I like Donner's half finished film better than Lester's full movie. But hey, at least Lester didn't do a lame prequel trilogy twenty years later. And it's nice that this version is finally seeing the light of day.
SeanOrange, I had no idea about this. Thanks for this video; extremely informative. Now let me rush out and buy Richard Donner's cut. That super kiss = memory loss always kinda irritated me since I was a child.
@young5ever The time reversal sequence was originally intended for "Superman II"... that is until Richard Donner was fired by Alexander and Ilya Salkunt.
When Superman 2 came out I remember reading a review of it...don't recall who wrote but they were criticizing the first movie saying how everyone was a bunch of cardboard characters. Well I loved the first one, after that it was all downhill.
@whiskeyify Yeah, that's completely silly. It was great! I enjoyed the second one too, but it was definitely sillified more than Donner would have done. And III, well, let's not talk about that... hahaha
just orderd the superman ultimate collection with the richard donner cut, i cant wait to see it, everybody says that its better than the theatrical version ive got
I like Donner's version better, but the complaint I have is while the forget-kiss thing was kind of stupid, its also stupid for Superman to simply turn back time again. (If he can do that every time, whats the point of him fighting the bad guys in the first place? & Why would he destroy the fortress of solitude, only to turn back time and have it reappear?)
That's one of the problems with this whole thing; Donner's absolute refusal to use any of Lester's footage except where he absolutely had to.
The turning back time ending was the original version of the idea, which was later moved up to the end of the first one (and done to much better effect). Had Donner finished the second film himself, he would have done a different ending. Hard to do 30 years later, so since he wasn't going to use Lester's version, he just used the original one.
@SeanOrange That's why I exuse & simpathize seeing the timeback thing twice, cause it wasn't supposed to be in the first one originaly. There never was supposed to be a scene as serious as LL dieing to make Superman do that. Other than that I thibk the Donner cut is better all together specially knowing that's how it was intended to be from the ver beggining of production.
One minor thing was the quick in bed scene was like 3 seconds and seemed a little out of place in between the other scenes but I also don't blame Donner for that. that's productions greedy screw up. And it looks like he didn't loose his powers yet to have human sex with LL. But it's not like we need an explination lol. It just better helps connect with little Superboy in SM-Returns.
@FishfilmInc I don't think anyone else knew that he was Superman, but yeah there's all the devastation that those three Kryptonians wrought that everyone is going to remember.
@BasilHitsManuel= Here's another. Since Clark/Superman never got his butt kicked by the jackass in the diner, what was the point in going to the diner to break the dude's hand, and humiliating him? That's something that Deadpool would do, not Superman.
I feel that Richard Donner went a little too far in reediting his film, kinda how George Lucas did with Star Wars on DVD with the music and special effects. There are also some scenes in Lester's version that I really liked. I also never really cared about Marlon Brando being in the Superman 2 because of how he was receiving more money than he really deserved
I agree, using all of Donners footage just for the hell of it made for some plot problems and the test footage should never have been used. The ideal superman 2 would be a more even blend of the two versions. I'd love to be given all the material and edit it myself.
Nice review dude. While the Lester version wasn't bad, it gave Superman & Zod's group powers they never had, to many goofy scenes and plot holes. The Donner version feels restored and complete. I perfer Superman changing time again instead of his "Kiss of Forgetfulness" because he it made more sense and Superman doesn't kill in the comics like he did to Zod's group. Great work.
I still think we havent seen the best posssible superman 2 film.Yes some of lesters work might be a bit cheesy,buts lets remember thats the superman 2 we all know and love.I think the paris scene in lesters cut should be ommitted and replaced with lois trying to figure out who superman is and jumping out of window like in donner cut.Also put the brando scene back in to restore supermans powers coz that scene is so powerfull and far better than the mother scene in lesters.apart from that leave it
I've always felt that the thing I liked most about the RDC of Superman 2 over the Lester version was the different way in which Superman loses his powers. In the RDC, he is in a white shirt when he goes in, and still the same shirt when he comes out. Little happens to him when he's in there, and the general glow of red goes throughout the fortress throughout the procedure. When the event is replayed later with the villains, it is not so obvious that he has switched it.
Yeah, there are lots of touches like that which I liked better. As I said above, the only thing I really think is worse is how -- missing a cut from the Lester version -- Clark going back to the diner to terrorize that dude who was a jerk to him doesn't seem as justified. But... it's a small thing!
Have to agree on that for another reason. Assuming that the time reversal undoes Jor-El's death and the destruction of the Fortress, it cheapens those particular sacrifices.
Incidentally, what we're your thoughts on Lois jumping out of the Daily Planet as opposed to the dam as well as shooting Clark with a blank rather than the fire place incident?
I would also liked to see parts of Krypton scenes at the beginning expanded. It's like the Richard Donner Cut omitted much of the theatrical parts and replaced all with the restored Brando presence. Better if they compromized and edited in more of the original exile committee, and then added in Brando's parts.
One thing I absolutely did not like with The Richard Donner Cut was the reversal of time at the end and the inconsistency it creates.
I think a re-edit could make this film spectacular
If you haven't already, watch the special features; they have something to say about that ending. The short version is that they had moved it to be the ending of Superman I (where it works much better, I think).
Had Donner been able to complete his version, they would have written a new ending. As it stands, they had to work with the film available to them. I'm sorry to say that I feel Lester's "hypno-kiss" resolution to this problem is better than another bout of time travel...
i saw the richard donner cut before before the original one and i wasn't really disappointing. except for the time travel. it just makes it too repetitive.
Another scene I wish was included in The Richard Donner Cut was the holographic scene with the mylar/cellophane "S". I liked the mindgames being played during that scene. I also prefer Mount Rushmore over the Washington Monument destruction. I think refacing Rushmore was a symbol of true alien power. A strategic block of C4 could probably topple the monument, the restored scene was kind of weak and didn't say much to me. I think Rushmore was a much better demonstration of power.
Great review and scene breakdown. I just saw The Richard Donner Cut last week and although it is a much better polished movie, I think it would have been more stable if certain scenes from Lester were also included. In particular the scene with Superman's mom would have worked when he converted to human, I thought the dialog was good to the plot/Superman's character and the restored Brando scene where he gets his powers back would have complimented the first scene with his mom.
