A Scientific Debate on Race and Intelligence - Part 2 of 11

[TheBigLeeg]

this doesn't account for the most recent genetic fact that all non subsaharan modern humans contain DNA from neanderthal. More specifically the genes associated with cognition. Thus proving the scientific model is changing drastically. Does this speak to the IQ and achievement gap of formentioned groups?

[EgalitarianJay]

@TheBigLeeg Oh? And which genes are those? Why do you think Neanderthal went extinct? They were not as intelligent as modern Homo Sapiens so they were out bred due to not being able to compete. There may have been some minute cross-breeding but there's no reason to assume this made non-Africans smarter.

[TheBigLeeg]

@EgalitarianJay 1st the fact that a huge population of modern human contain Neanderthal DNA disputes the extinction argument. rather they continue on in humans today.Simple answer, they were bred into what is todays non subsaharans.U can do your own research I assume.Start with YT.While on the subject of assuming.If u read my comment in earnest u will see I asked a question regarding IQ ect. Never did I make an assumption.I will wait for the facts provided politics doesn't dictate science fact

[EgalitarianJay]

@TheBigLeeg I've already done the research. The latest scientific findings indicate that there are traces of Neanderthal DNA in some modern human populations but the percentage is very small. This means that Homo Sapiens could mate and produce fertile offspring with Neanderthal but Neanderthal populations went extinct. Their only descendants live in us. And they are absent in Africans because Neanderthal arose in Eurasia and didn't migrate back to Africa.

[EgalitarianJay]

@TheBigLeeg Now what does any of that have to do with Race and Intelligence? You stated that non Sub-Saharan Africans inherited cognitive genes from Neanderthal as if Neanderthal admixture made non-Africans smarter than Africans. What do you base that on? Neanderthal were wiped out by Homo Sapiens who by the way were still tropically adapted like their African forebears. There was some interbreeding but Neanderthal largely died out. That's what the science shows.

[TheBigLeeg]

@EgalitarianJay well if you consider 1-4% Nthl DNA small then we will always be at an empass. Consider this, humans and chimps are said to be 98-99% the same dna than even 1% is a HUGE difference. As well, you keep stating theory as if it were proven law.Plus your statements are oxymoronic. One can't be extinct and yet live on. Just deal in facts or CURRENT THEORY instead of trying so hard to be pc when you want to have discourse on a science related upload. Please do some updated research.thanx

[EgalitarianJay]

@TheBigLeeg 1-4% is a tiny amount. We're talking about admixture here not similarity in DNA. 4% Neanderthal equates to 4 per 100 ancestors being of Neanderthal descent. It's a very small fraction of your overall DNA and there is no reason to assume this had any impact on intelligence. Neanderthal are extinct as there are no pure Neanderthal living. What you're saying is like claiming a Native American tribe that was wiped out lives on because some Whites have 4% of their DNA.

[EgalitarianJay]

@TheBigLeeg You accuse me of being politically correct but I'm talking science and common sense here. The Neanderthal were wiped out and only a few of their genes survive in modern humans because some of them intermarried. This whole race and intelligence mess was started by racists with an ideological agenda. It's like a religion. A rather pathetic religion at that. Why do you feel the need to believe you are better than other people because you were born looking a certain way?

[TheBigLeeg]

@EgalitarianJay And again. REREAD my initial comment. I ask a question that hasn't yet been answered. However, you keep trying to pigeonhole me into a statement that I HAVE NOT MADE! I will patiently await to see what the scientific rigors conclude. Unlike U who is one huge assumption. Advances in understanding genetic purpose/programming will speak for me. Not u nor will I make ignorant comments.

[EgalitarianJay]

@TheBigLeeg You've already made an ignorant comment by saying that 1-4% Neanderthal ancestry in non-Africans had a genetic impact on their intelligence and that this finding is relevant to this debate. It's not. Neanderthal did not have some kind of superior IQ genes that made non-Africans smarter and 1-4% admixture is tiny not significant. I uploaded these videos to educate people. You need to do more research and think more critically.

[TheBigLeeg]

@EgalitarianJay YOU ARE SERIOUSLY DENSE! 1st I have never made the statement you continue to infer. QUOTE ME ANYWHERE MAKING SAID STATEMENTS! As far as 1-4% being insignificant. I challenge you to say that on a genetics forum. FOR THE LAST TIME, QUIT PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH! It seems you are more intrested in spewing your opinions just to hear yourself. Rather, than doing the research and having an intelligent discussion on what impact this new finding might reveal, if anything.

[EgalitarianJay]

@TheBigLeeg Your comments are right here for everyone to see. I don't need to lie to people who can clearly read for themselves what you said. You initially claimed this video doesn't address the new scientific findings that non-Africans have some Neanderthal DNA. You claim this is relevant to intelligence. What is your source? Let's start with that. Name your source for the argument you are making.

[cabadejo]

@EgalitarianJay To be fair EJ the change in one nucleotide base pair can have a monumental impact on an organism. I see there is a 98% similarity between the chimpanzee and human genome. Thus a 1-4% admix of Neanderthal has the potential to make very big differences. We cannot be certain about Neanderthal IQ genes or the potential impact of adding them to the human genome. The interaction of a new gene set can have unforeseen implications.

