*Expell all Salafi/Wahhabi Imams (Syed Soharwardy, Ali Hindy, Mohammed Elmasry, et al.) from Canada; close all their mosques.
*Enforce existing anti-sedition laws and arrest/deport jihadists.
*Equality: forcing women--under penalty of DEATH--to wear bags on their heads isn't some sort of 'enlightened, feminist' thing: just the mark of a wretched, misogynist culture that considers women's bodies disgusting and frightening (and allows pederasty).
the religion of islam was not responsible for this and other killings of family honor..
If the shoe fits.....
The religion of Islam is itself responsible for molding the public image by its history of violence toward their own families and intolerance of other faiths.. are you ignorant of your own history...
The religion of Islam is .... are you ignorant of your own history
Response..
DUDE there are Histories not history.. depends on which history book you read.. unless you have space-time travel machine to prove it..all these history thingy are just matter of Gibberish OPINIONS not Facts
coz we read in your history book that America belong to white people ..there were NO "Anawakah" Natives belong to the land that this America raped
Islam might have extremists might be pretty badass, but we dont have no KKK's bud, who think it is "unholy" to have non-white people on the face of this planet. Like the guy said in the video, you demonstrated:
evidence........islam was not responsible
Dont you agree with innocent until proven guilty? This is why christian people like the one in the video convert, because Islam has logical background and love
Lepanto2012-"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)
First of all it is NOT Verse 9:121
Second The whole Chapter (9) talk when PPL LIKE U OPEN WAR on Muslims or any PPL being FIRST To START the HOSTILITY [[ Being FIRST TO ASSULT YOU]][9:12-13].
Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Apostle, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you[9:12-13].
Why is there NO church, temple of other faith in Mecca. Why there is Mosque in heart of holy place of Christian, Hindus , Jews and Buddhist and others.
Theologically speaking. Abraham built the kabaan which is in Mecca. Abraham was not a Christian or a Jew, he was simply one who fell on his face (Genesis) and worshiped Allmighty God. Then his progeny Moses, and Noah worshiped God and their progeny Jesus worshiped God. Why is it wrong that where the house built by Abraham has no house that worships three Gods or a hose that doesn't recognize Jesus peace be with him?
Dogmas can be either Christian, either Islam, etc. The trouble begins when somebody takes dogma above common sense and pure faith, which has nothing to do with religion. Unfortunately, Christians too killed in the name of religion many times along history.
I'm sorry but you're wrong. If a Christian ever killed anyone throughout history they did it in spite of Jesus' message. There is nothing in Christianity that calls for murder. Unfortunately not all religions are the same. Islam repeatedly calls for killing unbelievers - ie. non-Muslims. People may do the killing, but there is a central document that links Muslims that kill - the commandments of the Koran.
Perhaps we should all try a little bit harder to take the truth as authority instead of authority as truth. The colonization of American continent was entirely made with one hand on the cross the other on the sword. In the name of Christianity.
I agree that the New Testament somehow pacifies the message from the first one, but if we are to judge religions we must do so based on more than just one book.
The new testament doesn't pacify the old - it completely obliterates it. Jesus established a new covenant - wherein the only thing that matters is a personal relationship with him. The old laws of the old testament were rendered completely meaningless as Jesus message was a quantum leap over "laws."
Nilloc99 - How can you change the words of Jesus? This is what has happened over hundreds of years, people have unfortunately changed the words to suit themselves. Jesus said in Matthew:
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
I'm not changing the words I'm saying he ushered in a new era. Jesus fulfils the law by fulfilling the prophecy that he would come. Another way to look at it is that Jesus sums up the entire law in one phrase: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it:"love your neighbour as yourself." Matt 22:37-39 That's sure different from the first commandment in the Old Testament and a much higher standard to follow.
The bottom line is that at this point in history there aren't thousands of Christians out there killing in Christs name. "Love your neighbour as yourself," certainly sounds different than "slay idolators wherever you find them, etc, etc." You see, Christians would pray for Christ to save idolators whereas true Muslims would carry out the death contract in Sura 9:5 on idolators, Christians, Jews and any un-believer. Do you deny Allah's divine commandment in Sura 9:5 (and dozens of others)?
nilloc99, I am a Muslim and I pray that God guides you that you discontinue generalizing, please please. I pray for those that associate any greatness with God. I do not want war and bombs and trade embargoes and missiles. Open your eyes and see who is really killing the most. One bomb can kill 250 000 people in one time. Billions of people are suffering due to greed itself.
I am not generalizing anything. I am giving very specific references from the Koran or from current events - none of which you respond to directly. I respond diretly to your Bible quotes and you deflect. You seed partial truths and politically correct answers in our discussions, all the while knowing the truth about what the Koran really says. I know you are allowed to lie to advance your faith - that too is in the Koran. This is why we can't have an honest, enlightened conversation.
Surah 9:5 says only to kill if those try to kill you. If they stop then God commands the others to stop. We need more space then these small youtube windows to have a meaningful and interesting discussion. I must say I do appreciate your candor and I can see where your feelings may stem from based on the actions of Christians and Muslims alike.
Actually Moses in the old testament said the most important commandment was Deut. 6:4 reads, in the KJV, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD," the meaning is clear: the Israelites are a monotheistic people, worshipping only one God. One of the major difficulties in early Christian theology, in fact, was reconciling this verse with Trinitarianism, For Jews (and later for Muslims): there is only one God.
nilloc99 I agree with you. Jesus fulfilled the prophecy of the earlier Prophets.
