thank you but how to setup pa with 2 amps 2 mains and 2 subs Id like to bridge teh subs and the mains to a snake its a bit confusing im deslixic and need simple diagram or driection thank you..
thank you but how to setup pa with 2 amps 2 mains and 2 subs Id like to bridge teh subs and the mains to a snake its a bit confusing im deslixic and need simple diagram or driection thanks you..
There are 2 main reasons for setting Gain Structure (GS) - optimizing sound quality and minimizing damage potential to amps and speakers. Shure has a great publication on this but it involves using an oscilloscope. Having your faders and master at max will achieve the first better than how he describes. That way you have confidence when using the board you can use the entire travel of the fader without clipping which you should avoid until you're very experienced & know what u can get away with.
1:07 : What does setting the input faders to unity(0) or 5dB above and setting the Master fader to unity or -5db have to do with setting gain??
I mean, we are talking PRE-FADE through the board here, right? otherwise I agree with and practice this procedure, including turning up the amp last.
if you set a gain structure acording to this then you will end up having a master clip. the proper way to set a gain structure ( depending if your band is on ears or wedges) is to get a graphing calculator and type in -10LOG and then how many open chanels you are using. That will tell you what your gain structure needs to be set for every channle and then your master LED lights on the console should read right at unity.
@tuckerdalton Hope that graphing calculator has a spell check. Short story, Channel at unity, master at unity, processor at unity. DONE. That's as clean as it gets, you just ride gain.
I knew a guy who ran excellent sound and I asked him advice, and he told me to max out the master faders and he pointed to them, he had them duck taped so nobody would move them. He must have known what he was talking about because the vocals and mix were always crystal clear.
Mr. Bradford is right for the most part but missed an important rule: the board is the foundation. New soundboards have a handy button on them the PFL button (pre-fader-listen). Use the PFL button to set all channels and yes at the loudest song in the set to unity. That’s before any fader goes up have the band use only the monitors as a loudness reference. Next and the most important thing is the main fader is set at -0- or - 3 depending on what your board calls for and leave it!
@imagepictures close, but unity for the circuit is on the fader. never put a channel fader to above unity unless you have no other choice. You are supplying the circuit with more voltage than nominal and you make the circuit unstable. The theory of clipping and pulling back craps all over the built in head room of your boards channel at unity. Running at unity sounds better and is less likely to feed back. PFL is only a checkpoint, not a benchmark
@danpaolangeli Please check with Allen & Heath or any board manufacture and you will find that I am right. Have you ever wondered why they give you +10 or +12 on the fader? Why not just +5? A channels sensitivity is set at the gain knob, volume is set at the fader and using the PFL allows a more accurate sensitivity setting. That's a fact.
@imagepictures I see what you mean, mister image pictures. However, unless I'm mistaken, it's been the case since the dawn of mixing boards that the 1.23 volts supplied to a channel is given via the fader, not the gain pot. I used to use the PFL to set the gain method seven years ago but after a few years of reading and listening and talking to my touring and grammy winning, and optical physics PhD bearing friends I learned why this is not optimal. Do some research. Its pretty available info.
@danpaolangeli Perhaps I am talking about one thing and you another. Am I wrong? The gain is the pre-amp, it brings the very low voltage signal from the mic up to a level that the amp can use. Now some singers can be very loud and others soft so the gain will vary depending on the mic and the singer. By using the PFL you will have a more precise evaluation of that channel because you can watch what it is doing throughout the song and set it to a peak of -0- or -3 for all channels.
@imagepictures The gain is indeed a potentiometer for the voltage provided by the power rails for the pre-amp- on that you are correct. However proper gain structure depends on setting the gain according to the system being run at unity on the fader. Tonight i stopped in to a venue on the way to my show and took a look at the board. It was set up that night by my uncles bands engineer, a man whom dave grohl from the foo fighters personally calls to tour. Faders at unity accross the board.
@danpaolangeli I have enjoyed this conversation. I see that I have been talking about something a bit different that you. I am a recording engineer. On my Neve desk every channel has a PFL/AFL led meter. I set all my tracks gain to peak at -0-. Depending on the song and the part of the song, I might have the guitar at -10 or as high as +5 all in one song. I don't worry about feedback and I think that is what you are talking about; balance from pre to fader to amp. Right? Thanks again, Pete
@danpaolangeli The fader sitting at unity is essentially doing nothing - neither cutting nor boosting the pre-amp. So it's wrong to say that it's "supplying 1.23V to the channel." It's also wrong to say that this has been since the dawn of mixers - why do you think the reference is 1.23V at unity (+4dBu) rather than 0.775V (0dBu)? It's for historical reasons, due to improvements in tape bias requiring hotter outputs.
I know everyone's going to hate on me, but if you have an irresponsible DJ who's going to redline the mixer anyway, it's probably better to set the clip point of the amp to the clip point of the desk ;)
@StuballScramble Tell the DJ this- "I'm having a lot of trouble getting the sound right out front. I think I might be getting a bit too much signal. Is it possible if you pull back your outputs a bit?" Chances are, he wants his shit to sound as good as possible. If this is a theory question, clipping your amps will send DC to your speakers and blow them up. Clipping your board just sounds like doodoo. If you are really running that hard, highpass the mains at 80 and stuff in your earplugs.
@danpaolangeli DJs don't ever listen though. It's fine if you're going to be at the gig babysitting all night, but if not drastic action has to be taken. Crap DJs redline the mixers always, regardless of the actual volume or sound quality on the dancefloor. And the chances of a modern amp delivering DC to speakers due to clipping is pretty slim.
@StuballScramble NOT ALL DJ ARE THE SAME.. I keep my red lights off... on my mixer 2 channels lol. then I raise the master on my mixer to about 60 or 70, open up my 2mics, stand on the middle of the dance floor and increase the gain on all my all amps. till I get feed back, then i back it up a few DBs and is done... go back to my mixer and lower the master to about 1. now i know the loudest i can play is 6 or 7 on my master lever...hope Im doing it right... correct me on what im wrong. thanks
@ladjkaoz the microphones in the middle of the floor wont be helping, if not making it worse. if you have your amp cranked and ur music as loud as it can go the mics arent going to be doing much other then reducing signal quality
You could turn the amps all the way up and the master on the board down if you didn't want to HEAR anything. Turn your amps all the way up. Thats where the CLEAN power is. DO NOT set your Master or channels above unity gain. And whatever you do, do not try to learn anything from expert village.
why is it that numerous sound guys dont use or have knowledge of setting trim with pfl? also sound guys that dont use headphones, i dont know they do it.
Power amps all the way up! Free gain! Most board's preamps are going to be rather lack-luster anyway, so no need in trying to squeeze out every ounce of volume you can from the channels if your power amps are only sitting half-open
@ThePAngel23 for the same reason you commented this dumb ass, go and study a bit more... the day you learn how to set the drive rack PA system come and talk... idiot noob...
@ironslalyica you still a dumb asshole. like i said before. if you claim you know all this stuff then why are you on here bashing people who do want to learn about this stuff? faggot.
@ThePAngel23 haha take it easy and go to study some more dude The Drive Rack PA is still waiting... Or... you don't even know how to use a crossover and a compressor????? lol dumbass redneck...
@ironslalyica oops. i put i'm black. i'm half white half black. and your a stupid ass racist and i hope you die you fucking piece of shit. have a lovely day :)
At least this guy dispels the MYTH that the Gain Knobs on the Power Amps MUST be turned fully clockwise(or, "maxed") - 2:15 . He specifically points out that there are MULTIPLE gain points through any PA system - be it Madison Square Garden or a pair of powered EONS and a 12ch board at a street fair. Keep gain through the system above the noisefloor but below clipping/distortion, and there should be no need to "max" any setting in your system!
@Zickcermacity Unless you are running a minuscule system the gains on ALL amps are full out, or have a set input point of 0db (+4dbm) That is true unity gain throughout the entire chain. You are not going to adjust gain on 50 different amps. That's why on a proper system all amps are identical within their frequency band. Over all SPL level is determined by the master fader.
