His swing changed over time, including his set-up and post-accident. It's hard to pick a swing, with the terrible 'off-line' camera angles too, as a 'datum', or a 'base-line'. We also don't know what he intended to do with the shape of the ball-flight on any of these shots, nor where he was aiming, nor if he mis-hit it. He wasn't infallible, and much has been written on the basis he was. Much of the footage, if not all, is too out of focus and doesn't follow the result of the shot to analyse it.
science proves this is a bad move / concept. The longer clubs path comes MORE inside to out which in turn will put more spin on the ball and make it harder for consistent flight. FACT.
My favorite Mr. Hogan quote, when ask about muscle memory, ''muscles ain't got no memory they do what I tell them to do.'' Swinging a golf club is not like walking, or seeing, or heartbeats, but Mr. Hogan believed the golf swing to be a unnatural act. People don't think automatically also like a heart beats, the mind untrained is out of control and gives in to the whims of the moment, illusions, emotions, the mind is blank in most people. I really think Mr. Hogan was conscious of every position.
@steviecom Yes, that's why partial automatism can be obtained only thanks to hard structure of the body. Hence, the theory of natural limitations comes into force. Another great comment, Stevie.
So Mr. Hogan had the weight on his left heel at address and on his right ball of his foot with the rest of the clubs, do I understand that right? That's how he got his right knee in that position at address, I never noticed that before, the weight distribution. That puts the right leg in a much stronger position.
@steviecom Yes, although I meant not only weight per se but also the dynamic pressure. As Mr.Burke says, Hogan set up often with the rear heel slightly off the ground (or without any pressure). It is a very important component of the diagonal stance concept.
And yes again, strong rear side built from the ground up is crucial to create automatism of passing from backswing to downswing phase. I recommend to you to watch the SPC concept video. All LEGO pieces matches ideally.
@h1e2x3 ....In 5 Fundamentals Mr. Hogan says the weight should be towards the heels at address but with his heel off the ground of his right foot the weight received from the turn will accept as much as it can throughout the whole foot, putting the right leg in a much stronger position. If weight is on heels at beginning it's much less inconsistent, weaker, and not as dynamic.Some driver swings look like the left leg is very slightly bent or even stiff putting the weight towards his heel.
@mp3551 Since feet are closed and hips open in relation to the target line, knees must be aligned something in between; for the diagonality of the stance is the biggest with the driver (rear foot set back the most and hips open the least) , the line of knees must also be a bit closed per se.
Checkout Slicefixer Youtube page, he's on to something. Best teacher of the Hogan method, although he doesn't consider himself an official Hogan student.
@SimpleAz Yes, he did. I presume you ask because in the diagonal stance feet line is closed (like the conventional instruction says when someone asks what to do to draw the ball) - well, the truth is that we should never think that feet are to aim. One should aim with shoulders. Hogan's feet were closed but his hips were open. The allocation of his feetused his feet was the best way to ensure effective usage of ground forces and balance. Try it and you'll never return back.
did this come out in the five fundamentals? because i dont remember reading this. Most of footage has bad camera angles to actually justify this kind of setup.
@wagaiznogoud Only the original stance diagramme. The rest of info goes out both of Gardner Dickinson's comments on Hogan's stance as well as my researches on biokinetics. The diagonal stance is the most logic one.
@Nightwing690 Conventional instruction says by opening the stance; however, as it could be seen Mr.Hogan used the diagonal stance with closed feet but open hips after the "secret", i.e. when he got rid of his hooks. IMO, the stance should be always diagonal, only the amount of diagonality changes dependently on a club (is bigger with longer clubs and smaller with shorter ones).
@finster869 Very good - now you need to use your pivot more to be more on top of the ball approaching impact - imagine OTT still being able to deliver the clubface from the inside - a secret of Hogan's fade that was never a classic pull fade.
@h1e2x3 Thanks for the quick response. If I understand correctly, you are suggesting that I turn my left hip and left knee to the left from the top of the swing, because my pre-torquing and diagonal stance will allow me to still come from the inside?
