@jehovahistheonlytrue So motives determine whether or not you confess your allegiance to Christ before men? Perhaps Jesus and the apostles should have ignored the Pharisees altogether since they wanted them dead! But they didn't. They confessed and argued their position even towards those who wanted to kill them.
This guy with the microphone is not a UJW, Notice how he says *Do they follow Christ** or Do They follow christ** Not, DO WE. follow Christ. This is stupidity. Of course JW's follow Christ. Jesus told us to go and make disciples. teaching them all the good news of the kingdom, Heavenly and Earthly Hope.. Look at other religions.. Catholics for one.. They **foloow Christ** or so they say. Yet they are molesting little kids and stealing money from Church. How pathetic. Would Christ do that?
People, just answer the man's question! I mean, I know they think that talking to him is equivalent to "casting pearls to swine", but seriously, walking away whilst ignoring the guy reeks of an air of superiority and self-righteousness. Even if they know he's not interested in the "truth" he's not being disrespectful, he's just asking them a very simple question. Yes or no, people. What are you, better than him? Will speaking to a lowly and "filthy apostate" lower you that much?
For anyone else watching this video: Jehovah's Witnesses are currently studying a book at their meetings which is entitled "COME BE MY FOLLOWER" based on the example and teachings of Jesus and his invitation to us personally to become a follower of his. You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about. If anyone wants to know the truth about what they believe please ask Jehovahs Witnesses themselves next time they knock on your door.
For anyone else watching this video: Jehovah's Witnesses are currently studying a book at their meetings which is entitled "COME BE MY FOLLOWER" based on the example and teachings of Jesus and his invitation to us personally to become a follower of his. You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about. If anyone wants to know the truth about what they believe please ask Jehovahs Witnesses themselves next time they knock on your door.
@rivers1963 Actions speak louder than words. Of course JW's talk about being followers of Christ and study such publications. But when they are placed outside of their comfort zone, such as this video shows, they fail to confess him. They fear man more than they fear Jehovah.
@theapologeticfront The reason why they dont answer the man with the microphone is because they know his motives are not out of sincere inquiry but rather only to try to defame JWs. JWs are the only religious organization world wide that proclaim the good news of Gods Kingdom in imitation of Christ. In fact Jesus said "Go and make disciples..."Matt 28:19 They do this in over 235 lands from door to door. Fear man you say?? What about the stand they made against Hitler? Please take a closer look.
@rivers1963 where in Matt. 10:31-32 does it say that its only for those with "sincere inquiry" that we should confess Christ before them? Do you think those whom the early church encountered with severe physical persecution were sincere inquirers?
yes, this is simply an apostate. He chooses to use a tactic that is simply fleshly and weak. We don't speak to apostates..why?..because the bible says not to even greet them. They are traitors. If this guy was honest, he would know we follow Christ. But, we obey Paul when he said to not greet, eat, etc with people like this. I wouldn't speak with Judas either if he were living.
Interesting vid. I have been to a few of these conventions and (as we saw in this video) it is really difficult to get JWs to even grant you some common courtesy when you approach them like this. I found though that if you go a bit further afield from the convention you can give out tracts and some will take them.
The only reason they weren't answering him is because they have been told he's an apostate. That's all there's to it. And that's all it takes for a JW to ignore you, the WT says "jump" and they ask how high. I remember seeing people like this man at an assembly once, they were holding up signs with scripture verses and we were told not to look at them, let alone talk to them. They're simply following the WT's orders because they believe those orders come from God himself.
@Hokabelle Jehovah's witnesses follow what the bible says and the bible says not to talk to apostates. Each Witness trains his conscience in accord with bible principles and eventually we all answer to God individually for our actions. It is not a matter of following "orders" as you call it, from the WT society . It is a matter of obedience to Jehovah God and His son Jesus by following what the Bible says. We take a spiritual viewpoint not a fleshly one.
@rivers1963 Yeah I have the sheet music to this tune, after all, it is exactly what I used to believe as well. But you're not really fooling anyone, least of all those who've been there and done it all. And for the record I am a fully fledged apostate, so you know what to do, but then again do it in accordance to your conscience.
@JAKEV25 interesting. You would REFUSE to say "yes" when asked, "Do you follow Christ," but here you are on YouTube, commenting on the video of that very person who would ask you the question! In addition, I see you all over the comment sections interacting with "opposers and apostates" (pearls before swine?). I guess double standards don't apply to you?
@entrsnm3 No I would not and neither would any JW. They are not stupid. They know who you are. And you are just trying to prove a mute point. We follow the Christ more than you do....We actually have the same God Christ does.....you do not.
What you are trying to do is incite an argument...we are not here to argue but to preach....listen or do not.
You really are ridiculous....They JW will not engage you so you come up with this silly hpothesis..Nice try.
Excuse me,,,,but were we not told NOT to cast pearls to swine? The JW know you are not honest hearted and are not seeking to know the truth. What fellowship have we with the unbelievers? I commend the JW character. Jesus said if a household doesn't listen to you then kick of the dust from your shoes and MOVE ON>
@JAKEV25 oh, I see. So the only time you don't deny Christ is when someone is seeking the truth? Yeah, i'm sure the early persecuted church refused all the time to give a testimony before those who were not only pestering them (probably much worse than what this man was trying to do), but TRYING TO KILL THEM.
@entrsnm3 For some reason you think that the JW are stupid people....far from it my friend...They know exactly what this man is trying to accomplish....and it is nothing spiritual.
No matter how much evidence is shown Jake you just refuse to look at the truth of matter. You defer to the whims of The Most notorious False Prophet of modern times.
@dhamamy How funny...Look dhamamy....The evidence is that Christendom is the Most Notorious False Prophet of modern times....not the WBTS.....Is the WBTS perfect?....no...no organization is perfect.
Don't point fingers at us after the bloody history of Catholicism and Protestantism.
What do you think that because we have an imperfect organization we should run into your arms...???? GET REAL. You've caused more death and destruction and havoc than any government in the world...no thanks.
The WT's record of False Prophecy is astounding. The fact that you blindly and arrogantly lump me in with Catholicism and Protestantism shows how presumptious and ignorant your argumentation is. You GET REAL. Watchtower is a Godless organization as is proven by their dozens of failed prophecies.
@dhamamy ....What are you kidding?...You believe in all the same things...what are the differences?....Need I really look at the history of the Baptist Church dhammy?
Please don't make me go there...I don't want to waste my time or yours.
@dhamamy ,,,And no, the godless ones are the trinitarians of this world Dhammy. You refuse to see bible truths and thus worship a false triune god. The entire foundation of your faith is built on a lie...the trinity dogma and to keep supporting that lie you would give your very life I would presume...very sad indeed.
(Deut 18:20) “‘However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. .
(Ez 14:10) And they will have to bear their error. The error of the inquirer will prove to be just the same as the error of the prophet,
Jake you ignore these basic bible truths. Good Luck with that.
@dhamamy The JW have never claimed to be foretelling prophets dhamamy...you know this....And if we applied your logic then the disciples of Jesus would have been killed because they too thought that the end was going to come in their lifetimes...You are too easy dhamamy.....better study the biggest false prophets...the trinitarians...
@JAKEV25 That's right Jake, so if you think Mike is "swine" as you imply, then why in the world are you spending your time commenting on his videos? So not only are you dis-obeying the "Slave" according to what you just said you are dis-obeying Christ also. What's up with you Jake? Talk about in-consistency. Are you a fake? Follow your own advise or stop giving it.
Mike, I think this is an incredible show of the fear that is inspired by the watchtower organization. When supposed witnesses refuse to be recorded discussing their views of Jesus Christ, it shows that they are controlled by the watchtower and not controlled by their convictions to either the Holy Scripture or their belief in the word of Jesus Christ Himself. To let a man-inspired organization so control your ability to openly discuss your convictions to God and Jesus Christ is fear not love.
See what happens when you post these types of things, you get all the haters, opposers, ridiculers and apostates united together for one unholy cause which is to deflect the truth about Jesus Christ and his GOD with false reasonings. Wow!... Matt 15:19 applies here: "For example, out of the heart come wicked reasonings, murders, adulteries, fornications, thieveries, false testimonies, blasphemies."
You realize you guys all band together in hate. Do you think that's a good thing?
@FairNskware You are seeking out these videos. Why? No need to answer...that is for you to self reflect on. Now, if our opinions bother you, and you are happy in your faith...go about your business, and do not seek us out.
@inspirediam We all can say that about each other can't we. These video are directed to Jw's. Are you a Jw or an ex one? Sometimes I get the urge to make a stand on here, and sometimes I let the mire sit where it is. It depends on my mood. I believe we all have freewill. I use mine the way I see fit and according to Gods law and not according to any man.