When I run a system, every stage is at unity from the head of the chain through the cross overs to the power amps. The ONLY fader that is not unity is the master fader, which can be anywhere between infinity to plus zero, depending on how loud I want it.
There's no law against getting less than full potential from your board, and uderfeeding your house amps, if that's how you want to do things. But that doesn't mean it's the correct way to do things.
You're a nice guy and some of what you say is correct. However, you must set your power amps all the way up. You check your gains on each used channel of the mixer with the master fader turned all the way down. Then you turn your masters up to 0 dB and gradually set your tracks to get the mix you want. This is the correct sequence.
I got a brand new speaker and I have set up everything until it clips, but my speaker will hit overload before I can even pass 1/3 of its max capacity. I have the Ultramize ON if that affects it. Is it because I have it set up in a small room? HELP PLEASE
Is it passive or active? If it's passive it seems to me that the power amp has a much greater capacity than the speaker. If you send me every detail of your setup I'll help you. The brands, the models etc.; everything. I don't know what Ultramize is. Is it a brand-specific option? Do not set anything to clip. Always drop the level till the clip indicator goes off. That may help by itself but if you contact me you'll learn. I'm not into subs etc.
i normally put the faders on the tracks up to full, bring the msater faders to unity then set the gain to just below the feedback level, that way the edge of the feedback is when the track faders is at the top :S is there a problem with that??
@lave444 Naw, I'm quite content with myself and my knowledge on this subject but I'm not desperate enough to waste my time filming myself do that. Troll.
can any one help me i play guitar in a rock band and were running a 1000 watt power amp and an old kelly mixer all our amps are miced but when we turn it up we get feed back our 5 mics are placed properly but in just trying to trobule shoot so leave a comment or pm me if you have any ideas thanks
@alexpoz09 the main problem for your feedback could be one of many things 1 you have a very big gain n the mic channels that means that your gain knob on the mic channel is way to high the best thing to do is to reduce that channels gain knob and tur on the volume of the channel by fader if that dosent work you can contact me on my profile
@wickedvalues This system works well when you find yourself using mix and match equipment. Different brand amps with different output ratings driving a mixture of speakers. What he's doing here is maximising the amount of audio level into the sound desk, then sending that level to the amps, winding up the amps until they are just below clip and hey presto you have maximised the effeciency of each link in the chain, with the lowest hiss/noise (signal to noise ratio)
yeh hes missing loads of things in this vid. You always keep your faders flat when plugging everything in/canceling out clipping, you then turn the faders up to the appropriate level after.
The way I set the gain control is by simply pushin on the pfl button and sending that individual channel to U on your led meter. This I've done for some time and it's pretty acurate and I dont get no overloading.
I have found this approach to be best.....as for scorchinbeats question, it's all about the signal to noise ratio amplification and headroom......if the first signal in the chain is weak, then every process of amplification or effects becomes more dirty ie, s/n ratio...also if you have too much pre amp on the channel, it is the same thing
sorry that I'm an idiot, but why does it matter at which point you increase your level. Wouldn't an increase of say 5db be the EXACT same thing on any mixer or piece of equipment, anywhere in the chain?
Completely WRONG!!! You set everything on the mixer to ZERO! Channel gain should read around zero, not just under clipping! You have no headroom if you are almost clipping. The channel fader should run around zero, and the master volume on the mixer should output around zero DB. Your amp should not clip, it's level depends on your speakers or how loud you want them. DO NOT turn them all the way up, they will clip and you have no headroom.
@avdude94 I believe you are WRONG........Just like the knobs or dials on an amplifier...they are NOT the volume or power knobs.....they are sensitivity settings according to the volt signal from the board to the amp...any smart sound guy like you would know that......hehehehe
@hickrystyk the board is not producing the power, that's the amplifier's job. That's what I meant to say. On that MG32, you should have the channels PFL'ing to the first yellow light, and the master volume to the first yellow as well. That gives you headroom and your amp can finish the job and attenuate the signal to where it can driver the speakers at a reasonable SPL.
In fact, you shouldn't even be using that Yamaha MG32 to show people how to set up gain! Either use one of the two industry standards, the Midas XL range maybe the XL4 or the Allen & Heath ML5000 either way, never use a desk that isn't industry standard. Every decent sound engineer should know that.
This is a load of crap! i have been a sound engineer for best part of 5 years now, the first year i was in training, then the second year, i became the sound engineer for Enter Shikari. You set all of our faders to 0dB including your master L + R outs, set EQ flat, mute the channel, bring up the gain so the signal is coming through strong, but not over powering. Set your amps to 3 o'clock, bring down the channel fader, unmute it, then fade the channel up so you dont have any feed back!
9.Allways check that any equipment in the chain Equalizers or compressors etc. that the levels in and out are similar, so you are not reducing the signal, and also you can get a bit back here.
7.When you raise the FOH (master fader or faders) listen for what is to loud and either eq it back or lower it's fader. a bit like EQing. Then clean up any channels that need it, with either the EQ or sound effects.
8 At this point, if you need to raise anything to the point of clipping to achieve the volume required just go and buy a bigger pa system. You can get a bit more from the system but the quality of the equipment will be tested. hence you get what you paid for.
4.Now activate the AFL on the master, and set it's fader at "0"and see how it is effected by each channel individually. Don't let the master clip. Once you have done this the desk should be running flat out with a far bit of head room for EQing
5.Now pull your master faders down and turn your power amps up full. now get the band to start playing on just there moniters then eq and set there volumes
6.once they are happy with their stage sound raise th FOH faders to a suitable
For what it is worth,this is how I was taught and remember the secret is "look and listen"
1.Evaluate the speaker's capacity and power amp strength. The bigger the amp,the better (produces a undistorted signal etc),
2.Turn power amps down,
3.plug in Mic. etc activate PFL,set fader to "0" adjust gain setting while singing into mic somewhere between 0 and under clipping on th led gauge,Do this for each channel.
Here is a quick one on the gain knob (aka - the trim knob) It controls your incoming signal into the board. This is the very beginning of your gain structure and is VERY important to set properly because though we have many ways to turn up sound in a mixer - the first step is to get each individual microphone adjusted with the gain knob so that proper voltage flows into the board.
Can ANYONE actually agree on the correct way? Help me out. I usually set a PFL level around 0 on each channel, i set my power amps to around 3/4+ and use the master output on the mixer to control overall volume. Is this an ok system????
@Gooombla Everything you do is OK except the master. You want your board to output around zero or unity Db. Then set your power amps to a nominal level, and you will have some control on the master volume. You really don't want the board to be amplifying the signal any, just let it process the signal like it's supposed to. Unless, of course, you have a powered mixer (amp built in).
The preamp is a divice to boost the signal. Is disigned to do that, so it does it better than the mixer (fader) if you level it above 0dB. In 0dB you don't have any boost. What comes in, comes out. Now, if you push your fader up, you have a boost in your signal but in lower quality and it has lower gain space than the preamp. I hope I answered right...
I do PFL solo level setting and use the VU leds to trim up each channel. If I'm running 5 or more mics on a panel I'll trim them all between -3 and 0(Unity) on the VU meters.
This way the sum of those mics pretty much won't be always exceeding +5 dB on the meter during showtime - or power point time.
I don't even have to listen to what I'm setting this way. I just use my eyes, and the meters. Once levels are set, I slowly raise the amp or power speaker gains to the required volume.
@Zickcermacity You are doing it correctly according to John Mills (concert M7 sound tech for TobyMac, Skillet, etc) and Randy Weitzel (monitor mixer for Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson). I think they have enough experience to know what's right.
Being critical or abusive of the presenter is becoming an unattractive habit in YouTube, Rather than criticising, why not upload a video that you think is better and more accurate.
alright this a really stupid question, but i have a PA mixer with two little speakers and i wanted to know if i could hook up like a 4x12 cab onto it in place of one of the speakers or would that not be possible.