@finster869 Yes, sir. Of course, a necessary amount of lateral shift must happen (because we're bipedals) and the downswing can be a pure rotation without danger of overspinning - just as Mr.Hogan visualized in '5 Lessons' (elastic tape glued to his lead hip).
@h1e2x3 I tried registering for the forum on your website, but the account hasn't been activated so I can't post there. When you get a chance, please activiate me. Thanks!
@finster869 IMO There are 2 ways to fade the ball. 1 Aim left of the target (feet and shoulders) and open the clubface by rotating the shaft clckwise (this will increase the rel loft of the c.f. and point the c.f. to the right..probably at the actual target.) Swing on the target line your feet are aimed at. 2 Aim your feet to the target. Aim your shlders lft of the target which should push the grip end of the club fwd (and open the face). Swing on shoulder line keeping hands forward of ball
There is no logical basis for the theory you must flare your lead or your trail foot in or out. It would confound all laws of physics, given the fact that human joints are flexible and therefore inefficient in transferring kinetic energy.
I know what it says in Hogans book about the quarter turn etc - sadly, this is bollocks. The legs are for standing on. They move depending on what you intend to do with you hands or your head. Otherwise, I agree! Good Video!
@TheBusiness55 I honestly disagree. First, human joints are flexible but enframed with mechanical limitations, thus, able to create torques; secondly, both physical as well as geometrical logics of the diagonal stance theory is explained very well below the vid and on my net pages. Instead throwing empty critical remarks - throw counterarguments. I love good discussion :)
@h1e2x3 Seriously, I could name a hundred players who have either foot in, out or straight ahead. I am not disagree with you that a slightly closed stance is better for less lofted and longer shafted clubs, btw.
As for kinesiology, you cannot generate any power with your legs. Big muscles dont provide the power or create torque and you cannot hit the ball with by deliberately uncocking your wrists in the downswing.
Its how you "program" the Pineal gland which dictates it all, really. :-)
@TheBusiness55 The main source of biopower are torques generated in the hard structure (bones+spine+joints) supported by soft tissues (that are anyhow enframed in the hard structure). If we live in no-friction conditions - I'd agree to you 100%, BTW.
I always use a slightly closed or draw stance, I just find it more natural. And you can draw or fade from this stance. Anyway I believe a draw or a fade is created more from which half of the ball is struck. Inside half is straight to slight draw, straight on or slightly outside is a fade to slice. This visual cue is more pronounced with the longer clubs like the driver.
Why is the world does he have a draw stance on the 2nd to last shot? It was like 120-135 yard shot. If hazards are not in the way, everyone on tour will hit a slight fade because it goes straighter.
@JAKEHARRIS281 The Diagonal Stance is not a plain "draw" stance (neither a plain "fade" one). It's an optimal stance for a bipedal from the biokinetical point of view independently on shot shaping. Please read carefully the description under the vid.
His swing changed over time, including his set-up and post-accident. It's hard to pick a swing, with the terrible 'off-line' camera angles too, as a 'datum', or a 'base-line'. We also don't know what he intended to do with the shape of the ball-flight on any of these shots, nor where he was aiming, nor if he mis-hit it. He wasn't infallible, and much has been written on the basis he was. Much of the footage, if not all, is too out of focus and doesn't follow the result of the shot to analyse it.
1DCCX 2 weeks ago
science proves this is a bad move / concept. The longer clubs path comes MORE inside to out which in turn will put more spin on the ball and make it harder for consistent flight. FACT.
thetruthaboutgolf 2 months ago
My favorite Mr. Hogan quote, when ask about muscle memory, ''muscles ain't got no memory they do what I tell them to do.'' Swinging a golf club is not like walking, or seeing, or heartbeats, but Mr. Hogan believed the golf swing to be a unnatural act. People don't think automatically also like a heart beats, the mind untrained is out of control and gives in to the whims of the moment, illusions, emotions, the mind is blank in most people. I really think Mr. Hogan was conscious of every position.
