@999YORK So why don't you go and listen to a discussion you like by "non-dykes" and "non-kikes"...and keep your offensive comments to yourself? No one's forcing you to listen to it.
sorry, you are mistake. ;Christians certainly have a concept of what constitutes truth, morality & the social good-just as you. These beliefs are expressed in all manner of good actions including feeding the hungry, aiding the poor, caring for widows and orphans, missions, opposing evil wars, social oppressions, and building hospitals and schools among many other endeavors. There is real good & evil & maybe it's your conscience bothered by certain behaviors. God rules our eternal destinies
@shieldsff Everything you said contradicts itself in the Christian Bible. Anyone can do those good things and even better than Christians, you know why? Because people without a God can feed the hungry, and house the homeless, without making them sit through a sermon and saying "God loves you, and he has a plan for you."
@handsup48 thanks for replying, but I can't identify anywhere where I asserted they do not... What I was stating if you will allow is that we do these things in others in the name of Christ Jesus and to the glory of God the Father. If you engage in charity and do good deeds and charity good and well and please don;t stop. Jesus, however, makes clear that the Love of God is in Him and that the only way to have true peace, righteousness and knowledge of God is by trusting in Him, Jesus
@shieldsff You don't have to be good to get the love of God or to get to Heaven (Which is what it sounds like you're implying, I can't really understand your words) you can rape, murder, and steal, but before death repent, and your "Soul is saved"
I would suggest that you not make any of those things a fact which appears on your obituary.... as for "repenting before death, etc...", possibly, but that is completely in the providence of the Lord. Moreover in the event one suffers sudden death such as from a transportation accident or cardiac arrest there may very well not be any opportunity whatsoever to make the so-called "provisional" repentance to which you refer.To pass into eternal willfully rejecting Jesus is to die in sin
@handsup48 - no not at all.... have you read the Bible ? Take a look at the letter of Romans. It makes quite clear that having active faith in Jesus Christ transforms a person's entire life, outlook and being in time and eternity. This supernatural power (the life of the Spirit) makes the person alive to their Creator and (in the final reckoning and end of time and history) dispels and overcomes ALL the evils and unrighteousness of the temporal world and fallen human nature.
@shieldsff Turns out that not everyone has active faith in Jesus, and there is still evil. And even people who have had active faith in Jesus caused great harm. So what point are you trying to prove?
Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have succeeded at framing themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
@BiblePreacher889 how do we oppose the will of God? if God really hated us, he'd have wiped us out long ago. or not made us in the first place. makes no sense that he made us, then purposely made his followers into hate-filled doucheholes to hassle us.
seems like kind of a round-about way of getting stuff done to me.
@biblepreacher889 yes we know 'god' hates us,but do you? That what I fuckin hate about you assholes, why don't you strap on a pair and just say it , ' we hate gay people' ! When you say 'god' hates us, it's means NOTHING! You have just been a victim of religion where you don't have a single thought in your head that's your own!! And god isn't real! Grow the fuck up buttmunch!
I'm sorry I just hate how both hosts had fun with this song. Thinking about how children learn and sing something like that made me really sick to my stomach.
@BiblePreacher889 Then can you please help me in destorying all polyester and protesting infront of red lobster. Please let your irrational, idiot, hate show your true evil, backward nature so we can, as a society, write you off as irrelevant and move on.
I believe in minding my business, whom ever wants to be together is their business, but I do have one question. This is not meant to be disrespectful at all; I was in a forum and the topic gay marriage came up ,and someone mentioned that if this were to happen, then sex ed class will have to rightly include gay sex. Is this true?
I think that the majority of dislikes here are due to the singing intro;.... it's a full minute long!!! Get rid of it! At least don't have a full minute intro on every part of this episode. -.-
@choongd Christians are happy people filled with structure and morals to in their life. You don't realize how critical the church is to the U.S. I think it's funny how churches feed most of the poor, marry the most people, provide the most advice and much more.
@DannyBISFAJohnson "You don't realize how critical the church is to the U.S" If this is true...how come the conservative states have the lowest literacy rates, the lowest educational levels, the lowest rates for salaries and the highest teen pregnancy rates? And if you look at any statistics on Meth use, DUI's, crime conservative states rank really high up there. It's also fairly common to have religious and preacher's kids be the first to use drugs or get knocked up.
Religion does indeed do some good things... aiding poor, etc. But then, they've also been involved in some really awful stuff... people today don't want to recall slavery (people quoted the bible before the civil war to justify the practice), the inquisition (not us, the Spaniards did that--oh sure), religious wars (yes, even today, this happens)... The list is long and endless... Joshuah is celebrated but I have to say, he's a war criminal no better than Slobodan Milosevic.
Whether it's a suicide bomber or a gay hater, or slaver, or an inquisitionist, or a war criminal like Joshuah, Milosevich, Gadhafi, they all... ALL have one common mantra for justifying what regular folks consider evil acts: "God says it's OK and he blesses my actions therefore what I do is righteous in his eyes." Granted, hating gays isn't as atrocious as murdering 1,000 people, but whether you steal land that God says is his gift to you or you form cliques that exclude people... same idea.
@martinimix79 LoL the bible also says that a pregnant woman will appear on the moon in the last days, and a dragon will appear shortly after to eat her soon to be born baby who will rule the world. This is the problem with "atheism". Everyone thinks that because they're atheist, they're a genius. And anyone who shows any interest in religion MUST be religious. To all atheists, religion = christianity. Its fucking moronic. Following atheism requires no more intelligence than following a religion
@mackles Please don't make assumptions. Not about marriage (which I found wrong with a few minutes of research), where others get their morals (I can go into full detail why my morals are based on logic and rationality), and what others think. Some atheists may attack christianity, and this happens for many reasons. Because they are attacked, because they live in countries where they are the majority, and often it's just the funnest one to pick apart.
@Seraph821 Honestly, I don't see why I should have to feel like shit, just because I call myself an "atheist", when all it means is I don't believe in a god. You're attitude just... bugs me xP
Fuck, Matt, and most of the hosts on the show, are incredibly interested in religion. None of their viewers assume they are religious. Just because one or a few have assumed so of you doesn't mean you have to start looping everyone into a big group of "morons" and start telling us how stupid we are.
@martinimix79 To clarify, I'm not christian. The fact that there is no god is a no-brainer, there is no need for argument. I see the good use of religion, and of course I see its bad. But you made my point: society evolves from holy script. Yes. Exactly. You were raised by religious parents, in a religious country - as unpleasant as it may seem - your morals are religious. All of your ideas of right or wrong stem from scripture. All of humanity's roots are in religion, I think thats fascinating.
@martinimix79 Again, marriage is cultural. Marriage isn't exclusive to social recognition, legal status or any other understanding of it you might have - these are westen practices. Besides all of this, what's most hilarious is that marriage is a product of religious practice. Marriage exists because of religion. Only after the reformation did religion become separate from state. And STILL, you'd be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't have a wedding ceremony reminiscent of a religion one
@martinimix79 I didn't notice these posts, so I'll address them in short: Religion is no comparison to women's rights or civil rights - Those are cultural, and incredibly recent in history; Religion, however, has existed as long as humanity's ability to communicate with symbols, and can be found in the history of every civilization on earth. Religion is a massive power that isn't summed only by christianity, so don't be so fast to treat it as such.
@martinimix79 The point I'm making is that this idea of community in atheism that joins people together in common interest of a world view is clearly the early progressive idea of forming a type of religion - only under a different label! In reality, its a groups devotion to what they believe to be truth. That's religion! By the way, I don't believe in god. I identify as a minimalist - when we die, we die = this life is all we have. Free thinking is also humility, all I hear is hate for piety.
@martinimix79 Well, an athesist can't believe in a god right? An atheist can't believe in a divine creation, disembodied spirits, practices that connect a physical body with a spiritual realm, or divine power concentrated in item, locations, or building right? Any persons with one or more of these beliefs couldn't also be combined with an atheist or minimalist world view. So, I would say that to have a true congregation of atheists, there would HAVE to be a written criteria, or book to follow
@martinimix79 well, yeah since christianity has only existed for a little over 2,000 years...and I think I'd do a little more research on what marriage is supposed to "mean" in an official sense according to different cultures past and present.
@martinimix79 Absolutely not! However, congregating and raising money ARE key components in maintaining a religion. The part you didn't include is meeting those criteria under the interest of a common philosophical world view. My point in this is that people unwittingly supplant their discarded religion with atheism in way that is almost identical to practicing a religion. I see so often that their "morality" is still powered by what was learned through their religious culture, or religion.
I wish so bad that there was a place where all atheists could meet and discuss our morals and ideas! A place where on a certain date we could organize some activities for community service to show the community we're good people that believe in humanity! A place where we can pitch in donations to fund places like these for atheists around the world, and help further the leaps of science! heyyyyy wait a second....that sounds a bit like religion! lol this will happen one day, mark my words.