Superman's mom, though, doesn't fit in with the whole story. His dad was the one who said (paraphrapsed) "I send you off", his dad who teaches him everything, etc. The whole thing is about a father-son dynamic. Plus, his mom was only considered to be used because they were cheapskates.
The ultimate trump card was that, in creating this cut, Donner wanted to use as few of Lester's scenes as possible -- even to the point it might have actually hurt the final product.
I really don't think the goal was to make a better film, but show what might have been (the Lara stuff would never have been filmed, for instance). You know, like a Marvel comic or something.
Agreed but I quite liked some of Susanna York's performance here, like the part where her 'ghost' walks out of the crystal and toward superman to ask him if he's sure, someone made a cut on youtube that competently mixed these 2 performaces of both parents together, most notably with Jor'el of course, but it worked very well and something to think about for hopefully a definitive version in the future
Yeah -- even though the dialogue is the same, the emotional content couldn't be more different. In the Donner version, he loses his powers just so he can get laid, and has to face a somewhat adversarial father to do it. In Lester's version, he's in a post-coital glow confronting a somewhat sympathetic mother.
(Or did I get those backwards?)
Lester's version isn't worthless -- despite what Donner might think. A better fusion of the two will definitely yield the best movie.
I agree with you about the emotional content, and a fusion of the two would work best. One thing you're off on though. Superman didn't lose his powers just to get laid in Donner's version. He actually slept with Lois before he was depowered. He depowered himself so he could devote his life to her and their relationship. Something his responsibility as Superman would never let him do completely.
"You will be different And sometimes You will feel like an outcast You will never be alone You will make my strength your own And you will see my life Through your eyes As your life will be seen through mine The son becomes the father And the Father becomes the son" ^ Wow! did that scene actually happen? I don't recall it, if so disregard my Singerman comment.
I don't get how that line has anything to do with superman having a son. I always thought that it meant Jor-El would live on through Kal-El and Kal-El would relive his father's life through the crystals, thus "the son becomes the father". Singerman never acknowledge that the Munchkin was his nor did he say that line over young Jason. I for one love that line in SUPERMAN the movie, very touching moment between father and son.
@4:42 LMAO!!! Singer's SR create a cohesive Trilogy. WTF???
You have got too be kidding me.
Dude you can not be serious???
Superman Returns is a hack job at best and it makes an outstanding "cohesive Trilogy" with Superman III IV. Thus making Superman Returns the Official Superman V.
Thematically, yes I'm serious. When I heard that "father becomes the son" but in Returns, I thought it was corny (and it is), but when I saw later what Donner had originally intended to do with Jor-El, it clicked. The logical conclusion of that was for Clark to have a son, despite how you may or may not have liked the movie (and I did).
the Lester version is a mish-mash of scenes of Lester's and Donner's... full of excessive humour and poor musical score, the Donner footage is all that stands out!
A very cool dvd review, I've recently watched the Richard Donner Superman 2 cut, it's a little rough around the edges but adds another layer to the 1st two films.
I had waited so long for the Richard Donner cut to be released since I was like 10 years old, being almost 21 now, I am so glad to know what the loopholes were that I had been dying to know. I think Marlon Brando's scenes were very powerful, and there were certainly some religious overtones in there!
Yeah. He may have started out more like a Golem, but over time has morphed into something more Messianic. This is only reinforced by his death and resurrection during the Death of Superman story arc.
Superman Returns stated these themes much more overtly. Superman strikes some cross-like poses, is stabbed in the side with a Kryptonite shiv, and then the Kryptonian prophecy: "The son becomes the father. And the father becomes the son."
If you take the Lester version and cut out anything corny, and add Brando when Superman gets his powers back, you have a perfect movie. I'm planning to make a fan edit at some point.
So, I was totally digging this until you said that last part about Superman Returns making it a cohesive trilogy. Cohesive couldn't be any further from what the "trilogy" was. The fact is, Singer's cherry picking led to major holes in the timeline, which are emphasized by his terrible casting choices of all due (not simply in their inability to deliver convincing performances) to their ages. While I respect what Singer tried to do, he should have realized it couldn't be done. It needed rebooting
Back on point, you really covered the important issues. This is a very informative review. Just when I thought I knew everything about that story you still managed to add to it - ie Hackman's Double amongst others. Good video...Forget about the S-Returns comment, given the timing and context it's understandable. I'm still bitter about waiting so long only to get a weak movie. I know, I know, it's lame.
what they need to do is enhance Superman 1 and 2 with the computer generated graphics of today. Christopher Reeve would look incredible with today's technology.
1. Donner never filmed the Niagara scenes or the Fortress love scenes, so you can't say Lester did it better, because Donner never got the chance to film it!
2. Donner didn't film the Metropolis battle at all. The version on the Donner Cut is simply a re-editing of the Lester footage.
I have seen both versions and in my opinion, the Lester version is much better. The Donner cut didn't make much sense to me. In the scripts it was mentioned that Clark actually put up a fight with the bully, but that didn't happen
I totally agree. If anything, Donner's "comedy" moments were far worse than Lesters. I was disappointed at the omission of the sleazy bellboy scene from the Donner cut, which I always liked. Overall, I think Lester is better at the comedic and romantic scenes, and Lester is better at the spectacle/tragedy. Combine the Brando fortress of solitude scenes with the Lester footage and you would have the definitive Superman 2 cut.
I think you're probably right. Unfortunately Donner's lingering bitterness prevented very little of Lester's footage from being used (the parts that survived were out of necessity). It's like we ended up with something on the other end of the spectrum, when perhaps something in the middle would have been more appropriate.
I'm pretty sure Hackman didn't return because of his schedule. Like Brando, both of their scenes for both movies (shot by Donner) were filmed first. While I enjoyed the majority of DOnners II footage as a curiosty, some of did feel like 'back to back' filming. While some of Lesters 'comedy scenes' were dumb it did feel less like footage that was shot on the same day os the first flick if you catch my drift.
Overall, I think I agree. But it was SO different and meant SO much that I can forgive that the love story sort of took a side-seat to the super-mayhem and "with great power..." theme. Of course, had he been able to complete the film, Donner's handling of the love angle might have better approached Lesters... but who's to say?