.............................no this guy's mixes must sound either ear blowing or about as unbalanced as it gets. this guy must be rich to replace all the amps he has blown with this method
there is a lot that goes into sound systems. If i where you I'd start with the basics. Yamaha makes a nice book call " the sound reinforcement handbook" that is a really good starting point. but if you're just looking for something quick and simple...........see my next comment
start with routing make it so that on your board you have the stereo inserts running to you whole-house-EQ then take the stereo outs to your main amps, set your main amps to 100%, then take the mono out to your crossover, from there you take the low output to your sub amp. set the sub amp to 100% and then use the crossovers input volume and low output volume to make the subs equal in volume to the mains (pink noise with and RTA is the best way to do this)
The safest and most practical way to run a modern PA is with DSP. The principle of setting your singal level on your input gains is correct but is it sensible to have your amps set below 0db? Surely you will have no control over the system volume at FOH.
Are you kidding me? Amps should only be turned up until you reach your desired SPL. If you need to turn it up all the way then you have to, but if you don't then you shouldn't. Turning your amps all the way up causes way more floor noise. Not to mention your meters will hardly move and you run the risk of blowing your speakers. You should also make sure you have the proper voltage capacity in your speakers because some amps can produce a lot more voltage then what a speaker can handle.
Oh yes, sorry, you're the expert here. Oh and of course! Speaker power is, of course, measured in volts, not watts. Well, if that's the case, some amps can 'produce a lot more voltage (power) than what a speaker can handle', then you should have bought an appropriately rated amplifier, not one which is far too powerful for the speakers. If you have a decent mixer, then you should be able to set it up so that you get readings on the meters,and my mixer has input meters on each channel anyway.
Hey i'm a guitar player and i want to record some stuff but i don't know what's some good stuff to buy. Things i've got know is a mic which is directly plugged into the computer. Further i use a recording program but i'm not satisfied with my sound quality so my question actually is: what do i need for a reasonable recording sound quality?
All of this depends on what sound you want to acheive, nothing is set in stone for recording. The quickest and most common way is to get a decent recording software program such as Cubase or Sony Acid, and get a USB or Firewire mixing desk. Then also purchase a decent microphone, i suggest the Shure SM57. Once you has all of this equipment you will be amazed on the quality you can achive. Be sure to play around with the placement of the microphone to you amplifier or acoustic guitar.
Can any one answer this question? I'm am very green and don't know my way around equipment very well. Can you connect 4 high speakers to 1 amp with only two imputs in the back? or is it best just to buy 2 amps. I'm stupid, i know
hey frank im assuming that the speakers you are talking about can all plug into an amp. Depending on the power needed to power the speakers and the power that the amp can put out it depends if you can hook all 4 speakers to one amp. For work we use 4 speakers and have two jumped together and then a line into the amp and the same for the other two. Since the amp can handle the power to the speakers it is fine. If you need more help feel free to message hope that helps
It depends on the impedence of your speakers and what impedence your amp is happy to run at.
If your amp will run at 4 ohms and you are going to run 2 x 8 ohm speakers on each channel then the answer is yes.
I suggest you google the question you asked. There are many sites other than youtube which will give you an answer, but you will have to read it, not watch a video.
you should run your signal as hot as possible without clipping through each gain stage. This ensures the best signal to noise ratio. The final variable will be the amplifier's input sensitivity. With the master fader at 0, Turn it up the amplifier gain until it clips on the peaks, then back it off a bit. Now control the sound level in the room with the master fader on your mixer. When it is set to 0 you will have the most ideal gain possible on your system.
I think that was the idea. By not hearing anything it gives you plenty of chance to set stuff up right without all the extra noise you don't actually need at that point.
If all you're doing it looking for clipping on meters then why do you need to also be blasting your eyes hours before a soundcheck even starts.
OyTaeMo: Thanks for your very mature and helpful comment which really helpes all of us getting a better understanding of what was meant so we can improve and do better.
Hey guys FYI this vid seems to have been made so people who have never touched a sound system can't blow it up!
If you know the limits of your system and you have some skill with live sound, don't bother watching this vid, it's the idiots guide to entry sound operating.
If you want to get on the road to live sound this is a fantastic vid to get your head around 1 of the fundamentals
The amp gain should always be at 100%. The amp was designed to work optimally at a certain power level. Do you mixing on the console. If you have a signal coming in to hot, roll back on the channel gain, before lowering the channel fader from 0. Mix at 0! Of course thats one of those things that is simply user preference. But as far as amps go, crank em.
I totally agree. The gain on the amps should ALWAYS be all the way up. Adjust the gain on the mixer. All pro tours have the amp gain all the way on at all times!!!
you both got a very good point but depends how powerfull your speaker rig is if you had like a 5k rig in a small hall then there not much point takeing it right up
@arthurkitchen I have to agree with you. O have to 2,500 watt amps in my rig and I keep them all the way up and adjust at the board. You get the cleanest sound this way in my opinion.
Setting gain structure on a board takes a bit more than just being told what to do (i.e. as in this video). It takes experience. As well, this video is not very good for actually describing what needs to be completed for setting gain.
Primary complaint about this video... No need to move any faders to set system gain! Only adjust the knobs that control the gain. After all gain is set... then begin to bring in faders... and they be at lower than -0- and still sound good.
Faders at unity is correct if your following your gain structure all the way through ie, compressor/limiters etc. For all who blieve the power amps should be full on, no matter where you set the amp it is full on. The gain control or level control is an attenutor a variable resitor that you set to control the input level which will be very hot if you've maximized your gain at each step. There is more to it but I believe this clip is good to get you started thinking about this tough topic.
Can someone tell me how should i go about this : We have a 1200w amp [EV] , 2 250w each stage monitors , 2 Peavey 750w each 3 ways passive speakers . Now my question is we are planning to buy 2 250w each Active speakers for better sound quality in the room were we use our system . If we go for it , how would we go about the mixing with the two diff. types of speaker i.e 750 passive and 250 active ?? Is this connection possible ? i am just new to the mixing scene and want to get it right .Thanks!
You treat the active and passive speakers the same way when running signals to them. The only difference is, with the active speakers, you run a signal directly to them (either from the board or x-over)... where as the passive speakers, you would run the signal (either from the board or x-over)to an amplifier that supports those passive speakers.
The word "Volume" keeps popping up from the green crowd. Amps don't have volume controls, they have input sensitivity controls (and yes, there is more than a subtle difference).
Running your amps "full-up" is a wreckless misunderstanding of gain structure, and an even worse understanding of S/N ratio.
There are certainly many opinions shared in here, but it seems like most of them have no "field-experience" behind them.
I would argue that the amp gain is always set at full, giving you the maximum headroom that you might need, considering that amp racks are very accessible during a gig. Then adjust on the desk as need be.
right back at you. Amps set full up, maybe notch top amp back a bit in 2-way system for more bottom-end when you crank masters up. Most important gain is channel input as too weak or too strong a signal here can fk sound up. Clean signal in=Clean signal out. Overall volume set from desk masters. Never seen a desk with o/p gain knob so that seems a bit too specific to that console for a 'general' setup description.
hey fs...crossovers ALWAYS go before amplification. The crossover settings will be different depending on size of box and manufacturer so be sure to read up on your specs.
We are not setting how loud the signal coming out from the speaker. The reason for the volume down are because we want to set up the maximum gain before clipping. After found the clipping point at the mixer,we set the volume level on the amp for clipping point. This will calibrate the clipping point for both mixer and amp. When we see the mixer clip, the amp will clip. It's all about calibrating and maximising gain.
This is a very very basic way of setting up your console. Me being a professional live engineer, I don't do it this way. At least not for a large format pro console which most do not have a clip light on the channels. You need to know were does the clip like go on at +3, +6 or -3, -6. It would work on a very small basic mackie system for someone that knows nothing.
