I don't give a flying fuck what or who had to do with pre modern day morals. Marrying and engaging in sexual conduct with someone younger then 17 or 18 is sick and wrong. I don't care if your "holy" prophet or god told raping children was ok, there's no excuse! You are the only one responsible for your actions. There is no justification, reason or lie you can tell. My ancestors, you ancestors either way it doesn't matter.
Mohammed marries a little girl who is 6 years old, and when he is 54 years old and she a 9 year old child it says she had to leave her dolls and playmates and go to the great phrophet so that he could consumate the marriage. There is nothing great about this. A fact there has been little protection for children through the ages, which brought on labor laws and age of consent that was appropriate. But a great man would not have taken advantage of his power and fed a sick lust.
@Paahau In what chapter and verse does the Bible give the age of consent, since it is sick that God does not see anything wrong with Mary being with child at the age of 12... according to the Catholic encyclopedia?
Apparently, your ancestors reveled in this sick lust too.
@webdawah Could you be so good as to tell me chapter & verse in the Bible where it gives the age of Mary? Children have been unprotected throughout history; the age of consent in the 1800's in the U.S. varied from 10-18, w/only 3 states opting for 10. This has changed of course. Child labor laws were also atrocious. The question is an honest one, not a random slander. What middle aged man would be sexually attracted towards a 9 yr. old girl? Would you call him 'great'? I think not.
@Paahau If your Bible does not give the age of consent, what moral high ground do you have to criticize a culture that uses puberty as the determination of adulthood?
The marriage of Muhammad(pbuh) to Aisha(ra) was not about lust. If it were she would not be his only young wife. Not a single Christian of his time criticized this marriage, because they were all 'sick.'
@webdawah You know the Christian community was not upset over Muhammad's marriage and sex with a little girl?? I doubt that. It is obvioius that you have problems with this issue, whether you admit it or not. Your main defense has been that the whole world was crazy for little girls. Hmm, very weak. You attack Christ but no doubt are offended when it is Muhammad being attacked. This strikes me as low activity on both our parts, & myself I will refrain from such in the future.
@Paahau There are many writings by Christians who opposed the prophethood of Muhammad(pbuh). None mentions a thing about his marriage go figure.
Do I have problems with the issue? Read the slogan on my channel. Muslims can be zealous about their faith too. Muslims don't criticize this marriage, hypocritical people do. If it's not the marriage, they would find something else.
I have never attacked Jesus(pbuh). I would like to show me a video, or comment I made where there is an attack.
@webdawah Your posted video 'did Jesus die for our sins': this states only a foolish person would die for our sins. That's an attack on Jesus. Your video Mithras Jesus Paul, attempts, but fails, to reduce Jesus to the status of a figure in a pagan religion. In The Passion in which you so generously encourage Christians to kill themselves because the bible doesn't condemn (or encourage) suicide, you state 'alledgedly' when referring to words of Jesus.
@Paahau Criticism of the Christian doctrine is not an 'attack' on Jesus(pbuh). You should learn the difference. I can criticize an ideology, without 'attacking' the person it was built around.
@webdawah That is amazing to hear. Any action that has the intention of rendering the sacrifice of Jesus as worthless, and wishes to strip the title of divinity from Jesus is an attack on Jesus Christ. How could it be otherwise??
@webdawah Jesus came as the Servant who humbled Himself. I am sure this statement will make you irate, but I don't think you understand this idea and reasoning of the humble, suffering servant, Jesus.
But once He is resurrected Jesus does accept the worship of his followers on Mt. Olive and elsewhere.
@webdawah This is starting to become a full time job but yes, I will check out your video. I have gathered some impressions of where you stand and have been impressed with the effort you have put forth, but yes there are some real holes in my understanding of where you do stand.
YUSUFALI: Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.
PICKTHAL: And for such of your women as despair of menstruation, if ye doubt, their period (of waiting) shall be three months
months, along with those who have it not. And for those with child, their period shall be till they bring forth their burden. And whosoever keepeth his duty to Allah, He maketh his course easy for him.
SHAKIR: And (as for) those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, if you have a doubt, their prescribed time shall be three months, and of those too who have not had their courses; and (as for) the pregnant women, their prescribed time is that they lay down th
@ItsAmadWorld2 The Taqiyya claim is becoming sillier and sillier. If Muslims lie about their beliefs, then what do they practice? Would that not count as hypocrisy, that is condemned in the Qur'an? It seems when clear proof is given by a Muslim, in order to remain in denial, people claim taqiyya. It's a shame.
Yes. Any time a child was raped, you would be put to death in the bible. And having sex with a child not of age to physically have it would cause severe injury to the child. This is simple common sense and anyone that cannot comprehend this fact is of suspect character.
