So basically God is an insane, evil tyrant? I believe in God and accept the teachings of Christ but the Old Testament is mostly just utter madness. If a being orders someone to commit mass genocide including children I would consider that being the Devil. In fact the Old Testament "God" was probably the Devil fooling Israel and thats why Jesus came to show the true message of God's kingdom. The Bible is not Gods literal word. If you believe that you're a moron.
Only problem with all of this is how are we supposed to know when someone really heard from God or is just imagining things? Many people claim they heard from God before they did something like mass killings, drowning children, ect Hitler is a good example.
Hitler wrote in his book, Mein Kampf: "I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work." Interesting, yet we call him a murder? He could have been just like Joshua from the Bible killing everything in Jericho. What if someone one day says they heard from God to run planes into buildings and kill everyone bc they heard from God.
Also if the blood of a man is punshied by the shedding of the killers blood then why was Moses not killed bc of his murderer? Did he have special privileges with God? I thought the bible says God shows no partiality with anyone.
@IggyJunkie "We all deserve to die yesterday" Moses is no different than any other man. I think the better question is why didn't God kill Moses when he committed all the other sins before he killed the Egyptian he is a child of Adam as we all are! I believe God used that incident where Moses killed the egyptian to drive him out of Egypt to use him in God's plan for redeeming Israel. If Moses didn't kill the Egyptian he wouldn't of been thrown out, Israel would still be slaves of Egypt today.
The basis of all of your protestant positions are an ideology of "guilty by association." An ideology that would never hold up in court...Do you know why? Because it's not fair...it's not right. But the religious conditioning that you people have undergone discourages simple critical thought to something so basic.
I'll save you the trouble of reading the book. The answer is still an emphatic yes, god is a monster.
Those who can justify the atrocious treatment of their fellow human beings as "god" does in the OT can justify any evil act. They have at least partially sacrificed their humanity and part of what makes them a human being.
Look at Piper above as a great example of this dehumanization at work.
@SeedsOfHatred If you aren't a Christian now you never were a Christian at any previous time. You may have thought that you were a Christian, but once a person is born into new life through faith in Christ he or she is His child forever. Jesus said that no man can take His children out of His hand, and "no man" includes the children themselves. If any so-called "Christian" want's out of Christ's family he/she was never actually reborn into His family to begin with.
@minralb You know, I actually knew you would say that. You people ALWAYS do. Christians are so self-righteous that they want to believe that any former Christian was never a Christian to begin with. No matter how much I believed, no matter how much I truly loved God, no matter how devout I was, you people feel that because I turned away, it was never genuine.
It's arrogance to the highest degree. Not quite what one would expect from a humble Christian. Grow up.
@SeedsOfHatred If you were ever truly born into new life in Christ you would know from God's infallible word that even Jesus himself couldn't have put you out of His family. That's why I can confidently say that you were never truly born again by accepting Jesus as your Lord (aka slavemaster) and believing IN YOUR HEART that God the Father raised Him from death to life. Your denial of biblical truth is meaningless because God's Word is totally true in the original manuscripts and yours isn't.
To understand this you have to do your homework in the Old Testament. There were Nephilim in the land to stop the Hebrews from entering into the promised land. Who are these Nephilim? Research it. I know..I'm the stupid one..I'm the crazy one is what you'll say. I say, The ultimate barrier to truth is the assumption that you already have it. Condemnation before Investigation...is what you (atheists) are guilty of. Are you doing your homework? -------Piper you should know this, I am dissapointed.
It sounds like you're on the right track; kind of. But you still got some things wrong. The God of the OT certainly deserved to be treated with scorn and contempt; we as a species need to rebel against that "god." and kill him But you point out something important; research. The main problem with the Nephilim was allegedly mating with humans, right? That's a key thing many people miss. Mating with humans means that these Nephilim (cont'd)
@ManKnowYourself but what about "I am the same yesterday, today and forevermore"? That kind of defeats the idea of having to kill the God of the OT. I don't think that's the case at all. It's apparent that the Israelites didn't "see" clearly. their perceptions were obscured. paul talks about that veil and how the veil was torn on crucifixion day. if anything it's the OT thinking we need to get rid of, or rather the old man should die. but that's already taken place as well at calvary.
Your problem is that you're relying on the Bible. Stop doing that. It's an evil book written as means of control and manipulation by the evil god written with his slant on events. Look to the past prior to the Bible where the real origins of the story; ancient Bablyon and Sumeria. You'll find out the ugly truth about who your god is and what he is all about it.
@ManKnowYourself oh, i see where you're coming from now. i tend to agree with you regarding the facts. but you and i interpret them differently. read the comments i made below. it's a lot more complicated then the simplistic way you've put it. i've kept an open mind and skeptics answers have never been satisfying to me. i like to think for myself. cheers.
could not have been spirit beings. In order to transmit DNA, they need to be physical, corporeal beings. Most people simply gloss over this and don't take this into account. When this realization sinks in, that the gods and angels were physical bodied beings from the start, then the entire Christianity/Judaism/Islam mythology falls apart and the beginnings of truth about who the gods and angels really are/were can finally start to emerge.
@gextvedde i've heard that joshua story since i was a kid, and even as a kid i was rational enough to ask why it was okay for all those people to be killed. no one gave me a straight answer. i'm 27 now and i'm still a christian. i've discovered something crucial i feel piper doesn't understand and it's a bit complicated to explain but i'll give it a shot. God's original intent was to deal with humanity one on one but for reasons, such as our free will, we've always evaded God.
@gextvedde we evaded him in eden and long after the Garden and even well into when moses delivered israel from egypt. but as God had forewarned to adam and eve, that if they'd eat from the tree of knowledge they would surely die. but being that adam and eve had a will of their own they wanted to "know" good and evil. so then God sent them out of the garden so they would know what good and evil actually is.
@gextvedde but instead of good and evil i will use trial and error because that's essentially what humanity is going through... trial and error. in the days of moses, israel were still fluttered with superstition and still had customs similar to the pagans of that time. while God still wanted to deal with them personally they tell moses that they were afraid of God because "thunder and lightning" followed after him when he spoke but they promised to moses that the Abraham's God would b their God
@gextvedde so God says, (sarcastically mind you), "ok they say they want me as their God? fine, give them this moses... "Thou shalt have no other gods before me.." and proceeded to give him the rest of the 10 commandments. but while this is happening as you know how the story goes, the israelites are waiting for too long for moses to come down mt. sinai so they begin to worry and as their old superstition creeps in they 'MUST HAVE A GOD' so they create a golden calf to be their God.
@gextvedde it's ironic that the very first commandment God gave them was the first commandment they disobeyed. but God didn't give them the commandments so they could live by them.. in fact, God gave it to them because he was illustrating to humanity what he had told adam and eve long before that this "trial and error" bit, we would truly fail (die). so hence God says, "I am the LORD your God thou shalt have no other gods before me."
@gextvedde it's a riddle he's given us, he's basically saying the same thing that he's been saying since the days of adam and eve that we can't live without him. but the people of israel obviously never understood this and if you read back in those books they wanted to have a king, so they appointed saul, even while God says that they would suffer if they would do this. but they didn't listen. so guess what happened?
@gextvedde that's when chaos happened and that's what happened with the story of joshua. all the chaos that erupted was because of the very choices of the israelites and the trial and error that they would confront. God warned them that this would happen but they were too stubborn. in fact, the prophet books go more in detail of how it all went down and illustrates in more detail their stubbornness and how many times God wanted to deal with them.
@gextvedde that's why jesus said, ""O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing." i could go on and on in more detail and illustrate how poetic the biblical message actually is but i feel i might bore you. cheers.
@UrukEngineer When you can save yourself from death with your own right arm THEN you can make comments about this kind of stuff. You don't answer any questions, Piper does.
@superdewd No mate. When someone in authority, like Piper, makes up crap like this to justify murdering women and children then I don't just have a RIGHT I have a DUTY to hold him to account along with anyone else who believes this rubbish.
Stop and think for one minute before you fire anything back at me. The outrageous claims Piper makes puts him and anyone who agrees with him on a par with the Teleban.
@UrukEngineer you seem so smart when you try troll christians i feel sorry for you mate you have so much hate and anger in you why the hate? anyway I'm just here to tell you the correct spelling is taliban
@Taurion4467 I don't hate. I am however, disgusted that we tolerate a religion whose followers claim that it is right to slaughter women and children. Why don't you feel the same way? Islam or christianity it doesn't matter, if it's amoral and offensive then we have a duty to call a halt to it.
Oh, and thanks for the correcting me...so it's "taliban" without a capital T, right?
@UrukEngineer christianity doesn't tell me to slaughter women or children what book you reading? yea you can add the capital T if you respect them so much but i don't find the need to, nor do i find the need to put a capital C in christianity, so it seems to me you don't know to much about the old testament and why those people were killed but i wont get in to it now
@Taurion4467 "christianity doesn't tell me to slaughter women or children what book you reading?" Piper explains that in this video.