I like how atheists and the liberal controlled media gives the Westboro Church group the most publicity, so they can paint the false picture that all religious people are like that or are more prone to be like that. Westboro miscreants are actually a bunch of bible thumping Marxists/leftists. They def don't represent most religious and GOD loving people
@funk7000 We talk about Westboro because they are funny! I know they don't represent the majority of religious people but you're all just as wrong about the existence of God.
The other point is that if you really believe all the shit in the Bible then you WOULD act like (or similar to) the Westboro mob. They're at least consistent about their beliefs.
@funk7000 I don't think it's a scam at all. I believe that they believe what they say they believe. They are very consistent about what they promote and their beliefs are actually quite internally coherent (for a religion anyway)
I do think that they are trying to get sued a lot of the time but they are doing it in order to promote the word of God... which according to them is 'I hate you all!'
@TheOmegajuice Everything they do is a contradiction. they whole purpose is to draw law suits that they can make money off of. They don't believe in GOD, but they are using GOD to profit and make the right look bad. They use radical leftists Saul Alinsky tactics...this is a complete hoax and a scam that is meant to achieve 2 purposes; financial gain and a political divide and conquer strategy in favor of the far left loons.
@funk7000 Why do you think that they do not believe what they say?
You really think that they are more sincere about their political beliefs than their religious ones? I have no idea what political affiliation they have... they don't tend to publicise it... yet somehow they believe them more strongly than the religious crap that they shout from street corners all the time.
@TheOmegajuice Phelps is a registered Democrat. His family used to help finance Al Gore and directly helped him with his campaigning in their state back in 1988. His walk-around interview with Michael Moore, they acted very mild-mannered with each other. Every 1 of Phelps' family members except for maybe 4 (and the children of course) are lawyers. One day they're protesting against homosexuality and the next day they're protesting at funerals for fallen soldiers. Every thing is a contradiction
@funk7000 Ok, they are LEFT-winged religious nutters. Not a traditional affiliation but that doesn't mean that they have an especially inconsistent world-view.
I know that they are all lawyers and I already said that they clearly do a lot of their stuff to counter-sue.
This is all irrelevant anyway. Nobody considers the Phelps's to be typical Christians! There are plenty of stupid, crazy beliefs in moderate (and liberal) Christianity that we could criticise
A nation is only as strong as its citizens, and a lack of strong natural families weakens human, social, and moral capital, which in turn directly affects the financial (and thus indirectly the military and foreign policy strength) of a nation
I'm a gay Christian. But you have no idea how much I love athiests! You know why? Because I don't catch shit from them. And Jews! God, I love Jews! You know why? Because the majority of them make it a point that they don't exclude me from society. Only if you have been hated by the majority, can you appreciate the minority.
Of course we're not really talking about atheists versus Jews, Christians and Muslims. We're talking about social liberals versus social conservatives. Liberal Abrahamic religionists like yourself are generally going to want to interpret holy texts and religious figures in a more tolerant light than conservative ones. It might be a good idea for you to seek out the brilliant documentary 'Trembling Before G-d' as an introduction to homophobia in the traditional Jewish community.
Gay people have no right to get married; Allah has said in the greatest of all, the holy Quran that he made men for women and women for men. Men and men or women and women these are forbidden in the sight of the almighty. We should help our gay brothers and sister to find true love, men to women and women to men. May Allah the loving and merciful bless and guide them.
@nuberiffic Peace to you my friend, I’m only a student and can only give you my understanding of it. Muhammad (PBUH) never forced any child to do anything. All things which was done by the holy prophet, was done to protect the persecuted Muslims and to bring peace to the land. If you would like I could recommend someone better learned in these matters to help you. I’m afraid I might not be able give you the best guidance.
I have yet to see a single police report on a couple of gay men abusing the child under their care at home. Meanwhile, how many hetero dads rape their own children? hello? How many hetero Moms leave their babies in hot cars while they go get a perm? The family unit has collapsed not because of gay people... but because hetero couples today are becoming more and more lousy at parenting. Teenage pregnancy and prostitution are high in bible belt states. can't blame gays for that...
@MrRobertGulabo Well said. The 'gays' are just another boogeyman created by people to relieve themselves of all responsibility for the failings within their own families and communities.
@pigletized Marriage is no longer a strictly religious institution - gay people want to get married and be recognised by the law and have the legal rights. Marriage is more than just love, there are rights that go with it and every person should have access to those rights, no matter their gender or sexual preference (which is not a choice)
This has got to be the first time i disagree with this show.
Gay marriage = fine, ok
Gay marriage having KIDS = no.
Natural world works by male + female = kid, even in nature homosexuality is a defect - let's stop pretending that it's NORMAL. It's not normal, we don't have to make a big deal about it, but not bow down our heads to these guy either.
@cr4yv3n Um...I think you have downs? How again is homosexuality not normal? What IS NORMAL? What is the downside of homosexuals having kids? Because many many MANY studies have concluded that kids raised by gay couples end up JUST AS WELL as kids raised by straight couples...PLEASE, I'm dying to hear your arguments.
@cr4yv3n Woah woah woah. You just went Full retard. I'll address all of your ridiculous accusations. It wasn't just years of research by "Pro-gay" organizations. There are statements from the boards of: The American Medical association, The American Psychological Association, The American Psychoanalytical Association, and The American Board of Pediatrics, that there is NOTHING WRONG with being gay NOR is it a choice. It all has to do with genes, hormones and birth order.
@cr4yv3n Well obviously you haven't done a lot of research on the topic have you? How about you google "Research gay parenting" click on a few links. See what you find? Oh right. Generally its the same answers I'm telling you. There is no defect of gay parenting. Children DO NOT need both mother and father because there is no single trait that women and men do not have. And you're gonna whine about name calling? Good luck in the real world or the internet for that matter.
@Kevstar19 Just because the majority is now brainwashed to accept every liberal crap doesn't mean it's true.
We can see the effects of these "single parenting" habits already in the US where everything is fucked up.
Just because i don't agree with you, doesn't mean i am "ignorant" it just means i got a different opinion. Don't try your standards "agree with me or shut up" shit.
@cr4yv3n No no no. You see you ARE Ignorant because I'm giving you cold hard evidence of the reliance of gay parenting and how years of research along with statements from (The Medical Boards below) PROVE that gay parenting is perfectly fine. Gay parenting DOES NOT = Single parenting.
@GamingLeeLee first of all don't use words whose meaning you don't know.
2nd this is my own oppinion so you two clowns can suck me for all i care - i didn't ask you to believe what i believe, so don't fucking come here acting smart by supporting something you are clueless about but you support it "because it's trendy and cool".
@cr4yv3n lol oh dear I'm being patronised by a homophobic idiot? I am amused :)
I'm not in support of gay people and gay people being family people because "its trendy and cool" its because they are human beings with the same rights as the rest of us and because people like you need to be told just how backwards and pathetic you are.
Honestly how can people of your level of ignorance still exist this day and age?
@cr4yv3n aww bless no need for that. And nooo no you dont preach your views, I mean in one comment further down you were only coparing homosexuality to people with serious mental disorders...you dont preach at all and certainly not bullshit.
Dude come to the real world, your opinion based on what I've read so far is based on fantasy born of ignorance. Theres nothing that means gay people cant be parents and shouldnt be allowed kids....
@cr4yv3n Yes, the kid would suffer. By all those people who claim that gay marrage is bad and their children, who learned that gays are bad, will make sure that kids of gay parents will get a hard time. Self fulfilling prophecy it's called.
Briljant piece of thinking, well done. The only results of that struggle against gay marriage is that gay people will only be put even more in the corner then they already are. So yes, (gay) kids will suffer more, thanks to the religious right. Cheers.
@Kevstar19 - all these factors have given the result we see now.
You being brainwashed....well, most of the western world actually. Heterosexual relationships going down ( check google if you're so good at it, and see how the numbers dropped since 1980 ) and homosexual relations going up.
You just need to stop believing every crap you see - don't fucking look at biased sites and spew numbers at me please - see who is PAYING for the tests first then see the results.
>>Heterosexual relationships going down ( check google if you're so good at it, and see how the numbers dropped since 1980 ) and homosexual relations going up.
Since obviously marriage instances are increasing, due to population growth, you are most likely looking at percentages. Which OF COURSE would show homosexual relations going up, since more and more countries accept it. Conclusion: irrelevant.
>> But this is MY oppinion.
Of course, and they have theirs. It's their right.
@Kevstar19 That's the problem with you folks - you get some rights, you get more rights and now you wanna fuck us over after you've been given so much.
All groups given too many rights will start asking for more rights then they are trully entitled to.
And gay people already have it well in the US. After you get marriage you should shut up and live your life.
