i feel like there's something about mass effect 2 that TOTALLY BLOWS, but i can't pinpoint what it is or what exactly sucks, but i know there's something wrong with it and this counter-review doesn't help =/
stupid EA.... ruined such a good game..
now i'm not gonna watch the whole 30 minutes of this cuz it's bed time, but I HATE HOW THERE'S AMMO IN THIS GAME NOW!!! W T F!!!! "heat clips keep your weapon from overheating," so that means i can shoot once in a while without a heat clip? herp, no.
These arguments against smuTboys' are totally right. Smutboy just nitpicks supposed "flaws" that aren't actually flaws but are instead aspects of the game/story that he simply doesn't like.
@Terralventhe But that could bring to question if Magneto could only manipulate and that is all. Or that he has a jurisdiction over the magnetism in metals. This would mean there are some metals he can't control. But in regards to Earth, you could think of the planet as one huge magnet.
I take back the huggles. The only huggles go to Squee, for having to put up with that arrogant, lonely, delusional hypocrite who considers his opinion 'fact'.
Gotta say I pretty much entirely agree with.. smudboy. And yes I like Mass Effect 2 a lot(8 playthroughs). Also, I don't think that smudboy is a hater of ME.
Hmm, this Smudboy sounds like the type of guy who would want to see the engine designs on Star Trek because "Warp" is technical jargon and isn't believable.
Too much angry in these comments. Not enough huggles. HUGGLES. <3
I agree with you Squee913. oh and for the haters this story does have an established lore that it follows. think about it. one could also argue that the collectors killed shepard and tried to get the body so that they could do the EXACT SAME THING, bring him or her back with their tech in him to activate later like the did with saren. think about it.
I wish I could find a clip from one of Linkara's reviews where he breaks down that 'just because it is science fiction, doesn't mean you can pull random crap out of your ass'. As I recall it, he was referring to the aspect of a comic wherein Magneto supposedly shifted the earth's polarities - something which he shouldn't be able to do because that's not his mutant power. Similarly, Smudboy has a point in that if you establish something, then you can just add random new facets to it conveniently.
@Terralventhe And I could argue that the idea that once you establish a world you cannot introduce new concepts is silly. Almost every story has aspects about the world and it's tech that is revealed later in the story. What you are saying is that Star Trek should not have added Shape Shifters simply because they were never in the Next Generation.
@squee913 I wasn't aware I said 'new concepts can't be added'. I'm pretty sure I said you can't dick around with pre-established concepts. Or is it perfectly reasonable for me to thus state 'fire burns you' in my work of fiction, and then turn around and say 'no wait, fire doesn't burn you, fire freezes you. Just 'cause.'
Awh Smudboy wishes he was RedLetterMedia. You did a fair impression of what they did...Just minus the funny. And your voice just sounds....its hard to describe, its like you never experienced joy in your life.
(continuation) It is reasonable to ask scientific rigor to this series.
3) (Take this one with a grain of salt) When something looks fishy in a story and is left unexplained, there is a problem. It's not the job of the audience to try to fill the gap with an exotic explanation. I'm talking about things like the destiny of Shepard's corpse and the murder of Wilson (I don't like the explanation of Smud on this one though). They feel wrong and should have had an explicit explanation.
1) RPGs don't work as you said. Yes, the player has to imagine the evolution of their character, but the game has to show a good approximation of what you are imagining or it's not a good game. A flat protagonist doesn't cut it just because it's role-playing.
2) Sci-fi has to be scientifically plausible or is not sci-fi. I understand this sentence may be not a consensus, but Mass Effect has a rigurous scientific background (check the in-game encyclopedia). (continued...)
@MichaelPalin1 so... starwars is not sci fi? Fire Fly is not sci fi? Dune is not sci fi? matrix is not sci fi? that;s just silly. Mass effect works because a mystical element changes the mass of things.... how is this any more believable than the Lazarus project?
3) problem, what you think was fishy, I felt the game explained as much as was need.
@squee913 The definition of sci-fi may not be a consensus, but I think your definition is definitely not the most accepted one. Why is StarWars sci-fi? Because it's in space? Star Wars deals with mystic powers with zero scientific base (I only know the movies, don't ask for the rest). Mass Effect deals with an existing scientific phenomenon (check dark energy in the wikipedia) and tries to give a scientific explanation to it. Don't call it "mystical" just because you don't understand it.
@MichaelPalin1 You are saying Star wars is not considered Sci Fi and you think MY definition is not commonly accepted? Also, i believe you are the one that does not understand what we know about dark energy since nothing about it ever suggests it can change the mass of an object. As far as we know in the story, nothing has even linked dark energy to the mass effect phenomenon yet.
@squee913 You have not explained WHY Star Wars is sci fi (again, I talk about the movies). Yes, there are robots and spaceship, do anybody in the movie explain how they work in a scientific way? No, there is NO scientific explanations in Star Wars. Really, check the definition of sci fi somewhere, you'll be surprised.
Eezo is what creates dark energy, dark energy exists in real life and makes the universe expand, changing the mass of an object is a PLAUSIBLE explanation. Eezo is sci fi material.
@MichaelPalin1 Plausible? show me one scientific paper that suggests dark energy changes the mass of anything. Then you might have an argument. The ability to change mass is impossible by our knowledge of science. Mass effects bases everything off this impossibility. so by that definition it was never sci-fi in the first place.
@squee913 Ok, maybe it is not very plausible, but don't pretend you why or you know what to do with a physics paper. And you seem to bend the definition of sci fi with every new post, I don't know anymore whether you consider ME sci fi. Who said sci fi have to have scientific publication accuracy? You can make up your own theories, you only need it to be based on existing science and make its repercussions coherent. Period. Mass Effect does it with many of its elements, so it's sci fi.
I don't respect smudboy one bit to be honest. I pointed out many flaws in his logic and his reaction basically was to call me a "faggot" then block me.
One thing I can appreciate from squee913 is his humility & understanding of Sci-fi. The problem with smud is his constant reference of realism (or what's logically in his own mind) corresponding with the already established world of ME. That's the beauty of fiction... Something Smud doesn't comprehend nor appreciate.
Continued from Part 1....If a guy you think is cool turns out to actually be a jerk, you will treat them differently. You are simply acting in accordance to your unchanged personality based on new information. What Smudboy means is that Shepard is put through many situations which should be altering his character - only they don't. For Christ's sake, the guy was dead for 2 years, but you could have thought he was waking up from a nap based on the emotion he exhibits.
@fedex12345678 The point of an RPG is that you are filling Shep's shoes. If they give him motivation for something, and it does not mach what you wanted for him, you detach yourself from the game. Treating people differently is still called character development, and slowly going from paragon to renegade or vice versa is most certainly a personality shift.
@squee913 What if I don't like the council, but think the renegade responses are idiotic? I suppose you yourself could become really jaded over the course of the game and sort-of change that way. I kind of get what you're saying, but I think you're kinda missing the point here. Shepard was dead for 2 years! (this is just 1 example) Like holy crap! What if this was you? Wouldn't you be doing some serious soul-searching or reflection or asking others about it or
@squee913 or considering the philosophical implications of coming back from the dead or doing, you know, anything at all?? Like what the hell? There's nothing! If you honestly believe Shepard's death at the beginning of the game was done for anything but generating marketing hype, you need to start asking yourself how objective you are being here. I agree Shep needs to be a little bland for all players to feel like they could really be him/her, but come on! Nothing at all?
@fedex12345678 I will be the first to admit I would have liked something like that, but since i feel the game was not about Shepard, but the people and places around him, I don't feel it broke the story.
@squee913 Dude, you just said it yourself: Shepard is the protagonist and the story isn't about him? That doesn't even make sense! The sub-plots about his companions were fine, but they were disconnected from the main plot; they played like side-quests. Only they constituted like 95% of the game. So what are we left with in the other 5% exactly? A giant mess that contradicts its own in-universe lore and a lot of sloppy writing. I can't understand how someone would want to defend it.
@fedex12345678 It makes perfect sense to me. The first game was about learning who Shepard is, the second game is about learning why you care about saving the world around you. I suppose some don't agree that is a good way to go. difference of opinion I suppose :)
@squee913 Also, I want to make it clear I'm not just some internet hater. I really like the Mass Effect series as well as other BioWare games. The rest of Mass Effect 2 was pretty damn impressive, but we are talking specifically about the plot here, which was abysmal. I was genuinely saddened by this, especially because it was the sequel to a video game with a great story. The drop in quality between games just defies my comprehension.
