@dirtbagcatholics Your point of view, if I may paraphrase , is that most Christians believe that the Church exists to give honor and to serve God. But the Roman Catholic Church believes that God exists to give honor, glory and homage to The Roman Catholic Church. Am I right? Please elaborate by giving evidence and illustrations to back up your claims.
@rocky60191 It is the sum total of my experience being around the roman catholic organization. Both as an observer, and as a heavily involved member.
Know God, Love God, Serve God... I am expressing the long term observations of areasonable man for what I believe are the morally right reasons. At the hour of my death, I answer for my motives. Look at the world news. The catholic church is diseased.
@dirtbagcatholics What is the meaning of the word Church? Answer this. You claimed to be a man of wide experience of the Catholic Church, and a heavily involved non-Catholic? or ex-Catholic? Make yourself clear, please. Don't lurk around in the dark.
These two priests are trying to put up a cover for their deadly sins against the VOW OF OBEDIENCE and CHASTITY. Do you know it took only one sin for Adam and Eve to be cast out of Paradise? And it also took one sin for Lucifer to be cast out of Heaven to Hell? And that sin is the SIN OF DISOBEDIENCE. They blamed God but not themselves. So the easy way out is to Blame the Catholic Church except themselves. So like Luther said COVER THE DUNG WITH FLOWERS and you will be saved.
@rocky60191 Do you know it took only one sin for Adam and Eve to be cast out of Paradise? And it also took one sin for Lucifer to be cast out of Heaven to Hell? And that sin is the SIN OF DISOBEDIENCE>> This god of yours is worse than any tyrant on earth. Not even hitler or stalin tortured their victims ...for all eternity .!!
Baptism is not necessary because it's an OLD TESTAMENT law, not new. When Yahshua was baptized, it was in the New Testament. This was an error, and should have been in the Old Testament. The Old Testament ENDS THE BINDING AGREEMENT BETWEEN YAHWEH AND THE JEWS when Yahshua sacrificed himself on the cross.
Jewish priest had that ability because Jesus had not died on the cross yet. You change the word of God to fit your religion. Once the veil was torn that gave us all access to the Father. No more need for a priest since Jesus is the final sacrifice.
To my Catholic brothers and sisters. Let's pray that peace be with these two former priests......! Once our brothers, always be our brothers. We will always love and forgive......that way we glorify God and show the world we are the true followers of Jesus. AMEN.
I use to be a die hard catholic and participated in all of it's deceitful Religious practices, rituals and Idol worship. But Thank's to my Father in Heaven and His precious SON and Thru Power of His Holy SPIRIT, HE called me by name out of darkness and from the sleep I was in. I am now a true man of God, saved & born again. There is No other name that has been given unto man that he must be saved. Jesus never preaced religion, He came againts it and it's ungodly leaders.
@MrGerardo1970 A real die hard catholic who knows his faith will never leave the Catholic Church to be a "born again" christian, for the Fullness of Christianity is in the Catholic Church. All baptised Catholics are biblically "born again". So how come you left the Church to be born again...that does not make any sense, unless you know very little of your faith and the Catholic Book (the Bible). Many bright non-catholic christians have been returning home to the Catholic Church. Why left?
@For3nity All baptized Catholics are biblically "born again".?
My Friend, it is obvious that you have not been properly trained in the scriptures. Being baptized does not make you born again. There is nothing you or I can do to be filled by the spirit of God, for is the Grace of God thta gives us the right to be called children of God and the precious Blood of Jesus that was shed on the cross of Calvary.
@MrGerardo1970 John 3:3-7. Born again of water and of the spirit. John 3:32 Then Jesus baptized.
Roman 6:4.Therefore we are buried with him by BAPTISM into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
So biblically,we are born again when we walk in newness of life after we are buried into death thru BAPTISM.
That's why all baptized Catholic are biblically born again: be dead to sin and live for God only
@For3nity Matthew 3:11 I am baptizing you with water as a token of repentance, but the one who is coming after me is stronger than I am, and I am not worthy to carry his sandals. It is he who will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Baptism is done as an outward commitment in obedience just as Jesus did. We must make a conscious choice to be baptized for Jesus. Not into a Religion. I see you had nothing to say about all those ungodly practices. You love your religion more than God.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, BAPTIZING them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
And we love God who was introduced to us by the so called "religion". Without religion we have no Bible, and consequently we have no "Christian" God. The Bible is Catholic Book
@MrGerardo1970 Baby baptism is biblical. Luke 18:15–16 tells us that "they were bringing even infants" to Jesus; and he himself related this to the kingdom of God: "Let the children come to me . . . for to such belongs the kingdom of God." For the promise is to you and to your children" (Acts 2:38–39). The apostolic Church baptized whole "households" (Acts 16:33; 1 Cor. 1:16),
@For3nity actually it doesnt say infants were baptized. it says that the family members were baptized after they were told and believed the gospel. BELIEVED is the key word there. remember to read the whole thing and not just take out what you want for your own purpose
@phatneazy It doesn't say either that infants weren't baptized. When Jesus was still a baby do you know what the Bible says His parents did to Him? Did they wait until He BELIEVE? When we have the baby baptized, we offer the baby to God to become His. Our "BELIEVE" do that for the baby. God wants all to be saved. We will not fulfill our responsibility as the parent if we did not offer the baby to become His.The baby has the right to be free from the original sin by baptism before it's too late.
@For3nity Baptism is not necessary because it's an OLD TESTAMENT law, not new. When Yahshua was baptized, it was in the New Testament. This was an error, and should have been in the Old Testament. The Old Testament ENDS THE BINDING AGREEMENT BETWEEN YAHWEH AND THE JEWS when Yahshua sacrificed himself on the cross.
@For3nity Exactly. This is from the NEW testament. What I am saying is, that doesn't matter. Baptism is a jewish law is it not? The man you call Jesus was baptized, however, the old testament laws are now void the second he died from crucifiction, yes? or no? Please correct if wrong and supply a passage I may be able to refer to.
1Peter 3:20 They had disobeyed God while Noah was building the boat, but God had been patient with them. Eight people went into that boat and were brought safely through the flood.
3:21 Those flood waters were like baptism that now saves you. But baptism is more than just washing your body. It means turning to God with a clear conscience, because Jesus Christ was raised from death.
@For3nity the water destroyed just as going into the water in baptism is a symbol of going into the grave to be dead with christ. noah believed god and it was credited to him as righteousness. the building of the boat was merely the obvious fruit he bore from his imputed righteousness in his belief
@lravenhill Agree. We were buried with Jesus in baptism. This to symbolize being "dead" to sin and will live for God only after the baptism. And when we live for God only we will surely bear good fruits ...the fruits of love. And how we display this fruits of love, it's by our good works, which is by serving and loving others as Christ has loved us. If we did not do that, and we sin instead without any effort to improve in holiness, it means actually we did not believe and did not love Christ.
@For3nity baptism does not cleanse you of your sin. we are saved by grace through faith. baptism is a commandment to all those who believe. if you read any portion of scripture that talks about baptism it is always stated that they believe first. children are brought to Jesus but it is never said that they were baptized. especially when those who were baptized prayed and confessed their sins during the process. something an infant cant do.
@phatneazy Roman 6:4.Therefore we are buried with him by BAPTISM into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
@For3nity Nowhere in the bible do the scriptures say to worship, pray or ask Mary to intercede for us. The Rosary, Crossing yourself, Holy water, Engraved images, Idol worship, praying to saints, or that Jesus ever called Peter a Pope much less Holy Father such as all Catholics do. There is only one Father and he is our Father who art in Heaven. And that's it. The Bible clearly says that God will not share His Glory with any one, and that he is a Jealous God. Explain these practices?
@MrGerardo1970 God shares His glory (John 17:22). The Rosary as mini-bible: I have explained it to you. Idol worship in NT is not related to engraved image but those things you love above God (Col 3:5, Eph 5:5). Even in OT God asked Moses to make serpent of brass (Number 21:8-9). Solomon made Cherubim (1 Kings 6:23-35), we are to pray for each other - the prayers of the righteous/Saints is very powerful (Phil 1:19, James 5:16), Mary intercession (John 2:1-11). God is jealous because He loves us
@For3nity Nowhere in the bible do the scriptures say to worship, pray or ask Mary to intercede for us. The Rosary, Crossing yourself, Holy water, Engraved images, Idol worship, praying to saints, or that Jesus ever called Peter a Pope much less Holy Father such as all Catholics do. There is only one Father and he is our Father who art in Heaven. And that's it. The Bible clearly says that God will not share His Glory with any one, and that he is a Jealous God.
@MrGerardo1970 In the bible Mary interceded for us in the wedding at Cana. The Rosary is mini-bible for we contemplate on the life, ministry, passion and resurrection of Christ. Crossing is mentioning the name of the Trinity, our God. Engraved images is only Art. Worshiping them as God is prohibited. Idol worship is when you idolize other things but God (money, power, greed, etc- Col 3:5, Eph 5:5). We are to pray to each other (praying to the alive Saints in heaven).God shares glory: John 17:22.
@MrGerardo1970 Jesus main teaching is love that never ends....that we love one another as He has loved us. And we show our love to all members of God big family....to the the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, the Mother (Mary), the Brothers and Sisters (the Saints in heaven), the brothers and sisters (the saints on earth)....thru prayers and thru their images. And Peter is to lead the Sheep of Jesus, which is now the Pope (John 21:15-17). The spiritual leader is called Father (1 Cor 4:14-15)
@For3nity jesus was the last PROPHET, PRIEST AND KING. Catholic priest cannot nor have the power to forgive sins. That is why Jesus died once on the cross as the Lamb of God, one sacrifice for all mankind. I will pray for you, that God will open your eyes and that God will open your eyes and that He wakes you up from your sleep. God Bless my Friend.