Agreed! we may never know. Good love story and good action. Lester's version of the Metropolis battle was better. The plastic S thrown on Non was lame from the Lester version. Liked the intense Eiffel Tower seen in the Lester version. Could have been just rescue of Lois at the Tower and used the rocket scene from the first to lead the release of villains in the second. Many different aprroaches but I still like the movies the way they are especially with now having original cut of 1 on dvd.
Good video documentary. I am a big fan of the first 3 movies. 3 because of Richard Pryor. 4 was ok but Nuclear Man sucked but good action scenes. Returns was ok for a rebirth but seems to fall more between 2 and 3. Invite more comments on 2 or any of the others.
That's right, the powering-up scene was absolutely awesome and a fitting conclusion to the Kal-El/Jor-El relationship. Although I liked the ambiguity and mystery in the Lester cut of Superman having his powers restored with no real explanation, the power-up scene was too good to leave out.
Come on I wanna actually see how he gets his Powers back..the convosation etc can someone upload it on here plz...If not then i want a detailed description...Thanx in advance..;)
It's so good and well thought-out. You could watch it by itself, but you'd rob it of dramatic effect untill you saw all the Jor-El scenes leading up to it.
Donner had a very definite plan, one that I feel is echoed nicely in Smallville.
Isn't there a way to watch the events leading up to it as well as the actual event itself....I mean here on youtube of course...If not then I wouldn't mind jus watching it by itself on here...
I was thrilled watching Donners cut, the Jor-El scenes and the new opening, but I found the film lacking in length compared to the original and the experience seemed to be over too quickly. I prefer the superkiss ending and think they should have used it in this cut, purely cos I dont beleive Donner would have used the time reversing trick twice had he been allowed to finish superman 2 originally
...and it allows for continuity to follow into Superman Returns - Lois would have been made pregnant in superman 2 before he lost his powers, therefore resulting in the half kryptonian child we see in Brian Singers film. I missed some of lesters scenes - The arm wrestling, superman & lois in fortress of solitude before they eat dinner, "Crude Noise maker", and I would have prefered to leave those in if only to pad the length out a bit.
...One other thing i noticed is they tried to replace as much of the music score as they could with John Williams, which is fine, but in two scenes they seem to have looped some of the scores where they didnt have enough music, to make the full music peice and it sounded tacky in places, especially the niagara falls scene when superman rescues the boy from falling.
I have to agree with a lot of that. While he didn't do much of the restoration work himself, Donner was pretty adamant about using as little of Lester's footage as possible, which is a shame since it seemed more like a personal decision than any that was good for the integrity of the film.
Whatever their motive was, it worked. Lets see a show of hands, who wants the saran wrap S in the next movie? .....okay....we got about 3.....I'll call Singer.
I dont get it.I saw the richard donner cut and thought it sucked but are there altered versions of Superman one and two wih additional scenes or something?
There is an extended cut of Superman I (now on DVD). Any extended cuts of Superman II were supplemented with footage seen in the Richard Donner cut -- footage that could not have been included in the theatrical release and still allow Lester to keep director credit.
Yeah, in the original we don't actually see how Superman gets his powers back...One minute we see him walking in the snow, all battered (as he is a mortal)..and the next he just arrives outside the Daily planet and says "Would you care to step outside" to Zod, like nothing happened..Even after his mum sayd there is no going back Lol...I'm assuming he got his powers back via that Green crystal that Lois left on the floor earlier but that's just an assumption....
If you guys had watched the special features on the new and previously released DVDs, you would know the truth. Donner did everything he had to and more. The producers were at fault. If you don't believe me, watch Superman 3 & Supergirl.
I loved that movie as a kid. I still respect it (or rather it's intent) now, but after watching the special features and seeing director Jeannot Szwarc shirtless in his Jabba-the-Hut-like glory while he directed so many scenes, I can only conclude that the man was a lecherous weirdo. He fit right in with the Salkinds!
Donner's cut took it self too seriously and and tried to be funny but failed i think. Lester's was to the point and classy. 'General would you care to step outside'
Not exactly. They took great care to replicate the kinds of effects available in the late '70s. They did use some digitial effects to do so, but they didn't create any CGI models or anything -- all of the effects elements were already filmed and separately stored in their own film reels. All they had to do was put it together! ;)
The new Phantom Zone destruction by nuclar explosion seens to have a few digital look. The blue gas, explosion remain, it pass inside looks digital image to my eyes. Have the edition the approval of Richard Donner?
Nice job SeanOrange. Donner's version even restored 25 years later is so superior to Lester's it's not even funny. Speaking of "not even funny", you did such an excellent job on this, I would love to see you show the awful Lester humor that is no longer in the Donner version, as well as do more of a back-to-back comparison of Donner and Lester. Like the Brando footage vs. the York footage, or like Donner's Lois's tearful "There he goes kid, up, up and away" vs. Lester's "See ya!"
Also when he wants to become Superman again I just find it more dramatic when he starts screaming calling for his mother knowing and he finds that kryptonite looking crystal , really it didnt need a full explanation of how to get his powers back, it was just cool that way.
There was really nothing wrong with the Paris scenes. And the end is equally awful, turning back time is as bad as super kiss.
If superman 2 DC ends with him turning time, then Lois and Clark never hit it, so there is no perfect continuity for this and Superman returs, wich sucked by the way.
Also in lester version he becomes human then does it, in this one he first nails Lois then becomes human , not much sense there.
Just the plastic "S" scene alone in Lester's version makes it inferior. I haven't seen Donner's version just yet, but I've been waiting to see his version for years. I'd go and watch it, but I'm supposedly getting it as a Christmas gift :\
There is no big deal about it. It's crap. Just watch the original version. That's the only one anyone will remember when this version's hysteria has died down.
what version do you like better Ilike this Donner cut better new superman. I Like they explain how he got his powers back blows a hole in Sup 4 where he get cured from "AIDS Like" disease. The thing I have to say about this version is where it shows clark going back to the diner to beat up the bully. I wish they would have either left that out or have re-done it to where clark rescues or saves the bully, kind of chicken SH!$ of Clark to open up a can of whoop butt once he gets his powers back!
Yeah, it makes less sense in this version because he never actually got back up. Originally it was kind of super-dickish because he's Superman and the guy didn't stand a chance, but in the new one he's just being mean for what the guy thinks is no reason.
