I find myself liking Shabir, actually as a Christian getting ready to debate a Muslim at my school next month. He is a wonderful person, dangerously intelligent, and very respectable. But he falls victim to many ad hoc arguments and many of his foundations are simply based on faulty-logic or dogma.
If Jesus said "I'm God, worship me", of course that people around would kill him in the exact time he claimed that and then His mission on earth would be frustrated. So Jesus Christ used an anology (Father and Son) to avoid that and to fullfill the prophecisin the time that was determinated.
Jesus Christ reveals this mistery about his devine nature indirectly by analogies. Even his desciples had hard time to comprehend that. He proved by his mireacles wich no prophet could have ever done.
@humbleman9 well when they were crucifying him then he could have done so right? , Also, God was protecting himself from Getting killed? Plus John 20:17 - "I ascend to My Father and to your Father, My God and to your God." How can the Father be His God if Christ is God? How can God have a God.
God can lie? God is trying to save himself from lieing that he is not father. This verse speaks for itself. Regards and Bye.
@flexpape Jesus wasn't going to try to stop them from crucifying him, because that is what had to happen, for prophecy in the scripture to be fulfilled and for the atonement of sin. Your second question about "my Father and your Father", its like asking how Jesus can be called the Son of God, be God himself, you aren't taking into account the two natures of Christ, that is, Christ is God(the Word) but also the man Jesus(the Son of God). There is no contradiction if you understand it.
there are a lot of skips specifically when craig is talking. I'm a christian but i do like shabbir ally. he's very intelligent and respectful when debating with christians. Hard to find in this subject.
I don't follow any religion buy I must agree with the Muslim. There are 5 books stating 5 different lives of Jesus. Did he rise or did god miraculously took his body? Toooo confusing, I gave up religion a long time ago! Geeeeesh!!!
@Nazam44 Sorry it is @ 8:54-8:55: It sounds like, " With in 5 years of the cor....this for lined formula..." Thanks for looking at it :) These debates are really important and I am glad that ppl share them
@DannyTheSeeker The Holy Quran does not teach that someone (Thomas) was crucified in Jesus' (PBUH) stead. This is a later theological propostition put forth by Islamic scholars hoping to ascertain and explain the mean of the verse. When I first read it, it never dawned on me that someone was crucified in Jesus' (PBUH) stead. It told me that Jesus was nailed to the cross, but not crucified. The word crucified means to DIE by cruxcifiction. Look it up! Muslims believe that Jesus suffered,
@Legend1One Seems like you are trying to avoid the crucifixion of Jesus, or that you are trying to allow the Quran does say Jesus was crucified, just that he didn't die. I think that is a horrible way of interpreting this verse: "They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but the likeness of..." In no way does this actually say Muhammad thought Jesus was crucified, but rather that its clear he thought only a "likeness" was shown to them.
@DannyTheSeeker but did not die on the cross, but it was made to appear that he had... so he passed out, or something like this, and the people though he was dead.
the thing is the facts bear out. There is more evidence to support the christian side of this argument than the muslim side. the christian side has a clear and concise account which unequivocally states that jesus was crucified. this is backed by even the most radical anti-christian sources concede to. the muslim side is unclear as to whether god replaced jesus with someone else or not, and is not backed by evidence. so you have certainty back by evidence and uncertain not backed at all
@jamaicanification but if you are putting jesus and killing and raising again then prophysies of bible are in big trouble,,eaither full fill the prophysies or put(or kill) jesus on cross..peace be upon jesus
@jamaicanification there were many christian groups with their own gospels who had many theories as to what happened to jesus,only thing is the trinitarians wiped them out so now u only have one version of events
Mr.Ally didn't contradict the Koran.You probably didn't listen to what he said properly or your understanding of what he said is in-adequate. Please, look up any English Dictionary worth it's name be it Collins,.....& check the meaning of crucify or crucifixion.If that is what it means then,Ally's interpretation of The Koran is 100% right.In reality what happened to Jesus(pbuh )was cruci-FICTION & not cruci-FIXION,(i.e.)putting a person on the cross & bringing him down alive without killing him
These two are warriors !!! Very commendable, one cannot deny their talents, dedication, and scholarship, they are an inspiration. And I am an atheist Lol
The first debate was excellent, both did very well overall. I do think that Mr Ally may have contradicted the Koran, which probably hurt his argument.
@amanwithdreams " My Father, who gave them me is Greater than ALL...," in John 10:29 completely negates this claim, otherwise we are left with a contradiction just a sentence apart. All includes everyone even Jesus. Also let us look at verse John 17:20‐22 "That the ALL may be made ONE. Like thou Father art in me, I in thee, that they may be ONE in us. I in them, they in me, that they may be perfect in ONE".
@TrinityDesist These verses prove how you can manipulate truth. How many times do I have to explain this too you. Jesus was on earth (as a man) do you get that?, he was a man on earth with (a divine nature), attributed all his power to his father in heaven. Becasue no man can have a divine nature without God. This is why we say Jesus and God and the Holy spirit are ONE GOD.
@amanwithdreams I am exposing your liar brother. You gave list of verses that makes Jesus a god but i am responding every claim you made with your bible. I am not using any other source.
Also did i ever say Mary wan NOT virgin? But she seeded by God when she was 11. Then got married with with 90 years old Joseph when She was age of 12. That what all the scholars and bibles encyclopedia say.
You are using your bible to show Jesus is god. So i am using same bibles against you to prove my point.
@TrinityDesist You haven't shown me anything. I already asked you before to show me where it says Joseph was 90yrs old when Mary was only 11? I am still waiting.
@amanwithdreams Because you have NO OTHER source to show us that Jesus is god except the New Testament. I started with John 10:30 and proved to you you are taking the verse out of context. do you want to debate more on about that verse?
Or if you are NOT a COWARD like most Christians are why don't you LIVE DEBATE with me on Pal-talk?
@amanwithdreams "...Neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father who gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are One."
These verses prove only that Jesus and the Father are one in that no man can pluck the sheep out of either's hand. It does not at all state that Jesus is God's equal in everything. In fact the words of Jesus,
@amanwithdreams Your claim Jesus says, " I and the Father are One (John 10:30)." so that's make Him a god.
Well why are you taking the verse out of context? because beginning at verse John 10:23 we read (in the context of 10:30) about Jesus talking to the Jews. In verse John 10:28‐30, talking about his followers as his sheep, he states:
@TrinityDesist Explain what "I and the father are ONE" means too you. It can't mean we are two seperate identities can it? Jesus said "ONE" So Please explain?
@amanwithdreams I always saying same thing that Christianity is NOT a religion but it is only relationship with a man god. If you are believing that it is religion why don't you following the laws in it? Paul says women has to obey her husband like a slave. She can NOT talk in church and has to cover her hair, if not the verse says shave her hair like a bald. But Islam gives more respect the women. I challenge you to prove me wrong. I also will prove you that Jesus is only a prophet of Allah.
@TrinityDesist You speak again with no understanding of Biblical knowledge, just making things up. It's impossible to coverse with you. Again you are ripping one line sentences out of context. This seems to be a habbit from you. You see as I have explained, the Gospels are to be all taken into account for understanding of the Bible, it's not like the Koran.
@TrinityDesist Yes please prove this to me that women in Islam are treated with equal rights and respect. What a joke. Lets start with genital mutilation, which only happens in Islamic countries. A cultural tradition which is still happening in 2010, to Muslim women. Muslim women being killed (houour killings) still happening today in 2010.
@TrinityDesist You said "They removed this in you bibles" Well it doesn't count then. Why quote me something which is incorrect or doesn't exist. I will tell you why you do it. Because of your desperate nature to prove Christianity is wrong, unfortuantely as you can see you fail everytime. Everytime you follow your false teaching leaders from answering-chrisitianity, you fail. The truth my frined is that you have been decieved and Jesus Christ is the only way to hevean.
@amanwithdreams U Wrote: "Well it doesn't count then. Why quote me something which is incorrect or doesn't exist. "
Who said that incorrect? I quoted you from Catholic Encyclopedia and you can find this in Oxford Dictionary Bible. I can use same logic and say this hadith is NOT in Qur'an, how is that? There is more than 200.000 manuscripts of bibles and NOT even 2 of them identical. Who is picking them and making a book? God or scholars? I proved, your man god raped Mary when she was 11.