I am afraid you miss the point of that theme. It is made in an attempt to discredit, yes, but also to point out that the Koran, like the bible, has much barbarity (to our modern moral perceptions) in it. Just as Rule 34 applies here, there is also another unnumbered rule about using Paedophilia in an argument. And all the laws you are mentioning apply to arranged marriages. Not to carnal relationships. That is the dividing line.
You obviously know little about arranged marriages. Check on "Arranged Marriage" online and see. There is "consummation of the marriage", which is *not* allowed until the parties are of age (meaning a legal or physical ability to have sex). To properly evaluate where that fine line is drawn, it is incumbent on the evaluator to consider cultural norms and laws of the time. The word "Paedophilia" may be only ~50 years old, but it was still a crime as far back as laws have existed.
Can you site examples in history where 'paedophilia' was a crime. Besides, marrying or consummating a marriage with someone much younger does not constitute pedophilia.
You don't try to prosecute a man without evidence. You don't ask the defense counsel to go look for the evidence you claim is there, you are the one who presents it. If you can't I understand... I know it's not there.
Pedophilia is the sexual preference for pre pubescent children.
The argument in your video seems to make ambiguous the distinction between someone being a pedophile and someone being a child rapist.
In the case of the latter, the mere illustration that very young children were sexually abused in a cross-cultural context doesn't lessen the the moral repugnancy of the act proper, even when it wasn't considered bad by whatever culture it occurred in. The child still suffers, after all.
No culture is perfect. What a culture practices is a norm, and people are psychologically adapted to these practices. Saying that in every case, the child suffers is a blanket statement, except you have statistical data from these cultures.
So you're telling me that if someone has intercourse with a child, that the child will not suffer? Wow. This isn't a moral distinction between cultures; suffering is objective, and it's trans-cultural.
If you want evidence that child rape causes suffering, then it's very, very, very easy to find, and the implications are universal, regardless of the culture the child inhabits. Cultural norms can never legitmize child rape. Ever.
Evidence is what I go by, I don't make presumptions. It would not be rape, if the culture in question regards the 'child' as an adult bride, or the 'child' consents to it as pert of marriage ritual. Rape is a much different case. Learn to distinguish between the two.
"It would not be rape, if the culture in question regards the 'child' as an adult bride, or the 'child' consents to it as pert of marriage ritual"
I would contend that a human being of that age is not psychologically mature enough to give informed consent, and that this is an inherently -biological- limitation, not cultural. It doesn't matter whether the culture considers it rape or not, the issue is whether true consent can be given, and at that age it cannot.
No specific threshold, it's not like you hit your birthday and suddenly reach an appropriate level of maturity. I would speak of age as the most accurate shorthand correlation to mental maturity, useful in legal terms. But I would say it's definitely the case that the ages we're speaking of are much too young.
...And some are not precocious? Or groomed early in life for an early marriage? I believe if it has worked in any society, there has to have been adequate preparation for these marriages.
No, I only disagree when people try to justify marrying a 9 year old. Wether they had sex or not doesn't mean anything to the immoral action of marrying a 9 year old. Again though, you are saying your religion forbids anal sex is just as ridiculous, you force your will even into people's private lives, not to mention this all based on a story that has failed in providing evidence for its validity.
What is morality? If a people came 1000 years from now and said it is immoral to marry at 18, would you be seen as a pedophile too? I don't understand what you consider logical.
Really, is that the best you can do, the reason 9 is different from 18 is because we can show adverse effects of marrying a 9 year old, both to the child and society. Not so with 18, and yes morality changes as we learn more about the world. Seeing that Muslims claim moral superiority derived from their book, it shows that God isn't superior in morality. Also, the Koran condones slavery, which is immoral and if God was really the moral judge, wouldn't he have a problem with this.
You did not answer the question posed. If there is proof that an 18 year old is a child, say a thousand years from now, would you accept that you are immoral?
Yes, I would accept that I was immoral on that occasion. But, you have to provide evidence (proof is a mathematical term). But first you would have to have a strict definition of child that an 18 year old falls into, then show how that marrying an 18 year old is detrimental to both the 18 year old and the society. But by a logical definition you would fail, because 18 year olds are capable of producing, making reasonably sound decisions and for the most part fully developed.
So, your assertion is that you will not accept that an 18 year old is a child, even with proof. What makes you different from the people you criticize?
No, I didn't say that. What I said is you would have to show beyond a reasonable doubt that marrying an 18 year old is the same as a 9 year old or that it is at least detrimental to the 18 year old and or society she lives in. Then I went on to say that by the definitions that we use to say you can't marry a 9 year old, doesn't hold up to why you can't marry an 18 year old. Next time, try not jump to conclusions.