These things are true. However, it is important to keep in mind that this cut was pieced together almost 30 years after principal production had completed on Donner's version -- which was not complete -- and that the holes were filled in with another director's work. What's more important is to get an idea of the kind of movie Donner would have made. We unfortunately will never get to see that film, but I'm convinced from this presentation that it would have been a better one.
I think people's expectations for the Donner cut were too high. They thought they were getting a seamless new version of Superman 2 and in reality they got the best attempt they could give us at what Superman 2 would have looked like had Donner got to finish it.
Yeah -- they completely redid the opening credits since they go over the early bits before the credits now, and also to reinstate Donner as the director.
Pretty cool, dude. :) I've been a Supes nut my whole life (I'm 30), just watched TRDC the other day when it arrived at my house (ordered early).
I agree that it's very choppy, which is kind of a shame, and Donner could've let a couple Lester scenes in for improvement in quality. But... overall, a much, much better movie. Loved it!
Thanks! Yeah, in the featurette, Thau said that Donner didn't even really want to deal with any of the Lester footage. If he had, he might have made some changes. But still, I'm glad that we have at least this much.
Did he really say "wth did he just kiss her and she lost her memory?" ZOMG that idiot did not read the comics. He did that in the comics, its the kiss of forgetfullness. Wow, see this is why i hate everyone who critics Superman movies today...they are all retards
Well, actually... Superman: The Movie was 1978, and Superman II was 1980. The Crisis was 1986, so.... ;)
Technically the only post-Crisis Superman movie was Superman IV. Uhhmm.... yeah but we know THAT doesn't count. Even Chris Reeve hated talking about it.
I like Donner's half finished film better than Lester's full movie. But hey, at least Lester didn't do a lame prequel trilogy twenty years later. And it's nice that this version is finally seeing the light of day.
williamlaughs 5 months ago
Um, in Lester it was clear. He got his powers from the crystal and the price was his fortress.
DarPower1 6 months ago
Donner was spending way too much get the fuck over it, Lester did freaking genius job. Stop hating and sucking his dick all the time.
DarPower1 6 months ago
You remind me of Spoony from TGWTG.
thesearevideos15 11 months ago
SeanOrange, I had no idea about this. Thanks for this video; extremely informative. Now let me rush out and buy Richard Donner's cut. That super kiss = memory loss always kinda irritated me since I was a child.
tokenguy09 1 year ago
@tokenguy09 But the turning back Earth's rotation that Donner uses (AGAIN!) as a replacement is just as silly
young5ever 1 year ago
@young5ever The time reversal sequence was originally intended for "Superman II"... that is until Richard Donner was fired by Alexander and Ilya Salkunt.
PatRicNasty 8 months ago
When Superman 2 came out I remember reading a review of it...don't recall who wrote but they were criticizing the first movie saying how everyone was a bunch of cardboard characters. Well I loved the first one, after that it was all downhill.
whiskeyify 1 year ago
@whiskeyify Yeah, that's completely silly. It was great! I enjoyed the second one too, but it was definitely sillified more than Donner would have done. And III, well, let's not talk about that... hahaha
SeanOrange 1 year ago
politics almost ruined superman 2
siliconsurf 1 year ago
@siliconsurf Politics almost ruins everything.
SeanOrange 1 year ago
WB should put out a 2 disk edition of SM2 with each version on a disk. THAT I would buy.
metalcoffie 1 year ago
@metalcoffie They've done it, mate. I saw a copy of each version in one box set :)
Thinking I might get it
GenesisKnights 1 year ago
just orderd the superman ultimate collection with the richard donner cut, i cant wait to see it, everybody says that its better than the theatrical version ive got
PhoenixTyler93 2 years ago
I like Donner's version better, but the complaint I have is while the forget-kiss thing was kind of stupid, its also stupid for Superman to simply turn back time again. (If he can do that every time, whats the point of him fighting the bad guys in the first place? & Why would he destroy the fortress of solitude, only to turn back time and have it reappear?)
BasilHitsManuel 2 years ago
That's one of the problems with this whole thing; Donner's absolute refusal to use any of Lester's footage except where he absolutely had to.
The turning back time ending was the original version of the idea, which was later moved up to the end of the first one (and done to much better effect). Had Donner finished the second film himself, he would have done a different ending. Hard to do 30 years later, so since he wasn't going to use Lester's version, he just used the original one.
SeanOrange 2 years ago
Yea, I know they did the best they could. (Which makes it funny that Donner's is far superior)
BasilHitsManuel 2 years ago
@SeanOrange That's why I exuse & simpathize seeing the timeback thing twice, cause it wasn't supposed to be in the first one originaly. There never was supposed to be a scene as serious as LL dieing to make Superman do that. Other than that I thibk the Donner cut is better all together specially knowing that's how it was intended to be from the ver beggining of production.
to be continued...
(running out of characters lol)
tacosalad98 1 year ago
@tacosalad98
One minor thing was the quick in bed scene was like 3 seconds and seemed a little out of place in between the other scenes but I also don't blame Donner for that. that's productions greedy screw up. And it looks like he didn't loose his powers yet to have human sex with LL. But it's not like we need an explination lol. It just better helps connect with little Superboy in SM-Returns.
tacosalad98 1 year ago
@SeanOrange i think the turning back time is better then just erasing lois's memory, because what about everyone else?
FishfilmInc 1 year ago
@FishfilmInc I don't think anyone else knew that he was Superman, but yeah there's all the devastation that those three Kryptonians wrought that everyone is going to remember.
SeanOrange 1 year ago
@BasilHitsManuel= Here's another. Since Clark/Superman never got his butt kicked by the jackass in the diner, what was the point in going to the diner to break the dude's hand, and humiliating him? That's something that Deadpool would do, not Superman.
vigo894 1 year ago
Good video. Thank you.
russofamerica 2 years ago 3
You're welcome!
SeanOrange 2 years ago
I feel that Richard Donner went a little too far in reediting his film, kinda how George Lucas did with Star Wars on DVD with the music and special effects. There are also some scenes in Lester's version that I really liked. I also never really cared about Marlon Brando being in the Superman 2 because of how he was receiving more money than he really deserved
DANIELDUDE1000 2 years ago
Please remove this non sense review thank you!