@fedex12345678 I for one would never call anyone a hater. The idea is simply insulting. People who use the term simply can't grasp that someone might have a different point of view and calling someone a hater/fanboy allows them to keep their mis-guided view that their opinion is the only right one. You are no less a person for disagreeing with me. In fact I respect people like you who can debate something with a level head far more than people like Smud who use personal insults like hater/fanboy
Shepard doesn't change. There is no narrative at all that has Shepard confronting his many, many issues. The player does not have to choose a way in which to deal with these issues. That is how the player could control Shepard's development. Your examples do not show his character developing - sure, you can choose to treat others differently as you learn more about them, but that is simply changing your course of action because you have gained more information. continued...
Personally, I preferred the plot and antagonists of the first game, but everything else about the second.
There were just a lot more twists and developments in the first game, and the antagonists were well developed.
The second came, was a little too straight forward, and the antagonists were completely undeveloped.
The protagonists for ME2 however were deeper, and (other than Jacob) a lot less annoying/boring (though I would have loved to have Liara and Wrex with me.)
@Jonstern1983 I think that was the point. They wanted you to grow to care about the world and saving the people in it more than learning more about the enemy :)
Good arguing. Though too much clinging to his presentation.
Also, there's still the irrational trust towards Cerberus and Miranda. The brain chip comment combined with the inability to decline from working with Cerberus totally started a long running story arc of paranoia for me, one which never had development or resolution.
@fiveMIRrOrs I also think it would have been nice to refuse Cerb, but they have to tell a story, so I don't hold it against them. Besides, who else would fund you? I concentrated a lot on his presentation because it is so important in debate. If you look at the BSN forums you will see tons of people say they could not stand the way he presents things and just stopped watching. If you want to convince people you are right, how you present it is just as important as what you present.
@squee913 I'm okay with that they force you to work for cerberus because of the limited resources, but the point is that they could've somehow allowed you to check that there actually isn't some indoctrination chip in your brain that would allow tIM to go "would you kindly" on your ass at a critical moment. Make it Shepard's own loyalty quest or something. It would've been a great addition to the story.
You do know Cerberus was already big enough to challenge the Alliance and the Council right? LOL.. Have you seen some of the Mass Effect 3 footage..? They're badass
@mamobster1500 first of all, we know nothing of those forces in ME3. We don't know how or when he got them, how big they are, and what their true purpose is. So, we cannot say Cerberus was big enough to challenge anyone. Those forces might have been put together after ME2 for all we know. Besides, all we know is Cerberus is going after Shepard. TIM could only have a force of 500 for all we know and while it is enough to hunt Shep, it would not be strong enough to challenge an army.
@squee913 Well in the codex it states Cerberus indeed a threat to the council and its human representives. Also, not sure if you read the comics or not but cerberus is full of soldiers most of which used to be apart of the alliance... including their top assassin Kai Leng who is one of many foes to come after shephard in Mass Effect 3. Cerberus is also backed by a handful of cooporations. I say that is huge enough to do some damage. If they arent big enough they are strong enough
@squee913 Also if you go to Bioware website and look at Cerberus it states that and I quote.. " How the Illusive Man recruited and trained such a large number of top-line battlefield commanders is a worrying mystery. Cerberus, once comprised of small, covert cells of agents, is now a burgeoning and unconcealed threat to the galaxy." So this and then some proves that Cerberus is in fact LARGE enough to threaten the galaxy.. Not even including the fact that they are with the reapers.
@mamobster1500 It proves that they are NOW. It says nothing about their abilities in ME2. In fact what you said helps prove the point. The fact that they went from small, covert cells of agents in ME2 to a burgeoning and unconcealed threat to the galaxy in ME3 is a mystery.
All in all, smudboy's an ass. On his response videos, he outright insults you, not once did I hear YOU yourself insult him. Typical of a self righteous man who's been questioned! Anf also, I'm pretty sure Mass Effect goes over the genre of Fantasy/Science Fiction, too, considering changing Mass is quite impossible with our current technology.
Mass Effect 2 was damn good in my mind. I know a lot of people aren't open minded but I really enjoyed the game; it was very well written but it had some obvious game-breaking flaws (Squad A.I. was fucking aweful but the Enemy A.I. nearly fucked me in the ass all the time!)
I also didn't like Jacob; he was a pretty big flaw...same with Miri...and the fact I couldn't just tell T.I.M. to piss off whenever I wanted without getting "Renegade Points".....Yeah...
ME2 has a pretty good story, but it's no Baldur's Gate 2 (which had a great story) or Planescape: Torment (which put more emphasis on story than the actual gameplay), but it's still good considering that it's a quite new game (which usually have god awful stories). Just my opinion.
Been watching both Smudboy and your videos and both of you do say stuff that do matter and sounds relevant enough. ME2 got a story that people can debate about and it wasn't the best one but if you think hard enough the stuff actually do make sense
You had the rabbit growing out of Shep's right ear, not his left like yu said. lol.
I felt the game was the "middle child" of the trilogy, which it is, that leaves more questions than it answers. And why is this a trilogy? Because they didn't want to make a single 150 hr game.
@shinobi603 As a game? It was good. But that doesn't mean that everything about it was good. I like someting DOES NOT equal that everything about it is brilliant.
The fact that people can't tell the difference between Reality and Fiction is quite frankly SAD. It's Science Fiction, it's not supposed to make sense. Because if it did, it'd be REALITY. Once again Smud, you're theories are INVALID!
@XeroBones Actually, the more originating appeal of science fiction is that it could be conceived of actually happening, due to science.
The genre you're thinking of would be fantasy, which doesn't make sense if applied to the real world. Star Wars for example is a cross fantasy/sci-fi/action-adventure/romance/drama, otherwise known as a 'space opera'. Blade Runner is a noir science fiction, etc.
@squee913 The hypothetical always exists in sci-fi.
There is a difference between finding a powerful element that is researched for years, and discovering a 'grand amulet of power' that insta-demigods you for no discenable reason.
Sci-fi and fantasy have many overlaps, but a big difference is that sci-fi is conceptually believable (even if far into the future), while fantasy is meant to base upon unrealism and exploration of the more abstract part of imagination.
@SwobyJ Are you suggesting that there was a grand amulet of power in ME? Even the Lazurus project was researched for years, thus it should fit in your description of what is acceptable.
@XeroBones Science Fiction can be of different "Hardness", as in, different degrees of approximation to reality. I read an article were it's demostrated like this:
How does the the time machine work?
Scale 1: It just does. Go with it, OK?
Scale 2: Applied Phlebotinum
Scale 3: Let me tell you about the newest hypothesis in the fields relevant to it
Scale 4: It doesn't. Time travel is impossible.
smudboy's problem is that he things ME is close to 3, whereas it's closer to 2.
@XeroBones have you played the first Deus Ex (2000), System Shock 2, SWKoTOR? those all the examples of science fiction games that make sense. And Mass Effect games took many elements from those games.
@XeroBones Uhm, science fiction is most definately supposed to make sense. A science fiction universe has always got an established lore that it is supposed to follow. Usually science fiction writers try to make their universe as sensible as possible, explaning the technologies etc.
Mass Effect did this fairly well. But then in comes Mass Effect 2 retconing half the established lore...
Btw, mass effect is not science fiction, it's scifi.
I hate how Smudboy's videos are presented. They resemble the 9/11 Documentary In Plane Site. Ok. We're discussing an RPG Video Game, not a Conspiracy Theory! Present yourself differently. Even if he is Egotistic (which seems obvious, given the "I'm the best" attitude from his videos). You're not Sean Connery, so stop. And next time, take a few days ACTUALLY doing research, not completing the game, and then immediatly ranting afterwards Smud. Good Job Squee! (:
Smudboy is so arrogant. No one is an expert on Science Fiction. Especially not him. Does he not understand, that in an RPG, YOU'RE the character?! And they brought Shpeard back, because he can lead the Galaxy! He brings HOPE! They're would be no Civil Rights act without Martin Luther King, Jr, there'd still be slavery without Lincoln. One man ALWAYS makes a difference.
Also, regardless of being resurrected, the events on Akuze would've seriously pissed shepard off at Cerberus. In fact, the resurrection would make it seem like they just wanted to throw him into more experiments.
@S1deshowRobP5 only if your shep was a lone survivor. And it might affect your Shepard but not mine. You are making arguments for Shepard's thoughts which are up to the individual player. Either way, Cerberus is the only one willing to help Shep. He/she has not options.
Wouldn't it make more sense if shepard were in a coma for two years with extensive injuries and being believed dead as opposed to actually dying? It's a sloppy plot point.
@S1deshowRobP5 Not if bioware is trying make a point about shepard being brought back to life. It has been suggested that Reaper tech was used and that this might play a part in ME3. You would not need reaper tech to awaken from a comma. Otherwise, yes you are right, it would be simpler to do as you say. That is why I feel there is something more to it. We wil just have to wait and see.
Sorry squee, but it seems you have no idea as to what makes a good plot. Its pretty obvious that you're just a Mass Effect 2 fanboy. Almost every point that Smud make has some factual, and logical basis behind it. Nearly all of your points are just completely baseless and are just random assumptions.
