would be regulated and communicated by a global cybernated system that monitors all the resources on earth in real time. This system will essentially evaluate and weigh demands on behave of what resources are available at any given time, not what we think is best.
MatsKaarbo 11 months ago
@MatsKaarbo This may sound like cold science, but when you think about it, it really makes sense. Having an objective view point based on what we have and not what we don't have is really the only way to keep the balance we need in a sustainable society. I would love too give you detailed explanations of how it all works, but I simply don't have the technical knowledge. But I hope this answered your question, if not don't hesitate to keep asking.
MatsKaarbo 11 months ago
@MatsKaarbo Unfortunately it does not sound like a science at all. Attempting to quantify resource quantity without integrating extraction costs is 1.) Not a good idea from the perspective of eventual allocation and 2.) Is a process that requires continuous recalculation, even if extraction costs are integrated.
Also, why do this with one computer system if you can do it with millions, as is done today? Can one computer possibly do all the calculations that millions can do?
laborwage 11 months ago
@laborwage You know, the technical aspects of this is really not my strong side. I hear your points and I know these would be much appreciated if you questioned them either to Jacque Fresco directly or Roxanne Meadows which has worked with him for several decades. You can find their e-mail addresses on The Venus Project official website. As for the 'one computer system', I really meant a global computer system that would of course utilize enough power from several million computers in every city
MatsKaarbo 11 months ago
@MatsKaarbo Again, sorry for my bad English... I would suggest to look into some of the interviews with Jacque Fresco talking about The Venus Project and a resource based economy here on YouTube. You should also check out 'Future by Design' from 2006 featuring Jacque Fresco where he explains all about The Venus Project. Also! Check out the Zeitgeist: Addendum and Zeitgeist: Moving Forward which feature Jacque Fresco talking about the resource based economy. I hope this helps!
MatsKaarbo 11 months ago
@MatsKaarbo Hmmmm.... when you say "we have and what we can use," who do you mean?
laborwage 11 months ago
@laborwage We as in all humans. The Venus Project don't believe in any government, political parties or any leader for that matter that would take decisions as we have today. Of course in the transition to a resource based economy there would be need for scientists and engineers that could build machines that would take care of the rest. Other than that, all humans are one. There is no class, no leaders, and no decision makers. If you look into it, you would see what I am talking about.
MatsKaarbo 11 months ago
@MatsKaarbo Well, the machines would need maintainance, right? Who would attend to that? Would the machines instruct people in how to build homes and grow food? Who would transport the resources in the economy? How would they know where and when to show up for work?
And doesn't the existence of machines that control every resource flow decision provide a very easy route to corruption?
laborwage 11 months ago
@laborwage With the technology we have to day we know that approx 90% of all jobs can be taken over by machines. So yes, we still need to maintenance until we can make machines that can repair themselves, which I actually thing is right around the corner. Machines would only relieve us from jobs and labor and bring us the necessities of life, not making decision.
MatsKaarbo 11 months ago
@MatsKaarbo "With the technology we have to day we know that approx 90% of all jobs can be taken over by machines." Do you have any evidence to support this view?
And what if people built replicating machines that demanded more resources themselves? How would you decide who owns those machines? How would you deal the population?
Has this system been tried on a smaller scale?
Do the founders support alternative systems, or can theirs be the only one on the planet?
laborwage 11 months ago
@laborwage Do you have any evidence to support this view?
Both Jacque Fresco and Peter Joseph has talked to scientists and engineers in the automation machine business and have gotten this both well explained and well documented before stating this. I believe that Peter Joesph the director of the Zeitgeist film series did put up a source page to support what he states in his films and. You would probably need to look it up on thezeitgeistmovie. com webpage for this information.
MatsKaarbo 11 months ago
@MatsKaarbo The Zeitgeist? Oh, the 9-11 conspiracy movie? Cool story, bro.
When Jacque Fresco and his followers produce all of the machines required and give birth to a small society with a standard of living such as they promise, I'll be interested. But if they want ALL OF THE EARTH'S PEOPLE do drop everything they are doing and participate in a poorly thought-out social experiment, this sounds like a pathway to potential mass starvation...
laborwage 11 months ago
@laborwage "The Zeitgeist? Oh, the 9-11 conspiracy movie?"