@FairNskware I am me, I don't label myself. I am human, part of humanity. I understand what you mean about getting the urge to make a stand or a point, and at other times simply letting it be...depending on the mood. Yes, I see this in myself too.
@FairNskware I am me, I don't label myself. I am human, part of humanity. I understand what you mean about getting the urge to make a stand or a point, and at other times simply letting it be...depending on the mood. Yes, I see this in myself too.
Mike, going on past experience, I would say that most of the people who are being asked this question at this convention are probably more concerned about getting together with their friends after the session for food and drink than they are about following Christ. The thinking is "If we put in our time here at the Convention, then we can kick back and relax this evening. We've done our part for this day" "We loyally supported the organization".
This is really, really, sad. The public gets to see a different side of JW's, the side that refuses to acknowledge that they follow the Christ. I'm sure the result would be the same even if it was someone else asking them that same question.
This is not some stupid video. It is actually an embarrassing video for them. If I was asked that question, I would eagerly and happily answer yes and attempt to give a witness for my Lord and Savior regardless of who is asking the question.
@nibornagrom>"I just wanted to say how stupid I think videos like this are. Very low brow"
If all those JWs asked "do you follow the Christ" happily answered "YES" and gave reasons for their faith in Lord Jesus: you'd beam with pride wanting all to see a video showing JWs are true Christians.
But NO, JWs didn't do that! They turned their backs to the questioner and scurried away. Even the 3 saying "yes" did so with heads shamefully down walking away.
@nibornagrom To be honest with you Robin, if I didn't attend church this sunday and a JW stood outside the doors as people exited and asked the same question and got the same reaction, I would be extremely saddened and probably appalled; not at the JW (i'd thank him for doing it actually, as much as it hurt me), but at my church. I could not be a part of an assembly that would outright refuse to acknowledge our Lord and Savior.
@entrsnm3 May I interject here? We are not supporters of men. It is Gods feelings and Christs feelings that we want to always consider. You are saddened because you don't understand this. What if I told you this man KILLS innocent babies for his own pleasure and one of them was your baby sister..how would you view him then? Would you greet him and feel sorry for him. How would your parents feel if they saw you greeting this guy. We must view things Gods way. 1 Co 5:9-13, Matt 10:33
@FairNskware actually, i'd be even more apt, Lord willing, to offer a testimony to him in hopes that the Spirit opens his eyes to the reality that Jesus Christ is capable of saving anyone, regardless of what they have done.
You say the reason why JWs don't answer this man's question "Do you follow the Christ" is because he's an apostate, and you say "That's the proof" on why they don't confess Jesus Christ to this man?
No!
That is not the proof at all!
Here is the proof why JWs don't confess Jesus Christ:
All JWs are "A PEOPLE, NOT FOR THE NAME OF JESUS"
WT 2/15/1964 pg109
"They [Jehovah's Witnesses] came to appreciate that they were A PEOPLE, NOT FOR THE NAME OF JESUS"
@FairNskware isn't 1 Cor. 5:9-13 with regards to "so-called brothers" who are involved in immoral behavior? What does this text have to do with accepting or rejecting an opportunity to affirm or deny your allegiance to Christ?
@entrsnm3 I was making the point that we throw these so- called brothers out just like 1 Cor 5:9-13 says....This man was obviously thrown OUT because of some unrepentant wrong doing......so realistically he can neither help affirm or deny anyones allegiance to Christ but his own because of the huge chip on his shoulder. Apostates can't help anybody spiritually because of this.Now are they true apostates or only act like ones?....I don't know and this is why we leave things in Jehovahs hands.
@FairNskware again, this passage is talking about wicked, immoral "brothers." I find it amazing that you assume all of this about this man when you actually know nothing about him. What if he was simply disfellowshipped for realizing that the Bible teaches that all true Christians are born again, or for denying another key doctrine of the Watchtower? Would this make him like the wicked "brother" being described in 1 Cor 5? Or are you misapplying this text?
@entrsnm3 First of all, who in their right mind would go to a religious gathering in which he does not belong and repeat fanatically the same question over and over again knowing he wouldnt be recieved well.... unless he wanted to cause controversy? Is that what the bible teaches. Is this man following the Christ? Is he sound in mind or thinking with a clear mind. 1 Pet 4:7
@FairNskware please answer my last comment with regards to 1 Cor. 5. Is this text not strictly about Christians involved in grossly immoral behavior? Why apply this text to this man when you don't know if/why/how he was disfellowshipped? Again, would this text apply, for instance, to someone who decided to obey Matt. 7:15 and "stay away from" the organization in realizing they were false prophets?
@entrsnm3 He comments on being ex- Jw's around 6:19 and he puts in text around 7:53 that he doesn't deny that " jws call him apostate.
I don't need to know "WHY" someone was disfellowshipped. Only that they have been. I don't make those decisions, I am not doing any judging. 1 Co 5 is there for a protection to the congregation to guard against unrepentant attitudes. Youtube is rampant with D'fd people which makes commenting serious as sometimes I answer their questions and am not aware.
@FairNskware but what does 1 Cor 5 have to do with this man? You have yet to respond to all the questions asked you about this text, which is strictly with regards to CURRENT so-called brothers who are INVOLVED in wicked, immoral behavior.
In other words, if you knew that this man was disfellowshipped for not believing that, for instance, only 144,000 are born again, would you treat him in the same way that you'd treat a wickedly immoral brother, 1 Cor. 5?
@FairNskware that is absolutely not true. Men are disfellowshipped NOT JUST on immoral grounds. Some are df'd strictly on the grounds for not believing in a particular doctrine, in which case 1 Cor 5 would not apply. Not gonna beat a dead horse on this, but this is poof positive for me that you are forced to believe this about 1 Cor. 5 because it is what the org tells you to believe about it, rather than going to the text and letting it speak.
@FairNskware But even besides that, how do you even know he is a former JW? Have you talked to him personally? For all you know, he could be exactly like me; someone who has never been a JW, but has done some research and seeks to expose the Watchtower and reach out to JW's.
@FairNskware Greetings:) Out of all due respect, as Mike first said at the beginning even if it's "satan himself asking this question" we should stand tall and BOLDLY answer YES, I DO!!!!
So it's plain and simply as scripture states, no tricks the question should be able to be answered no matter who asks it.
This puts me in mind of the Columbian School shooting in Colorado, when the Christian teenage girl was asked right before she was shot, "Do you believe in God". I
@hopecharstar So, who do you think 1 Co 5:9-13 and Matt 10:33 applies to? Is there somebody worse than Satan that these scriptures pertain too?? You are saying blatently I might add that You and everybody here(except any jws) would socialize with Satan even though God specifically warns us not to in the above scriptures......that is unbelievable. Who could be more apostate than Satan. True Christians will want to stay away from anybody like him. We determine motives by their FRUITS.Matt 7:16
@FairNskware 11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a BROTHER..Would you call this man your brother?I have never been a JW,so if I may ask the question,"Do you follow the Christ",would you answer me?All any JW would need to do is answer his question that the Lord Jesus tells us to do in Matt 10:33 no matter WHO ask it.He is by no means trying to stir the pot,he is witnessing as he is commanded to do by Christ.God Bless you :)
@FairNskware I know you'll say this is different, but what if he ask that question instead? It still wouldn't matter, it should be answered to but I bet they would do the same thing.
The day will come when we who are still alive will be asked to deny or renounce our faith if we want to live. Will you answer the question then?
@hopecharstar Yes, I agree we do need to answer to God in everything we do as that is reflected in our FAITH in Jesus ransom sacrifice. But, simply not speaking to a person who obviously just wants to "stir the pot" and is in no way trying to encourage his fellow man...this is not renouncing our faith. That is like putting a naughty child into the corner, and then someone saying to you, " You hate God" because of your diciplinary actions.....Its rediculous.
@FairNskware This is how the WT has taught you to believe in what disfellowshipping means. Yes I totally believe a person in the church should be handled accordingly when not following God's law. But for a persons friends and family to 'basically' turn their noses up or look away and not speak as if they didn't even exist is totally unexceptable.
Does this make the person want to come back because they are deeply sorry for breaking God's law or are they lonely and scared and miss their friends and family. And this can really be hard on the ones that know no other way of life outside the WT. So are the actions of the disfellowshipped person returning to the flock geniue or just out of fear?
This cannot even be compared with discipling a child when they are misbehaving. May the Lord Jesus Christ Bless you and open your eyes to the truth of His word.