@STRING3R the fact that you speak in nothing but absolutes makes it hard to take you seriously. I have no idea what makes a good plot, when a "good" plot is completely subjective. Nearly all of my points are completely baseless? Care to name them? Even one of them?
@squee913 Did you even play the first Mass Effect? Now that was a good plot. The antagonist had clear motives, the overarching plot of the reapers/protheans was well developed and Shepard (as well as his crew) were actually integral to the plot due to him being the only person apart from Saren to have the prothean visions.
Fast forward to Mass Effect 2, the writing felt extremely sloppy. Shepard is almost completely pointless to the main plot, and his "resurrection" is handled extremely poorly.
@STRING3R Shepard is the only one with the skill to pull off everything that happened. Just because he didn't have some plot device unique to him does not make him pointless. Frodo didn't have one. He was like every other hobbit except his will was stronger. I felt the resurrection was handled fine. It was the people and events around Shep that were the focus, not him getting over his resurrection ordeal. And nothing you said proves any of my points were baseless.
@heiamll then you missed the point completely. I did not say that doing what ever they want makes a good story, I was pointing out the flaw in the way Smud present his arguments. He talks as if it is law. "You don't do that." Well, they just did. whether it is good or bad, it still proves your statement wrong. My point was that he acted like a critical rule had been broken when there aren't any in the first place. It was an argument against his presentation, not for the plot.
@squee913 A critical rule in fiction is to maintain plausibility. Suspension of disbelief only goes so far. Of course, writers dont have to do this. To call such a move good writing is ridiculous. If it were good (or failing that inconsequential to the audience) ME2 wouldnt be under fire like how it is.
@heiamll really? because LOTR does exactly the same thing in the second book with the death and res of Gandolf. It has almost no reason as to how, yet most of the world consider it to be a good story. And before any says it's fantasy over sci-fi, mass effect has tons of elements of fantasy that are not fully explained. You can't accept those and cry foul over one thing.
What you're saying about Hannibal Barca and Jeane (Sp?) D'Arc is slightly different from the case of Shepard: Whilst those two were generals (Or at least leaders) with great amounts of power, Shepard is still not the top dog in the Alliance military or even Cerberus. Sure, Jeane D'Arc was a peasant, but she worked her way up. Shepard seems to be content at Commander, and doesn't seem to aspire to be a great leader, only aspiring to do his (Admitedly very big) part. The real power is the Council.
@masterplusmargarita Not in TIM's eyes. He believes, or at least says he believes that Shepard is a symbol like the historical figures I used. The thing to remember is that it is not whether or not Shepard was a symbol. It's not whether you or I would think it was worth it. It's all about if TIM felt that way and if HE would have felt it was worth it. The examples were only to show that one person can make a big difference and add weight to the idea TIM would feel this way.
@squee913 I understand your point, this guy does come off as a douche. But he is right, though I think him being right all the time has led to him being smug. He should call himself smugboy.
@FlashlegendSC ME's writers have stated (GI.com) that the Human Reaper was the core of the unfinished Reaper, who's outward appearance will be similar to other Reapers. Who's to say they weren't building Sovereign's replacement, or that all Reapers aren't born this way? Remember this is a trilogy, answers will come.
So after watching smudboy's response...I have a migraine. He pulled some Fox News editing on your clips and pulled them out of context. Very frustrating. He's undoubtedly smart, but he's one narrow, bitter nerd.
@kyleDIESEL it's to be expected, and while I tried to show his arguments as he presented them, I'm sure the same could be said of me (the editing I mean). That is why I encourage everyone to watch both and make up their own mind :)
a work of fiction with gasp....fiction in it! anyway good video valid points blah blah i smell redlettermedia rip off all over this but it's probably just me I can just see this guy thinking wouldn't it be great if mr.plinket reviewed mass effect.
ME2's plot and story are discussed and debated more vigorously than any game I've seen. The rhetoric is on the level with many classic books, shows, and movies. Hmm.
Oh dear lord, I was wrong all this time! *shocked face*
No really, you do make a fine and convincing argument. I will now proceed to watch the rest of the parts, cause I kinda enjoy listening to people that see things my way. :)
@squee913 Great Vid! After 70+ perfect reviews, millions in sales, 110+ goty awards, universal acclaim, and acknowledgement as one of the great games of this gen, Smudboy's criticisms kind of "ring hollow". Redletter media at least had some concensus on his side, with the Star Wars prequels, which is far from the case here.
@bebomac5 I don't believe those awards and sales say much. This entire thing is about how the mass effect 2 plot is severely lacking. Does a mediocre plot in a game with great gameplay, characters and graphics ruin it? For those who aren't intelligence enough to notice, hell no. For those who are? Not necessarily. As the game progressed I knew the overall plot was pretty terrible but I still loved mass effect 2. What i'm trying to say is just because a game does well doesn't mean its perfect.
@FlashlegendSC I would be the first o agree that it is not perfect. However I take issue with you "those not intelligent enough" remark. So, if I think it was a good plot, it is only because I am too stupid to see it's not? Can't I be just as intelligent but have a different point of view?
@squee913 Aww, yes, I admit that remark was a little childish. And honestly I'm not really referring to you. It's just all these fanboys and their comments that dismiss logical analysis because there to dumb to see past their mass effect loving egos. It can really be annoying. Yes, In smudboys videos, he nitpicks here and there but that doesn't mean that all of what he's saying has no validity. But yes, I do appologize for such an untasteful remark.
@FlashlegendSC Honestly, I'm a little envious of fan boys. Think about it, they are able to turn a blind eye to any short comings and feel they have a perfect game. I would love to be able to do that. I agree that smud has valid points. even admit them in my vids. I should also point out, that I am not condemning anyone for their views (ok, maybe a few of the sillier points), but simply offering new perspective on things that might help people understand the plot better.
@CroGamer002 I definitely can't say its bad. Its not like I'm a video game expert but I'm sure there are plenty of games that have plots that are absolutely horrendous. So yes, mediocre but still coming from bioware, which is regarded as a game maker which focuses heavily on story telling, its disappointing. Still, doesn't mean I hate the game . Beaten it 5 times and I've already pre-ordered the ME3 collector's edition.
@FlashlegendSC honestly, I would never argue against that. It's stinks that you didn't like it and I hope ME3 makes up for it in your eyes. The point of the video was never to convince people that it was fantastic (even though I think it was great) but that it made sense for the most part. I wanted to show that it was not some massive pile of unbelievable plot points as Smud claims they are, but are a that the motives and events in the game make sense.
@squee913 There is a great deal that doesn't make sense though. Even if you keep it basic, the collector's plan was to build a human reaper to do? Not to mention just finishing it would have taken a considerably long time(years most likely). And from news coverage at E3 we know that the reapers will be reaching earth 6-12 months after the end of ME2 so the collector plan was pointless. I really didn't care too much about the railroading but this was very perturbing.
People may have a hard time watching Smudboy's vids from start to finish, I'm having a hard time watching your vids. So I stopped after 8 minutes, and everything else that I know of your arguments I know of Smudboy's rebuttal.
And you're saying you're gonna argue against the arguments, not against the person. Then why are you criticizing his use of words (MacGuffin) later?
If you feel ME2's story/plot is so brilliant go argue that, not someone else's analysis.
@LordMida Arguing against someone's methods of making an argument is not speaking bad about the person themselves. If someone said they disagreed with the way you wrote a paper, does that mean they are personally insulting you? Besides that, at least I watched his videos before arguing against them. Your condemning me for an argument you haven't even seen. Not to mention that critiquing my vid and then telling me not to critique someone else's vid is a little pointless.
The upshot of this video seems to be "but I liked it anyway". It comes across as a die-hard fan defending his favorite game just because. That's fine, I enjoyed it too, but Smudboy's questions are valid. But few of them were addressed other than to say "well maybe this, or maybe that". Providing additional hypotheses is missing the point. The fact is, the game doesn't answer those questions, and in many cases it really should have. We shouldn't have to provide our own "maybe" answers.
@CathexisAurore Actually, there were very few "maybe" answers. The fall to the planet, which to be honest is a maybe on both sides, since we never see what happened and people just assume that he fell/burned up/ went splat. The other one was Tim's reasons for resurrecting Shep. The game gave you the reason. TIM felt Shep's status and abilities justified it. The only maybe I gave were to his other motives. It is obvious that TIM had other reasons, and I just suggested a few.
@squee913 But TIM's reason just doesn't seem believable. Because Shepard is a "social icon" or a symbol, you're gonna bring back a man who has possibly caused your organization more problems since its inception AND you're gonna spend 2 years and a sum of money you could hire an entire army with? Really? The social icon thing doesn't even come into play in this game and just seems completely contrived and lazy. His death and immediate resurrection just seem stupid and contrived.