@TrinityDesist Let me expose your lack of knowledge. Yes it is true no other religion has that much information available. If you research the "Dead Sea Scrolls" you will find that todays bible has an incredibly high accuracy rate. NOT the lies you have been told and believe to be true.
Mary was born a virgin, so you are just speaking garbage here again.
@TrinityDesist Again your lack of Biblical law and knowledge has shown itself. You have quoted from the OT. Do you not know we follow the new covenant brought from Jesus. Do you not know that? Or you do know but just to prove a point still use deceitful tactics. We follow the 10 commandments and the NT. So all your points are invalid and false again.
@amanwithdreams You wrote: "Do you not know we follow the new covenant brought from Jesus."
Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-19: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
@TrinityDesist Yes and ????? I agree 100%. What's your point. Here Jesus says I have not come to abolish them BUT TO FULFILL THEM. Do you understand this?
His NEW COVENANT fullfilled the Laws, such as ONLY having one wife. Such as being able to eat pork, etc
@amanwithdreams 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
@TrinityDesist "Fulfill the law means not break the law" are you serious. So you are saying Jesus who is sinless came to tell us he wouldn't break the law. You are so desperate. The word "fulfill" does not and cannot mean "not to" which is what you falsely claim.
@amanwithdreams Is it to hard to understand for you. Why are you NOT reading what Jesus says in the verse:
18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
@amanwithdreams 19 Anyone who BREAKS one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
You said: "The word fulfil has nothing to do with breaking the law." But you are fighting AGAINST your man god that who said in the verse: "..Anyone who BREAKS one of the least of these commandments.."
@TrinityDesist Do you want to pick a verse and stick with it. Now you have changed verse. This is the verse so stay on topic. Matthew 5:17-19: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I gave you the definition of fulfil below. Yes "fulfil" has nothing to do with 'break" This verse is speaking of Jesus completeting the laws, being the final authority. It's obviousl we are not to break them.
@TrinityDesist Lets look at the meaning of fulfil from the dictionary as your English is poor. Here are the meanings; 1. To bring into actuality; effect: fulfilled their promises.
2. To carry out (an order, for example).
3. To measure up to; satisfy. See Synonyms at perform, satisfy.
4. To bring to an end; complete.
Note the definitions. The word fulfil has nothing to do with breaking the law. Do you now understand what this passage means? Are you man enough to admitt you made a mistake?
@amanwithdreams ...Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
As you can see OT Law also FOLLOWED by Jesus(pbuh). Anyway i was NOT speaking about Law in OT. Also did i ever quote you law in OT? So why are you twisting my words that i never said?
@TrinityDesist Did you ever quote me OT? Yes you did, look at your previous posts, here is one example In Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry. You quoted me that. Is it not true or am I a liar???
@amanwithdreams I invite you to LIVE join LIVE DEBATE between a Christian and former Christian today (Saturday). I am not sure about the time but it should be around 5-10PM (est.). You can go to paltalk .com (answering Christianity room) or you can only listen LIVE at theansweringchristianity. com
@amanwithdreams From here Rabbi Shimon b. Yohai used to say: a Proselyte girl who became a proselyte in the age of less than three years and one day, is rendered fit to marry into the priesthood." ....According to the Tannaïte Rabbis, MOSES therefore had ordered the Israelites to kill all women older than three years and a day, because they were "suitable for having sexual relations."
Child brides as young as 8 (eight) were common among the Byzantine emperors and nobility!
@TrinityDesist The problem my friend is that your English is not very good. All the Holy books were man made, even the Koran was written by men, not God. Actually the best scribe apostatized after suggesting to Mohammad what to write, which he did. Mohammad later killed him for this. Great example of a Holy man.
@amanwithdreams The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Vol. 4, page 2637, Under "Baptism," says:
"Matthew 28:19 in particular only canonizes a later ecclesiastical situation, that its universalism is contrary to the facts of early Christian history, and its Trinitarian formula (is) foreign to the mouth of Jesus."
@amanwithdreams Hastings Dictionary of the Bible 1963, page 1015:
"The Trinity.-...is not demonstrable by logic or by Scriptural proofs,...The term Trias was first used by Theophilus of Antioch (c AD 180),...(The term Trinity) not found in Scripture..." "The chief Trinitarian text in the NT is the baptismal formula in Mt 28:19...This late post-resurrection saying, not found in any other Gospel or anywhere else in the NT, has been viewed by some scholars as an interpolation into Matthew.
@TrinityDesist Your arguements are all WEAK, there are lots of terms which are not found in scripture, it doens't mean it's not true. I have already explained this to you. Athiesm, Divinity, rapture are also not in the bible. The trinity is demonstrable. For example water, can be a liquid, ice or steam. 3 parts of one (the same substance). Very easy to demonstrate. Why don't you try and just use one Bible version, instead of trying to get your answers from whichever suits your false cause.
@amanwithdreams Wilhelm Bousset, Kyrios Christianity, page 295:
"The testimony for the wide distribution of the simple baptismal formula [in the Name of Jesus] down into the second century is so overwhelming that even in Matthew 28:19, the Trinitarian formula was later inserted."
The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263:
"The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century."
@amanwithdreams I listen many answer like this. You and me NOT an expert on bibles. I am trying to use scholarly sources to prove me point. But you didn't give us ANY evidence to prove Matthew 28:19 was WORD OF JESUS.
In Matthew, the command is to "make disciples in my name." To "make a disciple" of necessity includes baptism in the conversion process (Mark 16:15-16, John 3:3-5), and the entire process is under the umbrella of the specification to do so "in His name."
@amanwithdreams “How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us’? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (Jeremiah 8:8)”
Let's back to subject. In the case just examined (Matt. 28:19), it is to be noticed that not a single manuscript or ancient version has preserved to us the true reading. But that is not surprising, for as Dr. C.R. Gregory, one of the greatest of our textual critics, reminds us: ...
@TrinityDesist Again more proof you don't know the bible in context. Ripping one liners out of context again is not being truthful and honest, if you wish to learn you cannot continue to be dishonest with me or to God. Jerimiah 8:8 , I will post you my answer as 500 hundred characters is not enough to explain properly.
because Gentile Dogs cannot become the Children of God the Jews !!! Neither can they EVEN eat fallen crumbs of salvation like dogs from the children table with exception of JUST ONE lady Samaritan !!!
@TrinityDesist Everyone is worthy of God's grace, you are confused with this verse even though I had explained it to you. Do you understand what the term Allegorical means?
@amanwithdreams So his disciples came to him and urged him, ‘Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.’ He [Jesus] answered, ‘I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.’ The woman came and knelt before him. ‘Lord, help me!’ she said. He [Jesus] replied ‘It is not right to take the children’s [Jews] bread [blessings and miracles reserved for them] and toss it to their dogs [the Gentiles].’
@amanwithdreams U wrote: "Firstly you lie. Where does Jesus specifically say "he forbids" he doesn't. This Mathew 7:6 Jesus is speaking allegorically."
Well, the bibles clearly states:
Matthew 15:22-28 “A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, ‘Master, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession. Jesus did not answer a word.
@TrinityDesist Firstly you lie. Where does Jesus specifically say "he forbids" he doesn't. This Mathew 7:6 Jesus is speaking allegorically. Basically it means do not persist or waste your time in offering what is sacred or of value to those who have no appreciation for it, because your gift/preaching/teaching will not only become contaminated and be despised and unappreciated, your generous efforts could also be rebuffed and perhaps even openly attacked.
@amanwithdreams Yes, i read bibles maybe more than you brother. I asked you simple questions. But you answered to me with your misinterpretations. Are you believing bibles are %100 Word of God? If yes which version you prefer? Let start with Matthew 28:19. Every scholars say this verse can not be found in most ancient manuscripts.And they say constantine (founder of Christianity) added this verse into your bibles.
@TrinityDesist Obviously your here just to waste time. I couldn't care less if one little verse is debatable. YOU are missing the whole point. None of it changes the fact of who Jesus is and how he lived and also the core teachings of Christianity. As for claiming i am mis-interpreting, I don't think so, that 's just your way of saying you don't like my answers because they are right.
@TrinityDesist You must be joking right? Or you have never read the BIble? Which one is it? This kind of objection usually demonstrates a prejudice against the teaching of the Trinity. Lets look to God's word to see if it is taught or not.
to say that if God wanted us to believe in the Trinity he would have clearly taught it in scripture, is also an invalid argument. Something does not have to be clearly formulated in the Bible to be valid. Not all things taught in the Bible are....
