159 eurednecks disliked this video because when they think of council of ex-muslims, they think of brown immigrants.
lets face it, these dimwit racists don't like people of other races. thus it doesn't matter if CoEM speaks out against islam, they lump them in with political islamists for the sole reason that they are of non-european origin. reason demands that you judge each person by their actions, not by the actions of a few in the group that you eurednecks associate them with. now fuck off.
@ufster81 Eurednecks, that’s a new one, I will steal that from you.
Anyway, most Europeans disassociate themselves from Wilders and his alike’s (every country has its own version of Wilders, usually with an even worse haircut)
for the love of everything, DO NOT CONDEMN THAT MOVIE PEOPLE NEED TO WATCH IT. however i do not agree with the message that it is sending. even if i don't agree i would not want it banned. people need to understand that there are people that are actually THAT fucking stupid. this guy, unless i got my information wrong, actually held a political seat, and was or is running again. he has a brain that functions on the same level as Bush...that is a HUGE fucking problem....
You can take the person out of Islam but you can’t take Islam out of the person. The council of ex-muslims has all the arrogance and certainty about ‘how right ‘ they are as they did when they were practicing muslims. They are now lecturing us on freedom of speech and immigration!!!
. Immigration, especially of large numbers of uneducated, tribal muslims does cause huge concern to most Europeans. How dare they label that concern as ’right wing’. Next, we see them discussing whether Fitna ought to be banned (once again the ‘Muslim’ mind in action). I used to support the Ex-muslim Council , After seeing this not any more.
@mucalinda What worries me about this is how ‘muslim’ the response of the Ex-muslim council members is. They state their agenda is the impact Islam is having in Islamic countries and not in European ones. How very noble of them towards the countries that have given them refuge.
Well the immigration is what is causing the islamization of Europe so it is a valid thing to bring up for a Europeean politician. It is not like muslim immigration is something we are requried to have by some law of nature. I think what many europeen wants is to contain the islamic problem as much as possible to the middleeast and let islam self-destruct. Possibly we in the west can help with knowledge, information and encouragement.
Also.. a survey in UK showed that 1/3 of muslims thought that the british society was immoral and that they should seek to replace it with sharia. There have been similar surveys in other countries like Germany as an example with similar results. So that there are many deeply religious people among the immigrats is clear. I do agree that it is secularism that needs to be promoted though, not "judeo-christian" values as Wilders puts it.
Wilders is not eqauating islamic jihad with all "moderate" muslims, Wilders always makes that distinction. Radical problems require radical soultions though and since we can't know which muslim immigratns are radical we need to stop the immigration from muslim countries completely. In Sweden only about 5-10% of immigrants have refugee status so economic opportunity and reltive connection area more common causes for immigration. The segregation that follows promotes radicalization.
sadly, hitler was supported by the majority of germans, this gives you an idea about how much can the people be manipulated, and about the necessity of the constitution defending the human rights and invalidating any policies by politicians who are supported by the majority of the people and that violate the human rights.
but of course, we can reduce the chances of such politicians to ever arrive to power through education, the more educated a people the less manipulable it is.
what is important here is that the states have constitutions that are based on the universal declaration of human rights, and that any project of law or policy that would violate it would be immediately invalidated, even if it is supported by the majority of people.
because otherwise, imagine that the majority of the people agrees with for example executing or imprisoning the homosexuals, this would be a gross violation of human rights, and it must be constitutionally censored.
Hitler did what he did because he was a dictator and he openly used hate speech, denied many germans their rights and killed many of them, without being stopped by any law.
But with today's constitutional laws against hate speech, against abuse of power, that limit the power of the rulers and that protect the human rights against any attempts at violating them by the rulers, no Hitler can emerge again.
that's why we must defend these laws at all costs.
personally i don't know much about Wilders, i don't live in the netherlands, but my opinion is that such politicians must be let free to express themselves unless they openly insult a certain category of the population or call for violence against it, in which case the law against hate speech and incitment to violence must be applied.
but a mere political speech against immigration or certain multi-culturalist ideas, or in favor of "traditional values" is just a free speech.
"all those who do not follow my god will go to hell for eternity, they are sinners and deserve eternal torture" this is free speech by a fundamentalist religious person , it has to be allowed and tolerated, because it's a mere religious opinion.
"we must fight and kill all those who do not believe in the right god until they believe" this is a hate speech and an incitation to violence , it must not be tolerated, and those who say it must be punished.
This woman with the red cheeks and red hair.....I think you got the point...yes Geert Wilders is anti-immigration......of muslims.....this was exactly his point...stop immigration from Muslim countries because their people do not assimilate into Dutch society.....covering your entire body and face is not Danish.....he also has made the point that a some muslims have been there for decades and can't speak a word of Dutch...he is attempting to preserve his culture for his children and future....
Yellow-shirt (Reza Moradi).. That was crap - the vid was not anti-immigrant. It was anti-islamic-violence. The immigration problem was shown as a reaction to the muslims saying "Islam will take over the world"...
That guy (back of head) was completely wrong, I watched Fitna and there was not christian propagation... The vid was entirely secular or neutral as far as I can see and concentrated on the violent aspects (or followers) of islam.
8DX I completely agree......Mr. Wilders makes the conclusion that their Dutch society has values which have developed over time which are based on Christianity....he would like to change the constitution to reflect this.....which I think is a wise move
It doesn't matter what Islam officialy means or what the spirit of the quran is. Islam is what people make of it and people have made it into a monster.
You don't understand. I don't care if there's a liberal or peacefull Islam also. Islam is a scource of murder and that's what counts.. a million other muslims praying doesn't make that right. Not ever.
So, I'm not interrested in islam, I don't believe in Islam. I just want to be safe from Islam..or any other religion that tries to effect the lives of others
what monsters ? and even if we suppose there are indeed monsters who are muslims , who decided that it is them who represent islam ? islam is represented by muslims , and the vast majority of muslims are not monsters , as far as i know.
yes , there are extremists in islam , but why should the non-extremists stop them ? don't you support freedom of opinion ? it seems here that you are demanding religious persecution against extremist muslims ...
I draw the line where an opinion is forced on others by violence and if it propagades hatred against others.
And I'm saying you're wasting your time telling people like me there's many faces of islam. I don't care about that, they don't bother me. But if you're saying I should respect the opinion of extremists you're part of the problem and another reason to think that Islam is only about protecting their own and disrespects the feelings of infidels who don't like to be cursed and bombed
everyone has the right to have an opinion , and nobody has the right to stop people from expressing their views , be they fundamentalist, liberal , moderate , atheist, etc , this is freedom of speech.
as for bombing , well , here it seems that you are talking about criminals , of course criminals should be dealt with by the state and the law, dealing with criminals is the responsibility of the state and not of ordinary citizens.
There's a difference between having an opinion and being mad. Yes we can stop racists and fascists and so must we stop Muslims fundamentalists who think they are ubermensch too.
Or would you stick up for neonazis the same way you "respect' fundamentalists??
Fundamentalists don't respect points of views of others and so should we make them shut up and put them in a safe place....I know they'd like to do the same with me so fuck them. No respect!
And if a person thinks he's moral superior and thinks my life is less worthy than a muslim life. Even without acting on that. That person is wrong and should be corrected, not accepted.
And if you think even racists deserve respect as if there's nothing wrong with thinking in races and not human beings.. Than you should be corrected too. But I think you only defend racists to justify defending fundamentalist too.
Fundamentalism was maybe acceptable in the dark ages. But in 2010 it's an obsolete and ridiculous stand.
i'm not defending racists or fundamentalists; i'm just defending their right to have opinions freely.
ridiculous or extreme ideolgies can be easily defeated only by education, logic and free speech, and not persecution, only a small bunch of imbeciles will follow them anyway.
it's in fact the fascistic states such as iran that need to supress free speech in order to protect their ideology, but a secular democratic system doesn't need to suppress free speech in order to survive.
That's interresting because Wilders uses free speech to exagerate numbers and twist facts to make a point. He does have a lot of followers because he uses strong and symplified arguments that appeal to gut feelings people have like fear and mistrust. He stresses the importance of our western/christian identity and polarizes the nation in etnic/religious groups.
Using free speech he advocates conspiracy theories and accuses muslim organisations, the political left and the media to have hidden agendas and secret ties to eachother.
He warns for conflict, poverty and loss of control. And stresses the need for (his) strong leadership.
He does not debate. Simply says "I'm right, they're wrong"
As I said, he has a large number of followers, potential voters.
He's what you'd call an extremist fundamentalist. And I think he undermines a healthy secular democracy.
And he doesn't need bombs to do it. It's the ideology that incites anger and violence until anger and violence becomes the ideology.
Maybe that's where I have a different view than you have. I see extremism and fundamentalism, religious or nationalistic, as a powerful counterforce to democracy that should be confronted to protect freedom of choice and equal rights for all.
well , i agree with you that there are numerous unscrupulous politicians, like sarkozy in France, who target immigrants and minorities, and put all the blame on them for the problems of a country in order to hide their own political failures or to be elected because they promise radical solutions that would bring marvels to a country in crisis, Hitler did the same thing with the jews, he designated them as the scapgoat and promised marvels for germany, and look at the result.