If we are to discuss faith instead, then it's about people and the way they understand and apply the morals, not the form of their writing. There are good things and bad things about all religions and all books. The ones who puts the words before their own common sense and morality are just criminal cowards hiding behind a book.
I've met very good and honorable Islamic people, as well as Catholic and Orthodox ones. I've also met cowards and scums calling themselves Islamics or Christians. In my opinion the last ones were just not human beings, period. Beyond that, every argument about their religious beliefs fades away. No "central document" justifies killing, it doesn't matter if it is a religious holly book or a political decree.
We believe in Jesus' message as well. My brother in humanity you are certainly misunderstanding the Qur'an, nowhere does it speak of violence in itself. It does speak of defense however which is a God given right. God says in the Qur'an to fight those who will fight you but once they stop fighting to then stop yourselves for God does not like transgressors.
I know in your heart, you can't read the Koran and believe that it doesn't advocate violence. One clear example is that it decrees that you kill anyone that insults the profit - how is that a "defence" by any reasonable definition? This is also played out in the streets time and again where groups of Muslims call for killing and murder because someone publishes "offensive" cartoons, or makes an "offensive" film about Islam.
God given right????? God never told anyone to use violence. Violence is against nature of God. What if I said that "God told me to kill Muslims". Would that make sense to you? See how ridiculous that statement is?
It is a right to defend yourself. You forget that Moses (PBOH) was defending a Hebrew man from an Egyptian who was abusing him and ended up killing him. This is in the bible and this is the great Prophet that brought us the 10 commandments. Are you saying that Moses was wrong to try to defend the Hebrew man from oppression? I agree I abhor violence but let me ask you this, if a man comes to grab your daughter would you not defend her?
Events in the Bible are split into two very distinct eras - before Christ and after Christ. Old testament allowed a measured response in defence (ie. an eye for an eye). Jesus' radical message in the New Testament was that love ruled all - forget the laws of the Old Testament. In fact Jesus message went as far as to command us to even love and pray for our enemies.
Nowhere does it condone violence in the Qur'an other than in self defense as also exemplified by Moses' situation in the bible. If the oppression of the people stop than the other side must stop. God also is Just and does not like oppression, whether financial, sexual, economic, social, exemplified in the past by the treatment of American Indians, African Americans, Immigrant Mexicans, sexualized and Pornofied Women.... I digress.
As a Muslim there is nowhere I am told to hate anyone as we are all God's creation and children of Adam. I am to extend my hand in peace to you. I can not help that the actions of human beings do not exemplify the teachings of their respective religions. Why northern Ireland? Slave trade? Spanish Inquisition? Rawanda? Bosnia? In fact Saint Augustine said cognite intrare ("lead them in"—i.e. "force them to convert").
I would say all offensive violence muslims do is in spite of their relgion. All violence Christians do is in spite of their religion. All viloence Jews do is in spite of their religion. All are Abrahamic faiths, Jesus coming from Isaac and Muhammad from Ishamel as God told Abraham in Genesis 21:13
"And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed."
Referring to Hagar the mother of Ishamel. All praises be to God as we believe Muhammad was a seal of the prophet hood as Jesus said in John 15:26 John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:" . . .
Interesting that Muhammad PBOH testified to Jesus' prophethood and the Quran speaks of Jesus more than it does of Muhammad. If Muhammad wanted to raise himself why would he veerate Jesus all allocate even more miracles to Jesus than was spoken in the bible. IE: That Jesus spoke in the cradle in order to clear MAry Peace be upon her of wrong doing. I tell you the Quran is the truth and it is protected and it only serves to agree with Jesus' teachings...
if only you will look into it and not believe what the satan's system is marketing. the same system that feeds alcohol, porn, drugs, into the environment is the ones who control the media, and marketing.
We must agree to disagree. I read the Koran and I am afraid for the future of my children as Christians. I look at what you would call defence of your faith - and I see truly deluded people on TV calling for death because of words that someone spoke about Mohammed. This is not defence, this is offence. If I call Mohammed an imposter and a liar - should I be put to death? You are peaceful so perhaps not, but you must know that the majority of your brothers would like to kill me for saying that.
Peace. Why is it that you believe over 2 Billion people on the earth believe in this evil doctrine you profess we do when the examples of large scale violence in the last century has been attributed elsewhere. How many people die each day from Drugs, violence, rapes, murders, assaults, robberies in the streets of our homes here in NA? I am fearful that my child can not walk alone and gets bullied at school and this is not because I am Muslim.
I tell you it is a battle for our souls and it is not between the Jews, Christians and Muslims it is people from each faith that are Godless now who have replaced GOD with money, greed and power. These are the ones I worry about and these are the ones who have started to control the earth. And they do it with stealth. Look at the violence in our own towns, look at the porn revenues, drugs, poverty, crime, Something IS FOOLING US ALL
Even Muhammad's PBOH enemies during his life could not say he was this things. When people tried to kill and torture them they defended themselves. Isn't that what the "home of the free" is doing bombing everyone...defending itself...couldn't possibly be about the oil... you criticize Muslims for not speaking...why don't you as a Christian speak against the violence which has occurred and are occurring in the name of your religion...
May God guide you to know that I as a Muslim would never hurt you, but would it be wrong of me to defend myself if you were to try to harm me or mine...? We are human beings. You must know the context of verse just as you want me to know.