Want a kid? Well that's out of reach. Angry about it? Tough luck, go fight nature for making you that way but don't lash out here.
@Kevstar19 Actually i read some links about such research ( with an open mind , mind you ) and despite my sincere belief i couldn't help that MOST of them were payed by pro-gay groups and this made me angry to no end.
So not only they are agressive - they also falsify evidence now?
@Kevstar19 - not make it easier for gay couples to have ( have is a metaphor here as they cannot literally conceive ) children while heterosexual groups are left behind.
There's a limit that this movement, and by connection the feminist movement, must acknowledge exists. I find the idea of single-parenting by choice revolting both 'cause of its effects on the parent, state taxes and kid.
The same with same-sex couples.
Marriage is fine - i got no problems there , i even am a supporter of it.
@cr4yv3n Secondly, MAINTAIN POPULATION LEVELS? WHAT!? There's only about 5-10% chance that parents will have a gay child. AND IT'S BEEN THAT WAY FOREVER. Dude...you make the stupidest points I've ever seen. So you think my best friend's father (Who's wife died when the kids were young) IS WRONG TO RAISE THEM BY HIMSELF? Are you insane?
@Kevstar19 I said single parent by CHOICE - learn to read all my comment please.
The percentage is much higher - and it's growing.
I am not advocating the child will be gay because parents are gay - i am advocating the child needs a male role model as well as a female role model, not two mothers or two fathers.
2nd time you called me names - i am really starting to get vexed here....
I'm an Atheist and homosexuality DISGUST me. Being disgusted by homosexuals is an evolutionary response. Faggots coming around is a signal that straight men are not availabe for the opposite sex. Some pro gay atheists are trying to do exactly what they condemn and that's brainwash men to supress a natural feeling of disgust. Atheists are trying to indoctrinate people in a similar way that people have been indoctrinated to believe God exist.
@CharlieBoyCheckm nope, being and atheist is independent on your opinion on homosexuality. It's when you say "Atheists are trytin to indocrinate people in a similar way that peop... bla bla bla" that makes me think you're lying about being an atheist.
"bla bla bla" that makes me think you're lying about being an atheist.
gen77c":
It takes an atheist to observe other atheists who are demonstrating Christian like behavior. Christians wouldn't downplay themselves. Trying to convince people that gays are just like another race is trying to create a mass delusion. Preventing beauty pageant contestants from winning if they oppose gay marriage is like saying," If you don't believe this, youre going to hell"
In Finland, we have just on going battle about gay marriages. There are christian religious claims that tries to ban gay-marriages... I just wish that religios claims are ignored, because state has to make all sexes equal - not to catecorize them.
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Many atheists claim there's only religious arguments against gay marriage. This is false as there are secular arguments against gay marriage. You can do a google search and get a number of sites proposing anti gay marriage arguments from a secular perspective. One example is John Derbyshire's argument against gay marriage.
Furthermore, once again on these comments you have atheists proclaiming the glory and absoluteness of their scientific method and the results found through it. Anyone without similar results or who holds to religious faith produce results which are dictated by the latter; however, for many atheists, their findings, their scientific method is guided by materialism and naturalism, which are themselves faith based presuppositions.
*facepalm* You are the one making assumptions her buddy. Too bad for you, you lose. You do not know what atheist think or feel or are guided by. You only assume without presenting any evidence.
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@NathanWubs, grow up. It's doubtful you even read what I wrote; you just read my name, know I am Christian and went on your juvenile rant. See, what I said wasn't addressed to all atheists, but to the ignorant ones, and, yes, those of the "Atheist Experience" are ignorant.
No, I do not care that you a christian, it just means you are delusional about one thing. You have not presented any evidence for what you said in your first and second post. You just make claims without and logical evidence to back it up. So the evidence for your claims, before you make them. The biggest the claim the bigger the evidence. I did not have a juvenile rant I called you on your bs!
@Antibaryon , John Derbyshire, Adam Kolasinski, Margaret Somerville, among others, have made secular arguments against gay marriage. Kolasinski, for instance, argues homosexual relationships don't "serve the state interest of propagating society" therefore homosexuals don't deserve "the costly benefits of marriage."
@ChristianMission Would you let old people get married? Infertile couples? Would you set age standards for marriage? Compulsory fertility tests? And what are those "costly benefits"? You can still adopt and have sperm donors/replacement mothers.
@Antibaryon , like I said, that is Kolasinski's argument, not mine. The point was that you can have a secular argument against homosexual marriage, and his is 1 of them. Derbyshire has 6 secular arguments against homosexual marriage at the secular right webpage.
@ChristianMission The argument is bullshit and you're a coward to back up when you encounter resistance instead of fixing your argument or admitting it's bullshit.
Is there any evidence at all for what you're saying?
A child does not NEED a mother involved in raising them to grow up to be happy and healthy.
I love my dads very much and to propose that there's a necessary part of raising that can only come from a woman is offensive and, quite frankly, sexist.
Are you going to stop entirely missing the point of what ever i say and pontificating about scientific method, and then going to properly define your terms and put forward some kind of genuinely logical scientific argument?
Or are you going to admit that the statement that "any child not brought up by a mother but two men instead is in that way deprived" is an entirely valid proposition?.
The sexuality of all those concerned seems to be the essentially irrelevant detail that has confused you.
@suziecreamchease, deprived how? a lack of a maternal figure? from my experience with gay couples, there's a dominant figure and a submissive one (the one that takes it up the ass OMG), so I'm sure they'd both have their own roles, just like a mother and a father. I don't see how a mother is required to bring up a mother, just look at single parents.
I don't think your experience of gay couples is as relevant as anyone's experience as a child.
Like i said before, i would not want to have grown up without my own biological mother.. or failing that without a biological woman.
I don't think that i am unique in being a biological conservative.. it is how we have all evolved. (Political conservatism on the other hand is often a perversion of biological function and goes against positive pragmatism or thinking)
@suziecreamchease You should not compare it to the ideal, which is a man and a woman, but to an institution. Two dads are way better than an orphanage.
thats quite false. there is a secular argument against gay adoption, not that i agree with it at all. but there are secular ones. i agree there is no secular argument against gay marriage.
i do believe in equality for everyone and think all gays have a right to marry.
As a devout evolusionist i have absolutely no problem with a child having two mothers.. sounds like heaven to me..
but i have to confess that i am very uncomfortable with a child being actively taken away from its biological mother or not growing up with a female nurturer... which means that i thus do not like the idea of two male parents..
i think a mother has a right to give her child away but hope she will not.
Normally, I'd ask for evidence that two men are automatically, by dent of their sex, are not as able to raise children as a man and a women or two women, but something tells me this poster wouldn't know science or valid evidence if it bit her in the ass.
When I see terms "devout evolusionist," especially preceding fundie hotbuttons that have nothing to do with evolution, I instantly think "christian sock puppet." Only scientifically-illiterate religionists misunderstand evolution so completely.
So you're a communist? Is that supposed us think you're *not* an idiot?
And what, exactly, does consumerism have to do two men raising a child? Can you justify your point or are you, as so often happens with the deluded moonbat earth-mother wing of liberalism, just talking out your ass?
sorry you are still missing/ maybe actively avoiding every point that i am trying to make.
what seems to have gone over your head is that i am saying that all labels have limited meaning/value whether "christian" or "communist".
so i am uncomfortable with in the name of "gay rights" two men buying a child. same as in the name of "freedom" american military killing children. i am putting myself in the position of those children and thinking that i would not want to be bought or sold or killed.
Please explain why two men adopting a child are actually "buying" a child. That means provide some kind of evidence; don't just rely on Gaia's earth-wisdom to send a spirit animal and guide your feminine intuition.
maybe we are talking entirely at cross purposes here.
i am sure that where a child is unfortunately unwanted.. then two men gay or otherwise are preferable to being brought up in an institution.. and i think we would both be equally disgusted with the catholic church pontificating about them not being fit parents while priests themselves are fucking children.
my original comment was about the process by which gay men enter into a deal with a woman to have a child only in order to give it away.
If you're taking issue with surrogate motherhood, you've got an uphill fight on your hands. Straight couples have been using surrogate mothers forever. Perhaps even a few lesbian couples have, too.
It's more like you're changing the subject. You said being raised by two mothers would "sounds like heaven" but that you "do not like the idea of two male parents." Please explain this sexist contradiction and demonstrate, with citations, that two men are less able to raise a child.
well yes i knew from the start that i was laying myself open to being called homophobic or "sexist".
like i admitted early on.. i am deeply conservative. the fact is since the dawn of sex, females give birth to children, men do not. For countless thousands of years that is the primal relationship between children and that parent. And given a choice i would want at least one female parent.