The problem isn't "political Islam", it is "Islam". Islam *is* a system of politics, it is as illogical to say "political Islam" as it is "political communism"!
I agree. Especially in light that communism is not a political system but an economic system, just like Islam is not a political system but a religious system.
Islam is no system of government. Islam has certain rules in it to govern,because Mohammed conquered citys and had to handle those in this or that way.
Islam is a beliefsystem.
It is like saying,that Christianity is a system of government. It is not,but it has the "given" rules in it to govern.
And sure both havent anything to do with democracy,because there cant be independence for the people when an old despot is in the sky and rules everything without questioning for all time.
The video says "Political Islam", there is no such thing, the majority of Islamic belief IS political - i.e. it is a system of government that is incompatible with democracy.
Growth in followers of Islam is an surreptitious decline of democracy.
And I disagree with ANY religious based system of government. I was merely pointing out that this video incorrectly tries to separate Islam and "political Islam" as two different things, when it is in fact one.
The big difference with Islam is that because Muhammad "ruled" for 23 years there is a LOT of governmental material to draw from.
I am not chauvinistic at all, I don't believe in superiority, I just prefer what I have; which is why I live here and not somewhere else.
Geert Wilders is from my country. And I can tell you this, he's an imbecilic assclown most similar in US terms to someone like Glenn Beck.
If you like him just because he 'speaks out against Islam' (Which he does extremely poorly, and in a similar way to rednecks saying 'We dun wan no muslin's in hear!') Then you don't have a clue about him.
His supporters also are the closest thing we have in the Netherlands TO rednecks.
So I recommend against foreigners getting enamoured with this fool.
The members of the council of ex-muslims don't like the idea of only islam being critisized. But I think that this is justified. Our Christian religious beliefs, at least in most European parts, are already secularised. Further, only muslims kill others because they don't SPEAK in accordance to their beliefs and, - things must be called by their name, they do this with reference to the kuran and NOT in contrary to that, as often mistakenly claimed.
It's about time we get the cane out of the cupboard and start using on religious extremists in the UK.
Anyone making anti-western comments like ''slay those who insult Islam'' should be arrested and deported to their country of origin even if they are a British citizen.
The bottom line is, if you don't like western values then don't live in a western country. Go and live in an Islamic country.
sir , even if I do NOT agree with your "shipping" statement , I do have to agree with you on the simple notion that , IF people feel so bad living IN a Western Society WHY are they here ?
And the answer is quite obvious , or not ... because in the WEST there is something like FREE speech ... where as in muslim countrys the simple Idea of FREE Speech is unthinkable !
Do not get me wrong , the people living there would love to have free speech , but not the Regimes who govern them !
@Zed1967 They are to coward to live in Islamic Country... They know that in western Country they can pretty much say anything, witch wouldn't be the case in Islamic country...
@Zed1967 that is despicable just because someone doesnt agree with you does not mean that you can take their rights away i make what some people would call antiwestern comments all the time. guess what i am a legal citizen of the US and my family is connected to royalty in the UK do you think that just because i criticizes what people call the west i should be deported to the UK or should they follow my family further back maybe to where we all came from.that's Africa for all you bible thumpers.
@Zed1967 the same could be said for every christian who has ever lived. by being a christian, they openly support the crusades and inquisition. does that mean they don't deserve rights? EVERYBODY deserves rights. if someone violates someone else's rights, that is the only time it is okay to remove rights. you cannot take rights away from a whole group because of a few. or even because of the majority. if someone is not directly involved, then they deserve all the rights you enjoy.
Apart from the odd fruit cake that feels justified to shoot doctors because they offer pregnancy terminations I don't see many Christians killing in the name of Jesus, most of them are benign.
When someone feels justified to kill and maim indiscriminately for the sake of an imaginary sky daddy then they have no rights in my opinion and the religion that they are connected to which doesn't condemn such actions deserves no rights either.
Just as I get rabidly angry when I read about the atrocities committed by the british during their rule of my country, I get even more pissed when I see those cunts show absolutely no respect for the respective countries they move to. Why can't they f'in stay in their precious homelands if they hate their new homes so much...
In secular societies, ALL religions are criticised. Why should Islam be immuned to that? Because they threaten violence? All the MORE reason to criticise.
not knowing ehnt it descended and why not having much backround but "following2 people like this Geert character for the sake of attacking a whole religion.Question is where are you going with your attempts o sound well read on Islam???
Either way,your still saying what i think your saying so its whatever on the details.
Tell me if you were so saddened to find what you found then why what do you intend to do with those "findings" what do aim to achieve..exposing islam???
"kill them wherever you find them unless there is a chance they will convert" what are yo talking about more like.If you have taken time out to research aboput Islam its obvious yo spent much of your time in vain because your clearly biased,and a few verses will make you non the less intellegient than the negt anti islamic Bigot!
Geert no doubt took his tactics of demonising a religious groups and using media as a tool for propaganda as he lived his early life in germany during the genecide of the Jews.
the film may have been a bit sensationalist but it raised some serious issues that needs to enter into the normal discourse. Do we (the west) want to invite large numbers of people into our society when they have very different attitudes to social freedom and the place of religion. Are we sacrificing our freedoms, hard won, in the name of multiculturalism? Only recently I have started to think that I am uneasy with the immigration of large numbers of muslims as they never seem to assimilate
Nevr sem to assimilat? what a load of rubbish,please difine assimilation as you think it,just because i dont drink,and reveal my body does this threaten you hard fought for freedomn,does it threaten democracy.Multiculturism is a comoplete other issue,you seem to be effected by areas of race as well as religion,do these new found ideals of yours not threaten liberal democracy themselves.
Then I'm sorry to tell you you need to go back to school to learn reading again, or are you just biased while you read, like wilders? are you wilders? hahah
Yeah, it's a dismal film. However, as over 50% of 'Muslims' in the UK believe that the penalty for apostasy should be death, it is clear that these people have not assimilated any Western values. The film was anti MUSLIM immigration, not anti immigration. There is a big difference.
If someone chooses not to believe, that's everyones own choise. Nobody (except parents) got anything to say about how another person should live.
Wilders used to have a girlfriend which he loved with all his heart, he was so over the top of her. But eventually the relation broke up for a muslim guy, the girl liked him more (is wilders even attractive?). And since then he hates muslims, and this movie is one of his psychological revenge tacts. Nothing more than that.
And to react on myself. I think if people can't think for themselfs, and watch this movie, don't search for information if he is really on the right end and start hating muslims... I think those people are plain dumb to be honest, it's good to use your free and intellectual mind to research this very well before you start being like a parrot of wilders.
I think my point is made.
Respect to everyone, religion or not. Let eachother believe and live as they wish.
But you are forgetting there are so many hadith, and a hadith is nothing more than an interpetation of the Qur'an.. It doesn't neceserraly have to be on the right end, and about all sorts of moslims have different hadith. So which one am I for example upholding?(If I am even upholding any Hadith and not making my own by reading the Qur'an myself)
There are only beautiful guidelines in the Qur'an, not one untruth, not one damaging, conflicting, or in your words nasty things.
you dont understand how painfull it is when your family member is killed in front of your eyes when ther person killed him was using religion...its not so easy to forgive..
im sorry i disagree...if you are being persecuted then you have the right to fight back...if people wanna use religion to start shit with the muslims then were gonna use religion to fight back..the islamic world plays by the rule it is them that start the shit...!!
Islam says Muslims cannot condemn other Muslims. If some Muslims are killing non-Muslims then others Muslims are obligated to let it happen.
If you are Muslim you are condemned to death for leaving.
Islam is a plague. If you disagree then stand up, change the Quran, and fight the people blowing others up. Take responsibility for your religion instead of being an apologist.
The scriptures of the jews are changed and now if you read it, it says horrible things in some parts, for example to kill everyone with different religions. So does the bible.
In the Koran it says to respect other religions, from start to end, if you don't believe me read it for yourself instead of believing kafirs.
"In the Koran it says to respect other religions, from start to end, if you don't believe me read it for yourself instead of believing kafirs."
AHAHA!
Sura (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
A lot of other religions don't. And besides Jews and Christians aren't safe either: "nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book"
And I do fight christians and jews indeed, but with words :) It does not say hurt nor kill.. we are not allowed to kill, only out of self defense. The Koran is huge byteresistor, you really don't have to be afraid of us. Peace and love is what we strive for.
he was speaking about the agenda of the Ex-Muslim council, he was saying their group does not have the same goal as this films creator did. They do not desire a denial of Islam to Europe just want a secular state where it does not have control.
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy [a] everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.
Islam, much like every other religion, is unable to handle criticism for the simple reason that even a curious child can peel back the layers of nonsense and hilarious epistemology to reveal, naked, frightened idiots.
The only defence you have for the indefensible is censorship.
If the Muslims and "muslims" fleeing Political Islam are so offended by Geert, they shouldn't be. Instead, they should be joining him and rallying with him. Any intelligent person should know who he targeted with Fitna. If the non-extremist muslims and mideasterners are really serious about ending and leaving behind this utter raping of their people, they need to speak up against it and not Geert who intended to reveal it.