Your violence is ok and yet you speak of peace. Your way can bomb the living daylights out of nation upon nation but deny any right of defense. You are not interested in knowing the truth. I say I am a peaceful Muslim but you will not welcome me in a peaceful manner and deny me the acknowledgment of my existence as one who wants peace, yet at every turn you are the one with hatred in your voice.
I haven't met you. I'm not talking about you, and if you say you are a peaceful person (Muslim or not) then we are brothers. I don't condone fighting of any kind, and right now there is no fighting going on in the "name of Christianity." Nations are secular entities - whether lead by a Christian/Buddhist/Sikh or Muslim.
Trouble = 2 million of US population in Jail. Murders. Sexual Assaults. People starving while others are eating $400 dinners. Drug infested ghettos. People scared to walk alone at night in their towns. The problem of violence is a human problem and not every Christian is following their faith correctly as well as not every Muslim is following thir faith correctly. It is a human problem. It isn't a Muslim problem in the West, the problem is Greed, Power, Anger, Fear, Intolerance.
I'm not sure I mentioned this, I was born, baptized and consider myself an Orthodox Christian. I know there are good things and bad things in my religion but I also know one more thing: it does not define me as human being with the ability to think, decide and act on myself. And I never confound my religion with my inner belief, which cannot be contained in just one book or confession. There's one I do appreciate about oriental budhist philosophies, and that is tolerance.
The issue at hand is that all of the religions of the earth that invite, encourage and thrive on investigation and questioning - except one. Islam does not allow any questioning of the Koran and in fact the Islamic tradition dictates that the Koran is the only thing necessary for enlightenment. One proof is that there were more books translated into Spanish last year, than into Arabic (Islam's native tongue) in the last 1,000 years.
There are very simple reasons behind this reality which you seem to deny.
Christianity is a religion of love and nowhere does it admonish followers to kill, mock, or insult anyone - even one's enemies.
The Koran instructs devout followers to "kill," "maim," and "insult" anyone that turns from the faith - or in fact anyone that isn't a devout Muslim. So much for the "religion of peace."
Thanks for the lesson. For your reference please check out the ENTIRE NEW TESTAMENT which supplants the laws of the Old Testament. Jesus' entire ministry was based on love - for God, for each other.
Any evil act committed by a so-called Christian is done in spite of their faith. Any evil act committed by a Muslim is done to fulfil their faith.
I am truly sorry you feel this way, while of course it is an understandable human feeling. To truly open our hearts to know each other we must sit with each other. As soon as you believe I hate because I am required to do so by Islam we have lost the ability to speak.
As we are all sons of Adam we must find our commonalities. I have read the new testament. I was a Christian. I urge you to read the Qur'an, it is a from God. It speaks the truth of Jesus. Jesus said to worship GOD. He prayed to GOD and said in the garden... father take this cup away from me.
Nilloc99 - My friend Jesus said the one who does not do a jot in the law will be the least in the kingdom of heaven so your proposal that Muslims are fulfilling their law by doing violence you should look at the quote of Jesus PBOH where he said he had come to fufill the laws of the prophets and not to break them. And by the way Luke is in the New Testament no the Old Testament so I guess there goes your theory in spite of eloquent argument.
Nilloc99 May God bless you and may you come to realize that God requires us to accept the messages of all the prophets and Muslims must believe in Jesus and his message of Peace as well. PBOH. As a Muslim it pains me to see violence done in the name of any religion.
Please don't denigrate my Saviour's existance. He needs not your "Peace." Odd that it pains you to see violence - I suspect you are not really a Muslim. I have my Koran right in front of me and it spews forth hatred and violence in its confused and contradictory passages. It's odd that a majority of your brothers and sisters (even in liberal western democracies) support violence and suicide bombings and you do not. Why is this so? Do you not believe the words of the "Prophet?"
Say no to hatred and generalizations. We are all sons and daughters of Adam. Who is really destroying society? Who is the one feeding our children violence everywhere they turn around. Who is setting up a land of disadvantaged, distributing drugs, selling porn, selling enlightenment in a capitalistic dream.... It is rich against poor, privileged against positioned. Satan and his earthly system is pitting us against each other while we both want the same for our children.
I'm not using generalizations. I'm being specific about what the Koran says. You're referencing oppression and the disadvantaged? What is this about?
As far as children goes - I've seen too many Muslim mothers interviewed who claim it would be their greatest honour to have their kids kill themselves in allahs name to even think that REAL Muslims care about peace, people or anything sacred. Again, if you do - you're not a true Muslim. It must be your Christian roots coming out.
I have to say I am a true Muslim. I was not born a Christian, just as Adam, peace be upon him was not born a Christian. My parents were Christian so I grew up Christian, but I found the message of all the prophets. Worship God alone. All our born in submission to God's laws. I follow Christ's message to worship the Creator. He who created Christ as a word from HIM.
I do not believe the action of a Christian country when they dropped the atomic bomb killing hundreds of 1000s of innocents was a Christian act. I don't think it is Christian to hate anyone but it is a human reaction when your children are being oppressed. Let me be Muslim (one who submits) and let me hope for peace, why do you wish to deny me that, why do you wish to deny the existence of that?
In no way was this a Christian act. Nations have the right to defend themselves. Nations are not "Christian." Are you suggesting that the Allied countries is WW2 should have simply let the Germans, Italians and Japanese walk through Europe, the Pacific and Africa taking any nation they chose? I doubt you think that. I am genuinely interested in the oppression you are talking about. Could you elaborate?