@hopecharstar Call it what you like but the bible set things straight when it says this at Heb 12:11 "True, no discipline seems for the present to be joyous, but grievous; yet afterward to those who have been trained by it it yields peaceable fruit, namely, righteousness."
@hopecharstar But can't you see the WORLD is teaching you to disregard God's laws. Is it not better to err on the side of caution, and shun things that are even mentioned in the bible??
@FairNskware If I may say we had an incident in our church involving the youth pastor.He was removed from his position and rightly so.And of course there were other actions taken.And what he had done was made known.But the congregation showed the love of God even more to this man.Yes he repented.Grant you I totally understand there are the unrepented sinners and each should be handled accordingly.I know of some that do not care and I know of some that care and need fellowship to help stop.
and when I say fellowship, I mean with people he/she may feel closer to that he/she could talk to and they could witness to him/her with the love of Jesus to help bring him/her back. A person most definitely needs to feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit for his/her wrong doings and don't you think this can be done with love by witnessing and reading God's word?
Oh, by the way we got side-tracked. You never answered my question. 11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a BROTHER..Would you call this man your brother?I have never been a JW,so if I may ask the question,"Do you follow the Christ",would you answer me?All any JW would need to do is answer his question that the Lord Jesus tells us to do in Matt 10:33 no matter WHO ask it.
@hopecharstar Yes, I do. The key is repentance. Does the person feel sad or regretful of his sinful course, would he do it different if he had the chance, is he taking active steps so that it doesnt happen again etc....God loves all of us, and he want us all to come to repentance. But what I am talking about with this guy in the video is a truly unrepentant wrong doer, a blatant mocker of sorts...these type of people are who the scriptures are speaking of...they are trying to get a following.
@FairNskware Ok, I think we're getting on two subjects. I agree that the definition for apostate is a person who forsakes his religion. So my question to you is if he does not believe in what you believe would you call him your brother? No? Then let's go to the verse you quoted,11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a BROTHER. So my next question should you not be able to answer the question? "Do you follow the Christ"?
@FairNskware I understood from the beginning my dear. As you quoted it states in the NWT in 1Cor:11, 11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone CALLED a BROTHER. The man in the vid according to you and the WT is of satan, he is NOT you brother. So my question still stands, should you not be able to answer the question that Jesus spoke of in Matt 10:32? This is a simple yes or no answer if we take what your saying along with the verses you've quoted.
@hopecharstar I think your missing the point here. If the man were of a different religion, knew nothing about the witnesses except heresay and decided he didnt like what he heard, went to the stadium where they were gathering and ask that question to illicit information for himself....then yes we would gladly answer this question and perhaps ask him if he wanted a bible study to clear up the falsehoods he was taught. However, this is NOT the case. This man was called a brother at one time.
@FairNskware Doesn't the WT teach that Christendom is of satan? And please I don't mean to keep repeating myself, but does not 1Cor5:11 refer to someone who you would call a brother now, in the present tense? Also, I am a woman of a different religion and I know we're not in front of the stadium, but I'm asking you the same question again, "do you follow the Christ"? Please my dear this is an important question. If you don't want to answer I understand, but at least ask yourself the question.
@hopecharstar Of course I follow the Christ. so do all Jw's. There is a difference between ones who are leading an immoral life due to ignorance or birth teaching than to someone who came to a accurate knowledge of what the bible teaches, dedicates their life, gets baptized fully acknowledging what they are doing..... and then turns away. That is what 1 Cor 5 calls a wicked brother....Christendom is false religion and we need to get out it.
@FairNskwareOut of all due respect I don't believe you do and according to 2Cor5:20 you quoted, the WT has substitued themselves for Christ. These slight little changes that were made to the Holy Scriptures by the WT can make a grave difference in what one beliefs. This man along with many others that left are not leaving the truth they are returning to the truth. They thought they had accurate knowledge and realized something didn't add up. This is why these videos are made to help show you.
@hopecharstar **sigh** You asked me a question, I answered it. If you already knew what I would answer( surely you didnt think I would say I don't) then your question was a set up, and unkind. Is that what your want me to think? In regards to 2 Co 5:20 have a look at the NIV...it says the same basic thing...don't go on the words of men on here,..always look for yourself before you give an answer. This video is nothing but a foolish attempt to bring dishonor to God and His son...
@FairNskware By no means did I mean to come off unkind. The question had to be answered before I could go on. Witnesses do that all the time at the door. You know what the homeowners answer will be, but you still need to ask it and hear the answer, it would be rude to answer it for them even though you were trained to know how they will respond. So I was not trying to be mean.
And I am amazed you do not see the difference in how 2Cor5:20 is rendered in these 2 translations.
@hopecharstar No, sorry I didn't catch that. Just makin sure. To answer your question, when Jws go to your door, they have no idea what you will answer as they have no idea what faith you are or if you even believe in God. You knew what I would answer. You probably should have just went ahead with your argument based on your assumption instead of agonizing over and over again until I said what you wanted. It was fruitless. But no worries, I don't hold grudges, next time be more forth coming.
@FairNskware No problem.;) I guess I just see things differently. I would think it to be rude to answer for someone even if I know what their answer would be. The whole thing and you well know this, that when witnessing this is what you do so that it will lead to the next question/response.
@hopecharstar I agree, it is usually rude to answer for another..but an obvious question like "do you belong to the Christ", to openly professed Christians like Jws, like me ...is kinda sketchy. We don't ask those kinds of questions, but I know what you mean though.
cont... And if I may, don't you consider it strange that in the 1800's we had (that I know of) two new revelation from God. One came from a man called Joseph Smith and the other Charles Russell. Your life just happened to follow the path started by Charles Russell. I myself will stick with the Holy Scriptures that were given to us by God that biblical scholars from different sides came together and determine what God was conveying to us through the writings of the prophets and apostles.
Prove it! Publicly strongly condemn JW human religious rulers for commanding:
WT4/1/07p24
"when we LOYALLY SUBMIT TO direction of the FS and its GB, we are submitting to Christ, the slave's Master ...ALL in the congregation VIEW IT AS THEIR SACRED DUTY to follow & uphold direction coming from FS and its GB"
"Fear God and keep *HIS commandments FOR THIS IS THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN" Ecc12:13 Ac5:29 "We must obey God as ruler rather than men" *Jn14:15
@nibornagrom>"What really pains U? The fact we are "JEHOVAH'S Witnesses"?"
Holy Father sent His Son Jesus Christ as His ONLY Witness, ONLY one ordained to come in the name of Jehovah. Since the beginning, the only true and faithful witness of Holy Father is His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus is Holy, the Way, the Truth and the Life having the Name of YHWH. Christians witness of Jesus Christ
WBTS jw-religious org: "take[s] up the name of Jehovah your God in a worthless way" NWT Ex20:7
He's an apostate, a former Jw who is fully aware that the witnesses obey the words in 1 Co 5:9:13. He KNEW he would get this reaction and filmed it so as to get sympathy from the world.....he's a coward as he has buckled to the worlds low sink of debauchery...1 Pet 4:4 and you're praising it. Faith in Jesus is not defined by merely words but a heart condition reflected by good deeds. It's funny how people jump right on this like a vicious mob when the Jw's are the only ones obeying the bible.
@FairNskware But what about Matthew 10:33? Isn't that about publicly acknowledging Jesus before MEN, aka THE WORLD? This video made my stomach turn and I really didn't want to post it. But I wanted JW's to feel what I would feel if I saw people who I thought were true Christians doing the same thing. There is nothing in Matthew 10:33 about making exceptions for apostates. In fact, in the context for the early church, it was answering people who were trying to kill them.
@FairNskware I was declared an apostate because I didn't believe all the teachings of the organization. I didn't reject Christ. It was lack of loyalty to the organization that deemed me an apostate. The Bible does not command us to be loyal to anyone accept God. That was the problem in Jesus day. People had to choose between the Organization (the Jewish system) and Christ. The same is true today.
@FairNskware>"ambassadors substituting for Christ, as though God were making entreaty through us. As substitutes for Christ we beg: "Become reconciled to God." - 2Cor5:20"
There's NO "substituting" or "substitute" for Lord Jesus Christ!
NWT in 2Cor5:20 purposely added the English word "substituting" in a most demonic way:
All claiming to be "substitutes for Christ" are "FALSE CHRISTS" Mt24:24;Mk13:22 [pseudochristos]. This is deceivers, of the spirit of ANTICHRIST/S 1Jn2:18-22; 4:3; 2Jn1:7
Barb the NIV says the same basic thing. Take it up with Paul NIV20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.