The Zeitgeist film series talks about more than just the 9/11 conspiracy. It talks about how religion and the monetary based system is corrupt and has been used to control people. I highly recommend these as well, if your interested in the resource based economy. Cause these films talk about whats essentially wrong with the current system we live in.
MatsKaarbo 11 months ago
@laborwage Has this system been tried on a smaller scale?
Not yet, but both Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows livelihood is based on this vision. You can see this in depth in 'Future by Design'
Do the founders support alternative systems, or can theirs be the only one on the planet?
The system that Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows advocate is simply a proposition. It's not a final utopia, cause there is no such thing. You can only make the 'best' with what you know right now.
MatsKaarbo 11 months ago
@laborwage ...and the great thing about machines is that they can work non-stop 24/7 all year. I am not talking about human-like-machines who walks around and showing up for work. It will be stationed machines like the once car factories have.
Keep in mind that machines is man made, they don't think for themselves and they have no ambitions. They do what we tell them to do. If I throw a laptop in front of 50 other laptops they wouldn't care. So you see there would be no corruption.
MatsKaarbo 11 months ago
@MatsKaarbo Yes, but who designs the machines? Could they not be corrupt and keep the better machines for themselves? And stationary machines cannot accomplish even a small percentile of the work necessary in a complex economy. If you want machines to accomplish such feats as you ask of them, you need to give them motivations and intelligences. How could unintelligent machines possibly put a dent into the resource allocation problem?
laborwage 11 months ago
@laborwage Yes, but who designs the machines?
Jacque Fresco has actually worked almost his whole life on this project where he has designed and worked out the engineering of the machines. He himself has worked as a industrial designer and social engineer his whole life, so he has obviously an in-depth in these things.
For the remaining questions, I suggest watching 'Future by Design' with Jacque Fresco talking about these things. Also check out interviews of him here on YouTube.
MatsKaarbo 11 months ago
@MatsKaarbo So he hasn't built anything that allocates resources yet? And thank you, I will check out the videos.
laborwage 11 months ago
@laborwage Well, actually he has. I am sorry for not explaining this well enough. But, it's essentially the computer based core in every city that we've been talking about that regulates this.
You're welcome. I am glad you found it interesting and I hope the films and interviews will give you better answers and much more depth and insights! :)
MatsKaarbo 11 months ago
@laborwage ...but, if you thought about corruption regarding to humans there would simply be no reason for that. Think about it. If you have all the necessities you need in life and it is the technology that allows you to sustain that life style, would you really mess that up?
Again, I suggest you watch 'Future by Design' and 'Zeitgeist: Addendum' and 'Zeitgeist: Moving Forward' to really see the difference between the monetary based economy and a resource based economy.
MatsKaarbo 11 months ago
@MatsKaarbo "If you have all the necessities you need in life and it is the technology that allows you to sustain that life style, would you really mess that up?"
OF COURSE!!!! People have a complex human nature, and selfish ambitions are a big part of it. People are survival machines for replicators, both genetic and memetic. Given the opportunity and sufficient time, people grab as much power as they can. No society has ever escaped this.
laborwage 11 months ago
@MatsKaarbo STFU you idiot
ikambor 11 months ago
Comment removed
MatsKaarbo 11 months ago
@ikambor I would replace it with CLAMS and SEA SHELLS
ikambor 11 months ago
@MatsKaarbo You're talking about communism. Don't believe everything you see in Zeitgeist.
KenMacMillan 9 months ago
@KenMacMillan The root causes of all aberrant behavior like stealing, violence and even murder is caused by the monetary-based system that we live in. That's because we need money in order to survive and if we don't have any other choice, we do those things. A resource-based economy gives the people what they need without the use of money and labor. Therefor there will be no corruption or stealing or murder over things they get for free. Communism operates within a monetary-based economy...
MatsKaarbo 9 months ago
@MatsKaarbo All human behavior aberrant or not, is found in other species in nature. Orangutans rape, chimpanzees steal & murder, etc. Since we're the only one that uses money the premise of your conclusion is false. People do what they do for their own reasons which may or may not include money which is nothing more than a medium of exchange. The only thing that would change in a resource based economy is the justifications for the crimes committed.
KenMacMillan 9 months ago
Any idea that having all the necessities of life would make crime go away completely ignores crimes committed by people who already have all the necessities of life. In fact if everyone had all the necessities of life handed to them they would have more free time to rape, rob, & torture people if they were so inclined. This is nothing more than a hypothetical situation anyway because resources are limited & the overseers of such an economy would have no choice but to ration those resources out.