"...it seems to me you don't know to much about the old testament and why those people were killed..." please enlighten me. I would love to hear why you think this war crime is acceptable.
You're right. It's right, good and just to believe that God condomed and approved of slaughtering babies and pregnant women all the while speaking against abortion. Some people are just so insane and hypocritical. Not to mention, rape, slavery, terrorism, invasion, etc. The OT writers were not even regenerated and born again, they could not discern the things of God for they were foolishness to them because they are spiritually discerned. You Sir, know nothing about God...
So, if I were to kill a man today, then God willed that to happen. I'm not a murderer, I was merely God's instrument in the fulfillment of his master plan.
Hey it's Calvinism, the illegitimate child of nihilism, authoritarianism, and wishful-thinking. Even if God ordained you to do it you're still going to hell for it.
@1Anth3m Nope. Sorry. To rape and kill and then say "God made me do it" is seeking to justify your evil deeds. We are responsible for our actions. But God doesn't punish people. He has no desire and no need to do that. Sin carry its own punishment. You reap what you sow. You bring the consequences upon yourself...
@Cutie9326 Just to make things clear, I don't believe in god. Also, that seems rather hyprocritical if you agree the the man in the video. First, saying that everything is the will of god, then saying that we are responsible for our own actions. If it was god's will all along, then how can I be held responsible. And again, these are hypothetical questions, I don't believe in god.
The slaughter of the old testament is vindicated because jehovah had to establish a nation on earth so that his son could be born and revealed as the redeemer of mankind. It shows jow vicarious and temporal life here on earth is and how serious was Adams breach of God's command.
Then you should build shrines for the firstborn of Egypt and the women and children the Israelites slaughtered at your god's command. For it was not some immortal's spanking and 3-day nap that purchased the Kingdom, but rather the lasting blood of a multitude of mortal children. They gave no consent, and receive no thrones or worship. Yet you admit that without their blood Christ could do nothing. The great myth of your theology: that Christ was the sacrifice.
for a realy interesting answer regarding the killing of women and children, please watch "Chuck Missler - Acient Nephilim" . The seed of satan infected the human kind, creating a hibrid race wich every civilization records, and that satand-infected DNA had to be exterminated (behind his love for God, Noah was of pure blood). Please research more. GOD is LOVE and HE knows best what to do. Trust Him. Blessings.
If your god truly was love, then this video and Chuck Missler's "it's okay that God ordered kids killed cuz they were half-demons and God is like a good Hitler" video never would have been made. People don't choose how their ancestry. Even if someone did have a demon for an ancestor that doesn't mean they deserve to die. But what the heck, under your "moral code" of blind authoritarianism and thought-stopping cliches any atrocity can be justified.
@ShadowPa1adin What would you do if you meet little Hitler, and you knew that he will rise up and kill you and your entire family? 180movie(dot)com is a great example on how human logic works.
What does that have to do with my response to you? And how the heck can you tell if a kid is "little Hitler"? You have failed to answer my question and now toss in a red herring. Missler's "demon-dna" story is bunch of made up garbage that you apparently think makes for a good defense of your god's alleged actions, when it actually makes him look worse (ordering children and other civilians killed for the sake of "racial purity," like what Hilter did).
@ShadowPa1adin "when it actually makes him look worse (ordering children and other civilians killed for the sake of "racial purity," like what Hilter did)."
He didn't. That's what the religious system from the mosaic covenant to the modern church wants you to believe...
@ShadowPa1adin You dind'nt understand my argument.God's knows the future, just like we can predict weather (just an example), and He is at war with Evil.There are 2 kinds of seed on this earth. God's seed, and satan's seed. They are at war. You also are in one camp already, it's a matter of time till you realize it. Can't you see how complex this universe is? nevertheless this reality. New World Order is here, every detail fits the puzzle. He is coming. I will pray for you.
@ShadowPa1adin Ps. Your concept of God is very influenced by the decieved media. The Bible is so complex in reality, it takes time to understand it's deeper meaning and language. Research more about it, don't spend time only in the atheist camp. See for yourself.
1You see, objective means independant from conciousness, meaning independant from your god's conciousness. As your morality comes from your god than your morality isn't objective. You say there is a moral law. But moral law is a contradiction, the moral is the choosen not the imposed. As I said if it's outside of choice, it's outside of morality. Would you mind giving your reason to believe in a moral law giver? You are probably unable to do it without contradictions.
@Claudiual2lea Well if you can honesty say that this thing is based on reality, with evidence and using reason and logic, not faith to come to conclusions than I might be interested. (never heard about the hybrid stuff by the way). How can you see god is love when your definition is god is behind men's faculty to comprehend? How can you he IS something if your definition is that we cannot know what he IS?
@maximemeis111 for your answer, i will let Dr John Lennox aproach it from a different manor: please watch: " John Lennox-How can Jesus be both God and Human? ". There are different views of course. I respect yours and i-m not trying to convert you to something that myself searched for years but had to experience it to belive. Now, I see the World through the Word. Bless. (also for an interesting and simple logic, proofthatgodexists(dot)org )
2Why? Because faith and reason are opposit. Reason starts with the evidence of the senses and than use logic to comme to conclusions, logic being the faculty of non-contradictory identification. Faith says that you can dispose of the senses, logic,... you get it from god or revelations,... Therefore there's no reason to have faith. You ask what outside my own good defines my code of morality. Nothing. My code is defined by my nature and by my necessity of act in the face of alternatives.
3Unlike you, my morality has my happiness as my goal. Yours not. Yours is based on your god's will not on what's good for you. What ground do I have to say what's right and what's wrong? Well, my base is reality. Than what are values? Values is what one act to gain and keep. Virtue is the act by which one acts and keeps value. Therefore if man has made the choice to life, the good is everything proper to the life of a rationnal being. The evil is everything that destroys it.
@maximemeis111 Thanks for taking the time to offer a response, I've actually responded to your comments on my latest blog article, you can navigate there from my channel the article is called "Open letter to an Atheist"....I have enjoyed the conversation with you, God Bless
What does he say? He says that morality is imposed on you by god's whims. He says that if god says it's the good than it's the good. When god tells Abraham to kill his son it's the good and when he says "no I'm kidding", it's not the good any longer.
For christians, there is no reason to be moral as nothing in reality gives rise to moral. Morality must arise from reality, from the fact that man has free-will and that he must choose his values according to his nature to reach happiness.
You fail to recognise in this account the type and shadow of the messianic promise that God would kill his only son to redeem the fallen sons of man, I agree with you when you state that man will always act in accordance with his nature...unfortunately for the natural man this nature can only choose sin and rebellious hatred for God, ironically the very traits demonstrated by much of the atheistic diatribe on this page. May God grant you repentance and faith. God Bless.
@AReformedChristian Yes I fail to recognize the promises of your religion and I'm proud of it. I didn't say man will act according to its nature, I said he has to if he wants to live as a man and find happiness. Your beliefs hold that human are sinners by birth. What a contradiction! What is outside the province of choice is outside the province of morality. Your morality has no objectivity. Mine is based on reality and its purpose is to live as a man and find happiness.
If you’re a naturalist thats a rather odd position to claim Christians have no objectivity to their morality, to the contrary we not only have objectivity but also causality You see I have a reason for believing in morality that being that I believe that there is a moral law giver of whom I am accountable to for my actions, what possible reason could you have outside of your own fulfilment for ‘morality’, if that’s the case what grounds do you have to state that anything is wrong?
If you believe this than you are a willing slave. It turns my stomach to see people abject themselves in this way. If you think like a slave, you can justify genocide.
@rleeermy Did you not listen to the man? We DON'T kill people! Christians are supposed to love, give to the poor and needy, and to spread the word. If anyone should appear, saying they have "new" doctrine that God wants a Jihad-like war....TRUE christians would NOT accept it. That's why mormonism and Jehovah's witnesses are wrong.that's why islam is wrong. There will no longer be "new scripture" until Jesus returns to do the judging HIMSELF..
@ZomBradical Going further into that last statement:
We're all slaves...it just depends on what you slave towards. You can have an "illusion" of freedom...and follow along with the people who lump ALL people of faith in with the nuts; who in the end want our way of life out of the world.....or the ones who are told to love others (even those that hate you)? Point to the "racists" and "homophobes" all you want....they're not christians. It's that simple. Jesus loves the hated!
@ZomBradical Well he does torture most every person that's ever been born for an eternity so if he loves everybody so much than he's got a funny way of showing it.
He who loves and helps others because he is commanded to will hate and kill others when he is commanded too. What label he attaches to himself or master he serves does not matter. Believing your tribe (Real True Christians) possesses some immunity to the evil of seeking to evade morality through obedience only makes you yourself more vulnerable to it.