[EgalitarianJay]

@cabadejo Homo Sapiens and Neanderthal are members of the genus Homo thus there is even more similarity between a Neanderthal and a Human as between human and Chimp. Cross breeding between the species would have to be done at a very high level to have major evolutionary impacts on the offspring. Consider the way a person who is 1/2 European and 1/2 African looks. Now consider how someone who is only 1/8 or 1/16 mixed with another race looks. Neanderthal mixture is much less than that.

[EgalitarianJay]

@cabadejo Look up the article Study: Neanderthal DNA Lives On in Modern Humans by Jennifer Pinkowski. It says the following about this finding, "The Neanderthal DNA appears in the modern human genomes randomly, suggesting it offers no evolutionary benefit and is merely a genetic relic." This is obvious. The anatomical differences between modern humans and Neanderthal are very distinct. DNA analysis indicates ancient inbreeding but their contribution to the gene pool is insignificant.

[HistoryHmoobGuy]

ASIAN = SUPERIOR

[7shocker]

Hardcore pawn. Self explanatory.

[Wanda7771]

gmc,Yea, and I suppose all YOUR coments are based on first-hand original research that you yourself did in your own home-grown laboratory with your disection knife in one hand and your microscope at your side,Or maybe you just read it in the "Final Recall" eh?

[gmccall22]

@Wanda7771 Do you have a problem commenting directly to me?. My comments are of my own vitality. Perhaps I'm going over your head with the vitality thing. Apparently you've never wrote a dissertation. And why would I need a dissecting knife and a microscope? Geneticists haven't found anything! My "research" is in adventure IE traveling the globe, meeting people of different cultures etc. Books aren't the tell all to end all.

[TheDragon967]

WHY DOES EVERYONE KEEP SAYING WHITE, BLACK, AND ASIAN? WHERE ARE THE SOUTH ASIANS AND MIDDLE EASTERN AND MEXICANS AND HISPANICS? WHY ARE WE NOT CONSIDERED PART OF ANY RACE.

[constance380]

This is true to group africans all as one is stupid and bilittling to my people blacks an africans are the most diverse people on this planet...

[leotakesleo]

@constance380 : this just a stupid video. Dont waste your time! This monkey in the video thinks that his dad is a monkeY! lol

[Wanda7771]

gmccall, GURU? lol. Whats guru got to do with this topic? You are off the track DUDE

[gmccall22]

@Wanda7771 What's guru got to do with this? In YOUR case, EVERYTHING.I've read your comments.Hardly any original thought. Mostly stuff you've looked up that has been refuted. An 8th grader can do that and copy it here...Is my ENTIRE comment to you "off the track"? I think not, considering you have no rebuttal..."It won't be long before WE can explain a lot of things"? Future predictions! WOW. Illogical thinking there DUDE!

[Wanda7771]

Studies suggest that intelligence is affected by DENDRITES and by FOLDS in brain tissue.If IQ is related to physical structure and size of braines, it wont be long before we can explain a lot of things, eh?(((GREENCUBE, I never said that caucasian only applied to European)))

[gmccall22]

@Wanda7771 As of now, g(general intelligence) is defined. IQ tests are actually futile as an accurate measure of HUMAN intelligence. Once one figures out what an IQ test wants from them, scores will improve, and has regardless of race. HUMAN intelligence is not fundamentally fixed....Although research is good exercise for the mind, but being a guru follower shows a lack of vitality and creative energy. How much of your own brain are you really using? Not much from what I'm seeing

[TheBigLeeg]

@Wanda7771 you r right and never let these pc brownnoses discourage you. The facts speak for themselves. just look atthe worlds achievement gaps. As well, who is making the greatest contibutions to todays acheivements.

[Wanda7771]

GreenCup, you want to play semantics about "opressed" and "outcast".But if you are outcast you R opressed, and visa-versa.DUH

[Wanda7771]

Einstein was a member of a persecuted opressed (cast) group in Germany, somehow it didn't affect his IQ, nor did it affect the many other Jewish doctors and scientists in Germany.Don't tell me they were not a "cast" group, unless you want to concede that they were even MORE rejected than a "cast" group.New scientific evidence says that Jews have more"DENDRITES" in their brains. This causes higher intelect.So guess we'll have to wait for more studies.Jews have always been smarter.NO.I'm NOT ONE.

[Wanda7771]

Jews were a "cast group opressed group" for ages, yet their IQ'snever sufferd.There goes that theory out the window. It must have come from an Afrocentric website.

[EgalitarianJay]

@Wanda7771 IQ studies didn't exist during the most significant incidents Jewish oppression. Ashkenazi Jews were able to find work in some select occupations which afforded them great wealth. Some attribute this to emphasis on early literacy as Jewish children are taught to read the Torah from a young age. Early IQ studies were used to prove some European immigrants were mentally inferior to White Americans including Jewish immigrants and the tests reflected this theory back then.

[GreenCupReel]

@Wanda7771

Jews were never oppressed. They were outcasted.

There is a difference.