@MrGerardo1970 --Jesus gave all priest the power to forgives sins: "Whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven, and whose sins you do not forgive, they are not forgiven". -J. Christ
@MrGerardo1970 As answered by RepentAmerica454, the priests forgive sins "on-behalf" of Jesus. It's Jesus who forgives sins, thru the priests who have been given the authority by Jesus. And we Catholics believe it's Jesus there in the confession room, not the priests. We have to walk by faith, not by sight.
to all you misguided fundies who think you're some sort of "authority" of the Bible, Number ONE: the "assembly" you belong to isnt even "THE CHURCH" of the Bible, TWO, the BIble didnt drop outta the sky like a lot of you poor simpletons THINK it did, and 3, the POPE is a BISHOP and the successor to the apostle of Peter
All of the apostles, Paul, Luke, Mark, Philemon, Linus (2Tim4:21 & Peter's 1st successor), & Clement (Phil4:3 & Peter's 3rd successor) were all BISHOPS!! 1Tim3; Tit1:7; 1Pt2:25
you poor fundies think that the "assembly" you belong to is THE CHURCH of the Bible.. Think again. You're a bunch of poor misguided people who dont know any better. You're like the lot of people who watch wrestling
Praise God and His Mercy to see these two men come out of the Abyss of Catholicsim, I was also deliverd from this Den of Devils by hearing the Glorious Gospel which was never preached at St Marys Catholic Church
@JesusNonEnviromental You were not delivered from the Den of Devils. You were lured away from your True Home, who was the first and the only one preaching the True Gospel. For sure the Gospel was preached at St Marys Catholic Church. If you return back home to the Catholic Church (many ex-catholics have been returning home) make sure to worship Jesus' real presence in the Eucharist....never sleep!
@For3nity Sir, go into a foreign land a share the Gospel to a poor lost soul, I can hear a Catholic now sharing the Gospel, " You must come to the Catholic Church and you must be baptized, but first we must see your good works before we sprinkle you and then you must be confirmed by the Bishop and then you must come to the Mass on Sunday and eat and drink Jesus. These are things you must do, We must teach you to pray to Mary for intercession and teach you the Rosary so you can do penance."
@For3nity The Lost soul shall say, But I have read this bible and I believe what is written and I believe that Christ has died for my sins and that I have been baptized by Christ into his death and will rise with him in His Resurrection. The Catholic will say, Put that bible away you are not fit to interpret and it does not contain all that you must do to be saved. You must come under the Authority of the Pope and the church and we will see that you make it to purgatory.
@JesusNonEnviromental And Jesus will say to the poor lost soul when he failed to reach heaven because of following the heretical teaching outside His Holy Church: My true disciples have reminded you of my commandments in Luke 9:23: Deny yourself, take up your cross and follow Me. I also commanded you to do good work as not to be a GOAT whose place is in the everlasting fire (Mat 25:31-43). I commanded you also to eat My Body and Blood (John 6:53-54)...etc..etc. You disobeyed all my commandments.
@For3nity Not once during your vain utterances did you mentions anything about the Lord Jesus dying for your sins and by the shedding of blood your sins were covered. You didnt mention that it was the Father who drew your sinful soul to the Son and it was Jesus who changed you with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. No, you rambled on about Mother church when the church is said to the Bride and you mentioned good works as if it it were own hands that saved you. Jesus is not flesh and blood
@JesusNonEnviromental Let me make it simple for you. To be saved you are to believe in the Lord Jesus who has redeemed you with His Holy Body and Blood thru His sacrifice on the cross. That's the first step, for the "baby" believer. The next step as you grow up as a true believer, you are to leave sins and live only for God.....in other words be HOLY, as nothing impure may enter into the presence of God.
@For3nity You seem to be confused my brother, You were made holy which means you were sanctified or set apart for the Kingdom of God and that was not done by you or your repentance of sin. Repentance is also given to you by the working of the Holy Spirit because you are still in the flesh which is at enmity with God. You abhor Sin now only because Christ lives in you brother. You have no strength over sin, it was given you by the indwelling spirit even your love for God is given you
@JesusNonEnviromental How many people who believe in God and Jesus later on turned atheists? So believe in God and Jesus is necessary, but then we have to work hard to keep it and to improve in holiness. God do his part, but we have to do our part also. When you need food, you ask God and He will give you. But without any effort, you have no bread. The same with holiness. We have to always focus on God to improve in holiness. He will help us, but no holiness without any big effort from us.
@For3nity All of what you said is good and it is good that you live holy and keep from returning to your former ways, but I am trying to impress upon you is that the goodness in you is a fruit of the Spirit of God. You are flesh and have yet to be resurrected or your flesh glorified so you have no power over temptation or sin but the Holy Spirit in you has empowered you so all the Glory is to God and not yourself. You are a product of Gods handy work and He will sustain you if you are His.
@JesusNonEnviromental And I am trying to impress you too that we are to provoke one another unto love and to good works as the bible said in Hebrew 10:24, and that we shall endure unto the end TO BE SAVED, of course after we accepted Christ as our Savior (Mat 24:13); and that we have to strive to be perfect to imitate the perfect Father in heaven, of course by always holding His hand to help us (Mat 5:48), and that we are to always strive for holiness in the fear of God (2 Cor 7:1).
@For3nity You have spoken well, now let me say, He that has begun this good work in you will accomplished it until the end Phil 1:6 And we see in 2 Sam 22:33 that it is by Gods strength and power that our path is made straight. So, if our path is straight and we are pressing on to the high calling of our Lord Jesus then it is God who receives the Glory because is is He that is doing this work in Sinners
@JesusNonEnviromental Amen to Phil 1:6. He will help us to the end, because to believe in Christ is also to suffer for His sake (Phil 1:29); and we cannot make it without Him. As for 2 Sam 22:33, yes God makes our way perfect, but with one condition: unreserved trust in Him. Proverb 3:5-6: Trust in the LORD with all your heart, on your own intelligence do not rely; In all your ways be mindful of him, and he will make straight your paths. Finally, pray for me because I need it :-) (Phil 1:19)
@For3nity When we understand that all that is good about us is the fact that God has indwelt us with His Holy Spirit and we are new creatures in Christ. We are sustained by His Power and protected from the Evil One. Those who turn back to sin were never filled with Gods Spirit, they rejoiced but for a short while in the flesh but had no strength or power over Sin and were again defeated. If you have the Holy Spirit you can never be defeated and holy living is a product and evidence of that
@JesusNonEnviromental So who were those who turned back to sin? Weren't they baptized and born again? Then the Holy Spirit was supposed to be in them. But how come then they turned back to sin if the Holy Spirit will do everything for them once they accepted Christ as they Lord and Savior? Hebrew 6:1-6 said after accepting Christ and the Holy Spirit, we may still fall away and crucify Jesus and put Him to an open shame. So the Holy Spirit will only be always with us if we strive for holiness.
@JesusNonEnviromental "Love for God from God: Romans 5:5" Repentance from God: Roman 2:4."
Amen. Every good thing is from God, but our duty is to keep it by keep focusing on God. God give us the seed...our duty is to nurture with good spiritual food. Otherwise, we will end up atheists as I mentioned before. As for so many devout Catholics turned Saints, the secret is they strive to improve in holiness by focusing on God and Christ and keep taking the spiritual food:Jesus Body and Blood(Jn:6)
The context is the blood of Jesus washed away our sin...but then after that we have to keep it clean by always making great effort to leave sins, or be dead to sin, and improve in holiness (crucify our flesh, carry our cross and follow Him). Otherwise,as I have to say again we will end up atheists and become much more wicked than before we accepted Christ. If you need evidence, search the internet and see how many ex-christians turn atheists
As well when the apostles chose thoes to take the office of the bishop of rome they chose in both cases celabit men who remained so untill they where martryed, this has continued to be the practise even till today
@gtepp031387 "As well when the apostles chose thoes to take the office of the bishop of rome they chose in both cases celabit men who remained so untill they where martryed, this has continued to be the practise even till today"
Wrong! This is Pauls own words.
"This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one WIFE, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
@troysz The apsotles apponted Linus, who was not married to be bishop of Rome. They apponted Clement as well who was not married to be bishop of Rome, they both remained celibate. The latin rite from the very begging has had a practise of non married celibate Popes
@troysz Jesus told us that "there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it."....Well I don't see anyone else practising this but the Latin rite of the Catholic church, we merly provide an envierment of none temtation to those who wish to follow GOD as a eunch.
@troysz This Apostolic tradition "This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one WIFE, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;"
is not what your sect teaches. Your sect does not standfast in or hold to the traditions that the Apostles clearly taught the 1st century church.
@troysz "The book of Revelation was written 1st not spoken orally to the seven churches to whom it was addressed to, so was the book of Galatians. Every thing taught the 1st century church was not spoken 1st."
Care to provide evidence that Rev or Gal was in use in the 1st century, who it was written by, and the fact it was written before being spoken, please give me the source?
@troysz "there was no such tradition in the 1st century church. There was one church, one doctrine, one tradition"
Well the church has allways been Catholic,meaning universal,there have always been five rites in the church from the very begging.They are Rome,Alexandria,Antioch,Jerusalem, and Constantinople.They all have(or had up untill 1054) the same dogmas, yet they all had different culure and practises.All the apostles where called to sereve in different ways it is the same with the 5 seas
@gtepp031387 "Well the church has allways been Catholic,meaning universal"
Another lie from your father. The word "catholic" means universal when it is not capitalized. The word is an adjective as universal is. The word Catholic is a proper noun and does not mean universal it being a proper noun identifies not describes something specific. It is the name of your sect but not the name that Apostolic tradition gave to the church. It is tradition of man from satan.
@gtepp031387 "Nope the word Catholic is the name of the church"
Yes it is the name of the counterfeit church started by satan. The church the Apostles founded is clearly seen in scripture and it was not once called the Catholic church.