Yes it is sad to hear that these mothers exist. What force must exist to push anyone to a state where they believe in the sacrifice of their begotten son to stand up against the bombs that drop and kill indiscriminately. It is a very sad thing indeed. It is an act of complete desperation. If only they could afford trillion dollar military operations which kill 1000s at a time things would be so much better eh?
I would argue that yes Jesus needs our peace as it was his message to us my brother. We say Peace be upon all prophets of God. This is why we do not replicate their image in any form. We will not paint a different picture of Jesus PBOH for each church we follow his core message. Peace be upon him, God is ONE. Jesus will come again as prophesied so how can he then say his blood will save us. I believe he will refute Paul's message with his message again.
Please do me a favour and READ. The entire chapter. This is Jesus telling a parable (an object lesson) and those words are not a commandment from Jesus but Jesus quoting what someone else said. Nice try. Keep going - that's the best part about Christianity with more questioning comes enlightenment. That is the failing of Islam is that it can only exist in ignorance.
You misquote the Qur'an and won't read the full context. Why are the rules are different for you? I see much truth in the bible as I was a Christian but Jesus was not a Christian he told us to worship God not him. Where in the Qur'an do you see all this violence? Let me shed some light on it as well. Jesus PBOH told us there would be another prophet to follow before he came... will you deny any prophet to come now. Is defending one who is being oppressed not a Christian ideal?
Sigh. You Muslims have got to be the thickest human beings to ever have breathed. Do you not get it that the man killed his daughter IN THE NAME OF HIS RELIGION? What's so hard to understand? Other criminals aren't identified by faith, because they commit no crimes in the name of their faith, they do it for other reasons. With the masses of crimes committed in the name of Allah, maybe it's time for YOU to examine your double standards.
JohnTrinny, you bring up an interesting question but I have to ask just who is saying he killed his daughter in the name of his religion? How do we know what the reasons were that this unfortunate incident happened? We you there? This man has an older daughter that does not wear the hijab yet she remains alive? You lynch us as the black man was lynched years ago; before the evidence has been shown. You are judge, jury and executioner and whatever we say you will find fault in it.
1. Your statement reeks of personal bias as you say Us Muslims have to be the thickest human beings. You yourself in this statement exemplify the situation that we everyday. You generalize all of us together. I have never hurt another human physically yet I bear the burden of every misplaced act that even .01% of my Muslim brothers may have done however you as a US or Canadian (I am Canadian), when a Canadian kills do not bear this burden.
I am a Christian but before all I am a human being capable of objectively thinking for myself. Therefore I cannot resist replying to JohnTrinny that we, Christians, DID KILLED IN THE NAME OF OUR RELIGION many times during our history. It doesn't matter whether we were Orthodoxes, Catholics or whatever. We did killed. But this has nothing to do with a certain person's faith, not even its religion. Killing is something PEOPLE do, not religions.
The first chronological judge for murder is not the priest or your religion, but ones conscience and the second one is God, or Allah, no matter how you call him. We all believe in the same thing, only we're too blinded by appearance to see the essential.
Well, you are right about the media but that reflect the fear that a lot of people have towards Islam, me included. We are afraid of Islam wanting to change our secular state and impose Sharia. We are afraid of the way some muslim man comming from more conservative country think about women. Is Islam really compatible with a modern secular state? I ask you and hope we can find bridges. Peace be upon us.
1. I can not walk down the street after 10PM in my Canadian City for fear of a mugging, neither can my non Muslim friends and relatives and this is not from Sharia. I can't go into some spots without being propositioned for drugs and this is not because of Sharia. Before fearing Sharia lets wake up; in the US 2 million people are in jails, a rape occurs every few seconds, there are murder upon murder. Is this indicative upon how our society views women.
2. I am a Canadian who happens to be Muslim and white and I am fearful for my girls and it certainly isn't because of Sharia law it is because of the situation that exists today from my fellow Canadians and how I see due to the stats that we as a society deal with women and our weak.
'Triple E' suggestions (from a non-Muslim male):
*Expell all Salafi/Wahhabi Imams (Syed Soharwardy, Ali Hindy, Mohammed Elmasry, et al.) from Canada; close all their mosques.
*Enforce existing anti-sedition laws and arrest/deport jihadists.
*Equality: forcing women--under penalty of DEATH--to wear bags on their heads isn't some sort of 'enlightened, feminist' thing: just the mark of a wretched, misogynist culture that considers women's bodies disgusting and frightening (and allows pederasty).
acsial 3 years ago
its interesting that no evidence is given that
the religion of islam was not responsible for this and other killings of family honor..
If the shoe fits.....
The religion of Islam is itself responsible for molding the public image by its history of violence toward their own families and intolerance of other faiths.. are you ignorant of your own history...
gerry37g 3 years ago
gerry37g- -
The religion of Islam is .... are you ignorant of your own history
Response..
DUDE there are Histories not history.. depends on which history book you read.. unless you have space-time travel machine to prove it..all these history thingy are just matter of Gibberish OPINIONS not Facts
coz we read in your history book that America belong to white people ..there were NO "Anawakah" Natives belong to the land that this America raped
ammannojacku 3 years ago
are you kidding me????