steviecom 6 months ago 6
@steviecom Yes, that's why partial automatism can be obtained only thanks to hard structure of the body. Hence, the theory of natural limitations comes into force. Another great comment, Stevie.
h1e2x3 6 months ago 4
So Mr. Hogan had the weight on his left heel at address and on his right ball of his foot with the rest of the clubs, do I understand that right? That's how he got his right knee in that position at address, I never noticed that before, the weight distribution. That puts the right leg in a much stronger position.
steviecom 6 months ago
@steviecom Yes, although I meant not only weight per se but also the dynamic pressure. As Mr.Burke says, Hogan set up often with the rear heel slightly off the ground (or without any pressure). It is a very important component of the diagonal stance concept.
And yes again, strong rear side built from the ground up is crucial to create automatism of passing from backswing to downswing phase. I recommend to you to watch the SPC concept video. All LEGO pieces matches ideally.
h1e2x3 6 months ago 4
@h1e2x3 ....In 5 Fundamentals Mr. Hogan says the weight should be towards the heels at address but with his heel off the ground of his right foot the weight received from the turn will accept as much as it can throughout the whole foot, putting the right leg in a much stronger position. If weight is on heels at beginning it's much less inconsistent, weaker, and not as dynamic.Some driver swings look like the left leg is very slightly bent or even stiff putting the weight towards his heel.
steviecom 6 months ago
@steviecom Yes, a very good point. Great observations.
h1e2x3 6 months ago
yeah, you can see him pulling that back foot as he settles in. The bottom line is set-up really is 90% of the whole thing, it's undeniable.
TadRapidly 8 months ago
@TadRapidly Yup; too bad that current golf instruction is so stupid not to notice such crucial issues for a human motion.
h1e2x3 8 months ago 11
What's the position of the knees with the driver? Aligned with target, closed, or aligned with shoulders/hips?
mp3551 9 months ago
@mp3551 Since feet are closed and hips open in relation to the target line, knees must be aligned something in between; for the diagonality of the stance is the biggest with the driver (rear foot set back the most and hips open the least) , the line of knees must also be a bit closed per se.
h1e2x3 9 months ago 3
where in the blue hell did u get that music that is some sweet sounding shit
kurtoconnel 1 year ago
@kurtoconnel This one is taken from the YT music collection.
h1e2x3 1 year ago
Pure rotational beauty.
Checkout Slicefixer Youtube page, he's on to something. Best teacher of the Hogan method, although he doesn't consider himself an official Hogan student.
1tontomato 1 year ago 4
@1tontomato I know Geoff and his excellent reputation. I don't agree with some issues he teaches but the majority is great stuff.
h1e2x3 1 year ago
Didn't hogan fight a hook?
SimpleAz 1 year ago
@SimpleAz Yes, he did. I presume you ask because in the diagonal stance feet line is closed (like the conventional instruction says when someone asks what to do to draw the ball) - well, the truth is that we should never think that feet are to aim. One should aim with shoulders. Hogan's feet were closed but his hips were open. The allocation of his feetused his feet was the best way to ensure effective usage of ground forces and balance. Try it and you'll never return back.
h1e2x3 1 year ago 21
did this come out in the five fundamentals? because i dont remember reading this. Most of footage has bad camera angles to actually justify this kind of setup.
wagaiznogoud 1 year ago
@wagaiznogoud Only the original stance diagramme. The rest of info goes out both of Gardner Dickinson's comments on Hogan's stance as well as my researches on biokinetics. The diagonal stance is the most logic one.
h1e2x3 1 year ago 14
question, can a person who fights a hook compensate by closing or opening his stance.