I dont usually post negative comments, but this way of setting up "gain structure" may work for the home studio or theater room- but its not the right way to do it in a live setting.
The mis-information thing seems to running rampid anymore.
Actually as one of those educated designers and installers, I uses an oscilloscope, voltmeter, room analyzer, tone generator etc to do this properly, but for the average joe who this clip is directed at this will get you in the ball park. It's not misinformation its simplified information. I'd explain it pretty much the same way unless my audiance already had a foundation to build on. It's better to be close the upside down. It's Okay.
But a REAL console not a mackie, Buy a REAL DSP. Take Physics class. Learn about harmonic distortion. Learn about mixing monitors from FOH. Then make a video until then, you have no right...
Good point yet 99% of the guys runing sound systems are using mackies, yamahas and unfortunantly that behringer stuff and those same 99% would pefer to see things demonstrated on product they have access to. I'd think that would raise thier comfort level. I just feel this basic approach is fine for the average user and the technical approach would be way over thier heads. As far a gear goes high end or low the concept is the same.
Tell you what. When I have some time, I'll set a small system up with average gear, and do it this way then I'll get my test equipment fired up and see how much difference there really is between this approach and the fine tuning or tweaking we do as professionals. I'll report back and we'll at least have more to concider, share or run from.
why would you turn your speakers down as low as possible? you're not going to find out what the proper feedback level is if your speakers are off. This guy doesn't have a clue about what he's saying.
you turn your amps down because you dont want to get feedback while setting ur gain for the first time. once you have set your gain for the first time you shouldnt have to adjust your amp attenuation very much. the key to this is your amp level should be considered for feedback rather than your gain structure, as it is for matching up your equipment.. hope that helps.
Can I know how to turn on the effects ?
Such as changing the pitch like chipmunk's voice ?
xShinrox 2 weeks ago
@xShinrox , Get an octave FX.
guitarslim56 1 week ago
thank you but how to setup pa with 2 amps 2 mains and 2 subs Id like to bridge teh subs and the mains to a snake its a bit confusing im deslixic and need simple diagram or driection thank you..
swiftnsassy 4 months ago
thank you but how to setup pa with 2 amps 2 mains and 2 subs Id like to bridge teh subs and the mains to a snake its a bit confusing im deslixic and need simple diagram or driection thanks you..
swiftnsassy 4 months ago
Utter non sense. This is not how you set up gain structure in the real world.
oniondan 4 months ago
@oniondan Please explain?
cworner11 3 months ago
nice work
djjoeworldwide 6 months ago
There are 2 main reasons for setting Gain Structure (GS) - optimizing sound quality and minimizing damage potential to amps and speakers. Shure has a great publication on this but it involves using an oscilloscope. Having your faders and master at max will achieve the first better than how he describes. That way you have confidence when using the board you can use the entire travel of the fader without clipping which you should avoid until you're very experienced & know what u can get away with.
joefunsmith 8 months ago
1:07 : What does setting the input faders to unity(0) or 5dB above and setting the Master fader to unity or -5db have to do with setting gain??
I mean, we are talking PRE-FADE through the board here, right? otherwise I agree with and practice this procedure, including turning up the amp last.
Zickcermacity 9 months ago
if you set a gain structure acording to this then you will end up having a master clip. the proper way to set a gain structure ( depending if your band is on ears or wedges) is to get a graphing calculator and type in -10LOG and then how many open chanels you are using. That will tell you what your gain structure needs to be set for every channle and then your master LED lights on the console should read right at unity.
tuckerdalton 10 months ago
@tuckerdalton Hope that graphing calculator has a spell check. Short story, Channel at unity, master at unity, processor at unity. DONE. That's as clean as it gets, you just ride gain.
bo0tsy1 9 months ago
I knew a guy who ran excellent sound and I asked him advice, and he told me to max out the master faders and he pointed to them, he had them duck taped so nobody would move them. He must have known what he was talking about because the vocals and mix were always crystal clear.
Unshackledtruth 11 months ago
@Unshackledtruth you NEVER want to do that!!!!!!
guineapiggyman 6 months ago
great vid. wish I would had watch this video several years ago...
what about set up a system tri-amp... how to set up the gains @ X-over. I may be doing it right but i would like to hear from an expert..
ladjkaoz 1 year ago
at last someone on expert village whom knows what they are talking about
bobkats 1 year ago 25
thank you man...
lowrider692 1 year ago
whats the grey guitar in the middle behind the dude in the beginning?
MrFilipinjo 1 year ago
Mr. Bradford is right for the most part but missed an important rule: the board is the foundation. New soundboards have a handy button on them the PFL button (pre-fader-listen). Use the PFL button to set all channels and yes at the loudest song in the set to unity. That’s before any fader goes up have the band use only the monitors as a loudness reference. Next and the most important thing is the main fader is set at -0- or - 3 depending on what your board calls for and leave it!
imagepictures 1 year ago
@imagepictures close, but unity for the circuit is on the fader. never put a channel fader to above unity unless you have no other choice. You are supplying the circuit with more voltage than nominal and you make the circuit unstable. The theory of clipping and pulling back craps all over the built in head room of your boards channel at unity. Running at unity sounds better and is less likely to feed back. PFL is only a checkpoint, not a benchmark
danpaolangeli 1 year ago
@danpaolangeli Please check with Allen & Heath or any board manufacture and you will find that I am right. Have you ever wondered why they give you +10 or +12 on the fader? Why not just +5? A channels sensitivity is set at the gain knob, volume is set at the fader and using the PFL allows a more accurate sensitivity setting. That's a fact.
imagepictures 1 year ago
@imagepictures I see what you mean, mister image pictures. However, unless I'm mistaken, it's been the case since the dawn of mixing boards that the 1.23 volts supplied to a channel is given via the fader, not the gain pot. I used to use the PFL to set the gain method seven years ago but after a few years of reading and listening and talking to my touring and grammy winning, and optical physics PhD bearing friends I learned why this is not optimal. Do some research. Its pretty available info.
danpaolangeli 1 year ago
@danpaolangeli Perhaps I am talking about one thing and you another. Am I wrong? The gain is the pre-amp, it brings the very low voltage signal from the mic up to a level that the amp can use. Now some singers can be very loud and others soft so the gain will vary depending on the mic and the singer. By using the PFL you will have a more precise evaluation of that channel because you can watch what it is doing throughout the song and set it to a peak of -0- or -3 for all channels.
imagepictures 1 year ago
@imagepictures The gain is indeed a potentiometer for the voltage provided by the power rails for the pre-amp- on that you are correct. However proper gain structure depends on setting the gain according to the system being run at unity on the fader. Tonight i stopped in to a venue on the way to my show and took a look at the board. It was set up that night by my uncles bands engineer, a man whom dave grohl from the foo fighters personally calls to tour. Faders at unity accross the board.
danpaolangeli 1 year ago
@danpaolangeli I have enjoyed this conversation. I see that I have been talking about something a bit different that you. I am a recording engineer. On my Neve desk every channel has a PFL/AFL led meter. I set all my tracks gain to peak at -0-. Depending on the song and the part of the song, I might have the guitar at -10 or as high as +5 all in one song. I don't worry about feedback and I think that is what you are talking about; balance from pre to fader to amp. Right? Thanks again, Pete
imagepictures 1 year ago
@danpaolangeli The fader sitting at unity is essentially doing nothing - neither cutting nor boosting the pre-amp. So it's wrong to say that it's "supplying 1.23V to the channel." It's also wrong to say that this has been since the dawn of mixers - why do you think the reference is 1.23V at unity (+4dBu) rather than 0.775V (0dBu)? It's for historical reasons, due to improvements in tape bias requiring hotter outputs.