[Wanda7771]

mxzysptik, WRONG.Neanders had brains as large as modern humans at birth and larger than ours at adulthood.How the hell can you know they lacked abstract thought? YOU CAN'T."All interpretations about Neanderthal cognition will always be speculative."(National Geographic)All humans except Africans have Neander. genes. That includes Asians and Caucasians, who are both smarter than blacks so maybe there's a connection there?You must be getting stuff from Afrocentric sources, (always dubious)

[Wanda7771]

mxzy, Oh so you are admitting there ARE disparities? Leme mark that down cuz I'm sure you will deny you said it

[mxzysptlik]

@Wanda7771 I really question the emotional stability of someone that is so forceful with these kind of arguments but does not back them up with evidence. Seriously stop listening to racist, eugenicist pseudo-science.

[mxzysptlik]

@Wanda7771 It's obvious there are disparities. The question you should be asking isn't whether there are disparities or not, the question you should be asking is whether these disparities are bizarre considering the history of blacks as an oppressed group. Looking at other caste groups in the world they clearly are not bizarre. Why anyone would waste his time debating a fool like Rushton is beyond me.

[Wanda7771]

CaucASIANS were from western Asia and migrated to Europe where they bred with Neanderthals to produce a superior race of humans by combining the better genes of both races lol

[GreenCupReel]

@Wanda7771 lmfao. where did you learn this nonsense?

Caucasian [does not] mean European. The Caucasians are Indians, Arabs, Persians, Europeans, etc. -- In addition, Neanderthals were found to have lived all throughout the Eurasian plate continent. I don't know if you've ever seep a world map, but uh, Europe is connected to Asia. The term 'Caucasian' was proposed by German scientist Johann Friedrich Blumenbach. His studies based the classification of the Caucasian race primarily.

You dolt.

[Wanda7771]

mxzy,So Europeans bred with Neanderhtals, who were also humans, what's wrong with that? If they hadn,'t you wouldn't see any redheads today.Neanders had bigger brains and were probably smarter than other people

[mxzysptlik]

@Wanda7771 Neanderthals had smaller brains and lacked abstract thought. And Neanderthals were not Homo sapiens.

[Wanda7771]

He's lying about the maps. I have NEVER seen a map with Africa that small.

[mxzysptlik]

Why does this debate always hing around black people? lol. Considering that blacks were A) enslaved and discriminated against for 4 centuries that probably explains a lot of disparities we see. Youtube science lecture...very funny!

[mxzysptlik]

For some reason this video was in my "suggestions". These comments are just wow. It's clear to me that education in the U.S, especially science, is a complete joke.

[Wolfkidmaga]

And African

[Wolfkidmaga]

I'm mix Uerope

[Wanda7771]

Whereas inbreeding with a different but similar species would not be a mutation.Lucy fits the bill perfectly and also explaines the smaller African brain size and stronger body, arm and leg lengths, etc A perfect explanation for the great genetic diversity out of Africa.Mutations make a species weaker not stronger. Just as the white man interbred with the Neanderthal, the black man interbred with Lucy.My theory's as good as Darwins.

[sethaus75]

@Wanda7771 Here you go again, polluting another video. Africans don't have smaller brain sizes, nor do they have stronger bodies. Arm and leg lengths? Are you insane? Africa isn't a small country consisting of a few individuals who all fit into your ideal. On the one hand you say that Africans have great genetic diversity, then you you say they have no diversity whatsoever.

Mutations make a species weaker? Duh...mutations = evolution. So you'd rather be a little rat like creature?

[GiggleHz]

@sethaus75 blacks/sub saharan aficans AVERAGE, say it with me now, AVERAGE smaller brains than whites, by around 5 cubic inches, whites in turn AVERAGE 1 cubic inch smaller brains than east asians. there are always exceptions but again AVERAGES do wonders.

[EgalitarianJay]

@GiggleHz Yeah we get it. The problem with your claim is that it's not true. This race/brain size/intelligence garbage was debunked years ago.

[sethaus75]

@GiggleHz I'm very familiar with W. Africans and very familiar with whites. W. Africans, on avg, have larger heads than whites, consequently they have larger brains.

I've not done a study on brain sizes but no one else has done a credible study either. But I know from non-scientific observations that W. Africans have larger brains than whites on average. I won't speak to other black Africans, as I'm not sure.

Also, the notion that Asians have larger brains than W. Africans is farcical.

[Wanda7771]

Jay, I do not believe in evolution. Evolutionary theory requires long ages. That's why scientists stress long ages to accomodate the theory of evolution. Otherwise it wouldn't work.They are continually adjusting their theories to accomodate what they want to prove. My theory's as good as theirs,Since they don't have any proof either.I'm sure Lucy's DNA supplied plenty of diversity, since her bones are even "older"So did the other so-called ape men.Mutations usually die out since they are defects

[Wanda7771]

Maybe the Africans bred with the pre-hominids such as Lucy, whereas the rest of the world didn't. Its safe to say that Lucy's DNA contribution to the African genome would have given it a lot more diversity eh?

[EgalitarianJay]

@Wanda7771 No. Africans are more genetically diverse because humans have lived in Africa longer than anywhere else. It takes time for mutations to arise so the longer a population has been around the more mutations it will have.

[mxzysptlik]

@Wanda7771 There is no proof of that. However, there is proof that Europeans bred with Neanderthals but I'm sure you won't touch that one.

