We had spent $400,000,000 on development. Avro still wanted $3,750,000/plane. We got 66 CF-101s for 1/4 the cost of the Arrows development. The 101s were more manouverable, climbed faster, had farther range, and even carrying weapons, were almost as fast. The Arrow would have been shredded in a real fight. The CF-101 could turn on a dime. So Diefenbaker saved us millions of dollars and got us a better safer plane for our pilots. And for this we are still mad at him. I just don't get it.
At the risk of attracting a lot of FLAK from others, absolutely spot on! Hey; the Arrow's planned engines (never installed) weren't proven, the weapons pack was a good idea, but it wasn't even at prototype stage-no advanced avionics, no ejection seat,a primitive canopy.The addl work was prohibitively costly. No, Diefenbaker did well to cut our losses. RCAF aircrew were was pleased to get the 101. Recognize the Arrow was unaffordable-hey; we got schools and health care instead-so be happy!
@walkertexasranger33 Cheaper how so? much of the parts in that were in that plane were American such as the Radar, weapons system, etc. 2nd the US had planes that could the same job as the arrow and in some cases better and were lower cost. Such as the 106 which was cheaper and filled more roles. Of course there was the f-4 which came out around the same time and vastly superior.
Was the Arrow a terrible plane? no, but I am glad we scraped it.
@walkertexasranger33 No, not even close. Arrow could take down Soviet bombers with ease, assuming they did not have escorts as otherwise the Arrow pilots would have been screwed. The Arrow had the turning radius of a small country and could only go vertical in ideal conditions, hence little fuel and no weapons.
The 106 could take down the bombers, fight any Soviet escorts, and get out quickly . The Arrow would have been obliterated by Soviet Migs
@ShayisWY what i meant was... you agree the arrow wouldve been a big waste of money and resources to produce.. i was asking if its the same thing going on right now with canada and other countries buying and developing the f35.. specifically canada though because they want to buy many with an already some what limited airforce
@walkertexasranger33 Ultimatley it is hard to know until we get the thing operational. However many players are involved in the development, including Canada and some of these players are responsible for developing the best fighters in the world. People have suggested Canada look to Russia as their fighters are cheaper and indeed they are. However Russia has had some serious reliability issues with their fighters, particulary with their engines.
@walkertexasranger33 Some of their modern fighter enignes have to be replaced in 500 hours and if they adopted Canadian safety protocols, it would be much sooner. The Cf-18 by comparison can go much longer without replacing engines, despite the fact the engines are older. We would have saved money intially by buying Russian fighters, but given the more frequent servicing, the cost would quicly disipate.
@walkertexasranger33 The Avro arrow is no where close to the f-35, but we are dealing with aircraft from different generations so to be fair to Arrow it is not a fair comparison.
@ShayisWY I always love the debates that people have when comparing diffrent technologys. Well that modle T is a peice of crap compared to the new corvette I don't see what the big deal was about that thing. Duhhhh!
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Screw Diefenbaker and all of those bullshitters on Parliament hill who to this day can't figure out which country they're in. I was in Ottawa last week and sat in on question period and guess what? Yelling like a bunch of elementary school kids. Interesting fact: Harper was the only person there who wasn't freakin out. Not that he is any better.
And Dief the Chief was such a stubborn bugger that he didn't want anything to do with the current Canadian Flag and wanted to be burried in the original Red Ensin flag. He was probably the most Anti-Canada Canadian that ever existed, let alone run for PM.
@madcapromanian: Considering the Red Ensign was Dief's Canadian flag for 70 of his 83 years, as well as the flag he served under in WWI, why on earth would he want to be buried in the maple leaf?