Mary's name is in scripture, so is Jesus', so is Israel's, so is Rome's, etc,. but there is no church name the Catholic church in scripture, It is of satan.
@troysz Nope ther church has allways been called catholic long before the scripture was cannonized "Wherever Jesus is there is the Catholic church" ~ St Ignaius 30-107 A.D....sry you have been decieved.
@troysz But I would have you to be without solicitude. He that is without a wife, is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please God. But he that is with a wife, is solicitous for the things of the world, how he may please his wife: and he is divided.
@gtepp031387 ""This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one WIFE, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to"
This is the Apostolic tradition for selecting bishops and it says specifially "office of a bishop" .
You have yet to post one writings from the Apostles that says if a man desires the office of bishop he must join the eastern rite if he marries.
@troysz "But I would have you to be without solicitude. He that is without a wife, is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please God. But he that is with a wife, is solicitous for the things of the world, how he may please his wife: and he is divided."
@troysz "This is the Apostolic tradition for selecting bishops and it says specifially "office of a bishop" ...
Actually the word office is not there in neither the original Greek nor in the cannonized Latin. The word Bishop is also not used, as Bishop is an english languide word, and english had not been invented, the Greek refferse rather to a minister.
@gtepp031387 Sorry son tell your father that lie won't stand here.
No Apostle named the church "Catholic", and only they would hav been authorized to.
In fact neither did Ignatius, he described the church as universal. The word he used was not a catholic because that is a late latin word that would not exist until the 1800s. He used thr Koine greek word "katholikos" which is not a name it only means universa.
@troysz Sry to disapoint but Ignatius could not have used the english alphabet the word he used was "καθολικός"...Stop shooting yourself in the foot. It really is funny to watch you dance around over samantics, but if your going to be so samanitical then expect the same from me.
@troysz Sry you can not apply 21st century english definitions to a 1st century greek word, you are rather funny...Please give me a greek first century source that says the word there means office...I will be waiting.
@gtepp031387 "Sry you can not apply 21st century english definitions to a 1st century greek word"
So then you are saying that "katholikos" could not mean "Catholic" and that Ignatius was not naming the church Catholic or even describing it as universal.
@troysz Nope the word in Greek means one thing that is universal, the word made in english was made for one perpose to be an enlish eqivalent of the Greek word....Sry but you speaking giberish.
@gtepp031387 So you use "minister" a 21st century word to describe "ἐπισκοπή" but then claim that I cannot use the universally accepted meaning in english?
See what tactics you in your sect must stoop to? If your sect was based on truth there would be no need to.
@troysz "See what tactics you in your sect must stoop to?"...Are you addressing this comment at yourself?... you are the one who started this samanitical nonsence over the word Catholic...remember???
@troysz And again "katholikos" was not the word Ignatius used, thoe it means the same thing, how could he have he did not use the english alphabet....Your funny
@troysz Well unless you want me to start talking Greek, which i doubt either of us could understand, then I will have to use a close facsimile in english, Or would you rather I use Greek and Latin and have you traslate it? ....sillyness...the word in Greek was closer in meanin to a minister then to a bishop yes...you are really into being samantical aren't you?
@troysz The only way for you too even have a chance against the truth of the one holy Catholic and apostolic church, is to play this endless samantical card isn't it?...I feel sry for you.."We believe in one holy Catholic and apostolic church" ~ 1st ecumentical council of the united Chistian church 325 A.D.
@troysz All english versions, even the catholic ones, are bordering on herisy. Greek and Latin do not work well with English. As both Greek and Latin are highly condensed languidges, and English is the most expansive languide to date.
Oh I know you said "bordering on heresy" and am amazed that someone would so arrogant to make such a statement about the Bible on their sect's (that they claim to be the true church), offical website.
Incredible....because you say so. Because you do not accept that "ἐπισκέπτομαι"..."episkopē" means what everyone else accepts.
@troysz No my friend if it was simply one word I would not really have a problem, but there are hundreds, thousands, of (not incorrect) but incomplete translation into english.Greek and Latin, usally have at least 3 different meanings per word, yes the text could mean bishop, it could mean priest, even as wide as minister, or servant..do you see my point? Lets take the word brother as translated in the KJV and other english text, the Greek word can mean brother yet it can mean up to relative to
@gtepp031387 "No my friend if it was simply one word"
It was only one word we were discussing when you said that it did not mean bishop or office of bishop. I understand that you have problems with many other words and how they were translated.
However I am focused on one becaue you have no grounds to say that "ἐπισκέπτομαι"..."episkopē" does not mean bishop/office of a bishop none whatsoever.
It simply proves that the RCC does not follow Apostolic instruction in this.
@troysz It can mean bishop yes, however it can not mean office, there is no word in latin nor in Greek for the word office in the scripture, if you want to say that bishops is an office, which i believe that is fine, but there is no need to add the word office in, since it is not there in the original Greek, nor the cannonized Latin.
Not once did I say it meant "office" However office of a bishop does not dectract from it's meaning of "bishop" because bishop is accept as an office (a position of authority) in scripture.
The bottom line is that the RCC appoints bishops and they do not do so according to clear criteria and tradition established by the Apostles Paul when instructing Tinothy in the very thing.
@troysz "The bottom line is that the RCC appoints bishops and they do not do so according to clear criteria and tradition established by the Apostles Paul when instructing Tinothy in the very thing."
Sry I see that they do follow the criteria, again the Catholic church has more married ordained ministers then any protestan denomination. Then only way for you to come to such a conclusion is for you to personal interprite the scripture differently then all those that came before the 1500s.
@gtepp031387 "Sry I see that they do follow the criteria"
That is a lie and you very well know it. Show me where Paul said that the church was to be split into two rites and that married bishops should be excluded from one of them.
You and I have both have a nose on our face....that does not mean that we are the same.
Simply having married bishops is not the same criteria as what the Apostle Paul established. Your sect has additional criteria not from the Apostles.
@troysz Your argument is not only silly but is self condemming let me show you...Did Jesus tell you to use a computer?..well then you have condemmed yourself.
The Church has allways had different rites(ways to serve GOD) even in the time of the apostles. Simon was a zealot, John was from the rite of the pharisees and scribes...would you condemm John for using a different calendar then the rest of the apostles? The council in Jerusalem distinguisted another rite, that was the Gentile rite.
@gtepp031387 "Your argument is not only silly but is self condemming let me show you...Did Jesus tell you to use a computer?..well then you have condemmed yourself"
Now you have really shown how foolish you are. I do not use a computer as a church tradition.
If you cannot distinguish between church tradition and things used in everyday life you are truly ignorant.
@troysz "If you cannot distinguish between church tradition and things used in everyday life you are truly ignorant."...Intresting since I told you a hundred time celabcy was a practise....seems your little argument just bit you on the arse didn't it?
@gtepp031387 "...would you condemm John for using a different calendar then the rest of the apostles?"
Another ignorant question.
The Apostle Paul did not tell us to use any certain calender.
He did say to standfast and hold to the traditions which were taught to the 1st century church.
None of those traditions included splitting the church into a latin and eastern rite and separating bishops according to whether the were single or not into either one of those rites.
@troysz So it is you who is the lier. Your interpritation of scripture, and you pressupisitions of what the church is, has lead you into great error. In Rev we see many rites, when john is talking about the different chures, though all are Catholic, they have different way of doing things, some have strayed some have not, each church inside of a rite even does things a little different, you could almost say they are a rite of there own, but they must hold to the dogma of the church.
@gtepp031387 "So it is you who is the lier. Your interpritation of scripture, and you pressupisitions of what the church is, has lead you into great error. In Rev we see many rites, when john is talking about the different chures, though all are Catholic, they have different way of doing things"
More lies from your father.
The churches in Rev were not different rites they were only different locations.
Again tell your father that your lies from him will not stand here.
@troysz There is no scripture that prohibts a group of the church from practising celibacy. The only way you can come up with such a conculsion is through presuppositional, Iso Jesus, personal interpriation of the scripture, as there is no scripture that prohibits a group of the church from practising celibacy. Not only is it not prohibited it is encouraged in the scripture as, "He that is without a wife, is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please God."
@gtepp031387 "There is no scripture that prohibts a group of the church from practising celibacy."
wrong again! Scripture tells us to standfast and hold to the traditions that were taught to the 1st century church.
The tradition left and practiced by the Apostles and the 1st century church was that a bishop or an Apostles could operate anywhere in the church whether single or married.
It was not that a married bishop could not operate in a certain part of the church.
@troysz The Latin rite has always practised celibacy, Peter left his wife and did not return to her, the only bishops that we are aware of that he appointed in the Latin west where celibate and remained so untill death, this was practised in the first century, by Linus, Anticletus, and Clement. It is a pracitse that stems from the apostles in the Latin west. Again there is no scripture that prohibits a group of the church from practising celibacy.
@gtepp031387 "Peter left his wife and did not return to her"
Again you are a liar.
The scripture has never said that Peter left his wife and never returned to her. Also Paul specifically taught that one married to a wife should not leave her.
Jesus does not require married leaders to leave their spouses.
@troysz Again there is one Latin rite, one place in the church thats has now probley nearly a hundred rites where those that wish to practice celibacy can go. Are you saying there should be no place where celibate priest priest can go where they can not be distracted by temptation?
Yes and it is of satan not God. It has traditions contrary and in addition to what the Apostles clearly taught. It does not allow bishop within it to marry and this is against clear Apostolic tradition.
@troysz" It has traditions contrary and in addition to what the Apostles clearly taught."
No it doesn't again the apostles taugh that there could be celibate bishops, they never taught that a group of the church could not practice celibacy, and again allthough rare a priest/bishop can be married in the Latin rite.
@gtepp031387 " apostles taugh that there could be celibate bishops"
They did not teach that bishpops should be divided into rites based on whether they married or not. A married bishop under the Apostles would have had no restriction as seen in your satanis sect.