[Raybanmonster]

@HeCameHeSawGROID

REST IN PEACE HeCameHeSawGROID. I PROMISED YOU ID TAKE YOUR ACCOUNT OUT FOR FERAL RACIST BIGOTRY AND YOU LAUGHED AND INSULTED BLACK PEOPLE.. AND NOW LOOK. pHWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA WHAT A GREAT MOMENT. BASKING IN THE SUNSHINE LEFT BY YOUR REMOVAL AND IT IS REALLY BEAUTIFUL. RACIST BASTARD

[GiggleHz]

college degrees are worth about as much as toilet paper, education is not synonymous with intelligence unfortunately. Look at most colleges, take a gander at their sports programs see all the blacks? now go take a peek at their scores, are they in college because of their intelligence or because they can run a bit faster than their white contemporaries? And somehow each and everyone one of them gets a degree, shocking.

[mxzysptlik]

@GiggleHz Then how does one measure intelligence? IQ correlates with education, the more education the the higher the IQ. Are you saying that IQ doesn't correlate with intelligence or are you simply changing the rules because it suits your argument?

[Raybanmonster]

48.9 percent of all African immigrants to the U.S. hold a college diploma. This is more than double the rate of native-born white Americans, and nearly four times the rate of native-born African Americans.

In 1997, 19.4 percent of all adult African immigrants in the United States held a graduate degree, compared to 8.1 percent of adult white Americans and 3.8 percent of adult black Americans in the United States, respectively. Source US CENSUS BUREAU DATA. so get real

[DarwinzFriend]

Silicon valley, is the home of the brightest and most creative minds in our nation.

The 2010 census of silicon valley showed it's population was:

78% white

19% Asian

2.7% other(mostly native American or non-black ,Pacific islander)

0.3% Black

This dramatically illustrates the fact that blacks have the most primitive brains of any race.

It is truly heartbreaking to watch the primitive black race struggling to survive amongst intellectually superior whites and Asians.

[Mumbundu]

@DarwinzFriend th european & mongoloid intelect or IQ, is based on the Neanderthal gene, this gene is what drives them to developemt, which I belive is more 50% not 4%. The origginal humans aka africans dont have it, hence the spritual nature, the europeans and African are complitely different specie if I may say. they have complitely different direction in life, european are more atached to material, hence the distruction aka development, Africans hav a more spiritual nature, hence the vudu.

[mxzysptlik]

@Mumbundu Dude you obviously have never taken a science class. If Neanderthals were so superior humans, from Africa mind you, would not have driven them extinct. I really feel sorry if you actually believe the nonsense that came out of your mouth.

[Mumbundu]

@mxzysptlik What ever yu understood I did not mean it. I know what yu talkin about.

[chrishillification]

@DarwinzFriend hahahaha right. People cant handle the truth these days no what im sayin?

[PumpingSmashkins]

@chrishillification Are you kidding? The truth is literally criminal these days.

[chrishillification]

@PumpingSmashkins what??

[HeCameHeSawGROID]

@TheTruthcentric Because the differences are obvious. And that makes sense because the Sahara is a serious barrier to gene flow. If you are referring to Egyptians, they are classed as Caucasian. I don't know about Somalis, to me they look Negroid. There are grey areas.

[HeCameHeSawGROID]

@TheTruthcentric I think Lieberman and other Jewish "scholars" transparent bullshit detract from their authority, and I then go on to suggest jewish racism as the explanation.

[Raybanmonster]

@HeCameHeSawGROID

Phwahahahaaa

I doubt anyone comes to Youtube for your take on an ancient African Country, do you?

[Raybanmonster]

@HeCameHeSawGROID

Go away mentally ill quackazoid.

Your musings are embarassing

[EgalitarianJay]

@HeCameHeSawGROID In fact Disotell is talking about the fallacies of such racial classification in this section of the video.

[HeCameHeSawGROID]

@EgalitarianJay Whether or not it is an appropriate classification doesn't change the fact the Negroid = Black and that the entire medical profession ignores Disotell.

[EgalitarianJay]

@HeCameHeSawGROID I'm basically saying that Negroid = Black. And no medical doctors do not ignore Anthropologists. Anthropologists have actually made suggestions to medical researchers on how to study demographic groups when considering genetic and environmental factors influencing health.

[EgalitarianJay]

@HeCameHeSawGROID Negroid = Negro (latin for black) + oid (resembling or like). So like I said it means resembling a Black. It's a label to describe certain characteristics and was commonly used in anthropology for many years. But its usage in science has declined because it is a throwback to the long discredited essentialist model of race.

[HeCameHeSawGROID]

@EgalitarianJay "it is a throwback to the long discredited essentialist model of race."

This line of thinking is stupid. Should we have a new term for fish because of the discredited "dolphins are fish" model. No, we MOVE ON TO THE NEW MODEL. Everyone else in science seems to get that.

[EgalitarianJay]

@HeCameHeSawGROID Anthropologists have moved on to new models of conceptualizing human variation and left race behind.

[HeCameHeSawGROID]

@EgalitarianJay Meanwhile people who need to save lives instead of waffling the latest politically correct BS still use race.

[HeCameHeSawGROID]

@EgalitarianJay "Anthropologists have moved on to new models of conceptualizing human variation and left race behind."

You people on the extreme left seem to have this problem where you say "most scientists believe" when what you mean is "I and my quack buddies believe". Do you have a reliable source that "Anthropologists" (all of them?) left race behind? Don't bother, I have one proving they didn't, even in the politically "correct" Watson got fired world.