If a woman takes a different view, and wants to give her child away, as i say that is entirely her choice
Now you are beginning to go down the same road as the crosstians "there is no evidence that god does not exist". Just no evidence that he does.
There is not yet much evidence that a child brought up without a mother is psychologically deprived. However, given that the whole history of human evolution rests on us all being brought up by our mothers - it would seem a tricky experiment/ foolish mistake .
We shall have to see how children brought up by two men and no mother thrive or otherwise.
IF there is evidence, present it. You can't of course, because like I said, you're relying on your feminine intuition, not rational thought.
According to the American Psychological Association, " Not a single study has found children of lesbian or gay parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents."
many crosstians have lost sight of responsibility for thinking for themselves and use belief in god/his plan to sheepishly stay on same path.. while athiesm can provide better opportunity to face reality and the challenge of developing and relying on our own values.
In your case, you have ended up believing in nothing and falling for anything.
PROOF is so far on my side of argument.
We do not need to look far to find that children taken from mother or not breast-fed do less well than others..
my understanding of a citation is it is a second hand experience that you hope has been reliably reported in order that by examining its Relevant details you can build up a scientific conclusion about reality.
but , i really think that you need to better understand the relevance and conclusion of a scientific report in the context of the evidence that it is based on.
As the experiment has not been done, there no PROOF that strapping bunny ears on a cat will not allow it to thrive without meat.
Information is only one half of the equation of making use of a study. Using an open and discriminating mind to question, disect and analyse it is the other half.
The problem here is not that i am ignorant. It is rather that you have religious faith in one aspect of the scientific process which unfortunately might blind you to properly or fully understanding what that process is.
Please tell which aspect/s of my definition of citation are in your opinion in any way wrong??
just fucking ban marriage... its a religious dumbass concept.
people are so indoctrinated by the abrahamic concept of marriage, they dont even question it at all.
the entire country, its laws and society is twisted by christianity, its obvious, and it makes you realise how evil and dangerous the old story book written by dumb uneducated desert people in fucking stoneage is
I'm not against gay marriage, but you're actring like the Church(es) never did anything good for this country. Are you forgetting the key role it playing in abolitionism in the early nineteenth century, Progressivism in the early twentieth century, and the Civil Rights movement?
the beginning of this video is kinda funny now after an interracial couple was denied a marriage license here in Louisiana by a justice of the peace because he said interracial couples break apart and it is hard for the kids
A butch Dyke and a Kike. Wow I'm sure it will be a very non-partial discussion.
999YORK 2 weeks ago
@999YORK So why don't you go and listen to a discussion you like by "non-dykes" and "non-kikes"...and keep your offensive comments to yourself? No one's forcing you to listen to it.
samanthajayable 2 weeks ago
sorry, you are mistake. ;Christians certainly have a concept of what constitutes truth, morality & the social good-just as you. These beliefs are expressed in all manner of good actions including feeding the hungry, aiding the poor, caring for widows and orphans, missions, opposing evil wars, social oppressions, and building hospitals and schools among many other endeavors. There is real good & evil & maybe it's your conscience bothered by certain behaviors. God rules our eternal destinies
shieldsff 4 months ago
@shieldsff Everything you said contradicts itself in the Christian Bible. Anyone can do those good things and even better than Christians, you know why? Because people without a God can feed the hungry, and house the homeless, without making them sit through a sermon and saying "God loves you, and he has a plan for you."
handsup48 2 months ago
@handsup48 thanks for replying, but I can't identify anywhere where I asserted they do not... What I was stating if you will allow is that we do these things in others in the name of Christ Jesus and to the glory of God the Father. If you engage in charity and do good deeds and charity good and well and please don;t stop. Jesus, however, makes clear that the Love of God is in Him and that the only way to have true peace, righteousness and knowledge of God is by trusting in Him, Jesus
shieldsff 1 month ago
@shieldsff You don't have to be good to get the love of God or to get to Heaven (Which is what it sounds like you're implying, I can't really understand your words) you can rape, murder, and steal, but before death repent, and your "Soul is saved"
handsup48 1 month ago
I would suggest that you not make any of those things a fact which appears on your obituary.... as for "repenting before death, etc...", possibly, but that is completely in the providence of the Lord. Moreover in the event one suffers sudden death such as from a transportation accident or cardiac arrest there may very well not be any opportunity whatsoever to make the so-called "provisional" repentance to which you refer.To pass into eternal willfully rejecting Jesus is to die in sin
shieldsff 1 month ago
@shieldsff But that still leaves room for being evil all around and getting to Heaven, that is wrong and messed up, God ain't great it sounds like
handsup48 1 month ago
@handsup48 - no not at all.... have you read the Bible ? Take a look at the letter of Romans. It makes quite clear that having active faith in Jesus Christ transforms a person's entire life, outlook and being in time and eternity. This supernatural power (the life of the Spirit) makes the person alive to their Creator and (in the final reckoning and end of time and history) dispels and overcomes ALL the evils and unrighteousness of the temporal world and fallen human nature.
shieldsff 1 month ago
@shieldsff Turns out that not everyone has active faith in Jesus, and there is still evil. And even people who have had active faith in Jesus caused great harm. So what point are you trying to prove?
handsup48 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have succeeded at framing themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
lightandbeautiful 5 months ago
@BiblePreacher889 how do we oppose the will of God? if God really hated us, he'd have wiped us out long ago. or not made us in the first place. makes no sense that he made us, then purposely made his followers into hate-filled doucheholes to hassle us.
seems like kind of a round-about way of getting stuff done to me.
Stevie2Sxc 7 months ago
@phatso1986 your definitely gay! All you talk about is ass and dick!
broomhall23 7 months ago
@biblepreacher889 yes we know 'god' hates us,but do you? That what I fuckin hate about you assholes, why don't you strap on a pair and just say it , ' we hate gay people' ! When you say 'god' hates us, it's means NOTHING! You have just been a victim of religion where you don't have a single thought in your head that's your own!! And god isn't real! Grow the fuck up buttmunch!
broomhall23 7 months ago
@BiblePreacher889 then I guess it's a good thing your god isn't real
choongd 8 months ago
@BiblePreacher889 You just hate. It's what gets you up in the morning. You particularly hate anybody who isn't as stupid as you are.
khote14 8 months ago
I'm sorry I just hate how both hosts had fun with this song. Thinking about how children learn and sing something like that made me really sick to my stomach.
Penetal 8 months ago
@BiblePreacher889 Then can you please help me in destorying all polyester and protesting infront of red lobster. Please let your irrational, idiot, hate show your true evil, backward nature so we can, as a society, write you off as irrelevant and move on.
deadmouse217 8 months ago
I believe in minding my business, whom ever wants to be together is their business, but I do have one question. This is not meant to be disrespectful at all; I was in a forum and the topic gay marriage came up ,and someone mentioned that if this were to happen, then sex ed class will have to rightly include gay sex. Is this true?
ummabdurrahman1 8 months ago
I think that the majority of dislikes here are due to the singing intro;.... it's a full minute long!!! Get rid of it! At least don't have a full minute intro on every part of this episode. -.-
hack451 9 months ago
Christians are sad people filled with hate.
choongd 9 months ago 10
@choongd Christians are happy people filled with structure and morals to in their life. You don't realize how critical the church is to the U.S. I think it's funny how churches feed most of the poor, marry the most people, provide the most advice and much more.
DannyBISFAJohnson 6 months ago
@DannyBISFAJohnson "You don't realize how critical the church is to the U.S" If this is true...how come the conservative states have the lowest literacy rates, the lowest educational levels, the lowest rates for salaries and the highest teen pregnancy rates? And if you look at any statistics on Meth use, DUI's, crime conservative states rank really high up there. It's also fairly common to have religious and preacher's kids be the first to use drugs or get knocked up.
MrRobertGulabo 6 months ago
Religion does indeed do some good things... aiding poor, etc. But then, they've also been involved in some really awful stuff... people today don't want to recall slavery (people quoted the bible before the civil war to justify the practice), the inquisition (not us, the Spaniards did that--oh sure), religious wars (yes, even today, this happens)... The list is long and endless... Joshuah is celebrated but I have to say, he's a war criminal no better than Slobodan Milosevic.
MrRobertGulabo 6 months ago
Whether it's a suicide bomber or a gay hater, or slaver, or an inquisitionist, or a war criminal like Joshuah, Milosevich, Gadhafi, they all... ALL have one common mantra for justifying what regular folks consider evil acts: "God says it's OK and he blesses my actions therefore what I do is righteous in his eyes." Granted, hating gays isn't as atrocious as murdering 1,000 people, but whether you steal land that God says is his gift to you or you form cliques that exclude people... same idea.