No bishop under the Apostles would have been told that they cannot not be a bishop anywhere because they were married.
@troysz "No bishop under the Apostles would have been told that they cannot not be a bishop anywhere because they were married."...
Bishops where assigned to certain places, they where ristricted to there respected teritories, unless given a specific task by the head of the apostles, that is Peter, or GOD. So your ridiculus assumtions are futile.
@gtepp031387 "Bishops where assigned to certain places, they where ristricted to there respected teritories, unless given a specific task by the head of the apostles, that is Peter, or GOD. So your ridiculus assumtions are futile."
And regardles of the territory bishops were assigned to by Apostolic tradition they could be married unlike in your sect from satan.
No bishop under the Apostles were restricted from marrying based upon what territory they were assigned to.
@troysz Are you saying there should not be a place where celibate clergy can go, and be away from the temtations of lust?...That is as ridiculus as it sounds...sillyness
@gtepp031387 "Are you saying there should not be a place where celibate clergy can go, and be away from the temtations of lust?...That is as ridiculus as it sounds...sillyness"
Your deceptive tactics won't work on me son.
Your satanic contrary to Apostic instruction in scripture is saying that there are places where married bishops cannot go.
This is tradition of man and from satan and practiced by your satanic sect.
You are looking more and more foolish every time you post
@gtepp031387 "Are you saying there should not be a place where celibate clergy can go, and be away from the temtations of lust?..."
You are suggesting that there is only tempation and lust in the eastern riet. Now that is silly and foolish beyond measure.
If there were no temptation or lust where your sect's celibate bishops are then they would not be molesting young boys. So that argument is silly beyond measure.
@troysz Again the practice of Celibacy in the Latin rite has been in practice since it's establishment by Peter in 41-42 A.D. If the apostles had a problem with this practice then they surley would have said something, as John wathched this practiced for another 60 years, he obviously didn't have a problem with it.
"Again the practice of Celibacy in the Latin rite has been in practice since it's establishment by Peter in 41-42 A.D." You and your lies are of the devil. Peter established no such practice."
Every writter in the early church, that covered this topic confirms my word, it is a historical fact, so take your Iso Jesus personal interpritations somewhere else.
@troysz After peter was called he practised celibacy, he left EVERYTHING AND FOLLOWED JESUS.
Paul makes it clear that an apostle can be celibate, and it is preferred that they are
There is nothing higher then a bishop, even the Pope is just a bishop, he only holds a primacy.
There is in fact eveidence in every early writtter that the Latin rite practised celibacy in the time of the apostles, and the apostles never condmeed it, or said a word about it.\
@gtepp031387 "There is no scripture that prohibts a group of the church from practising celibacy."
1 Timothy 3:2 prohibits the church from mandating that bishops be celibate by saying that bishops can marry.
1 Corinthians 1-5 prohibits the church from mandating celibacy because it says that even one in the highest office of the church (Apostles) can choose whether to marry or not
Bishops in your latin rite should have the right to be married within the latin rite.
@troysz Again the church allows bishops to Marry, we have many married bishops and priest. Again there is no scripture that prohibits a group of the church from practising celibacy. Niether in 1 Timothy 3:2 nor in 1 Cor 1-5 does it state that a group of the church can not practice celibacy, only your Iso Jesus interpritation says that. Again there is no scripture that states that a group of the church can not practice celibacy.
@gtepp031387 " Again the church allows bishops to Marry,"
Again you are a liar.
Your sect does not allow bishops to marry in the latin rite. Your sect places a restriction on married bishops which is not according to Apostolic tradition.
@troysz "The scripture has never said that Peter left his wife and never returned to her."
"Peter answered him, "We have left everything to follow you!" Matthew 19:27...I guess wife doesn't incompass everything in your personal interpritation huh???
@troysz "Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?"...
Don't see Peter in this verse, in fact the Cephas in this verse semms to be seperated from the apostles and even the LORD's brethren, I don't think Paul liked the diciple Cephas very much.
@gtepp031387 "But Peter was married, he then choose to leave EVERYTHING as, Peter answered him, "We have left everything to follow you!"
Me and my wife can leave everything to follow Jesus that does not mean that we leave each other. That would be against what scripture clearly teaches.
A husband and wife are one in Christ. They are never required to leave the other.
Abraham left all to follow God and yet he was married.
@gtepp031387 "Again there is no scripture that prohibits a group of the church from practising celibacy. Niether in 1 Timothy 3:2 nor in 1 Cor 1-5 does it state that a group of the church can not practice celibacy"
Again you are a liar.
Both scripture make it clear that leaders are allowed to marry and operate in any part of the church not just in one or another based on their marital staus.
The scripture says that a bishop can marry your sect say they cannot marry in the latin rite.
What a completely odd irish nutjob
22grena 1 month ago
Most Christians believe that the Church exists, and is allowed to exist for the sole purpose of giving Honor and Servitude To God.
The roman catholic church (behind our backs) believes that God Exists to give honor, glory, and homage to the ROMAN CATHOLIC EMPIRE..
dirtbagcatholics 2 months ago
@dirtbagcatholics Your point of view, if I may paraphrase , is that most Christians believe that the Church exists to give honor and to serve God. But the Roman Catholic Church believes that God exists to give honor, glory and homage to The Roman Catholic Church. Am I right? Please elaborate by giving evidence and illustrations to back up your claims.
rocky60191 1 month ago
@rocky60191 It is the sum total of my experience being around the roman catholic organization. Both as an observer, and as a heavily involved member.
Know God, Love God, Serve God... I am expressing the long term observations of areasonable man for what I believe are the morally right reasons. At the hour of my death, I answer for my motives. Look at the world news. The catholic church is diseased.
dirtbagcatholics 4 weeks ago
@dirtbagcatholics What is the meaning of the word Church? Answer this. You claimed to be a man of wide experience of the Catholic Church, and a heavily involved non-Catholic? or ex-Catholic? Make yourself clear, please. Don't lurk around in the dark.
rocky60191 4 weeks ago
@dirtbagcatholics Well that is thr point of view of nutjob fundementalist protestants
22grena 1 month ago
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@22grena nutjob fundementalist protestants
Spoken like an arrogant over protective defender of ??????what??? Better hope it's worth the price of your redemption.
dirtbagcatholics 4 weeks ago
These two priests are trying to put up a cover for their deadly sins against the VOW OF OBEDIENCE and CHASTITY. Do you know it took only one sin for Adam and Eve to be cast out of Paradise? And it also took one sin for Lucifer to be cast out of Heaven to Hell? And that sin is the SIN OF DISOBEDIENCE. They blamed God but not themselves. So the easy way out is to Blame the Catholic Church except themselves. So like Luther said COVER THE DUNG WITH FLOWERS and you will be saved.
rocky60191 3 months ago
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@rocky60191 Do you know it took only one sin for Adam and Eve to be cast out of Paradise? And it also took one sin for Lucifer to be cast out of Heaven to Hell? And that sin is the SIN OF DISOBEDIENCE>> This god of yours is worse than any tyrant on earth. Not even hitler or stalin tortured their victims ...for all eternity .!!
ndzoko 2 months ago
How were the gospels and letters selected form so many>>>?
resultant64 3 months ago
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Baptism is not necessary because it's an OLD TESTAMENT law, not new. When Yahshua was baptized, it was in the New Testament. This was an error, and should have been in the Old Testament. The Old Testament ENDS THE BINDING AGREEMENT BETWEEN YAHWEH AND THE JEWS when Yahshua sacrificed himself on the cross.
TBird4490 4 months ago
You contacted me we spoke so now we are done. Go be in peace. Please dont contact me any further. God Bless. I will pray for.your salvation.
MrGerardo1970 4 months ago
You are Lost my friend. As your faith is so be it unto you.
MrGerardo1970 4 months ago
@MrGerardo1970 Who are you talking to Mr.Gerardo? If it's me, then it's OK. God (not you or me) knows who is LOST :-)
Peace be with you. God Bless you. AMEN.
For3nity 4 months ago
If Jesus din't preached it as a teaching don't do it.
MrGerardo1970 4 months ago
Jewish priest had that ability because Jesus had not died on the cross yet. You change the word of God to fit your religion. Once the veil was torn that gave us all access to the Father. No more need for a priest since Jesus is the final sacrifice.
MrGerardo1970 4 months ago
To my Catholic brothers and sisters. Let's pray that peace be with these two former priests......! Once our brothers, always be our brothers. We will always love and forgive......that way we glorify God and show the world we are the true followers of Jesus. AMEN.
For3nity 4 months ago
I use to be a die hard catholic and participated in all of it's deceitful Religious practices, rituals and Idol worship. But Thank's to my Father in Heaven and His precious SON and Thru Power of His Holy SPIRIT, HE called me by name out of darkness and from the sleep I was in. I am now a true man of God, saved & born again. There is No other name that has been given unto man that he must be saved. Jesus never preaced religion, He came againts it and it's ungodly leaders.
MrGerardo1970 4 months ago
@MrGerardo1970 A real die hard catholic who knows his faith will never leave the Catholic Church to be a "born again" christian, for the Fullness of Christianity is in the Catholic Church. All baptised Catholics are biblically "born again". So how come you left the Church to be born again...that does not make any sense, unless you know very little of your faith and the Catholic Book (the Bible). Many bright non-catholic christians have been returning home to the Catholic Church. Why left?
For3nity 4 months ago
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MrGerardo1970 4 months ago
@For3nity All baptized Catholics are biblically "born again".?
My Friend, it is obvious that you have not been properly trained in the scriptures. Being baptized does not make you born again. There is nothing you or I can do to be filled by the spirit of God, for is the Grace of God thta gives us the right to be called children of God and the precious Blood of Jesus that was shed on the cross of Calvary.