Anti-immigration... idiots have their heads up their asses.
Even ex-muslims twist what Wilders has to say, littleharry?
Accept it then from someone who actually lives in NL reads the papers, & watches the interviews:
"Git" (as O'Reiley correctly named him) Wilders is an populist xenophobe who has found electoral success on a militant anti-immigration platform with muslims playing satan.
Had he lived in the US, he would have targeted the Mexians & perhaps all Catholics.
I can't say much about Geert as I've merely heresay about how much of a douche he apparently is. That said, as an American looking in, ESPECIALLY after the anti-blasphemy proposition in the UN, I feel more than inclined to believe what Geert is saying. It's not as if Mexicans are trying to rob America of free speech, threaten us with violence and murder if we call them on their BS, or are teaching people to hate Jews, so that's not a very convincing analogy. Yet some(many?) Muslims do all this.
And for the record, O'Reily is about as competent a news caster as a mute man is an oratory. What O'Reily says needs to be taken with a 10 ton grain of salt because his views and distorted perception is out of touch with America at large, let alone something across the Atlantic.
mm, I am a bit disappointed that they only latched on to the "anti-immigration"aspect and had nothing positive to say about how he is raising awareness of how violence is a serious problem in Islam and encouraged by parts of the Koran. I don;t really know -- he may be too right-wing -- but it seems over optimistic to believe that a large proprtion the people immigrating to his small country from Islamic countries will be secularist freedom fighters
Also I would have hoped these people would have been open-minded enough to see that a person doesn;t necessarilyt have to be a rabid racist to be a bit concerned about a very rapid influx of people of a different culture to a small country known for its tolerant western values. It almost seems like these people have decided together what their party line witll be on this and they will say nothing positive about the film. Perhaps they are afraid to
its a clear fact that the moderated people of ANY religion is the powerbase for the radical elements. the mentioning of the moderate people in the movie is irrelevant! The sole reason is that the moderates WILL DO NOTHING to stop their own religion. so again, objective evidence and recapping videos recorded BY terrorists and radical elements is NOT rasist. statistic evidence is not anti imigration either, if a foreign influence becomes a danger, then you MUST consider it.
Most of those European leaders who condemn Fitna have admitted that they had not even seen it.
Other than that, why are we spending all this time looking at the back of a mans head, who is spouting absurdities from the front. I want to examine his face to determine the extent of his lies...
we are affraid of arabs, becouse most of them are muslims, and we are afftaid of islamists.
generalisations always hurt people that arent like the majority, and belive me, noone will be affraid of you if you show them you are pro human rights.
dont blame us that we are anti imigration, when those imigrants dont want to fit into our society.
but all the best luck to everyone brave enough to be secular in islamic countries.
Immmigration and changing the very social structure of the a country are separate. In < 50 years, aboriginal Europeans will be a minority there. Shall a country change into what those new immigrants to that country decide it should be? Political Islamization isn't a "bogey-man", or myth. As the Islamic minority grows as % relative to indiginous populations, so does the political violence committed by them. Once the % reaches 35-40% things get very ugly. Lebanon is an example of Islamization.
Obviously the propagation of Islam has a correlation to immigration from islamic countries. Your apparent denial of this seems somewhat absurd. Of course not all Arabs, Persians, etc are muslim; but most are.
I also believe that Wilders is a secularist as he often espouses humanist values.
I think this response to the film is very unfair on Geert Wilders. He often makes the distinction between muslims (as people) and Islam (as an ideology); he is against the latter only - this is clear. But you think not.
my doubts regarding Islam commenced at the tender age of 14 when i was but a lad. these doubts emanated from Islam's approval of eating animal meat and my sexuality, which i was beginning to explore. a man should be allowed to love whoever he wants, man, woman, or animal. well now i am free from islam i can do what i want. why should i answer to anyone, even british law, which is man made. from this day forth, no animal shall be free from my lustings. thank you council of ex-muslims.
Nations, and other large groups (ie, muslims), are not evil. There are evil individuals, and they can get into positions of power, but all the people are just like you and me.
95% of them would help you in times of need or if you were being attacked.
4% of them would be unable or unwilling to be involved.
1% of them are psychopaths who might go out of their way to do you harm. All societies suffer these percentages. imho
I think Mr Wilders made excellent points in Fitna - these people seem to be missing them. I do wish that he had given more attention to my above points, however, it's only a few minutes long, so I think he did well with the time allotted.
He is ALSO entitled to his opinion, whether people agree with him or not.
I personally DO agree with him and am at a loss that these interviewers seem to have missed what the film was trying to convey.
The only mentions immigration at the very end, and only to highlight the fact that Europe is only going to face more pressure from Islam in the future. To say that Fitna is critical of immigration and not Islam is a gross distortion. The responses to the film that are portrayed in this video are shameful. The people interviewed seem to have very poor comprehension skills, and it almost makes me question if they were strongly biased. This video promotes misinformation about an important film.
I really have to wonder what film these people watched. Aside from the film's warnings about violence in Islam, the main criticism was of European politician's blatant cowardice in the face of the political Islamic movement. His criticism is warranted as is his deep concern. Everyone should be concerned when freedom of speech is attacked on such a large scale. The descriptions of Wilder's film from the people interviewed are distortions that ignore the larger issue.
The messages SHOULD be - the extremism is being taught to Muslim children in the madrassas and to people in Mosques in both Britain and in the US; AND - that western governments need to stop capitulating to Islamic lifestyles in western cultures.
People are free to live any lifestyle as long as it doesn't interfere with cultural norms and doesn't break laws. Islam is being given special treatment and it should NOT be.
You are right, but keep in mind that the people interviewed in this video do a piss poor job in evaluating Wilder's film. Wilder's film addresses violence in Islam, but his main point is the capitulation of European politicians to Islamic demands. He is specifically focused on the cowardice of his colleagues and he is correct to call them into question when they are willing to throw away free speech. The interviewees here all seem to have an obvious bias, willfully distorting the truth.
Extremists no matter what they are preaching whether it be something religion or even conservation of the planet, do and say things which are outside what the majority of people believe in and or follow. However, the problem is that there will always be people who are easily controlled/swayed who will fight for a cause which to us is nonsensical.
We cannot however, base our opinion of a religion/cause based on the views of the extremists!!
The extremists are, unfortunately, the ones who do not cherry pick their religious texts. While the moderates retain the "good stuff" based on their own moral compass, religious fundamentalists derive their morals completely from it. Read Bin Laden's "Letter to America". In it, he uses passages of the Quran to justify, very logically, his agenda against America. Can you prove him wrong from *within the context of the Quran*? Its impossible. His arguments are watertight from within core Islam.
Within core islam is where the argument can be made. Prove the Koran as a system of domination and not a religion then Bin Laden will write another letter to America saying he's sorry for the earlier tripe. Can I get Bin Laden's number? He and I are gonna have a little chat. I'll let him know what's up.
This is fucking stupid. The movie is about the world domination at all cost agenda shown in some parts of the Quaran and IMO it could just as well have been made by militant Muslims apart from the end where he suggest tearing the pages from the Quaran.
The people in this video seem to be the moderates and they are the real problem. Philosophy & religion is supposed to be extreme and they should be proud of it. Muslims should be offended by these sort of people, but not Geert Wilders.
"TCEM state that Fitna is more anti-immigrant than anti-Islam, in that it labels all immigrants coming from the Middle-East as being the source of the problem."
you say it yourself in your info box, Piro... yet i dont know how most of the interviewees come to the conclusions they present here. another point would be, if those immigrants are escapees from oppression, why are they (a specific but growing group) trying to impose those same socio-political conditions they tried to escape from?
"you say it yourself in your info box, Piro... yet i dont know how most of the interviewees come to the conclusions they present here."
To answer that, I think you'd have to see it from the perspective of the COEM. If I'm not mistaken, most of them come from "Islamic nations. So when Wilders makes the link between growing #'s of Muslim immigrants and terrorist acts, it's implying that all immigrants breed terrorism. That's my understanding.
i understand this point, Piro, yet its not the only possible explanation and i would "bet", not even the intended one. there are surely "stories of success" just like those we see discussing here. yet the statistics are almost "threatening". how many britains muslims are longing for sharia? what about the parallel turkish society in germany? in their own words; demanding, yet refusing to show respect...
"another point would be, if those immigrants are escapees from oppression, why are they (a specific but growing group) trying to impose those same socio-political conditions they tried to escape from?"
You use "they" as if "they" are a homogeneous group. I'm sure some are but some aren't. Again, I'm guessing many COEM members would have certainly have come from Islamic nations, but I'd aren't trying to impose Sharia law.
sure. i dont know who "they" are in person (actually i do know some personally), however, im relating here to statistics. sounds almost worn out, yet if theres a growing, demanding community, one knows where to look for the trouble makers.
e.g.; wilders never proposed deportations of muslims because they were muslims. he proposed deportations of criminals with double or foreign citizenship.
those here in the interview are integrated and they are even more liberal than myself. yet they fail to address specific key issues like the compartmentalizing of the immigrant muslim societies. if those parallel societies are their (islämic in general) goal, they will simply take us over. this will likely end up badly even for those "integrated" ones.
i dont care about my "white genes", Piro, what i do care about is our liberal society. and im afraid if we want to protect it from destruction we will have to push some buttons we normally consider inappropriate.