@TrinityDesist Your a great example for Islam. Lying just like your God who the Koran claims is recognized as the greatest deceiver. Look up the Dead sea scrolls, before you make such erroneous comments.
1.Jesus being humble never said the exact words "I am GOD" but he also NEVER said the words " I am a PROPHET" or " I am a MAN" so does that mean he was never a prophet? I don't think so, invalid arguement.
@TrinityDesist 2. Again, if you knew Jesus you would know he never asked for anything, he taught and led by example. There are many examples like, .Matt. 14:33 - "And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God’s Son!" and Matt 4:10, 2:2 2:11, 28:9, John 9:35-38, Heb 1:6
@TrinityDesist 3. Jesus answered, "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. ... Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves." (John 14:10-11).
@TrinityDesist 4. Jesus never mentioned the words "original sin" as they are modern words used to explain a concept.
5.. Again Jesus never had to say these things you continually quote. The immediate reaction of any decent monotheistic believer would be to call the person making such a claim an impostor and a blasphemer. Would you believe someone if they came to you claiming to be God or Son of God? NO you wouldn't and Jesus knew this was not the right approach.......
@TrinityDesist 5. cont......God in the flesh .John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 1:14 - "And the Word became flesh, (son of GOD/JESUS) and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
@TrinityDesist CONT....John 5:18 - "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God." 6. answered in question 5.
7.. There is only one GOD, not 3 GODs as you again falsly claim. Your lack of biblical understanding is clearly showing.
@jilwax360 Because when Jesus entered in to creation and the material world he took on our limitations. It reflects this after Jesus was raised from the dead he was able to do more miraculous things than when he was in Human flesh and purely in the material world.
@jilwax360 Any manifestation on a purely natural plane of an ultimate being would have to be limited and thus be only a part of that being. The comments made by Jesus could easily be interpreted as Jesus telling people that he was a part of God and therefore still God but not all of God.
I think this video has been cut from it's original,,,you can tell that some statements from lane Craig are cut off the video,,,,fairness is one thing that God also commands...
"In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him."
John 14:8-10
"Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."... Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me?"
@KixDanis You are claiming that Jesus is the God and we all agree God can not die. So why are you still saying God died for our sins?
1 John 4:9" In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only BEGOTTEN Son into the world" KJV. What do you mean only "son"? Are not the son the father and the holy ghost same person? How can there be an eternal Son when the Bible speaks of the begotten Son, clearly indicating that the Son had a beginning?
@TrinityDesist Oh and btw, as for 19:27, that has nothing to do with hatred. That's just being taken out of context. However, if I'm correct, the beliefs of Islam continually mock women, discredit women, claim that God hates certain types of people, and gives a false account of the life and ministry of Jesus Christ. There seems to be a problem here, friend. Open your heart and your mind! God bless!
"if I'm correct, the beliefs of Islam continually mock women, discredit women, claim that God hates certain types of people" -Did you hear from somebody or you made your own search on Quran and Hadith?
"claim that God hates certain types of people" -What types of people? Can you give me any verse from Quran says: Allah "hates"...?
"gives a false account of the life and ministry of Jesus Christ." -No, Quran confirms that Jesus was Messiah (in Greek Christ).
@MrZazomy Ok, you have a valid point that i didn't refute his "facts" but the biggest problem with this is that these "facts" are just stories written long after he supposedly lived. There's no proof that these stories are true. The story of Jesus is an allegorical myth based on other previous myths of antiquity. Shabir logically refutes parts of it but still clings to his mythology as stated his "historic" holy book that jesus wasn't killed.
Okay, now I know you didn't even watch the debate lol. These facts he presents are in agreed upon within the mainstream of NT scholarship, and I know the burial of Jesus, his empty tomb, and the post mortem appearances of Jesus after his death challenge your worldview but that is not a rational reason to deny them without investigation. Also, Shabir AGREES WITH THE FACTS, he just says he survived the crucifixion.
Shabir is such an embarrassing failure. Its no mystery that muslims don't understand the trinity, love, sacrifice or righteousness. How can anyone expect reason or an understanding of God when their belief centres around a liar, cheat, murderer, thief, adulterer & satanic child molester like muhammad. (try denying that muhammad did not act in an evil, perverted & corrupt way through the excrement of his life & you will fail).
IF God is just Unity that his essence was never Love in the past. God would have just himself, there would be no object of Love. The only "object of his love" would be his creation, which of course didn't have to be made since God wasn't compelled to make it for that reason.
If God is a Trinity then his essence is Love and he creating other beings to share in that Love makes perfect sense.
@JESUStheATHEIST1 If that isn't committing the Genetic Fallacy then I don't what is. Even if I grant you your belief that "faith is only out of fear of dying" (which I don't believe for a second) then all that would prove is that people believe in God for the wrong reasons. It does not follow that God does not exist, or that we only have one life. You can't falsify a belief by showing how it originated. You falsify a belief by providing better arguments.
"From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.
Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. "Never, Lord!" he said. "This shall never happen to you!
"Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men." (Matthew 16:21-23)
- If you deny that Jesus died on the cross and then rose from the dead, you've listened to Satan's voice.
Another example of a false belief system is the book of Mormon. To date, not even 1 archaeological item has been found to support the story. Even worse, DNA studies of humans verify the book of Mormon is a false story. The only logical conclusion is that the book of Mormon is false.
Absolutely no archaeological data to support the viewpoint of a so-called holy book reveals that such books are false. The Qur'an and the book of Mormon fit this "no data" requirement.
Because archaeological data validates the book of Acts, the Christian viewpoint is a viable faith.
In contrast, the quran remains void of archaeological support for its viewpoint of Jesus. Therefore, the quran is NOT a viable faith. The only possible faith that would accept the quran is BLIND FAITH.
The archaeological data correlating to the book of Acts at the 99.9% confidence level is not circular reasoning. This external evidence is what verifies the quran to be false.
Circular Reasoning: "when a proposition which requires proof is assumed without proof"
The Qur'an makes completely differrent claims about Jesus than found in the Bible. Is there any archaeological data to support the Quranic view of Jesus?
To date, not even 1 item. Therefore, blind faith in the quran and cirular reasoning dominate muslim views of Jesus.
I cite scholarly works with a large amount of data that validates the book of Acts at the 99.9% confidence level.
how on earth can the muslims think they have better interpretations of the christian's bible when they (the muslims) only partially accept / believe the words which are written in the christian's bible?
More circular reasoning from a BLIND FAITH in the quran viewpoint.
Different versions of the Qur'an were burned by Uthman ~ 653 AD to create the Uthmanic revision of the Qur'an. Anyone who studies Islam knows this. It was a political decision because the quran contradicted itself.
Masud, a compansion of Muhammad refused to burn his version. And if Masud were alive today, he would refuse to read the Uthmaniac revision. He would tell you to your face that the quran is CORRUPT.
To begin, your equation is based on circular reasoning and is irrelevant.
Were different versions of the quran burned with fire during the time of Uthman (~653 CE)?
The original quran was completed within 2 years of Muhammad's death. It is referred to as the Hafsah Codex. The text would have been fresh and accurate. However, it is questioned because other close companions of Muhammad made their personal version of the quran.
Due to contradictions in various versions of the quran, divisions began to occur within Muslim military ranks. Islamic Hadith validate this problem.
Hudhaifa (the Muslim military general) was afraid of the different recitations of the Qur'an, so he asked 'Uthman (3rd Caliph - leader of Islam), O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Quran as Jews and the
Christians did before. (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 61, Number 150).
You proving the point: Companions learnt Qur'an by heart, 1st Khaliph, Abu Bakr has decided to collect the different chapters and verses into one volume, In about 650, as Islam expanded beyond the Arabian peninsula into Persia, the Levant and North Africa, the 3rd Khaliph Uthman ibn Affan ordered the preparation of an official, standardized version, to preserve the sanctity of the text. Book was collected and gathered into one by companions themselves who never differed in it
Viewpoints held by Muslims more than 600 years after Jesus are not credible. Do I believe the eyewitnesses or someone who is trying to constantly revise history (i.e. muslims).
The true disconnect between the Bible and the quran is that archaeological data validates the Biblical texts. The claims of the quran do not have even 1 item to date. Therefore BLIND FAITH in the quran is required. BLIND FAITH is the foundation of spiritual deception. Show me data to support the quranic view of Jesus!