StuballScramble 1 year ago
I know everyone's going to hate on me, but if you have an irresponsible DJ who's going to redline the mixer anyway, it's probably better to set the clip point of the amp to the clip point of the desk ;)
StuballScramble 1 year ago
@StuballScramble Tell the DJ this- "I'm having a lot of trouble getting the sound right out front. I think I might be getting a bit too much signal. Is it possible if you pull back your outputs a bit?" Chances are, he wants his shit to sound as good as possible. If this is a theory question, clipping your amps will send DC to your speakers and blow them up. Clipping your board just sounds like doodoo. If you are really running that hard, highpass the mains at 80 and stuff in your earplugs.
danpaolangeli 1 year ago
@danpaolangeli DJs don't ever listen though. It's fine if you're going to be at the gig babysitting all night, but if not drastic action has to be taken. Crap DJs redline the mixers always, regardless of the actual volume or sound quality on the dancefloor. And the chances of a modern amp delivering DC to speakers due to clipping is pretty slim.
StuballScramble 1 year ago
@StuballScramble NOT ALL DJ ARE THE SAME.. I keep my red lights off... on my mixer 2 channels lol. then I raise the master on my mixer to about 60 or 70, open up my 2mics, stand on the middle of the dance floor and increase the gain on all my all amps. till I get feed back, then i back it up a few DBs and is done... go back to my mixer and lower the master to about 1. now i know the loudest i can play is 6 or 7 on my master lever...hope Im doing it right... correct me on what im wrong. thanks
ladjkaoz 1 year ago
@ladjkaoz the microphones in the middle of the floor wont be helping, if not making it worse. if you have your amp cranked and ur music as loud as it can go the mics arent going to be doing much other then reducing signal quality
dano9094 9 months ago
You could turn the amps all the way up and the master on the board down if you didn't want to HEAR anything. Turn your amps all the way up. Thats where the CLEAN power is. DO NOT set your Master or channels above unity gain. And whatever you do, do not try to learn anything from expert village.
OldSouthernSoldier 1 year ago
why is it that numerous sound guys dont use or have knowledge of setting trim with pfl? also sound guys that dont use headphones, i dont know they do it.
aaronnobody 1 year ago
Just to let everyone know, Expert Village is a joke. They are made for a laugh and aren't supposed to be taken seriously.
polyphony89 1 year ago
Power amps all the way up! Free gain! Most board's preamps are going to be rather lack-luster anyway, so no need in trying to squeeze out every ounce of volume you can from the channels if your power amps are only sitting half-open
jh4124 1 year ago
this is for noobs
ironslalyica 1 year ago 15
@ironslalyica uh yeah. there are people who want to learn how to set up a sound system.
SpiderRider3 7 months ago
@ironslalyica umm actully it for people who like sound and hav a living with it andmake money its not some video game bud
djmarco450 6 months ago
@ironslalyica then why are you watching this fucktard?
ThePAngel23 6 months ago
@ThePAngel23 for the same reason you commented this dumb ass, go and study a bit more... the day you learn how to set the drive rack PA system come and talk... idiot noob...
ironslalyica 6 months ago
@ironslalyica you still a dumb asshole. like i said before. if you claim you know all this stuff then why are you on here bashing people who do want to learn about this stuff? faggot.
ThePAngel23 6 months ago
@ThePAngel23 haha take it easy and go to study some more dude The Drive Rack PA is still waiting... Or... you don't even know how to use a crossover and a compressor????? lol dumbass redneck...
ironslalyica 6 months ago
@ironslalyica i'm a dj dumbass. i know how to use a fucking crossover. and i'm black dumb fuck.
ThePAngel23 6 months ago
@ThePAngel23 I don't mind if you are black white or yellow you are still an ignorant... an ignorant nigger Uncle Tom
ironslalyica 5 months ago
@ironslalyica oops. i put i'm black. i'm half white half black. and your a stupid ass racist and i hope you die you fucking piece of shit. have a lovely day :)
ThePAngel23 5 months ago
...But then you'd be getting very little signal from your board or any o/b devices between it and your House and/or Monitors.
Zickcermacity 1 year ago
At least this guy dispels the MYTH that the Gain Knobs on the Power Amps MUST be turned fully clockwise(or, "maxed") - 2:15 . He specifically points out that there are MULTIPLE gain points through any PA system - be it Madison Square Garden or a pair of powered EONS and a 12ch board at a street fair. Keep gain through the system above the noisefloor but below clipping/distortion, and there should be no need to "max" any setting in your system!
Or you could be lazy and max the knobs . .
Zickcermacity 1 year ago 2
@Zickcermacity Unless you are running a minuscule system the gains on ALL amps are full out, or have a set input point of 0db (+4dbm) That is true unity gain throughout the entire chain. You are not going to adjust gain on 50 different amps. That's why on a proper system all amps are identical within their frequency band. Over all SPL level is determined by the master fader.
janimori 1 year ago
@janimori excuse the type-O +4dbu
janimori 1 year ago
When I run a system, every stage is at unity from the head of the chain through the cross overs to the power amps. The ONLY fader that is not unity is the master fader, which can be anywhere between infinity to plus zero, depending on how loud I want it.
janimori 1 year ago
@janimori
There's no law against getting less than full potential from your board, and uderfeeding your house amps, if that's how you want to do things. But that doesn't mean it's the correct way to do things.
Zickcermacity 1 year ago
@djteknovibe you do not have to go to all that trouble and expense to setup.
This stuff is easy.
wtw88 1 year ago
You're a nice guy and some of what you say is correct. However, you must set your power amps all the way up. You check your gains on each used channel of the mixer with the master fader turned all the way down. Then you turn your masters up to 0 dB and gradually set your tracks to get the mix you want. This is the correct sequence.
wtw88 1 year ago
I got a brand new speaker and I have set up everything until it clips, but my speaker will hit overload before I can even pass 1/3 of its max capacity. I have the Ultramize ON if that affects it. Is it because I have it set up in a small room? HELP PLEASE
ipfreely23 1 year ago
@ipfreely23 What's the power of the speaker?
Is it passive or active? If it's passive it seems to me that the power amp has a much greater capacity than the speaker. If you send me every detail of your setup I'll help you. The brands, the models etc.; everything. I don't know what Ultramize is. Is it a brand-specific option? Do not set anything to clip. Always drop the level till the clip indicator goes off. That may help by itself but if you contact me you'll learn. I'm not into subs etc.
wtw88 1 year ago
i normally put the faders on the tracks up to full, bring the msater faders to unity then set the gain to just below the feedback level, that way the edge of the feedback is when the track faders is at the top :S is there a problem with that??
jon6123 1 year ago
really helpful and concise!
paultuition 1 year ago
you also have to re- set the gain for your channels once you EQ the channel... EQ'ing (boosting or cuttin frequencies) will affect the gain level.
snapascrew 1 year ago
Complete useless infomation.
Im 16 i manage P.A system for my school and what
this guy is saying is all rubbish.
Thank-You for reading.
lave444 1 year ago
@lave444
Oh yeah, your 16 and you know everything there is to know about sound engineering ... ( eye roll)
RexxWayne 1 year ago
@RexxWayne since when did i say i know all abt engineering i just say what hes talkin is trash. Please learn how to read.
lave444 1 year ago
@lave444 no, you haven't displayed any knowledge in any of your comments and I have so please never classify me with you. ever.
snapascrew 1 year ago
@lave444 lol... I'm 17, and know that you're a retard.
snapascrew 1 year ago
@snapascrew Thanks it takes one retard to know another.
lave444 1 year ago
@snapascrew if u know so much why don't u make a video better than this? if you already have 1 please lend me see it thanks.
lave444 1 year ago
@lave444 Naw, I'm quite content with myself and my knowledge on this subject but I'm not desperate enough to waste my time filming myself do that. Troll.
snapascrew 1 year ago
@snapascrew Oh, I see ok.