Islam might have extremists might be pretty badass, but we dont have no KKK's bud, who think it is "unholy" to have non-white people on the face of this planet. Like the guy said in the video, you demonstrated:
evidence........islam was not responsible
Dont you agree with innocent until proven guilty? This is why christian people like the one in the video convert, because Islam has logical background and love
teenagemuslim 3 years ago
"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)
Lepanto2012 3 years ago
Lepanto2012-"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)
First of all it is NOT Verse 9:121
Second The whole Chapter (9) talk when PPL LIKE U OPEN WAR on Muslims or any PPL being FIRST To START the HOSTILITY [[ Being FIRST TO ASSULT YOU]][9:12-13].
Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Apostle, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you[9:12-13].
ammannojacku 3 years ago
Great video, Jazakallah brother
adilbro 4 years ago
Why is there NO church, temple of other faith in Mecca. Why there is Mosque in heart of holy place of Christian, Hindus , Jews and Buddhist and others.
This alone will speaks volumes about Islam.
Tendagami 4 years ago
Theologically speaking. Abraham built the kabaan which is in Mecca. Abraham was not a Christian or a Jew, he was simply one who fell on his face (Genesis) and worshiped Allmighty God. Then his progeny Moses, and Noah worshiped God and their progeny Jesus worshiped God. Why is it wrong that where the house built by Abraham has no house that worships three Gods or a hose that doesn't recognize Jesus peace be with him?
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
Hi there,there our no churches or the like in mecca for the saying of our prophet(pbh)"let there be no two religions in Arabia"(Arabian peninsula)
FISABILILAHI 4 years ago
That means intolerance. Why you want mosque in holy place of Hindus, Christian and Buddhist and others.
Tendagami 4 years ago
becos its not in arabia
bd9mc 3 years ago
But then why Islam want to spread to other region if it doesn't want others to come to your place.
Its is common sense not "Its Give and Take" not My Road or Highway.
Tendagami 3 years ago
Denial is the hallmark of the Muslims. They say women have equal rights but they can't stay along with man.
Man can have four wives but not vice versa. They want to Built Mosque in very heart of other faith but not in Mecca.
Tendagami 4 years ago
Dogmas can be either Christian, either Islam, etc. The trouble begins when somebody takes dogma above common sense and pure faith, which has nothing to do with religion. Unfortunately, Christians too killed in the name of religion many times along history.
icflorescu 4 years ago
I'm sorry but you're wrong. If a Christian ever killed anyone throughout history they did it in spite of Jesus' message. There is nothing in Christianity that calls for murder. Unfortunately not all religions are the same. Islam repeatedly calls for killing unbelievers - ie. non-Muslims. People may do the killing, but there is a central document that links Muslims that kill - the commandments of the Koran.
nilloc99 4 years ago
Perhaps we should all try a little bit harder to take the truth as authority instead of authority as truth. The colonization of American continent was entirely made with one hand on the cross the other on the sword. In the name of Christianity.
I agree that the New Testament somehow pacifies the message from the first one, but if we are to judge religions we must do so based on more than just one book.
icflorescu 4 years ago
icflor,
The new testament doesn't pacify the old - it completely obliterates it. Jesus established a new covenant - wherein the only thing that matters is a personal relationship with him. The old laws of the old testament were rendered completely meaningless as Jesus message was a quantum leap over "laws."
nilloc99 4 years ago
Nilloc99 - How can you change the words of Jesus? This is what has happened over hundreds of years, people have unfortunately changed the words to suit themselves. Jesus said in Matthew:
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
— Matt 5:17 (NIV)
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
I'm not changing the words I'm saying he ushered in a new era. Jesus fulfils the law by fulfilling the prophecy that he would come. Another way to look at it is that Jesus sums up the entire law in one phrase: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it:"love your neighbour as yourself." Matt 22:37-39 That's sure different from the first commandment in the Old Testament and a much higher standard to follow.
nilloc99 4 years ago
The bottom line is that at this point in history there aren't thousands of Christians out there killing in Christs name. "Love your neighbour as yourself," certainly sounds different than "slay idolators wherever you find them, etc, etc." You see, Christians would pray for Christ to save idolators whereas true Muslims would carry out the death contract in Sura 9:5 on idolators, Christians, Jews and any un-believer. Do you deny Allah's divine commandment in Sura 9:5 (and dozens of others)?
nilloc99 4 years ago
nilloc99, I am a Muslim and I pray that God guides you that you discontinue generalizing, please please. I pray for those that associate any greatness with God. I do not want war and bombs and trade embargoes and missiles. Open your eyes and see who is really killing the most. One bomb can kill 250 000 people in one time. Billions of people are suffering due to greed itself.
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
I am not generalizing anything. I am giving very specific references from the Koran or from current events - none of which you respond to directly. I respond diretly to your Bible quotes and you deflect. You seed partial truths and politically correct answers in our discussions, all the while knowing the truth about what the Koran really says. I know you are allowed to lie to advance your faith - that too is in the Koran. This is why we can't have an honest, enlightened conversation.
nilloc99 4 years ago
Surah 9:5 says only to kill if those try to kill you. If they stop then God commands the others to stop. We need more space then these small youtube windows to have a meaningful and interesting discussion. I must say I do appreciate your candor and I can see where your feelings may stem from based on the actions of Christians and Muslims alike.
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
Actually Moses in the old testament said the most important commandment was Deut. 6:4 reads, in the KJV, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD," the meaning is clear: the Israelites are a monotheistic people, worshipping only one God. One of the major difficulties in early Christian theology, in fact, was reconciling this verse with Trinitarianism, For Jews (and later for Muslims): there is only one God.
nilloc99 I agree with you. Jesus fulfilled the prophecy of the earlier Prophets.