NIV "We are therefore Christ's ambassadors,as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God"
NWT "We are therefore ambassadors SUBSTITUTING for Christ,as though God were making entreaty through us. As SUBSTITUES for Christ we beg: "Become reconciled to God"
NIV doesn't add 2 words "substituting" and "substitutes"-because its not in the Greek & NO ONE can substitute for the Savior
@barbsinclair Barb, " we implore you on his behalf" what does that mean?? Eg. If I say something on your behalf, I am speaking for you, yes, I am your substitute spokes person.....get it now??
@barbsinclair Wow! I did not know about that verse. Yes I agree NO ONE can replace Jesus, why would we replace Him, He hasn't gone anywhere. We are serving Him.
@FairNskware>"apostate is someone who has denied God and Christ by defiantly going against the true teaching of God's word"
Then these JW are apostate denying the Lord that bought them
2Pe2:1-2"But there were false prophets also among the people,even as there shall be false teachers among you,who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, EVEN DENYING THE LORD THAT BOUGHT THEM and bring upon themselves swift destruction And many shall follow their pernicious ways" Mt10:33;Lk12:9;2Ti2:12-13;Jd4
@FairNskware An apostate is someone who has denied God and Christ by defiantly going against the true teaching of God's word.
This is a loaded statement my friend. It could open up another whole can of worms. I don't believe this man has denied God or Christ, he has denied the WT.
@FairNskware you're entitled to your opinion. But by God's grace, whether an apostate shoving a microphone in my face, an atheist, a Muslim holding a gun to my head, or Satan himself, asks me the question, I pray that I would be able to offer a faithful testimony to the one who has loved me and saved me from God's wrath; regardless of how inconvenient, annoyed, or threatened by the one asking the question. You obviously have a different conviction, and i'll leave you to it.
@entrsnm3 This is not a testimony. Its a commons man who turned his back on Gods teachings and now wants the WORLD to praise him for it. I agree with you that if a Christian was in a situation where thier faith was being tested, that they make a testimony then but seriously, .do you really think the Jw's faith is being tested by this apostate? C'mon!!
@FairNskware "JWs are the only ones obeying the Bible." Oh really, when did they start doing that? They obey the "Slave", whatever the "Slave" says. If the "Slave" says reject family members they do so. The Bible doesn't say that tho.
Worship the "Slave" if you choose. Just remember if you reject Christ before men, he will reject you also.
@FairNskware 2 Cor 6:15 answers your question: "15 Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Be′lial? Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever?"
Belial” was used as a name for Satan and basically means " good for nothing"
@FairNskware>"Jw's are the only ones obeying the bible."
No.
JWs "obey the organization" as commanded by their human religious rulers quote:
WT 5/1/1959 p269
"To hold to the headship of Christ, it is therefore necessary to obey the organization that he is personally directing. Doing what the organization says is to do what he says. Resisting the organization is to resist him."
JWs have replaced the Savior Christ Jesus the Lord, with a religious organization of false christs and antichrists
@barbsinclair I am fully aware of what the watchtowers have in them but if you want to be successful in proving your point I suggest using the bible as your source of defense; not literature of an organization you don't belong to...What scripture pertains to what you are trying to say?
@FairNskware>"He's an apostate, a former Jw who is fully aware that the witnesses obey the words in 1 Co 5:9:13. ...he's a coward..."
NWT 1Co5:19-13 describes: fornicators, greedy persons, extortioners, idolaters, a reviler or a drunkard.
You or JWs in this video don't know if this man practices apostasy according to Almighty God! God is watching you, judging right now if your testifying falsely against one of your fellowman: NWT Ex20:16.
i dont agree with this video. they are simply not speaking to him because he does not want to listen and they know that. This man is simply trying to attack and they are not going to play his little game
@mydopamean so when the early church was being persecuted by people who obviously didn't want to listen, do you think they had the same reaction as these JW's?
@entrsnm3 i would say things might have been diff if they had. Maybe for the better, or maybe worse. Either way i dont see it as being wrong to ignore someone who is just there to cause trouble. Hes going about it the wrong way is all. Immature
@mydopamean I don't know, he seemed very candid to me and was just asking a question. It would be different if he was yelling or directly insulting them. But even so, isn't Matthew 10:33 meant to apply to the worst of opposition?
@mydopamean The truth is that they can't give a yes or no answer to his question. Because there are are a lot of strings attached to following Christ according to the organization. To them you can't follow Christ without being associated with the organization. And that is a real Apostate message. Jehovah's Witnesses follow (real) apostates, not Christ
@mydopamean>"This man is simply trying to attack and they are not going to play his little game"
In this video the man asked the JWs a question "do you follow the Christ?"
I never saw him "trying to attack" anyone. I viewed him on the video as actually behaving quite nicely.
So, in case I missed something:
Please, give me and the readers here a time marker in the video, where he was "trying to attack". We would like to see that portion of the video where you consider him attacking anyone.
@jehovahistheonlytrue So motives determine whether or not you confess your allegiance to Christ before men? Perhaps Jesus and the apostles should have ignored the Pharisees altogether since they wanted them dead! But they didn't. They confessed and argued their position even towards those who wanted to kill them.
theapologeticfront 1 year ago
@jehovahistheonlytrue So 99.9% of JW's deny Christ?
theapologeticfront 1 year ago
This guy with the microphone is not a UJW, Notice how he says *Do they follow Christ** or Do They follow christ** Not, DO WE. follow Christ. This is stupidity. Of course JW's follow Christ. Jesus told us to go and make disciples. teaching them all the good news of the kingdom, Heavenly and Earthly Hope.. Look at other religions.. Catholics for one.. They **foloow Christ** or so they say. Yet they are molesting little kids and stealing money from Church. How pathetic. Would Christ do that?
Love2CuSmile4Me 1 year ago
People, just answer the man's question! I mean, I know they think that talking to him is equivalent to "casting pearls to swine", but seriously, walking away whilst ignoring the guy reeks of an air of superiority and self-righteousness. Even if they know he's not interested in the "truth" he's not being disrespectful, he's just asking them a very simple question. Yes or no, people. What are you, better than him? Will speaking to a lowly and "filthy apostate" lower you that much?
OuttaEgypt 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
For anyone else watching this video: Jehovah's Witnesses are currently studying a book at their meetings which is entitled "COME BE MY FOLLOWER" based on the example and teachings of Jesus and his invitation to us personally to become a follower of his. You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about. If anyone wants to know the truth about what they believe please ask Jehovahs Witnesses themselves next time they knock on your door.
rivers1963 1 year ago
For anyone else watching this video: Jehovah's Witnesses are currently studying a book at their meetings which is entitled "COME BE MY FOLLOWER" based on the example and teachings of Jesus and his invitation to us personally to become a follower of his. You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about. If anyone wants to know the truth about what they believe please ask Jehovahs Witnesses themselves next time they knock on your door.
rivers1963 1 year ago
@rivers1963 Actions speak louder than words. Of course JW's talk about being followers of Christ and study such publications. But when they are placed outside of their comfort zone, such as this video shows, they fail to confess him. They fear man more than they fear Jehovah.
theapologeticfront 1 year ago
@theapologeticfront The reason why they dont answer the man with the microphone is because they know his motives are not out of sincere inquiry but rather only to try to defame JWs. JWs are the only religious organization world wide that proclaim the good news of Gods Kingdom in imitation of Christ. In fact Jesus said "Go and make disciples..."Matt 28:19 They do this in over 235 lands from door to door. Fear man you say?? What about the stand they made against Hitler? Please take a closer look.
rivers1963 1 year ago
@rivers1963 where in Matt. 10:31-32 does it say that its only for those with "sincere inquiry" that we should confess Christ before them? Do you think those whom the early church encountered with severe physical persecution were sincere inquirers?
theapologeticfront 1 year ago
Christians to the lions.Hail SATAN!
217CAESAR 1 year ago
@217CAESAR no need, Christianity is a self defeating cult... :P
IzzyXgallY 1 year ago
Day of the souless dead? Kinda reminds me of a movie I once saw...hmmm....
thehats00 1 year ago
yes, this is simply an apostate. He chooses to use a tactic that is simply fleshly and weak. We don't speak to apostates..why?..because the bible says not to even greet them. They are traitors. If this guy was honest, he would know we follow Christ. But, we obey Paul when he said to not greet, eat, etc with people like this. I wouldn't speak with Judas either if he were living.
brofun 1 year ago
Interesting vid. I have been to a few of these conventions and (as we saw in this video) it is really difficult to get JWs to even grant you some common courtesy when you approach them like this. I found though that if you go a bit further afield from the convention you can give out tracts and some will take them.
