Don't mix up rabbinical Minhag (customs) with God's holy instructions. I believe the reason why He did not define all the commandments (how to keep them) is to check our hearts to see if we will try, as we do the same with our children knowing that they will stumble and with love we correct.
@paulgem123 - Could it also be to give some indeviduality in how to keep them? For instance, if I am to were tzitziot, do i really HAVE to wear a blooming tea towel on my head? I'm not convinced and I really hope not but am unsure.
@sparkshot The head covering is not required by Torah. I don't wear it. I also struggled with this. The tzitziot I do and I tuck them in as I feel it is boastful to wear them out. I believe it is correct the He wants us to be individuals and we don't have to look like others for God to see our hearts.
@paulgem123 Didn't Y'shua have a go at the men becasue they wore them stupidly large just to make a pride show of it? Y'shua would have worn them outside otherwise how would that woman be able to grab the wing/hem of his garment and be healed?
@sparkshot I think the point is that we know we should not be so worried about what men try to put on us but reason it out in our own heart with the Torah as our guide and look to what Y'shua said about it. If Y'shua didn't put too much emphasis on it then we can rest from the burdens that men create. Because this is what gets us all messed up in the head. We can walk tall knowing that the heart of Torah is Love. Love God and Love man as yourself.
@paulgem123 - Yeah but, this isn't about man burdening us, this is about correct interpretation thus equating to obediance thus not sinning. Isn't about men etc. Sabath another great example etc, what's right or wrong to one person might be different to another, so who's right? Torah too vauge. Could be sinning, might not be, goes for many issues too but I find it all too stressfull. Need to understand what's permissable with the other stuff that we should wear cus unclear.
@paulgem123 - tallits I'm sure are an acceptable way of wearing tzitziot but it doesn't actually say "make a square cloth to attatch them too", just says either 4 corners, borders, quarters or (insert translation favorite here), maybie it could be 4 extremities in the sence, on at end of each sleve and one hanging off your trouser/pant legs by your boots. Or even wrapped as a band tassel rather than a dangelling tassell??
@sparkshot I think the reason the Tallit katan is worn is because it represents the four corners of of the tabernacle and we are the Temple. This seams to make sense to me. I know others even Messianics that say the Tzitzits are to be worn out at all times. I disagree. Because Y'shua made a point about this in Matt 23:4-7.
@paulgem123 - I think tzitziot probably should be worn on outside cus it says that you "look at them and remember commands", not nessasaraly 'feel' them diggin in your groin! Also to that it's a witness to others and can create witnessing opportunities. I don't currently wear them cus unsure how and what choices I have and I need to follow the commands it's supposed to remind me of better 1st otherwise I'm hypocrit and false probably.
@paulgem123 , so that would be 4 extremities, one for each limb. One for each step or action you make in life. Teffilin is something else I struggle to really grasp, again it doesn't say, "make a leather box and insert scripture X into it", many psalms talk of binding commands to your heart and neck, does that mean we are to cut open a hole in my chest and tie a band around my heart? Of course not, so for consistancy how could the teffilin be a DEFINITE no argument perfect understanding?
@paulgem123 - I looked on Wikipedia and apparently the Karaites see it as mainly metaphorical for the tefillin. They have tzitziot but doesn't say weather they wear them on tallit or not. See, I often wander if it's ok to wear on belt loops ut many think thats incorrect thus sin. Goodness sake. I wish the answers we just clear cut, I often think this agro is more trouble than it's worth, yet that'd be speaking against God I guess.
@sparkshot This is why I don't worry to much about it. I have know many who have worn them on the belt. Either way I'm not going to police it. If I wanted to go around busting people for this or that I would be a police officer. LOL
To walk as Y'shua walked is to be free to reason with the commandments that were given. We are not to be legalistic and put a big burden on people. We are to understand peoples stages of their own walk. As Paul puts it walk out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
@paulgem123 - Is there scriptural proof/reasoning for this premise? To me it makes sence to interpret the commands your own way as long as your being honest, but is this acceptable because it says for prophecy there is no private interpretation, so what about the commands? (even though with both all we can do is understnad what we think it means, people say, "the holy spirit revealed THIS to me" but they/we still conflict so that's hard to believe sometimes!
@sparkshot Is there scriptural proof/reasoning for this premise? Acts 15:20 was the minimum requirements for a Gentile believer to start with. When I first started in this walk they gave me a little bit here and a little bit there as I hungered for more they would give me more. The weekly parasha (torah reading also breaks down the Tanakh into small portions to study. Every seven years the children of Israel all came to hear the Torah reading. It is a cycle that never stops.
@paulgem123 - Oh yeah, I fogot about acts, the incremental learning thingy. Could you point me towards a torah portion video thing you recccomend? I haven't bothered with it before but I might, I'm on UK time though so I don't know if that will make a difference.
@sparkshot lionlamb(dot)net live Erev Shabbat service Friday at 7:30 pm CT or if you can't figure out what time this is in your time they have the audio on previous broadcasts. also torahportions(dot)org (printed version) wisdomintorah(dot)com (members blog-Torah portions) pre-recorded so you can watch all the previous Torah portions.
@sparkshot Sometime we take to much to soon. This is why it is good to learn basics. In all we have to remember to be patient with others and ourselves.