How does the political islam get into Europe? By immigration from islamic countries. How do you stop the political islam in Europe? By stopping the immigration from islamic countries.
Why shoud Europe allow political islam to grow in Europe? It's not Europes responsibility to solve problems of political islam.
The bottom line is that muslims can not stand any form of criticism on their barbaric religion. The whole muslim world gets mad when Israel invades the Gaza strip, yet when the Islamic Janjahweed militias kill thousands of innocent civilians in Darfur, you don't hear them. This is typical muslim behavior - obsessed with the western world and jews in particular, and totally incapable of self-critique. It's always someone else's fault.
The Dutch govt also made a HUGE mistake prosecuting him for hate speech. They have ironically demonstrated they are against freedom of speech, and, while Wilders is undoubtedly against non white immigration, the film doesn't explicitly urge people to take up arms against muslims. The Dutch govt'll just make a martyr of him - ridiculous.
Sure. This is from Wilder's Dec 2008 speech in Israel:
"More than forty years ago a British politician gave a famous speech. He stated that, looking into the future, he saw rivers of blood as a result of the uncontrolled influx of immigrants. Enoch Powells speech was the starting point of a debate on mass immigration in Europe.
Looking back, I share Enoch Powells alarmist views on mass immigration"
Well I know the number of criminals from immigrant groups is "disproportionate" all across Europe. Over half the people in British prisons are coloured now, according to one MP on the TV. We don't have that many coloured people in Britain and we used to have a lot less...
Then 7/7, Madrid, suicide murderers, the extremists, the Islam that murders oppostion apostates, sorry executes... He can say it if he likes. He's quoting Churchill too. Of course Britain still had colonies when he said those things, but its Churchill!
In answer to your assertion that over half the British people in prison are "coloured"...
In 2001, the latest year I can get figures for, 85% of the British population were classified 'white British'. Meaning 15% of UK residents were NOT WHITE BRITISH.
Yet in 2008, 7 years later, 19% of the prison population were from a minority ethnic (ie non white) group.
Hardly 50%. Who was this tool of an MP?
Oh but wait, maybe some of those 'white British' were really 'coloured', after all.
...Well there you go I've been lied to by a politician! Yes it looks like its been around 20 percent for a few years.
Sounded like a disaster! A nineteen eighties Neo Nazis propaganda come true. I was even feeling sorry for them. And he was wrong about 7% of the population being "coloured" to by the looks of it. Its higher more like 15%.
It was a conservative MP I think... Where did you get 2008 from?
Atheists= confused douchebags
cyber0nemesis 3 months ago
Bible=toiletpaper
Talmud=kosher toiletpaper
Quran=used toiletpaper
sonykroket 3 months ago
159 eurednecks disliked this video because when they think of council of ex-muslims, they think of brown immigrants.
lets face it, these dimwit racists don't like people of other races. thus it doesn't matter if CoEM speaks out against islam, they lump them in with political islamists for the sole reason that they are of non-european origin. reason demands that you judge each person by their actions, not by the actions of a few in the group that you eurednecks associate them with. now fuck off.
ufster81 7 months ago
@ufster81 Eurednecks, that’s a new one, I will steal that from you.
Anyway, most Europeans disassociate themselves from Wilders and his alike’s (every country has its own version of Wilders, usually with an even worse haircut)
wybo2 5 months ago
that woman is having her rosy filter on. she can't see what's in front of her, only what she want to see.
why is it so hard for politicians to talk straight?
-no matter if its far left or far right, they all are a bunch of assholes with hidden agendas.
unless, of course WE always vote for a bunch of retards whom has no place at all governing the rest of us.
Carnei 10 months ago
for the love of everything, DO NOT CONDEMN THAT MOVIE PEOPLE NEED TO WATCH IT. however i do not agree with the message that it is sending. even if i don't agree i would not want it banned. people need to understand that there are people that are actually THAT fucking stupid. this guy, unless i got my information wrong, actually held a political seat, and was or is running again. he has a brain that functions on the same level as Bush...that is a HUGE fucking problem....
MobileThinker 1 year ago
You can take the person out of Islam but you can’t take Islam out of the person. The council of ex-muslims has all the arrogance and certainty about ‘how right ‘ they are as they did when they were practicing muslims. They are now lecturing us on freedom of speech and immigration!!!
mucalinda 1 year ago
. Immigration, especially of large numbers of uneducated, tribal muslims does cause huge concern to most Europeans. How dare they label that concern as ’right wing’. Next, we see them discussing whether Fitna ought to be banned (once again the ‘Muslim’ mind in action). I used to support the Ex-muslim Council , After seeing this not any more.
mucalinda 1 year ago
@mucalinda What worries me about this is how ‘muslim’ the response of the Ex-muslim council members is. They state their agenda is the impact Islam is having in Islamic countries and not in European ones. How very noble of them towards the countries that have given them refuge.
mucalinda 1 year ago
Well the immigration is what is causing the islamization of Europe so it is a valid thing to bring up for a Europeean politician. It is not like muslim immigration is something we are requried to have by some law of nature. I think what many europeen wants is to contain the islamic problem as much as possible to the middleeast and let islam self-destruct. Possibly we in the west can help with knowledge, information and encouragement.
CreativeFreedoms 1 year ago
Oh, thank goodness, I found a light in the darkness...sane people! So glad you've made this video.
sardinetea1 1 year ago
Also.. a survey in UK showed that 1/3 of muslims thought that the british society was immoral and that they should seek to replace it with sharia. There have been similar surveys in other countries like Germany as an example with similar results. So that there are many deeply religious people among the immigrats is clear. I do agree that it is secularism that needs to be promoted though, not "judeo-christian" values as Wilders puts it.
Millrider 1 year ago
Wilders is not eqauating islamic jihad with all "moderate" muslims, Wilders always makes that distinction. Radical problems require radical soultions though and since we can't know which muslim immigratns are radical we need to stop the immigration from muslim countries completely. In Sweden only about 5-10% of immigrants have refugee status so economic opportunity and reltive connection area more common causes for immigration. The segregation that follows promotes radicalization.
Millrider 1 year ago
sadly, hitler was supported by the majority of germans, this gives you an idea about how much can the people be manipulated, and about the necessity of the constitution defending the human rights and invalidating any policies by politicians who are supported by the majority of the people and that violate the human rights.
but of course, we can reduce the chances of such politicians to ever arrive to power through education, the more educated a people the less manipulable it is.
MrMassyle 1 year ago
what is important here is that the states have constitutions that are based on the universal declaration of human rights, and that any project of law or policy that would violate it would be immediately invalidated, even if it is supported by the majority of people.
because otherwise, imagine that the majority of the people agrees with for example executing or imprisoning the homosexuals, this would be a gross violation of human rights, and it must be constitutionally censored.
MrMassyle 1 year ago
Hitler did what he did because he was a dictator and he openly used hate speech, denied many germans their rights and killed many of them, without being stopped by any law.
But with today's constitutional laws against hate speech, against abuse of power, that limit the power of the rulers and that protect the human rights against any attempts at violating them by the rulers, no Hitler can emerge again.
that's why we must defend these laws at all costs.
MrMassyle 1 year ago
personally i don't know much about Wilders, i don't live in the netherlands, but my opinion is that such politicians must be let free to express themselves unless they openly insult a certain category of the population or call for violence against it, in which case the law against hate speech and incitment to violence must be applied.
but a mere political speech against immigration or certain multi-culturalist ideas, or in favor of "traditional values" is just a free speech.
MrMassyle 1 year ago
to sum up :
"all those who do not follow my god will go to hell for eternity, they are sinners and deserve eternal torture" this is free speech by a fundamentalist religious person , it has to be allowed and tolerated, because it's a mere religious opinion.
"we must fight and kill all those who do not believe in the right god until they believe" this is a hate speech and an incitation to violence , it must not be tolerated, and those who say it must be punished.
MrMassyle 1 year ago
This woman with the red cheeks and red hair.....I think you got the point...yes Geert Wilders is anti-immigration......of muslims.....this was exactly his point...stop immigration from Muslim countries because their people do not assimilate into Dutch society.....covering your entire body and face is not Danish.....he also has made the point that a some muslims have been there for decades and can't speak a word of Dutch...he is attempting to preserve his culture for his children and future....
preservwestculture 2 years ago
Yellow-shirt (Reza Moradi).. That was crap - the vid was not anti-immigrant. It was anti-islamic-violence. The immigration problem was shown as a reaction to the muslims saying "Islam will take over the world"...
8DX 2 years ago 3
That guy (back of head) was completely wrong, I watched Fitna and there was not christian propagation... The vid was entirely secular or neutral as far as I can see and concentrated on the violent aspects (or followers) of islam.