I did answer the question, you just chose to ignore it, its the first sentence to the post before the last two. But, what you are trying to do will never happen, why, because even then they should have known better. Marrying a 9 year old isn't very logical when most marriages back then were so heirs could be produced.
If you would accept that you are immoral, then it is clear you cannot differentiate morality from culture. What you are debating is not morality, but culture.
Also, you have shown that you are culturally prejudiced.
It is clearly a blanket inference that every one who married did that for ensuring a progeny, simply because 'most' marriages were for the same reason.
Nope, you are wrong again, I base morals on facts. For every moral you have you should show how it benefits society to have this moral, if it doesn't then its a bad moral to have.
Only until the 19th century did people start to marry because of romantic love, in india and muslim countries marriages are still arranged. Progeny and wealth are the two main factors involved in these arranged marriages. So again, don't jump to conclusions.
I'm not though, look it up. Before the nineteenth century most marriages were not based on romantic love, but even love doesn't excuse marrying a 9 year old.
I would not need to look it up, if you would provide the references.
"but even love doesn't excuse marrying a 9 year old." In your culture. I wonder which one it is, though. I really don't know what you culture practiced in the 7th century. Hmmm let me guess... The same thing.
Morals and cultures are very intertwined, and any moral or cultural practice that has more negative effects than positive effects is to be considered bad. Example: Female Circumcision in Africa, there is no need for it, it doesn't improve life and in fact makes things worse. The good doesn't out weigh the bad, so it is morally and ethically wrong.
Wrong again, if female circumcision doesn't have anything to do with morals, and is morally neutral then you live in a universe other than I. Different cultures tend to have the same morals over all, though they also have moral and cultural practices that are different. We can take those moral and cultural practices and examine them, and see if they are beneficial or detrimental, then we can make a moral call, female circumcision is immoral and unethical, so you are wrong again.
You seem to think because a culture has different practices that they are immune to moral understanding. This would explain why women in Muslim countries are punished when they are raped. The person who raped them is morally corrupt and the society that punishes the victim is morally corrupt.
If you are saying women aren't raped in muslim countries, then you are seriously delusional. I think you waste your own time, everyday you wake up. Look it up, see what the laws in islamic countries are as they pertain to rape. Did you know a woman needs 4 witnesses.
Rape is a universal issue, and no society is immune. Stop telling me to look things up. If you know about it, provide your references. Anyone can make any assertion and say "look it up."
Nothing in the Sharia law requires for witnesses for rape.
Well, to the people that do it, it is suppose to stop women from cheating on their husbands. In actuality all it is is forced mutilation. So yeah it is an issue of morals and ethics, if you don't think so then explain.
You have just shown that it is a cultural practice. The practice has nothing to do with morals. Would you be immoral to not practice circumcision on your daughter? She won't be cheating on you, it would be her husband's business.
Do women volunteer for this? If yes, then it is a moral issue. Do you get it?
Yes they do, they are subject to morals and stem from morals from that culture. They have everything to do with morals. Yes you would be immoral to practice circumcision on your daughter. I see now you don't understand what morality is, nor do you understand of female circumcision is or how it is forced onto people. Women don't volunteer it is forced upon them, making it a moral issue. DO YOU GET IT?
I've come to the conclusion that you will argue with anything and especially the things you have no clue what you are arguing about. Read up on Female Circumcision and how it is practiced and forced upon women and then tell me if forced body mutilation isn't a moral issue, if it isn't then you are retarded and you don't understand what morals are in the first place.
Why don't you look up culture and see how much a cultures morality intertwines with the culture itself. If that is a serious question from you then I suggest reading some books about cultural practices from different cultures and those cultures views on morals.
About Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) and Islam, Paul Findly (non-Muslim) wrote in his book Silent No More that "the false linkage to Islam results primarily from the fact that U.S. news media provide little coverage of life in Africa and are misinformed in many ways
(Cont.) As a consequence, the American people are unaware that FGM is widely practiced in several African countries where Muslims are only a minority such as Kenya, Ghana, Benin and Liberia. Nor do most Americans know that a large number of Christian, Jewish, as well as other non-Muslim females in African countries are among the victims (Findley, 154-155).
Right I never said it was muslim practice, perhaps you shouldn't jump to conclusions. Or read all the post so the next time you want to make a statement you can do so in the right context.
Christians and the Zionists or even Atheist and Secularist don't know their history or culture because they are all following the European common laws.
I don't give a flying fuck what or who had to do with pre modern day morals. Marrying and engaging in sexual conduct with someone younger then 17 or 18 is sick and wrong. I don't care if your "holy" prophet or god told raping children was ok, there's no excuse! You are the only one responsible for your actions. There is no justification, reason or lie you can tell. My ancestors, you ancestors either way it doesn't matter.