Judging from your comments you dont look like you know God intimately, that being said if God purposely did it it wouldn't be "right" with me, just because you are walking with God doesn't mean you cant disagree or be somewhat angry with what he does. Now he gives everyone grace and ultimately takes life accordingly, so ultimately it's up to him
Infanticide and genocide and torture are perhaps the most sadistic and cruel acts known to man. And yet, Piper is saying that when God does it, it's good and right. 1 John 4:8 says, "God is love". Should we conclude then that genocide and torture is an expression of His love?
So God's right to own us is more important than our right to live?
IMO it all comes down to the question of suffering: Why would a good and all powerful God allow such unspeakable suffering in this world? And to top it all off there's an eternity of torture for the majority of the population to look forward to after death.
If anyone can explain why this is a good plan I would be most grateful.
Might does not make right. Just because your holding the gun you may be able to make me say or do anything to save my life. But you will never be able to make me think your less than evil. Good thing this guy is getting this from a man made book that has been disproven thousands of times.
Think of it this way...if you're an atheist who has spent his life thumbing his nose at God and will spend the rest of your life doing the same...the most merciful thing God can do for you is to end your life NOW. Then you will suffer the JUST punishment of 30 years of wickedness (for example) rather than the just punishment of 60-70 years of wickedness. Maybe this is why so many of the loudest voices in atheism seem to due early deaths???
How is God more useful than electricity? Electricity doesn't justify you. Electricity doesn't give you a new future by removing the stains of your past. Electricity can be cut off by man. God's love can never be cut off because it's not dependent on anything but God. You must pay for electricity (if not you steal) you can never pay for God's love...making it free. Piper doesn't say he agrees with it nor wants to harm anyone. He states God's character and why He can.
Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[i] have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
John 6: 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
So it is God who decides who to draw to Jesus,men can't decide to believe unless God causes their NEW BIRTH.
"It's right for god to slaughter women and children any time he pleases." Wow, what a psychotic god this man worships. I'm with the late Hitchens when he said that he is glad that none of this is true, that there is not a shred of evidence that any of this is true.
God had men, women,children and animals killed it seems because there were Nephilim in those days just like before the flood.These were the giants that kept the children of Israel in the desert for 40 years and according to extra biblical sources,they also sinned against the animals,so who knows for sure?
I liked how John reminds us that God has established the government, and gives them the authority to justly take life from criminals. Capital punishment was something I always agreed with Biblically, but never really saw it quite like that until now.
So if god is so all powerful than why does he ask humans to do his dirty work Mr. piper? Why doesn't he strike them with lighting? Sounds more merciful to me then slitting babies throats!
@charronfamilyconnect you have a lot of assumptions concerning the nature of man. Mainly, you assume that man is innocent. If God decrees the death of someone through a secondary mean he's not doing anyone wrong. This is not an issue of power. Also, you are assuming that your ways are more merciful but you have no idea what mercy looks like. I hope you can get passed this issue and understand that it's not God who will seat under your judgement, but you under his. And He will do so rightly.
@charronfamilyconnect Slitting babies' throats would actually be an act of great mercy, if the doctrine of the salvation of infants and young children is true.
The O/T is filled with tribal warfare. It was brutal times.The people were brutal. The god in the O/T was a reflection of this brutality. An angry,wrathful, bloodthirsty tribal god was what is portrayed in the O/T.No christian teacher/scholar can explain this nature of a angry jealous god when reconciled with the N/T version of god.They have all failed to explain this mismatch I can only conclude that gods nature changes with man's nature, hence god is created in man's image not the other way
What happened to free will Mr. John fucking piper? Are you saying free will is cancelled by god at any moment? So I guess free will doesnt exist in gods eyes eh?
Fuck you John Piper you evil bastard! Killing children and women is okay? Fuck you piece of fucking shit. You deserve to die in hell for those comments asshole!!!
@blattdanielmain and free will?? It sounds more like man takes and gives and claims its gods will. God doesnt do anything brutal like man does and did. God is love and peace, not anger, jealousy &brutality. That is what I find in the O/T, total brutality which is man's nature, not gods. God of fear and brimstone, hell fire doesnt exist. Its an illusion created to make men bow to their leaders. Its total brainwashing. All you have to do is love and not kill & the world is better
@charronfamilyconnect Man,why all the filth?God owns the world and everything in it,so if He wanted people put to death He sure knows more than us.When Jesus comes back there will be more destruction and blood shed than anyone could ever imagine.He is not a baby or a suffering Messiah anymore,He's the KING of the universe and He'll prove it to His enemies too.
@CBALLEN Your version of god is of a tyrannical, blood thirsty, angry, wrathful, arrogant, unbending, destructive, evil god. I thought Jesus was about love, peace, and forgiveness? Why are you contradicting god's nature. ACTUALLY HERE IS A BETTER QUESTION: WHY DOES THE O/T GOD'S NATURE IN DIRECT CONTRADICTION WITH THE GOD OF THE NEW TESTAMENT? CAN YOU EXPLAIN THIS TO ME OR ARE YOU ANOTHER RELIGIOUS WHACKO LIKE WHAT i SEE EVERY DAY. YES JESUS LOVES ME, BUT HATES HIS ENEMIES. BULLSHIT!
@charronfamilyconnect You know,people that speak like you do online really don't have a relationship with God.The God of the OT is the same God,but Jesus came to fulfill what the OT had promised.God was the Lord over His people the Jews and they were told what to do by Him,were punished by Him and were used to punish other nations by Him.He told them that He was giving them a land and they were to possess it from those who were on it.God does all He desires.
@CBALLEN According to the Jews god gave them the land of others just like what you see today in Palestine/israel/Judah. If I wrote a book about my people I would surely be just as biased as the Jews.What about the God of the other tribes that they were conquering back in the day. Bottom line, the Tribes that yielded the most power also were viewed as having the more powerful tribal god. Its all perception. I am not a brainwashed bible thumper.I am truth seeker. Truth is Love, thats all
@charronfamilyconnect God owns everything,so nothing belongs to anyone,but Him.There are no other gods.You need a good brainwashing to remove the trash.God is truth,not love,love is love.
@CinderellaDragon Jesus is the way,the truth and the life,if you have no love of this truth,then you do not love the truth and if you do not love the truth,you hate the truth and if you hate the truth,you love lies.
@CinderellaDragon What I'm saying is,no person can be neutral about Jesus,you either love Him,as He is portrayed in the Bible or hate Him,there's no in between.Jesus said there is either those who are with Him or those who are against Him.Muslims hate the Jesus of the Bible so they create another who they call isa(Jesus).Many cults invent another Jesus and they do this because they actually hate the God of the Bible, so they invent one they like better,which is a lie.
@CBALLEN Cultures have been inventing gods forever, its nothing new. It has been going on way way before Jesus was ever thought of. Do some more research if you really want truth.I personally think Jesus as Described in the Gospel of James is a son of god just like all of us are.He was only made divine after the council of Nicea. So its the Romans that made him divine,& that he was the one and only. They did this to monopolize religion in their thirst for control Religion is bs. sorry
@charronfamilyconnect The thing is,again,no one chooses to believe in God.God has chosen who will believe.God has already elected a finite group of people to believe before time was made and when each person's time comes to believe He has ordained the means for it to happen.No one wants God,all people hate Him without excuse,so if He didn't save people for Himself all would go to Hell.
Lots of assertions (and idiotic ones at that). Show me any proof for what you are saying. Show me any proof that your religion and your holy book are correct. Charonfamilyconnect has owned you so far, all you have done is respond with bullshit domga. Got nothing else, do you?
@ManKnowYourself I can't make you believe,only God can,in fact,no one can believe until HE causes one to believe.Of course all who die in unbelief have the creation as proof against them,so they're still held guilty for their sin and unbelief.
I gather your a Calvinist, based on the absurdities you've muttered. You do realize this system of thought is the most immoral, illogical and repugnant for of religion and thought in all of Christianity, possibly all of religion, don't you?
ManKnowYourself Can the creator of the computer be physically found in the computer?You can find out who he is, what he's done,what he's said and why he did things,but never find him personally.The certain laws that apply to the computer didn't apply to it's creator,they are 2 entirely different existences.This is how God is,but on a much grander scale.God can even enter into His creation,He can control every moment it makes,He could have even made a world without sin,but that's not His plan.
ManKnowYourself God made man & the universe perfect but mutable.What He does ,He does to glorify Himself alone,even saving people is for His glory.God could never glorify man or another or He would be an idolater Himself.He has told us that many will deny Him as Creator and that they did know Him but refused to give Him glory,many of these will be deluded by Him to believe the lies about Creation and Himself in such away that they ARE UNABLE to believe otherwise.So even in your unbelief He wins.
He does stuff for his glory? So God has an insanely out of control, insatiable ego, is that what you're saying? What kind of insecure, petty being does all these things simply to feed his own ego.