8DX 2 years ago 3
8DX I completely agree......Mr. Wilders makes the conclusion that their Dutch society has values which have developed over time which are based on Christianity....he would like to change the constitution to reflect this.....which I think is a wise move
preservwestculture 2 years ago
It doesn't matter what Islam officialy means or what the spirit of the quran is. Islam is what people make of it and people have made it into a monster.
ratje67 2 years ago 2
nonsense .
islam is a lot of different things and views , it's not a "monster"
MrMassyle 2 years ago
You don't understand. I don't care if there's a liberal or peacefull Islam also. Islam is a scource of murder and that's what counts.. a million other muslims praying doesn't make that right. Not ever.
So, I'm not interrested in islam, I don't believe in Islam. I just want to be safe from Islam..or any other religion that tries to effect the lives of others
ratje67 2 years ago
@MrMassyle
And you shouldn't tell me it's nonsense. Tell it to the monsters. And if you can't stop them from being the islam posterboys, consider leaving islam
ratje67 2 years ago
what monsters ? and even if we suppose there are indeed monsters who are muslims , who decided that it is them who represent islam ? islam is represented by muslims , and the vast majority of muslims are not monsters , as far as i know.
MrMassyle 2 years ago
islam is represented by terrorists and extremist too. Who am I to believe? Why doesn't the vast majority stop the few that are full of hate??
As long as Islam is dangerous I can't trust it
ratje67 2 years ago
yes , there are extremists in islam , but why should the non-extremists stop them ? don't you support freedom of opinion ? it seems here that you are demanding religious persecution against extremist muslims ...
MrMassyle 2 years ago
I draw the line where an opinion is forced on others by violence and if it propagades hatred against others.
And I'm saying you're wasting your time telling people like me there's many faces of islam. I don't care about that, they don't bother me. But if you're saying I should respect the opinion of extremists you're part of the problem and another reason to think that Islam is only about protecting their own and disrespects the feelings of infidels who don't like to be cursed and bombed
ratje67 2 years ago
everyone has the right to have an opinion , and nobody has the right to stop people from expressing their views , be they fundamentalist, liberal , moderate , atheist, etc , this is freedom of speech.
as for bombing , well , here it seems that you are talking about criminals , of course criminals should be dealt with by the state and the law, dealing with criminals is the responsibility of the state and not of ordinary citizens.
MrMassyle 2 years ago
There's a difference between having an opinion and being mad. Yes we can stop racists and fascists and so must we stop Muslims fundamentalists who think they are ubermensch too.
Or would you stick up for neonazis the same way you "respect' fundamentalists??
Fundamentalists don't respect points of views of others and so should we make them shut up and put them in a safe place....I know they'd like to do the same with me so fuck them. No respect!
ratje67 2 years ago
we cannot condemn someone just for his opinions , whether racist, nationalist , religious fundamentalist , etc .
we can only condemn him if he incites to violence against others , if he calls for murder against a certain type of people for example .
incitment to crimes and violence is condemnable , but having mere political, religious or philosphical opinions is not.
MrMassyle 2 years ago
And if a person thinks he's moral superior and thinks my life is less worthy than a muslim life. Even without acting on that. That person is wrong and should be corrected, not accepted.
ratje67 2 years ago
And if you think even racists deserve respect as if there's nothing wrong with thinking in races and not human beings.. Than you should be corrected too. But I think you only defend racists to justify defending fundamentalist too.
Fundamentalism was maybe acceptable in the dark ages. But in 2010 it's an obsolete and ridiculous stand.
ratje67 2 years ago
i'm not defending racists or fundamentalists; i'm just defending their right to have opinions freely.
ridiculous or extreme ideolgies can be easily defeated only by education, logic and free speech, and not persecution, only a small bunch of imbeciles will follow them anyway.
it's in fact the fascistic states such as iran that need to supress free speech in order to protect their ideology, but a secular democratic system doesn't need to suppress free speech in order to survive.
MrMassyle 1 year ago
That's interresting because Wilders uses free speech to exagerate numbers and twist facts to make a point. He does have a lot of followers because he uses strong and symplified arguments that appeal to gut feelings people have like fear and mistrust. He stresses the importance of our western/christian identity and polarizes the nation in etnic/religious groups.
ratje67 1 year ago
Using free speech he advocates conspiracy theories and accuses muslim organisations, the political left and the media to have hidden agendas and secret ties to eachother.
He warns for conflict, poverty and loss of control. And stresses the need for (his) strong leadership.
He does not debate. Simply says "I'm right, they're wrong"
As I said, he has a large number of followers, potential voters.
ratje67 1 year ago
He's what you'd call an extremist fundamentalist. And I think he undermines a healthy secular democracy.
And he doesn't need bombs to do it. It's the ideology that incites anger and violence until anger and violence becomes the ideology.
Maybe that's where I have a different view than you have. I see extremism and fundamentalism, religious or nationalistic, as a powerful counterforce to democracy that should be confronted to protect freedom of choice and equal rights for all.
ratje67 1 year ago
well , i agree with you that there are numerous unscrupulous politicians, like sarkozy in France, who target immigrants and minorities, and put all the blame on them for the problems of a country in order to hide their own political failures or to be elected because they promise radical solutions that would bring marvels to a country in crisis, Hitler did the same thing with the jews, he designated them as the scapgoat and promised marvels for germany, and look at the result.
MrMassyle 1 year ago
The problem isn't "political Islam", it is "Islam". Islam *is* a system of politics, it is as illogical to say "political Islam" as it is "political communism"!
AlRasuwl 2 years ago 2
I agree. Especially in light that communism is not a political system but an economic system, just like Islam is not a political system but a religious system.
cryingsoftly 2 years ago
Thankyou for correcting me. In future I shall be more accurate.
Communism is a "political ideology", and Islam is a "system of government which is incompatible with democracy".
AlRasuwl 2 years ago
Islam is no system of government. Islam has certain rules in it to govern,because Mohammed conquered citys and had to handle those in this or that way.
Islam is a beliefsystem.
It is like saying,that Christianity is a system of government. It is not,but it has the "given" rules in it to govern.
And sure both havent anything to do with democracy,because there cant be independence for the people when an old despot is in the sky and rules everything without questioning for all time.
shurednichso 2 years ago
Islam dictates
1: Definition of crimes.
2: Punishment for committing crimes.
3: Amount of tax to be paid.
4: Rules of distributing death inheritance.
5: Rules for marriage, divorce, and adoption.
6: Rules for lending money.
7: Rules of when to go to war, how to deal with prisoners of war, and how to distribute the spoils of war.
Ruling out modern technologies such as the Internet that's just about everything covered to govern a basic society.
System of government.
AlRasuwl 2 years ago
Oh,thank you for smartassing. I didnt know that. Couldnt read my Quran ,you know?
Like i said, the Islam has it in itself and not just in the Quran,also in the Hadises(right translation?).
The reason why it is easy to find such rules in Islam is, because it is written diffrent than the Bible.
But Christfags took their Theokrathical rules for government from their Bible too.
So what is your point?
shurednichso 2 years ago
The video says "Political Islam", there is no such thing, the majority of Islamic belief IS political - i.e. it is a system of government that is incompatible with democracy.
Growth in followers of Islam is an surreptitious decline of democracy.
AlRasuwl 2 years ago
Blah blah blah,you repeat yourself.
Not one monotheistic religion of our time is compatible with democracy. But thought wont stop you from being a chauvinistic fuck.
shurednichso 2 years ago
And I disagree with ANY religious based system of government. I was merely pointing out that this video incorrectly tries to separate Islam and "political Islam" as two different things, when it is in fact one.
The big difference with Islam is that because Muhammad "ruled" for 23 years there is a LOT of governmental material to draw from.
I am not chauvinistic at all, I don't believe in superiority, I just prefer what I have; which is why I live here and not somewhere else.
AlRasuwl 2 years ago
muhammad ruled only during his 9 years in madina.
in makkah he was only a preacher , and this is what the religious part of islam is , a faith , nothing more.
MrMassyle 2 years ago
Then he became a leader, law maker, and military commander.
AlRasuwl 2 years ago
Fitna is not so must anti-fascist and anti-islamofascism or anti-islamic, as it is itself fascist, christiano-fascist and anti-immigrant.
lepolemicist 2 years ago
How dare he???
It is called free speech. You want to live in a western culture deal with it.
ConservativeLogic 2 years ago
Geert Wilders is from my country. And I can tell you this, he's an imbecilic assclown most similar in US terms to someone like Glenn Beck.
If you like him just because he 'speaks out against Islam' (Which he does extremely poorly, and in a similar way to rednecks saying 'We dun wan no muslin's in hear!') Then you don't have a clue about him.
His supporters also are the closest thing we have in the Netherlands TO rednecks.
So I recommend against foreigners getting enamoured with this fool.
Shavarnarak 2 years ago
The members of the council of ex-muslims don't like the idea of only islam being critisized. But I think that this is justified. Our Christian religious beliefs, at least in most European parts, are already secularised. Further, only muslims kill others because they don't SPEAK in accordance to their beliefs and, - things must be called by their name, they do this with reference to the kuran and NOT in contrary to that, as often mistakenly claimed.