I'm not gona argue back kuz I'm wasting my time on you when i could be doing other stuff more important.
lave444 1 year ago
@lave444 you JUST replied back. prove that you're the more mature and one, and don't say a thing back to me.
snapascrew 1 year ago
can any one help me i play guitar in a rock band and were running a 1000 watt power amp and an old kelly mixer all our amps are miced but when we turn it up we get feed back our 5 mics are placed properly but in just trying to trobule shoot so leave a comment or pm me if you have any ideas thanks
alexpoz09 1 year ago
@alexpoz09 the main problem for your feedback could be one of many things 1 you have a very big gain n the mic channels that means that your gain knob on the mic channel is way to high the best thing to do is to reduce that channels gain knob and tur on the volume of the channel by fader if that dosent work you can contact me on my profile
KoMaSH 1 year ago
@KoMaSH ill try that thanks
alexpoz09 1 year ago
oh no expert villiage . Prepare to be bullshitted to .
biscuits1337XD 1 year ago
what's wrong with you ... nothing but useless shit ... amp gain should be always to 0db (full)
wickedvalues 1 year ago
@wickedvalues This system works well when you find yourself using mix and match equipment. Different brand amps with different output ratings driving a mixture of speakers. What he's doing here is maximising the amount of audio level into the sound desk, then sending that level to the amps, winding up the amps until they are just below clip and hey presto you have maximised the effeciency of each link in the chain, with the lowest hiss/noise (signal to noise ratio)
prunch72 1 year ago
if i were him adjust the volume to the amps max and when the clip indicator lights up on the amp. thats is thats the limit
jay68521 1 year ago
this is the best way to add alot of noise, and lose sonic fidelity.
nickpaz 1 year ago
ignore this video.. its completely wrong!
levelken 1 year ago
yeh hes missing loads of things in this vid. You always keep your faders flat when plugging everything in/canceling out clipping, you then turn the faders up to the appropriate level after.
TheDastardlyEmu 1 year ago
yes im doing the same thing he is and my mixer is not cliping at alll... anyone wanna help me? because my Pa system buzes alot!?
Mattdevil007 1 year ago
This is abosolut crap!
lighttech258852 1 year ago
The way I set the gain control is by simply pushin on the pfl button and sending that individual channel to U on your led meter. This I've done for some time and it's pretty acurate and I dont get no overloading.
azdruvaraztecgod 1 year ago
I have found this approach to be best.....as for scorchinbeats question, it's all about the signal to noise ratio amplification and headroom......if the first signal in the chain is weak, then every process of amplification or effects becomes more dirty ie, s/n ratio...also if you have too much pre amp on the channel, it is the same thing
hickrystyk 1 year ago
sorry that I'm an idiot, but why does it matter at which point you increase your level. Wouldn't an increase of say 5db be the EXACT same thing on any mixer or piece of equipment, anywhere in the chain?
ScorchinBeats 1 year ago
This is a good way of setting the gain ONLY if you are in a studio.
LudyCro 2 years ago
Completely WRONG!!! You set everything on the mixer to ZERO! Channel gain should read around zero, not just under clipping! You have no headroom if you are almost clipping. The channel fader should run around zero, and the master volume on the mixer should output around zero DB. Your amp should not clip, it's level depends on your speakers or how loud you want them. DO NOT turn them all the way up, they will clip and you have no headroom.
avdude94 2 years ago
@avdude94 I believe you are WRONG........Just like the knobs or dials on an amplifier...they are NOT the volume or power knobs.....they are sensitivity settings according to the volt signal from the board to the amp...any smart sound guy like you would know that......hehehehe
hickrystyk 1 year ago
@hickrystyk the board is not producing the power, that's the amplifier's job. That's what I meant to say. On that MG32, you should have the channels PFL'ing to the first yellow light, and the master volume to the first yellow as well. That gives you headroom and your amp can finish the job and attenuate the signal to where it can driver the speakers at a reasonable SPL.
avdude94 1 year ago
NO NO NONONO..! Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong.!!!!!!!! :(
Matidi1234 2 years ago
In fact, you shouldn't even be using that Yamaha MG32 to show people how to set up gain! Either use one of the two industry standards, the Midas XL range maybe the XL4 or the Allen & Heath ML5000 either way, never use a desk that isn't industry standard. Every decent sound engineer should know that.
mksoundproductions 2 years ago
This is a load of crap! i have been a sound engineer for best part of 5 years now, the first year i was in training, then the second year, i became the sound engineer for Enter Shikari. You set all of our faders to 0dB including your master L + R outs, set EQ flat, mute the channel, bring up the gain so the signal is coming through strong, but not over powering. Set your amps to 3 o'clock, bring down the channel fader, unmute it, then fade the channel up so you dont have any feed back!
mksoundproductions 2 years ago
Comment removed
spockydog 2 years ago
thanks i needed real advice
HALOBROSk57 2 years ago
Enter Shikari's recordings sound like shit.
TheScore22 1 year ago
@TheScore22 Thats ok then... because i don't record them.... I engineer them Live.
mksoundproductions 1 year ago
9.Allways check that any equipment in the chain Equalizers or compressors etc. that the levels in and out are similar, so you are not reducing the signal, and also you can get a bit back here.
I hope this helps
spockydog 2 years ago
7.When you raise the FOH (master fader or faders) listen for what is to loud and either eq it back or lower it's fader. a bit like EQing. Then clean up any channels that need it, with either the EQ or sound effects.
8 At this point, if you need to raise anything to the point of clipping to achieve the volume required just go and buy a bigger pa system. You can get a bit more from the system but the quality of the equipment will be tested. hence you get what you paid for.
spockydog 2 years ago
4.Now activate the AFL on the master, and set it's fader at "0"and see how it is effected by each channel individually. Don't let the master clip. Once you have done this the desk should be running flat out with a far bit of head room for EQing
5.Now pull your master faders down and turn your power amps up full. now get the band to start playing on just there moniters then eq and set there volumes
6.once they are happy with their stage sound raise th FOH faders to a suitable
volume.
spockydog 2 years ago
For what it is worth,this is how I was taught and remember the secret is "look and listen"
1.Evaluate the speaker's capacity and power amp strength. The bigger the amp,the better (produces a undistorted signal etc),
2.Turn power amps down,
3.plug in Mic. etc activate PFL,set fader to "0" adjust gain setting while singing into mic somewhere between 0 and under clipping on th led gauge,Do this for each channel.
spockydog 2 years ago
Here is a quick one on the gain knob (aka - the trim knob) It controls your incoming signal into the board. This is the very beginning of your gain structure and is VERY important to set properly because though we have many ways to turn up sound in a mixer - the first step is to get each individual microphone adjusted with the gain knob so that proper voltage flows into the board.
danaj33 2 years ago
Can ANYONE actually agree on the correct way? Help me out. I usually set a PFL level around 0 on each channel, i set my power amps to around 3/4+ and use the master output on the mixer to control overall volume. Is this an ok system????
Gooombla 2 years ago
If I understand your explanation correctly:
I work exactly the other way around. I always keep my amps full open. try to keep my faders around 0 and then set my gain.
Sigwulf 2 years ago
Ok thanks man
Gooombla 2 years ago
Get yourself a copy of Duncan Fry's book on live sound mixing, it's about $45 but worth every cent.
And you will find that everyone does it a little differently but every gig/room/pa is different. Get the knowledge and then you'll work out a method.
spockydog 2 years ago
@Gooombla Everything you do is OK except the master. You want your board to output around zero or unity Db. Then set your power amps to a nominal level, and you will have some control on the master volume. You really don't want the board to be amplifying the signal any, just let it process the signal like it's supposed to. Unless, of course, you have a powered mixer (amp built in).
avdude94 1 year ago
@avdude94 Ok thanks mate
Gooombla 1 year ago
Very Helpful...thanks!
beatmaker12 2 years ago
what's the difference between preamp and mixer?
comc39 2 years ago
The preamp is a divice to boost the signal. Is disigned to do that, so it does it better than the mixer (fader) if you level it above 0dB. In 0dB you don't have any boost. What comes in, comes out. Now, if you push your fader up, you have a boost in your signal but in lower quality and it has lower gain space than the preamp. I hope I answered right...
bellumcarmen 2 years ago
tht guitar in the middle is a parker fly about 5 g's
trainwreckzee 2 years ago
BTW I have NEVER run a show with the amp gains(or powered speaker knobs) all the way "up". Never had to.