[EgalitarianJay]

@HeCameHeSawGROID All of them? No. Most of them? Yes.

Source: How "Caucasoids got such big crania and why they shrank: From Morton to Rushton

.....

[EgalitarianJay]

@HeCameHeSawGROID Negroid = Resembling a Black. It's an old anthropological labeling that most regard as having no scientific value today. Nubians were an ethnic group that were often enemies of Egypt but sometimes allies and eventually conquerors and rulers of Egypt.

[SniperMaske]

I see some people are, once again, contending in the comments that “race doesn’t exist”.

Well, Race is a perfectly valid concept; see Steve Sailer’s article “Making Sense of the Concept of Race: A Race Is An Extremely Extended Family”.

isteve.com/makingsense.htm

His arguments are crystal clear.

[EgalitarianJay]

@SniperMaske His definition is arbitrary because there are no clear cut boundaries defining an extended family. Experts on human evolution tend to agree that the concept of subspecies is equivalent to race and argue about its validity based on that definition. I think everyone can agree that human genetic variation exists and that such variation can be ancestry informative which is the point Sailer is making. The argument over the existence of race ends up being a semantic dispute.

[Raybanmonster]

@retrogamerist

There is no such thing as "negroid". You must mean Nubians, who neighboured the Egyptians and united Upper and Lower Egypt. and by the way, they were black and called the black Pharaohs in most academic institutions on the subject.

[davidcici11]

@Raybanmonster true terms like Negroid and Caucasoid are filtered in by Pseudo-scientist who are obsessed with old anthropological literature. These terms in some cases can be used to predict ancestry but it can't reliable when it is on a global scale. Even though their is some debate around M1 being either African or Asian specific Negrito's in Southeast Asia although they cluster with Africans in cranial studies they are not related to Africans genetically. In fact all major groups have roots

[mirarostodo]

I am not a scientist, not even went to college(worst mistake ever), but I am somewhat of an 'observant' kind of person and it is noticeble, by seeing different people's and their behaviour, I have noticed that Negroids are less developed, intellectually speaking, they are mostly, for what I have noticed that they are more emotional, childish and prompt to react before "thinking"(understanding and predicting the consecuences of their "present moment" actions).

[TheNarcMan]

@mirarostodo

At least you're honest about your lack of academic pedigree. I'd hate for someone to think this was coming from someone with a pHD.

There are inhuman animals, monsters, in modern day Russia who would make Tupac Shakur blush. Violent moronic gangsters from Palermo & Sicily who spread to the new world in America. Whites spread around the world carving up the earth like fat kids in an unwatched ice cream shop. Excuse me for noticing immaturity & violence are universal to most cultures.

[TheNarcMan]

@mirarostodo

And when you're talking about black Africans all being a certain way you're talking about a people more different from each other from place to place than any other "race" on earth. One African is more genetically different to another African then either of them are to anyone else on earth.

So where is the gene for this inherited IQ & behaviour when Africans don't even all share the same genes or allele expressions? Look up Badaria, Nubia, Abyssinia, Axum, Empire of Ghana from 800AD

[mirarostodo]

@TheNarcMan Good point. "Semitic Blacks" meaning Somalis, Tuareg, Ethiopians (Amharic,Tigre, Falasha Jews) and Arabs from Sudan, Mauritania are more restrained in their actions, more modest. Also people like the Somalis have the same cranial dimensions as Caucasians & are as sophisticated culturally speaking as their Semitic cousins to the North(Egypt, Libya). Some people will take these points I am making as senseless myths, but you need to see life & human history as it is, not as an utopia.

[TheNarcMan]

@mirarostodo

"more restrained in their actions"

More restrained? Have you been paying attention to recent African history?

"Somalis have the same cranial dimensions as Caucasians"

What's a causasian? Part 1 of this debate showed you why your classifications aren't accepted by science. Is a Palestinian the same as a Frenchman? Is that your idea of a "race"?

This also appeals to the idea that skull & brain size mean something in terms of IQ & intelligence. Read some recent science journals.

[TheNarcMan]

@mirarostodo

"Some people will take these points I am making as senseless myths"

Including 70 to 80% of American Anthropologists. All Rushtons arguments made in this 1997 video make him look stoopid now. 1997 was an eternity ago scientifically. He & the Pioneer Fund have a non science based agenda which has been exposed by real science.

Blacks had empires in the heart of Africa that Muslims & Portuguese like Vincente Pegado stumbled on centuries ago as far back as 800AD. No race IQ genes exist.

[WDF123456789ify]

@EarlReqent Dude im not saying that intelligence is only the brain size. the intelligence depend alot of the intern organisation. What i was trying to say the size may be a bit different but i was also saying that the intern organisation of the brain is not the same thing than niggers.

[WDF123456789ify]

@Raybanmonster srry i dont wanted to ofend you but im not a white nigger u fucking retard.I just said we are different from niggers.Watever we are not the same thing and i tried to say there is difference in brain structure. plus why are u loking at me look at those comment before who are much more offensive idiot.

[EarlRegent]

@WDF123456789ify Yes and a whale has a much larger brain than you. What does that indicate/

[Raybanmonster]

@WDF123456789ify

You are still a stupid man, trying to claim brain differences. Get an education and stop following quack science on Youtube.