@FlashlegendSC First of all, 4 billion credits would hardly raise an army and sustain it for any length of time. Second, TIM is betting on the fact that Shepard will care far more about stopping the reapers than hurting Cerberus. It's a risk, but not an unbelievable one. The fact that social icon does not come into play is moot since TIM had no way of knowing that would happen. It's not if you feel it was a good move to make, but if it was a believable move for someone like TIM .
@squee913 1. How exactly do you know that? I don't have the greatest grasp on the economics of the Mass Effect world(Nobody does) but that seems like a hefty sum of money and if Shepard says it(which he did) how can you tell me its not true? It was enough to keep a substantially sized research facility going for two years. As for the social icon point being moot; what exactly did TIM, miranda and the rest of cerberus expect Shepard joining them would do? Would a social icon joining a terrorist
@squee913 group, infamous for their heinous experiments, really garner any type of support with any one that actually mattered? Even if we ignore this reasoning and just look at the events of the game. TIM doesn't even attempt to take that angle with shepard. Where does he try to use shepard's signifigance as a social icon/symbol to aid there efforts? It just doesn't make sense and Bioware gets away with it because everything else about the game is amazing. However, some of us like good writing.
the fact is story telling has no official guide lines, its an art done by humanity for god knows how long, there are many ways to tell a story and many different types of stories, no one person can decree that a story is good or bad, can they have an opinion sure but there is no factual basis on which you can grade a story
The game's story was a total disappointment, the terminator boss was the last straw! Bioware need's to bring back the lead writer for Knights of the Old Republic
He was reasonable in his videos but you are just being butthurt and angry. You say that his arguments are really bad but all you say that "he's wasting time" and meaningless bs like this. I love ME and ME2 but I'm going to have to agree with SmudBoy too. His style and the choice of music is hilarious but sadly he is right.
I'm going to have to agree with SmudBoy... I love ME series and ME2, but the resurrection part (one of a few), really left me with a raised eyebrow saying "WTF?"
I agree that they should have killed Shepard, but if they'd planned it with ME1, killed Shepard at the end, left it on a cliff hanger, then resurrected him at the beginning of ME2. It seemed kind of odd that he died then got resurrected immediately...
This video is a perfect blend of humor and logic many if not all of your counter-points are very well founded; though ME2 had flaws(but what game doesn't) it still is a great game with an epic story. Also an army of Zaeeds would have been fucking hilarious and awesome because you know he is the most interesting man in Mass Effect
hey squee, you left out Scipio, who not only defeated Hannibal but LITERALLY wiped carthage off the face of the earth. he's the reason there is no carthage today
@TwistedComplex Oh, I didn't forget, but less people know about him. besides that, Scipio Africanas... I want a name like that :( was so good becasue he studied Hannibal's tactics and used them to fight against him. So in a sense, Hannibal is responsible for Scipio.
awesome man, just awesome! regarding Wilson: as we learn later on, the Collectors went to colonies that had members of Shepard's team stationed there (Horizon for example). Later on they even set a trap for Shepard. They want Shepard! They wanted Shepard before, see comic! Now it hasn't been much of a secret that the remains had been given to Cerberus by Liara. And we know, the Collectors pay enormous sums for whatever they want. Wilson could have been paid by them, changed sides so to speak.
So of course he would make sure that Shepard got ressurrected and then Wilson waited for a somewhat right moment to let whoever (probably mercs working for the Collectors) attack the station and get Shepard so the Collectors would finally get their hands on him/her. makes kinda sense, doesn't it?
@Coombsi Agreed with a slight amendment. We now know that Wilson was working with the Shadow Broker. I think the broker was still trying to make good on his deal to give Shep to the collectors :)
You should try for YouTube stand-up comedy. Just keep doing videos like these only with the intent to be funny. You're pretty good. And I agree fullheartedly with most of it. In fact, I've used some of the same arguments that you brought up when talking to him.
i feel like there's something about mass effect 2 that TOTALLY BLOWS, but i can't pinpoint what it is or what exactly sucks, but i know there's something wrong with it and this counter-review doesn't help =/
stupid EA.... ruined such a good game..
now i'm not gonna watch the whole 30 minutes of this cuz it's bed time, but I HATE HOW THERE'S AMMO IN THIS GAME NOW!!! W T F!!!! "heat clips keep your weapon from overheating," so that means i can shoot once in a while without a heat clip? herp, no.
1androo2 5 hours ago
These arguments against smuTboys' are totally right. Smutboy just nitpicks supposed "flaws" that aren't actually flaws but are instead aspects of the game/story that he simply doesn't like.
drone124 1 month ago
@Terralventhe "...manipulate *METALS* ...
drone124 1 month ago
@Terralventhe But that could bring to question if Magneto could only manipulate and that is all. Or that he has a jurisdiction over the magnetism in metals. This would mean there are some metals he can't control. But in regards to Earth, you could think of the planet as one huge magnet.
drone124 1 month ago
@jonandrenee1 No. I think that would be terrible. Killing him, yes. But to get Jim to join their cause? That's crazy.
drone124 1 month ago
Smudboy blocked me for arguing with him in the comments.
>.>
quakertroy 2 months ago
I take back the huggles. The only huggles go to Squee, for having to put up with that arrogant, lonely, delusional hypocrite who considers his opinion 'fact'.
Dantos4 2 months ago
Gotta say I pretty much entirely agree with.. smudboy. And yes I like Mass Effect 2 a lot(8 playthroughs). Also, I don't think that smudboy is a hater of ME.
sorwis 2 months ago
Hmm, this Smudboy sounds like the type of guy who would want to see the engine designs on Star Trek because "Warp" is technical jargon and isn't believable.
Too much angry in these comments. Not enough huggles. HUGGLES. <3
Dantos4 2 months ago
I agree with you Squee913. oh and for the haters this story does have an established lore that it follows. think about it. one could also argue that the collectors killed shepard and tried to get the body so that they could do the EXACT SAME THING, bring him or her back with their tech in him to activate later like the did with saren. think about it.
jonandrenee1 2 months ago
I wish I could find a clip from one of Linkara's reviews where he breaks down that 'just because it is science fiction, doesn't mean you can pull random crap out of your ass'. As I recall it, he was referring to the aspect of a comic wherein Magneto supposedly shifted the earth's polarities - something which he shouldn't be able to do because that's not his mutant power. Similarly, Smudboy has a point in that if you establish something, then you can just add random new facets to it conveniently.
Terralventhe 2 months ago
@Terralventhe And I could argue that the idea that once you establish a world you cannot introduce new concepts is silly. Almost every story has aspects about the world and it's tech that is revealed later in the story. What you are saying is that Star Trek should not have added Shape Shifters simply because they were never in the Next Generation.
squee913 2 months ago 3
@squee913 I wasn't aware I said 'new concepts can't be added'. I'm pretty sure I said you can't dick around with pre-established concepts. Or is it perfectly reasonable for me to thus state 'fire burns you' in my work of fiction, and then turn around and say 'no wait, fire doesn't burn you, fire freezes you. Just 'cause.'
Terralventhe 2 months ago
Awh Smudboy wishes he was RedLetterMedia. You did a fair impression of what they did...Just minus the funny. And your voice just sounds....its hard to describe, its like you never experienced joy in your life.
ciaranx02 2 months ago
@ciaranx02 wait... was this to me or Smudsy? I may be many things, but joyless is not one of them :)
squee913 2 months ago 2
@squee913 - have you seen Red Letter Media's Star Wars Reviews?
1androo2 5 hours ago
@ciaranx02
>Smudboy wishes he was RedLetterMedia
No.
BloodHuman3 1 month ago
@BloodHuman3 - no? Red Letter Media was the first thing that came to my mind when i saw that there were 6 parts
1androo2 5 hours ago
@ciaranx02 LOL... RLM was the first thing that came to my mind as soon as i saw that there were 6 parts... the guy needs a pizza roll.....
1androo2 5 hours ago
(continuation) It is reasonable to ask scientific rigor to this series.
3) (Take this one with a grain of salt) When something looks fishy in a story and is left unexplained, there is a problem. It's not the job of the audience to try to fill the gap with an exotic explanation. I'm talking about things like the destiny of Shepard's corpse and the murder of Wilson (I don't like the explanation of Smud on this one though). They feel wrong and should have had an explicit explanation.
MichaelPalin1 4 months ago
Some ideas:
1) RPGs don't work as you said. Yes, the player has to imagine the evolution of their character, but the game has to show a good approximation of what you are imagining or it's not a good game. A flat protagonist doesn't cut it just because it's role-playing.
2) Sci-fi has to be scientifically plausible or is not sci-fi. I understand this sentence may be not a consensus, but Mass Effect has a rigurous scientific background (check the in-game encyclopedia). (continued...)