Q: 'Do I believe the eyewitnesses or someone who is trying to constantly revise history'
A: If you don't believe prophesies of God's Prophets, that can come anytime after billion years but testify the Truth of the present then you truly disregard God's Light. Well, if you want to believe in only Book that you have. Then read it thoroughly, there is a Wisdom for the ones who want to know the Truth. And you'll be Judged by the Book you're given. Peace and God's mercy be to you!
The only true prophets are found in the Bible. Muhammad is the greatest of all false prophets (deceivers). You have been given understanding that the quran has been REVISED and burned for political purposes. So why do you defend such a book when there is nothing to support its validity?
Muhammad claimed to receive revelation from Archangel Gabriel. So did Daniel in the Old Testament. Comparing the quran to Daniel gives keen insight into the issue of spiritual possession vs revelation.
The problem with your statement of Muhammad being foretold in the Bible is that ONLY muslims believe that. Why?
Because quran is not credible and needs more support. So you use circular reasoning and attempt to find support. No Biblical scholars teach what you claim because it is made up by Muslims misinterpreting the words to fit their belief system.
How do I know the quran is false?
Read my responses to your other comments.
Jesus is PEACE! Invite him and you will have eternal life.
Q: No Biblical scholars teach what you claim because it is made up by Muslims misinterpreting the words to fit their belief system.
A: Do you speak Hebrew? Of course, no one will want to teach whatever they don't want to teach. But His very name is there, you can't do nothing about it. You will be in my position if you try to prove to a Jew that Jesus was mentioned in OT. Why not to look for support in previous books, wouldn't you do that? Of course you would!
I looked for Muhammad, Mohammad, or for such derivatives in Strong's concordance for the entire Bible. Strong's is based on the original languages, which are Hebrew and Aramaic for the Old Testament .
Guess what? The name is non-existent.
You've been reading the lies of muslim commentaries who have to attempt to buttress the quran.
The word was translated as attribute, not taken as a Name (which in fact fits to be name, noun with suffux ''-im'' meaning plurality, respect), but no, it is very disastrous to take it as a Name, so they preferred an attribute, and kept it that way, now, whoever translates it as a noun (honoured name) they will be accused of trying to buttress the qur'an. I think you're afraid of facing the truth more than losing one! Keep the dialogue live, peacful and neutral, please!
I think you're afraid of facing the truth more than losing one! Keep the dialogue alive, peacful and neutral, please!
Some Christians claimed that Chapter 5 is talking about Jesus (PBUH). How can one claim that Muslims are trying to butress Qur'an, when Christians try to fit Jesus into that personage, only because Chapter has the word 'beloved'!? What about ''...his locks are curled, and black as a raven..''?
I am completely assured of my faith in Christ for several reasons.
1) Born again experience as a child.
2) Archaeological data validates the Bible.
3) Scientific data supports that the universe did not begin by chance. people who believe this do so on blind faith. Due to science's inability to explain the universe, we ask, "Shall we expect to observe supernatural events in this universe?"
Jesus death and resurrection are supported based on archaeolgical evidence correlating to texts.
Shabir kicks William Craig's butt so terribly bad, I am proud of brother Shabir Ally.
MultiManriquez 3 weeks ago
When was this exactly? why didn't she mention Shabir's masters?
sunnimanhaj 1 month ago
something was happened, at mark 14:50 man,
sususoos 2 months ago
Dr Craig always does well, but he is far, at defending theism to an atheist
lxAgnosticxl 2 months ago
I find myself liking Shabir, actually as a Christian getting ready to debate a Muslim at my school next month. He is a wonderful person, dangerously intelligent, and very respectable. But he falls victim to many ad hoc arguments and many of his foundations are simply based on faulty-logic or dogma.
StephenMcCleskey 2 months ago
@StephenMcCleskey Hi, will this debate be available on-line to view?
Nazam44 2 months ago
Dr. Craig is a GREAT debater. BUT Shabbir Alley kicks booty
muslimgiga 2 months ago
If Jesus said "I'm God, worship me", of course that people around would kill him in the exact time he claimed that and then His mission on earth would be frustrated. So Jesus Christ used an anology (Father and Son) to avoid that and to fullfill the prophecisin the time that was determinated.
Jesus Christ reveals this mistery about his devine nature indirectly by analogies. Even his desciples had hard time to comprehend that. He proved by his mireacles wich no prophet could have ever done.
humbleman9 4 months ago
@humbleman9 well when they were crucifying him then he could have done so right? , Also, God was protecting himself from Getting killed? Plus John 20:17 - "I ascend to My Father and to your Father, My God and to your God." How can the Father be His God if Christ is God? How can God have a God.
God can lie? God is trying to save himself from lieing that he is not father. This verse speaks for itself. Regards and Bye.
flexpape 4 weeks ago
@flexpape Jesus wasn't going to try to stop them from crucifying him, because that is what had to happen, for prophecy in the scripture to be fulfilled and for the atonement of sin. Your second question about "my Father and your Father", its like asking how Jesus can be called the Son of God, be God himself, you aren't taking into account the two natures of Christ, that is, Christ is God(the Word) but also the man Jesus(the Son of God). There is no contradiction if you understand it.
mirrormoveuchiha 3 weeks ago
very good debate. I tip my hat to both of these fantastic scholars.
cwbynation 4 months ago
there are a lot of skips specifically when craig is talking. I'm a christian but i do like shabbir ally. he's very intelligent and respectful when debating with christians. Hard to find in this subject.
cwbynation 4 months ago
I don't follow any religion buy I must agree with the Muslim. There are 5 books stating 5 different lives of Jesus. Did he rise or did god miraculously took his body? Toooo confusing, I gave up religion a long time ago! Geeeeesh!!!
lovergal1984 6 months ago
@lovergal1984 there are 4 different accounts of Jesus and they talk about the same life of Jesus of Nazareth.
gunner23 5 months ago 4
@lovergal1984 Well, I gotta tell you Islam is fairly simple. 1 God, 1 Message= Live a life to Please God.
Pretty simple if you ask me.
muslimgiga 2 months ago
@muslimgiga It's about truth not simplicity
reversao1 3 days ago
To summarise, Shabbir is right
kotlianz 7 months ago
for short, Shabir is wrong
Kep0v 7 months ago
Why did it skip at 9:02. Could have missed some important information there.
jgoltz37 9 months ago
@jgoltz37 I check and it's working as normal.
Nazam44 9 months ago 2
@Nazam44 Sorry it is @ 8:54-8:55: It sounds like, " With in 5 years of the cor....this for lined formula..." Thanks for looking at it :) These debates are really important and I am glad that ppl share them
jgoltz37 9 months ago
hmmm ... God make thomas look like jesus? can He done that? than thomas crucified? so where Jesus go from then? rised by God to heaven?
DannyTheSeeker 9 months ago
@DannyTheSeeker The Holy Quran does not teach that someone (Thomas) was crucified in Jesus' (PBUH) stead. This is a later theological propostition put forth by Islamic scholars hoping to ascertain and explain the mean of the verse. When I first read it, it never dawned on me that someone was crucified in Jesus' (PBUH) stead. It told me that Jesus was nailed to the cross, but not crucified. The word crucified means to DIE by cruxcifiction. Look it up! Muslims believe that Jesus suffered,
Legend1One 9 months ago
@Legend1One Seems like you are trying to avoid the crucifixion of Jesus, or that you are trying to allow the Quran does say Jesus was crucified, just that he didn't die. I think that is a horrible way of interpreting this verse: "They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but the likeness of..." In no way does this actually say Muhammad thought Jesus was crucified, but rather that its clear he thought only a "likeness" was shown to them.
mirrormoveuchiha 1 month ago
@DannyTheSeeker but did not die on the cross, but it was made to appear that he had... so he passed out, or something like this, and the people though he was dead.
Legend1One 9 months ago
@Legend1One so god tricked earliest followers of jesus? they thought Jesus was dead on cross
agnostaxian 8 months ago
I can honestly say that I agree w both WLC and Ally when it comes to their critiques.
BTW I enjoy your channel very much.