DreamFreedom1 2 years ago
It's about time we get the cane out of the cupboard and start using on religious extremists in the UK.
Anyone making anti-western comments like ''slay those who insult Islam'' should be arrested and deported to their country of origin even if they are a British citizen.
The bottom line is, if you don't like western values then don't live in a western country. Go and live in an Islamic country.
Zed1967 2 years ago 32
well ...
sir , even if I do NOT agree with your "shipping" statement , I do have to agree with you on the simple notion that , IF people feel so bad living IN a Western Society WHY are they here ?
And the answer is quite obvious , or not ... because in the WEST there is something like FREE speech ... where as in muslim countrys the simple Idea of FREE Speech is unthinkable !
Do not get me wrong , the people living there would love to have free speech , but not the Regimes who govern them !
GermanStraight1 2 years ago
@Zed1967 They are to coward to live in Islamic Country... They know that in western Country they can pretty much say anything, witch wouldn't be the case in Islamic country...
EckoStream 1 year ago
@Zed1967 that is despicable just because someone doesnt agree with you does not mean that you can take their rights away i make what some people would call antiwestern comments all the time. guess what i am a legal citizen of the US and my family is connected to royalty in the UK do you think that just because i criticizes what people call the west i should be deported to the UK or should they follow my family further back maybe to where we all came from.that's Africa for all you bible thumpers.
MobileThinker 1 year ago
@MobileThinker
People who blow themselves up in public places killing and maiming in the name of their imaginary sky daddy don't deserve ''rights''.
Zed1967 1 year ago 4
@Zed1967 the same could be said for every christian who has ever lived. by being a christian, they openly support the crusades and inquisition. does that mean they don't deserve rights? EVERYBODY deserves rights. if someone violates someone else's rights, that is the only time it is okay to remove rights. you cannot take rights away from a whole group because of a few. or even because of the majority. if someone is not directly involved, then they deserve all the rights you enjoy.
MobileThinker 1 year ago
@MobileThinker
Apart from the odd fruit cake that feels justified to shoot doctors because they offer pregnancy terminations I don't see many Christians killing in the name of Jesus, most of them are benign.
When someone feels justified to kill and maim indiscriminately for the sake of an imaginary sky daddy then they have no rights in my opinion and the religion that they are connected to which doesn't condemn such actions deserves no rights either.
Zed1967 1 year ago 4
@Zed1967
You're right. They should all save up for helicopters with night vision and smart bombs.
Suicide bombing is so.. well... so primitive.
People who kill for ANY reason are a bunch of bastards, no matter what book or flag you're holding.
Plopkap 10 months ago
@Zed1967 As a muslim myself, I cannot agree more.
Just as I get rabidly angry when I read about the atrocities committed by the british during their rule of my country, I get even more pissed when I see those cunts show absolutely no respect for the respective countries they move to. Why can't they f'in stay in their precious homelands if they hate their new homes so much...
commenter311 11 months ago
@commenter311 Oh, aren't you that same guy Coughlan made a video about?
You are a hilarious little douche.
SniperWalrus 11 months ago
@Zed1967 I have a question, are you english?
If so, you should be deported back to germany where the english came from and leave brittan for the Celtics!!!!
wybo2 5 months ago
@wybo2
You can't even spell English or Germany with a capital letter or Britain (brittan) what so ever so fuck you!
Zed1967 5 months ago
@Zed1967 i am Muslim and i agree with you.
nezarazo 3 months ago
It's not a muslim problem, it's a religious problem.
jimius 2 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Get rid of foreigners!
adamamida 2 years ago
You're a foreigner to me. Shoot yourself!
BalthazzarCH 2 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Eat a dick you whore
adamamida 2 years ago
i will if you shoot yourself first. deal?
BalthazzarCH 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
You're a big fat nigger cunt with puss and blood.
adamamida 2 years ago
Comment removed
BalthazzarCH 2 years ago
you must live in a place with very thin air, do you?
BalthazzarCH 2 years ago
In secular societies, ALL religions are criticised. Why should Islam be immuned to that? Because they threaten violence? All the MORE reason to criticise.
Hereticbooks 2 years ago 52
When this gentleman says "religion should play no part in public life" I couldn't agree more
ClearVista 2 years ago 7
You know what? you're right Nothing equals Nothing with you so peace.Live long and prosper!
soulsistasolja 2 years ago
not knowing ehnt it descended and why not having much backround but "following2 people like this Geert character for the sake of attacking a whole religion.Question is where are you going with your attempts o sound well read on Islam???
soulsistasolja 2 years ago
i dont care what you'd prefer i comment,and what is groundless is the above comment and its pointless attempt otmake sense of one word.
Whatever in reference to the irrelevance of your attempt to quote a surah(and it was just a verse you quoted) that you have little knowledge on,
soulsistasolja 2 years ago
Either way,your still saying what i think your saying so its whatever on the details.
Tell me if you were so saddened to find what you found then why what do you intend to do with those "findings" what do aim to achieve..exposing islam???
soulsistasolja 2 years ago
"kill them wherever you find them unless there is a chance they will convert" what are yo talking about more like.If you have taken time out to research aboput Islam its obvious yo spent much of your time in vain because your clearly biased,and a few verses will make you non the less intellegient than the negt anti islamic Bigot!
soulsistasolja 2 years ago
Nope its defidently you who misread,and try putting it in context before taking snippets and putting a "wilder" spin on it!
soulsistasolja 2 years ago
Geert no doubt took his tactics of demonising a religious groups and using media as a tool for propaganda as he lived his early life in germany during the genecide of the Jews.
soulsistasolja 2 years ago
the film may have been a bit sensationalist but it raised some serious issues that needs to enter into the normal discourse. Do we (the west) want to invite large numbers of people into our society when they have very different attitudes to social freedom and the place of religion. Are we sacrificing our freedoms, hard won, in the name of multiculturalism? Only recently I have started to think that I am uneasy with the immigration of large numbers of muslims as they never seem to assimilate
coldwarkid007 2 years ago
Nevr sem to assimilat? what a load of rubbish,please difine assimilation as you think it,just because i dont drink,and reveal my body does this threaten you hard fought for freedomn,does it threaten democracy.Multiculturism is a comoplete other issue,you seem to be effected by areas of race as well as religion,do these new found ideals of yours not threaten liberal democracy themselves.
soulsistasolja 2 years ago
lol. nuff said. noob
calumlittle 2 years ago
Then I'm sorry to tell you you need to go back to school to learn reading again, or are you just biased while you read, like wilders? are you wilders? hahah
roclan 2 years ago
in the book the baby bunny it says the word death, the book is full of evil and its all about death! (bullshitting like you are)
Read whole At-Taubah and then come and tell us what it really says. ;)
roclan 2 years ago
Yeah, it's a dismal film. However, as over 50% of 'Muslims' in the UK believe that the penalty for apostasy should be death, it is clear that these people have not assimilated any Western values. The film was anti MUSLIM immigration, not anti immigration. There is a big difference.
Gorteenminogue 2 years ago 2
If someone chooses not to believe, that's everyones own choise. Nobody (except parents) got anything to say about how another person should live.
Wilders used to have a girlfriend which he loved with all his heart, he was so over the top of her. But eventually the relation broke up for a muslim guy, the girl liked him more (is wilders even attractive?). And since then he hates muslims, and this movie is one of his psychological revenge tacts. Nothing more than that.
roclan 2 years ago
And to react on myself. I think if people can't think for themselfs, and watch this movie, don't search for information if he is really on the right end and start hating muslims... I think those people are plain dumb to be honest, it's good to use your free and intellectual mind to research this very well before you start being like a parrot of wilders.
I think my point is made.
Respect to everyone, religion or not. Let eachother believe and live as they wish.
roclan 2 years ago
But you are forgetting there are so many hadith, and a hadith is nothing more than an interpetation of the Qur'an.. It doesn't neceserraly have to be on the right end, and about all sorts of moslims have different hadith. So which one am I for example upholding?(If I am even upholding any Hadith and not making my own by reading the Qur'an myself)
There are only beautiful guidelines in the Qur'an, not one untruth, not one damaging, conflicting, or in your words nasty things.
roclan 2 years ago
it is not ok..but as a last resort i guess it is ok!!
hurahman 2 years ago
you dont understand how painfull it is when your family member is killed in front of your eyes when ther person killed him was using religion...its not so easy to forgive..
hurahman 2 years ago
im sorry i disagree...if you are being persecuted then you have the right to fight back...if people wanna use religion to start shit with the muslims then were gonna use religion to fight back..the islamic world plays by the rule it is them that start the shit...!!
hurahman 2 years ago
did you know, did you know, did you know.......you were AngryLittleGirls 666th subscriber.
WeWereHereBefore 2 years ago
I didn't know, I didn't know, I didn't know that Angrylittlegirl was his 666th subscriber.
AtheistsCensoredVFX 2 years ago
Islam says Muslims cannot condemn other Muslims. If some Muslims are killing non-Muslims then others Muslims are obligated to let it happen.
If you are Muslim you are condemned to death for leaving.
Islam is a plague. If you disagree then stand up, change the Quran, and fight the people blowing others up. Take responsibility for your religion instead of being an apologist.