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
If we are to discuss faith instead, then it's about people and the way they understand and apply the morals, not the form of their writing. There are good things and bad things about all religions and all books. The ones who puts the words before their own common sense and morality are just criminal cowards hiding behind a book.
icflorescu 4 years ago
I've met very good and honorable Islamic people, as well as Catholic and Orthodox ones. I've also met cowards and scums calling themselves Islamics or Christians. In my opinion the last ones were just not human beings, period. Beyond that, every argument about their religious beliefs fades away. No "central document" justifies killing, it doesn't matter if it is a religious holly book or a political decree.
icflorescu 4 years ago
We believe in Jesus' message as well. My brother in humanity you are certainly misunderstanding the Qur'an, nowhere does it speak of violence in itself. It does speak of defense however which is a God given right. God says in the Qur'an to fight those who will fight you but once they stop fighting to then stop yourselves for God does not like transgressors.
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
PNP (if I can shorten your name),
I know in your heart, you can't read the Koran and believe that it doesn't advocate violence. One clear example is that it decrees that you kill anyone that insults the profit - how is that a "defence" by any reasonable definition? This is also played out in the streets time and again where groups of Muslims call for killing and murder because someone publishes "offensive" cartoons, or makes an "offensive" film about Islam.
nilloc99 4 years ago
God given right????? God never told anyone to use violence. Violence is against nature of God. What if I said that "God told me to kill Muslims". Would that make sense to you? See how ridiculous that statement is?
jts47 4 years ago
It is a right to defend yourself. You forget that Moses (PBOH) was defending a Hebrew man from an Egyptian who was abusing him and ended up killing him. This is in the bible and this is the great Prophet that brought us the 10 commandments. Are you saying that Moses was wrong to try to defend the Hebrew man from oppression? I agree I abhor violence but let me ask you this, if a man comes to grab your daughter would you not defend her?
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
Events in the Bible are split into two very distinct eras - before Christ and after Christ. Old testament allowed a measured response in defence (ie. an eye for an eye). Jesus' radical message in the New Testament was that love ruled all - forget the laws of the Old Testament. In fact Jesus message went as far as to command us to even love and pray for our enemies.
nilloc99 4 years ago
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
— Matt 5:17 (NIV)
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
Nowhere does it condone violence in the Qur'an other than in self defense as also exemplified by Moses' situation in the bible. If the oppression of the people stop than the other side must stop. God also is Just and does not like oppression, whether financial, sexual, economic, social, exemplified in the past by the treatment of American Indians, African Americans, Immigrant Mexicans, sexualized and Pornofied Women.... I digress.
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
As a Muslim there is nowhere I am told to hate anyone as we are all God's creation and children of Adam. I am to extend my hand in peace to you. I can not help that the actions of human beings do not exemplify the teachings of their respective religions. Why northern Ireland? Slave trade? Spanish Inquisition? Rawanda? Bosnia? In fact Saint Augustine said cognite intrare ("lead them in"—i.e. "force them to convert").
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
I would say all offensive violence muslims do is in spite of their relgion. All violence Christians do is in spite of their religion. All viloence Jews do is in spite of their religion. All are Abrahamic faiths, Jesus coming from Isaac and Muhammad from Ishamel as God told Abraham in Genesis 21:13
"And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed."
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
Referring to Hagar the mother of Ishamel. All praises be to God as we believe Muhammad was a seal of the prophet hood as Jesus said in John 15:26 John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:" . . .
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
Interesting that Muhammad PBOH testified to Jesus' prophethood and the Quran speaks of Jesus more than it does of Muhammad. If Muhammad wanted to raise himself why would he veerate Jesus all allocate even more miracles to Jesus than was spoken in the bible. IE: That Jesus spoke in the cradle in order to clear MAry Peace be upon her of wrong doing. I tell you the Quran is the truth and it is protected and it only serves to agree with Jesus' teachings...
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
if only you will look into it and not believe what the satan's system is marketing. the same system that feeds alcohol, porn, drugs, into the environment is the ones who control the media, and marketing.
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
We must agree to disagree. I read the Koran and I am afraid for the future of my children as Christians. I look at what you would call defence of your faith - and I see truly deluded people on TV calling for death because of words that someone spoke about Mohammed. This is not defence, this is offence. If I call Mohammed an imposter and a liar - should I be put to death? You are peaceful so perhaps not, but you must know that the majority of your brothers would like to kill me for saying that.
nilloc99 4 years ago
Peace. Why is it that you believe over 2 Billion people on the earth believe in this evil doctrine you profess we do when the examples of large scale violence in the last century has been attributed elsewhere. How many people die each day from Drugs, violence, rapes, murders, assaults, robberies in the streets of our homes here in NA? I am fearful that my child can not walk alone and gets bullied at school and this is not because I am Muslim.
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
I tell you it is a battle for our souls and it is not between the Jews, Christians and Muslims it is people from each faith that are Godless now who have replaced GOD with money, greed and power. These are the ones I worry about and these are the ones who have started to control the earth. And they do it with stealth. Look at the violence in our own towns, look at the porn revenues, drugs, poverty, crime, Something IS FOOLING US ALL
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
Islam=peace every where!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
nizarbabayrayjam 4 years ago
Name the religious authorities you speak of.