KenMacMillan 9 months ago
That puts the 3% of "volunteers" talked about in Zeitgeist: Moving Forward in control of all the world's resources & in a position of immense power. Some might even call them elitists. Who will want those jobs, the nicest people in the community or the power hungry? How does one get that job? Do they have to qualify or do they get elected? Who qualifies, the friends & family of the people already in power? Besides, nobody takes care of things that they don't own which means more waste.
KenMacMillan 9 months ago
This is Zeitgeist.
com·mu·nism
1.
a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.
Remove the spaces
htt p : // dictionary.reference. com/browse/communism
KenMacMillan 9 months ago
@KenMacMillan Again, communism still uses money in their system that perpetuate corruption, greed, inequality, classes and leaders. Non of this will be in a resource-based economy, because their is no money involved. You have to remember that a RBE is not just a systems approach, but it's a train of thought as well. We need to acknowledge that we live on a finite planet with finite resources and that we need to live together in accordance with nature in order to survive as a species.
MatsKaarbo 9 months ago
@MatsKaarbo
Perhaps you believe in posting comments without reading others but here's what KenMacMillen said
"Any idea that having all the necessities of life would make crime go away completely ignores crimes committed by people who already have all the necessities of life."
So tell me, if scarcity is what causes crime then what about "evil bankers" that control the whole system, they're already VERY RICH? What about white-collar criminals?
lomocan 9 months ago
@lomocan It depends on what you define as 'evil'. Bankers are victims of society just as everybody else. They are born into an environment/system, by rich parents already owning banks in this case, that encourage and brainwash them to think that owning the 'fruits of life' are a good thing and that they need to perpetuate and protect that that fortune because they are the god sent. This is the reality in a lot of rich communities around US. Are they evil? Obviously not.
MatsKaarbo 9 months ago
@MatsKaarbo Check out this documentary for the source of what I state.
/watch?v=MCNKn7JirBU&feature=player_embedded
MatsKaarbo 9 months ago
@MatsKaarbo Like I said, money doesn't cause crime, people cause crime. It's an empirically verifiable fact. You seem to think that the people in control of the resources would somehow not want the best resources for themselves or their friends & family. Reality proves otherwise.
KenMacMillan 9 months ago
@KenMacMillan ...but when you look at the motivation behind crime, it's always monetary related. This is being confirmed by psychiatrists all over the world. Nobody is born criminal. It's the environment that breeds crime and money is a part of that environment. Crime is also a negatively charged word that derives from the laws that we create within a monetary-based system so that corruption is being controlled by the law makers and the bankers.
/watch?v=MCNKn7JirBU&feature=player_embedded
MatsKaarbo 9 months ago
@MatsKaarbo
You say scarcity causes crime but that's OBVIOUSLY NOT TRUE as even rich people with no scarcity issues commit crime while not all poor people living in scarcity commit crime.
Then you say money causes crime but the simple fact is that crime existed well before "money" was invented.
These are EXACTLY the kind of things marx, stalin, lenin, mao told people about, about utopic paradises but we all know how they always end, the "creators" of these "visions" become dictators.
lomocan 9 months ago
@lomocan 95% of all crime is monetary related. Rich people are indoctrinated into the system to perpetuate their fortune by doing illegal business with bankers and investors that only benefit them. They believe this is the right thing to do. Does that make them criminal in their dictionary? The other 5% of crime is due to jealousy and personal problems which again can be traced back the stressors of the monetary-based system.
MatsKaarbo 9 months ago
@lomocan ...but Marx, Stalin, Lenin and Mao never had any solutions for ending poverty, war, corruption, inequality and unjust. Their frame of reference came from the system they where indoctrinated into, the monetary-based system.
However, The Venus Project (Jacque Fresco) has a solution for all these problems, because he thinks outside the box unlike all the politicians today that only perpetuate this ancient old system we live in.