-an atheist
skepticnyc 10 months ago
LOL two doctorate?? this is proof that education can never make you smart, it makes you indoctrinated.
this guy Ally wiped the floor with Craig.
glower125 10 months ago
SubèanLah ally is such highly intelligent
cyrax752 10 months ago
o_O Did she say mister Ali is married with 4 children @ 0:40
cyrax752 10 months ago
the thing is the facts bear out. There is more evidence to support the christian side of this argument than the muslim side. the christian side has a clear and concise account which unequivocally states that jesus was crucified. this is backed by even the most radical anti-christian sources concede to. the muslim side is unclear as to whether god replaced jesus with someone else or not, and is not backed by evidence. so you have certainty back by evidence and uncertain not backed at all
jamaicanification 1 year ago
@jamaicanification but if you are putting jesus and killing and raising again then prophysies of bible are in big trouble,,eaither full fill the prophysies or put(or kill) jesus on cross..peace be upon jesus
amirzubairmughal 1 year ago
@jamaicanification there were many christian groups with their own gospels who had many theories as to what happened to jesus,only thing is the trinitarians wiped them out so now u only have one version of events
exposemyfoes 1 year ago
@exposemyfoes what gospels were earliest? dates?
agnostaxian 8 months ago
Mr.Ally didn't contradict the Koran.You probably didn't listen to what he said properly or your understanding of what he said is in-adequate. Please, look up any English Dictionary worth it's name be it Collins,.....& check the meaning of crucify or crucifixion.If that is what it means then,Ally's interpretation of The Koran is 100% right.In reality what happened to Jesus(pbuh )was cruci-FICTION & not cruci-FIXION,(i.e.)putting a person on the cross & bringing him down alive without killing him
mukrimhabeeb 1 year ago
These two are warriors !!! Very commendable, one cannot deny their talents, dedication, and scholarship, they are an inspiration. And I am an atheist Lol
Abu7929 1 year ago 2
The first debate was excellent, both did very well overall. I do think that Mr Ally may have contradicted the Koran, which probably hurt his argument.
Abu7929 1 year ago
Regarding his final rebuttal, Dr Craig, if nothing else, proves his talent in backing out of a corner ! Lol
Abu7929 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams " My Father, who gave them me is Greater than ALL...," in John 10:29 completely negates this claim, otherwise we are left with a contradiction just a sentence apart. All includes everyone even Jesus. Also let us look at verse John 17:20‐22 "That the ALL may be made ONE. Like thou Father art in me, I in thee, that they may be ONE in us. I in them, they in me, that they may be perfect in ONE".
more above
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist These verses prove how you can manipulate truth. How many times do I have to explain this too you. Jesus was on earth (as a man) do you get that?, he was a man on earth with (a divine nature), attributed all his power to his father in heaven. Becasue no man can have a divine nature without God. This is why we say Jesus and God and the Holy spirit are ONE GOD.
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams I am exposing your liar brother. You gave list of verses that makes Jesus a god but i am responding every claim you made with your bible. I am not using any other source.
Also did i ever say Mary wan NOT virgin? But she seeded by God when she was 11. Then got married with with 90 years old Joseph when She was age of 12. That what all the scholars and bibles encyclopedia say.
You are using your bible to show Jesus is god. So i am using same bibles against you to prove my point.
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist You haven't shown me anything. I already asked you before to show me where it says Joseph was 90yrs old when Mary was only 11? I am still waiting.
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams Because you have NO OTHER source to show us that Jesus is god except the New Testament. I started with John 10:30 and proved to you you are taking the verse out of context. do you want to debate more on about that verse?
Or if you are NOT a COWARD like most Christians are why don't you LIVE DEBATE with me on Pal-talk?
Peace!
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams "...Neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father who gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are One."
These verses prove only that Jesus and the Father are one in that no man can pluck the sheep out of either's hand. It does not at all state that Jesus is God's equal in everything. In fact the words of Jesus,
more above
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams Your claim Jesus says, " I and the Father are One (John 10:30)." so that's make Him a god.
Well why are you taking the verse out of context? because beginning at verse John 10:23 we read (in the context of 10:30) about Jesus talking to the Jews. In verse John 10:28‐30, talking about his followers as his sheep, he states:
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist Explain what "I and the father are ONE" means too you. It can't mean we are two seperate identities can it? Jesus said "ONE" So Please explain?
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams I always saying same thing that Christianity is NOT a religion but it is only relationship with a man god. If you are believing that it is religion why don't you following the laws in it? Paul says women has to obey her husband like a slave. She can NOT talk in church and has to cover her hair, if not the verse says shave her hair like a bald. But Islam gives more respect the women. I challenge you to prove me wrong. I also will prove you that Jesus is only a prophet of Allah.
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist You speak again with no understanding of Biblical knowledge, just making things up. It's impossible to coverse with you. Again you are ripping one line sentences out of context. This seems to be a habbit from you. You see as I have explained, the Gospels are to be all taken into account for understanding of the Bible, it's not like the Koran.
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist Yes please prove this to me that women in Islam are treated with equal rights and respect. What a joke. Lets start with genital mutilation, which only happens in Islamic countries. A cultural tradition which is still happening in 2010, to Muslim women. Muslim women being killed (houour killings) still happening today in 2010.
This doesn't happen to Christian women.
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
Comment removed
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist You said "They removed this in you bibles" Well it doesn't count then. Why quote me something which is incorrect or doesn't exist. I will tell you why you do it. Because of your desperate nature to prove Christianity is wrong, unfortuantely as you can see you fail everytime. Everytime you follow your false teaching leaders from answering-chrisitianity, you fail. The truth my frined is that you have been decieved and Jesus Christ is the only way to hevean.
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams U Wrote: "Well it doesn't count then. Why quote me something which is incorrect or doesn't exist. "
Who said that incorrect? I quoted you from Catholic Encyclopedia and you can find this in Oxford Dictionary Bible. I can use same logic and say this hadith is NOT in Qur'an, how is that? There is more than 200.000 manuscripts of bibles and NOT even 2 of them identical. Who is picking them and making a book? God or scholars? I proved, your man god raped Mary when she was 11.
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist Let me expose your lack of knowledge. Yes it is true no other religion has that much information available. If you research the "Dead Sea Scrolls" you will find that todays bible has an incredibly high accuracy rate. NOT the lies you have been told and believe to be true.
Mary was born a virgin, so you are just speaking garbage here again.
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams In Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry.
In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.
In 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.
In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon's son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.
Can you tell me please, how can your man god do NOT Muhammad (SAW) that who only married a girl because of her intelligence, wise?
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist Again your lack of Biblical law and knowledge has shown itself. You have quoted from the OT. Do you not know we follow the new covenant brought from Jesus. Do you not know that? Or you do know but just to prove a point still use deceitful tactics. We follow the 10 commandments and the NT. So all your points are invalid and false again.
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams You wrote: "Do you not know we follow the new covenant brought from Jesus."
Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-19: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
more above
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist Yes and ????? I agree 100%. What's your point. Here Jesus says I have not come to abolish them BUT TO FULFILL THEM. Do you understand this?
His NEW COVENANT fullfilled the Laws, such as ONLY having one wife. Such as being able to eat pork, etc
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams "Here Jesus says I have not come to abolish them BUT TO FULFILL THEM."
Why don't read further that i wrote that what Jesus said in same verse?
Let's read again: Matthew 5:17-19
17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
FULFILL THE LAW MEANS NOT BREAK THE LAW brother.
Peace
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist "Fulfill the law means not break the law" are you serious. So you are saying Jesus who is sinless came to tell us he wouldn't break the law. You are so desperate. The word "fulfill" does not and cannot mean "not to" which is what you falsely claim.
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams Is it to hard to understand for you. Why are you NOT reading what Jesus says in the verse:
18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
more above
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams 19 Anyone who BREAKS one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
You said: "The word fulfil has nothing to do with breaking the law." But you are fighting AGAINST your man god that who said in the verse: "..Anyone who BREAKS one of the least of these commandments.."
Which law and commandments plz tell me?
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist Do you want to pick a verse and stick with it. Now you have changed verse. This is the verse so stay on topic. Matthew 5:17-19: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I gave you the definition of fulfil below. Yes "fulfil" has nothing to do with 'break" This verse is speaking of Jesus completeting the laws, being the final authority. It's obviousl we are not to break them.
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist Lets look at the meaning of fulfil from the dictionary as your English is poor. Here are the meanings; 1. To bring into actuality; effect: fulfilled their promises.
2. To carry out (an order, for example).
3. To measure up to; satisfy. See Synonyms at perform, satisfy.
4. To bring to an end; complete.
Note the definitions. The word fulfil has nothing to do with breaking the law. Do you now understand what this passage means? Are you man enough to admitt you made a mistake?