JLineProductions 2 years ago
I agree, using all of Donners footage just for the hell of it made for some plot problems and the test footage should never have been used. The ideal superman 2 would be a more even blend of the two versions. I'd love to be given all the material and edit it myself.
kalsolarUK 2 years ago
Nice review dude. While the Lester version wasn't bad, it gave Superman & Zod's group powers they never had, to many goofy scenes and plot holes. The Donner version feels restored and complete. I perfer Superman changing time again instead of his "Kiss of Forgetfulness" because he it made more sense and Superman doesn't kill in the comics like he did to Zod's group. Great work.
IncredibleFulk1 2 years ago 3
I have the RDC, awesome stuff. I have seen Superman 2 multiple times, the diferences really makes a different experience.
Greatest moment ever: General Zod shooting soldiers with the M-16. LOL
PavirryPe 3 years ago 2
does anyone understand the hypno kiss
turns2gold 3 years ago
I still think we havent seen the best posssible superman 2 film.Yes some of lesters work might be a bit cheesy,buts lets remember thats the superman 2 we all know and love.I think the paris scene in lesters cut should be ommitted and replaced with lois trying to figure out who superman is and jumping out of window like in donner cut.Also put the brando scene back in to restore supermans powers coz that scene is so powerfull and far better than the mother scene in lesters.apart from that leave it
berniemoonbeam 3 years ago
I've always felt that the thing I liked most about the RDC of Superman 2 over the Lester version was the different way in which Superman loses his powers. In the RDC, he is in a white shirt when he goes in, and still the same shirt when he comes out. Little happens to him when he's in there, and the general glow of red goes throughout the fortress throughout the procedure. When the event is replayed later with the villains, it is not so obvious that he has switched it.
SupermanObsession 3 years ago
Yeah, there are lots of touches like that which I liked better. As I said above, the only thing I really think is worse is how -- missing a cut from the Lester version -- Clark going back to the diner to terrorize that dude who was a jerk to him doesn't seem as justified. But... it's a small thing!
SeanOrange 3 years ago
Have to agree on that for another reason. Assuming that the time reversal undoes Jor-El's death and the destruction of the Fortress, it cheapens those particular sacrifices.
Incidentally, what we're your thoughts on Lois jumping out of the Daily Planet as opposed to the dam as well as shooting Clark with a blank rather than the fire place incident?
Antiyonder 3 years ago
I would also liked to see parts of Krypton scenes at the beginning expanded. It's like the Richard Donner Cut omitted much of the theatrical parts and replaced all with the restored Brando presence. Better if they compromized and edited in more of the original exile committee, and then added in Brando's parts.
One thing I absolutely did not like with The Richard Donner Cut was the reversal of time at the end and the inconsistency it creates.
I think a re-edit could make this film spectacular
C64b 3 years ago
If you haven't already, watch the special features; they have something to say about that ending. The short version is that they had moved it to be the ending of Superman I (where it works much better, I think).
Had Donner been able to complete his version, they would have written a new ending. As it stands, they had to work with the film available to them. I'm sorry to say that I feel Lester's "hypno-kiss" resolution to this problem is better than another bout of time travel...
SeanOrange 3 years ago
i saw the richard donner cut before before the original one and i wasn't really disappointing. except for the time travel. it just makes it too repetitive.
Eddiespice509 2 years ago
Another scene I wish was included in The Richard Donner Cut was the holographic scene with the mylar/cellophane "S". I liked the mindgames being played during that scene. I also prefer Mount Rushmore over the Washington Monument destruction. I think refacing Rushmore was a symbol of true alien power. A strategic block of C4 could probably topple the monument, the restored scene was kind of weak and didn't say much to me. I think Rushmore was a much better demonstration of power.
C64b 3 years ago
Great review and scene breakdown. I just saw The Richard Donner Cut last week and although it is a much better polished movie, I think it would have been more stable if certain scenes from Lester were also included. In particular the scene with Superman's mom would have worked when he converted to human, I thought the dialog was good to the plot/Superman's character and the restored Brando scene where he gets his powers back would have complimented the first scene with his mom.
C64b 3 years ago
Superman's mom, though, doesn't fit in with the whole story. His dad was the one who said (paraphrapsed) "I send you off", his dad who teaches him everything, etc. The whole thing is about a father-son dynamic. Plus, his mom was only considered to be used because they were cheapskates.
slycordinator 3 years ago
The ultimate trump card was that, in creating this cut, Donner wanted to use as few of Lester's scenes as possible -- even to the point it might have actually hurt the final product.
I really don't think the goal was to make a better film, but show what might have been (the Lara stuff would never have been filmed, for instance). You know, like a Marvel comic or something.
Whoops! Did I just say that...? Hahaha
SeanOrange 3 years ago
Agreed but I quite liked some of Susanna York's performance here, like the part where her 'ghost' walks out of the crystal and toward superman to ask him if he's sure, someone made a cut on youtube that competently mixed these 2 performaces of both parents together, most notably with Jor'el of course, but it worked very well and something to think about for hopefully a definitive version in the future
Mikez4 2 years ago
Yeah -- even though the dialogue is the same, the emotional content couldn't be more different. In the Donner version, he loses his powers just so he can get laid, and has to face a somewhat adversarial father to do it. In Lester's version, he's in a post-coital glow confronting a somewhat sympathetic mother.
(Or did I get those backwards?)
Lester's version isn't worthless -- despite what Donner might think. A better fusion of the two will definitely yield the best movie.
SeanOrange 2 years ago
I agree with you about the emotional content, and a fusion of the two would work best. One thing you're off on though. Superman didn't lose his powers just to get laid in Donner's version. He actually slept with Lois before he was depowered. He depowered himself so he could devote his life to her and their relationship. Something his responsibility as Superman would never let him do completely.
Sammi2417 2 years ago
BillyBatsonMarvel 3 years ago
Yup, right before he did the creepy super-stalker thing outside the kid's window, he was in there saying that to him.
SeanOrange 3 years ago
I don't get how that line has anything to do with superman having a son. I always thought that it meant Jor-El would live on through Kal-El and Kal-El would relive his father's life through the crystals, thus "the son becomes the father". Singerman never acknowledge that the Munchkin was his nor did he say that line over young Jason. I for one love that line in SUPERMAN the movie, very touching moment between father and son.
BillyBatsonMarvel 3 years ago
This video and your review was great until you brought up Superman Returns. Stay focus Bro!!!