Don't mix up rabbinical Minhag (customs) with God's holy instructions. I believe the reason why He did not define all the commandments (how to keep them) is to check our hearts to see if we will try, as we do the same with our children knowing that they will stumble and with love we correct.
paulgem123 1 month ago
@paulgem123 - Could it also be to give some indeviduality in how to keep them? For instance, if I am to were tzitziot, do i really HAVE to wear a blooming tea towel on my head? I'm not convinced and I really hope not but am unsure.
sparkshot 1 month ago
@sparkshot The head covering is not required by Torah. I don't wear it. I also struggled with this. The tzitziot I do and I tuck them in as I feel it is boastful to wear them out. I believe it is correct the He wants us to be individuals and we don't have to look like others for God to see our hearts.
paulgem123 1 month ago
@paulgem123 Didn't Y'shua have a go at the men becasue they wore them stupidly large just to make a pride show of it? Y'shua would have worn them outside otherwise how would that woman be able to grab the wing/hem of his garment and be healed?
sparkshot 1 month ago
@sparkshot I think the point is that we know we should not be so worried about what men try to put on us but reason it out in our own heart with the Torah as our guide and look to what Y'shua said about it. If Y'shua didn't put too much emphasis on it then we can rest from the burdens that men create. Because this is what gets us all messed up in the head. We can walk tall knowing that the heart of Torah is Love. Love God and Love man as yourself.
paulgem123 1 month ago
@paulgem123 - Yeah but, this isn't about man burdening us, this is about correct interpretation thus equating to obediance thus not sinning. Isn't about men etc. Sabath another great example etc, what's right or wrong to one person might be different to another, so who's right? Torah too vauge. Could be sinning, might not be, goes for many issues too but I find it all too stressfull. Need to understand what's permissable with the other stuff that we should wear cus unclear.
sparkshot 1 month ago
@paulgem123 - tallits I'm sure are an acceptable way of wearing tzitziot but it doesn't actually say "make a square cloth to attatch them too", just says either 4 corners, borders, quarters or (insert translation favorite here), maybie it could be 4 extremities in the sence, on at end of each sleve and one hanging off your trouser/pant legs by your boots. Or even wrapped as a band tassel rather than a dangelling tassell??
sparkshot 1 month ago
@sparkshot I think the reason the Tallit katan is worn is because it represents the four corners of of the tabernacle and we are the Temple. This seams to make sense to me. I know others even Messianics that say the Tzitzits are to be worn out at all times. I disagree. Because Y'shua made a point about this in Matt 23:4-7.
paulgem123 1 month ago
@paulgem123 - I think tzitziot probably should be worn on outside cus it says that you "look at them and remember commands", not nessasaraly 'feel' them diggin in your groin! Also to that it's a witness to others and can create witnessing opportunities. I don't currently wear them cus unsure how and what choices I have and I need to follow the commands it's supposed to remind me of better 1st otherwise I'm hypocrit and false probably.
sparkshot 1 month ago
@paulgem123 , so that would be 4 extremities, one for each limb. One for each step or action you make in life. Teffilin is something else I struggle to really grasp, again it doesn't say, "make a leather box and insert scripture X into it", many psalms talk of binding commands to your heart and neck, does that mean we are to cut open a hole in my chest and tie a band around my heart? Of course not, so for consistancy how could the teffilin be a DEFINITE no argument perfect understanding?
sparkshot 1 month ago
@sparkshot The Tefilin and the arm wrap is a literal way to look at it. It would be interesting to know if Karaite Jews wear them and why or why not.
paulgem123 1 month ago
@paulgem123 - I looked on Wikipedia and apparently the Karaites see it as mainly metaphorical for the tefillin. They have tzitziot but doesn't say weather they wear them on tallit or not. See, I often wander if it's ok to wear on belt loops ut many think thats incorrect thus sin. Goodness sake. I wish the answers we just clear cut, I often think this agro is more trouble than it's worth, yet that'd be speaking against God I guess.
sparkshot 1 month ago
@sparkshot This is why I don't worry to much about it. I have know many who have worn them on the belt. Either way I'm not going to police it. If I wanted to go around busting people for this or that I would be a police officer. LOL
paulgem123 1 month ago
To walk as Y'shua walked is to be free to reason with the commandments that were given. We are not to be legalistic and put a big burden on people. We are to understand peoples stages of their own walk. As Paul puts it walk out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
paulgem123 1 month ago
@paulgem123 - Is there scriptural proof/reasoning for this premise? To me it makes sence to interpret the commands your own way as long as your being honest, but is this acceptable because it says for prophecy there is no private interpretation, so what about the commands? (even though with both all we can do is understnad what we think it means, people say, "the holy spirit revealed THIS to me" but they/we still conflict so that's hard to believe sometimes!
sparkshot 1 month ago
@sparkshot Is there scriptural proof/reasoning for this premise? Acts 15:20 was the minimum requirements for a Gentile believer to start with. When I first started in this walk they gave me a little bit here and a little bit there as I hungered for more they would give me more. The weekly parasha (torah reading also breaks down the Tanakh into small portions to study. Every seven years the children of Israel all came to hear the Torah reading. It is a cycle that never stops.
paulgem123 1 month ago
@paulgem123 - Oh yeah, I fogot about acts, the incremental learning thingy. Could you point me towards a torah portion video thing you recccomend? I haven't bothered with it before but I might, I'm on UK time though so I don't know if that will make a difference.
sparkshot 1 month ago
@sparkshot lionlamb(dot)net live Erev Shabbat service Friday at 7:30 pm CT or if you can't figure out what time this is in your time they have the audio on previous broadcasts. also torahportions(dot)org (printed version) wisdomintorah(dot)com (members blog-Torah portions) pre-recorded so you can watch all the previous Torah portions.
paulgem123 1 month ago
@sparkshot Sometime we take to much to soon. This is why it is good to learn basics. In all we have to remember to be patient with others and ourselves.
paulgem123 1 month ago