Shazoolo 1 year ago
The only reason they weren't answering him is because they have been told he's an apostate. That's all there's to it. And that's all it takes for a JW to ignore you, the WT says "jump" and they ask how high. I remember seeing people like this man at an assembly once, they were holding up signs with scripture verses and we were told not to look at them, let alone talk to them. They're simply following the WT's orders because they believe those orders come from God himself.
Hokabelle 1 year ago
@Hokabelle Jehovah's witnesses follow what the bible says and the bible says not to talk to apostates. Each Witness trains his conscience in accord with bible principles and eventually we all answer to God individually for our actions. It is not a matter of following "orders" as you call it, from the WT society . It is a matter of obedience to Jehovah God and His son Jesus by following what the Bible says. We take a spiritual viewpoint not a fleshly one.
rivers1963 1 year ago
@rivers1963 Yeah I have the sheet music to this tune, after all, it is exactly what I used to believe as well. But you're not really fooling anyone, least of all those who've been there and done it all. And for the record I am a fully fledged apostate, so you know what to do, but then again do it in accordance to your conscience.
Hokabelle 1 year ago
HA...What "tremendous fear"?,,,,I see no fear. I see disciples of Christ obeying him.
JAKEV25 1 year ago
Does the producer realize that a recent convention was entitled..."Follow the Christ"
I say we are following the Christ by not casting pearls to swine....
JAKEV25 1 year ago
@JAKEV25 interesting. You would REFUSE to say "yes" when asked, "Do you follow Christ," but here you are on YouTube, commenting on the video of that very person who would ask you the question! In addition, I see you all over the comment sections interacting with "opposers and apostates" (pearls before swine?). I guess double standards don't apply to you?
entrsnm3 1 year ago
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FairNskware 1 year ago
@entrsnm3 No I would not and neither would any JW. They are not stupid. They know who you are. And you are just trying to prove a mute point. We follow the Christ more than you do....We actually have the same God Christ does.....you do not.
What you are trying to do is incite an argument...we are not here to argue but to preach....listen or do not.
You really are ridiculous....They JW will not engage you so you come up with this silly hpothesis..Nice try.
JAKEV25 1 year ago
@JAKEV25 watch it again he did mention the past convention and what it was entitled.
hopecharstar 1 year ago
@JAKEV25 If you would have listened to the video, you would have heard him say that it was the theme a few years ago.
earnestlyseeking 1 year ago
Excuse me,,,,but were we not told NOT to cast pearls to swine? The JW know you are not honest hearted and are not seeking to know the truth. What fellowship have we with the unbelievers? I commend the JW character. Jesus said if a household doesn't listen to you then kick of the dust from your shoes and MOVE ON>
JAKEV25 1 year ago
@JAKEV25 oh, I see. So the only time you don't deny Christ is when someone is seeking the truth? Yeah, i'm sure the early persecuted church refused all the time to give a testimony before those who were not only pestering them (probably much worse than what this man was trying to do), but TRYING TO KILL THEM.
entrsnm3 1 year ago
@entrsnm3 For some reason you think that the JW are stupid people....far from it my friend...They know exactly what this man is trying to accomplish....and it is nothing spiritual.
JAKEV25 1 year ago
@JAKEV25
No matter how much evidence is shown Jake you just refuse to look at the truth of matter. You defer to the whims of The Most notorious False Prophet of modern times.
dhamamy 1 year ago
@dhamamy How funny...Look dhamamy....The evidence is that Christendom is the Most Notorious False Prophet of modern times....not the WBTS.....Is the WBTS perfect?....no...no organization is perfect.
Don't point fingers at us after the bloody history of Catholicism and Protestantism.
What do you think that because we have an imperfect organization we should run into your arms...???? GET REAL. You've caused more death and destruction and havoc than any government in the world...no thanks.
JAKEV25 1 year ago
@JAKEV25
The WT's record of False Prophecy is astounding. The fact that you blindly and arrogantly lump me in with Catholicism and Protestantism shows how presumptious and ignorant your argumentation is. You GET REAL. Watchtower is a Godless organization as is proven by their dozens of failed prophecies.
Jake you overflow with logical fallacies.
dhamamy 1 year ago
@dhamamy ....What are you kidding?...You believe in all the same things...what are the differences?....Need I really look at the history of the Baptist Church dhammy?
Please don't make me go there...I don't want to waste my time or yours.
JAKEV25 1 year ago
@JAKEV25
What??? I am Baptist now? Keep up the ignorance. You wear it well.
dhamamy 1 year ago
@dhamamy ,,,And no, the godless ones are the trinitarians of this world Dhammy. You refuse to see bible truths and thus worship a false triune god. The entire foundation of your faith is built on a lie...the trinity dogma and to keep supporting that lie you would give your very life I would presume...very sad indeed.
JAKEV25 1 year ago
@JAKEV25
(Deut 18:20) “‘However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. .
(Ez 14:10) And they will have to bear their error. The error of the inquirer will prove to be just the same as the error of the prophet,
Jake you ignore these basic bible truths. Good Luck with that.
dhamamy 1 year ago
@dhamamy The JW have never claimed to be foretelling prophets dhamamy...you know this....And if we applied your logic then the disciples of Jesus would have been killed because they too thought that the end was going to come in their lifetimes...You are too easy dhamamy.....better study the biggest false prophets...the trinitarians...
JAKEV25 1 year ago
@JAKEV25
Either you are just another ignorant dub or a liar. Makes no difference to me.
dhamamy 1 year ago
@JAKEV25 That's right Jake, so if you think Mike is "swine" as you imply, then why in the world are you spending your time commenting on his videos? So not only are you dis-obeying the "Slave" according to what you just said you are dis-obeying Christ also. What's up with you Jake? Talk about in-consistency. Are you a fake? Follow your own advise or stop giving it.
earnestlyseeking 1 year ago
Why does he say "the Christ". Why not Jesus Christ. There are many "christs", just one true Jesus Christ.
RPM11111 1 year ago
Well as a dirty muslim, JWs at least figured out that jesus is not god
stssaa 1 year ago
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thehats00 1 year ago
Mike, I think this is an incredible show of the fear that is inspired by the watchtower organization. When supposed witnesses refuse to be recorded discussing their views of Jesus Christ, it shows that they are controlled by the watchtower and not controlled by their convictions to either the Holy Scripture or their belief in the word of Jesus Christ Himself. To let a man-inspired organization so control your ability to openly discuss your convictions to God and Jesus Christ is fear not love.
thehats00 1 year ago
See what happens when you post these types of things, you get all the haters, opposers, ridiculers and apostates united together for one unholy cause which is to deflect the truth about Jesus Christ and his GOD with false reasonings. Wow!... Matt 15:19 applies here: "For example, out of the heart come wicked reasonings, murders, adulteries, fornications, thieveries, false testimonies, blasphemies."
You realize you guys all band together in hate. Do you think that's a good thing?
FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware You are seeking out these videos. Why? No need to answer...that is for you to self reflect on. Now, if our opinions bother you, and you are happy in your faith...go about your business, and do not seek us out.
inspirediam 1 year ago
@inspirediam We all can say that about each other can't we. These video are directed to Jw's. Are you a Jw or an ex one? Sometimes I get the urge to make a stand on here, and sometimes I let the mire sit where it is. It depends on my mood. I believe we all have freewill. I use mine the way I see fit and according to Gods law and not according to any man.
FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware I am me, I don't label myself. I am human, part of humanity. I understand what you mean about getting the urge to make a stand or a point, and at other times simply letting it be...depending on the mood. Yes, I see this in myself too.
inspirediam 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@FairNskware I am me, I don't label myself. I am human, part of humanity. I understand what you mean about getting the urge to make a stand or a point, and at other times simply letting it be...depending on the mood. Yes, I see this in myself too.
inspirediam 1 year ago
Mike, going on past experience, I would say that most of the people who are being asked this question at this convention are probably more concerned about getting together with their friends after the session for food and drink than they are about following Christ. The thinking is "If we put in our time here at the Convention, then we can kick back and relax this evening. We've done our part for this day" "We loyally supported the organization".
These conventions are just big social events.
earnestlyseeking 1 year ago
This is really, really, sad. The public gets to see a different side of JW's, the side that refuses to acknowledge that they follow the Christ. I'm sure the result would be the same even if it was someone else asking them that same question.
This is not some stupid video. It is actually an embarrassing video for them. If I was asked that question, I would eagerly and happily answer yes and attempt to give a witness for my Lord and Savior regardless of who is asking the question.
MrChewy64 1 year ago 2
Oh yea. I just wanted to say how stupid I think videos like this are.