BillyBatsonMarvel 3 years ago
@4:42 LMAO!!! Singer's SR create a cohesive Trilogy. WTF???
You have got too be kidding me.
Dude you can not be serious???
Superman Returns is a hack job at best and it makes an outstanding "cohesive Trilogy" with Superman III IV. Thus making Superman Returns the Official Superman V.
BillyBatsonMarvel 3 years ago
Thematically, yes I'm serious. When I heard that "father becomes the son" but in Returns, I thought it was corny (and it is), but when I saw later what Donner had originally intended to do with Jor-El, it clicked. The logical conclusion of that was for Clark to have a son, despite how you may or may not have liked the movie (and I did).
SeanOrange 3 years ago
@BillyBatsonMarvel superman returns pretends superman III and IV dont exist
FishfilmInc 1 year ago
@FishfilmInc lol and I pretend superman(singerman) returns does not exist.
;-)
BillyBatsonMarvel 1 year ago
the Lester version is a mish-mash of scenes of Lester's and Donner's... full of excessive humour and poor musical score, the Donner footage is all that stands out!
Gallifrey1991 3 years ago
A very cool dvd review, I've recently watched the Richard Donner Superman 2 cut, it's a little rough around the edges but adds another layer to the 1st two films.
pypeworld 3 years ago 2
Donner's Cut is way better I think.
Riddler95 3 years ago 3
same here
ThatsGoodTellivision 3 years ago
I had waited so long for the Richard Donner cut to be released since I was like 10 years old, being almost 21 now, I am so glad to know what the loopholes were that I had been dying to know. I think Marlon Brando's scenes were very powerful, and there were certainly some religious overtones in there!
Jen8706 3 years ago
Yeah. He may have started out more like a Golem, but over time has morphed into something more Messianic. This is only reinforced by his death and resurrection during the Death of Superman story arc.
Superman Returns stated these themes much more overtly. Superman strikes some cross-like poses, is stabbed in the side with a Kryptonite shiv, and then the Kryptonian prophecy: "The son becomes the father. And the father becomes the son."
Wow, this might be a video all by itself!
SeanOrange 3 years ago
If you take the Lester version and cut out anything corny, and add Brando when Superman gets his powers back, you have a perfect movie. I'm planning to make a fan edit at some point.
Superman Returns put me to sleep.
day50912 3 years ago
So, I was totally digging this until you said that last part about Superman Returns making it a cohesive trilogy. Cohesive couldn't be any further from what the "trilogy" was. The fact is, Singer's cherry picking led to major holes in the timeline, which are emphasized by his terrible casting choices of all due (not simply in their inability to deliver convincing performances) to their ages. While I respect what Singer tried to do, he should have realized it couldn't be done. It needed rebooting
GenoPeppino 4 years ago
If there's one thing I could take back, it would probably be that.
SeanOrange 4 years ago
Back on point, you really covered the important issues. This is a very informative review. Just when I thought I knew everything about that story you still managed to add to it - ie Hackman's Double amongst others. Good video...Forget about the S-Returns comment, given the timing and context it's understandable. I'm still bitter about waiting so long only to get a weak movie. I know, I know, it's lame.
GenoPeppino 4 years ago
what they need to do is enhance Superman 1 and 2 with the computer generated graphics of today. Christopher Reeve would look incredible with today's technology.
Arif21 4 years ago
Yay, and since we're at it, why not replacing Marlon Brando with Hayden Christensen? -_-U
DwightFry78 4 years ago 6
1. Donner never filmed the Niagara scenes or the Fortress love scenes, so you can't say Lester did it better, because Donner never got the chance to film it!
2. Donner didn't film the Metropolis battle at all. The version on the Donner Cut is simply a re-editing of the Lester footage.
lspear25 4 years ago
They should combine Lester and Donner's version into one flick. That would be badass.
oceanbelow 4 years ago
I really could have gone for a more Lester-heavy mix. He did the love story better, but his fight scenes and general Superman mythology were crummier.
In any case, for it to be truly epic they would have had to do an entirely new ending, which -- sadly -- is impossible.
SeanOrange 4 years ago
I have seen both versions and in my opinion, the Lester version is much better. The Donner cut didn't make much sense to me. In the scripts it was mentioned that Clark actually put up a fight with the bully, but that didn't happen
baleheads 4 years ago
Like Donner's comedy scenes (the hulking guy who wets his bed, the Fortress of Solitude toilet) weren't every bit as awful as Lester's...
DwightFry78 4 years ago
I totally agree. If anything, Donner's "comedy" moments were far worse than Lesters. I was disappointed at the omission of the sleazy bellboy scene from the Donner cut, which I always liked. Overall, I think Lester is better at the comedic and romantic scenes, and Lester is better at the spectacle/tragedy. Combine the Brando fortress of solitude scenes with the Lester footage and you would have the definitive Superman 2 cut.
Ashworth6 4 years ago 2
I think you're probably right. Unfortunately Donner's lingering bitterness prevented very little of Lester's footage from being used (the parts that survived were out of necessity). It's like we ended up with something on the other end of the spectrum, when perhaps something in the middle would have been more appropriate.
SeanOrange 3 years ago
do you own the four disc set of the first superman movie ?
Riddler95 3 years ago
Looks great. That dvd is on my list for sure.
horrorfanatic313 4 years ago
I'm pretty sure Hackman didn't return because of his schedule. Like Brando, both of their scenes for both movies (shot by Donner) were filmed first. While I enjoyed the majority of DOnners II footage as a curiosty, some of did feel like 'back to back' filming. While some of Lesters 'comedy scenes' were dumb it did feel less like footage that was shot on the same day os the first flick if you catch my drift.
JackTraven2525 4 years ago
The only good part of Donner's version was Superman geeting his powers back.
bigbill1991 4 years ago 2
Overall, I think I agree. But it was SO different and meant SO much that I can forgive that the love story sort of took a side-seat to the super-mayhem and "with great power..." theme. Of course, had he been able to complete the film, Donner's handling of the love angle might have better approached Lesters... but who's to say?