PICK UP SOME FUCKING BOOKS.

[Vengrence]

@Raybanmonster That's very ironic of you to say. You agree with the concept of evolution, correct? So are you honestly going to claim that evolution didn't affect anything above the neck? Are you that naive?

[Raybanmonster]

@Vengrence

The problem here is yr lack of knowledge regarding gene proliferation.

Clearly evolution affects the whole genome. What is absurd is your inference that human beings belong to separate distinct groups despite sharing exactly the same Medical nomenclature used by Doctors the world over. lol. You have to come better than that to come here and try and outfox a black guy you clearly underestimate with your skanky school-leaverat 11 knowledge.Fuck sake, doesnt your ignorance bother you?

[Vengrence]

@Raybanmonster I'm not sure how I'm supposed to answer you. You didn't answer my question, but when off on a tangent unrelated to evolution dynamics in brain development. Then you finished it off with very droll ad hominems. For calling yourself smart, your intellect doesn't match up to your claims.

[Raybanmonster]

@Vengrence

I have answered your question comprehensively. Again, it is your lack of education, your lack of perceptional maturity that blinds you to this. This tells me you are cognitively about average, unfortunately you are nothing special so its ok. forget I said anything.

[Vengrence]

@Raybanmonster My lack of education? This is like me slobbering and screaming incomprehensible bullshit at people, and blaming them for not understanding it. Your nonsensical statement makes as much sense as stating that the sky is blue when someone asks you about chromosomes.

[urbanurban12]

@Raybanmonster Google it you dumb fck, visit a medical library. Differences in kranial- and neuroanatomy between races and genders is a scientific truth. It has nothing to do with racism or prejudice, just medical science. You are prejudice though; you want your worldview to be true so bad that u don´t even test your assumptions. Scientific method; 1. Form a hyphotesis " Race and IQ don´t correlate" Step 2; Try prove you hyp. wrong from every angle to see if it holds. Scared of what u will find?

[Raybanmonster]

@urbanurban12 Calm down silly man. I dont say this to mean I am better than you, but when I tell you, I have a degree in Biochemistry, and you come here telling me to Google things and visit a medical library you will recognise why I dont take you seriously at all. First you are trying to create a scientific category that doesnt exist. RACE IS NOT A TAXONOMIC SUBCLASS you BOZO! IT is a social construct only, A GENERALISATION, as such ANYTHING ABOUT RACE IS A GENERALIZATION silly clown

[PumpingSmashkins]

@Raybanmonster LMAO @ "pick up some books." You REALLY don't want him to do that if you insist on his believing your absurd fantasies that you laughably consider knowledge.

Not "believing in" (aka recognizing) brain differences between races is the PC version of young-earth crationism. Profound ignorance. Except it's even worse than that, isn't it? Because the differences here are so earth-shatteringly obvious.

[Raybanmonster]

@PumpingSmashkins

ARE YOU SOME KIND OF CLOWN? Pick up some fucking books. There is no evidence for any difference in Brain chemistry of organization in the world. There is no genetic component that differences by the races else we would not be the same species you clown., and the way we treat diseases would be very different between the races you clown. SO YES PICK UP SOME FUCKING BOOKS, OUTLANDISH CROSS EYED JACKASS. FUCK SAKE , your HILARIOUS lolol

[PumpingSmashkins]

@Raybanmonster Yeah, okay, genius, whatever you say. Here's a better idea: why don't you prove your preposterous notion that there is no difference in intelligence, since, a. that's the assertion that clearly bears the overwhelming burden of proof, and b. that's how scientific studies work--your null hypothesis would be that intelligence is the same. Good luck! Will be eagerly awaiting your results.

[Raybanmonster]

@PumpingSmashkins

The problem here is your education in science, particularly your lack of knowledge of Brain chemistry and genetics and of course sociology. I do not need to prove anything because you fail to understand that there is NOTHING TO PROVE. We are all given a Brain, if we are healthy, we use it adequately ACCORDING TO THE FEEDBACK GAINED FROM interacting with our immediate environment, else study and hard work would not lead to brain improvement.lol Clearly u r no academic mind

[PumpingSmashkins]

@Raybanmonster Actually, I only made one mistake (not that you even attempted to refute any mistakes) and that was what your null hypothesis would be. It would be that average intelligence by race is NOT the same. Disproving that to a 95% degree of confidence would be roughly considere scientific "proof" that they are. But you didn't catch that fundamental error, yet I'm the one whose scientific education is lacking. LOL. You're a joke.

[Raybanmonster]

@PumpingSmashkins

Black African immigrants to the USA outscore EVERY OTHER RACIAL GROUP for Degree attainment, including US born whites and Asians. US Census burea data, available in PDF online now 2002 onward. This fact is repeated in Europe too. From your inferences, this is statistically valid and using your own stupidity, places Black Africans highest for mental ability as a degree is a better indication of advancement than an IQ test, You are a QUACK, nothing more, nothing less.

[PumpingSmashkins]

@Raybanmonster LMAO. You've posted that same statistic a hundred times on a hundred different videos, because it's clearly the only statistic in your arsenal that even (feebly, at best) acts as some sort of refutation. Great to see you so predictably fall back on it once again, despite its relevance to the argument having repeatedly and thoroughly dismissed. Speaking of "dismissed," class is now dismissed. I'm dones with your weak ass.