MichaelPalin1 4 months ago
@MichaelPalin1 so... starwars is not sci fi? Fire Fly is not sci fi? Dune is not sci fi? matrix is not sci fi? that;s just silly. Mass effect works because a mystical element changes the mass of things.... how is this any more believable than the Lazarus project?
3) problem, what you think was fishy, I felt the game explained as much as was need.
squee913 4 months ago
@squee913 The definition of sci-fi may not be a consensus, but I think your definition is definitely not the most accepted one. Why is StarWars sci-fi? Because it's in space? Star Wars deals with mystic powers with zero scientific base (I only know the movies, don't ask for the rest). Mass Effect deals with an existing scientific phenomenon (check dark energy in the wikipedia) and tries to give a scientific explanation to it. Don't call it "mystical" just because you don't understand it.
MichaelPalin1 4 months ago
@MichaelPalin1 You are saying Star wars is not considered Sci Fi and you think MY definition is not commonly accepted? Also, i believe you are the one that does not understand what we know about dark energy since nothing about it ever suggests it can change the mass of an object. As far as we know in the story, nothing has even linked dark energy to the mass effect phenomenon yet.
squee913 4 months ago
@squee913 You have not explained WHY Star Wars is sci fi (again, I talk about the movies). Yes, there are robots and spaceship, do anybody in the movie explain how they work in a scientific way? No, there is NO scientific explanations in Star Wars. Really, check the definition of sci fi somewhere, you'll be surprised.
Eezo is what creates dark energy, dark energy exists in real life and makes the universe expand, changing the mass of an object is a PLAUSIBLE explanation. Eezo is sci fi material.
MichaelPalin1 4 months ago
@MichaelPalin1 Plausible? show me one scientific paper that suggests dark energy changes the mass of anything. Then you might have an argument. The ability to change mass is impossible by our knowledge of science. Mass effects bases everything off this impossibility. so by that definition it was never sci-fi in the first place.
squee913 4 months ago
@squee913 Ok, maybe it is not very plausible, but don't pretend you why or you know what to do with a physics paper. And you seem to bend the definition of sci fi with every new post, I don't know anymore whether you consider ME sci fi. Who said sci fi have to have scientific publication accuracy? You can make up your own theories, you only need it to be based on existing science and make its repercussions coherent. Period. Mass Effect does it with many of its elements, so it's sci fi.
MichaelPalin1 4 months ago
Ah, "Smudboy"...Squee913 has dismissed that claim
ItamarO93 4 months ago
@ItamarO93 have you seen his most recent videos? they dismiss him for me...
squee913 4 months ago
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ItamarO93 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@squee913
Seen them now. I've LOLed.
ItamarO93 4 months ago
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ItamarO93 4 months ago
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ItamarO93 4 months ago
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ItamarO93 4 months ago
details...details, i loled
iammaac1 5 months ago
I don't respect smudboy one bit to be honest. I pointed out many flaws in his logic and his reaction basically was to call me a "faggot" then block me.
He's a trollercoaster.
LeVaughnX 5 months ago in playlist LeVaughnX's Favorited Videos
One thing I can appreciate from squee913 is his humility & understanding of Sci-fi. The problem with smud is his constant reference of realism (or what's logically in his own mind) corresponding with the already established world of ME. That's the beauty of fiction... Something Smud doesn't comprehend nor appreciate.
olisaoli 5 months ago
Continued from Part 1....If a guy you think is cool turns out to actually be a jerk, you will treat them differently. You are simply acting in accordance to your unchanged personality based on new information. What Smudboy means is that Shepard is put through many situations which should be altering his character - only they don't. For Christ's sake, the guy was dead for 2 years, but you could have thought he was waking up from a nap based on the emotion he exhibits.
fedex12345678 5 months ago
@fedex12345678 The point of an RPG is that you are filling Shep's shoes. If they give him motivation for something, and it does not mach what you wanted for him, you detach yourself from the game. Treating people differently is still called character development, and slowly going from paragon to renegade or vice versa is most certainly a personality shift.
squee913 5 months ago
@squee913 What if I don't like the council, but think the renegade responses are idiotic? I suppose you yourself could become really jaded over the course of the game and sort-of change that way. I kind of get what you're saying, but I think you're kinda missing the point here. Shepard was dead for 2 years! (this is just 1 example) Like holy crap! What if this was you? Wouldn't you be doing some serious soul-searching or reflection or asking others about it or
fedex12345678 5 months ago
@squee913 or considering the philosophical implications of coming back from the dead or doing, you know, anything at all?? Like what the hell? There's nothing! If you honestly believe Shepard's death at the beginning of the game was done for anything but generating marketing hype, you need to start asking yourself how objective you are being here. I agree Shep needs to be a little bland for all players to feel like they could really be him/her, but come on! Nothing at all?
fedex12345678 5 months ago
@fedex12345678 I will be the first to admit I would have liked something like that, but since i feel the game was not about Shepard, but the people and places around him, I don't feel it broke the story.
squee913 5 months ago
@squee913 Dude, you just said it yourself: Shepard is the protagonist and the story isn't about him? That doesn't even make sense! The sub-plots about his companions were fine, but they were disconnected from the main plot; they played like side-quests. Only they constituted like 95% of the game. So what are we left with in the other 5% exactly? A giant mess that contradicts its own in-universe lore and a lot of sloppy writing. I can't understand how someone would want to defend it.
fedex12345678 5 months ago
@fedex12345678 It makes perfect sense to me. The first game was about learning who Shepard is, the second game is about learning why you care about saving the world around you. I suppose some don't agree that is a good way to go. difference of opinion I suppose :)
squee913 5 months ago
@squee913 Also, I want to make it clear I'm not just some internet hater. I really like the Mass Effect series as well as other BioWare games. The rest of Mass Effect 2 was pretty damn impressive, but we are talking specifically about the plot here, which was abysmal. I was genuinely saddened by this, especially because it was the sequel to a video game with a great story. The drop in quality between games just defies my comprehension.
fedex12345678 5 months ago
@fedex12345678 I for one would never call anyone a hater. The idea is simply insulting. People who use the term simply can't grasp that someone might have a different point of view and calling someone a hater/fanboy allows them to keep their mis-guided view that their opinion is the only right one. You are no less a person for disagreeing with me. In fact I respect people like you who can debate something with a level head far more than people like Smud who use personal insults like hater/fanboy
squee913 5 months ago
Shepard doesn't change. There is no narrative at all that has Shepard confronting his many, many issues. The player does not have to choose a way in which to deal with these issues. That is how the player could control Shepard's development. Your examples do not show his character developing - sure, you can choose to treat others differently as you learn more about them, but that is simply changing your course of action because you have gained more information. continued...
fedex12345678 5 months ago
Ahh, Hannibal Barca. Arguably, the Republic's biggest headache...........
doodahday1000 5 months ago
No wonder I've never passed a math test. I always thought one plus one equaled sixteen. lol
Jonstern1983 5 months ago
@Jonstern1983 meh, what do text books know??? :P
squee913 5 months ago
Personally, I preferred the plot and antagonists of the first game, but everything else about the second.
There were just a lot more twists and developments in the first game, and the antagonists were well developed.
The second came, was a little too straight forward, and the antagonists were completely undeveloped.
The protagonists for ME2 however were deeper, and (other than Jacob) a lot less annoying/boring (though I would have loved to have Liara and Wrex with me.)
Jonstern1983 5 months ago
@Jonstern1983 I think that was the point. They wanted you to grow to care about the world and saving the people in it more than learning more about the enemy :)
squee913 5 months ago
Good arguing. Though too much clinging to his presentation.