SapphireMist888 3 days ago
@SapphireMist888 The age of consent in the UK is 16. Take it from there, I await your response.
webdawah 3 days ago
@SecurityAlertsNow Perhaps, you should educate yourself about the topic before trying to speak about it.
webdawah 2 months ago
1950, that's right, they used to be call didling before that. Sick
suggesttwo 3 months ago
Mohammed marries a little girl who is 6 years old, and when he is 54 years old and she a 9 year old child it says she had to leave her dolls and playmates and go to the great phrophet so that he could consumate the marriage. There is nothing great about this. A fact there has been little protection for children through the ages, which brought on labor laws and age of consent that was appropriate. But a great man would not have taken advantage of his power and fed a sick lust.
Paahau 1 year ago
@Paahau In what chapter and verse does the Bible give the age of consent, since it is sick that God does not see anything wrong with Mary being with child at the age of 12... according to the Catholic encyclopedia?
Apparently, your ancestors reveled in this sick lust too.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah Could you be so good as to tell me chapter & verse in the Bible where it gives the age of Mary? Children have been unprotected throughout history; the age of consent in the 1800's in the U.S. varied from 10-18, w/only 3 states opting for 10. This has changed of course. Child labor laws were also atrocious. The question is an honest one, not a random slander. What middle aged man would be sexually attracted towards a 9 yr. old girl? Would you call him 'great'? I think not.
Paahau 1 year ago
@Paahau If your Bible does not give the age of consent, what moral high ground do you have to criticize a culture that uses puberty as the determination of adulthood?
The marriage of Muhammad(pbuh) to Aisha(ra) was not about lust. If it were she would not be his only young wife. Not a single Christian of his time criticized this marriage, because they were all 'sick.'
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah You know the Christian community was not upset over Muhammad's marriage and sex with a little girl?? I doubt that. It is obvioius that you have problems with this issue, whether you admit it or not. Your main defense has been that the whole world was crazy for little girls. Hmm, very weak. You attack Christ but no doubt are offended when it is Muhammad being attacked. This strikes me as low activity on both our parts, & myself I will refrain from such in the future.
Paahau 1 year ago
@Paahau There are many writings by Christians who opposed the prophethood of Muhammad(pbuh). None mentions a thing about his marriage go figure.
Do I have problems with the issue? Read the slogan on my channel. Muslims can be zealous about their faith too. Muslims don't criticize this marriage, hypocritical people do. If it's not the marriage, they would find something else.
I have never attacked Jesus(pbuh). I would like to show me a video, or comment I made where there is an attack.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah Your posted video 'did Jesus die for our sins': this states only a foolish person would die for our sins. That's an attack on Jesus. Your video Mithras Jesus Paul, attempts, but fails, to reduce Jesus to the status of a figure in a pagan religion. In The Passion in which you so generously encourage Christians to kill themselves because the bible doesn't condemn (or encourage) suicide, you state 'alledgedly' when referring to words of Jesus.
Does that help?
Paahau 1 year ago
@Paahau Criticism of the Christian doctrine is not an 'attack' on Jesus(pbuh). You should learn the difference. I can criticize an ideology, without 'attacking' the person it was built around.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah That is amazing to hear. Any action that has the intention of rendering the sacrifice of Jesus as worthless, and wishes to strip the title of divinity from Jesus is an attack on Jesus Christ. How could it be otherwise??
Paahau 1 year ago
@Paahau Did Jesus(pbuh) ask to be worshiped? If he were God, that is his right he should have demanded it.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah Jesus came as the Servant who humbled Himself. I am sure this statement will make you irate, but I don't think you understand this idea and reasoning of the humble, suffering servant, Jesus.
But once He is resurrected Jesus does accept the worship of his followers on Mt. Olive and elsewhere.
Paahau 1 year ago
@Paahau Watch my video; "The Story of a Family" if you have not done so already. I'd like to continue this discussion when you know where I stand.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah This is starting to become a full time job but yes, I will check out your video. I have gathered some impressions of where you stand and have been impressed with the effort you have put forth, but yes there are some real holes in my understanding of where you do stand.
Paahau 1 year ago
065.004
YUSUFALI: Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.
PICKTHAL: And for such of your women as despair of menstruation, if ye doubt, their period (of waiting) shall be three months
ItsAmadWorld2 1 year ago
065.004
months, along with those who have it not. And for those with child, their period shall be till they bring forth their burden. And whosoever keepeth his duty to Allah, He maketh his course easy for him.