Even Muhammad's PBOH enemies during his life could not say he was this things. When people tried to kill and torture them they defended themselves. Isn't that what the "home of the free" is doing bombing everyone...defending itself...couldn't possibly be about the oil... you criticize Muslims for not speaking...why don't you as a Christian speak against the violence which has occurred and are occurring in the name of your religion...
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
May God guide you to know that I as a Muslim would never hurt you, but would it be wrong of me to defend myself if you were to try to harm me or mine...? We are human beings. You must know the context of verse just as you want me to know.
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
Your violence is ok and yet you speak of peace. Your way can bomb the living daylights out of nation upon nation but deny any right of defense. You are not interested in knowing the truth. I say I am a peaceful Muslim but you will not welcome me in a peaceful manner and deny me the acknowledgment of my existence as one who wants peace, yet at every turn you are the one with hatred in your voice.
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
I haven't met you. I'm not talking about you, and if you say you are a peaceful person (Muslim or not) then we are brothers. I don't condone fighting of any kind, and right now there is no fighting going on in the "name of Christianity." Nations are secular entities - whether lead by a Christian/Buddhist/Sikh or Muslim.
nilloc99 4 years ago
Trouble = 2 million of US population in Jail. Murders. Sexual Assaults. People starving while others are eating $400 dinners. Drug infested ghettos. People scared to walk alone at night in their towns. The problem of violence is a human problem and not every Christian is following their faith correctly as well as not every Muslim is following thir faith correctly. It is a human problem. It isn't a Muslim problem in the West, the problem is Greed, Power, Anger, Fear, Intolerance.
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
I'm not sure I mentioned this, I was born, baptized and consider myself an Orthodox Christian. I know there are good things and bad things in my religion but I also know one more thing: it does not define me as human being with the ability to think, decide and act on myself. And I never confound my religion with my inner belief, which cannot be contained in just one book or confession. There's one I do appreciate about oriental budhist philosophies, and that is tolerance.
icflorescu 4 years ago
Sorry, this was meant to be a continued reply for nilloc99's post below.
icflorescu 4 years ago
The issue at hand is that all of the religions of the earth that invite, encourage and thrive on investigation and questioning - except one. Islam does not allow any questioning of the Koran and in fact the Islamic tradition dictates that the Koran is the only thing necessary for enlightenment. One proof is that there were more books translated into Spanish last year, than into Arabic (Islam's native tongue) in the last 1,000 years.
nilloc99 4 years ago
My good friend,
There are very simple reasons behind this reality which you seem to deny.
Christianity is a religion of love and nowhere does it admonish followers to kill, mock, or insult anyone - even one's enemies.
The Koran instructs devout followers to "kill," "maim," and "insult" anyone that turns from the faith - or in fact anyone that isn't a devout Muslim. So much for the "religion of peace."
nilloc99 4 years ago
Hmmmm you have not been reading your bible lately. Check out this verse.
Luke 19:27
King James Bible
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
Thanks for the lesson. For your reference please check out the ENTIRE NEW TESTAMENT which supplants the laws of the Old Testament. Jesus' entire ministry was based on love - for God, for each other.
Any evil act committed by a so-called Christian is done in spite of their faith. Any evil act committed by a Muslim is done to fulfil their faith.
nilloc99 4 years ago
I am truly sorry you feel this way, while of course it is an understandable human feeling. To truly open our hearts to know each other we must sit with each other. As soon as you believe I hate because I am required to do so by Islam we have lost the ability to speak.
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
As we are all sons of Adam we must find our commonalities. I have read the new testament. I was a Christian. I urge you to read the Qur'an, it is a from God. It speaks the truth of Jesus. Jesus said to worship GOD. He prayed to GOD and said in the garden... father take this cup away from me.
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
Nilloc99 - My friend Jesus said the one who does not do a jot in the law will be the least in the kingdom of heaven so your proposal that Muslims are fulfilling their law by doing violence you should look at the quote of Jesus PBOH where he said he had come to fufill the laws of the prophets and not to break them. And by the way Luke is in the New Testament no the Old Testament so I guess there goes your theory in spite of eloquent argument.
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
Nilloc99 May God bless you and may you come to realize that God requires us to accept the messages of all the prophets and Muslims must believe in Jesus and his message of Peace as well. PBOH. As a Muslim it pains me to see violence done in the name of any religion.
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
Please don't denigrate my Saviour's existance. He needs not your "Peace." Odd that it pains you to see violence - I suspect you are not really a Muslim. I have my Koran right in front of me and it spews forth hatred and violence in its confused and contradictory passages. It's odd that a majority of your brothers and sisters (even in liberal western democracies) support violence and suicide bombings and you do not. Why is this so? Do you not believe the words of the "Prophet?"
nilloc99 4 years ago
Say no to hatred and generalizations. We are all sons and daughters of Adam. Who is really destroying society? Who is the one feeding our children violence everywhere they turn around. Who is setting up a land of disadvantaged, distributing drugs, selling porn, selling enlightenment in a capitalistic dream.... It is rich against poor, privileged against positioned. Satan and his earthly system is pitting us against each other while we both want the same for our children.
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
I'm not using generalizations. I'm being specific about what the Koran says. You're referencing oppression and the disadvantaged? What is this about?
As far as children goes - I've seen too many Muslim mothers interviewed who claim it would be their greatest honour to have their kids kill themselves in allahs name to even think that REAL Muslims care about peace, people or anything sacred. Again, if you do - you're not a true Muslim. It must be your Christian roots coming out.
nilloc99 4 years ago
I have to say I am a true Muslim. I was not born a Christian, just as Adam, peace be upon him was not born a Christian. My parents were Christian so I grew up Christian, but I found the message of all the prophets. Worship God alone. All our born in submission to God's laws. I follow Christ's message to worship the Creator. He who created Christ as a word from HIM.