MrRobertGulabo 6 months ago 2
@martinimix79 LoL the bible also says that a pregnant woman will appear on the moon in the last days, and a dragon will appear shortly after to eat her soon to be born baby who will rule the world. This is the problem with "atheism". Everyone thinks that because they're atheist, they're a genius. And anyone who shows any interest in religion MUST be religious. To all atheists, religion = christianity. Its fucking moronic. Following atheism requires no more intelligence than following a religion
mackles 10 months ago
@mackles Please don't make assumptions. Not about marriage (which I found wrong with a few minutes of research), where others get their morals (I can go into full detail why my morals are based on logic and rationality), and what others think. Some atheists may attack christianity, and this happens for many reasons. Because they are attacked, because they live in countries where they are the majority, and often it's just the funnest one to pick apart.
Seraph821 9 months ago
@Seraph821 Honestly, I don't see why I should have to feel like shit, just because I call myself an "atheist", when all it means is I don't believe in a god. You're attitude just... bugs me xP
Fuck, Matt, and most of the hosts on the show, are incredibly interested in religion. None of their viewers assume they are religious. Just because one or a few have assumed so of you doesn't mean you have to start looping everyone into a big group of "morons" and start telling us how stupid we are.
Seraph821 9 months ago
@martinimix79 To clarify, I'm not christian. The fact that there is no god is a no-brainer, there is no need for argument. I see the good use of religion, and of course I see its bad. But you made my point: society evolves from holy script. Yes. Exactly. You were raised by religious parents, in a religious country - as unpleasant as it may seem - your morals are religious. All of your ideas of right or wrong stem from scripture. All of humanity's roots are in religion, I think thats fascinating.
mackles 10 months ago
@martinimix79 Again, marriage is cultural. Marriage isn't exclusive to social recognition, legal status or any other understanding of it you might have - these are westen practices. Besides all of this, what's most hilarious is that marriage is a product of religious practice. Marriage exists because of religion. Only after the reformation did religion become separate from state. And STILL, you'd be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't have a wedding ceremony reminiscent of a religion one
mackles 10 months ago
@martinimix79 I didn't notice these posts, so I'll address them in short: Religion is no comparison to women's rights or civil rights - Those are cultural, and incredibly recent in history; Religion, however, has existed as long as humanity's ability to communicate with symbols, and can be found in the history of every civilization on earth. Religion is a massive power that isn't summed only by christianity, so don't be so fast to treat it as such.
mackles 10 months ago
@martinimix79 The point I'm making is that this idea of community in atheism that joins people together in common interest of a world view is clearly the early progressive idea of forming a type of religion - only under a different label! In reality, its a groups devotion to what they believe to be truth. That's religion! By the way, I don't believe in god. I identify as a minimalist - when we die, we die = this life is all we have. Free thinking is also humility, all I hear is hate for piety.
mackles 10 months ago
@martinimix79 Well, an athesist can't believe in a god right? An atheist can't believe in a divine creation, disembodied spirits, practices that connect a physical body with a spiritual realm, or divine power concentrated in item, locations, or building right? Any persons with one or more of these beliefs couldn't also be combined with an atheist or minimalist world view. So, I would say that to have a true congregation of atheists, there would HAVE to be a written criteria, or book to follow
mackles 10 months ago
@martinimix79 well, yeah since christianity has only existed for a little over 2,000 years...and I think I'd do a little more research on what marriage is supposed to "mean" in an official sense according to different cultures past and present.
mackles 10 months ago
@martinimix79 Absolutely not! However, congregating and raising money ARE key components in maintaining a religion. The part you didn't include is meeting those criteria under the interest of a common philosophical world view. My point in this is that people unwittingly supplant their discarded religion with atheism in way that is almost identical to practicing a religion. I see so often that their "morality" is still powered by what was learned through their religious culture, or religion.
mackles 10 months ago
Marriage is meant to be for procreation!
dirtdemon6 10 months ago
I wish so bad that there was a place where all atheists could meet and discuss our morals and ideas! A place where on a certain date we could organize some activities for community service to show the community we're good people that believe in humanity! A place where we can pitch in donations to fund places like these for atheists around the world, and help further the leaps of science! heyyyyy wait a second....that sounds a bit like religion! lol this will happen one day, mark my words.
mackles 11 months ago
@mackles
Praise Science!
VigilanteNighthawk 11 months ago
God's imaginary, Gay is real.
hate the gays love your god right? nice consideration of reality.
wetdream09 1 year ago
@wetdream09
pedophiles, necrophiles, coprophiles, etc. are real too
let's promote their perversion as well
phatso1986 1 year ago
@phatso1986 cause CONSENSUAL sex between two adults is the same thing as those...yeaahhhhhh....
brianlover926 11 months ago
@brianlover926
necrophilia and coprophilia can can involve two CONSENTING adults
unless you believe inanimate objects need to consent (which wouldn't suprise me seeing how ridiculous homosexuals' arguments are)
phatso1986 11 months ago
@wetdream09
reality:
Shit hole --->> uesd to expel shit
yet you faggots take it up the ass
i wouldn't doubt that you fuckers suck that dick off when its full of shit
phatso1986 11 months ago
@phatso1986
that's a pretty graphic comment.. having fantasies lately?
wouldn't doubt it.
wetdream09 11 months ago
@wetdream09
a homo trying to insult me by calling me faggot
nice
phatso1986 11 months ago
@phatso1986
i call it how i see it.
wetdream09 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Westboro Baptist Church
ddbd 1 year ago
I keep thinking that maybe we should just let the religious people have the word 'marriage'
In the U.K. gay marriage is referred to as 'civil partnership' and apart from the name there is no difference (as far as I know)
A lot of the arguments seen to want to cling to the word, Why not let the Christians have it?
TheOmegajuice 1 year ago
I like how atheists and the liberal controlled media gives the Westboro Church group the most publicity, so they can paint the false picture that all religious people are like that or are more prone to be like that. Westboro miscreants are actually a bunch of bible thumping Marxists/leftists. They def don't represent most religious and GOD loving people
funk7000 1 year ago
Comment removed
TheOmegajuice 1 year ago
@funk7000 We talk about Westboro because they are funny! I know they don't represent the majority of religious people but you're all just as wrong about the existence of God.
The other point is that if you really believe all the shit in the Bible then you WOULD act like (or similar to) the Westboro mob. They're at least consistent about their beliefs.
TheOmegajuice 1 year ago
@TheOmegajuice Like I said, their whole "bible thumping" rioting is a scam and a fraud
funk7000 1 year ago
@funk7000 I don't think it's a scam at all. I believe that they believe what they say they believe. They are very consistent about what they promote and their beliefs are actually quite internally coherent (for a religion anyway)
I do think that they are trying to get sued a lot of the time but they are doing it in order to promote the word of God... which according to them is 'I hate you all!'
TheOmegajuice 1 year ago
@TheOmegajuice Everything they do is a contradiction. they whole purpose is to draw law suits that they can make money off of. They don't believe in GOD, but they are using GOD to profit and make the right look bad. They use radical leftists Saul Alinsky tactics...this is a complete hoax and a scam that is meant to achieve 2 purposes; financial gain and a political divide and conquer strategy in favor of the far left loons.
funk7000 1 year ago
@funk7000 Why do you think that they do not believe what they say?
You really think that they are more sincere about their political beliefs than their religious ones? I have no idea what political affiliation they have... they don't tend to publicise it... yet somehow they believe them more strongly than the religious crap that they shout from street corners all the time.
TheOmegajuice 1 year ago
@TheOmegajuice Phelps is a registered Democrat. His family used to help finance Al Gore and directly helped him with his campaigning in their state back in 1988. His walk-around interview with Michael Moore, they acted very mild-mannered with each other. Every 1 of Phelps' family members except for maybe 4 (and the children of course) are lawyers. One day they're protesting against homosexuality and the next day they're protesting at funerals for fallen soldiers. Every thing is a contradiction
funk7000 1 year ago
@funk7000 Ok, they are LEFT-winged religious nutters. Not a traditional affiliation but that doesn't mean that they have an especially inconsistent world-view.
I know that they are all lawyers and I already said that they clearly do a lot of their stuff to counter-sue.
This is all irrelevant anyway. Nobody considers the Phelps's to be typical Christians! There are plenty of stupid, crazy beliefs in moderate (and liberal) Christianity that we could criticise
TheOmegajuice 1 year ago
@TheOmegajuice the phelp's are right-winged christians, sorry.
FlyinSpaghettiMnstr7 1 year ago
@funk7000 Are all polerising religious figures part of this reverse psychology left-wing conspiracy or just the Phelpses?