But in defense of the majority of soundmen that do, I will list some reasons why they follow the practice:
1. Some drunk or tech know it all can't turn them up any "louder"
2. You know both channels are equally loud if they're both against the upper stop.
3. You'll have all the headroom you need for louder portions of the program.
Those are some some of the reasons.
Zickcermacity 2 years ago
I do PFL solo level setting and use the VU leds to trim up each channel. If I'm running 5 or more mics on a panel I'll trim them all between -3 and 0(Unity) on the VU meters.
This way the sum of those mics pretty much won't be always exceeding +5 dB on the meter during showtime - or power point time.
I don't even have to listen to what I'm setting this way. I just use my eyes, and the meters. Once levels are set, I slowly raise the amp or power speaker gains to the required volume.
Zickcermacity 2 years ago
@Zickcermacity You are doing it correctly according to John Mills (concert M7 sound tech for TobyMac, Skillet, etc) and Randy Weitzel (monitor mixer for Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson). I think they have enough experience to know what's right.
avdude94 1 year ago
That was pretty helpful actually... thanks!
justinskate123 2 years ago
Being critical or abusive of the presenter is becoming an unattractive habit in YouTube, Rather than criticising, why not upload a video that you think is better and more accurate.
TeammaniaCom 2 years ago 2
alright this a really stupid question, but i have a PA mixer with two little speakers and i wanted to know if i could hook up like a 4x12 cab onto it in place of one of the speakers or would that not be possible.
FenderBassPlayer123 2 years ago
I think im going to get into something easier, like nuclear science. LOL
delacerdaa 2 years ago
.............................no this guy's mixes must sound either ear blowing or about as unbalanced as it gets. this guy must be rich to replace all the amps he has blown with this method
michandrz 2 years ago
Expert Village is usually not so helpful... so Im new to sound boards, where is a good place to learn to do it right? You have any tips?
mordsgaudimachen 2 years ago
there is a lot that goes into sound systems. If i where you I'd start with the basics. Yamaha makes a nice book call " the sound reinforcement handbook" that is a really good starting point. but if you're just looking for something quick and simple...........see my next comment
michandrz 2 years ago
start with routing make it so that on your board you have the stereo inserts running to you whole-house-EQ then take the stereo outs to your main amps, set your main amps to 100%, then take the mono out to your crossover, from there you take the low output to your sub amp. set the sub amp to 100% and then use the crossovers input volume and low output volume to make the subs equal in volume to the mains (pink noise with and RTA is the best way to do this)
michandrz 2 years ago
The safest and most practical way to run a modern PA is with DSP. The principle of setting your singal level on your input gains is correct but is it sensible to have your amps set below 0db? Surely you will have no control over the system volume at FOH.
jacethebase 2 years ago
this guy could not mix a cake, no less a P.A
marsh723 2 years ago
Amp gain should always be at full! Gain should be changed then on the mixer, perhaps by pulling the mains down.
jamesmelling2 2 years ago
Are you kidding me? Amps should only be turned up until you reach your desired SPL. If you need to turn it up all the way then you have to, but if you don't then you shouldn't. Turning your amps all the way up causes way more floor noise. Not to mention your meters will hardly move and you run the risk of blowing your speakers. You should also make sure you have the proper voltage capacity in your speakers because some amps can produce a lot more voltage then what a speaker can handle.
hayfrend87 2 years ago
Oh yes, sorry, you're the expert here. Oh and of course! Speaker power is, of course, measured in volts, not watts. Well, if that's the case, some amps can 'produce a lot more voltage (power) than what a speaker can handle', then you should have bought an appropriately rated amplifier, not one which is far too powerful for the speakers. If you have a decent mixer, then you should be able to set it up so that you get readings on the meters,and my mixer has input meters on each channel anyway.
jamesmelling2 2 years ago
Lol he's talking about keeping the gain down but theres some distortion on his voice :L
tomogh 2 years ago
Hey i'm a guitar player and i want to record some stuff but i don't know what's some good stuff to buy. Things i've got know is a mic which is directly plugged into the computer. Further i use a recording program but i'm not satisfied with my sound quality so my question actually is: what do i need for a reasonable recording sound quality?
scarfr156 2 years ago
All of this depends on what sound you want to acheive, nothing is set in stone for recording. The quickest and most common way is to get a decent recording software program such as Cubase or Sony Acid, and get a USB or Firewire mixing desk. Then also purchase a decent microphone, i suggest the Shure SM57. Once you has all of this equipment you will be amazed on the quality you can achive. Be sure to play around with the placement of the microphone to you amplifier or acoustic guitar.
theoriginalpopadom 2 years ago
Can any one answer this question? I'm am very green and don't know my way around equipment very well. Can you connect 4 high speakers to 1 amp with only two imputs in the back? or is it best just to buy 2 amps. I'm stupid, i know
frankiemelissa 2 years ago
hey frank im assuming that the speakers you are talking about can all plug into an amp. Depending on the power needed to power the speakers and the power that the amp can put out it depends if you can hook all 4 speakers to one amp. For work we use 4 speakers and have two jumped together and then a line into the amp and the same for the other two. Since the amp can handle the power to the speakers it is fine. If you need more help feel free to message hope that helps
crazyguy726 2 years ago
It depends on the impedence of your speakers and what impedence your amp is happy to run at.
If your amp will run at 4 ohms and you are going to run 2 x 8 ohm speakers on each channel then the answer is yes.
I suggest you google the question you asked. There are many sites other than youtube which will give you an answer, but you will have to read it, not watch a video.
cjsprrw 2 years ago
you should run your signal as hot as possible without clipping through each gain stage. This ensures the best signal to noise ratio. The final variable will be the amplifier's input sensitivity. With the master fader at 0, Turn it up the amplifier gain until it clips on the peaks, then back it off a bit. Now control the sound level in the room with the master fader on your mixer. When it is set to 0 you will have the most ideal gain possible on your system.
proaudiohd 2 years ago
I'm assuming that by "0" you meant "0 dB", otherwise I don't think we would hear anything at all eheh ;)
djsixottawa 2 years ago
I think that was the idea. By not hearing anything it gives you plenty of chance to set stuff up right without all the extra noise you don't actually need at that point.
If all you're doing it looking for clipping on meters then why do you need to also be blasting your eyes hours before a soundcheck even starts.
mryellow123 2 years ago
Idiot! you know nothing about that. You probably haven't seen any sound system equipment yet.
OyTaeMo 2 years ago
OyTaeMo: Thanks for your very mature and helpful comment which really helpes all of us getting a better understanding of what was meant so we can improve and do better.
djsixottawa 2 years ago
Hey guys FYI this vid seems to have been made so people who have never touched a sound system can't blow it up!
If you know the limits of your system and you have some skill with live sound, don't bother watching this vid, it's the idiots guide to entry sound operating.
If you want to get on the road to live sound this is a fantastic vid to get your head around 1 of the fundamentals
bigben654321 2 years ago 8
The amp gain should always be at 100%. The amp was designed to work optimally at a certain power level. Do you mixing on the console. If you have a signal coming in to hot, roll back on the channel gain, before lowering the channel fader from 0. Mix at 0! Of course thats one of those things that is simply user preference. But as far as amps go, crank em.
krazydrummer 2 years ago
I totally agree. The gain on the amps should ALWAYS be all the way up. Adjust the gain on the mixer. All pro tours have the amp gain all the way on at all times!!!
arthurkitchen 2 years ago 3
you both got a very good point but depends how powerfull your speaker rig is if you had like a 5k rig in a small hall then there not much point takeing it right up
razzor432 2 years ago
@arthurkitchen huh, what did you say ... I can't hear you, I've gone deaf ... ??