The rest of your statement just reaffirms the moral wasteland of Calvinism, as well as the complete doublespeak and nonsense it is. What you mean is that you embrace this system because it means that even when you're wrong, you're still right (in your own mind, at least).
@ManKnowYourself Everyone who believes that we are saved by Grace through faith is of the elect,that's how we know we are saved by the blood of Christ.God never turns anyone away,but it's only the elect who will ever believe and want Christ, it's God who causes us to believe,it's not our idea..
@ManKnowYourself 1 Cor.2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
Romans 8:7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.Those in the flesh are natural unsaved people.
@ManKnowYourself Jesus said,John 6:44 No one can come to me(believe in) unless the Father who sent me draws him and I will raise him up at the last day.
@ManKnowYourself Paul speaking to the Philipian believers,Philipians 1:29 For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake,
@ManKnowYourself 1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1 Corinthians 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
Well, as a former Christian myself, one who is very learned and very well read and that is part of the reason I am no longer a Christian, there are many arguments I could throw out here. But let's start with this one. Who told you that the Bible is "God's Word" and why did you believe them?
@Man Because of the impossibility of the opposite,it cannot not be God's word and be what it is,66 books with over 40 authors all living in different places,at different times and telling the same story in harmony.Jesus said that we know who a believer is because he will remain and preserver,this means if you died while you thought you were a believer you would have heard,depart from me,I never knew(loved intimately) you.God chooses His own,so a natural man can only choose a false god or jesus.
Are you kidding me? First of all, the Bible probably really only had a handful of authors. It has been heavily edited many, many times. Do you have any idea how many books were left out of the Bible? It is chock full of contradictions. The Jesus myth is simply a retelling of the same virgin savior myth that has been repeated throughout history. Most of the original Old Testament content itself is recycled, re-hashed Sumerian, Akkadian, Egyptian and other cultural myths.
Actually, you need to immerse yourself in more things like evil Bible, the Atheist Experience, etc. It all exposes the crap that's right in front of your face but that you just can't see. Stop relying on Christian apologists who wouldn't know truth if it bit them in their fat fundamentalists asses and learn the truth about your religion, your god, and their origins.
@ManKnowYourself he,he,And what about your religion? The Magic of Darwinism,it's nothing but metaphysics rapped up in scientific jargon,it's been a fraud ever since the Hindus first proposed it.
@CBALLEN Do you ever find it odd that you are in the minority in your beliefs? Do you ever wonder that if, IF your god is the creator of everything and is all-powerful, that why would he let the MAJORITY of people disagree with you? Do you ever think about that?
@StickInMudd Not at all, narrow is the gate and few go in by it,the road to destruction is wide and most go that way.I expect everything to be the way it is.
@CBALLEN So you're okay with worshiping a god who is so inept that hundreds of millions of people go to hell simply because they never heard about your faith?
Did you know only 59% of americans believe in hell and the number is much, much smaller on a global scale? I'll ask again, how does it feel to be in the minority? You believe in a god that is only the god for a really small number of people. Can he not tell people of his glory?
@StickInMudd It's not ineptness at all,it's by design.Romans 9:22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?
You have yet to prove any evidence of any god, yet alone your own. Yet you pre-suppose all your arguments based on this. That is a logical fallacy called begging the question, or circular reasoning. You also pre-suppose that out of the many gods, yours is the correct one and out of the 30,000+ different denominations of your religion, yours is the right interpretation. Calvinists actually make up a very small minority of Christians and very few interpret the Bible (more)
@ManKnowYourself Why don't you show me your best evidence for decent Mr. Darwinian worshiper?Show us how much you know,since you tell us you know so much.Show us something that no paleontologist knows,or no biologist knows or Cosmologist knows,show us the iron clad proof that you believe you know and I'll let another atheist answer you in their OWN WORDS,complete with references.
So basically God is an insane, evil tyrant? I believe in God and accept the teachings of Christ but the Old Testament is mostly just utter madness. If a being orders someone to commit mass genocide including children I would consider that being the Devil. In fact the Old Testament "God" was probably the Devil fooling Israel and thats why Jesus came to show the true message of God's kingdom. The Bible is not Gods literal word. If you believe that you're a moron.
alexmonro83 6 hours ago
Only problem with all of this is how are we supposed to know when someone really heard from God or is just imagining things? Many people claim they heard from God before they did something like mass killings, drowning children, ect Hitler is a good example.
pivo187 1 week ago
Hitler wrote in his book, Mein Kampf: "I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work." Interesting, yet we call him a murder? He could have been just like Joshua from the Bible killing everything in Jericho. What if someone one day says they heard from God to run planes into buildings and kill everyone bc they heard from God.
pivo187 1 week ago
Also if the blood of a man is punshied by the shedding of the killers blood then why was Moses not killed bc of his murderer? Did he have special privileges with God? I thought the bible says God shows no partiality with anyone.
pivo187 1 week ago
@pivo187 4:58
IggyJunkie 1 week ago
@IggyJunkie "We all deserve to die yesterday" Moses is no different than any other man. I think the better question is why didn't God kill Moses when he committed all the other sins before he killed the Egyptian he is a child of Adam as we all are! I believe God used that incident where Moses killed the egyptian to drive him out of Egypt to use him in God's plan for redeeming Israel. If Moses didn't kill the Egyptian he wouldn't of been thrown out, Israel would still be slaves of Egypt today.
IggyJunkie 1 week ago
I love Piper, but this....I don't think his argument adds up.
aeromarc1 1 week ago
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awhitesoul2012 2 weeks ago
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The basis of all of your protestant positions are an ideology of "guilty by association." An ideology that would never hold up in court...Do you know why? Because it's not fair...it's not right. But the religious conditioning that you people have undergone discourages simple critical thought to something so basic.
agrowingtime 2 weeks ago
let's kill John Piper! Also those 400 brainwashed bastards who liked this video!
marcohorowitz8 2 weeks ago
@marcohorowitz8 Are you so intolerant ? Are you a Muslim or something ?
southwoodside 2 weeks ago
For anyone truly interested, I reccommend a book by Paul Copan entitled:
Is God a Moral Monster?
JesusMostHigh 2 weeks ago
@JesusMostHigh
I'll save you the trouble of reading the book. The answer is still an emphatic yes, god is a monster.
Those who can justify the atrocious treatment of their fellow human beings as "god" does in the OT can justify any evil act. They have at least partially sacrificed their humanity and part of what makes them a human being.
Look at Piper above as a great example of this dehumanization at work.
ManKnowYourself 2 weeks ago
@ManKnowYourself
Intellectual integrity 101: Read the book before attempting to critique it.
JesusMostHigh 2 weeks ago
@JesusMostHigh Most atheists have in fact read the Bible. Many of us were once Christians ourselves.
Then we woke up. That is precisely WHY we critique it.
SeedsOfHatred 1 week ago
@SeedsOfHatred If you aren't a Christian now you never were a Christian at any previous time. You may have thought that you were a Christian, but once a person is born into new life through faith in Christ he or she is His child forever. Jesus said that no man can take His children out of His hand, and "no man" includes the children themselves. If any so-called "Christian" want's out of Christ's family he/she was never actually reborn into His family to begin with.
minralb 1 week ago
@minralb You know, I actually knew you would say that. You people ALWAYS do. Christians are so self-righteous that they want to believe that any former Christian was never a Christian to begin with. No matter how much I believed, no matter how much I truly loved God, no matter how devout I was, you people feel that because I turned away, it was never genuine.
It's arrogance to the highest degree. Not quite what one would expect from a humble Christian. Grow up.
SeedsOfHatred 1 week ago
@SeedsOfHatred If you were ever truly born into new life in Christ you would know from God's infallible word that even Jesus himself couldn't have put you out of His family. That's why I can confidently say that you were never truly born again by accepting Jesus as your Lord (aka slavemaster) and believing IN YOUR HEART that God the Father raised Him from death to life. Your denial of biblical truth is meaningless because God's Word is totally true in the original manuscripts and yours isn't.
minralb 1 day ago
@SeedsOfHatred
I wasn't talking about the Bible. I was talking about a book by Paul Copan.
Funny, I was once upon a time an Atheist myself, until I woke up.
JesusMostHigh 1 week ago 4
@JesusMostHigh Odd. I've never heard of a grown adult begin writing letters to Santa before...