SpazzyMcGee1336 2 years ago 3
The Koran wont be changed.
The scriptures of the jews are changed and now if you read it, it says horrible things in some parts, for example to kill everyone with different religions. So does the bible.
In the Koran it says to respect other religions, from start to end, if you don't believe me read it for yourself instead of believing kafirs.
roclan 2 years ago
"In the Koran it says to respect other religions, from start to end, if you don't believe me read it for yourself instead of believing kafirs."
AHAHA!
Sura (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Is that the respect you refer to
byteresistor 2 years ago 3
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day"
Allah = God
Jews and Christians and Sabaths believe in the last day.
There you go :)
roclan 2 years ago
A lot of other religions don't. And besides Jews and Christians aren't safe either: "nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book"
byteresistor 2 years ago
And I do fight christians and jews indeed, but with words :) It does not say hurt nor kill.. we are not allowed to kill, only out of self defense. The Koran is huge byteresistor, you really don't have to be afraid of us. Peace and love is what we strive for.
roclan 2 years ago
dude the yahoodis(jews) use the old testament to do what there doing to the palestianians..fuck them..dont condem ANY muslim..
hurahman 2 years ago
listen very carefully to 2:57 to 3:01
I thought he was an ex-Muslim!? He says, "he has no concern about Islam at all...his agenda does not coincide with us at all."
This is a propaganda production.
Aegialeus 2 years ago
...at least that part of the clip didn't sound very ex-Muslim to me.
Aegialeus 2 years ago
he was speaking about the agenda of the Ex-Muslim council, he was saying their group does not have the same goal as this films creator did. They do not desire a denial of Islam to Europe just want a secular state where it does not have control.
powerlink485 2 years ago
Self pittying
HowToLiveWithNoGods 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Samuel 15:3
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy [a] everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.
yam1yam2 2 years ago
Everthing is fine BUT this mans face, up to 4:28 er so, can't be seen. Yeah, Islam is as safe as baby burp-up.
- Trojan horse is a concept not an actual thing, now.
The small film ought be redone with the current UN resolution that threatens my critizising a religion that murders non-believers every friday.
8:20- it does cost more to wreak havic accross the pond.
humanman65 2 years ago
islam is evil and should be banned world wide.
there is no peace in islam as long as the word "submission" is used.
cheers
rickru1 2 years ago
islam is evil and should be banned world wide.
there is no peace in islam as long as the word "submission" is used.
cheers
rickru1 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
@-)--
click on my name for the u r l to see how we won James Randi's Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge...
@-)--
nostradamus2001 2 years ago
If he's Dutch... He's secularist. You can't make comparisons with Islamic theocrats.
PorkScratchins101 2 years ago
Islam, much like every other religion, is unable to handle criticism for the simple reason that even a curious child can peel back the layers of nonsense and hilarious epistemology to reveal, naked, frightened idiots.
The only defence you have for the indefensible is censorship.
MRSstraightA 2 years ago 6
If the Muslims and "muslims" fleeing Political Islam are so offended by Geert, they shouldn't be. Instead, they should be joining him and rallying with him. Any intelligent person should know who he targeted with Fitna. If the non-extremist muslims and mideasterners are really serious about ending and leaving behind this utter raping of their people, they need to speak up against it and not Geert who intended to reveal it.
Anti-immigration... idiots have their heads up their asses.
Deioth 2 years ago
Head up their asses, Deloth?
Even ex-muslims twist what Wilders has to say, littleharry?
Accept it then from someone who actually lives in NL reads the papers, & watches the interviews:
"Git" (as O'Reiley correctly named him) Wilders is an populist xenophobe who has found electoral success on a militant anti-immigration platform with muslims playing satan.
Had he lived in the US, he would have targeted the Mexians & perhaps all Catholics.
The viewers' analyses in this video are correct.
8blkcat 2 years ago
I can't say much about Geert as I've merely heresay about how much of a douche he apparently is. That said, as an American looking in, ESPECIALLY after the anti-blasphemy proposition in the UN, I feel more than inclined to believe what Geert is saying. It's not as if Mexicans are trying to rob America of free speech, threaten us with violence and murder if we call them on their BS, or are teaching people to hate Jews, so that's not a very convincing analogy. Yet some(many?) Muslims do all this.
Deioth 2 years ago
And for the record, O'Reily is about as competent a news caster as a mute man is an oratory. What O'Reily says needs to be taken with a 10 ton grain of salt because his views and distorted perception is out of touch with America at large, let alone something across the Atlantic.
Deioth 2 years ago
amazing how even ex-muslims can twist what Geert is trying to say.
mylittleharry 2 years ago
mm, I am a bit disappointed that they only latched on to the "anti-immigration"aspect and had nothing positive to say about how he is raising awareness of how violence is a serious problem in Islam and encouraged by parts of the Koran. I don;t really know -- he may be too right-wing -- but it seems over optimistic to believe that a large proprtion the people immigrating to his small country from Islamic countries will be secularist freedom fighters
orlando098 2 years ago
Also I would have hoped these people would have been open-minded enough to see that a person doesn;t necessarilyt have to be a rabid racist to be a bit concerned about a very rapid influx of people of a different culture to a small country known for its tolerant western values. It almost seems like these people have decided together what their party line witll be on this and they will say nothing positive about the film. Perhaps they are afraid to
orlando098 2 years ago
as it is they are already quite brave to advertise themselves as ex-muslims -- that is worthy of death as apostates under Islamic law
orlando098 2 years ago
its a clear fact that the moderated people of ANY religion is the powerbase for the radical elements. the mentioning of the moderate people in the movie is irrelevant! The sole reason is that the moderates WILL DO NOTHING to stop their own religion. so again, objective evidence and recapping videos recorded BY terrorists and radical elements is NOT rasist. statistic evidence is not anti imigration either, if a foreign influence becomes a danger, then you MUST consider it.
prowled 2 years ago 3
Most of those European leaders who condemn Fitna have admitted that they had not even seen it.
Other than that, why are we spending all this time looking at the back of a mans head, who is spouting absurdities from the front. I want to examine his face to determine the extent of his lies...
duhswami 2 years ago
we are affraid of arabs, becouse most of them are muslims, and we are afftaid of islamists.
generalisations always hurt people that arent like the majority, and belive me, noone will be affraid of you if you show them you are pro human rights.
dont blame us that we are anti imigration, when those imigrants dont want to fit into our society.
but all the best luck to everyone brave enough to be secular in islamic countries.
logoth80 2 years ago 2
It's important to separate religious fervour from ethnic background, but, hell, does the movie really need to explain this?..
SexyMelon 2 years ago
Immmigration and changing the very social structure of the a country are separate. In < 50 years, aboriginal Europeans will be a minority there. Shall a country change into what those new immigrants to that country decide it should be? Political Islamization isn't a "bogey-man", or myth. As the Islamic minority grows as % relative to indiginous populations, so does the political violence committed by them. Once the % reaches 35-40% things get very ugly. Lebanon is an example of Islamization.
wideawake123 2 years ago
Obviously the propagation of Islam has a correlation to immigration from islamic countries. Your apparent denial of this seems somewhat absurd. Of course not all Arabs, Persians, etc are muslim; but most are.
I also believe that Wilders is a secularist as he often espouses humanist values.
In sum, this film is more biased than Wilders'!
Ontologistics 2 years ago
I think this response to the film is very unfair on Geert Wilders. He often makes the distinction between muslims (as people) and Islam (as an ideology); he is against the latter only - this is clear. But you think not.
Ontologistics 2 years ago
MY STORY
my doubts regarding Islam commenced at the tender age of 14 when i was but a lad. these doubts emanated from Islam's approval of eating animal meat and my sexuality, which i was beginning to explore. a man should be allowed to love whoever he wants, man, woman, or animal. well now i am free from islam i can do what i want. why should i answer to anyone, even british law, which is man made. from this day forth, no animal shall be free from my lustings. thank you council of ex-muslims.
xingyimaster1987 2 years ago
Wow, does it really need to be said?
Nations, and other large groups (ie, muslims), are not evil. There are evil individuals, and they can get into positions of power, but all the people are just like you and me.
95% of them would help you in times of need or if you were being attacked.
4% of them would be unable or unwilling to be involved.
1% of them are psychopaths who might go out of their way to do you harm. All societies suffer these percentages. imho
Elvisdogg 2 years ago
Wilders is Zionazi thug.
lonovik 2 years ago
I think Mr Wilders made excellent points in Fitna - these people seem to be missing them. I do wish that he had given more attention to my above points, however, it's only a few minutes long, so I think he did well with the time allotted.
He is ALSO entitled to his opinion, whether people agree with him or not.
I personally DO agree with him and am at a loss that these interviewers seem to have missed what the film was trying to convey.
mzjazz37 2 years ago
The only mentions immigration at the very end, and only to highlight the fact that Europe is only going to face more pressure from Islam in the future. To say that Fitna is critical of immigration and not Islam is a gross distortion. The responses to the film that are portrayed in this video are shameful. The people interviewed seem to have very poor comprehension skills, and it almost makes me question if they were strongly biased. This video promotes misinformation about an important film.