MrGerardo1970 4 months ago
@MrGerardo1970 John 3:3-7. Born again of water and of the spirit. John 3:32 Then Jesus baptized.
Roman 6:4.Therefore we are buried with him by BAPTISM into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
So biblically,we are born again when we walk in newness of life after we are buried into death thru BAPTISM.
That's why all baptized Catholic are biblically born again: be dead to sin and live for God only
For3nity 4 months ago
@For3nity Matthew 3:11 I am baptizing you with water as a token of repentance, but the one who is coming after me is stronger than I am, and I am not worthy to carry his sandals. It is he who will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Baptism is done as an outward commitment in obedience just as Jesus did. We must make a conscious choice to be baptized for Jesus. Not into a Religion. I see you had nothing to say about all those ungodly practices. You love your religion more than God.
MrGerardo1970 4 months ago
@MrGerardo1970 But this is what Jesus said (Mat 28:19-20):
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, BAPTIZING them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
And we love God who was introduced to us by the so called "religion". Without religion we have no Bible, and consequently we have no "Christian" God. The Bible is Catholic Book
For3nity 4 months ago
Being baptized as a baby does not count.
MrGerardo1970 4 months ago
@MrGerardo1970 Baby baptism is biblical. Luke 18:15–16 tells us that "they were bringing even infants" to Jesus; and he himself related this to the kingdom of God: "Let the children come to me . . . for to such belongs the kingdom of God." For the promise is to you and to your children" (Acts 2:38–39). The apostolic Church baptized whole "households" (Acts 16:33; 1 Cor. 1:16),
For3nity 4 months ago
@For3nity actually it doesnt say infants were baptized. it says that the family members were baptized after they were told and believed the gospel. BELIEVED is the key word there. remember to read the whole thing and not just take out what you want for your own purpose
phatneazy 4 months ago
@phatneazy It doesn't say either that infants weren't baptized. When Jesus was still a baby do you know what the Bible says His parents did to Him? Did they wait until He BELIEVE? When we have the baby baptized, we offer the baby to God to become His. Our "BELIEVE" do that for the baby. God wants all to be saved. We will not fulfill our responsibility as the parent if we did not offer the baby to become His.The baby has the right to be free from the original sin by baptism before it's too late.
For3nity 4 months ago
@For3nity Baptism is not necessary because it's an OLD TESTAMENT law, not new. When Yahshua was baptized, it was in the New Testament. This was an error, and should have been in the Old Testament. The Old Testament ENDS THE BINDING AGREEMENT BETWEEN YAHWEH AND THE JEWS when Yahshua sacrificed himself on the cross.
TBird4490 4 months ago
@TBird4490
Mat 28:19 Go to the people of all nations and make them my disciples. Baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,
28:20 and teach them to do everything I have told you. I will be with you always, even until the end of the world.
For3nity 4 months ago
@For3nity Exactly. This is from the NEW testament. What I am saying is, that doesn't matter. Baptism is a jewish law is it not? The man you call Jesus was baptized, however, the old testament laws are now void the second he died from crucifiction, yes? or no? Please correct if wrong and supply a passage I may be able to refer to.
TBird4490 4 months ago
@TBird4490
1Peter 3:20 They had disobeyed God while Noah was building the boat, but God had been patient with them. Eight people went into that boat and were brought safely through the flood.
3:21 Those flood waters were like baptism that now saves you. But baptism is more than just washing your body. It means turning to God with a clear conscience, because Jesus Christ was raised from death.
For3nity 4 months ago
@For3nity the water destroyed just as going into the water in baptism is a symbol of going into the grave to be dead with christ. noah believed god and it was credited to him as righteousness. the building of the boat was merely the obvious fruit he bore from his imputed righteousness in his belief
lravenhill 3 months ago
@lravenhill Agree. We were buried with Jesus in baptism. This to symbolize being "dead" to sin and will live for God only after the baptism. And when we live for God only we will surely bear good fruits ...the fruits of love. And how we display this fruits of love, it's by our good works, which is by serving and loving others as Christ has loved us. If we did not do that, and we sin instead without any effort to improve in holiness, it means actually we did not believe and did not love Christ.
For3nity 3 months ago
@lravenhill The story of Noah isa great fairy tale, but not fit for kindergarten. It is god`s first MASS-MURDER.
ndzoko 3 months ago
@ndzoko You are a complete moron
MrHarley567 2 months ago
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@MrHarley567You are a complete moron>> I know that, because intelligent people like you, call " drowning the whole human race " an act of love "
ndzoko 2 months ago
@For3nity baptism does not cleanse you of your sin. we are saved by grace through faith. baptism is a commandment to all those who believe. if you read any portion of scripture that talks about baptism it is always stated that they believe first. children are brought to Jesus but it is never said that they were baptized. especially when those who were baptized prayed and confessed their sins during the process. something an infant cant do.
phatneazy 3 months ago
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@phatneazy Roman 6:4.Therefore we are buried with him by BAPTISM into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For3nity 3 months ago
@phatneazy What a pile of bible nonsense!!. Congrats.
ndzoko 2 months ago
@For3nity Nowhere in the bible do the scriptures say to worship, pray or ask Mary to intercede for us. The Rosary, Crossing yourself, Holy water, Engraved images, Idol worship, praying to saints, or that Jesus ever called Peter a Pope much less Holy Father such as all Catholics do. There is only one Father and he is our Father who art in Heaven. And that's it. The Bible clearly says that God will not share His Glory with any one, and that he is a Jealous God. Explain these practices?
MrGerardo1970 4 months ago
@MrGerardo1970 God shares His glory (John 17:22). The Rosary as mini-bible: I have explained it to you. Idol worship in NT is not related to engraved image but those things you love above God (Col 3:5, Eph 5:5). Even in OT God asked Moses to make serpent of brass (Number 21:8-9). Solomon made Cherubim (1 Kings 6:23-35), we are to pray for each other - the prayers of the righteous/Saints is very powerful (Phil 1:19, James 5:16), Mary intercession (John 2:1-11). God is jealous because He loves us
For3nity 4 months ago
@For3nity Nowhere in the bible do the scriptures say to worship, pray or ask Mary to intercede for us. The Rosary, Crossing yourself, Holy water, Engraved images, Idol worship, praying to saints, or that Jesus ever called Peter a Pope much less Holy Father such as all Catholics do. There is only one Father and he is our Father who art in Heaven. And that's it. The Bible clearly says that God will not share His Glory with any one, and that he is a Jealous God.
MrGerardo1970 4 months ago
@MrGerardo1970 In the bible Mary interceded for us in the wedding at Cana. The Rosary is mini-bible for we contemplate on the life, ministry, passion and resurrection of Christ. Crossing is mentioning the name of the Trinity, our God. Engraved images is only Art. Worshiping them as God is prohibited. Idol worship is when you idolize other things but God (money, power, greed, etc- Col 3:5, Eph 5:5). We are to pray to each other (praying to the alive Saints in heaven).God shares glory: John 17:22.
For3nity 4 months ago
@For3nity Ha Ha Ha. O my God. How ridiculous can you be. So Jesus preached on such teachings?
Please give me those bible verses.
MrGerardo1970 4 months ago
@MrGerardo1970 Jesus main teaching is love that never ends....that we love one another as He has loved us. And we show our love to all members of God big family....to the the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, the Mother (Mary), the Brothers and Sisters (the Saints in heaven), the brothers and sisters (the saints on earth)....thru prayers and thru their images. And Peter is to lead the Sheep of Jesus, which is now the Pope (John 21:15-17). The spiritual leader is called Father (1 Cor 4:14-15)
For3nity 4 months ago
@For3nity jesus was the last PROPHET, PRIEST AND KING. Catholic priest cannot nor have the power to forgive sins. That is why Jesus died once on the cross as the Lamb of God, one sacrifice for all mankind. I will pray for you, that God will open your eyes and that God will open your eyes and that He wakes you up from your sleep. God Bless my Friend.
MrGerardo1970 4 months ago
@MrGerardo1970 --Jesus gave all priest the power to forgives sins: "Whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven, and whose sins you do not forgive, they are not forgiven". -J. Christ
RepentAmerica454 4 months ago
@MrGerardo1970 As answered by RepentAmerica454, the priests forgive sins "on-behalf" of Jesus. It's Jesus who forgives sins, thru the priests who have been given the authority by Jesus. And we Catholics believe it's Jesus there in the confession room, not the priests. We have to walk by faith, not by sight.
For3nity 4 months ago
@MrGerardo1970 And thank you for praying for me. We will pray for you too :-)
God Bless....!
For3nity 4 months ago
to all you misguided fundies who think you're some sort of "authority" of the Bible, Number ONE: the "assembly" you belong to isnt even "THE CHURCH" of the Bible, TWO, the BIble didnt drop outta the sky like a lot of you poor simpletons THINK it did, and 3, the POPE is a BISHOP and the successor to the apostle of Peter
All of the apostles, Paul, Luke, Mark, Philemon, Linus (2Tim4:21 & Peter's 1st successor), & Clement (Phil4:3 & Peter's 3rd successor) were all BISHOPS!! 1Tim3; Tit1:7; 1Pt2:25
Fallschirmjaeger29 5 months ago
you poor fundies think that the "assembly" you belong to is THE CHURCH of the Bible.. Think again. You're a bunch of poor misguided people who dont know any better. You're like the lot of people who watch wrestling
Fallschirmjaeger29 5 months ago
Praise God and His Mercy to see these two men come out of the Abyss of Catholicsim, I was also deliverd from this Den of Devils by hearing the Glorious Gospel which was never preached at St Marys Catholic Church
JesusNonEnviromental 5 months ago
@JesusNonEnviromental You were not delivered from the Den of Devils. You were lured away from your True Home, who was the first and the only one preaching the True Gospel. For sure the Gospel was preached at St Marys Catholic Church. If you return back home to the Catholic Church (many ex-catholics have been returning home) make sure to worship Jesus' real presence in the Eucharist....never sleep!