Also, there's still the irrational trust towards Cerberus and Miranda. The brain chip comment combined with the inability to decline from working with Cerberus totally started a long running story arc of paranoia for me, one which never had development or resolution.
fiveMIRrOrs 5 months ago
@fiveMIRrOrs I also think it would have been nice to refuse Cerb, but they have to tell a story, so I don't hold it against them. Besides, who else would fund you? I concentrated a lot on his presentation because it is so important in debate. If you look at the BSN forums you will see tons of people say they could not stand the way he presents things and just stopped watching. If you want to convince people you are right, how you present it is just as important as what you present.
squee913 5 months ago
@squee913 I'm okay with that they force you to work for cerberus because of the limited resources, but the point is that they could've somehow allowed you to check that there actually isn't some indoctrination chip in your brain that would allow tIM to go "would you kindly" on your ass at a critical moment. Make it Shepard's own loyalty quest or something. It would've been a great addition to the story.
fiveMIRrOrs 5 months ago
@fiveMIRrOrs True... I just got an image of pulling a bug out of the nose ala total recall :P
squee913 5 months ago
You do know Cerberus was already big enough to challenge the Alliance and the Council right? LOL.. Have you seen some of the Mass Effect 3 footage..? They're badass
mamobster1500 5 months ago
@mamobster1500 first of all, we know nothing of those forces in ME3. We don't know how or when he got them, how big they are, and what their true purpose is. So, we cannot say Cerberus was big enough to challenge anyone. Those forces might have been put together after ME2 for all we know. Besides, all we know is Cerberus is going after Shepard. TIM could only have a force of 500 for all we know and while it is enough to hunt Shep, it would not be strong enough to challenge an army.
squee913 5 months ago
@squee913 Well in the codex it states Cerberus indeed a threat to the council and its human representives. Also, not sure if you read the comics or not but cerberus is full of soldiers most of which used to be apart of the alliance... including their top assassin Kai Leng who is one of many foes to come after shephard in Mass Effect 3. Cerberus is also backed by a handful of cooporations. I say that is huge enough to do some damage. If they arent big enough they are strong enough
mamobster1500 5 months ago
@squee913 Also if you go to Bioware website and look at Cerberus it states that and I quote.. " How the Illusive Man recruited and trained such a large number of top-line battlefield commanders is a worrying mystery. Cerberus, once comprised of small, covert cells of agents, is now a burgeoning and unconcealed threat to the galaxy." So this and then some proves that Cerberus is in fact LARGE enough to threaten the galaxy.. Not even including the fact that they are with the reapers.
mamobster1500 5 months ago
@mamobster1500 It proves that they are NOW. It says nothing about their abilities in ME2. In fact what you said helps prove the point. The fact that they went from small, covert cells of agents in ME2 to a burgeoning and unconcealed threat to the galaxy in ME3 is a mystery.
squee913 5 months ago
@squee913 Ehh, regardless they were always a threat
mamobster1500 5 months ago
@squee913 You like Mass Effect 1 or 2 better?
mamobster1500 5 months ago
@mamobster1500 Hard to say. I think 2 because I cared about the team a lot more and that made things more untactful for me :)
squee913 5 months ago
@simfamSP sadly no. My logic is in a long term relationship with Science. Don't mess with Science's B**ch my friend :P
squee913 5 months ago
All in all, smudboy's an ass. On his response videos, he outright insults you, not once did I hear YOU yourself insult him. Typical of a self righteous man who's been questioned! Anf also, I'm pretty sure Mass Effect goes over the genre of Fantasy/Science Fiction, too, considering changing Mass is quite impossible with our current technology.
XeroBones 6 months ago
Mass Effect 2 was damn good in my mind. I know a lot of people aren't open minded but I really enjoyed the game; it was very well written but it had some obvious game-breaking flaws (Squad A.I. was fucking aweful but the Enemy A.I. nearly fucked me in the ass all the time!)
I also didn't like Jacob; he was a pretty big flaw...same with Miri...and the fact I couldn't just tell T.I.M. to piss off whenever I wanted without getting "Renegade Points".....Yeah...
9.5/10!
LeVaughnX 6 months ago
ME2 has a pretty good story, but it's no Baldur's Gate 2 (which had a great story) or Planescape: Torment (which put more emphasis on story than the actual gameplay), but it's still good considering that it's a quite new game (which usually have god awful stories). Just my opinion.
Lurtzman1 6 months ago
Been watching both Smudboy and your videos and both of you do say stuff that do matter and sounds relevant enough. ME2 got a story that people can debate about and it wasn't the best one but if you think hard enough the stuff actually do make sense
TheRobbza 6 months ago
You had the rabbit growing out of Shep's right ear, not his left like yu said. lol.
I felt the game was the "middle child" of the trilogy, which it is, that leaves more questions than it answers. And why is this a trilogy? Because they didn't want to make a single 150 hr game.
SGPlayer0008 6 months ago
How could you think this? Did we play the same game? ME2 story SUCKS.
Soronarr 6 months ago
@Soronarr that's odd... I have an entire video that explains how I think this.... Did you miss it somehow?
squee913 6 months ago
@squee913 No..I just think it makes about as much sense as a sea manity attempting to skee.....See what i did there?
Soronarr 6 months ago
@Soronarr I see that you apparently have to barrow jokes to sound funny. Still, can't fault you for your opinion.
squee913 6 months ago
@Soronarr
ME2 was awesome in my opinion.
shinobi603 6 months ago
@shinobi603 As a game? It was good. But that doesn't mean that everything about it was good. I like someting DOES NOT equal that everything about it is brilliant.
Soronarr 6 months ago
i agree with you completely!
MiSsToX1c 6 months ago
The fact that people can't tell the difference between Reality and Fiction is quite frankly SAD. It's Science Fiction, it's not supposed to make sense. Because if it did, it'd be REALITY. Once again Smud, you're theories are INVALID!
XeroBones 6 months ago 7
@XeroBones Actually, the more originating appeal of science fiction is that it could be conceived of actually happening, due to science.
The genre you're thinking of would be fantasy, which doesn't make sense if applied to the real world. Star Wars for example is a cross fantasy/sci-fi/action-adventure/romance/drama, otherwise known as a 'space opera'. Blade Runner is a noir science fiction, etc.
SwobyJ 6 months ago
@SwobyJ So is Mass Effect. Unless there is an element that changes mass and gives people magic that I don't know about.
squee913 6 months ago
@squee913 The hypothetical always exists in sci-fi.
There is a difference between finding a powerful element that is researched for years, and discovering a 'grand amulet of power' that insta-demigods you for no discenable reason.
Sci-fi and fantasy have many overlaps, but a big difference is that sci-fi is conceptually believable (even if far into the future), while fantasy is meant to base upon unrealism and exploration of the more abstract part of imagination.
SwobyJ 5 months ago
@SwobyJ Are you suggesting that there was a grand amulet of power in ME? Even the Lazurus project was researched for years, thus it should fit in your description of what is acceptable.
squee913 5 months ago
@XeroBones Science Fiction can be of different "Hardness", as in, different degrees of approximation to reality. I read an article were it's demostrated like this:
How does the the time machine work?
Scale 1: It just does. Go with it, OK?
Scale 2: Applied Phlebotinum
Scale 3: Let me tell you about the newest hypothesis in the fields relevant to it
Scale 4: It doesn't. Time travel is impossible.
smudboy's problem is that he things ME is close to 3, whereas it's closer to 2.
masterplusmargarita 5 months ago
@XeroBones have you played the first Deus Ex (2000), System Shock 2, SWKoTOR? those all the examples of science fiction games that make sense. And Mass Effect games took many elements from those games.
capturethelife 5 months ago
@XeroBones Uhm, science fiction is most definately supposed to make sense. A science fiction universe has always got an established lore that it is supposed to follow. Usually science fiction writers try to make their universe as sensible as possible, explaning the technologies etc.
Mass Effect did this fairly well. But then in comes Mass Effect 2 retconing half the established lore...
Btw, mass effect is not science fiction, it's scifi.
SternMann93 2 months ago
I hate how Smudboy's videos are presented. They resemble the 9/11 Documentary In Plane Site. Ok. We're discussing an RPG Video Game, not a Conspiracy Theory! Present yourself differently. Even if he is Egotistic (which seems obvious, given the "I'm the best" attitude from his videos). You're not Sean Connery, so stop. And next time, take a few days ACTUALLY doing research, not completing the game, and then immediatly ranting afterwards Smud. Good Job Squee! (:
XeroBones 6 months ago
Smudboy is so arrogant. No one is an expert on Science Fiction. Especially not him. Does he not understand, that in an RPG, YOU'RE the character?! And they brought Shpeard back, because he can lead the Galaxy! He brings HOPE! They're would be no Civil Rights act without Martin Luther King, Jr, there'd still be slavery without Lincoln. One man ALWAYS makes a difference.
XeroBones 6 months ago
Also, regardless of being resurrected, the events on Akuze would've seriously pissed shepard off at Cerberus. In fact, the resurrection would make it seem like they just wanted to throw him into more experiments.
S1deshowRobP5 7 months ago
@S1deshowRobP5 only if your shep was a lone survivor. And it might affect your Shepard but not mine. You are making arguments for Shepard's thoughts which are up to the individual player. Either way, Cerberus is the only one willing to help Shep. He/she has not options.
squee913 7 months ago
Wouldn't it make more sense if shepard were in a coma for two years with extensive injuries and being believed dead as opposed to actually dying? It's a sloppy plot point.
S1deshowRobP5 7 months ago
@S1deshowRobP5 Not if bioware is trying make a point about shepard being brought back to life. It has been suggested that Reaper tech was used and that this might play a part in ME3. You would not need reaper tech to awaken from a comma. Otherwise, yes you are right, it would be simpler to do as you say. That is why I feel there is something more to it. We wil just have to wait and see.
squee913 7 months ago
Good video. I hated smudboy's shit videos.Even when I pointed out his fallacy's he just got hyper defensive like a bitch in heat.