SeanOrange 4 years ago
Agreed! we may never know. Good love story and good action. Lester's version of the Metropolis battle was better. The plastic S thrown on Non was lame from the Lester version. Liked the intense Eiffel Tower seen in the Lester version. Could have been just rescue of Lois at the Tower and used the rocket scene from the first to lead the release of villains in the second. Many different aprroaches but I still like the movies the way they are especially with now having original cut of 1 on dvd.
bigbill1991 4 years ago
Good video documentary. I am a big fan of the first 3 movies. 3 because of Richard Pryor. 4 was ok but Nuclear Man sucked but good action scenes. Returns was ok for a rebirth but seems to fall more between 2 and 3. Invite more comments on 2 or any of the others.
bigbill1991 4 years ago
That's right, the powering-up scene was absolutely awesome and a fitting conclusion to the Kal-El/Jor-El relationship. Although I liked the ambiguity and mystery in the Lester cut of Superman having his powers restored with no real explanation, the power-up scene was too good to leave out.
Ashworth6 4 years ago
I agree i liked that scene as well after I saw it and thought it should have been in the Lester cut of the movie.
bigbill1991 4 years ago
Come on I wanna actually see how he gets his Powers back..the convosation etc can someone upload it on here plz...If not then i want a detailed description...Thanx in advance..;)
GreekMike1 4 years ago
It's so good and well thought-out. You could watch it by itself, but you'd rob it of dramatic effect untill you saw all the Jor-El scenes leading up to it.
Donner had a very definite plan, one that I feel is echoed nicely in Smallville.
SeanOrange 4 years ago
Isn't there a way to watch the events leading up to it as well as the actual event itself....I mean here on youtube of course...If not then I wouldn't mind jus watching it by itself on here...
GreekMike1 4 years ago
I was thrilled watching Donners cut, the Jor-El scenes and the new opening, but I found the film lacking in length compared to the original and the experience seemed to be over too quickly. I prefer the superkiss ending and think they should have used it in this cut, purely cos I dont beleive Donner would have used the time reversing trick twice had he been allowed to finish superman 2 originally
akamortis 4 years ago
...and it allows for continuity to follow into Superman Returns - Lois would have been made pregnant in superman 2 before he lost his powers, therefore resulting in the half kryptonian child we see in Brian Singers film. I missed some of lesters scenes - The arm wrestling, superman & lois in fortress of solitude before they eat dinner, "Crude Noise maker", and I would have prefered to leave those in if only to pad the length out a bit.
akamortis 4 years ago
...One other thing i noticed is they tried to replace as much of the music score as they could with John Williams, which is fine, but in two scenes they seem to have looped some of the scores where they didnt have enough music, to make the full music peice and it sounded tacky in places, especially the niagara falls scene when superman rescues the boy from falling.
akamortis 4 years ago
I have to agree with a lot of that. While he didn't do much of the restoration work himself, Donner was pretty adamant about using as little of Lester's footage as possible, which is a shame since it seemed more like a personal decision than any that was good for the integrity of the film.
SeanOrange 4 years ago
This contribution to You Tube is what You Tube is all about - well done Sir!!!
mujpie 4 years ago
Ya...what was up with that saran wrap S?
PrussianSunsets 4 years ago
Perhaps they wanted to encourage moms to keep their leftovers "Super"-fresh...?
SeanOrange 4 years ago
Whatever their motive was, it worked. Lets see a show of hands, who wants the saran wrap S in the next movie? .....okay....we got about 3.....I'll call Singer.
PrussianSunsets 4 years ago
Hahahaha. We also need to include finger-levitation!
SeanOrange 4 years ago
Lets also get Otis in there too. I mean, why wouldn't Luthor want his idiot henchman back? Also Non...lets get Non back.
PrussianSunsets 4 years ago
I dont get it.I saw the richard donner cut and thought it sucked but are there altered versions of Superman one and two wih additional scenes or something?
vmrgrsergr 4 years ago
There is an extended cut of Superman I (now on DVD). Any extended cuts of Superman II were supplemented with footage seen in the Richard Donner cut -- footage that could not have been included in the theatrical release and still allow Lester to keep director credit.
SeanOrange 4 years ago
And where can this version be found?
vmrgrsergr 4 years ago
Just about anywhere DVDs are sold!
SeanOrange 3 years ago
Yeah, in the original we don't actually see how Superman gets his powers back...One minute we see him walking in the snow, all battered (as he is a mortal)..and the next he just arrives outside the Daily planet and says "Would you care to step outside" to Zod, like nothing happened..Even after his mum sayd there is no going back Lol...I'm assuming he got his powers back via that Green crystal that Lois left on the floor earlier but that's just an assumption....
GreekMike1 4 years ago
If you guys had watched the special features on the new and previously released DVDs, you would know the truth. Donner did everything he had to and more. The producers were at fault. If you don't believe me, watch Superman 3 & Supergirl.
blonde180246 4 years ago
Oh god... Supergirl.
I loved that movie as a kid. I still respect it (or rather it's intent) now, but after watching the special features and seeing director Jeannot Szwarc shirtless in his Jabba-the-Hut-like glory while he directed so many scenes, I can only conclude that the man was a lecherous weirdo. He fit right in with the Salkinds!
SeanOrange 4 years ago
I'am glad Lester took over Superman 2. Donners was fukd up.
Roborav 4 years ago
asshole, so you think the first film was a fuck up?
ThatsGoodTellivision 3 years ago
The Donner Cut beats the Lester Cuts hands down, shame he didnt get to complete it and go on to make 3 & 4. Donner's a Legend!
Cashmerefilms 4 years ago
Donner's cut took it self too seriously and and tried to be funny but failed i think. Lester's was to the point and classy. 'General would you care to step outside'
Roborav 4 years ago 2
Please don't tell me that the new Superman II DVD coming have aditional CGI effects.
jerryaltman 4 years ago
Not exactly. They took great care to replicate the kinds of effects available in the late '70s. They did use some digitial effects to do so, but they didn't create any CGI models or anything -- all of the effects elements were already filmed and separately stored in their own film reels. All they had to do was put it together! ;)
SeanOrange 4 years ago
The new Phantom Zone destruction by nuclar explosion seens to have a few digital look. The blue gas, explosion remain, it pass inside looks digital image to my eyes. Have the edition the approval of Richard Donner?
jerryaltman 4 years ago
Yes it does. He didn't do any of the editing himself, but he was involved in the process. He has some interviews about it on the disc.