[Raybanmonster]

@PumpingSmashkins

Yawn. I post it because it is excellently efficient at destroying your nonsensical argument about IQ and race, and notice how you cannot refute it? Phwahahahahaaaaa

[PumpingSmashkins]

@Raybanmonster LMAO. You've posted that same statistic a hundred times on a hundred different videos, because it's clearly the only statistic in your arsenal that even (feebly, at best) acts as some sort of refutation. Great to see you so predictably fall back on it once again, despite its relevance to the argument having repeatedly and thoroughly dismissed. Speaking of "dismissed," class is now dismissed. I'm done with your weak ass. Your assignment is to grow a brain cell.

[WDF123456789ify]

we are just not the same thing than fucking niggers

[Raybanmonster]

@WDF123456789ify

WE? are not the same same thing? are you the same as a Paeofdophile? what makes you think that black dude from Mali is the same as a black guy working for Microsoft? .. lol what a stupid angry upity irrational white Nigger.

[Raybanmonster]

@omegapoint777

race exists yes.. IN YOUR MIND... but you refuse to admit that . I blame your parents and the company you keep. You will learn but unfortunately this will be in the seconds before you die or your mother dies... or when you lose a body part and witness the feeling of alienation from idiots JUST LIKE YOU. yes YOU who are so shallow they overlook you just because you have become physically different. How fucking low can you go? if yr so great why arnt YOU in the white House? huh?

[HeCameHeSawGROID]

@Raybanmonster "Damn, black people are retarded and I'm black. This is embarassing. What can I do? GOT IT! I'll just claim "race does not exist" with no evidence or reasoning, maybe setting up a discrete homogenous essentialist strawman, and then there is no such thing as black people so we are not retarded! I win that one!"

[Raybanmonster]

@HeCameHeSawGROID banal, meaningless and of no academic value whatsoever Im afraid. Typical.

[EgalitarianJay]

@HeCameHeSawGROID Show me a video on Youtube by a scholar who actually argues that races exist and presents evidence. And not some White Nationalist propaganda video but a scholar who is actually an authority on human biology.

[HeCameHeSawGROID]

@EgalitarianJay Oh you want a youtube video rather than an academic text. News: Real scientists are not interested in making politically motivated propaganda. But let me assure you that the elite strata of British academia in the relevant field have concluded race exists and published as so. Sorry, they didn't seem to bother making youtube videos, or color by numbers kindergarten books.

[EgalitarianJay]

@HeCameHeSawGROID Go ahead and show me an academic article on the issue. I mentioned Youtube because we are on Youtube and you are constantly criticizing scholars for their position but who supports yours? Disotell is a professor of Biological Anthropology at New York University. I'm not appealing to authority and saying he's right because he has credentials however I'd like to see who the opposition has on their side to be so arrogant about the belief they have the scientific high ground.

[HeCameHeSawGROID]

@EgalitarianJay I already explained Lewontin's fallacy. I don't have time to repeat myself.

[EgalitarianJay]

@HeCameHeSawGROID How about citing an actual article? If you can't find a video supporting your argument surely there is an article by an expert that you can refer to. The point I am making is about currency. What leading scientists today who are an authority on human biology are actually making the argument that there are biological races supported by empirical evidence?

[maxfirepower]

@EgalitarianJay Well, here's one: ( Race and IQ - The IQ data is out - in Danish television - YouTube.flv )

Of course, they are "white people" so immediately suspect. One can always tell if a scientist is a racist: they come out with research that disagrees with "modern social anthropology".

[EgalitarianJay]

@maxfirepower Your sarcasm is not appreciated. But I'll give you credit for referencing a video. I just watched the video. It can be summarized as a news segment on Race & IQ featuring an interview with Lone Frank, a Danish science journalist. She complained about political correctness in scholarship and accused opponents of racialism of ideological bias. After mentioning some IQ stats she name dropped The Bell Curve as research supporting a genetic hypothesis for the cause ethnic IQ gaps.

[EgalitarianJay]

@maxfirepower She doesn't offer anything new to the debate and nothing she spoke on is an argument in favor of race being a biological reality. She basically assumes races exist and insists that there is credible scientific research which supports the theory of genetic differences in group intelligence that should not be dismissed because it's controversial or offends people. I'm looking for an opposing position to Disotell. A scientists who talks about a biological basis for race.

[maxfirepower]

@EgalitarianJay Honestly, and I'm not trying to anger you here, but everytime a person IS cited like Watson, Mac Donald, Rushton, or Eysenck etc. they are not "experts" or somehow the "wrong" kind of scientist or simply "have been discredited". Then, there is the name-calling and semantic hair-splitting. The same applies to the other side of the argument as well so this has become a "faith-based" question no matter which side you may tend to. Is light a particle or a wave phenomenon?

[EgalitarianJay]

@maxfirepower Credibility is relevant to topics like this because merely citing a scholar and saying they are right does not make it so. Take James Watson for instance. He's often cited as an authority on the topic supporting a racialist view. The reason given is that he is a co-discoverer of the structure of DNA. So he's a prominent scientist, yes. But what are his views based on? Did he do in field or laboratory work? No, he just gave an opinion based on reading a book by Richard Lynn...