Very low brow.
nibornagrom 1 year ago
@nibornagrom>"I just wanted to say how stupid I think videos like this are. Very low brow"
If all those JWs asked "do you follow the Christ" happily answered "YES" and gave reasons for their faith in Lord Jesus: you'd beam with pride wanting all to see a video showing JWs are true Christians.
But NO, JWs didn't do that! They turned their backs to the questioner and scurried away. Even the 3 saying "yes" did so with heads shamefully down walking away.
That's what people see, and your ashamed.
barbsinclair 1 year ago
What really pains U? The fact we are "JEHOVAH'S Witnesses"?
Or that we do not 'parrot' some fanatical apostate Jesus worshiper disturbing Christians gathering to peacefully worship God?
He admits he is a "JW."
Christians are taught........ by the Bible..... to not interact with this stupid man, that is true.
Does he sound rational to you? Really?
Is this how Jehovah's Witnesses sound when they talk to you? Mike. Really?
Why aren't there any vids of JW's doing this to Jesus Worshipers?
nibornagrom 1 year ago
@nibornagrom To be honest with you Robin, if I didn't attend church this sunday and a JW stood outside the doors as people exited and asked the same question and got the same reaction, I would be extremely saddened and probably appalled; not at the JW (i'd thank him for doing it actually, as much as it hurt me), but at my church. I could not be a part of an assembly that would outright refuse to acknowledge our Lord and Savior.
entrsnm3 1 year ago
@entrsnm3 May I interject here? We are not supporters of men. It is Gods feelings and Christs feelings that we want to always consider. You are saddened because you don't understand this. What if I told you this man KILLS innocent babies for his own pleasure and one of them was your baby sister..how would you view him then? Would you greet him and feel sorry for him. How would your parents feel if they saw you greeting this guy. We must view things Gods way. 1 Co 5:9-13, Matt 10:33
FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware actually, i'd be even more apt, Lord willing, to offer a testimony to him in hopes that the Spirit opens his eyes to the reality that Jesus Christ is capable of saving anyone, regardless of what they have done.
entrsnm3 1 year ago 3
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FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware
You say the reason why JWs don't answer this man's question "Do you follow the Christ" is because he's an apostate, and you say "That's the proof" on why they don't confess Jesus Christ to this man?
No!
That is not the proof at all!
Here is the proof why JWs don't confess Jesus Christ:
All JWs are "A PEOPLE, NOT FOR THE NAME OF JESUS"
WT 2/15/1964 pg109
"They [Jehovah's Witnesses] came to appreciate that they were A PEOPLE, NOT FOR THE NAME OF JESUS"
You should be ashamed!
barbsinclair 1 year ago
@FairNskware isn't 1 Cor. 5:9-13 with regards to "so-called brothers" who are involved in immoral behavior? What does this text have to do with accepting or rejecting an opportunity to affirm or deny your allegiance to Christ?
entrsnm3 1 year ago
@entrsnm3 I was making the point that we throw these so- called brothers out just like 1 Cor 5:9-13 says....This man was obviously thrown OUT because of some unrepentant wrong doing......so realistically he can neither help affirm or deny anyones allegiance to Christ but his own because of the huge chip on his shoulder. Apostates can't help anybody spiritually because of this.Now are they true apostates or only act like ones?....I don't know and this is why we leave things in Jehovahs hands.
FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware again, this passage is talking about wicked, immoral "brothers." I find it amazing that you assume all of this about this man when you actually know nothing about him. What if he was simply disfellowshipped for realizing that the Bible teaches that all true Christians are born again, or for denying another key doctrine of the Watchtower? Would this make him like the wicked "brother" being described in 1 Cor 5? Or are you misapplying this text?
entrsnm3 1 year ago
@entrsnm3 First of all, who in their right mind would go to a religious gathering in which he does not belong and repeat fanatically the same question over and over again knowing he wouldnt be recieved well.... unless he wanted to cause controversy? Is that what the bible teaches. Is this man following the Christ? Is he sound in mind or thinking with a clear mind. 1 Pet 4:7
FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware please answer my last comment with regards to 1 Cor. 5. Is this text not strictly about Christians involved in grossly immoral behavior? Why apply this text to this man when you don't know if/why/how he was disfellowshipped? Again, would this text apply, for instance, to someone who decided to obey Matt. 7:15 and "stay away from" the organization in realizing they were false prophets?
entrsnm3 1 year ago
@entrsnm3 He comments on being ex- Jw's around 6:19 and he puts in text around 7:53 that he doesn't deny that " jws call him apostate.
I don't need to know "WHY" someone was disfellowshipped. Only that they have been. I don't make those decisions, I am not doing any judging. 1 Co 5 is there for a protection to the congregation to guard against unrepentant attitudes. Youtube is rampant with D'fd people which makes commenting serious as sometimes I answer their questions and am not aware.
FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware but what does 1 Cor 5 have to do with this man? You have yet to respond to all the questions asked you about this text, which is strictly with regards to CURRENT so-called brothers who are INVOLVED in wicked, immoral behavior.
In other words, if you knew that this man was disfellowshipped for not believing that, for instance, only 144,000 are born again, would you treat him in the same way that you'd treat a wickedly immoral brother, 1 Cor. 5?
entrsnm3 1 year ago
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FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware that is absolutely not true. Men are disfellowshipped NOT JUST on immoral grounds. Some are df'd strictly on the grounds for not believing in a particular doctrine, in which case 1 Cor 5 would not apply. Not gonna beat a dead horse on this, but this is poof positive for me that you are forced to believe this about 1 Cor. 5 because it is what the org tells you to believe about it, rather than going to the text and letting it speak.
entrsnm3 1 year ago
@entrsnm3 HMMMMMM....I wonder how long I would be welcomed in your church if I started teaching the members that the trinity is false??????\
Not long I bet.
JAKEV25 1 year ago
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FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware But even besides that, how do you even know he is a former JW? Have you talked to him personally? For all you know, he could be exactly like me; someone who has never been a JW, but has done some research and seeks to expose the Watchtower and reach out to JW's.
entrsnm3 1 year ago
@entrsnm3 He said so in the video??
FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware where did he say so in the video? He might have, I just don't recall. Where at exactly?
entrsnm3 1 year ago
@FairNskware Greetings:) Out of all due respect, as Mike first said at the beginning even if it's "satan himself asking this question" we should stand tall and BOLDLY answer YES, I DO!!!!
So it's plain and simply as scripture states, no tricks the question should be able to be answered no matter who asks it.
This puts me in mind of the Columbian School shooting in Colorado, when the Christian teenage girl was asked right before she was shot, "Do you believe in God". I
hopecharstar 1 year ago
@hopecharstar So, who do you think 1 Co 5:9-13 and Matt 10:33 applies to? Is there somebody worse than Satan that these scriptures pertain too?? You are saying blatently I might add that You and everybody here(except any jws) would socialize with Satan even though God specifically warns us not to in the above scriptures......that is unbelievable. Who could be more apostate than Satan. True Christians will want to stay away from anybody like him. We determine motives by their FRUITS.Matt 7:16
FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware 11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a BROTHER..Would you call this man your brother?I have never been a JW,so if I may ask the question,"Do you follow the Christ",would you answer me?All any JW would need to do is answer his question that the Lord Jesus tells us to do in Matt 10:33 no matter WHO ask it.He is by no means trying to stir the pot,he is witnessing as he is commanded to do by Christ.God Bless you :)
hopecharstar 1 year ago
@FairNskware Are you serious? Reconsider your example to prove your point.
inspirediam 1 year ago
@inspirediam Sorry, I didn't catch your point. Please explain?
FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware I know you'll say this is different, but what if he ask that question instead? It still wouldn't matter, it should be answered to but I bet they would do the same thing.
The day will come when we who are still alive will be asked to deny or renounce our faith if we want to live. Will you answer the question then?
God Bless :)))
hopecharstar 1 year ago
@hopecharstar Yes, I agree we do need to answer to God in everything we do as that is reflected in our FAITH in Jesus ransom sacrifice. But, simply not speaking to a person who obviously just wants to "stir the pot" and is in no way trying to encourage his fellow man...this is not renouncing our faith. That is like putting a naughty child into the corner, and then someone saying to you, " You hate God" because of your diciplinary actions.....Its rediculous.
FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware This is how the WT has taught you to believe in what disfellowshipping means. Yes I totally believe a person in the church should be handled accordingly when not following God's law. But for a persons friends and family to 'basically' turn their noses up or look away and not speak as if they didn't even exist is totally unexceptable.
hopecharstar 1 year ago
cont...