Weirdman920 7 months ago
Sorry squee, but it seems you have no idea as to what makes a good plot. Its pretty obvious that you're just a Mass Effect 2 fanboy. Almost every point that Smud make has some factual, and logical basis behind it. Nearly all of your points are just completely baseless and are just random assumptions.
STRING3R 8 months ago
@STRING3R the fact that you speak in nothing but absolutes makes it hard to take you seriously. I have no idea what makes a good plot, when a "good" plot is completely subjective. Nearly all of my points are completely baseless? Care to name them? Even one of them?
squee913 8 months ago
@squee913 Did you even play the first Mass Effect? Now that was a good plot. The antagonist had clear motives, the overarching plot of the reapers/protheans was well developed and Shepard (as well as his crew) were actually integral to the plot due to him being the only person apart from Saren to have the prothean visions.
Fast forward to Mass Effect 2, the writing felt extremely sloppy. Shepard is almost completely pointless to the main plot, and his "resurrection" is handled extremely poorly.
STRING3R 8 months ago
@STRING3R Shepard is the only one with the skill to pull off everything that happened. Just because he didn't have some plot device unique to him does not make him pointless. Frodo didn't have one. He was like every other hobbit except his will was stronger. I felt the resurrection was handled fine. It was the people and events around Shep that were the focus, not him getting over his resurrection ordeal. And nothing you said proves any of my points were baseless.
squee913 8 months ago
Awful rebuttal.
heiamll 8 months ago
@heiamll because.......?
squee913 8 months ago
@squee913 Because its awful. "Your first point is ME2 can do whatever it wants because its fiction." i should have stopped watching right then.
heiamll 7 months ago
@heiamll then you missed the point completely. I did not say that doing what ever they want makes a good story, I was pointing out the flaw in the way Smud present his arguments. He talks as if it is law. "You don't do that." Well, they just did. whether it is good or bad, it still proves your statement wrong. My point was that he acted like a critical rule had been broken when there aren't any in the first place. It was an argument against his presentation, not for the plot.
squee913 7 months ago
@squee913 A critical rule in fiction is to maintain plausibility. Suspension of disbelief only goes so far. Of course, writers dont have to do this. To call such a move good writing is ridiculous. If it were good (or failing that inconsequential to the audience) ME2 wouldnt be under fire like how it is.
heiamll 7 months ago
@heiamll really? because LOTR does exactly the same thing in the second book with the death and res of Gandolf. It has almost no reason as to how, yet most of the world consider it to be a good story. And before any says it's fantasy over sci-fi, mass effect has tons of elements of fantasy that are not fully explained. You can't accept those and cry foul over one thing.
squee913 7 months ago
What you're saying about Hannibal Barca and Jeane (Sp?) D'Arc is slightly different from the case of Shepard: Whilst those two were generals (Or at least leaders) with great amounts of power, Shepard is still not the top dog in the Alliance military or even Cerberus. Sure, Jeane D'Arc was a peasant, but she worked her way up. Shepard seems to be content at Commander, and doesn't seem to aspire to be a great leader, only aspiring to do his (Admitedly very big) part. The real power is the Council.
masterplusmargarita 8 months ago
@masterplusmargarita Not in TIM's eyes. He believes, or at least says he believes that Shepard is a symbol like the historical figures I used. The thing to remember is that it is not whether or not Shepard was a symbol. It's not whether you or I would think it was worth it. It's all about if TIM felt that way and if HE would have felt it was worth it. The examples were only to show that one person can make a big difference and add weight to the idea TIM would feel this way.
squee913 8 months ago
5:09 to skip the mindless dribble, and get to the actual point.
jaknife99 8 months ago
@jaknife99 yeah... sorry about that, I do tend to ramble :)
squee913 8 months ago
@squee913 I understand your point, this guy does come off as a douche. But he is right, though I think him being right all the time has led to him being smug. He should call himself smugboy.
But I wish you would get to things.
jaknife99 8 months ago
@FlashlegendSC ME's writers have stated (GI.com) that the Human Reaper was the core of the unfinished Reaper, who's outward appearance will be similar to other Reapers. Who's to say they weren't building Sovereign's replacement, or that all Reapers aren't born this way? Remember this is a trilogy, answers will come.
bebomac5 8 months ago
So after watching smudboy's response...I have a migraine. He pulled some Fox News editing on your clips and pulled them out of context. Very frustrating. He's undoubtedly smart, but he's one narrow, bitter nerd.
kyleDIESEL 8 months ago
@kyleDIESEL it's to be expected, and while I tried to show his arguments as he presented them, I'm sure the same could be said of me (the editing I mean). That is why I encourage everyone to watch both and make up their own mind :)
squee913 8 months ago
@squee913
And risk heavy headache?
Even if someone hates ME2 plot, you seriously can't support smudboy's analysis nor response.
Plus his "Fixing ME2" is total joke. I mean random food poisoning? Really?
CroGamer002 8 months ago
a work of fiction with gasp....fiction in it! anyway good video valid points blah blah i smell redlettermedia rip off all over this but it's probably just me I can just see this guy thinking wouldn't it be great if mr.plinket reviewed mass effect.
xBinskix 8 months ago
ME2's plot and story are discussed and debated more vigorously than any game I've seen. The rhetoric is on the level with many classic books, shows, and movies. Hmm.
bebomac5 9 months ago
Man, I don't want to insult smudboy, but his voice is almost unbearable to me.
ElvisMasur 9 months ago
Oh dear lord, I was wrong all this time! *shocked face*
No really, you do make a fine and convincing argument. I will now proceed to watch the rest of the parts, cause I kinda enjoy listening to people that see things my way. :)
xHeLLGuarDx 10 months ago
@squee913 Great Vid! After 70+ perfect reviews, millions in sales, 110+ goty awards, universal acclaim, and acknowledgement as one of the great games of this gen, Smudboy's criticisms kind of "ring hollow". Redletter media at least had some concensus on his side, with the Star Wars prequels, which is far from the case here.
bebomac5 10 months ago
@bebomac5 I don't believe those awards and sales say much. This entire thing is about how the mass effect 2 plot is severely lacking. Does a mediocre plot in a game with great gameplay, characters and graphics ruin it? For those who aren't intelligence enough to notice, hell no. For those who are? Not necessarily. As the game progressed I knew the overall plot was pretty terrible but I still loved mass effect 2. What i'm trying to say is just because a game does well doesn't mean its perfect.
FlashlegendSC 9 months ago
@FlashlegendSC I would be the first o agree that it is not perfect. However I take issue with you "those not intelligent enough" remark. So, if I think it was a good plot, it is only because I am too stupid to see it's not? Can't I be just as intelligent but have a different point of view?
squee913 9 months ago
@squee913 Aww, yes, I admit that remark was a little childish. And honestly I'm not really referring to you. It's just all these fanboys and their comments that dismiss logical analysis because there to dumb to see past their mass effect loving egos. It can really be annoying. Yes, In smudboys videos, he nitpicks here and there but that doesn't mean that all of what he's saying has no validity. But yes, I do appologize for such an untasteful remark.
FlashlegendSC 9 months ago
@FlashlegendSC Honestly, I'm a little envious of fan boys. Think about it, they are able to turn a blind eye to any short comings and feel they have a perfect game. I would love to be able to do that. I agree that smud has valid points. even admit them in my vids. I should also point out, that I am not condemning anyone for their views (ok, maybe a few of the sillier points), but simply offering new perspective on things that might help people understand the plot better.
squee913 9 months ago
@FlashlegendSC
So ME2 plot is mediocre?
In other words not bad?
CroGamer002 8 months ago
@CroGamer002 I definitely can't say its bad. Its not like I'm a video game expert but I'm sure there are plenty of games that have plots that are absolutely horrendous. So yes, mediocre but still coming from bioware, which is regarded as a game maker which focuses heavily on story telling, its disappointing. Still, doesn't mean I hate the game . Beaten it 5 times and I've already pre-ordered the ME3 collector's edition.
FlashlegendSC 8 months ago
@FlashlegendSC honestly, I would never argue against that. It's stinks that you didn't like it and I hope ME3 makes up for it in your eyes. The point of the video was never to convince people that it was fantastic (even though I think it was great) but that it made sense for the most part. I wanted to show that it was not some massive pile of unbelievable plot points as Smud claims they are, but are a that the motives and events in the game make sense.
squee913 8 months ago
@squee913 There is a great deal that doesn't make sense though. Even if you keep it basic, the collector's plan was to build a human reaper to do? Not to mention just finishing it would have taken a considerably long time(years most likely). And from news coverage at E3 we know that the reapers will be reaching earth 6-12 months after the end of ME2 so the collector plan was pointless. I really didn't care too much about the railroading but this was very perturbing.
FlashlegendSC 8 months ago
@bebomac5 Example: This game and its plot.