SeedsOfHatred 1 week ago
To understand this you have to do your homework in the Old Testament. There were Nephilim in the land to stop the Hebrews from entering into the promised land. Who are these Nephilim? Research it. I know..I'm the stupid one..I'm the crazy one is what you'll say. I say, The ultimate barrier to truth is the assumption that you already have it. Condemnation before Investigation...is what you (atheists) are guilty of. Are you doing your homework? -------Piper you should know this, I am dissapointed.
tophatjones8893 3 weeks ago
@tophatjones8893
It sounds like you're on the right track; kind of. But you still got some things wrong. The God of the OT certainly deserved to be treated with scorn and contempt; we as a species need to rebel against that "god." and kill him But you point out something important; research. The main problem with the Nephilim was allegedly mating with humans, right? That's a key thing many people miss. Mating with humans means that these Nephilim (cont'd)
ManKnowYourself 2 weeks ago
@ManKnowYourself but what about "I am the same yesterday, today and forevermore"? That kind of defeats the idea of having to kill the God of the OT. I don't think that's the case at all. It's apparent that the Israelites didn't "see" clearly. their perceptions were obscured. paul talks about that veil and how the veil was torn on crucifixion day. if anything it's the OT thinking we need to get rid of, or rather the old man should die. but that's already taken place as well at calvary.
migol1984 2 weeks ago
@migol1984
Your problem is that you're relying on the Bible. Stop doing that. It's an evil book written as means of control and manipulation by the evil god written with his slant on events. Look to the past prior to the Bible where the real origins of the story; ancient Bablyon and Sumeria. You'll find out the ugly truth about who your god is and what he is all about it.
ManKnowYourself 2 weeks ago
@ManKnowYourself oh, i see where you're coming from now. i tend to agree with you regarding the facts. but you and i interpret them differently. read the comments i made below. it's a lot more complicated then the simplistic way you've put it. i've kept an open mind and skeptics answers have never been satisfying to me. i like to think for myself. cheers.
migol1984 2 weeks ago
@tophatjones8893
could not have been spirit beings. In order to transmit DNA, they need to be physical, corporeal beings. Most people simply gloss over this and don't take this into account. When this realization sinks in, that the gods and angels were physical bodied beings from the start, then the entire Christianity/Judaism/Islam mythology falls apart and the beginnings of truth about who the gods and angels really are/were can finally start to emerge.
ManKnowYourself 2 weeks ago
Thanks John, that grotesque nonsense is why I'm not a Christian.
gextvedde 3 weeks ago
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@gextvedde "Thanks John, that grotesque nonsense is why I'm not a Christian."
Thumbs up from me
UrukEngineer 3 weeks ago 4
@gextvedde i've heard that joshua story since i was a kid, and even as a kid i was rational enough to ask why it was okay for all those people to be killed. no one gave me a straight answer. i'm 27 now and i'm still a christian. i've discovered something crucial i feel piper doesn't understand and it's a bit complicated to explain but i'll give it a shot. God's original intent was to deal with humanity one on one but for reasons, such as our free will, we've always evaded God.
migol1984 2 weeks ago
@gextvedde we evaded him in eden and long after the Garden and even well into when moses delivered israel from egypt. but as God had forewarned to adam and eve, that if they'd eat from the tree of knowledge they would surely die. but being that adam and eve had a will of their own they wanted to "know" good and evil. so then God sent them out of the garden so they would know what good and evil actually is.
migol1984 2 weeks ago
@gextvedde but instead of good and evil i will use trial and error because that's essentially what humanity is going through... trial and error. in the days of moses, israel were still fluttered with superstition and still had customs similar to the pagans of that time. while God still wanted to deal with them personally they tell moses that they were afraid of God because "thunder and lightning" followed after him when he spoke but they promised to moses that the Abraham's God would b their God
migol1984 2 weeks ago
@gextvedde so God says, (sarcastically mind you), "ok they say they want me as their God? fine, give them this moses... "Thou shalt have no other gods before me.." and proceeded to give him the rest of the 10 commandments. but while this is happening as you know how the story goes, the israelites are waiting for too long for moses to come down mt. sinai so they begin to worry and as their old superstition creeps in they 'MUST HAVE A GOD' so they create a golden calf to be their God.
migol1984 2 weeks ago
@gextvedde it's ironic that the very first commandment God gave them was the first commandment they disobeyed. but God didn't give them the commandments so they could live by them.. in fact, God gave it to them because he was illustrating to humanity what he had told adam and eve long before that this "trial and error" bit, we would truly fail (die). so hence God says, "I am the LORD your God thou shalt have no other gods before me."
migol1984 2 weeks ago
@gextvedde it's a riddle he's given us, he's basically saying the same thing that he's been saying since the days of adam and eve that we can't live without him. but the people of israel obviously never understood this and if you read back in those books they wanted to have a king, so they appointed saul, even while God says that they would suffer if they would do this. but they didn't listen. so guess what happened?
migol1984 2 weeks ago
@gextvedde that's when chaos happened and that's what happened with the story of joshua. all the chaos that erupted was because of the very choices of the israelites and the trial and error that they would confront. God warned them that this would happen but they were too stubborn. in fact, the prophet books go more in detail of how it all went down and illustrates in more detail their stubbornness and how many times God wanted to deal with them.
migol1984 2 weeks ago
@gextvedde that's why jesus said, ""O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing." i could go on and on in more detail and illustrate how poetic the biblical message actually is but i feel i might bore you. cheers.
migol1984 2 weeks ago
This video shows why christianity has no place in the modern world. SHAME ON YOU PIPER!
UrukEngineer 3 weeks ago
@UrukEngineer When you can save yourself from death with your own right arm THEN you can make comments about this kind of stuff. You don't answer any questions, Piper does.
superdewd 3 weeks ago
@superdewd No mate. When someone in authority, like Piper, makes up crap like this to justify murdering women and children then I don't just have a RIGHT I have a DUTY to hold him to account along with anyone else who believes this rubbish.
Stop and think for one minute before you fire anything back at me. The outrageous claims Piper makes puts him and anyone who agrees with him on a par with the Teleban.
UrukEngineer 3 weeks ago
@UrukEngineer you seem so smart when you try troll christians i feel sorry for you mate you have so much hate and anger in you why the hate? anyway I'm just here to tell you the correct spelling is taliban
Taurion4467 3 weeks ago
@Taurion4467 I don't hate. I am however, disgusted that we tolerate a religion whose followers claim that it is right to slaughter women and children. Why don't you feel the same way? Islam or christianity it doesn't matter, if it's amoral and offensive then we have a duty to call a halt to it.
Oh, and thanks for the correcting me...so it's "taliban" without a capital T, right?
UrukEngineer 3 weeks ago
@UrukEngineer christianity doesn't tell me to slaughter women or children what book you reading? yea you can add the capital T if you respect them so much but i don't find the need to, nor do i find the need to put a capital C in christianity, so it seems to me you don't know to much about the old testament and why those people were killed but i wont get in to it now
Taurion4467 3 weeks ago
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@Taurion4467 "christianity doesn't tell me to slaughter women or children what book you reading?" Piper explains that in this video.
"...it seems to me you don't know to much about the old testament and why those people were killed..." please enlighten me. I would love to hear why you think this war crime is acceptable.
UrukEngineer 3 weeks ago
FUCK LOOK AT THIS TOOLS VIDEOS!!! this makes me want to laugh actually. This is even more corropted then Harold Camping.
BarrelRollking 4 weeks ago
You're right. It's right, good and just to believe that God condomed and approved of slaughtering babies and pregnant women all the while speaking against abortion. Some people are just so insane and hypocritical. Not to mention, rape, slavery, terrorism, invasion, etc. The OT writers were not even regenerated and born again, they could not discern the things of God for they were foolishness to them because they are spiritually discerned. You Sir, know nothing about God...
Cutie9326 4 weeks ago
So, if I were to kill a man today, then God willed that to happen. I'm not a murderer, I was merely God's instrument in the fulfillment of his master plan.
1Anth3m 1 month ago
@1Anth3m
Hey it's Calvinism, the illegitimate child of nihilism, authoritarianism, and wishful-thinking. Even if God ordained you to do it you're still going to hell for it.
ShadowPa1adin 1 month ago
@ShadowPa1adin Well said...
Cutie9326 4 weeks ago
@1Anth3m Nope. Sorry. To rape and kill and then say "God made me do it" is seeking to justify your evil deeds. We are responsible for our actions. But God doesn't punish people. He has no desire and no need to do that. Sin carry its own punishment. You reap what you sow. You bring the consequences upon yourself...
Cutie9326 4 weeks ago
@Cutie9326 Just to make things clear, I don't believe in god. Also, that seems rather hyprocritical if you agree the the man in the video. First, saying that everything is the will of god, then saying that we are responsible for our own actions. If it was god's will all along, then how can I be held responsible. And again, these are hypothetical questions, I don't believe in god.
1Anth3m 3 weeks ago
The slaughter of the old testament is vindicated because jehovah had to establish a nation on earth so that his son could be born and revealed as the redeemer of mankind. It shows jow vicarious and temporal life here on earth is and how serious was Adams breach of God's command.
MrJcenter7 1 month ago
@MrJcenter7
Then you should build shrines for the firstborn of Egypt and the women and children the Israelites slaughtered at your god's command. For it was not some immortal's spanking and 3-day nap that purchased the Kingdom, but rather the lasting blood of a multitude of mortal children. They gave no consent, and receive no thrones or worship. Yet you admit that without their blood Christ could do nothing. The great myth of your theology: that Christ was the sacrifice.