Nightwing690 1 year ago
@Nightwing690 Conventional instruction says by opening the stance; however, as it could be seen Mr.Hogan used the diagonal stance with closed feet but open hips after the "secret", i.e. when he got rid of his hooks. IMO, the stance should be always diagonal, only the amount of diagonality changes dependently on a club (is bigger with longer clubs and smaller with shorter ones).
h1e2x3 1 year ago 9
J- I have begun drawing/hooking the ball doing this. Any suggestions? Do you need a weak grip with this, or slightly open clubface at address?
finster869 1 year ago
@finster869 Very good - now you need to use your pivot more to be more on top of the ball approaching impact - imagine OTT still being able to deliver the clubface from the inside - a secret of Hogan's fade that was never a classic pull fade.
h1e2x3 1 year ago 2
@h1e2x3 Thanks for the quick response. If I understand correctly, you are suggesting that I turn my left hip and left knee to the left from the top of the swing, because my pre-torquing and diagonal stance will allow me to still come from the inside?
finster869 1 year ago
@finster869 Yes, sir. Of course, a necessary amount of lateral shift must happen (because we're bipedals) and the downswing can be a pure rotation without danger of overspinning - just as Mr.Hogan visualized in '5 Lessons' (elastic tape glued to his lead hip).
h1e2x3 1 year ago
@h1e2x3 I tried registering for the forum on your website, but the account hasn't been activated so I can't post there. When you get a chance, please activiate me. Thanks!
finster869 1 year ago
@finster869 Already done, my friend !
h1e2x3 1 year ago
@finster869 IMO There are 2 ways to fade the ball. 1 Aim left of the target (feet and shoulders) and open the clubface by rotating the shaft clckwise (this will increase the rel loft of the c.f. and point the c.f. to the right..probably at the actual target.) Swing on the target line your feet are aimed at. 2 Aim your feet to the target. Aim your shlders lft of the target which should push the grip end of the club fwd (and open the face). Swing on shoulder line keeping hands forward of ball
emjeyzee 8 months ago
There is no logical basis for the theory you must flare your lead or your trail foot in or out. It would confound all laws of physics, given the fact that human joints are flexible and therefore inefficient in transferring kinetic energy.
I know what it says in Hogans book about the quarter turn etc - sadly, this is bollocks. The legs are for standing on. They move depending on what you intend to do with you hands or your head. Otherwise, I agree! Good Video!
TheBusiness55 1 year ago
@TheBusiness55 I honestly disagree. First, human joints are flexible but enframed with mechanical limitations, thus, able to create torques; secondly, both physical as well as geometrical logics of the diagonal stance theory is explained very well below the vid and on my net pages. Instead throwing empty critical remarks - throw counterarguments. I love good discussion :)
h1e2x3 1 year ago
@h1e2x3 Seriously, I could name a hundred players who have either foot in, out or straight ahead. I am not disagree with you that a slightly closed stance is better for less lofted and longer shafted clubs, btw.
As for kinesiology, you cannot generate any power with your legs. Big muscles dont provide the power or create torque and you cannot hit the ball with by deliberately uncocking your wrists in the downswing.
Its how you "program" the Pineal gland which dictates it all, really. :-)
TheBusiness55 1 year ago
@TheBusiness55 The main source of biopower are torques generated in the hard structure (bones+spine+joints) supported by soft tissues (that are anyhow enframed in the hard structure). If we live in no-friction conditions - I'd agree to you 100%, BTW.
h1e2x3 1 year ago
I always use a slightly closed or draw stance, I just find it more natural. And you can draw or fade from this stance. Anyway I believe a draw or a fade is created more from which half of the ball is struck. Inside half is straight to slight draw, straight on or slightly outside is a fade to slice. This visual cue is more pronounced with the longer clubs like the driver.
pat52010 1 year ago
Why is the world does he have a draw stance on the 2nd to last shot? It was like 120-135 yard shot. If hazards are not in the way, everyone on tour will hit a slight fade because it goes straighter.
JAKEHARRIS281 1 year ago
@JAKEHARRIS281 The Diagonal Stance is not a plain "draw" stance (neither a plain "fade" one). It's an optimal stance for a bipedal from the biokinetical point of view independently on shot shaping. Please read carefully the description under the vid.
h1e2x3 1 year ago
Bout time someone else figured it out, been harping it by myself for quiet awhile, taking the flack with a grain of salt! Good stuff...!
blakeburleygolf 1 year ago
@blakeburleygolf Thank you.
h1e2x3 1 year ago