For3nity 4 months ago
@For3nity Sir, go into a foreign land a share the Gospel to a poor lost soul, I can hear a Catholic now sharing the Gospel, " You must come to the Catholic Church and you must be baptized, but first we must see your good works before we sprinkle you and then you must be confirmed by the Bishop and then you must come to the Mass on Sunday and eat and drink Jesus. These are things you must do, We must teach you to pray to Mary for intercession and teach you the Rosary so you can do penance."
JesusNonEnviromental 4 months ago
@For3nity The Lost soul shall say, But I have read this bible and I believe what is written and I believe that Christ has died for my sins and that I have been baptized by Christ into his death and will rise with him in His Resurrection. The Catholic will say, Put that bible away you are not fit to interpret and it does not contain all that you must do to be saved. You must come under the Authority of the Pope and the church and we will see that you make it to purgatory.
JesusNonEnviromental 4 months ago
@JesusNonEnviromental And Jesus will say to the poor lost soul when he failed to reach heaven because of following the heretical teaching outside His Holy Church: My true disciples have reminded you of my commandments in Luke 9:23: Deny yourself, take up your cross and follow Me. I also commanded you to do good work as not to be a GOAT whose place is in the everlasting fire (Mat 25:31-43). I commanded you also to eat My Body and Blood (John 6:53-54)...etc..etc. You disobeyed all my commandments.
For3nity 4 months ago
@For3nity Not once during your vain utterances did you mentions anything about the Lord Jesus dying for your sins and by the shedding of blood your sins were covered. You didnt mention that it was the Father who drew your sinful soul to the Son and it was Jesus who changed you with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. No, you rambled on about Mother church when the church is said to the Bride and you mentioned good works as if it it were own hands that saved you. Jesus is not flesh and blood
JesusNonEnviromental 4 months ago
@JesusNonEnviromental Let me make it simple for you. To be saved you are to believe in the Lord Jesus who has redeemed you with His Holy Body and Blood thru His sacrifice on the cross. That's the first step, for the "baby" believer. The next step as you grow up as a true believer, you are to leave sins and live only for God.....in other words be HOLY, as nothing impure may enter into the presence of God.
For3nity 4 months ago
@For3nity You seem to be confused my brother, You were made holy which means you were sanctified or set apart for the Kingdom of God and that was not done by you or your repentance of sin. Repentance is also given to you by the working of the Holy Spirit because you are still in the flesh which is at enmity with God. You abhor Sin now only because Christ lives in you brother. You have no strength over sin, it was given you by the indwelling spirit even your love for God is given you
JesusNonEnviromental 4 months ago
@JesusNonEnviromental How many people who believe in God and Jesus later on turned atheists? So believe in God and Jesus is necessary, but then we have to work hard to keep it and to improve in holiness. God do his part, but we have to do our part also. When you need food, you ask God and He will give you. But without any effort, you have no bread. The same with holiness. We have to always focus on God to improve in holiness. He will help us, but no holiness without any big effort from us.
For3nity 4 months ago
@For3nity All of what you said is good and it is good that you live holy and keep from returning to your former ways, but I am trying to impress upon you is that the goodness in you is a fruit of the Spirit of God. You are flesh and have yet to be resurrected or your flesh glorified so you have no power over temptation or sin but the Holy Spirit in you has empowered you so all the Glory is to God and not yourself. You are a product of Gods handy work and He will sustain you if you are His.
JesusNonEnviromental 4 months ago
@JesusNonEnviromental And I am trying to impress you too that we are to provoke one another unto love and to good works as the bible said in Hebrew 10:24, and that we shall endure unto the end TO BE SAVED, of course after we accepted Christ as our Savior (Mat 24:13); and that we have to strive to be perfect to imitate the perfect Father in heaven, of course by always holding His hand to help us (Mat 5:48), and that we are to always strive for holiness in the fear of God (2 Cor 7:1).
For3nity 4 months ago
@For3nity You have spoken well, now let me say, He that has begun this good work in you will accomplished it until the end Phil 1:6 And we see in 2 Sam 22:33 that it is by Gods strength and power that our path is made straight. So, if our path is straight and we are pressing on to the high calling of our Lord Jesus then it is God who receives the Glory because is is He that is doing this work in Sinners
God Bless
JesusNonEnviromental 4 months ago
@JesusNonEnviromental Amen to Phil 1:6. He will help us to the end, because to believe in Christ is also to suffer for His sake (Phil 1:29); and we cannot make it without Him. As for 2 Sam 22:33, yes God makes our way perfect, but with one condition: unreserved trust in Him. Proverb 3:5-6: Trust in the LORD with all your heart, on your own intelligence do not rely; In all your ways be mindful of him, and he will make straight your paths. Finally, pray for me because I need it :-) (Phil 1:19)
For3nity 4 months ago
@For3nity Amen, we are in agreement I will certainly pray for you
JesusNonEnviromental 4 months ago
@JesusNonEnviromental Thank you Jesus :-)
For3nity 4 months ago
@For3nity When we understand that all that is good about us is the fact that God has indwelt us with His Holy Spirit and we are new creatures in Christ. We are sustained by His Power and protected from the Evil One. Those who turn back to sin were never filled with Gods Spirit, they rejoiced but for a short while in the flesh but had no strength or power over Sin and were again defeated. If you have the Holy Spirit you can never be defeated and holy living is a product and evidence of that
JesusNonEnviromental 4 months ago
@JesusNonEnviromental So who were those who turned back to sin? Weren't they baptized and born again? Then the Holy Spirit was supposed to be in them. But how come then they turned back to sin if the Holy Spirit will do everything for them once they accepted Christ as they Lord and Savior? Hebrew 6:1-6 said after accepting Christ and the Holy Spirit, we may still fall away and crucify Jesus and put Him to an open shame. So the Holy Spirit will only be always with us if we strive for holiness.
For3nity 4 months ago
@For3nity Repentance from God I Cor 6:9 Love for God from God Romans 5:5 Made Holy by God 1 Cor 6:11
JesusNonEnviromental 4 months ago
@JesusNonEnviromental Sorry, Repentance from God Roman 2:4
JesusNonEnviromental 4 months ago
@JesusNonEnviromental "Love for God from God: Romans 5:5" Repentance from God: Roman 2:4."
Amen. Every good thing is from God, but our duty is to keep it by keep focusing on God. God give us the seed...our duty is to nurture with good spiritual food. Otherwise, we will end up atheists as I mentioned before. As for so many devout Catholics turned Saints, the secret is they strive to improve in holiness by focusing on God and Christ and keep taking the spiritual food:Jesus Body and Blood(Jn:6)
For3nity 4 months ago
@JesusNonEnviromental "Made Holy by God 1 Cor 6:9"
The context is the blood of Jesus washed away our sin...but then after that we have to keep it clean by always making great effort to leave sins, or be dead to sin, and improve in holiness (crucify our flesh, carry our cross and follow Him). Otherwise,as I have to say again we will end up atheists and become much more wicked than before we accepted Christ. If you need evidence, search the internet and see how many ex-christians turn atheists
For3nity 4 months ago
As well when the apostles chose thoes to take the office of the bishop of rome they chose in both cases celabit men who remained so untill they where martryed, this has continued to be the practise even till today
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "As well when the apostles chose thoes to take the office of the bishop of rome they chose in both cases celabit men who remained so untill they where martryed, this has continued to be the practise even till today"
Wrong! This is Pauls own words.
"This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one WIFE, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz The apsotles apponted Linus, who was not married to be bishop of Rome. They apponted Clement as well who was not married to be bishop of Rome, they both remained celibate. The latin rite from the very begging has had a practise of non married celibate Popes
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@troysz Jesus told us that "there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it."....Well I don't see anyone else practising this but the Latin rite of the Catholic church, we merly provide an envierment of none temtation to those who wish to follow GOD as a eunch.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 Sorry son but you yet seem not to understand english.
Show me where the Apostles wrote about a latin and eastern rite.
Show me where the Apostles said that were priests in the church rather than all believers were of a royal priesthood.
Show me where the Apostles said that if a bishop wanted to marry he had to be part of some eastern rite.
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz "Show me where the Apostles wrote about a latin and eastern rite."...
Sure show me where the apostles told you to have a computer
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@troysz This Apostolic tradition "This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one WIFE, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;"
is not what your sect teaches. Your sect does not standfast in or hold to the traditions that the Apostles clearly taught the 1st century church.
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz "The book of Revelation was written 1st not spoken orally to the seven churches to whom it was addressed to, so was the book of Galatians. Every thing taught the 1st century church was not spoken 1st."
Care to provide evidence that Rev or Gal was in use in the 1st century, who it was written by, and the fact it was written before being spoken, please give me the source?
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@troysz "there was no such tradition in the 1st century church. There was one church, one doctrine, one tradition"
Well the church has allways been Catholic,meaning universal,there have always been five rites in the church from the very begging.They are Rome,Alexandria,Antioch,Jerusalem, and Constantinople.They all have(or had up untill 1054) the same dogmas, yet they all had different culure and practises.All the apostles where called to sereve in different ways it is the same with the 5 seas
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "Well the church has allways been Catholic,meaning universal"
Another lie from your father. The word "catholic" means universal when it is not capitalized. The word is an adjective as universal is. The word Catholic is a proper noun and does not mean universal it being a proper noun identifies not describes something specific. It is the name of your sect but not the name that Apostolic tradition gave to the church. It is tradition of man from satan.
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz Nope the word Catholic is the name of the church, it still means, as it has allways ment, universal.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "Nope the word Catholic is the name of the church"
Yes it is the name of the counterfeit church started by satan. The church the Apostles founded is clearly seen in scripture and it was not once called the Catholic church.