MatsKaarbo 9 months ago
@MatsKaarbo
Seriously pal, READ others' comments > "the simple fact is that crime existed well before "money" was invented"
No one who believes in individuals' right to their life, liberty & property is going to fall for Fresco's rehashed communism; it just looks nice to here but ultimately it's enforcement requires breaching of people's freedoms & eventually people revolt after they've suffered enough. No sane person will agree to Fresco's communism run by technocrats.
lomocan 9 months ago
@lomocan Well, I have to ask. You do know that money is just another way of exchanging goods between people like the gold standard was before it, right? And perhaps many other ways has been used to exchange goods in the past even before the gold standard. I don't know the full history here. But I hope you see my point. I've also addressed that the other 5% of crime, if you've read my comments.
How is what Fresco propose anything near communism? Please enlighten me.
MatsKaarbo 9 months ago
@MatsKaarbo
Then get acquinted with how & why money evolved naturally > tinyurl(dot)com/3ppjz7d <
As for Fresco,he's advocating everything that communists advocated,one example is his belief that "greed" can be "cured:" thru social engineering which communists tried & failed miserably even though basic psychology will tell you organisms are driven by perceived self-interest. I suggest you learn BASIC economics at mises.org & you'll see why such demagoguery is destructive to EVERYONE
lomocan 9 months ago
@lomocan Thanks for the suggestions, I will check it out.
Communism still uses money though, which ultimately breeds greed. The power of consuming becomes a naturally driving force when we live in a competitive world and everyone wants what everybody else has. What Fresco is advocating is a money-less society and thus greed perish. We get more focused on what we need and not what we want - that is the only way if we are ought to be sustainable for future generations.
MatsKaarbo 9 months ago
@MatsKaarbo
Communism can exist with or WITHOUT money,money is irrelevant to existence comunism,its main theme is that every individual is slave to the collective & the state & that everyone should be guarenteed some goods/services without them having to work for it. Please read the link I've given & understand what money is. It's NOT that people desire money but rather they desrire REAL WEALTH ie goods/service that money can buy; money is a just mediator for "coincidence of wants" (google it)
lomocan 9 months ago
Comment removed
MatsKaarbo 9 months ago
@MatsKaarbo
Fresco's utopia would at best be communism without money. It's the MARKET that determines what people need & want thru its pricing system, labor, capital, resources are directed accordingly; without a market, it'll be central-planners who'll decide what's "needed" who eventually become dictators; this is how every communist/socialist-utopia ends.
Further, what's wrong with freedom? What's wrong with people having right to their life,liberty & property & keeping what they EARN?
lomocan 9 months ago
@lomocan First of all, there is nothing such as an Utopia. Read carefully the definition of it. Certainly a RBE is not an Utopia, because it is uses of the scientific method which says that we can only create the "best" thing up to the point of our present knowledge until some new idea comes up and makes it better. Let's take laptops for example. The best laptop out on the market right now, will be surpassed within a mount. This is how the scientific method works and would work in a RBE.
MatsKaarbo 9 months ago
@MatsKaarbo
Ok,let's see, he's talking of a crimeless society where most people don't need to work & they can do whatever they want with their time & still live a good life....hmmm....yup, that's a utopia he's promising, just like every other communist/socialist dictator has promised before taking over the country.
And who decides what is "best" & what is to be created, don't tell me "people", no, people as whole don't agree on $hit; you know what technocratic central-planners will.
lomocan 9 months ago
@lomocan Second of all, in a RBE it would be the PEOPLE who would determines what they need. RBE also uses A.I computer systems in factories and distribution systems that can produce goods and food in accordance to what nature has to offer. There is no leader, politician, or central-planners who decides who gets what. It's the common sense of using machines to allocate the resources we have available in a responsibility way so that we can be sustainable.
MatsKaarbo 9 months ago
@MatsKaarbo
"it would be the PEOPLE who would determines what they need"
Yeah, just like "people" determine who they want as govt in democracies & yet, always get a corrupt governance, people do NOT decide anything as a whole & since resoureces are scarce without a central-planner, such system will waste resources; resources will always seem limited & thus there's the question distribution. Further, machines need to be CREATED & nobody's going to work hard without expecting a return
lomocan 9 months ago
@lomocan ...and the free market system we have today rely on infinite resources on the planet which we don't have...
There is nothing wrong with freedom. But, do you really think you are free in this society? We are the only species that uses money. We are the only species that most of us goes to jobs we don't like and can't pay our huge debt that makes us stressed and depressed. We are the only species that wage wars against each other while we should all live with each other.