TheOmegajuice 1 year ago
A nation is only as strong as its citizens, and a lack of strong natural families weakens human, social, and moral capital, which in turn directly affects the financial (and thus indirectly the military and foreign policy strength) of a nation
funk7000 1 year ago
I'm a gay Christian. But you have no idea how much I love athiests! You know why? Because I don't catch shit from them. And Jews! God, I love Jews! You know why? Because the majority of them make it a point that they don't exclude me from society. Only if you have been hated by the majority, can you appreciate the minority.
cheerwine01 1 year ago
@cheerwine01
Of course we're not really talking about atheists versus Jews, Christians and Muslims. We're talking about social liberals versus social conservatives. Liberal Abrahamic religionists like yourself are generally going to want to interpret holy texts and religious figures in a more tolerant light than conservative ones. It might be a good idea for you to seek out the brilliant documentary 'Trembling Before G-d' as an introduction to homophobia in the traditional Jewish community.
TheConciseStatement 1 year ago
These atheists are dumb ass hell. I'm an atheist but I"m much smarter than these idiots. They're just a bunch of queers.
StraightAtheists 1 year ago
Gay people have no right to get married; Allah has said in the greatest of all, the holy Quran that he made men for women and women for men. Men and men or women and women these are forbidden in the sight of the almighty. We should help our gay brothers and sister to find true love, men to women and women to men. May Allah the loving and merciful bless and guide them.
IslamandQuran2trutha 1 year ago
@IslamandQuran2trutha so should we all follow in the footsteps of muhammed and force multiple pre teen girls into marriage (rape)?
nuberiffic 1 year ago
@nuberiffic Peace to you my friend, I’m only a student and can only give you my understanding of it. Muhammad (PBUH) never forced any child to do anything. All things which was done by the holy prophet, was done to protect the persecuted Muslims and to bring peace to the land. If you would like I could recommend someone better learned in these matters to help you. I’m afraid I might not be able give you the best guidance.
IslamandQuran2trutha 1 year ago
@IslamandQuran2trutha but does the quran or at least islam teach the institutionised and religiously sanctioned constitutional rape of young girls?
nuberiffic 1 year ago
@IslamandQuran2trutha
lol i hooked up with an Islam guy..
wetdream09 1 year ago
I have yet to see a single police report on a couple of gay men abusing the child under their care at home. Meanwhile, how many hetero dads rape their own children? hello? How many hetero Moms leave their babies in hot cars while they go get a perm? The family unit has collapsed not because of gay people... but because hetero couples today are becoming more and more lousy at parenting. Teenage pregnancy and prostitution are high in bible belt states. can't blame gays for that...
MrRobertGulabo 1 year ago 14
@MrRobertGulabo Well said. The 'gays' are just another boogeyman created by people to relieve themselves of all responsibility for the failings within their own families and communities.
nummulite99 6 months ago
Comment removed
pigletized 1 year ago
@pigletized Marriage is no longer a strictly religious institution - gay people want to get married and be recognised by the law and have the legal rights. Marriage is more than just love, there are rights that go with it and every person should have access to those rights, no matter their gender or sexual preference (which is not a choice)
bettenoir87 1 year ago
@bettenoir87 I see. Ithink it's legal almost everwhere now.
pigletized 1 year ago
Tracie made an awesome argument! "If everyone was female the population would die out. That doesn't make being a female immoral"
TheAndyLoraProgram 1 year ago
That song fucking creeps me out, you can hear the evil in their voices. Fucking westboro...
GuacamoleKun 1 year ago
russell you're cute ;)
jasontrail 1 year ago
This has got to be the first time i disagree with this show.
Gay marriage = fine, ok
Gay marriage having KIDS = no.
Natural world works by male + female = kid, even in nature homosexuality is a defect - let's stop pretending that it's NORMAL. It's not normal, we don't have to make a big deal about it, but not bow down our heads to these guy either.
Enough is enough.
cr4yv3n 1 year ago
@cr4yv3n Um...I think you have downs? How again is homosexuality not normal? What IS NORMAL? What is the downside of homosexuals having kids? Because many many MANY studies have concluded that kids raised by gay couples end up JUST AS WELL as kids raised by straight couples...PLEASE, I'm dying to hear your arguments.
Kevstar19 1 year ago
@Kevstar19
The natural function of sex is to have offsprings. Gay couples cannot have them thereby making them by defaylt a flawed 'sex team'.
Marriage does not involve reproduction - it is only an acknowledgment of a pair's love - hardly necessary in my opinion by not problematic is desired.
Yes i have seen those so called 'studies' also and they are made by pro-gay NGOs.
Besides the point is to create more offsprings out of heterosexual families to maintain population at stable levels -
cr4yv3n 1 year ago
@cr4yv3n Woah woah woah. You just went Full retard. I'll address all of your ridiculous accusations. It wasn't just years of research by "Pro-gay" organizations. There are statements from the boards of: The American Medical association, The American Psychological Association, The American Psychoanalytical Association, and The American Board of Pediatrics, that there is NOTHING WRONG with being gay NOR is it a choice. It all has to do with genes, hormones and birth order.
Kevstar19 1 year ago
@Kevstar19 I can stop replying if you're going to start calling me names - i'm not really forced to stand here and listen to your crap.
I haven't seen any scientific evidence showing being gay is a genetical effect - can you give me some links?
cr4yv3n 1 year ago
@cr4yv3n Well obviously you haven't done a lot of research on the topic have you? How about you google "Research gay parenting" click on a few links. See what you find? Oh right. Generally its the same answers I'm telling you. There is no defect of gay parenting. Children DO NOT need both mother and father because there is no single trait that women and men do not have. And you're gonna whine about name calling? Good luck in the real world or the internet for that matter.
Kevstar19 1 year ago
@Kevstar19 Just because the majority is now brainwashed to accept every liberal crap doesn't mean it's true.
We can see the effects of these "single parenting" habits already in the US where everything is fucked up.
Just because i don't agree with you, doesn't mean i am "ignorant" it just means i got a different opinion. Don't try your standards "agree with me or shut up" shit.
cr4yv3n 1 year ago
@cr4yv3n No no no. You see you ARE Ignorant because I'm giving you cold hard evidence of the reliance of gay parenting and how years of research along with statements from (The Medical Boards below) PROVE that gay parenting is perfectly fine. Gay parenting DOES NOT = Single parenting.
Kevstar19 1 year ago
@Kevstar19 It's the same thing.
Ok i'll put it another way.
Here's this eprson, who has a genetical disease that causes him to be mentally unstable. Is he allowed to have children, or even raise them?
It's not his choice, right? But we don't allow him/her to raise children because he is not acting "normal".
So why should we allow a gay person - who sorry to say is NOT acting, naturally speaking, normal raise children?
Also you seem to not get teh big picture here:
cr4yv3n 1 year ago
@cr4yv3n very sad very ignorant little boy...
GamingLeeLee 1 year ago
@GamingLeeLee first of all don't use words whose meaning you don't know.
2nd this is my own oppinion so you two clowns can suck me for all i care - i didn't ask you to believe what i believe, so don't fucking come here acting smart by supporting something you are clueless about but you support it "because it's trendy and cool".
Good day!
cr4yv3n 1 year ago
@cr4yv3n lol oh dear I'm being patronised by a homophobic idiot? I am amused :)
I'm not in support of gay people and gay people being family people because "its trendy and cool" its because they are human beings with the same rights as the rest of us and because people like you need to be told just how backwards and pathetic you are.
Honestly how can people of your level of ignorance still exist this day and age?
GamingLeeLee 1 year ago
@GamingLeeLee Keep being amused, like all idiots.
I don't mind homosexual relations i just don't think them having children is right.
But this is MY oppinion, got that you dumb fuck?
And no matter what YOU think, I will still have my oppinion.
I don't preach my views...unlike you.
cr4yv3n 1 year ago
@cr4yv3n aww bless no need for that. And nooo no you dont preach your views, I mean in one comment further down you were only coparing homosexuality to people with serious mental disorders...you dont preach at all and certainly not bullshit.
Dude come to the real world, your opinion based on what I've read so far is based on fantasy born of ignorance. Theres nothing that means gay people cant be parents and shouldnt be allowed kids....
GamingLeeLee 1 year ago
@GamingLeeLee The kid is one of the things that may have to do with this thing you propose.
As i said as long as both parties agree - marriage is between themselves, their right to happiness.
Once you involve the kid you automatically CHOOSE for him a special family.
As the results in California went - most people don't see this as normal so the kid would suffer.
I rather not take the chance.
Surely some parts of the world would need more gay liberty, but some already have too much of it imo.
cr4yv3n 1 year ago
@cr4yv3n Yes, the kid would suffer. By all those people who claim that gay marrage is bad and their children, who learned that gays are bad, will make sure that kids of gay parents will get a hard time. Self fulfilling prophecy it's called.
Briljant piece of thinking, well done. The only results of that struggle against gay marriage is that gay people will only be put even more in the corner then they already are. So yes, (gay) kids will suffer more, thanks to the religious right. Cheers.