SeanOrange 4 years ago
HAHA I have that same tromaville high school sticker from the Nuke 'Em High Box!
tnfsgag 5 years ago
WOW!! Iv'e never thought of that, that's unbelievable!!:O
egi152003 5 years ago
leave films be, all the 2nd one needed was more fight scenes, the romantic side got a bit boring but eventually led to beinga major part in the film.
lambern 5 years ago
awesome overview
fernandogonzales 5 years ago
Are there CGI villains in the Donner Cut? Please Mr Thau do it.
marlonbrand076 5 years ago
They used only existing film elements. All of the special effects and compositing used were made to appear as they would have in 1980.
SeanOrange 5 years ago
Excellent overview!
thejollibengali 5 years ago
Nice job SeanOrange. Donner's version even restored 25 years later is so superior to Lester's it's not even funny. Speaking of "not even funny", you did such an excellent job on this, I would love to see you show the awful Lester humor that is no longer in the Donner version, as well as do more of a back-to-back comparison of Donner and Lester. Like the Brando footage vs. the York footage, or like Donner's Lois's tearful "There he goes kid, up, up and away" vs. Lester's "See ya!"
larryvgs 5 years ago
Also when he wants to become Superman again I just find it more dramatic when he starts screaming calling for his mother knowing and he finds that kryptonite looking crystal , really it didnt need a full explanation of how to get his powers back, it was just cool that way.
There was really nothing wrong with the Paris scenes. And the end is equally awful, turning back time is as bad as super kiss.
mp44assault 5 years ago
If superman 2 DC ends with him turning time, then Lois and Clark never hit it, so there is no perfect continuity for this and Superman returs, wich sucked by the way.
Also in lester version he becomes human then does it, in this one he first nails Lois then becomes human , not much sense there.
mp44assault 5 years ago
but its not supposed to be an EXACT sequel. remember, SR is a LOOSE SEQUEL to superman and superman II.
Darthlongi 5 years ago
I heard that Donners cut is way better than Lesters version
81man530 5 years ago
nice work orange, thanks for the info mate, pity thouse production fucks replaced doner. who the hell made superman 3, they should be shot!
daneoman1000 5 years ago
Lester the guy who took over Superman II, made Superman III.
SeanOrange 5 years ago
Just the plastic "S" scene alone in Lester's version makes it inferior. I haven't seen Donner's version just yet, but I've been waiting to see his version for years. I'd go and watch it, but I'm supposedly getting it as a Christmas gift :\
ERIC524892 5 years ago
We've been waiting 26 years, what's a few more weeks? ;)
SeanOrange 5 years ago
The Richard Donner cut was so much better then the Lester version.
AgentCross420 5 years ago
There is no big deal about it. It's crap. Just watch the original version. That's the only one anyone will remember when this version's hysteria has died down.
spoonskiller 5 years ago
You wanker! Lester's version in camp shite, Donner's version is the ONLY version now!
Kihotay 5 years ago
what version do you like better Ilike this Donner cut better new superman. I Like they explain how he got his powers back blows a hole in Sup 4 where he get cured from "AIDS Like" disease. The thing I have to say about this version is where it shows clark going back to the diner to beat up the bully. I wish they would have either left that out or have re-done it to where clark rescues or saves the bully, kind of chicken SH!$ of Clark to open up a can of whoop butt once he gets his powers back!
bandito974 5 years ago
Yeah, it makes less sense in this version because he never actually got back up. Originally it was kind of super-dickish because he's Superman and the guy didn't stand a chance, but in the new one he's just being mean for what the guy thinks is no reason.
SeanOrange 5 years ago
The Donner Cut is not better than the Lester version. It is too choppy and incomplete and has less emotion to it.
dbreiden83080 5 years ago
These things are true. However, it is important to keep in mind that this cut was pieced together almost 30 years after principal production had completed on Donner's version -- which was not complete -- and that the holes were filled in with another director's work. What's more important is to get an idea of the kind of movie Donner would have made. We unfortunately will never get to see that film, but I'm convinced from this presentation that it would have been a better one.
SeanOrange 5 years ago
I think people's expectations for the Donner cut were too high. They thought they were getting a seamless new version of Superman 2 and in reality they got the best attempt they could give us at what Superman 2 would have looked like had Donner got to finish it.
dbreiden83080 4 years ago
Great, just amazing to have the vision of donner on superman II
dukedmg 5 years ago
is that ray romano?
romulus219 5 years ago
lol
enriquegemini 5 years ago
OMG I want my hands on those Richard Donner Cut DVD now the opening credits looks really cool. I'm asking for the set for Christmas.
blackmoviefan 5 years ago
Yeah -- they completely redid the opening credits since they go over the early bits before the credits now, and also to reinstate Donner as the director.
SeanOrange 5 years ago
You rule, Orange. This is something I would do if I made time to have my own review show. Haha. Awesome.
enriquegemini 5 years ago
Pretty cool, dude. :) I've been a Supes nut my whole life (I'm 30), just watched TRDC the other day when it arrived at my house (ordered early).
I agree that it's very choppy, which is kind of a shame, and Donner could've let a couple Lester scenes in for improvement in quality. But... overall, a much, much better movie. Loved it!
Siper2 5 years ago
Thanks! Yeah, in the featurette, Thau said that Donner didn't even really want to deal with any of the Lester footage. If he had, he might have made some changes. But still, I'm glad that we have at least this much.
SeanOrange 5 years ago
Did he really say "wth did he just kiss her and she lost her memory?" ZOMG that idiot did not read the comics. He did that in the comics, its the kiss of forgetfullness. Wow, see this is why i hate everyone who critics Superman movies today...they are all retards
UmbrellaCorp666 5 years ago
Hahaha, no, I said that. When did he do that in the comics? I've been reading them for the last 20 years. If it was pre-Crisis, it doesn't count!
SeanOrange 5 years ago
Well, actually... Superman: The Movie was 1978, and Superman II was 1980. The Crisis was 1986, so.... ;)
Technically the only post-Crisis Superman movie was Superman IV. Uhhmm.... yeah but we know THAT doesn't count. Even Chris Reeve hated talking about it.
Siper2 5 years ago
Owned this movies were older than the crisis.
mp44assault 5 years ago
Thanks orange!
maurus01 5 years ago
My pleasure! I've been waiting for this to come out for so long, it'd be remiss of me NOT to do up something about it!
SeanOrange 5 years ago