Benjman80 2 years ago 2
I really have to wonder what film these people watched. Aside from the film's warnings about violence in Islam, the main criticism was of European politician's blatant cowardice in the face of the political Islamic movement. His criticism is warranted as is his deep concern. Everyone should be concerned when freedom of speech is attacked on such a large scale. The descriptions of Wilder's film from the people interviewed are distortions that ignore the larger issue.
Benjman80 2 years ago
Islam go home from Iran!!
zarthoshti 2 years ago
The messages SHOULD be - the extremism is being taught to Muslim children in the madrassas and to people in Mosques in both Britain and in the US; AND - that western governments need to stop capitulating to Islamic lifestyles in western cultures.
People are free to live any lifestyle as long as it doesn't interfere with cultural norms and doesn't break laws. Islam is being given special treatment and it should NOT be.
Those SHOULD be the points of any protest.
mzjazz37 2 years ago
You are right, but keep in mind that the people interviewed in this video do a piss poor job in evaluating Wilder's film. Wilder's film addresses violence in Islam, but his main point is the capitulation of European politicians to Islamic demands. He is specifically focused on the cowardice of his colleagues and he is correct to call them into question when they are willing to throw away free speech. The interviewees here all seem to have an obvious bias, willfully distorting the truth.
Benjman80 2 years ago
Extremists no matter what they are preaching whether it be something religion or even conservation of the planet, do and say things which are outside what the majority of people believe in and or follow. However, the problem is that there will always be people who are easily controlled/swayed who will fight for a cause which to us is nonsensical.
We cannot however, base our opinion of a religion/cause based on the views of the extremists!!
sk9723 3 years ago
The extremists are, unfortunately, the ones who do not cherry pick their religious texts. While the moderates retain the "good stuff" based on their own moral compass, religious fundamentalists derive their morals completely from it. Read Bin Laden's "Letter to America". In it, he uses passages of the Quran to justify, very logically, his agenda against America. Can you prove him wrong from *within the context of the Quran*? Its impossible. His arguments are watertight from within core Islam.
geodesicks 2 years ago 3
Within core islam is where the argument can be made. Prove the Koran as a system of domination and not a religion then Bin Laden will write another letter to America saying he's sorry for the earlier tripe. Can I get Bin Laden's number? He and I are gonna have a little chat. I'll let him know what's up.
kaduisaui 2 years ago
What's 'MCB' mean?
mmartini50 3 years ago
Muslim Council Of Britain. A slimy Islamic umbrella organisation. They represent the worst as well as, well, I guess the main stream as well.
TooDrunkToCare808 3 years ago 2
This is fucking stupid. The movie is about the world domination at all cost agenda shown in some parts of the Quaran and IMO it could just as well have been made by militant Muslims apart from the end where he suggest tearing the pages from the Quaran.
The people in this video seem to be the moderates and they are the real problem. Philosophy & religion is supposed to be extreme and they should be proud of it. Muslims should be offended by these sort of people, but not Geert Wilders.
Reproductivist 3 years ago
Yeah, you showed your hand, mate, when you said moderates are the real problem.
We should be lined up against a wall and f*cking shot!
But it's us moderates, muslim and western, not you hysterical fearmongerers, that'll deal with this situation.
"Martha! Git me gun! I see anutha muzzie climbin' the fence...!"
mmartini50 3 years ago
something doesnt add up here...
pikechris1 3 years ago
Could you elaborate?
PiroNiro 3 years ago
"TCEM state that Fitna is more anti-immigrant than anti-Islam, in that it labels all immigrants coming from the Middle-East as being the source of the problem."
you say it yourself in your info box, Piro... yet i dont know how most of the interviewees come to the conclusions they present here. another point would be, if those immigrants are escapees from oppression, why are they (a specific but growing group) trying to impose those same socio-political conditions they tried to escape from?
pikechris1 3 years ago
"you say it yourself in your info box, Piro... yet i dont know how most of the interviewees come to the conclusions they present here."
To answer that, I think you'd have to see it from the perspective of the COEM. If I'm not mistaken, most of them come from "Islamic nations. So when Wilders makes the link between growing #'s of Muslim immigrants and terrorist acts, it's implying that all immigrants breed terrorism. That's my understanding.
PiroNiro 3 years ago
i understand this point, Piro, yet its not the only possible explanation and i would "bet", not even the intended one. there are surely "stories of success" just like those we see discussing here. yet the statistics are almost "threatening". how many britains muslims are longing for sharia? what about the parallel turkish society in germany? in their own words; demanding, yet refusing to show respect...
pikechris1 3 years ago
"another point would be, if those immigrants are escapees from oppression, why are they (a specific but growing group) trying to impose those same socio-political conditions they tried to escape from?"
You use "they" as if "they" are a homogeneous group. I'm sure some are but some aren't. Again, I'm guessing many COEM members would have certainly have come from Islamic nations, but I'd aren't trying to impose Sharia law.
PiroNiro 3 years ago
sure. i dont know who "they" are in person (actually i do know some personally), however, im relating here to statistics. sounds almost worn out, yet if theres a growing, demanding community, one knows where to look for the trouble makers.
e.g.; wilders never proposed deportations of muslims because they were muslims. he proposed deportations of criminals with double or foreign citizenship.
pikechris1 3 years ago
those here in the interview are integrated and they are even more liberal than myself. yet they fail to address specific key issues like the compartmentalizing of the immigrant muslim societies. if those parallel societies are their (islämic in general) goal, they will simply take us over. this will likely end up badly even for those "integrated" ones.
pikechris1 3 years ago
i dont care about my "white genes", Piro, what i do care about is our liberal society. and im afraid if we want to protect it from destruction we will have to push some buttons we normally consider inappropriate.
pikechris1 3 years ago
Well sorry, but I have had more than enough of mass immigration.
TooDrunkToCare808 3 years ago
How does the political islam get into Europe? By immigration from islamic countries. How do you stop the political islam in Europe? By stopping the immigration from islamic countries.
Why shoud Europe allow political islam to grow in Europe? It's not Europes responsibility to solve problems of political islam.
huusis 3 years ago 3
The bottom line is that muslims can not stand any form of criticism on their barbaric religion. The whole muslim world gets mad when Israel invades the Gaza strip, yet when the Islamic Janjahweed militias kill thousands of innocent civilians in Darfur, you don't hear them. This is typical muslim behavior - obsessed with the western world and jews in particular, and totally incapable of self-critique. It's always someone else's fault.
DeusMerdaeEst 3 years ago 3
The Dutch govt also made a HUGE mistake prosecuting him for hate speech. They have ironically demonstrated they are against freedom of speech, and, while Wilders is undoubtedly against non white immigration, the film doesn't explicitly urge people to take up arms against muslims. The Dutch govt'll just make a martyr of him - ridiculous.
mmartini50 3 years ago
"against non white immigration"
Can you back that up, because I've seen a few of your other comments and I think you might be trying to put a sneaky one in there?
TooDrunkToCare808 3 years ago
Sure. This is from Wilder's Dec 2008 speech in Israel:
"More than forty years ago a British politician gave a famous speech. He stated that, looking into the future, he saw rivers of blood as a result of the uncontrolled influx of immigrants. Enoch Powells speech was the starting point of a debate on mass immigration in Europe.
Looking back, I share Enoch Powells alarmist views on mass immigration"
mmartini50 3 years ago 2
Well I know the number of criminals from immigrant groups is "disproportionate" all across Europe. Over half the people in British prisons are coloured now, according to one MP on the TV. We don't have that many coloured people in Britain and we used to have a lot less...
TooDrunkToCare808 3 years ago
Then 7/7, Madrid, suicide murderers, the extremists, the Islam that murders oppostion apostates, sorry executes... He can say it if he likes. He's quoting Churchill too. Of course Britain still had colonies when he said those things, but its Churchill!
TooDrunkToCare808 3 years ago
They're not "coloured". "Coloured" can mean anything. You're "coloured", so am I. They're black or asian. Get with the programme, dude!
mmartini50 3 years ago
Comment removed
TooDrunkToCare808 3 years ago
In answer to your assertion that over half the British people in prison are "coloured"...
In 2001, the latest year I can get figures for, 85% of the British population were classified 'white British'. Meaning 15% of UK residents were NOT WHITE BRITISH.
Yet in 2008, 7 years later, 19% of the prison population were from a minority ethnic (ie non white) group.
Hardly 50%. Who was this tool of an MP?
Oh but wait, maybe some of those 'white British' were really 'coloured', after all.
mmartini50 3 years ago
...Well there you go I've been lied to by a politician! Yes it looks like its been around 20 percent for a few years.
Sounded like a disaster! A nineteen eighties Neo Nazis propaganda come true. I was even feeling sorry for them. And he was wrong about 7% of the population being "coloured" to by the looks of it. Its higher more like 15%.
It was a conservative MP I think... Where did you get 2008 from?
TooDrunkToCare808 3 years ago
I googled 'UK prison population ethnicity 2008' and chose the first result. It's a House of Commons publication, (on page 9).
mmartini50 3 years ago