We had spent $400,000,000 on development. Avro still wanted $3,750,000/plane. We got 66 CF-101s for 1/4 the cost of the Arrows development. The 101s were more manouverable, climbed faster, had farther range, and even carrying weapons, were almost as fast. The Arrow would have been shredded in a real fight. The CF-101 could turn on a dime. So Diefenbaker saved us millions of dollars and got us a better safer plane for our pilots. And for this we are still mad at him. I just don't get it.
banjer4u 2 years ago
At the risk of attracting a lot of FLAK from others, absolutely spot on! Hey; the Arrow's planned engines (never installed) weren't proven, the weapons pack was a good idea, but it wasn't even at prototype stage-no advanced avionics, no ejection seat,a primitive canopy.The addl work was prohibitively costly. No, Diefenbaker did well to cut our losses. RCAF aircrew were was pleased to get the 101. Recognize the Arrow was unaffordable-hey; we got schools and health care instead-so be happy!
jimmyinablizzard1 2 years ago
Comment removed
walkertexasranger33 1 year ago
@walkertexasranger33 Cheaper how so? much of the parts in that were in that plane were American such as the Radar, weapons system, etc. 2nd the US had planes that could the same job as the arrow and in some cases better and were lower cost. Such as the 106 which was cheaper and filled more roles. Of course there was the f-4 which came out around the same time and vastly superior.
Was the Arrow a terrible plane? no, but I am glad we scraped it.
ShayisWY 1 year ago
@ShayisWY so is it comparable to the f35?
walkertexasranger33 1 year ago
@walkertexasranger33 No, not even close. Arrow could take down Soviet bombers with ease, assuming they did not have escorts as otherwise the Arrow pilots would have been screwed. The Arrow had the turning radius of a small country and could only go vertical in ideal conditions, hence little fuel and no weapons.
The 106 could take down the bombers, fight any Soviet escorts, and get out quickly . The Arrow would have been obliterated by Soviet Migs
ShayisWY 1 year ago
@ShayisWY what i meant was... you agree the arrow wouldve been a big waste of money and resources to produce.. i was asking if its the same thing going on right now with canada and other countries buying and developing the f35.. specifically canada though because they want to buy many with an already some what limited airforce
walkertexasranger33 1 year ago
@walkertexasranger33 Ultimatley it is hard to know until we get the thing operational. However many players are involved in the development, including Canada and some of these players are responsible for developing the best fighters in the world. People have suggested Canada look to Russia as their fighters are cheaper and indeed they are. However Russia has had some serious reliability issues with their fighters, particulary with their engines.
ShayisWY 1 year ago
@walkertexasranger33 Some of their modern fighter enignes have to be replaced in 500 hours and if they adopted Canadian safety protocols, it would be much sooner. The Cf-18 by comparison can go much longer without replacing engines, despite the fact the engines are older. We would have saved money intially by buying Russian fighters, but given the more frequent servicing, the cost would quicly disipate.
ShayisWY 1 year ago
@walkertexasranger33 The Avro arrow is no where close to the f-35, but we are dealing with aircraft from different generations so to be fair to Arrow it is not a fair comparison.
ShayisWY 1 year ago
@ShayisWY I always love the debates that people have when comparing diffrent technologys. Well that modle T is a peice of crap compared to the new corvette I don't see what the big deal was about that thing. Duhhhh!
BigDestructor 11 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Screw Diefenbaker and all of those bullshitters on Parliament hill who to this day can't figure out which country they're in. I was in Ottawa last week and sat in on question period and guess what? Yelling like a bunch of elementary school kids. Interesting fact: Harper was the only person there who wasn't freakin out. Not that he is any better.
wasteofspace1234 3 years ago
And Dief the Chief was such a stubborn bugger that he didn't want anything to do with the current Canadian Flag and wanted to be burried in the original Red Ensin flag. He was probably the most Anti-Canada Canadian that ever existed, let alone run for PM.
madcapromanian 3 years ago
@madcapromanian: Considering the Red Ensign was Dief's Canadian flag for 70 of his 83 years, as well as the flag he served under in WWI, why on earth would he want to be buried in the maple leaf?
raynus1 1 year ago
this is cool. we canadians sure do invent alot of good things
GeFORCE95 4 years ago 2
Yeah but we have morrons who gouvern us... John Diefenbaker is the worst thing that appened to canada
Ontopofitall 4 years ago
yes, but arrow isn;t one of them
Beliserius1 2 years ago