MatsKaarbo 9 months ago
@MatsKaarbo
Well, I'm not as free as I'd like to be but I'm willing to work towards a better thing BASED ON FREEDOM of life, liberty & property, NOT some technocratic cornucopia that someone proposes just like so many had in the past only to end in massacre 100s of millions in the name of "curing greed & making a better world".
We're the only species that wage wars???????? You're kidding me, right? Resources are limited & I believe in people EARNING their living, not in empty day-dreams.
lomocan 9 months ago
@lomocan When you say " like so many had in the past only to end in massacre 100's million in the name of curing greed and making a better world. What do you think western white civilization has been doing and continue to do the past 600yrs to today all over this planet.
arronnov 4 months ago
@lomocan Communism can't exist without money, cause then the system can't work. Communism is based on the same principles as capitalism, which requires people to consume and to do that they need money and to get money they need to work. In a RBE where 95% of all labor is replaced and automated by machines and intelligent allocation of scarce resources is being taking in consideration, people wouldn't have to go to their repetitive, boring jobs but instead do stuff they really want to do.
MatsKaarbo 9 months ago
@MatsKaarbo
Communism doesn't've anything to do with money, it's concerned with equal distribution of goods/services irrespective of the value & work done by each individual, it's a day-dream of freeloaders. People have to work because there's no cornucopia, even machines need to made & repaired & monitored & of course, they can be controlled so those 5% who control them become de facto rulers as they control the whole supply-chain & there's no need for them to let other 95% to leech them.
lomocan 9 months ago
@MatsKaarbo
Ok, let me propose a society, every person has a right to his life, liberty & property; people are free to do whatever they want SO LONG AS they don't violate other people's rights, & of course, people keep what they EARN without violating someone else's rights. All of this based on the simple idea that of FREEDOM.
lomocan 9 months ago
@lomocan You have to remember that the planet is finite. It has finite resources. So everyone can't own a huge villa, a Ferrari and a mini golf track - because we simply don't have the resources to do that. So how is this not violating the people that can't afford that? Of course the poor people wants the same amount of property as the rich people. So technically the rich people are violating the poor peoples rights to posses. But we have law for "stealing", so your argument is invalid.
MatsKaarbo 9 months ago
@MatsKaarbo
Yes, resources are finite & that's why a Fresco's utopic system can't give everyone everything they want & that's where central-planners will come in & decide who gets what & usually, they'll keep most stuff to themselves.
NOBODY has a "right to being rich", you should work for it & EARN it yourself or hope that you turn lucky that someone who has earned it, gives it to you; that's the only FAIR system.
lomocan 9 months ago
@lomocan Not only is your proposal unfair, unequal and unjust, it is also socially offensive to the people that don't have the power of possession. It's really a backwards society. It exploits the resources and is unsustainable. We are capable, with technology, to automate 95% of all jobs, make a system that is sustainable and healthy for the human race and equally share the goods and food between them, where we would be more free than you could possible image, how is this not the way to go?
MatsKaarbo 9 months ago
@MatsKaarbo
EVERYBODY has power of possession, you just need to have to work for it which obviously none of the communists want to.
And tell me why the other 5% would work for the rest? They don't need to. The only reason they might is if they've something to gain from it & turn the rest into slaves; otherwise they'll like kill the all the freeloaders anyway.
Please read basic psychology, humans are largely drive by their perceived self-interests & egos; nothing will change about that.
lomocan 9 months ago
@MatsKaarbo
The idea whole idea of "Fresco's crimeless society" is naive, people don't just commit crime out of scarcity, there're many other reasons like jealousy, mating, status, ego & so on, not to mention NOT ALL poor commit crime.
As I've said, the only fair system would be one where people are free to whatever they want as long they don't violate other people's rights to their life, liberty & property. Trading freedom for a little prosperity doesn't work in the long-run.
lomocan 9 months ago
@lomocan /watch?v=vGSj5Mw9npI&feature=player_embedded
MatsKaarbo 9 months ago
@MatsKaarbo
So you take people for their words, especially those looking to grab power? It doesn't matter what he says it is or isn't, it doesn't negate all the facts I've raised. It's a pipe-dream for those wishing to freeloading slackers, just like communism was; in fact, you should read the communist works & then you'll be able to see clear parallels; even communism talked about a future without money where machines would do everything, etc It's just rehashed communism.
lomocan 9 months ago