SHAKIR: And (as for) those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, if you have a doubt, their prescribed time shall be three months, and of those too who have not had their courses; and (as for) the pregnant women, their prescribed time is that they lay down th
ItsAmadWorld2 1 year ago
@ItsAmadWorld2
This passage, along with the sahih about Aisha being nine when consumated, seems to mean pedophilia is allowed within Islam.
ItsAmadWorld2 1 year ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 watch?v=I5vWnmt-zSc
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah
And, that video WON'T be taqqiya, but, truthfully show...what?
ItsAmadWorld2 1 year ago
@ItsAmadWorld2 The Taqiyya claim is becoming sillier and sillier. If Muslims lie about their beliefs, then what do they practice? Would that not count as hypocrisy, that is condemned in the Qur'an? It seems when clear proof is given by a Muslim, in order to remain in denial, people claim taqiyya. It's a shame.
webdawah 1 year ago
smashing 5 stars!
pamuk7 1 year ago
Salam alaikum Brother you have a big fan Here :) MashALlah Please keep it up defending Islam and the Quran and the Prophet muhammed
May Allah Reward you jazakAllah
You bring Good proof and speak with good manner, you show true muslim values and patience.
BrotherSkillz 2 years ago
the Prophet muhammed Peace and blessings be Upon him :)
BrotherSkillz 2 years ago
@BrotherSkillz Alhamdulillah, bro.
webdawah 1 year ago
Yes. Any time a child was raped, you would be put to death in the bible. And having sex with a child not of age to physically have it would cause severe injury to the child. This is simple common sense and anyone that cannot comprehend this fact is of suspect character.
RyuDarragh 2 years ago
Please show the chapter and verses of the Bible.
webdawah 2 years ago
I am afraid you miss the point of that theme. It is made in an attempt to discredit, yes, but also to point out that the Koran, like the bible, has much barbarity (to our modern moral perceptions) in it. Just as Rule 34 applies here, there is also another unnumbered rule about using Paedophilia in an argument. And all the laws you are mentioning apply to arranged marriages. Not to carnal relationships. That is the dividing line.
RyuDarragh 2 years ago
...and marriages are for staring at your partner's eyes and not carnal?
webdawah 2 years ago
You obviously know little about arranged marriages. Check on "Arranged Marriage" online and see. There is "consummation of the marriage", which is *not* allowed until the parties are of age (meaning a legal or physical ability to have sex). To properly evaluate where that fine line is drawn, it is incumbent on the evaluator to consider cultural norms and laws of the time. The word "Paedophilia" may be only ~50 years old, but it was still a crime as far back as laws have existed.
RyuDarragh 2 years ago
Can you site examples in history where 'paedophilia' was a crime. Besides, marrying or consummating a marriage with someone much younger does not constitute pedophilia.
webdawah 2 years ago
How old was Mary when she was pregnant with your god?
webdawah 2 years ago
if muhammad is supposed to be a prophet of god, one should expect him to know more about the female body than a 5th century troglodyte.
sum1unxpected 2 years ago
Actually he did. He knew more than most people of his time, and beyond.
/watch?v=5hToyGMGfFg
webdawah 2 years ago
do you think the practice of pedophilia should be adopted today?
if not, then why aren't you speaking against the muslims who still marry off children to older men?
genocide was also common for people in the time of muhammad, does that mean it should be acceptable?
sum1unxpected 2 years ago
I'm not sure I follow you on your definition of pedophilia.
webdawah 2 years ago
is a nine year old a child?
sum1unxpected 2 years ago
In most societies, yes. That however does not define pedophilia.
webdawah 2 years ago
does the culture in which a child is brought up determine when the child is physically ready to have sex?
let's talk about basic mechanics. you wouldn't try to fit a 1/2" screw in a 1/4" socket, would you?
it doesn't matter what culture you were brought up in. a girl that's too young is too young.
sum1unxpected 2 years ago
Is this about body mechanics? How about cases of childbirth at such ages, never heard of any?
webdawah 2 years ago
"How about cases of childbirth at such ages, never heard of any?"
actually i have, it usually results in death for both the mother and the child.
you can research it online
sum1unxpected 2 years ago
at nine years old, not fourteen
sum1unxpected 2 years ago
Give a link to these studies and research.
webdawah 2 years ago
if you were interested you would look it up yourself.
sum1unxpected 2 years ago
You are the one making the assertion, back it up.
webdawah 2 years ago
you are the one who is too lazy to type the word "puberty" into a search engine.
knowledge from the most intelligent people in academia is at your fingertips.
and yet you refuse to access it.
i don't have to spoon feed you stuff you should have learned in middle school sex-ed. look it up yourself!
sum1unxpected 2 years ago
You don't try to prosecute a man without evidence. You don't ask the defense counsel to go look for the evidence you claim is there, you are the one who presents it. If you can't I understand... I know it's not there.
webdawah 2 years ago
just look at the wikipedia article on puberty.
it takes two seconds to find online. youtube won't allow me to post links for some reason.
sum1unxpected 2 years ago
Just looked it up. I don't see what you are talking about. What sub topic has these claims you state?
webdawah 2 years ago
it says puberty occurs between the ages of 10 and 14, because 14 is typically the age at which puberty ends.
sum1unxpected 2 years ago
In other words you die at that age during childbirth? or your mind also develops as a consequence?
webdawah 2 years ago
what do you mean?