Mary's name is in scripture, so is Jesus', so is Israel's, so is Rome's, etc,. but there is no church name the Catholic church in scripture, It is of satan.
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz Nope ther church has allways been called catholic long before the scripture was cannonized "Wherever Jesus is there is the Catholic church" ~ St Ignaius 30-107 A.D....sry you have been decieved.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@troysz But I would have you to be without solicitude. He that is without a wife, is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please God. But he that is with a wife, is solicitous for the things of the world, how he may please his wife: and he is divided.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 ""This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one WIFE, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to"
This is the Apostolic tradition for selecting bishops and it says specifially "office of a bishop" .
You have yet to post one writings from the Apostles that says if a man desires the office of bishop he must join the eastern rite if he marries.
troysz 7 months ago
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@troysz "But I would have you to be without solicitude. He that is without a wife, is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please God. But he that is with a wife, is solicitous for the things of the world, how he may please his wife: and he is divided."
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@troysz "This is the Apostolic tradition for selecting bishops and it says specifially "office of a bishop" ...
Actually the word office is not there in neither the original Greek nor in the cannonized Latin. The word Bishop is also not used, as Bishop is an english languide word, and english had not been invented, the Greek refferse rather to a minister.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 Sorry son tell your father that lie won't stand here.
No Apostle named the church "Catholic", and only they would hav been authorized to.
In fact neither did Ignatius, he described the church as universal. The word he used was not a catholic because that is a late latin word that would not exist until the 1800s. He used thr Koine greek word "katholikos" which is not a name it only means universa.
Go tell your father that you need to study
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz Sry to disapoint but Ignatius could not have used the english alphabet the word he used was "καθολικός"...Stop shooting yourself in the foot. It really is funny to watch you dance around over samantics, but if your going to be so samanitical then expect the same from me.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
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@gtepp031387 "Sry to disapoint but Ignatius could not have used the english alphabet the word he used was "καθολικός"..."
I never said that he used the english alphabet. It appears that you ignorance extends to transliteraltions as well.
Now tell me what "καθολικός"...means without "applying any 21st century english definitions to a 1st century greek word"
troysz 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "Actually the word office is not there in neither the original Greek "
Hmmm.....The greek is ἐπισκέπτομαι (episkopē)
1) overseership, office, charge, the office of an elder
2) the overseer or presiding officers of a Christian church
Go and study some more son.
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz Sry you can not apply 21st century english definitions to a 1st century greek word, you are rather funny...Please give me a greek first century source that says the word there means office...I will be waiting.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "Sry you can not apply 21st century english definitions to a 1st century greek word"
So then you are saying that "katholikos" could not mean "Catholic" and that Ignatius was not naming the church Catholic or even describing it as universal.
Your sect needs better defenders than you son.
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz Nope the word in Greek means one thing that is universal, the word made in english was made for one perpose to be an enlish eqivalent of the Greek word....Sry but you speaking giberish.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 So you use "minister" a 21st century word to describe "ἐπισκοπή" but then claim that I cannot use the universally accepted meaning in english?
See what tactics you in your sect must stoop to? If your sect was based on truth there would be no need to.
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz "See what tactics you in your sect must stoop to?"...Are you addressing this comment at yourself?... you are the one who started this samanitical nonsence over the word Catholic...remember???
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@troysz And again "katholikos" was not the word Ignatius used, thoe it means the same thing, how could he have he did not use the english alphabet....Your funny
gtepp031387 7 months ago
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@gtepp031387 "tell me what "καθολικός"...means without "applying any 21st century english definitions to a 1st century greek word"
troysz 7 months ago
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troysz 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "Sry you can not apply 21st century english definitions to a 1st century greek word, you are rather funny"
Hmmmm....?
"the Greek refferse rather to a minister."
Is not minister a 21st century english definition?
Ignorant, deceitful, and hypocrite comes to mind.
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz Well unless you want me to start talking Greek, which i doubt either of us could understand, then I will have to use a close facsimile in english, Or would you rather I use Greek and Latin and have you traslate it? ....sillyness...the word in Greek was closer in meanin to a minister then to a bishop yes...you are really into being samantical aren't you?
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "you are really into being samantical aren't you?"
No son but you are really in to being a hypocrite though.
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz The only way for you too even have a chance against the truth of the one holy Catholic and apostolic church, is to play this endless samantical card isn't it?...I feel sry for you.."We believe in one holy Catholic and apostolic church" ~ 1st ecumentical council of the united Chistian church 325 A.D.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 Are you sure you are Catholic? You seem to contradict your own sect. I just got this from the Vatican's official website,
"This saying is trustworthy: whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task.
Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable, married only once, temperate, self-controlled, decent, hospitable, able to teach,
It appears that even you won sect disagrees with you and accepts that "ἐπισκέπτομαι"..."episkopē" means what everyone but you does.
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz All english versions, even the catholic ones, are bordering on herisy. Greek and Latin do not work well with English. As both Greek and Latin are highly condensed languidges, and English is the most expansive languide to date.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "All english versions, even the catholic ones, are bordering on herisy."
So your Pope and the Vatican have a heretical Bible on their official website? Interesting you are sad. You have no respect for your own sect's Pope.
So now you know better than you Pope and every other Bible translator and linguistics expert.
This is very insteresting. Maybe you should be the Pope.
You are not married are you?
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz I said bordering on herisy, i did not say they where heretical.
I know that when I have issues I go to the latin Vulgate, and I can see that all english translations do not match up.
No I would not want to be Pope, I have not the will, that's got be harder then being president.
I am married in fact, i am thinking mabey of joining the maronites and becoming a priest, but is only a dream at this point.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "I said bordering on herisy"
Oh I know you said "bordering on heresy" and am amazed that someone would so arrogant to make such a statement about the Bible on their sect's (that they claim to be the true church), offical website.
Incredible....because you say so. Because you do not accept that "ἐπισκέπτομαι"..."episkopē" means what everyone else accepts.
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz No my friend if it was simply one word I would not really have a problem, but there are hundreds, thousands, of (not incorrect) but incomplete translation into english.Greek and Latin, usally have at least 3 different meanings per word, yes the text could mean bishop, it could mean priest, even as wide as minister, or servant..do you see my point? Lets take the word brother as translated in the KJV and other english text, the Greek word can mean brother yet it can mean up to relative to
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "No my friend if it was simply one word"
It was only one word we were discussing when you said that it did not mean bishop or office of bishop. I understand that you have problems with many other words and how they were translated.
However I am focused on one becaue you have no grounds to say that "ἐπισκέπτομαι"..."episkopē" does not mean bishop/office of a bishop none whatsoever.
It simply proves that the RCC does not follow Apostolic instruction in this.
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz It can mean bishop yes, however it can not mean office, there is no word in latin nor in Greek for the word office in the scripture, if you want to say that bishops is an office, which i believe that is fine, but there is no need to add the word office in, since it is not there in the original Greek, nor the cannonized Latin.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 " it can not mean office"
Not once did I say it meant "office" However office of a bishop does not dectract from it's meaning of "bishop" because bishop is accept as an office (a position of authority) in scripture.
The bottom line is that the RCC appoints bishops and they do not do so according to clear criteria and tradition established by the Apostles Paul when instructing Tinothy in the very thing.
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz "The bottom line is that the RCC appoints bishops and they do not do so according to clear criteria and tradition established by the Apostles Paul when instructing Tinothy in the very thing."
Sry I see that they do follow the criteria, again the Catholic church has more married ordained ministers then any protestan denomination. Then only way for you to come to such a conclusion is for you to personal interprite the scripture differently then all those that came before the 1500s.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "Sry I see that they do follow the criteria"
That is a lie and you very well know it. Show me where Paul said that the church was to be split into two rites and that married bishops should be excluded from one of them.
You and I have both have a nose on our face....that does not mean that we are the same.
Simply having married bishops is not the same criteria as what the Apostle Paul established. Your sect has additional criteria not from the Apostles.
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz Your argument is not only silly but is self condemming let me show you...Did Jesus tell you to use a computer?..well then you have condemmed yourself.
The Church has allways had different rites(ways to serve GOD) even in the time of the apostles. Simon was a zealot, John was from the rite of the pharisees and scribes...would you condemm John for using a different calendar then the rest of the apostles? The council in Jerusalem distinguisted another rite, that was the Gentile rite.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "Your argument is not only silly but is self condemming let me show you...Did Jesus tell you to use a computer?..well then you have condemmed yourself"
Now you have really shown how foolish you are. I do not use a computer as a church tradition.
If you cannot distinguish between church tradition and things used in everyday life you are truly ignorant.
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz "If you cannot distinguish between church tradition and things used in everyday life you are truly ignorant."...Intresting since I told you a hundred time celabcy was a practise....seems your little argument just bit you on the arse didn't it?
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "."...Intresting since I told you a hundred time celabcy was a practise"
You could tell the same lie a thousand time and it woould not be true.
Mandatory celibacy for bishops in the latin rite of your sect is a tradition and one not established by the Apostles.
Of the individual bishops in the latin rite practice celibacy but it is the tradition of the Catholic church for bishops in the latin rite.
People do practice traditions from religious sects son. Go and study
troysz 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "...would you condemm John for using a different calendar then the rest of the apostles?"
Another ignorant question.
The Apostle Paul did not tell us to use any certain calender.
He did say to standfast and hold to the traditions which were taught to the 1st century church.
None of those traditions included splitting the church into a latin and eastern rite and separating bishops according to whether the were single or not into either one of those rites.
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz "The Apostle Paul did not tell us to use any certain calender."
Niether did they say we couldn't have a Latin rite,...see samantics bit you in the arse don't they?