ShadowPa1adin 1 month ago
for a realy interesting answer regarding the killing of women and children, please watch "Chuck Missler - Acient Nephilim" . The seed of satan infected the human kind, creating a hibrid race wich every civilization records, and that satand-infected DNA had to be exterminated (behind his love for God, Noah was of pure blood). Please research more. GOD is LOVE and HE knows best what to do. Trust Him. Blessings.
Claudiual2lea 1 month ago
@Claudiual2lea
If your god truly was love, then this video and Chuck Missler's "it's okay that God ordered kids killed cuz they were half-demons and God is like a good Hitler" video never would have been made. People don't choose how their ancestry. Even if someone did have a demon for an ancestor that doesn't mean they deserve to die. But what the heck, under your "moral code" of blind authoritarianism and thought-stopping cliches any atrocity can be justified.
ShadowPa1adin 1 month ago
@ShadowPa1adin What would you do if you meet little Hitler, and you knew that he will rise up and kill you and your entire family? 180movie(dot)com is a great example on how human logic works.
Claudiual2lea 1 month ago
@Claudiual2lea
What does that have to do with my response to you? And how the heck can you tell if a kid is "little Hitler"? You have failed to answer my question and now toss in a red herring. Missler's "demon-dna" story is bunch of made up garbage that you apparently think makes for a good defense of your god's alleged actions, when it actually makes him look worse (ordering children and other civilians killed for the sake of "racial purity," like what Hilter did).
ShadowPa1adin 1 month ago
@ShadowPa1adin "when it actually makes him look worse (ordering children and other civilians killed for the sake of "racial purity," like what Hilter did)."
He didn't. That's what the religious system from the mosaic covenant to the modern church wants you to believe...
Cutie9326 4 weeks ago
@ShadowPa1adin You dind'nt understand my argument.God's knows the future, just like we can predict weather (just an example), and He is at war with Evil.There are 2 kinds of seed on this earth. God's seed, and satan's seed. They are at war. You also are in one camp already, it's a matter of time till you realize it. Can't you see how complex this universe is? nevertheless this reality. New World Order is here, every detail fits the puzzle. He is coming. I will pray for you.
Claudiual2lea 4 weeks ago
@ShadowPa1adin Ps. Your concept of God is very influenced by the decieved media. The Bible is so complex in reality, it takes time to understand it's deeper meaning and language. Research more about it, don't spend time only in the atheist camp. See for yourself.
Claudiual2lea 4 weeks ago
@ShadowPa1adin I couldn't agree more. Also see, Colossians 1:16-20 and Philippians 2:10-11. Hit my channel.
Cutie9326 4 weeks ago
1You see, objective means independant from conciousness, meaning independant from your god's conciousness. As your morality comes from your god than your morality isn't objective. You say there is a moral law. But moral law is a contradiction, the moral is the choosen not the imposed. As I said if it's outside of choice, it's outside of morality. Would you mind giving your reason to believe in a moral law giver? You are probably unable to do it without contradictions.
maximemeis111 1 month ago
@maximemeis111 please watch " Chuck Missler - Acient Nephilim" if you want to understand better.
Claudiual2lea 1 month ago
@Claudiual2lea Well if you can honesty say that this thing is based on reality, with evidence and using reason and logic, not faith to come to conclusions than I might be interested. (never heard about the hybrid stuff by the way). How can you see god is love when your definition is god is behind men's faculty to comprehend? How can you he IS something if your definition is that we cannot know what he IS?
maximemeis111 1 month ago
@maximemeis111 for your answer, i will let Dr John Lennox aproach it from a different manor: please watch: " John Lennox-How can Jesus be both God and Human? ". There are different views of course. I respect yours and i-m not trying to convert you to something that myself searched for years but had to experience it to belive. Now, I see the World through the Word. Bless. (also for an interesting and simple logic, proofthatgodexists(dot)org )
Claudiual2lea 1 month ago in playlist Liked videos
2Why? Because faith and reason are opposit. Reason starts with the evidence of the senses and than use logic to comme to conclusions, logic being the faculty of non-contradictory identification. Faith says that you can dispose of the senses, logic,... you get it from god or revelations,... Therefore there's no reason to have faith. You ask what outside my own good defines my code of morality. Nothing. My code is defined by my nature and by my necessity of act in the face of alternatives.
maximemeis111 1 month ago
3Unlike you, my morality has my happiness as my goal. Yours not. Yours is based on your god's will not on what's good for you. What ground do I have to say what's right and what's wrong? Well, my base is reality. Than what are values? Values is what one act to gain and keep. Virtue is the act by which one acts and keeps value. Therefore if man has made the choice to life, the good is everything proper to the life of a rationnal being. The evil is everything that destroys it.
maximemeis111 1 month ago
@maximemeis111 Thanks for taking the time to offer a response, I've actually responded to your comments on my latest blog article, you can navigate there from my channel the article is called "Open letter to an Atheist"....I have enjoyed the conversation with you, God Bless
AReformedChristian 1 month ago
wow
7181481 1 month ago
What does he say? He says that morality is imposed on you by god's whims. He says that if god says it's the good than it's the good. When god tells Abraham to kill his son it's the good and when he says "no I'm kidding", it's not the good any longer.
For christians, there is no reason to be moral as nothing in reality gives rise to moral. Morality must arise from reality, from the fact that man has free-will and that he must choose his values according to his nature to reach happiness.
maximemeis111 1 month ago
You fail to recognise in this account the type and shadow of the messianic promise that God would kill his only son to redeem the fallen sons of man, I agree with you when you state that man will always act in accordance with his nature...unfortunately for the natural man this nature can only choose sin and rebellious hatred for God, ironically the very traits demonstrated by much of the atheistic diatribe on this page. May God grant you repentance and faith. God Bless.
AReformedChristian 1 month ago
@AReformedChristian Yes I fail to recognize the promises of your religion and I'm proud of it. I didn't say man will act according to its nature, I said he has to if he wants to live as a man and find happiness. Your beliefs hold that human are sinners by birth. What a contradiction! What is outside the province of choice is outside the province of morality. Your morality has no objectivity. Mine is based on reality and its purpose is to live as a man and find happiness.
maximemeis111 1 month ago
If you’re a naturalist thats a rather odd position to claim Christians have no objectivity to their morality, to the contrary we not only have objectivity but also causality You see I have a reason for believing in morality that being that I believe that there is a moral law giver of whom I am accountable to for my actions, what possible reason could you have outside of your own fulfilment for ‘morality’, if that’s the case what grounds do you have to state that anything is wrong?
AReformedChristian 1 month ago
@AReformedChristian Check out my answer, it took more than one comment to answer and explain.
maximemeis111 1 month ago
What an excellant and consistant God honouring answer...Thank you Pastor Piper
AReformedChristian 1 month ago
If you believe this than you are a willing slave. It turns my stomach to see people abject themselves in this way. If you think like a slave, you can justify genocide.
rleeermy 1 month ago
@rleeermy Did you not listen to the man? We DON'T kill people! Christians are supposed to love, give to the poor and needy, and to spread the word. If anyone should appear, saying they have "new" doctrine that God wants a Jihad-like war....TRUE christians would NOT accept it. That's why mormonism and Jehovah's witnesses are wrong.that's why islam is wrong. There will no longer be "new scripture" until Jesus returns to do the judging HIMSELF..
Slave yes; violent no. He is Master!
ZomBradical 1 month ago
@ZomBradical Going further into that last statement:
We're all slaves...it just depends on what you slave towards. You can have an "illusion" of freedom...and follow along with the people who lump ALL people of faith in with the nuts; who in the end want our way of life out of the world.....or the ones who are told to love others (even those that hate you)? Point to the "racists" and "homophobes" all you want....they're not christians. It's that simple. Jesus loves the hated!
ZomBradical 1 month ago
@ZomBradical Well he does torture most every person that's ever been born for an eternity so if he loves everybody so much than he's got a funny way of showing it.
rleeermy 1 month ago
@ZomBradical
So Martin Luther, founder of protestantism and the anti-semitic author of "On the Jews and their lies" wasn't a Christian?
And while we're at it, not TRUE scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.
ShadowPa1adin 1 month ago
@ZomBradical
He who loves and helps others because he is commanded to will hate and kill others when he is commanded too. What label he attaches to himself or master he serves does not matter. Believing your tribe (Real True Christians) possesses some immunity to the evil of seeking to evade morality through obedience only makes you yourself more vulnerable to it.
ShadowPa1adin 1 month ago
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Cutie9326 4 weeks ago
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@ShadowPa1adin "because he is commanded to will hate and kill others when he is commanded too."
"Love your enemies, do good to those that hate you and pray for those who persecutes you..."