FlashlegendSC 9 months ago
People may have a hard time watching Smudboy's vids from start to finish, I'm having a hard time watching your vids. So I stopped after 8 minutes, and everything else that I know of your arguments I know of Smudboy's rebuttal.
And you're saying you're gonna argue against the arguments, not against the person. Then why are you criticizing his use of words (MacGuffin) later?
If you feel ME2's story/plot is so brilliant go argue that, not someone else's analysis.
LordMida 10 months ago
@LordMida Arguing against someone's methods of making an argument is not speaking bad about the person themselves. If someone said they disagreed with the way you wrote a paper, does that mean they are personally insulting you? Besides that, at least I watched his videos before arguing against them. Your condemning me for an argument you haven't even seen. Not to mention that critiquing my vid and then telling me not to critique someone else's vid is a little pointless.
squee913 10 months ago
This was excellent.
Arcian 10 months ago 6
squee913quote: "I'm sure he's not that [pompous and arrogant]"
@squee913
Hahah, talk with him on the ME forums, he is...but he's also pretty smart and quite good at arguing his points. But he is right...some of the time.
No offense but your retorts are coming off as someone un-willing to face the truth, like when people try and defend the star wars prequels.
Funnily enough a quote of your own, brings down most of your arguments.
Sure they could do it, but SHOULD they do it.
wulf3nXII 10 months ago
Comment removed
wulf3nXII 10 months ago
The upshot of this video seems to be "but I liked it anyway". It comes across as a die-hard fan defending his favorite game just because. That's fine, I enjoyed it too, but Smudboy's questions are valid. But few of them were addressed other than to say "well maybe this, or maybe that". Providing additional hypotheses is missing the point. The fact is, the game doesn't answer those questions, and in many cases it really should have. We shouldn't have to provide our own "maybe" answers.
CathexisAurore 10 months ago
@CathexisAurore Actually, there were very few "maybe" answers. The fall to the planet, which to be honest is a maybe on both sides, since we never see what happened and people just assume that he fell/burned up/ went splat. The other one was Tim's reasons for resurrecting Shep. The game gave you the reason. TIM felt Shep's status and abilities justified it. The only maybe I gave were to his other motives. It is obvious that TIM had other reasons, and I just suggested a few.
squee913 10 months ago
@squee913 But TIM's reason just doesn't seem believable. Because Shepard is a "social icon" or a symbol, you're gonna bring back a man who has possibly caused your organization more problems since its inception AND you're gonna spend 2 years and a sum of money you could hire an entire army with? Really? The social icon thing doesn't even come into play in this game and just seems completely contrived and lazy. His death and immediate resurrection just seem stupid and contrived.
FlashlegendSC 9 months ago
@FlashlegendSC First of all, 4 billion credits would hardly raise an army and sustain it for any length of time. Second, TIM is betting on the fact that Shepard will care far more about stopping the reapers than hurting Cerberus. It's a risk, but not an unbelievable one. The fact that social icon does not come into play is moot since TIM had no way of knowing that would happen. It's not if you feel it was a good move to make, but if it was a believable move for someone like TIM .
squee913 9 months ago
@squee913 1. How exactly do you know that? I don't have the greatest grasp on the economics of the Mass Effect world(Nobody does) but that seems like a hefty sum of money and if Shepard says it(which he did) how can you tell me its not true? It was enough to keep a substantially sized research facility going for two years. As for the social icon point being moot; what exactly did TIM, miranda and the rest of cerberus expect Shepard joining them would do? Would a social icon joining a terrorist
FlashlegendSC 9 months ago
@squee913 group, infamous for their heinous experiments, really garner any type of support with any one that actually mattered? Even if we ignore this reasoning and just look at the events of the game. TIM doesn't even attempt to take that angle with shepard. Where does he try to use shepard's signifigance as a social icon/symbol to aid there efforts? It just doesn't make sense and Bioware gets away with it because everything else about the game is amazing. However, some of us like good writing.
FlashlegendSC 9 months ago
Today is a very sad day.
That's why I'm watching this again to get cheered up.
CroGamer002 10 months ago
the fact is story telling has no official guide lines, its an art done by humanity for god knows how long, there are many ways to tell a story and many different types of stories, no one person can decree that a story is good or bad, can they have an opinion sure but there is no factual basis on which you can grade a story
XsteelrogueX 10 months ago
"fantastically written game" hahahaha
The game's story was a total disappointment, the terminator boss was the last straw! Bioware need's to bring back the lead writer for Knights of the Old Republic
LOLMAN22 10 months ago
@LOLMAN22 All hail the Karpyshyn!
moonhitler 10 months ago
Lol, nice. Smudboy's analyses are focusing more on trying to be witty than focus on accurate criticisms. Got really tiring after a while.
shinobi603 10 months ago
So Squee if you went into the Mass effect universe what class would you be
LegendofLuigi703 10 months ago
He was reasonable in his videos but you are just being butthurt and angry. You say that his arguments are really bad but all you say that "he's wasting time" and meaningless bs like this. I love ME and ME2 but I'm going to have to agree with SmudBoy too. His style and the choice of music is hilarious but sadly he is right.
TokenBassist 10 months ago
@TokenBassist You are more then welcome to feel that way, and thanks for watching... but when did I ever say he was wasting his time?
squee913 10 months ago
Comment removed
KnightTemplar108 11 months ago
I'm going to have to agree with SmudBoy... I love ME series and ME2, but the resurrection part (one of a few), really left me with a raised eyebrow saying "WTF?"
KiD1515 11 months ago
I agree that they should have killed Shepard, but if they'd planned it with ME1, killed Shepard at the end, left it on a cliff hanger, then resurrected him at the beginning of ME2. It seemed kind of odd that he died then got resurrected immediately...
Okay427 11 months ago
you got stomped by Smudboy.
MadGodful 11 months ago
@MadGodful while that is your opinion, and you are welcome to it, it is one that few seem to share
squee913 11 months ago 12
@squee913 Whatever man, Smudboy's a smart guy and as much as I love Mass Effect, I'm going to have to side with him.
MadGodful 11 months ago
@MadGodful The fact that you at least watch both sides of an argument says a lot about your character and I respect that, as well as your choice. :)
squee913 11 months ago 10
@squee913 When everyone thinks the same, no one is thinking.
YaiBugy 9 months ago
The thing that always bugged me the most about smudboy was that he seriously needed to have a glass of water handy.
And yes, great response video, squee.
PzVIE43 11 months ago
I have that Star Wars game they showed at the end xD
Freemon34 11 months ago
This video is a perfect blend of humor and logic many if not all of your counter-points are very well founded; though ME2 had flaws(but what game doesn't) it still is a great game with an epic story. Also an army of Zaeeds would have been fucking hilarious and awesome because you know he is the most interesting man in Mass Effect
MasterofEternalNight 11 months ago
@MasterofEternalNight can you imagine a room full of Zaeeds saying gaodamn? :P
squee913 11 months ago
@squee913 Yes but can you imagine the army of Zaeeds charging the Reapers on llamas... While wearing top hats and monocles!?
MasterofEternalNight 11 months ago
@MasterofEternalNight
That is the most AWESOME think I ever heard.
CroGamer002 10 months ago
hey squee, you left out Scipio, who not only defeated Hannibal but LITERALLY wiped carthage off the face of the earth. he's the reason there is no carthage today
TwistedComplex 11 months ago
@TwistedComplex Oh, I didn't forget, but less people know about him. besides that, Scipio Africanas... I want a name like that :( was so good becasue he studied Hannibal's tactics and used them to fight against him. So in a sense, Hannibal is responsible for Scipio.
squee913 11 months ago
awesome man, just awesome! regarding Wilson: as we learn later on, the Collectors went to colonies that had members of Shepard's team stationed there (Horizon for example). Later on they even set a trap for Shepard. They want Shepard! They wanted Shepard before, see comic! Now it hasn't been much of a secret that the remains had been given to Cerberus by Liara. And we know, the Collectors pay enormous sums for whatever they want. Wilson could have been paid by them, changed sides so to speak.
Coombsi 11 months ago
So of course he would make sure that Shepard got ressurrected and then Wilson waited for a somewhat right moment to let whoever (probably mercs working for the Collectors) attack the station and get Shepard so the Collectors would finally get their hands on him/her. makes kinda sense, doesn't it?
Coombsi 11 months ago
@Coombsi Agreed with a slight amendment. We now know that Wilson was working with the Shadow Broker. I think the broker was still trying to make good on his deal to give Shep to the collectors :)
squee913 11 months ago
You should try for YouTube stand-up comedy. Just keep doing videos like these only with the intent to be funny. You're pretty good. And I agree fullheartedly with most of it. In fact, I've used some of the same arguments that you brought up when talking to him.
Vortex289 11 months ago