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams ...Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
As you can see OT Law also FOLLOWED by Jesus(pbuh). Anyway i was NOT speaking about Law in OT. Also did i ever quote you law in OT? So why are you twisting my words that i never said?
more above
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist Did you ever quote me OT? Yes you did, look at your previous posts, here is one example In Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry. You quoted me that. Is it not true or am I a liar???
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams I invite you to LIVE join LIVE DEBATE between a Christian and former Christian today (Saturday). I am not sure about the time but it should be around 5-10PM (est.). You can go to paltalk .com (answering Christianity room) or you can only listen LIVE at theansweringchristianity. com
Peace!
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams From here Rabbi Shimon b. Yohai used to say: a Proselyte girl who became a proselyte in the age of less than three years and one day, is rendered fit to marry into the priesthood." ....According to the Tannaïte Rabbis, MOSES therefore had ordered the Israelites to kill all women older than three years and a day, because they were "suitable for having sexual relations."
Child brides as young as 8 (eight) were common among the Byzantine emperors and nobility!
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams "Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that has known a man by sleeping with him.(Num 31:17).
[This] refers to her who has slept with a man as well as her who is suitable for intercourse, even when she has not slept with a man...
But all the young girls who have not known a man by sleeping with him, keep alive for yourselves.
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist The problem my friend is that your English is not very good. All the Holy books were man made, even the Koran was written by men, not God. Actually the best scribe apostatized after suggesting to Mohammad what to write, which he did. Mohammad later killed him for this. Great example of a Holy man.
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Vol. 4, page 2637, Under "Baptism," says:
"Matthew 28:19 in particular only canonizes a later ecclesiastical situation, that its universalism is contrary to the facts of early Christian history, and its Trinitarian formula (is) foreign to the mouth of Jesus."
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams Hastings Dictionary of the Bible 1963, page 1015:
"The Trinity.-...is not demonstrable by logic or by Scriptural proofs,...The term Trias was first used by Theophilus of Antioch (c AD 180),...(The term Trinity) not found in Scripture..." "The chief Trinitarian text in the NT is the baptismal formula in Mt 28:19...This late post-resurrection saying, not found in any other Gospel or anywhere else in the NT, has been viewed by some scholars as an interpolation into Matthew.
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist Your arguements are all WEAK, there are lots of terms which are not found in scripture, it doens't mean it's not true. I have already explained this to you. Athiesm, Divinity, rapture are also not in the bible. The trinity is demonstrable. For example water, can be a liquid, ice or steam. 3 parts of one (the same substance). Very easy to demonstrate. Why don't you try and just use one Bible version, instead of trying to get your answers from whichever suits your false cause.
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams Why do use the name trinity desist. Is this to fool people, like what Mohammad would do, to be deceitful or the best deceiver?
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
Comment removed
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams Wilhelm Bousset, Kyrios Christianity, page 295:
"The testimony for the wide distribution of the simple baptismal formula [in the Name of Jesus] down into the second century is so overwhelming that even in Matthew 28:19, the Trinitarian formula was later inserted."
The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263:
"The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century."
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams I listen many answer like this. You and me NOT an expert on bibles. I am trying to use scholarly sources to prove me point. But you didn't give us ANY evidence to prove Matthew 28:19 was WORD OF JESUS.
In Matthew, the command is to "make disciples in my name." To "make a disciple" of necessity includes baptism in the conversion process (Mark 16:15-16, John 3:3-5), and the entire process is under the umbrella of the specification to do so "in His name."
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams “How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us’? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (Jeremiah 8:8)”
Let's back to subject. In the case just examined (Matt. 28:19), it is to be noticed that not a single manuscript or ancient version has preserved to us the true reading. But that is not surprising, for as Dr. C.R. Gregory, one of the greatest of our textual critics, reminds us: ...
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist Again more proof you don't know the bible in context. Ripping one liners out of context again is not being truthful and honest, if you wish to learn you cannot continue to be dishonest with me or to God. Jerimiah 8:8 , I will post you my answer as 500 hundred characters is not enough to explain properly.
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams Which is not possible any way !!!
Why ?
because Gentile Dogs cannot become the Children of God the Jews !!! Neither can they EVEN eat fallen crumbs of salvation like dogs from the children table with exception of JUST ONE lady Samaritan !!!
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist Everyone is worthy of God's grace, you are confused with this verse even though I had explained it to you. Do you understand what the term Allegorical means?
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand."
JESUS SAID for Salvation is of the Jews” John (4:22)
Then what should the MAJORITY POOR NON JEWISH CHRISTIANS DO ?
Become Jews themselves ?
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams So his disciples came to him and urged him, ‘Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.’ He [Jesus] answered, ‘I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.’ The woman came and knelt before him. ‘Lord, help me!’ she said. He [Jesus] replied ‘It is not right to take the children’s [Jews] bread [blessings and miracles reserved for them] and toss it to their dogs [the Gentiles].’
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams U wrote: "Firstly you lie. Where does Jesus specifically say "he forbids" he doesn't. This Mathew 7:6 Jesus is speaking allegorically."
Well, the bibles clearly states:
Matthew 15:22-28 “A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, ‘Master, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession. Jesus did not answer a word.
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist Firstly you lie. Where does Jesus specifically say "he forbids" he doesn't. This Mathew 7:6 Jesus is speaking allegorically. Basically it means do not persist or waste your time in offering what is sacred or of value to those who have no appreciation for it, because your gift/preaching/teaching will not only become contaminated and be despised and unappreciated, your generous efforts could also be rebuffed and perhaps even openly attacked.
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams Yes, i read bibles maybe more than you brother. I asked you simple questions. But you answered to me with your misinterpretations. Are you believing bibles are %100 Word of God? If yes which version you prefer? Let start with Matthew 28:19. Every scholars say this verse can not be found in most ancient manuscripts.And they say constantine (founder of Christianity) added this verse into your bibles.
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist Obviously your here just to waste time. I couldn't care less if one little verse is debatable. YOU are missing the whole point. None of it changes the fact of who Jesus is and how he lived and also the core teachings of Christianity. As for claiming i am mis-interpreting, I don't think so, that 's just your way of saying you don't like my answers because they are right.
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist You must be joking right? Or you have never read the BIble? Which one is it? This kind of objection usually demonstrates a prejudice against the teaching of the Trinity. Lets look to God's word to see if it is taught or not.
to say that if God wanted us to believe in the Trinity he would have clearly taught it in scripture, is also an invalid argument. Something does not have to be clearly formulated in the Bible to be valid. Not all things taught in the Bible are....
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist Your a great example for Islam. Lying just like your God who the Koran claims is recognized as the greatest deceiver. Look up the Dead sea scrolls, before you make such erroneous comments.
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams Please answer:
1-Where in the bible did Jesus claim to be god?
2-Where in the bible did Jesus ask to be worshiped?
3-Where did Jesus say I am God Manifested in flesh?
4-Where did Jesus mention the original sin?
5-Where did Jesus say I am God the Son?
6-Where did Jesus say that I am God the Word?
7-Where did Jesus say I am the Second God in Trinity?
I also INVITE EVERY CHRISTIAN to LIVE DIALOG in answering-christianity room on paltalk . com.
Peace!
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist
You raised some easy questions
1.Jesus being humble never said the exact words "I am GOD" but he also NEVER said the words " I am a PROPHET" or " I am a MAN" so does that mean he was never a prophet? I don't think so, invalid arguement.
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist 2. Again, if you knew Jesus you would know he never asked for anything, he taught and led by example. There are many examples like, .Matt. 14:33 - "And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God’s Son!" and Matt 4:10, 2:2 2:11, 28:9, John 9:35-38, Heb 1:6
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist 3. Jesus answered, "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. ... Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves." (John 14:10-11).
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist 4. Jesus never mentioned the words "original sin" as they are modern words used to explain a concept.
5.. Again Jesus never had to say these things you continually quote. The immediate reaction of any decent monotheistic believer would be to call the person making such a claim an impostor and a blasphemer. Would you believe someone if they came to you claiming to be God or Son of God? NO you wouldn't and Jesus knew this was not the right approach.......
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist 5. cont......God in the flesh .John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 1:14 - "And the Word became flesh, (son of GOD/JESUS) and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist CONT....John 5:18 - "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God." 6. answered in question 5.
7.. There is only one GOD, not 3 GODs as you again falsly claim. Your lack of biblical understanding is clearly showing.