There is no excuse for abusing, harming and killing others. You are commanded to love and forgive, not to kill and destroy...
Cutie9326 4 weeks ago
Def dont agree with his capital punishment views, Christ wouldnt want it that way
Tsaunders1307 1 month ago
@Tsaunders1307
And if he did want it that way, then what? Would it then be right?
ShadowPa1adin 1 month ago
@ShadowPa1adin
Judging from your comments you dont look like you know God intimately, that being said if God purposely did it it wouldn't be "right" with me, just because you are walking with God doesn't mean you cant disagree or be somewhat angry with what he does. Now he gives everyone grace and ultimately takes life accordingly, so ultimately it's up to him
Tsaunders1307 4 weeks ago
John Piper is the spitting image of Paleontologist Dr. Jack Horner, whose team discovered the soft tissue in the T-Rex femur.
Way to go Piper! On his free time he's out doing digs to defend Creation Theory.
RomansGalatians 1 month ago
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Infanticide and genocide and torture are perhaps the most sadistic and cruel acts known to man. And yet, Piper is saying that when God does it, it's good and right. 1 John 4:8 says, "God is love". Should we conclude then that genocide and torture is an expression of His love?
There's something wrong with this picture.
wlemusic 1 month ago
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wlemusic 1 month ago
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So God's right to own us is more important than our right to live?
IMO it all comes down to the question of suffering: Why would a good and all powerful God allow such unspeakable suffering in this world? And to top it all off there's an eternity of torture for the majority of the population to look forward to after death.
If anyone can explain why this is a good plan I would be most grateful.
Thanks.
wlemusic 1 month ago
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wlemusic 1 month ago
Might does not make right. Just because your holding the gun you may be able to make me say or do anything to save my life. But you will never be able to make me think your less than evil. Good thing this guy is getting this from a man made book that has been disproven thousands of times.
faceious2006 1 month ago
Disgusting
caseybv74 1 month ago
@caseybv74 Amen, (so to speak)
vicarious014 1 month ago
very good explanation, good teaching
labandus 1 month ago
Think of it this way...if you're an atheist who has spent his life thumbing his nose at God and will spend the rest of your life doing the same...the most merciful thing God can do for you is to end your life NOW. Then you will suffer the JUST punishment of 30 years of wickedness (for example) rather than the just punishment of 60-70 years of wickedness. Maybe this is why so many of the loudest voices in atheism seem to due early deaths???
crawhonda 1 month ago
How is God more useful than electricity? Electricity doesn't justify you. Electricity doesn't give you a new future by removing the stains of your past. Electricity can be cut off by man. God's love can never be cut off because it's not dependent on anything but God. You must pay for electricity (if not you steal) you can never pay for God's love...making it free. Piper doesn't say he agrees with it nor wants to harm anyone. He states God's character and why He can.
Sharksnak7 1 month ago
How does this guy know so much?
GB0318 1 month ago
so that means islam is absolutely gods word beleiving in oneness of god
who does not beleive in god is an enemy of god and will go hell christians are
paganist father son, spirit 3 gods what a joke all spirits and power come from god
god is not a man he does not die he is the creator not the creation christian worship creation
in beleiving a prophet to be god
singhaditya317 1 month ago
apparently can do anything but doesnt know that shape of earth is not flat
singhaditya317 1 month ago
Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[i] have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
God does it all,so many lie about who they are.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
John 6: 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
So it is God who decides who to draw to Jesus,men can't decide to believe unless God causes their NEW BIRTH.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
totally agree with Mr.Piper
partizan5 1 month ago
@partizan5
Then please do us all a favor and quarantine yourself off from the rest of decent society.
ManKnowYourself 1 month ago
@partizan5 Praise God for you Brother,don't let these atheist sons of the Devil bother you.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@CBALLEN Words of encouragement lifts people up! God Bless!!
partizan5 1 month ago
I'm glad I'm not religious, because I don't have to learn all this shit :D Which...I'm learning anyway of pure curiosity..
Kortcubain 1 month ago
"It's right for god to slaughter women and children any time he pleases." Wow, what a psychotic god this man worships. I'm with the late Hitchens when he said that he is glad that none of this is true, that there is not a shred of evidence that any of this is true.
StickInMudd 1 month ago
God had men, women,children and animals killed it seems because there were Nephilim in those days just like before the flood.These were the giants that kept the children of Israel in the desert for 40 years and according to extra biblical sources,they also sinned against the animals,so who knows for sure?
CBALLEN 2 months ago
what a load of crap lol..
InuShonen 2 months ago
I liked how John reminds us that God has established the government, and gives them the authority to justly take life from criminals. Capital punishment was something I always agreed with Biblically, but never really saw it quite like that until now.
dandude071 2 months ago
The question should be "Why did God order people to kill women and children?"
KayBeeEee1983 2 months ago
@KayBeeEee1983 John touches on that in 2:16
dandude071 2 months ago
So if god is so all powerful than why does he ask humans to do his dirty work Mr. piper? Why doesn't he strike them with lighting? Sounds more merciful to me then slitting babies throats!
charronfamilyconnect 2 months ago
@charronfamilyconnect you have a lot of assumptions concerning the nature of man. Mainly, you assume that man is innocent. If God decrees the death of someone through a secondary mean he's not doing anyone wrong. This is not an issue of power. Also, you are assuming that your ways are more merciful but you have no idea what mercy looks like. I hope you can get passed this issue and understand that it's not God who will seat under your judgement, but you under his. And He will do so rightly.
Sanctum85 2 months ago
@charronfamilyconnect Slitting babies' throats would actually be an act of great mercy, if the doctrine of the salvation of infants and young children is true.
Legomyegoorj 2 months ago
The O/T is filled with tribal warfare. It was brutal times.The people were brutal. The god in the O/T was a reflection of this brutality. An angry,wrathful, bloodthirsty tribal god was what is portrayed in the O/T.No christian teacher/scholar can explain this nature of a angry jealous god when reconciled with the N/T version of god.They have all failed to explain this mismatch I can only conclude that gods nature changes with man's nature, hence god is created in man's image not the other way
charronfamilyconnect 2 months ago
@charronfamilyconnect Try William Lane Craig, sir.
Legomyegoorj 2 months ago
What happened to free will Mr. John fucking piper? Are you saying free will is cancelled by god at any moment? So I guess free will doesnt exist in gods eyes eh?
charronfamilyconnect 2 months ago
Fuck you John Piper you evil bastard! Killing children and women is okay? Fuck you piece of fucking shit. You deserve to die in hell for those comments asshole!!!
charronfamilyconnect 2 months ago
@charronfamilyconnect Listen to what the man is saying. Try to understand. God gives and takes away. Blessed be His name, the name of the Lord!
blattdanielmain 2 months ago
@blattdanielmain and free will?? It sounds more like man takes and gives and claims its gods will. God doesnt do anything brutal like man does and did. God is love and peace, not anger, jealousy &brutality. That is what I find in the O/T, total brutality which is man's nature, not gods. God of fear and brimstone, hell fire doesnt exist. Its an illusion created to make men bow to their leaders. Its total brainwashing. All you have to do is love and not kill & the world is better
charronfamilyconnect 2 months ago
@charronfamilyconnect Man,why all the filth?God owns the world and everything in it,so if He wanted people put to death He sure knows more than us.When Jesus comes back there will be more destruction and blood shed than anyone could ever imagine.He is not a baby or a suffering Messiah anymore,He's the KING of the universe and He'll prove it to His enemies too.
CBALLEN 2 months ago
@CBALLEN Your version of god is of a tyrannical, blood thirsty, angry, wrathful, arrogant, unbending, destructive, evil god. I thought Jesus was about love, peace, and forgiveness? Why are you contradicting god's nature. ACTUALLY HERE IS A BETTER QUESTION: WHY DOES THE O/T GOD'S NATURE IN DIRECT CONTRADICTION WITH THE GOD OF THE NEW TESTAMENT? CAN YOU EXPLAIN THIS TO ME OR ARE YOU ANOTHER RELIGIOUS WHACKO LIKE WHAT i SEE EVERY DAY. YES JESUS LOVES ME, BUT HATES HIS ENEMIES. BULLSHIT!
charronfamilyconnect 2 months ago
@charronfamilyconnect You know,people that speak like you do online really don't have a relationship with God.The God of the OT is the same God,but Jesus came to fulfill what the OT had promised.God was the Lord over His people the Jews and they were told what to do by Him,were punished by Him and were used to punish other nations by Him.He told them that He was giving them a land and they were to possess it from those who were on it.God does all He desires.