Does this make the person want to come back because they are deeply sorry for breaking God's law or are they lonely and scared and miss their friends and family. And this can really be hard on the ones that know no other way of life outside the WT. So are the actions of the disfellowshipped person returning to the flock geniue or just out of fear?
hopecharstar 1 year ago
This cannot even be compared with discipling a child when they are misbehaving. May the Lord Jesus Christ Bless you and open your eyes to the truth of His word.
hopecharstar 1 year ago
@hopecharstar Call it what you like but the bible set things straight when it says this at Heb 12:11 "True, no discipline seems for the present to be joyous, but grievous; yet afterward to those who have been trained by it it yields peaceable fruit, namely, righteousness."
FairNskware 1 year ago
@hopecharstar But can't you see the WORLD is teaching you to disregard God's laws. Is it not better to err on the side of caution, and shun things that are even mentioned in the bible??
FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware If I may say we had an incident in our church involving the youth pastor.He was removed from his position and rightly so.And of course there were other actions taken.And what he had done was made known.But the congregation showed the love of God even more to this man.Yes he repented.Grant you I totally understand there are the unrepented sinners and each should be handled accordingly.I know of some that do not care and I know of some that care and need fellowship to help stop.
hopecharstar 1 year ago
cont...
and when I say fellowship, I mean with people he/she may feel closer to that he/she could talk to and they could witness to him/her with the love of Jesus to help bring him/her back. A person most definitely needs to feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit for his/her wrong doings and don't you think this can be done with love by witnessing and reading God's word?
hopecharstar 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Oh, by the way we got side-tracked. You never answered my question. 11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a BROTHER..Would you call this man your brother?I have never been a JW,so if I may ask the question,"Do you follow the Christ",would you answer me?All any JW would need to do is answer his question that the Lord Jesus tells us to do in Matt 10:33 no matter WHO ask it.
hopecharstar 1 year ago
@hopecharstar Yes, I do. The key is repentance. Does the person feel sad or regretful of his sinful course, would he do it different if he had the chance, is he taking active steps so that it doesnt happen again etc....God loves all of us, and he want us all to come to repentance. But what I am talking about with this guy in the video is a truly unrepentant wrong doer, a blatant mocker of sorts...these type of people are who the scriptures are speaking of...they are trying to get a following.
FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware Ok, I think we're getting on two subjects. I agree that the definition for apostate is a person who forsakes his religion. So my question to you is if he does not believe in what you believe would you call him your brother? No? Then let's go to the verse you quoted,11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a BROTHER. So my next question should you not be able to answer the question? "Do you follow the Christ"?
Peace :)
hopecharstar 1 year ago
@hopecharstar He was a brother, he said he was a former witness in the video. Do you understand now?
FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware I understood from the beginning my dear. As you quoted it states in the NWT in 1Cor:11, 11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone CALLED a BROTHER. The man in the vid according to you and the WT is of satan, he is NOT you brother. So my question still stands, should you not be able to answer the question that Jesus spoke of in Matt 10:32? This is a simple yes or no answer if we take what your saying along with the verses you've quoted.
hopecharstar 1 year ago
@hopecharstar I think your missing the point here. If the man were of a different religion, knew nothing about the witnesses except heresay and decided he didnt like what he heard, went to the stadium where they were gathering and ask that question to illicit information for himself....then yes we would gladly answer this question and perhaps ask him if he wanted a bible study to clear up the falsehoods he was taught. However, this is NOT the case. This man was called a brother at one time.
FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware Doesn't the WT teach that Christendom is of satan? And please I don't mean to keep repeating myself, but does not 1Cor5:11 refer to someone who you would call a brother now, in the present tense? Also, I am a woman of a different religion and I know we're not in front of the stadium, but I'm asking you the same question again, "do you follow the Christ"? Please my dear this is an important question. If you don't want to answer I understand, but at least ask yourself the question.
hopecharstar 1 year ago
@hopecharstar Of course I follow the Christ. so do all Jw's. There is a difference between ones who are leading an immoral life due to ignorance or birth teaching than to someone who came to a accurate knowledge of what the bible teaches, dedicates their life, gets baptized fully acknowledging what they are doing..... and then turns away. That is what 1 Cor 5 calls a wicked brother....Christendom is false religion and we need to get out it.
FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskwareOut of all due respect I don't believe you do and according to 2Cor5:20 you quoted, the WT has substitued themselves for Christ. These slight little changes that were made to the Holy Scriptures by the WT can make a grave difference in what one beliefs. This man along with many others that left are not leaving the truth they are returning to the truth. They thought they had accurate knowledge and realized something didn't add up. This is why these videos are made to help show you.
hopecharstar 1 year ago
@hopecharstar **sigh** You asked me a question, I answered it. If you already knew what I would answer( surely you didnt think I would say I don't) then your question was a set up, and unkind. Is that what your want me to think? In regards to 2 Co 5:20 have a look at the NIV...it says the same basic thing...don't go on the words of men on here,..always look for yourself before you give an answer. This video is nothing but a foolish attempt to bring dishonor to God and His son...
FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware By no means did I mean to come off unkind. The question had to be answered before I could go on. Witnesses do that all the time at the door. You know what the homeowners answer will be, but you still need to ask it and hear the answer, it would be rude to answer it for them even though you were trained to know how they will respond. So I was not trying to be mean.
And I am amazed you do not see the difference in how 2Cor5:20 is rendered in these 2 translations.
hopecharstar 1 year ago
@hopecharstar Are you and ex-jw then?
FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware Is this a trick question? :))) I made this statement in one of the comments above. I have never been a JW.
hopecharstar 1 year ago
@hopecharstar No, sorry I didn't catch that. Just makin sure. To answer your question, when Jws go to your door, they have no idea what you will answer as they have no idea what faith you are or if you even believe in God. You knew what I would answer. You probably should have just went ahead with your argument based on your assumption instead of agonizing over and over again until I said what you wanted. It was fruitless. But no worries, I don't hold grudges, next time be more forth coming.
FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware No problem.;) I guess I just see things differently. I would think it to be rude to answer for someone even if I know what their answer would be. The whole thing and you well know this, that when witnessing this is what you do so that it will lead to the next question/response.
Please check out this video:
youtube.com/watch?v=WiDy3Ivo1mg&feature=related
hopecharstar 1 year ago
@hopecharstar I agree, it is usually rude to answer for another..but an obvious question like "do you belong to the Christ", to openly professed Christians like Jws, like me ...is kinda sketchy. We don't ask those kinds of questions, but I know what you mean though.
FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware Did you check out the video link? :)
hopecharstar 1 year ago
cont... And if I may, don't you consider it strange that in the 1800's we had (that I know of) two new revelation from God. One came from a man called Joseph Smith and the other Charles Russell. Your life just happened to follow the path started by Charles Russell. I myself will stick with the Holy Scriptures that were given to us by God that biblical scholars from different sides came together and determine what God was conveying to us through the writings of the prophets and apostles.
hopecharstar 1 year ago
@FairNskware>"We are not supporters of men"
Prove it! Publicly strongly condemn JW human religious rulers for commanding:
WT4/1/07p24
"when we LOYALLY SUBMIT TO direction of the FS and its GB, we are submitting to Christ, the slave's Master ...ALL in the congregation VIEW IT AS THEIR SACRED DUTY to follow & uphold direction coming from FS and its GB"
"Fear God and keep *HIS commandments FOR THIS IS THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN" Ecc12:13 Ac5:29 "We must obey God as ruler rather than men" *Jn14:15
barbsinclair 1 year ago
@nibornagrom>"What really pains U? The fact we are "JEHOVAH'S Witnesses"?"
Holy Father sent His Son Jesus Christ as His ONLY Witness, ONLY one ordained to come in the name of Jehovah. Since the beginning, the only true and faithful witness of Holy Father is His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus is Holy, the Way, the Truth and the Life having the Name of YHWH. Christians witness of Jesus Christ
WBTS jw-religious org: "take[s] up the name of Jehovah your God in a worthless way" NWT Ex20:7
barbsinclair 1 year ago
WOW! so many denied. this has to be clear proof that JW's are not Christian
TNAguy2000 1 year ago
straight fear,..... its ok to acknowledge a simple question.
jaymurtii 1 year ago
He's an apostate, a former Jw who is fully aware that the witnesses obey the words in 1 Co 5:9:13. He KNEW he would get this reaction and filmed it so as to get sympathy from the world.....he's a coward as he has buckled to the worlds low sink of debauchery...1 Pet 4:4 and you're praising it. Faith in Jesus is not defined by merely words but a heart condition reflected by good deeds. It's funny how people jump right on this like a vicious mob when the Jw's are the only ones obeying the bible.
FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware But what about Matthew 10:33? Isn't that about publicly acknowledging Jesus before MEN, aka THE WORLD? This video made my stomach turn and I really didn't want to post it. But I wanted JW's to feel what I would feel if I saw people who I thought were true Christians doing the same thing. There is nothing in Matthew 10:33 about making exceptions for apostates. In fact, in the context for the early church, it was answering people who were trying to kill them.
entrsnm3 1 year ago
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FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware I was declared an apostate because I didn't believe all the teachings of the organization. I didn't reject Christ. It was lack of loyalty to the organization that deemed me an apostate. The Bible does not command us to be loyal to anyone accept God. That was the problem in Jesus day. People had to choose between the Organization (the Jewish system) and Christ. The same is true today.
earnestlyseeking 1 year ago
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FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware My Bible doesn't use the term (anointed) in Matt. 25, and I don't think yours does either. Stop changing the Bible.
earnestlyseeking 1 year ago
@FairNskware>"ambassadors substituting for Christ, as though God were making entreaty through us. As substitutes for Christ we beg: "Become reconciled to God." - 2Cor5:20"
There's NO "substituting" or "substitute" for Lord Jesus Christ!
NWT in 2Cor5:20 purposely added the English word "substituting" in a most demonic way:
All claiming to be "substitutes for Christ" are "FALSE CHRISTS" Mt24:24;Mk13:22 [pseudochristos]. This is deceivers, of the spirit of ANTICHRIST/S 1Jn2:18-22; 4:3; 2Jn1:7
barbsinclair 1 year ago
@barbsinclair
Barb the NIV says the same basic thing. Take it up with Paul NIV20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.
FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware"NIV says the same basic thing"
No.
2Co5:20
NIV "We are therefore Christ's ambassadors,as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God"
NWT "We are therefore ambassadors SUBSTITUTING for Christ,as though God were making entreaty through us. As SUBSTITUES for Christ we beg: "Become reconciled to God"
NIV doesn't add 2 words "substituting" and "substitutes"-because its not in the Greek & NO ONE can substitute for the Savior
barbsinclair 1 year ago
@barbsinclair Barb, " we implore you on his behalf" what does that mean?? Eg. If I say something on your behalf, I am speaking for you, yes, I am your substitute spokes person.....get it now??
FairNskware 1 year ago
@barbsinclair Wow! I did not know about that verse. Yes I agree NO ONE can replace Jesus, why would we replace Him, He hasn't gone anywhere. We are serving Him.
Amen!
hopecharstar 1 year ago
@FairNskware>"apostate is someone who has denied God and Christ by defiantly going against the true teaching of God's word"
Then these JW are apostate denying the Lord that bought them
2Pe2:1-2"But there were false prophets also among the people,even as there shall be false teachers among you,who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, EVEN DENYING THE LORD THAT BOUGHT THEM and bring upon themselves swift destruction And many shall follow their pernicious ways" Mt10:33;Lk12:9;2Ti2:12-13;Jd4
barbsinclair 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@FairNskware An apostate is someone who has denied God and Christ by defiantly going against the true teaching of God's word.
This is a loaded statement my friend. It could open up another whole can of worms. I don't believe this man has denied God or Christ, he has denied the WT.
hopecharstar 1 year ago
@FairNskware you're entitled to your opinion. But by God's grace, whether an apostate shoving a microphone in my face, an atheist, a Muslim holding a gun to my head, or Satan himself, asks me the question, I pray that I would be able to offer a faithful testimony to the one who has loved me and saved me from God's wrath; regardless of how inconvenient, annoyed, or threatened by the one asking the question. You obviously have a different conviction, and i'll leave you to it.
entrsnm3 1 year ago 6
@entrsnm3 This is not a testimony. Its a commons man who turned his back on Gods teachings and now wants the WORLD to praise him for it. I agree with you that if a Christian was in a situation where thier faith was being tested, that they make a testimony then but seriously, .do you really think the Jw's faith is being tested by this apostate? C'mon!!
FairNskware 1 year ago
@entrsnm3 Well said Mike... Amen and Amen.
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
@entrsnm3....Hmmmm....Did Christ tell us to preach or debate the gospel? That man was looking for a debate and every JW knew it that walked by him.
JAKEV25 1 year ago
@FairNskware "JWs are the only ones obeying the Bible." Oh really, when did they start doing that? They obey the "Slave", whatever the "Slave" says. If the "Slave" says reject family members they do so. The Bible doesn't say that tho.
Worship the "Slave" if you choose. Just remember if you reject Christ before men, he will reject you also.
earnestlyseeking 1 year ago
@FairNskware 2 Cor 6:15 answers your question: "15 Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Be′lial? Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever?"
Belial” was used as a name for Satan and basically means " good for nothing"
Again, Jw's are the only ones obeying the bible.
FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware>"Jw's are the only ones obeying the bible."
No.
JWs "obey the organization" as commanded by their human religious rulers quote:
WT 5/1/1959 p269
"To hold to the headship of Christ, it is therefore necessary to obey the organization that he is personally directing. Doing what the organization says is to do what he says. Resisting the organization is to resist him."
JWs have replaced the Savior Christ Jesus the Lord, with a religious organization of false christs and antichrists
barbsinclair 1 year ago
@barbsinclair I am fully aware of what the watchtowers have in them but if you want to be successful in proving your point I suggest using the bible as your source of defense; not literature of an organization you don't belong to...What scripture pertains to what you are trying to say?
FairNskware 1 year ago
@barbsinclair
I thought at this point it would be appropriate to point out once again that "the organization" is God's heavenly kingdom on earth and in heaven.
All, faithful to God, are part of that "organization".
The apostate factor is an overwhelming fact in the reaction of the crowd to this man.
It's a wonder he didn't pull out some snakes and drink a bottle of poison!
nibornagrom 1 year ago
@FairNskware>"He's an apostate, a former Jw who is fully aware that the witnesses obey the words in 1 Co 5:9:13. ...he's a coward..."
NWT 1Co5:19-13 describes: fornicators, greedy persons, extortioners, idolaters, a reviler or a drunkard.
You or JWs in this video don't know if this man practices apostasy according to Almighty God! God is watching you, judging right now if your testifying falsely against one of your fellowman: NWT Ex20:16.
The only cowards in this video are the JWs!
barbsinclair 1 year ago
That made my stomach hurt. (and no, that doesn't mean I am now a Mormon) That was tragic and quite appalling.
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
@21crosscheck21 yeah, made mine hurt too...in like the drinking battery acid sort of way
entrsnm3 1 year ago
This made me weep for those people. They are all on the wrong road heading for a ditch.
Christ Jesus our Lord, touch more, call more out of that dark religion into your marvelous light, call them unto thyself and for thy glory. amen
barbsinclair 1 year ago
@barbsinclair Amen!
earnestlyseeking 1 year ago
i dont agree with this video. they are simply not speaking to him because he does not want to listen and they know that. This man is simply trying to attack and they are not going to play his little game
mydopamean 1 year ago
@mydopamean so when the early church was being persecuted by people who obviously didn't want to listen, do you think they had the same reaction as these JW's?
entrsnm3 1 year ago
@entrsnm3 i would say things might have been diff if they had. Maybe for the better, or maybe worse. Either way i dont see it as being wrong to ignore someone who is just there to cause trouble. Hes going about it the wrong way is all. Immature
mydopamean 1 year ago
@mydopamean They aren't talking to him because he's an outsider.
JBSauce 1 year ago
@mydopamean Oh really, How does that square with I Peter 3:15. Where in Scripture does it say not to take to people about the Gospel?
Psylliumhead 1 year ago
@mydopamean I don't know, he seemed very candid to me and was just asking a question. It would be different if he was yelling or directly insulting them. But even so, isn't Matthew 10:33 meant to apply to the worst of opposition?
entrsnm3 1 year ago
@mydopamean The truth is that they can't give a yes or no answer to his question. Because there are are a lot of strings attached to following Christ according to the organization. To them you can't follow Christ without being associated with the organization. And that is a real Apostate message. Jehovah's Witnesses follow (real) apostates, not Christ
earnestlyseeking 1 year ago
@mydopamean>"This man is simply trying to attack and they are not going to play his little game"
In this video the man asked the JWs a question "do you follow the Christ?"
I never saw him "trying to attack" anyone. I viewed him on the video as actually behaving quite nicely.
So, in case I missed something:
Please, give me and the readers here a time marker in the video, where he was "trying to attack". We would like to see that portion of the video where you consider him attacking anyone.
barbsinclair 1 year ago