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist When you read the Gospels carefully you will find that consistently,
* Jesus talks like he is God,
* Jesus acts like he is God,
* Jesus gives evidence for claiming this authority rightfully by performing miraculous signs.
Last point: 4.John 8:58 - "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"
A.Exodus 3:14 - "And God said to Moses, 'I AM WHO I AM'; and He said, Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’"
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
@jilwax360 Because when Jesus entered in to creation and the material world he took on our limitations. It reflects this after Jesus was raised from the dead he was able to do more miraculous things than when he was in Human flesh and purely in the material world.
ChristianRootsMan 1 year ago
@KixDanis
Ok so our sin are forgiven? now we can do wat we want?
all is forgiven? now i can follow any religion i want?
SuperAaban 1 year ago
@jilwax360 You dont understand the bible
JakeHustle2 1 year ago
@JakeHustle2
No one could understand Trinity , Bcoz Christain missionaries says its mystery.
SuperAaban 1 year ago
@jilwax360 Any manifestation on a purely natural plane of an ultimate being would have to be limited and thus be only a part of that being. The comments made by Jesus could easily be interpreted as Jesus telling people that he was a part of God and therefore still God but not all of God.
CliffStamp 1 year ago
When you're dead you are dead. Don't waste your life believing in silly myths!
masala505 1 year ago
@KixDanis You can make this stuff up as you go along can't you?
masala505 1 year ago
I think this video has been cut from it's original,,,you can tell that some statements from lane Craig are cut off the video,,,,fairness is one thing that God also commands...
catroarb 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist
1 John 4:9
"In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him."
John 14:8-10
"Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."... Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me?"
KixDanis 1 year ago
@KixDanis You are claiming that Jesus is the God and we all agree God can not die. So why are you still saying God died for our sins?
1 John 4:9" In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only BEGOTTEN Son into the world" KJV. What do you mean only "son"? Are not the son the father and the holy ghost same person? How can there be an eternal Son when the Bible speaks of the begotten Son, clearly indicating that the Son had a beginning?
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist Oh and btw, as for 19:27, that has nothing to do with hatred. That's just being taken out of context. However, if I'm correct, the beliefs of Islam continually mock women, discredit women, claim that God hates certain types of people, and gives a false account of the life and ministry of Jesus Christ. There seems to be a problem here, friend. Open your heart and your mind! God bless!
Addy4473 1 year ago
@Addy4473
"if I'm correct, the beliefs of Islam continually mock women, discredit women, claim that God hates certain types of people" -Did you hear from somebody or you made your own search on Quran and Hadith?
"claim that God hates certain types of people" -What types of people? Can you give me any verse from Quran says: Allah "hates"...?
"gives a false account of the life and ministry of Jesus Christ." -No, Quran confirms that Jesus was Messiah (in Greek Christ).
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@TrinityDesist the koran gives a false testomony of Jesus. This is true.
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
Comment removed
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@amanwithdreams I was trying to have a nice dialog with you but i saw Jesus' love in your heart and cursing to other beliefs.
You said Jesus is God (Claim to be God), but you FAILED to prove it.
Anyway thank you very much for spending time with us.
Jesus said "Seek the truth and the truth will set you free"
If you or any Christian want to LIVE DIALOG, you can find me in answering-chrisitanity in paltalk. May Allah guide us. Peace!
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
@Addy4473 Islam believes that woman are equal to men, we do not mock them, you are the one who has to open up their mind.
iRuckiz 1 year ago
@iRuckiz Sure seems that way doesn't it.
amanwithdreams 1 year ago
Comment removed
TrinityDesist 1 year ago
did jesus rise from the dead?.... NO
did muhammad split the moon?... NO
was athena born out of a crack in zeus's head?... NO
why debate mythology?
DSAhmed 1 year ago
@DSAhmed Did you even watch the video? Refute Dr. Craig's facts before saying stuff like that.
MrZazomy 1 year ago
@MrZazomy Ok, you have a valid point that i didn't refute his "facts" but the biggest problem with this is that these "facts" are just stories written long after he supposedly lived. There's no proof that these stories are true. The story of Jesus is an allegorical myth based on other previous myths of antiquity. Shabir logically refutes parts of it but still clings to his mythology as stated his "historic" holy book that jesus wasn't killed.
DSAhmed 1 year ago
Okay, now I know you didn't even watch the debate lol. These facts he presents are in agreed upon within the mainstream of NT scholarship, and I know the burial of Jesus, his empty tomb, and the post mortem appearances of Jesus after his death challenge your worldview but that is not a rational reason to deny them without investigation. Also, Shabir AGREES WITH THE FACTS, he just says he survived the crucifixion.
MrZazomy 1 year ago
@DSAhmed Jesus did rise from the dead, that is affirmed. God bless :)
Addy4473 1 year ago
Shabir is such an embarrassing failure. Its no mystery that muslims don't understand the trinity, love, sacrifice or righteousness. How can anyone expect reason or an understanding of God when their belief centres around a liar, cheat, murderer, thief, adulterer & satanic child molester like muhammad. (try denying that muhammad did not act in an evil, perverted & corrupt way through the excrement of his life & you will fail).
wassupzaf 1 year ago
Is this lecture taking place below a bowling alley or something?
HaligonianType1 1 year ago 2
Christians are very confused. They have no proof of anything but they go by human logic and theory.
ZIN025 1 year ago
jesus is the way, the truth, and the life
eddiedko 1 year ago
Man, only if the world can see that Christ is King...
Actually, they will see... one day.. I pray that you are not too late.. who ever reads this. =) God bless
jamaalsabree 1 year ago
again Brother Shabir proves his unbeatable Mash'Allah
DrXoz 1 year ago
because of the crucifiction i renounce Jesus as god... Jesus are u reaaly a god? he answers .... are u crazy!!!
GoodBinGood 1 year ago
William craig has the Spirit of God in him, he is a very strong debater.
isaiahact 1 year ago
mashallah can anyone tell me who is the reciter in the begining please let me know
afghanistan321 1 year ago
@Hrvojecroatian
You wrote: "He sent His Son, born of a virgin, attested by miracles and by a sinless life, to bear the full penalty for humanity's sin."
My question is, what "sin" are you referring to?
hchsbp1 1 year ago
IF God is just Unity that his essence was never Love in the past. God would have just himself, there would be no object of Love. The only "object of his love" would be his creation, which of course didn't have to be made since God wasn't compelled to make it for that reason.
If God is a Trinity then his essence is Love and he creating other beings to share in that Love makes perfect sense.
babystinky 1 year ago
faith is only out of the fear of dying........get over it and on with your one and only life.
JESUStheATHEIST1 1 year ago
@JESUStheATHEIST1 If that isn't committing the Genetic Fallacy then I don't what is. Even if I grant you your belief that "faith is only out of fear of dying" (which I don't believe for a second) then all that would prove is that people believe in God for the wrong reasons. It does not follow that God does not exist, or that we only have one life. You can't falsify a belief by showing how it originated. You falsify a belief by providing better arguments.
Rogue0572 1 year ago
@TwoAngelsVision
Q: Resurrection in Qur'an
A: Give me Surah from Qur'an, which Surah and Ayah you're talking about?
azmondeo 2 years ago
"From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.
Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. "Never, Lord!" he said. "This shall never happen to you!
(continued)
littlegank 2 years ago
"Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men." (Matthew 16:21-23)
- If you deny that Jesus died on the cross and then rose from the dead, you've listened to Satan's voice.
littlegank 2 years ago
Another example of a false belief system is the book of Mormon. To date, not even 1 archaeological item has been found to support the story. Even worse, DNA studies of humans verify the book of Mormon is a false story. The only logical conclusion is that the book of Mormon is false.
Absolutely no archaeological data to support the viewpoint of a so-called holy book reveals that such books are false. The Qur'an and the book of Mormon fit this "no data" requirement.
Seek Jesus, Son of God
TwoAngelsVision 2 years ago
Because archaeological data validates the book of Acts, the Christian viewpoint is a viable faith.
In contrast, the quran remains void of archaeological support for its viewpoint of Jesus. Therefore, the quran is NOT a viable faith. The only possible faith that would accept the quran is BLIND FAITH.
The archaeological data correlating to the book of Acts at the 99.9% confidence level is not circular reasoning. This external evidence is what verifies the quran to be false.