14 year old girls give birth quite naturally, nine year olds die at that age in childbirth.
also the mind develops a more adult configuration of neurons during puberty.
look up "brain development during puberty"
sum1unxpected 2 years ago
look up "nine year old pregnancies" on any search engine
sum1unxpected 2 years ago
If puberty begins at 10, how do 9 years olds get pregnant?
webdawah 2 years ago
some girls begin menstruating at 9.
sum1unxpected 2 years ago
Which I think is the reason why some cultures consider someone at puberty an adult.
webdawah 2 years ago
in some cultures, people don't know about medical complications resulting from pregnancy at that age.
or they don't care.
sum1unxpected 2 years ago
Apparently, there are not much of complications if that is a practice that's being perpetuated.
webdawah 2 years ago
search "young pregnancy risks"
sum1unxpected 2 years ago
There are risks at any age. What's your point?
webdawah 2 years ago
they are vastly more likely to die in childbirth before the ages of 14-15
sum1unxpected 2 years ago
Same difference.
webdawah 2 years ago
Pedophilia is the sexual preference for pre pubescent children.
The argument in your video seems to make ambiguous the distinction between someone being a pedophile and someone being a child rapist.
In the case of the latter, the mere illustration that very young children were sexually abused in a cross-cultural context doesn't lessen the the moral repugnancy of the act proper, even when it wasn't considered bad by whatever culture it occurred in. The child still suffers, after all.
OverusedChewToy 2 years ago
No culture is perfect. What a culture practices is a norm, and people are psychologically adapted to these practices. Saying that in every case, the child suffers is a blanket statement, except you have statistical data from these cultures.
webdawah 2 years ago
So you're telling me that if someone has intercourse with a child, that the child will not suffer? Wow. This isn't a moral distinction between cultures; suffering is objective, and it's trans-cultural.
If you want evidence that child rape causes suffering, then it's very, very, very easy to find, and the implications are universal, regardless of the culture the child inhabits. Cultural norms can never legitmize child rape. Ever.
OverusedChewToy 2 years ago
Evidence is what I go by, I don't make presumptions. It would not be rape, if the culture in question regards the 'child' as an adult bride, or the 'child' consents to it as pert of marriage ritual. Rape is a much different case. Learn to distinguish between the two.
webdawah 2 years ago
"It would not be rape, if the culture in question regards the 'child' as an adult bride, or the 'child' consents to it as pert of marriage ritual"
I would contend that a human being of that age is not psychologically mature enough to give informed consent, and that this is an inherently -biological- limitation, not cultural. It doesn't matter whether the culture considers it rape or not, the issue is whether true consent can be given, and at that age it cannot.
OverusedChewToy 2 years ago
At what age then, do you suppose that true consent can be given?
webdawah 2 years ago
No specific threshold, it's not like you hit your birthday and suddenly reach an appropriate level of maturity. I would speak of age as the most accurate shorthand correlation to mental maturity, useful in legal terms. But I would say it's definitely the case that the ages we're speaking of are much too young.
OverusedChewToy 2 years ago
...And some are not precocious? Or groomed early in life for an early marriage? I believe if it has worked in any society, there has to have been adequate preparation for these marriages.
webdawah 2 years ago
i would say at least 14.
sum1unxpected 2 years ago
Backed by what?
webdawah 2 years ago
that is the typical age when the female body has finished going through puberty.
you should research puberty online, you would learn a lot.
sum1unxpected 2 years ago
lol, puberty affects mental maturity?
webdawah 2 years ago
*facepalm*
duh.
sum1unxpected 2 years ago
Based on who's research?
webdawah 2 years ago
Extremely useful video.
telur2606 2 years ago
Mohammad only had anal sex with his 9 year old wife till she got older
xlioilx 2 years ago
making him a pedophile, it doesn't matter if it was custom at the time, it is still immoral.
BobtheNarc 2 years ago
I think you would disagree with anything presented before you. The post you responded to is false by the way.
webdawah 2 years ago
No, I only disagree when people try to justify marrying a 9 year old. Wether they had sex or not doesn't mean anything to the immoral action of marrying a 9 year old. Again though, you are saying your religion forbids anal sex is just as ridiculous, you force your will even into people's private lives, not to mention this all based on a story that has failed in providing evidence for its validity.