[EgalitarianJay]

@maxfirepower That's what I'm talking about when I dismiss certain claims. There is no substance to certain arguments. Rushton, Jensen etc. have actually done research on the topic and constructed theories. I maintain that they've been refuted and this video is evidence. Viewers are free to make their own judgments and give opinions on this video. It's here for educational purposes. I have debated the details of the topic on message boards against those who still support Rushton.

[maxfirepower]

@EgalitarianJay Well, you seem pretty reasonable about it and call the informational video "evidence".

Look at some of these people's comments here. Most of these are not taking the debate anywhere other than illustrating that animus is not exclusive to any group -however you define them. I doubt that these names would be exchanged if they were vis-a-vis -or not for long, anyway.

Sarcasm withdrawn and I do thank you for your video and civility.

[EgalitarianJay]

@maxfirepower This is a very sensitive subject. We're talking about something that effects people on a deep, personal level. I honestly find Rushton et al.'s theories to be insulting however what if they are true? Then these men are simply reporting on a scientific truth. But what if they are wrong and can be shown to be wrong? Then they are promoting false theories that are also socially harmful. This video is meant to educate and inform viewers that there are scientific rebuttals to racialism.

[Raybanmonster]

@omegapoint777

Race is a not a scientific taxonomic subclass is it? Epic Fail its a social constructand thus confined to social aspects of Psychology, is melanin exclusive to any "race"? NO

Cluster analysis? oh so you do understand that genes are typically clustered and not therefore linked to any intelligence component per se? Good because udont behave like u know that to me.

The subtext is racist. This means many have not developed Empathy for human beings with divergent phenotype

[Raybanmonster]

@omegapoint777

I have two degrees and my FIRST is in BIOCHEMISTRY from London you jackass supercilious homunculus... fuck off

[Raybanmonster]

@omegapoint777

your lack of education makes you shout out silly things never said in the first place Im afraid. Your country is led by a black family. get over it and get on with your life.

[Raybanmonster]

@TheTruthcentric Well you better believe it, because many people with academically gifted insight seem to agree whereas you refuse to believe because you have racist views and a lack of education in this area so you cling to highly embarrassing names in the science filed like Rushton who was disgraced by popular research magazines like NATURE for engaging in "Psuedoscience". stop embarrassing yourself.

[Raybanmonster]

"A Scientific Debate on Race and Intelligence"??? Phwahahahahaaaa are you serious? Since when was RACE a scientific taxonomy? what a red herring this is. This is not scientific, this is racist, that is why race studies will rarely get funding, not because it is politically incorrect but because there IS NO SUCH RESEARCH FIELD with ANY credibility in science WHATSOEVER.

[HeCameHeSawGROID]

@Raybanmonster "that is why race studies will rarely get funding"

"Racial differences in the responses to shear stress in human umbilical vein endothelial cells." July 2011 - Retard.

"Usefulness of serum mass spectrometry to identify women diagnosed with higher grades of cervical intraepithelial neoplasia may differ by race." July 2011 - Retard

"Deliberating about race as a variable in biomedical research." Apr 2011 - "[...] it is concluded that race sometimes must be considered."

[joakeimmcgrath]

@Raybanmonster You fool! Race is a considereable factor in forensic science, medical science and epidemiology. In the last two fields it is applied for separation of population by prevalence in order to determine high risk groups, to save lifes. Sunscreen for the whites to prevent skin cancer, vitamin D enriched milk for the blacks to prevent colorectal cancer and osteomalacia.Same goes for genetic disorders like sickle cell anemia (blacks), cystic fibrosis (whites), tay-sachs (jews) and so on.

[Raybanmonster]

@joakeimmcgrath

Race is indicator for generalities you dumbass, it is NOT an absolute science. No human being is pure any race you stupid man else please name me a single gene that is exclusive to any "race" please. You are the fool, you think you know shit and you absolutely dont know enough, so you fill the emptiness with hyperbole and many fight your banal stupidity.

.. and by the way none of those diseases mentioned or ailments is exclusive to any race you jackass.

[joakeimmcgrath]

@Raybanmonster Race is an imprint of your ancestors' cultural and dietary habits plus the diseases they did or did not came into contact. Are you fucking illeterate or you just read what you want to read? Can you understand the difference between "high risk group" and "exclusive"? We aren't all the same. You are different epidemiologically and medically-wise from an Arab just as he is from a Japanese or a Native American. You want an exclusive gene? CCR5 Δ-32,Northern Europe, you pompous prick.

[HeCameHeSawGROID]

@Raybanmonster "please name me a single gene that is exclusive to any "race" please."

Sure, after you name a single pixel that is exclusive to pictures of cats, and a single gene that is exclusive to fat people.

[extremophile]

@TheTruthcentric but it's hard to know what "enough time" would be. There can't be a general rule like, "N million years of separation, and then they'd not be able to produce fertile offspring anymore". In some cases two species separated for 2my won't barely generate viable offspring (lions and leopards), but one of these and one that was separated for about 4my (lions and tigers) will. MR is an obsolete hypothesis but there's more evidence to its discredit than just this reasoning.

[Janusha]

@TheTruthcentric

Yet all horse species across the world are able to have offspring. Even with all the enormous differences in horses on all continents.