TwoAngelsVision 2 years ago
Circular Reasoning: "when a proposition which requires proof is assumed without proof"
The Qur'an makes completely differrent claims about Jesus than found in the Bible. Is there any archaeological data to support the Quranic view of Jesus?
To date, not even 1 item. Therefore, blind faith in the quran and cirular reasoning dominate muslim views of Jesus.
I cite scholarly works with a large amount of data that validates the book of Acts at the 99.9% confidence level.
TwoAngelsVision 2 years ago
how on earth can the muslims think they have better interpretations of the christian's bible when they (the muslims) only partially accept / believe the words which are written in the christian's bible?
doyanrujak 2 years ago
lets look at a mathematical point of view.
1(a)+2(b)-3(c)=1, where a=3,b=2, c=2.
that would be 1(3)+2(2)-3(2)=1 and
3+4-6=1 and 7-6=1
now let say the above equation is from GOD and if any of the numbers are changed will we get the same answer?
for instance change b=3 the answer would be 3, lets change c =0, the answer would be 6, and so it wont be the same!
bible has been altered numerous times and it cannot be called the true word of GOD however bits and pieces are there. make sense :)
billoodean 2 years ago
which one is more possible to have been altered, the earlier or the later? which one is more authentic, the earlier or the later?
doyanrujak 2 years ago
altered is altered doesnt matter earlier or later. btw what do you mean by earlier or later?
billoodean 2 years ago
More circular reasoning from a BLIND FAITH in the quran viewpoint.
Different versions of the Qur'an were burned by Uthman ~ 653 AD to create the Uthmanic revision of the Qur'an. Anyone who studies Islam knows this. It was a political decision because the quran contradicted itself.
Masud, a compansion of Muhammad refused to burn his version. And if Masud were alive today, he would refuse to read the Uthmaniac revision. He would tell you to your face that the quran is CORRUPT.
TwoAngelsVision 2 years ago 2
@TwoAngelsVision give me your sources plz :S
and get your facts right :-)
PEACE OUT
JUST A NOTE ABOUT MY SUPPOSED MATHEMATICAL EQUATION if c=0 answer would be 7=1 (my bad on that)
billoodean 2 years ago
To begin, your equation is based on circular reasoning and is irrelevant.
Were different versions of the quran burned with fire during the time of Uthman (~653 CE)?
The original quran was completed within 2 years of Muhammad's death. It is referred to as the Hafsah Codex. The text would have been fresh and accurate. However, it is questioned because other close companions of Muhammad made their personal version of the quran.
Read next thread.
TwoAngelsVision 2 years ago
Due to contradictions in various versions of the quran, divisions began to occur within Muslim military ranks. Islamic Hadith validate this problem.
Hudhaifa (the Muslim military general) was afraid of the different recitations of the Qur'an, so he asked 'Uthman (3rd Caliph - leader of Islam), O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Quran as Jews and the
Christians did before. (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 61, Number 150).
Next thread please
TwoAngelsVision 2 years ago
@TwoAngelsVision
You proving the point: Companions learnt Qur'an by heart, 1st Khaliph, Abu Bakr has decided to collect the different chapters and verses into one volume, In about 650, as Islam expanded beyond the Arabian peninsula into Persia, the Levant and North Africa, the 3rd Khaliph Uthman ibn Affan ordered the preparation of an official, standardized version, to preserve the sanctity of the text. Book was collected and gathered into one by companions themselves who never differed in it
azmondeo 2 years ago
Viewpoints held by Muslims more than 600 years after Jesus are not credible. Do I believe the eyewitnesses or someone who is trying to constantly revise history (i.e. muslims).
The true disconnect between the Bible and the quran is that archaeological data validates the Biblical texts. The claims of the quran do not have even 1 item to date. Therefore BLIND FAITH in the quran is required. BLIND FAITH is the foundation of spiritual deception. Show me data to support the quranic view of Jesus!
TwoAngelsVision 2 years ago
@TwoAngelsVision
Q: 'Do I believe the eyewitnesses or someone who is trying to constantly revise history'
A: If you don't believe prophesies of God's Prophets, that can come anytime after billion years but testify the Truth of the present then you truly disregard God's Light. Well, if you want to believe in only Book that you have. Then read it thoroughly, there is a Wisdom for the ones who want to know the Truth. And you'll be Judged by the Book you're given. Peace and God's mercy be to you!
azmondeo 2 years ago
The only true prophets are found in the Bible. Muhammad is the greatest of all false prophets (deceivers). You have been given understanding that the quran has been REVISED and burned for political purposes. So why do you defend such a book when there is nothing to support its validity?
Muhammad claimed to receive revelation from Archangel Gabriel. So did Daniel in the Old Testament. Comparing the quran to Daniel gives keen insight into the issue of spiritual possession vs revelation.
TwoAngelsVision 2 years ago
@TwoAngelsVision
Q: ''The only true prophets are found in the Bible''
A: Jesus spoke of Muhammad's coming, and Songs of Solomon, chapter5 recalls Him by His name.
azmondeo 2 years ago
The problem with your statement of Muhammad being foretold in the Bible is that ONLY muslims believe that. Why?
Because quran is not credible and needs more support. So you use circular reasoning and attempt to find support. No Biblical scholars teach what you claim because it is made up by Muslims misinterpreting the words to fit their belief system.
How do I know the quran is false?
Read my responses to your other comments.
Jesus is PEACE! Invite him and you will have eternal life.
TwoAngelsVision 2 years ago
@TwoAngelsVision
Q: No Biblical scholars teach what you claim because it is made up by Muslims misinterpreting the words to fit their belief system.
A: Do you speak Hebrew? Of course, no one will want to teach whatever they don't want to teach. But His very name is there, you can't do nothing about it. You will be in my position if you try to prove to a Jew that Jesus was mentioned in OT. Why not to look for support in previous books, wouldn't you do that? Of course you would!
azmondeo 2 years ago
I looked for Muhammad, Mohammad, or for such derivatives in Strong's concordance for the entire Bible. Strong's is based on the original languages, which are Hebrew and Aramaic for the Old Testament .
Guess what? The name is non-existent.
You've been reading the lies of muslim commentaries who have to attempt to buttress the quran.
TwoAngelsVision 2 years ago
@TwoAngelsVision
Q: You've been reading the lies of muslim commentaries who have to attempt to buttress the quran.
A: I think you getting a bit angry. Muslims are accused for being impatient, and uneducated.
Google this: mechon-mamre
Jewish website, OT books in original Hebrew Text and English translation, with audio link to chapters.
The word was translated, not taken as a Name (which in fact fits to be name, noun with suffux ''-im'' meaning plurality, respect).
azmondeo 2 years ago
The word was translated as attribute, not taken as a Name (which in fact fits to be name, noun with suffux ''-im'' meaning plurality, respect), but no, it is very disastrous to take it as a Name, so they preferred an attribute, and kept it that way, now, whoever translates it as a noun (honoured name) they will be accused of trying to buttress the qur'an. I think you're afraid of facing the truth more than losing one! Keep the dialogue live, peacful and neutral, please!
azmondeo 2 years ago
I think you're afraid of facing the truth more than losing one! Keep the dialogue alive, peacful and neutral, please!
Some Christians claimed that Chapter 5 is talking about Jesus (PBUH). How can one claim that Muslims are trying to butress Qur'an, when Christians try to fit Jesus into that personage, only because Chapter has the word 'beloved'!? What about ''...his locks are curled, and black as a raven..''?
azmondeo 2 years ago
I am completely assured of my faith in Christ for several reasons.
1) Born again experience as a child.
2) Archaeological data validates the Bible.
3) Scientific data supports that the universe did not begin by chance. people who believe this do so on blind faith. Due to science's inability to explain the universe, we ask, "Shall we expect to observe supernatural events in this universe?"
Jesus death and resurrection are supported based on archaeolgical evidence correlating to texts.
TwoAngelsVision 2 years ago
@TwoAngelsVision
Q: Jesus death and resurrection are supported based on archaeolgical evidence correlating to texts
A: There were different views in those days, some didn't believe that Jesus died on the cross.
azmondeo 2 years ago
On the day of Pentecost, the closest followers of Jesus were united and spoke boldly of Jesus' death and resurrection.
In those days, all were united and taught the truth of Jesus' death and resurrection.
Were other false gospels written at that time?
None have been found. All false gospels were were written after the 1st century.
Finally, the Gallio Inscription validates that the early day Christians taught Jesus' death and resurrection from the beginning.
TwoAngelsVision 2 years ago