BobtheNarc 2 years ago
What is morality? If a people came 1000 years from now and said it is immoral to marry at 18, would you be seen as a pedophile too? I don't understand what you consider logical.
webdawah 2 years ago
Really, is that the best you can do, the reason 9 is different from 18 is because we can show adverse effects of marrying a 9 year old, both to the child and society. Not so with 18, and yes morality changes as we learn more about the world. Seeing that Muslims claim moral superiority derived from their book, it shows that God isn't superior in morality. Also, the Koran condones slavery, which is immoral and if God was really the moral judge, wouldn't he have a problem with this.
BobtheNarc 2 years ago
You did not answer the question posed. If there is proof that an 18 year old is a child, say a thousand years from now, would you accept that you are immoral?
webdawah 2 years ago
Yes, I would accept that I was immoral on that occasion. But, you have to provide evidence (proof is a mathematical term). But first you would have to have a strict definition of child that an 18 year old falls into, then show how that marrying an 18 year old is detrimental to both the 18 year old and the society. But by a logical definition you would fail, because 18 year olds are capable of producing, making reasonably sound decisions and for the most part fully developed.
BobtheNarc 2 years ago
Unlike a 9 year old child.
BobtheNarc 2 years ago
So, your assertion is that you will not accept that an 18 year old is a child, even with proof. What makes you different from the people you criticize?
webdawah 2 years ago
No, I didn't say that. What I said is you would have to show beyond a reasonable doubt that marrying an 18 year old is the same as a 9 year old or that it is at least detrimental to the 18 year old and or society she lives in. Then I went on to say that by the definitions that we use to say you can't marry a 9 year old, doesn't hold up to why you can't marry an 18 year old. Next time, try not jump to conclusions.
BobtheNarc 2 years ago
The question is still not being answered. Will you or not, consider yourself immoral if this proof is brought before you?
webdawah 2 years ago
I did answer the question, you just chose to ignore it, its the first sentence to the post before the last two. But, what you are trying to do will never happen, why, because even then they should have known better. Marrying a 9 year old isn't very logical when most marriages back then were so heirs could be produced.
BobtheNarc 2 years ago
If you would accept that you are immoral, then it is clear you cannot differentiate morality from culture. What you are debating is not morality, but culture.
Also, you have shown that you are culturally prejudiced.
It is clearly a blanket inference that every one who married did that for ensuring a progeny, simply because 'most' marriages were for the same reason.
webdawah 2 years ago
Nope, you are wrong again, I base morals on facts. For every moral you have you should show how it benefits society to have this moral, if it doesn't then its a bad moral to have.
Only until the 19th century did people start to marry because of romantic love, in india and muslim countries marriages are still arranged. Progeny and wealth are the two main factors involved in these arranged marriages. So again, don't jump to conclusions.
BobtheNarc 2 years ago
You're not differentiating morals from cultural practices.
You may be the one jumping to conclusion by stating that "only until the 19th century did people start to marry because of romantic love."
webdawah 2 years ago
I'm not though, look it up. Before the nineteenth century most marriages were not based on romantic love, but even love doesn't excuse marrying a 9 year old.
BobtheNarc 2 years ago
I would not need to look it up, if you would provide the references.
"but even love doesn't excuse marrying a 9 year old." In your culture. I wonder which one it is, though. I really don't know what you culture practiced in the 7th century. Hmmm let me guess... The same thing.
webdawah 2 years ago
Morals and cultures are very intertwined, and any moral or cultural practice that has more negative effects than positive effects is to be considered bad. Example: Female Circumcision in Africa, there is no need for it, it doesn't improve life and in fact makes things worse. The good doesn't out weigh the bad, so it is morally and ethically wrong.
BobtheNarc 2 years ago
Your excuse for not being able to distinguish culture from morality is that they are intertwined.
Female circumcision is nothing to do with morals.
webdawah 2 years ago
Wrong again, if female circumcision doesn't have anything to do with morals, and is morally neutral then you live in a universe other than I. Different cultures tend to have the same morals over all, though they also have moral and cultural practices that are different. We can take those moral and cultural practices and examine them, and see if they are beneficial or detrimental, then we can make a moral call, female circumcision is immoral and unethical, so you are wrong again.
BobtheNarc 2 years ago
You seem to think because a culture has different practices that they are immune to moral understanding. This would explain why women in Muslim countries are punished when they are raped. The person who raped them is morally corrupt and the society that punishes the victim is morally corrupt.
BobtheNarc 2 years ago
I never said that cultures are immune to moral understanding. How many cases of rape in Muslim countries do you know? Let me guess... One.