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
I do not believe the action of a Christian country when they dropped the atomic bomb killing hundreds of 1000s of innocents was a Christian act. I don't think it is Christian to hate anyone but it is a human reaction when your children are being oppressed. Let me be Muslim (one who submits) and let me hope for peace, why do you wish to deny me that, why do you wish to deny the existence of that?
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
In no way was this a Christian act. Nations have the right to defend themselves. Nations are not "Christian." Are you suggesting that the Allied countries is WW2 should have simply let the Germans, Italians and Japanese walk through Europe, the Pacific and Africa taking any nation they chose? I doubt you think that. I am genuinely interested in the oppression you are talking about. Could you elaborate?
nilloc99 4 years ago
Yes it is sad to hear that these mothers exist. What force must exist to push anyone to a state where they believe in the sacrifice of their begotten son to stand up against the bombs that drop and kill indiscriminately. It is a very sad thing indeed. It is an act of complete desperation. If only they could afford trillion dollar military operations which kill 1000s at a time things would be so much better eh?
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
I would argue that yes Jesus needs our peace as it was his message to us my brother. We say Peace be upon all prophets of God. This is why we do not replicate their image in any form. We will not paint a different picture of Jesus PBOH for each church we follow his core message. Peace be upon him, God is ONE. Jesus will come again as prophesied so how can he then say his blood will save us. I believe he will refute Paul's message with his message again.
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
Please do me a favour and READ. The entire chapter. This is Jesus telling a parable (an object lesson) and those words are not a commandment from Jesus but Jesus quoting what someone else said. Nice try. Keep going - that's the best part about Christianity with more questioning comes enlightenment. That is the failing of Islam is that it can only exist in ignorance.
nilloc99 4 years ago
You misquote the Qur'an and won't read the full context. Why are the rules are different for you? I see much truth in the bible as I was a Christian but Jesus was not a Christian he told us to worship God not him. Where in the Qur'an do you see all this violence? Let me shed some light on it as well. Jesus PBOH told us there would be another prophet to follow before he came... will you deny any prophet to come now. Is defending one who is being oppressed not a Christian ideal?
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
Hmmmm you have not been reading your bible lately. Check out this verse.
Luke 19:27
King James Bible
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
one brother came to islam last week because of media and finding out the real truth of islam
Ad42000 4 years ago
That's the TRUTH! And we have to endure this everyday.
skalor2 4 years ago
Sigh. You Muslims have got to be the thickest human beings to ever have breathed. Do you not get it that the man killed his daughter IN THE NAME OF HIS RELIGION? What's so hard to understand? Other criminals aren't identified by faith, because they commit no crimes in the name of their faith, they do it for other reasons. With the masses of crimes committed in the name of Allah, maybe it's time for YOU to examine your double standards.
JohnTrinny 4 years ago
JohnTrinny, you bring up an interesting question but I have to ask just who is saying he killed his daughter in the name of his religion? How do we know what the reasons were that this unfortunate incident happened? We you there? This man has an older daughter that does not wear the hijab yet she remains alive? You lynch us as the black man was lynched years ago; before the evidence has been shown. You are judge, jury and executioner and whatever we say you will find fault in it.
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
1. Your statement reeks of personal bias as you say Us Muslims have to be the thickest human beings. You yourself in this statement exemplify the situation that we everyday. You generalize all of us together. I have never hurt another human physically yet I bear the burden of every misplaced act that even .01% of my Muslim brothers may have done however you as a US or Canadian (I am Canadian), when a Canadian kills do not bear this burden.
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
I am a Christian but before all I am a human being capable of objectively thinking for myself. Therefore I cannot resist replying to JohnTrinny that we, Christians, DID KILLED IN THE NAME OF OUR RELIGION many times during our history. It doesn't matter whether we were Orthodoxes, Catholics or whatever. We did killed. But this has nothing to do with a certain person's faith, not even its religion. Killing is something PEOPLE do, not religions.
icflorescu 4 years ago
The first chronological judge for murder is not the priest or your religion, but ones conscience and the second one is God, or Allah, no matter how you call him. We all believe in the same thing, only we're too blinded by appearance to see the essential.
icflorescu 4 years ago
Well, you are right about the media but that reflect the fear that a lot of people have towards Islam, me included. We are afraid of Islam wanting to change our secular state and impose Sharia. We are afraid of the way some muslim man comming from more conservative country think about women. Is Islam really compatible with a modern secular state? I ask you and hope we can find bridges. Peace be upon us.
fredroypoulin 4 years ago
1. I can not walk down the street after 10PM in my Canadian City for fear of a mugging, neither can my non Muslim friends and relatives and this is not from Sharia. I can't go into some spots without being propositioned for drugs and this is not because of Sharia. Before fearing Sharia lets wake up; in the US 2 million people are in jails, a rape occurs every few seconds, there are murder upon murder. Is this indicative upon how our society views women.
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago
2. I am a Canadian who happens to be Muslim and white and I am fearful for my girls and it certainly isn't because of Sharia law it is because of the situation that exists today from my fellow Canadians and how I see due to the stats that we as a society deal with women and our weak.
prophetsnotprofits 4 years ago