Ranokian 1 year ago
@GamingLeeLee Oh and spare me the sarcasm plz, you can do better than that...
cr4yv3n 1 year ago
@cr4yv3n youre not exactly an infinite supply of wit yourself dude
GamingLeeLee 1 year ago
@GamingLeeLee At least i don't try to look bigger than i am :)
cr4yv3n 1 year ago
@Kevstar19 - all these factors have given the result we see now.
You being brainwashed....well, most of the western world actually. Heterosexual relationships going down ( check google if you're so good at it, and see how the numbers dropped since 1980 ) and homosexual relations going up.
You just need to stop believing every crap you see - don't fucking look at biased sites and spew numbers at me please - see who is PAYING for the tests first then see the results.
cr4yv3n 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@cr4yv3n
>>Heterosexual relationships going down ( check google if you're so good at it, and see how the numbers dropped since 1980 ) and homosexual relations going up.
Since obviously marriage instances are increasing, due to population growth, you are most likely looking at percentages. Which OF COURSE would show homosexual relations going up, since more and more countries accept it. Conclusion: irrelevant.
>> But this is MY oppinion.
Of course, and they have theirs. It's their right.
gininginin 1 year ago
@Kevstar19 That's the problem with you folks - you get some rights, you get more rights and now you wanna fuck us over after you've been given so much.
All groups given too many rights will start asking for more rights then they are trully entitled to.
And gay people already have it well in the US. After you get marriage you should shut up and live your life.
Want a kid? Well that's out of reach. Angry about it? Tough luck, go fight nature for making you that way but don't lash out here.
cr4yv3n 1 year ago
@cr4yv3n Wow...we're done talking...you need help dude...you need some big help...You are just a paranoid lunatic. Good luck bud...You need it.
Kevstar19 1 year ago
@cr4yv3n You're a sad, strange little man.
letsgetthisoverwith 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@letsgetthisoverwith If you say so...
cr4yv3n 1 year ago
@cr4yv3n And this research isn't from random Pro gay groups. This research is FROM THOUSANDS OF DOCTORS. Come on dude...Think about it.
Kevstar19 1 year ago
@Kevstar19 Actually i read some links about such research ( with an open mind , mind you ) and despite my sincere belief i couldn't help that MOST of them were payed by pro-gay groups and this made me angry to no end.
So not only they are agressive - they also falsify evidence now?
Wtf these guys are as bad as religious nuts !
cr4yv3n 1 year ago
@Kevstar19 - not make it easier for gay couples to have ( have is a metaphor here as they cannot literally conceive ) children while heterosexual groups are left behind.
There's a limit that this movement, and by connection the feminist movement, must acknowledge exists. I find the idea of single-parenting by choice revolting both 'cause of its effects on the parent, state taxes and kid.
The same with same-sex couples.
Marriage is fine - i got no problems there , i even am a supporter of it.
cr4yv3n 1 year ago
@cr4yv3n Secondly, MAINTAIN POPULATION LEVELS? WHAT!? There's only about 5-10% chance that parents will have a gay child. AND IT'S BEEN THAT WAY FOREVER. Dude...you make the stupidest points I've ever seen. So you think my best friend's father (Who's wife died when the kids were young) IS WRONG TO RAISE THEM BY HIMSELF? Are you insane?
Kevstar19 1 year ago
@Kevstar19 I said single parent by CHOICE - learn to read all my comment please.
The percentage is much higher - and it's growing.
I am not advocating the child will be gay because parents are gay - i am advocating the child needs a male role model as well as a female role model, not two mothers or two fathers.
2nd time you called me names - i am really starting to get vexed here....
cr4yv3n 1 year ago
@cr4yv3n And if you don't wanna listen to my "Crap" then so be it. Continue to remain ignorant for your life. I could not care any less.
Kevstar19 1 year ago
I'm an Atheist and homosexuality DISGUST me. Being disgusted by homosexuals is an evolutionary response. Faggots coming around is a signal that straight men are not availabe for the opposite sex. Some pro gay atheists are trying to do exactly what they condemn and that's brainwash men to supress a natural feeling of disgust. Atheists are trying to indoctrinate people in a similar way that people have been indoctrinated to believe God exist.
CharlieBoyCheckm 1 year ago
@CharlieBoyCheckm you're an atheist in the same way I'm a banana,
gen77c 1 year ago
@gen77c
" you're an atheist in the same way I'm a banana"
If you think the only way to be an atheist is to pretend that gays are not malfunctioned, you are more delusional than fundamentalist christians
CharlieBoyCheckm 1 year ago
@CharlieBoyCheckm nope, being and atheist is independent on your opinion on homosexuality. It's when you say "Atheists are trytin to indocrinate people in a similar way that peop... bla bla bla" that makes me think you're lying about being an atheist.
gen77c 1 year ago
@gen77c
"bla bla bla" that makes me think you're lying about being an atheist.
gen77c":
It takes an atheist to observe other atheists who are demonstrating Christian like behavior. Christians wouldn't downplay themselves. Trying to convince people that gays are just like another race is trying to create a mass delusion. Preventing beauty pageant contestants from winning if they oppose gay marriage is like saying," If you don't believe this, youre going to hell"
CharlieBoyCheckm 1 year ago
That song is from a church..omg...wtf?
ncPsychosis 1 year ago
those Baptists... :)
heavenlyangelsrhere 1 year ago
@heavenlyangelsrhere
Yeah, one hell of a disturbing song.
Only by WBC I guess, trademarked.
Azotadeth 1 year ago
In Finland, we have just on going battle about gay marriages. There are christian religious claims that tries to ban gay-marriages... I just wish that religios claims are ignored, because state has to make all sexes equal - not to catecorize them.
karrpoff 2 years ago 10
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Many atheists claim there's only religious arguments against gay marriage. This is false as there are secular arguments against gay marriage. You can do a google search and get a number of sites proposing anti gay marriage arguments from a secular perspective. One example is John Derbyshire's argument against gay marriage.
ChristianMission 2 years ago
Furthermore, once again on these comments you have atheists proclaiming the glory and absoluteness of their scientific method and the results found through it. Anyone without similar results or who holds to religious faith produce results which are dictated by the latter; however, for many atheists, their findings, their scientific method is guided by materialism and naturalism, which are themselves faith based presuppositions.
ChristianMission 2 years ago
*facepalm* You are the one making assumptions her buddy. Too bad for you, you lose. You do not know what atheist think or feel or are guided by. You only assume without presenting any evidence.
NathanWubs 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@NathanWubs, grow up. It's doubtful you even read what I wrote; you just read my name, know I am Christian and went on your juvenile rant. See, what I said wasn't addressed to all atheists, but to the ignorant ones, and, yes, those of the "Atheist Experience" are ignorant.
ChristianMission 2 years ago
No, I do not care that you a christian, it just means you are delusional about one thing. You have not presented any evidence for what you said in your first and second post. You just make claims without and logical evidence to back it up. So the evidence for your claims, before you make them. The biggest the claim the bigger the evidence. I did not have a juvenile rant I called you on your bs!
NathanWubs 2 years ago
That you cannot handle that, that is your problem not mine.
NathanWubs 2 years ago
These atheists are morons, don't judge us on our minority that obviously jump to conclusions without thinking. Peace!
MIGS1989 2 years ago
there literally isn't a secular argument. if you're talking about sex in nature, there's homosexuality there as well.
eldeberry 1 year ago
To be a secular argument it just needs to be separate from religion, and there are many such arguments against homosexual marriage.
ChristianMission 1 year ago
really? i'm curious.. give me one
Zuurkool1 1 year ago
@ChristianMission Such as?
Antibaryon 1 year ago
@Antibaryon , John Derbyshire, Adam Kolasinski, Margaret Somerville, among others, have made secular arguments against gay marriage. Kolasinski, for instance, argues homosexual relationships don't "serve the state interest of propagating society" therefore homosexuals don't deserve "the costly benefits of marriage."
ChristianMission 1 year ago
@ChristianMission Would you let old people get married? Infertile couples? Would you set age standards for marriage? Compulsory fertility tests? And what are those "costly benefits"? You can still adopt and have sperm donors/replacement mothers.
Antibaryon 1 year ago
@Antibaryon , like I said, that is Kolasinski's argument, not mine. The point was that you can have a secular argument against homosexual marriage, and his is 1 of them. Derbyshire has 6 secular arguments against homosexual marriage at the secular right webpage.
ChristianMission 1 year ago
@ChristianMission The argument is bullshit and you're a coward to back up when you encounter resistance instead of fixing your argument or admitting it's bullshit.
Antibaryon 1 year ago
@suziecreamchease
Is there any evidence at all for what you're saying?
A child does not NEED a mother involved in raising them to grow up to be happy and healthy.