You want to sound intelligent in your arguments but you generalize without references. Are you trying to waste me time?
webdawah 2 years ago
If you are saying women aren't raped in muslim countries, then you are seriously delusional. I think you waste your own time, everyday you wake up. Look it up, see what the laws in islamic countries are as they pertain to rape. Did you know a woman needs 4 witnesses.
BobtheNarc 2 years ago
Rape is a universal issue, and no society is immune. Stop telling me to look things up. If you know about it, provide your references. Anyone can make any assertion and say "look it up."
Nothing in the Sharia law requires for witnesses for rape.
webdawah 2 years ago
You are repeating yourself, and your assertion is faulty. What is the moral incentive in female circumcision, since you insist it is a moral issue?
webdawah 2 years ago
Well, to the people that do it, it is suppose to stop women from cheating on their husbands. In actuality all it is is forced mutilation. So yeah it is an issue of morals and ethics, if you don't think so then explain.
BobtheNarc 2 years ago
You have just shown that it is a cultural practice. The practice has nothing to do with morals. Would you be immoral to not practice circumcision on your daughter? She won't be cheating on you, it would be her husband's business.
Do women volunteer for this? If yes, then it is a moral issue. Do you get it?
webdawah 2 years ago
Yes they do, they are subject to morals and stem from morals from that culture. They have everything to do with morals. Yes you would be immoral to practice circumcision on your daughter. I see now you don't understand what morality is, nor do you understand of female circumcision is or how it is forced onto people. Women don't volunteer it is forced upon them, making it a moral issue. DO YOU GET IT?
BobtheNarc 2 years ago
Oh how you contradict yourself. You say they volunteer for this and you within the next 50 words say it is forced upon them.
webdawah 2 years ago
I've come to the conclusion that you will argue with anything and especially the things you have no clue what you are arguing about. Read up on Female Circumcision and how it is practiced and forced upon women and then tell me if forced body mutilation isn't a moral issue, if it isn't then you are retarded and you don't understand what morals are in the first place.
BobtheNarc 2 years ago
Please define morality.
webdawah 2 years ago
⋅ral⋅i⋅ty [muh-ral-i-tee, maw-]
noun, plural -ties for 46.
1.conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct.
2.moral quality or character.
3.virtue in sexual matters; chastity.
4.a doctrine or system of morals.
BobtheNarc 2 years ago
I'm sure you also looked up culture while you were at it. How much are they "intertwined"?
webdawah 2 years ago
Why don't you look up culture and see how much a cultures morality intertwines with the culture itself. If that is a serious question from you then I suggest reading some books about cultural practices from different cultures and those cultures views on morals.
BobtheNarc 2 years ago
What is your cultural background?
webdawah 2 years ago
American
BobtheNarc 2 years ago
About Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) and Islam, Paul Findly (non-Muslim) wrote in his book Silent No More that "the false linkage to Islam results primarily from the fact that U.S. news media provide little coverage of life in Africa and are misinformed in many ways
amalwa3li 2 years ago
(Cont.) As a consequence, the American people are unaware that FGM is widely practiced in several African countries where Muslims are only a minority such as Kenya, Ghana, Benin and Liberia. Nor do most Americans know that a large number of Christian, Jewish, as well as other non-Muslim females in African countries are among the victims (Findley, 154-155).
amalwa3li 2 years ago
Right I never said it was muslim practice, perhaps you shouldn't jump to conclusions. Or read all the post so the next time you want to make a statement you can do so in the right context.
BobtheNarc 2 years ago
I'm am sure as well as you that your post is garbage. Islam forbids anal sex. You have earned yourself a place in my blocked users list.
webdawah 2 years ago
excellent video!!
Barak Allah feek akhi
BeMyBro 2 years ago
Christians and the Zionists or even Atheist and Secularist don't know their history or culture because they are all following the European common laws.
AdorIslam 2 years ago
Well done Brother, not only the facts you mentioned but in christian and jew Arabia this was ALSO practiced it was the custom of the time.
ASA753 2 years ago
amazing,
do you have the excerpts of the pages you quoted? please send me the text, thanks
muslim9x9x 2 years ago
These are books I found in the library, but I will try to write an article about it on my blog. It should be easier to access there.
webdawah 2 years ago
subhan'Allah. barak'Allahu feek akhi
LTFPeace 2 years ago 3
great research bro! you should compile the quotes in an article so that it is more easily accessible and sharable.
tolerancelastic 2 years ago 5
Good idea, I should put it up on my blog sometime soon.
webdawah 2 years ago
BarakAllahu feek
SFAproductions 2 years ago 5
Jazak'Allah khair akhi.
TheEndGameBoY 2 years ago 8