RexxWayne 1 year ago
@arthurkitchen I have to agree with you. O have to 2,500 watt amps in my rig and I keep them all the way up and adjust at the board. You get the cleanest sound this way in my opinion.
bandit7498 1 year ago
going to clip on gain structure is hazardous, I have found it always backfires, I have found it safer to not actually go to clip
ricturtle 2 years ago
Setting gain structure on a board takes a bit more than just being told what to do (i.e. as in this video). It takes experience. As well, this video is not very good for actually describing what needs to be completed for setting gain.
Primary complaint about this video... No need to move any faders to set system gain! Only adjust the knobs that control the gain. After all gain is set... then begin to bring in faders... and they be at lower than -0- and still sound good.
N0JoC0 2 years ago 2
Faders at unity is correct if your following your gain structure all the way through ie, compressor/limiters etc. For all who blieve the power amps should be full on, no matter where you set the amp it is full on. The gain control or level control is an attenutor a variable resitor that you set to control the input level which will be very hot if you've maximized your gain at each step. There is more to it but I believe this clip is good to get you started thinking about this tough topic.
Bodiger4984 2 years ago
Thank you for uploading this!!
Im on a Music Technology course at college, and we've just started Live Sound. This has really helped!
Much love! 5/5!
Laurie2733 3 years ago
Can someone tell me how should i go about this : We have a 1200w amp [EV] , 2 250w each stage monitors , 2 Peavey 750w each 3 ways passive speakers . Now my question is we are planning to buy 2 250w each Active speakers for better sound quality in the room were we use our system . If we go for it , how would we go about the mixing with the two diff. types of speaker i.e 750 passive and 250 active ?? Is this connection possible ? i am just new to the mixing scene and want to get it right .Thanks!
joshnumb 3 years ago
You treat the active and passive speakers the same way when running signals to them. The only difference is, with the active speakers, you run a signal directly to them (either from the board or x-over)... where as the passive speakers, you would run the signal (either from the board or x-over)to an amplifier that supports those passive speakers.
N0JoC0 2 years ago
The word "Volume" keeps popping up from the green crowd. Amps don't have volume controls, they have input sensitivity controls (and yes, there is more than a subtle difference).
Running your amps "full-up" is a wreckless misunderstanding of gain structure, and an even worse understanding of S/N ratio.
There are certainly many opinions shared in here, but it seems like most of them have no "field-experience" behind them.
kevinhooper07 3 years ago
your a cool man i like you
hittman837 3 years ago
I would argue that the amp gain is always set at full, giving you the maximum headroom that you might need, considering that amp racks are very accessible during a gig. Then adjust on the desk as need be.
whiteair 3 years ago 2
right back at you. Amps set full up, maybe notch top amp back a bit in 2-way system for more bottom-end when you crank masters up. Most important gain is channel input as too weak or too strong a signal here can fk sound up. Clean signal in=Clean signal out. Overall volume set from desk masters. Never seen a desk with o/p gain knob so that seems a bit too specific to that console for a 'general' setup description.
angelamccluskey 3 years ago
The ONLY thing that goes after an amp is the SPEAKER !
whiteair 3 years ago
@whiteair Ok, where would the crossover be located if you were using a , let's say, a jbl srx 712m stage monitor? Yep, after the amp.
Fewer53 7 months ago
Does a crossover go before or after the power amp? sorry for the stupid question but im new at live sound.
fsleadguitarist 3 years ago
hey fs...crossovers ALWAYS go before amplification. The crossover settings will be different depending on size of box and manufacturer so be sure to read up on your specs.
otttia 3 years ago
thanks man. as you can see, Im kind of new at live sound stuff: Im a guitarist not a tech guy.
fsleadguitarist 3 years ago
ol winterrobin dont no jack! and don't worry bout my typin or listen skills mate, im sure your a try hard wana be soundie hahaha.
i am more than compident system tech/engineer an im sure your the guy that wants want i have got hahahahahaha
soundmanstevenz 3 years ago
How loud the sound from the speaker depends on how big your system vs the venue. Nothing to do with gain structuring. Am i right? Maybe..
malmus02 3 years ago
We are not setting how loud the signal coming out from the speaker. The reason for the volume down are because we want to set up the maximum gain before clipping. After found the clipping point at the mixer,we set the volume level on the amp for clipping point. This will calibrate the clipping point for both mixer and amp. When we see the mixer clip, the amp will clip. It's all about calibrating and maximising gain.
malmus02 3 years ago
No no no no no....volume control on the amplifier??? Dependent on the size of the room? Give me a break!!
envisionelec 3 years ago
This is a very very basic way of setting up your console. Me being a professional live engineer, I don't do it this way. At least not for a large format pro console which most do not have a clip light on the channels. You need to know were does the clip like go on at +3, +6 or -3, -6. It would work on a very small basic mackie system for someone that knows nothing.
adamsoundguy 3 years ago
Ok while you guys are going on about the right and wrong ways to set up a PA can anyone recomend a sound technition to me pls. Im in mid essex.
1955mickymole 3 years ago
I dont usually post negative comments, but this way of setting up "gain structure" may work for the home studio or theater room- but its not the right way to do it in a live setting.
The mis-information thing seems to running rampid anymore.
motojeff 3 years ago
Gee Kip,
Thanks so much for perpetuating the endless cycle of misinformation.
DON"T EVER SET GAIN STRUCTURE LIKE THIS IN A LIVE SOUND SETTING!
This method may squeak by in an amateur home studio, but gain structure should NEVER be set like this in live sound!
This is what amateurs do! Audio engineer professionals and educators are tired of idiots spreading bad information STOP IT!
This gives no consideration to the physics of audio, harmonic distortion, or gain for monitors from FOH.
Sagesound 3 years ago
Actually as one of those educated designers and installers, I uses an oscilloscope, voltmeter, room analyzer, tone generator etc to do this properly, but for the average joe who this clip is directed at this will get you in the ball park. It's not misinformation its simplified information. I'd explain it pretty much the same way unless my audiance already had a foundation to build on. It's better to be close the upside down. It's Okay.
Bodiger4984 3 years ago
But a REAL console not a mackie, Buy a REAL DSP. Take Physics class. Learn about harmonic distortion. Learn about mixing monitors from FOH. Then make a video until then, you have no right...
Sagesound 3 years ago
Good point yet 99% of the guys runing sound systems are using mackies, yamahas and unfortunantly that behringer stuff and those same 99% would pefer to see things demonstrated on product they have access to. I'd think that would raise thier comfort level. I just feel this basic approach is fine for the average user and the technical approach would be way over thier heads. As far a gear goes high end or low the concept is the same.
Bodiger4984 3 years ago
Tell you what. When I have some time, I'll set a small system up with average gear, and do it this way then I'll get my test equipment fired up and see how much difference there really is between this approach and the fine tuning or tweaking we do as professionals. I'll report back and we'll at least have more to concider, share or run from.
Bodiger4984 3 years ago
Some of that 99% running Behringer gear also design equipment for a living and know how to use it. That would be me.
envisionelec 3 years ago
Great example of good information horribly taught.
Gravitized 3 years ago
Does this guy also sell used cars on weekends? Dude, read a manual.
boron57 3 years ago
why would you turn your speakers down as low as possible? you're not going to find out what the proper feedback level is if your speakers are off. This guy doesn't have a clue about what he's saying.
matt452 3 years ago
you turn your amps down because you dont want to get feedback while setting ur gain for the first time. once you have set your gain for the first time you shouldnt have to adjust your amp attenuation very much. the key to this is your amp level should be considered for feedback rather than your gain structure, as it is for matching up your equipment.. hope that helps.
kraisycircuit 3 years ago
bad advise, much to disagree.
you'll learn more by downloading the official manuals which all manufactures make available on there websites then this guy.
patcoola 3 years ago