I love my dads very much and to propose that there's a necessary part of raising that can only come from a woman is offensive and, quite frankly, sexist.
blackplatypus 2 years ago 5
Are you going to stop entirely missing the point of what ever i say and pontificating about scientific method, and then going to properly define your terms and put forward some kind of genuinely logical scientific argument?
Or are you going to admit that the statement that "any child not brought up by a mother but two men instead is in that way deprived" is an entirely valid proposition?.
The sexuality of all those concerned seems to be the essentially irrelevant detail that has confused you.
suziecreamchease 2 years ago
@suziecreamchease, deprived how? a lack of a maternal figure? from my experience with gay couples, there's a dominant figure and a submissive one (the one that takes it up the ass OMG), so I'm sure they'd both have their own roles, just like a mother and a father. I don't see how a mother is required to bring up a mother, just look at single parents.
you don't really have a case.
eldeberry 1 year ago
I don't think your experience of gay couples is as relevant as anyone's experience as a child.
Like i said before, i would not want to have grown up without my own biological mother.. or failing that without a biological woman.
I don't think that i am unique in being a biological conservative.. it is how we have all evolved. (Political conservatism on the other hand is often a perversion of biological function and goes against positive pragmatism or thinking)
Most single parents are mothers.
suziecreamchease 1 year ago
i don't think your experience with your biological mother is relevant.
eldeberry 1 year ago
@suziecreamchease You should not compare it to the ideal, which is a man and a woman, but to an institution. Two dads are way better than an orphanage.
trueleroix 1 year ago
@trueleroix
if you had read my all my comments ..
you would have read that is exactly what i said..
my issue is entirely with paying a woman to give birth to a child only in order to give it away..
suziecreamchease 1 year ago
thats quite false. there is a secular argument against gay adoption, not that i agree with it at all. but there are secular ones. i agree there is no secular argument against gay marriage.
Menla1 2 years ago
i do believe in equality for everyone and think all gays have a right to marry.
As a devout evolusionist i have absolutely no problem with a child having two mothers.. sounds like heaven to me..
but i have to confess that i am very uncomfortable with a child being actively taken away from its biological mother or not growing up with a female nurturer... which means that i thus do not like the idea of two male parents..
i think a mother has a right to give her child away but hope she will not.
suziecreamchease 2 years ago
Normally, I'd ask for evidence that two men are automatically, by dent of their sex, are not as able to raise children as a man and a women or two women, but something tells me this poster wouldn't know science or valid evidence if it bit her in the ass.
When I see terms "devout evolusionist," especially preceding fundie hotbuttons that have nothing to do with evolution, I instantly think "christian sock puppet." Only scientifically-illiterate religionists misunderstand evolution so completely.
oraclecrank 2 years ago
well i have to confess that all of us marxist pagan liberals are probably deep down closet christians - you probably just as much as me.
But as so often happens with pretentious fundamentalist wing of liberalism, you make assumptions about the issue that i was hinting at.
i in fact have no problem with for instance an uncle and his male lover bringing up a womans child if she was to die.
My fundamental problem is with consumerism that seems to have compromised bond between mother and child.
suziecreamchease 2 years ago
So you're a communist? Is that supposed us think you're *not* an idiot?
And what, exactly, does consumerism have to do two men raising a child? Can you justify your point or are you, as so often happens with the deluded moonbat earth-mother wing of liberalism, just talking out your ass?
oraclecrank 2 years ago
sorry you are still missing/ maybe actively avoiding every point that i am trying to make.
what seems to have gone over your head is that i am saying that all labels have limited meaning/value whether "christian" or "communist".
so i am uncomfortable with in the name of "gay rights" two men buying a child. same as in the name of "freedom" american military killing children. i am putting myself in the position of those children and thinking that i would not want to be bought or sold or killed.
suziecreamchease 2 years ago
Please explain why two men adopting a child are actually "buying" a child. That means provide some kind of evidence; don't just rely on Gaia's earth-wisdom to send a spirit animal and guide your feminine intuition.
oraclecrank 2 years ago
maybe we are talking entirely at cross purposes here.
i am sure that where a child is unfortunately unwanted.. then two men gay or otherwise are preferable to being brought up in an institution.. and i think we would both be equally disgusted with the catholic church pontificating about them not being fit parents while priests themselves are fucking children.
my original comment was about the process by which gay men enter into a deal with a woman to have a child only in order to give it away.
suziecreamchease 2 years ago
If you're taking issue with surrogate motherhood, you've got an uphill fight on your hands. Straight couples have been using surrogate mothers forever. Perhaps even a few lesbian couples have, too.
It's more like you're changing the subject. You said being raised by two mothers would "sounds like heaven" but that you "do not like the idea of two male parents." Please explain this sexist contradiction and demonstrate, with citations, that two men are less able to raise a child.
oraclecrank 2 years ago
well yes i knew from the start that i was laying myself open to being called homophobic or "sexist".
like i admitted early on.. i am deeply conservative. the fact is since the dawn of sex, females give birth to children, men do not. For countless thousands of years that is the primal relationship between children and that parent. And given a choice i would want at least one female parent.
If a woman takes a different view, and wants to give her child away, as i say that is entirely her choice
suziecreamchease 2 years ago
Feminine intuition it is! Odd how the only people fit to be parents in your worldview are people like you.
Well, claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
oraclecrank 2 years ago
Now you are beginning to go down the same road as the crosstians "there is no evidence that god does not exist". Just no evidence that he does.
There is not yet much evidence that a child brought up without a mother is psychologically deprived. However, given that the whole history of human evolution rests on us all being brought up by our mothers - it would seem a tricky experiment/ foolish mistake .
We shall have to see how children brought up by two men and no mother thrive or otherwise.
suziecreamchease 2 years ago
IF there is evidence, present it. You can't of course, because like I said, you're relying on your feminine intuition, not rational thought.
According to the American Psychological Association, " Not a single study has found children of lesbian or gay parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents."
apa(dot)org/pi/parent.html
oraclecrank 2 years ago
have just looked at sight..
and findings do not surprise me nor contradict what i am saying.
None of these studies claim to be of children sold by their mother at birth to two men.
If you were to look at studies of children taken away from their mother at birth, they would confirm my concerns.
Can i ask you, given a choice, when your mother gave birth - what would you have prefered ??
A) she hung onto you.
B) gave you to a woman.
C) sold you to two men.
D) put you in an institution.
suziecreamchease 2 years ago
PROOF. PROOF. PROOF.
You have provided no citations to support what you're saying.
Your feelings are not evidence.
oraclecrank 2 years ago 16
many crosstians have lost sight of responsibility for thinking for themselves and use belief in god/his plan to sheepishly stay on same path.. while athiesm can provide better opportunity to face reality and the challenge of developing and relying on our own values.
In your case, you have ended up believing in nothing and falling for anything.
PROOF is so far on my side of argument.
We do not need to look far to find that children taken from mother or not breast-fed do less well than others..
suziecreamchease 2 years ago
Do you even know what a citation is?
oraclecrank 2 years ago
my understanding of a citation is it is a second hand experience that you hope has been reliably reported in order that by examining its Relevant details you can build up a scientific conclusion about reality.
but , i really think that you need to better understand the relevance and conclusion of a scientific report in the context of the evidence that it is based on.
As the experiment has not been done, there no PROOF that strapping bunny ears on a cat will not allow it to thrive without meat.
suziecreamchease 2 years ago
That's exactly what a citation is NOT.
You are profoundly ignorant of the scientific method and of standards of evidence.
oraclecrank 2 years ago
Information is only one half of the equation of making use of a study. Using an open and discriminating mind to question, disect and analyse it is the other half.
The problem here is not that i am ignorant. It is rather that you have religious faith in one aspect of the scientific process which unfortunately might blind you to properly or fully understanding what that process is.
Please tell which aspect/s of my definition of citation are in your opinion in any way wrong??
suziecreamchease 2 years ago
"As the experiment has not been done, there no PROOF that strapping bunny ears on a cat will not allow it to thrive without meat."
If you think that statement is reconcilable with the scientific method, there's no helping you.
oraclecrank 2 years ago
just fucking ban marriage... its a religious dumbass concept.
people are so indoctrinated by the abrahamic concept of marriage, they dont even question it at all.
the entire country, its laws and society is twisted by christianity, its obvious, and it makes you realise how evil and dangerous the old story book written by dumb uneducated desert people in fucking stoneage is
nekftw 2 years ago
I'm not against gay marriage, but you're actring like the Church(es) never did anything good for this country. Are you forgetting the key role it playing in abolitionism in the early nineteenth century, Progressivism in the early twentieth century, and the Civil Rights movement?
EvilKarmaAngel 2 years ago
the beginning of this video is kinda funny now after an interracial couple was denied a marriage license here in Louisiana by a justice of the peace because he said interracial couples break apart and it is hard for the kids
jhohen03 2 years ago