CBALLEN 2 months ago
@CBALLEN According to the Jews god gave them the land of others just like what you see today in Palestine/israel/Judah. If I wrote a book about my people I would surely be just as biased as the Jews.What about the God of the other tribes that they were conquering back in the day. Bottom line, the Tribes that yielded the most power also were viewed as having the more powerful tribal god. Its all perception. I am not a brainwashed bible thumper.I am truth seeker. Truth is Love, thats all
charronfamilyconnect 2 months ago
@charronfamilyconnect God owns everything,so nothing belongs to anyone,but Him.There are no other gods.You need a good brainwashing to remove the trash.God is truth,not love,love is love.
CBALLEN 2 months ago
@CBALLEN According to the Bible, love became before truth, although it would of course be true to say that you can't have love without truth.
CinderellaDragon 2 months ago
@CinderellaDragon It's the love of the truth the really matters.
CBALLEN 2 months ago
@CinderellaDragon Jesus is the way,the truth and the life,if you have no love of this truth,then you do not love the truth and if you do not love the truth,you hate the truth and if you hate the truth,you love lies.
CBALLEN 2 months ago
@CBALLEN Is that is a general statement or an accusation that I love lies?
CinderellaDragon 2 months ago
@CinderellaDragon What I'm saying is,no person can be neutral about Jesus,you either love Him,as He is portrayed in the Bible or hate Him,there's no in between.Jesus said there is either those who are with Him or those who are against Him.Muslims hate the Jesus of the Bible so they create another who they call isa(Jesus).Many cults invent another Jesus and they do this because they actually hate the God of the Bible, so they invent one they like better,which is a lie.
CBALLEN 2 months ago
@CBALLEN Cultures have been inventing gods forever, its nothing new. It has been going on way way before Jesus was ever thought of. Do some more research if you really want truth.I personally think Jesus as Described in the Gospel of James is a son of god just like all of us are.He was only made divine after the council of Nicea. So its the Romans that made him divine,& that he was the one and only. They did this to monopolize religion in their thirst for control Religion is bs. sorry
charronfamilyconnect 2 months ago
@charronfamilyconnect The thing is,again,no one chooses to believe in God.God has chosen who will believe.God has already elected a finite group of people to believe before time was made and when each person's time comes to believe He has ordained the means for it to happen.No one wants God,all people hate Him without excuse,so if He didn't save people for Himself all would go to Hell.
CBALLEN 2 months ago
@CBALLEN
Lots of assertions (and idiotic ones at that). Show me any proof for what you are saying. Show me any proof that your religion and your holy book are correct. Charonfamilyconnect has owned you so far, all you have done is respond with bullshit domga. Got nothing else, do you?
ManKnowYourself 2 months ago
@ManKnowYourself I can't make you believe,only God can,in fact,no one can believe until HE causes one to believe.Of course all who die in unbelief have the creation as proof against them,so they're still held guilty for their sin and unbelief.
CBALLEN 2 months ago
@CBALLEN
I gather your a Calvinist, based on the absurdities you've muttered. You do realize this system of thought is the most immoral, illogical and repugnant for of religion and thought in all of Christianity, possibly all of religion, don't you?
ManKnowYourself 2 months ago
ManKnowYourself Can the creator of the computer be physically found in the computer?You can find out who he is, what he's done,what he's said and why he did things,but never find him personally.The certain laws that apply to the computer didn't apply to it's creator,they are 2 entirely different existences.This is how God is,but on a much grander scale.God can even enter into His creation,He can control every moment it makes,He could have even made a world without sin,but that's not His plan.
CBALLEN 2 months ago
@CBALLEN
Your entire paragraph is totally irrelevant to the topic at hand.
ManKnowYourself 2 months ago
ManKnowYourself God made man & the universe perfect but mutable.What He does ,He does to glorify Himself alone,even saving people is for His glory.God could never glorify man or another or He would be an idolater Himself.He has told us that many will deny Him as Creator and that they did know Him but refused to give Him glory,many of these will be deluded by Him to believe the lies about Creation and Himself in such away that they ARE UNABLE to believe otherwise.So even in your unbelief He wins.
CBALLEN 2 months ago
@CBALLEN
He does stuff for his glory? So God has an insanely out of control, insatiable ego, is that what you're saying? What kind of insecure, petty being does all these things simply to feed his own ego.
The rest of your statement just reaffirms the moral wasteland of Calvinism, as well as the complete doublespeak and nonsense it is. What you mean is that you embrace this system because it means that even when you're wrong, you're still right (in your own mind, at least).
ManKnowYourself 2 months ago
@CBALLEN
Being a Calvinist, you undoubtedly believe you are part of this precious few elect, don't you?
ManKnowYourself 2 months ago
@ManKnowYourself Everyone who believes that we are saved by Grace through faith is of the elect,that's how we know we are saved by the blood of Christ.God never turns anyone away,but it's only the elect who will ever believe and want Christ, it's God who causes us to believe,it's not our idea..
CBALLEN 2 months ago
@CBALLEN
So you can't believe and be saved unless god gives you that "gift" of "faith", is that what you're saying?
ManKnowYourself 1 month ago
@ManKnowYourself That's what scripture says.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@ManKnowYourself 1 Cor.2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
Romans 8:7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.Those in the flesh are natural unsaved people.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@ManKnowYourself Jesus said,John 6:44 No one can come to me(believe in) unless the Father who sent me draws him and I will raise him up at the last day.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@ManKnowYourself Paul speaking to the Philipian believers,Philipians 1:29 For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake,
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@ManKnowYourself 1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1 Corinthians 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
I hope this helps.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@CBALLEN Wait so your saying everyone who doesn't get this "gift" burns in hell.
SuperBspb 1 month ago
@SuperBspb No,I'm not saying that,God's word says it,I'm just relaying it,I'm the messenger.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@CBALLEN
Well, as a former Christian myself, one who is very learned and very well read and that is part of the reason I am no longer a Christian, there are many arguments I could throw out here. But let's start with this one. Who told you that the Bible is "God's Word" and why did you believe them?
ManKnowYourself 1 month ago
@Man Because of the impossibility of the opposite,it cannot not be God's word and be what it is,66 books with over 40 authors all living in different places,at different times and telling the same story in harmony.Jesus said that we know who a believer is because he will remain and preserver,this means if you died while you thought you were a believer you would have heard,depart from me,I never knew(loved intimately) you.God chooses His own,so a natural man can only choose a false god or jesus.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@CBALLEN
Are you kidding me? First of all, the Bible probably really only had a handful of authors. It has been heavily edited many, many times. Do you have any idea how many books were left out of the Bible? It is chock full of contradictions. The Jesus myth is simply a retelling of the same virgin savior myth that has been repeated throughout history. Most of the original Old Testament content itself is recycled, re-hashed Sumerian, Akkadian, Egyptian and other cultural myths.
ManKnowYourself 1 month ago
@ManKnowYourself You need to get off evil Bible Dot Com and check out some real Bible scholars like James White.Obviously you haven't yet.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@CBALLEN
Actually, you need to immerse yourself in more things like evil Bible, the Atheist Experience, etc. It all exposes the crap that's right in front of your face but that you just can't see. Stop relying on Christian apologists who wouldn't know truth if it bit them in their fat fundamentalists asses and learn the truth about your religion, your god, and their origins.
ManKnowYourself 1 month ago
@ManKnowYourself he,he,And what about your religion? The Magic of Darwinism,it's nothing but metaphysics rapped up in scientific jargon,it's been a fraud ever since the Hindus first proposed it.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@CBALLEN Do you ever find it odd that you are in the minority in your beliefs? Do you ever wonder that if, IF your god is the creator of everything and is all-powerful, that why would he let the MAJORITY of people disagree with you? Do you ever think about that?
StickInMudd 1 month ago
@StickInMudd Not at all, narrow is the gate and few go in by it,the road to destruction is wide and most go that way.I expect everything to be the way it is.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@CBALLEN So you're okay with worshiping a god who is so inept that hundreds of millions of people go to hell simply because they never heard about your faith?
Did you know only 59% of americans believe in hell and the number is much, much smaller on a global scale? I'll ask again, how does it feel to be in the minority? You believe in a god that is only the god for a really small number of people. Can he not tell people of his glory?
StickInMudd 1 month ago
@StickInMudd It's not ineptness at all,it's by design.Romans 9:22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?
CBALLEN 1 month ago
@CBALLEN
You have yet to prove any evidence of any god, yet alone your own. Yet you pre-suppose all your arguments based on this. That is a logical fallacy called begging the question, or circular reasoning. You also pre-suppose that out of the many gods, yours is the correct one and out of the 30,000+ different denominations of your religion, yours is the right interpretation. Calvinists actually make up a very small minority of Christians and very few interpret the Bible (more)
ManKnowYourself 1 month ago
@ManKnowYourself Why don't you show me your best evidence for decent Mr. Darwinian worshiper?Show us how much you know,since you tell us you know so much.Show us something that no paleontologist knows,or no biologist knows or Cosmologist knows,show us the iron clad proof that you believe you know and I'll let another atheist answer you in their OWN WORDS,complete with references.
CBALLEN 1 month ago