The different rites are practises, they all hold the dogma(tradition) from GOD and the apostles.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@troysz So it is you who is the lier. Your interpritation of scripture, and you pressupisitions of what the church is, has lead you into great error. In Rev we see many rites, when john is talking about the different chures, though all are Catholic, they have different way of doing things, some have strayed some have not, each church inside of a rite even does things a little different, you could almost say they are a rite of there own, but they must hold to the dogma of the church.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "So it is you who is the lier. Your interpritation of scripture, and you pressupisitions of what the church is, has lead you into great error. In Rev we see many rites, when john is talking about the different chures, though all are Catholic, they have different way of doing things"
More lies from your father.
The churches in Rev were not different rites they were only different locations.
Again tell your father that your lies from him will not stand here.
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz There is no scripture that prohibts a group of the church from practising celibacy. The only way you can come up with such a conculsion is through presuppositional, Iso Jesus, personal interpriation of the scripture, as there is no scripture that prohibits a group of the church from practising celibacy. Not only is it not prohibited it is encouraged in the scripture as, "He that is without a wife, is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please God."
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "There is no scripture that prohibts a group of the church from practising celibacy."
wrong again! Scripture tells us to standfast and hold to the traditions that were taught to the 1st century church.
The tradition left and practiced by the Apostles and the 1st century church was that a bishop or an Apostles could operate anywhere in the church whether single or married.
It was not that a married bishop could not operate in a certain part of the church.
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz The Latin rite has always practised celibacy, Peter left his wife and did not return to her, the only bishops that we are aware of that he appointed in the Latin west where celibate and remained so untill death, this was practised in the first century, by Linus, Anticletus, and Clement. It is a pracitse that stems from the apostles in the Latin west. Again there is no scripture that prohibits a group of the church from practising celibacy.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "Peter left his wife and did not return to her"
Again you are a liar.
The scripture has never said that Peter left his wife and never returned to her. Also Paul specifically taught that one married to a wife should not leave her.
Jesus does not require married leaders to leave their spouses.
troysz 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "The Latin rite has always practised celibacy"
Exactly your satanic sect has always required it but neither the Apostles or Jesus did.
Apostles were free to marry and remain apostles. 1 Corinthians 9:1-5
Apostles taught that bishops could be married PERIOD! NOT JUST IN SOME EASTERN RITE
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz "Apostles were free to marry and remain apostles. 1 Corinthians 9:1-5"
Never said they where not, but he that could should not.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@troysz Again there is one Latin rite, one place in the church thats has now probley nearly a hundred rites where those that wish to practice celibacy can go. Are you saying there should be no place where celibate priest priest can go where they can not be distracted by temptation?
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "Again there is one Latin rite"
Yes and it is of satan not God. It has traditions contrary and in addition to what the Apostles clearly taught. It does not allow bishop within it to marry and this is against clear Apostolic tradition.
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz" It has traditions contrary and in addition to what the Apostles clearly taught."
No it doesn't again the apostles taugh that there could be celibate bishops, they never taught that a group of the church could not practice celibacy, and again allthough rare a priest/bishop can be married in the Latin rite.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 " apostles taugh that there could be celibate bishops"
They did not teach that bishpops should be divided into rites based on whether they married or not. A married bishop under the Apostles would have had no restriction as seen in your satanis sect.
No bishop under the Apostles would have been told that they cannot not be a bishop anywhere because they were married.
Your attempts at twisting truth are pathetic.
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz "No bishop under the Apostles would have been told that they cannot not be a bishop anywhere because they were married."...
Bishops where assigned to certain places, they where ristricted to there respected teritories, unless given a specific task by the head of the apostles, that is Peter, or GOD. So your ridiculus assumtions are futile.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "Bishops where assigned to certain places, they where ristricted to there respected teritories, unless given a specific task by the head of the apostles, that is Peter, or GOD. So your ridiculus assumtions are futile."
And regardles of the territory bishops were assigned to by Apostolic tradition they could be married unlike in your sect from satan.
No bishop under the Apostles were restricted from marrying based upon what territory they were assigned to.
Try another lie.
troysz 6 months ago
@troysz Are you saying there should not be a place where celibate clergy can go, and be away from the temtations of lust?...That is as ridiculus as it sounds...sillyness
gtepp031387 6 months ago
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@gtepp031387 "Are you saying there should not be a place where celibate clergy can go, and be away from the temtations of lust?...That is as ridiculus as it sounds...sillyness"
Your deceptive tactics won't work on me son.
Your satanic contrary to Apostic instruction in scripture is saying that there are places where married bishops cannot go.
This is tradition of man and from satan and practiced by your satanic sect.
You are looking more and more foolish every time you post
troysz 6 months ago
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@gtepp031387 "Are you saying there should not be a place where celibate clergy can go, and be away from the temtations of lust?..."
You are suggesting that there is only tempation and lust in the eastern riet. Now that is silly and foolish beyond measure.
If there were no temptation or lust where your sect's celibate bishops are then they would not be molesting young boys. So that argument is silly beyond measure.
troysz 6 months ago
@troysz Again the practice of Celibacy in the Latin rite has been in practice since it's establishment by Peter in 41-42 A.D. If the apostles had a problem with this practice then they surley would have said something, as John wathched this practiced for another 60 years, he obviously didn't have a problem with it.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "Again the practice of Celibacy in the Latin rite has been in practice since it's establishment by Peter in 41-42 A.D."
You and your lies are of the devil. Peter established no such practice.
troysz 7 months ago
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@troysz
"Again the practice of Celibacy in the Latin rite has been in practice since it's establishment by Peter in 41-42 A.D." You and your lies are of the devil. Peter established no such practice."
Every writter in the early church, that covered this topic confirms my word, it is a historical fact, so take your Iso Jesus personal interpritations somewhere else.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387
Peter an apostle was married.
Paul made it clear that Apostles could marry.
It makes no sense that the highest office in the church could marry but that a lesser office could not.
There is no evidence whatsoever in scripture that bishops or Apostles were required not to marry to operate in any area of the church.
This is your satanic sect's tradition not the Apostles
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz After peter was called he practised celibacy, he left EVERYTHING AND FOLLOWED JESUS.
Paul makes it clear that an apostle can be celibate, and it is preferred that they are
There is nothing higher then a bishop, even the Pope is just a bishop, he only holds a primacy.
There is in fact eveidence in every early writtter that the Latin rite practised celibacy in the time of the apostles, and the apostles never condmeed it, or said a word about it.\
Nope your Iso Jesus interpritaions.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "After peter was called he practised celibacy, he left EVERYTHING AND FOLLOWED JESUS.
Another lie from satan. Peter did not practice celbacy he was simply away from his wife for a while the same as modern missionaries are sometimes.
"There is nothing higher then a bishop, even the Pope is just a bishop, he only holds a primacy."
Apostles were higher than bishops, and there are no Popes in Christ's church just your sect from satan.
troysz 6 months ago
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@gtepp031387 "After peter was called he practised celibacy, he left EVERYTHING AND FOLLOWED JESUS.
Another lie from satan. Peter did not practice celbacy he was simply away from his wife for a while the same as modern missionaries are sometimes.
"There is nothing higher then a bishop, even the Pope is just a bishop, he only holds a primacy."
Apostles were higher than bishops, and there are no Popes in Christ's church just your sect from satan.
troysz 6 months ago
@gtepp031387 "a group of the church from practising celibacy"
Can a married bishop be a bishop in the latin rite?
NO!
Why
because the tradition of the RCC is that he be celibate
Is there any tradition in scripture that mandates that a bishop be celibate to be a bishop anywhere in the church?
NO?
troysz 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "There is no scripture that prohibts a group of the church from practising celibacy."
1 Timothy 3:2 prohibits the church from mandating that bishops be celibate by saying that bishops can marry.
1 Corinthians 1-5 prohibits the church from mandating celibacy because it says that even one in the highest office of the church (Apostles) can choose whether to marry or not
Bishops in your latin rite should have the right to be married within the latin rite.
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz Again the church allows bishops to Marry, we have many married bishops and priest. Again there is no scripture that prohibits a group of the church from practising celibacy. Niether in 1 Timothy 3:2 nor in 1 Cor 1-5 does it state that a group of the church can not practice celibacy, only your Iso Jesus interpritation says that. Again there is no scripture that states that a group of the church can not practice celibacy.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 " Again the church allows bishops to Marry,"
Again you are a liar.
Your sect does not allow bishops to marry in the latin rite. Your sect places a restriction on married bishops which is not according to Apostolic tradition.
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz "The scripture has never said that Peter left his wife and never returned to her."
"Peter answered him, "We have left everything to follow you!" Matthew 19:27...I guess wife doesn't incompass everything in your personal interpritation huh???
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "I guess wife doesn't incompass everything in your personal interpritation huh???"
The is no scripture that says that Peter left his wife and never returned to her. Your satanic sect teaches so not scripture
troysz 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?"
Peter was indeed married.
troysz 7 months ago
@troysz "Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?"...
Don't see Peter in this verse, in fact the Cephas in this verse semms to be seperated from the apostles and even the LORD's brethren, I don't think Paul liked the diciple Cephas very much.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@troysz But Peter was married, he then choose to leave EVERYTHING as, Peter answered him, "We have left everything to follow you! Matthew 19:27
gtepp031387 7 months ago
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@gtepp031387 "But Peter was married, he then choose to leave EVERYTHING as, Peter answered him, "We have left everything to follow you!"
Me and my wife can leave everything to follow Jesus that does not mean that we leave each other. That would be against what scripture clearly teaches.
A husband and wife are one in Christ. They are never required to leave the other.
Abraham left all to follow God and yet he was married.
troysz 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "Again there is no scripture that prohibits a group of the church from practising celibacy. Niether in 1 Timothy 3:2 nor in 1 Cor 1-5 does it state that a group of the church can not practice celibacy"
Again you are a liar.
Both scripture make it clear that leaders are allowed to marry and operate in any part of the church not just in one or another based on their marital staus.
The scripture says that a bishop can marry your sect say they cannot marry in the latin rite.
troysz 7 months ago