A TV debate on the EU Reform Treaty: Part 1/3

[jaffijaffer]

does anyone know the tune in the credits.

[Spenner56]

« The EU can lawfully suppress political criticism of its institutions and of leading public figures « ( European Court of Justice ruling 2001 ).

Goodbye free speech !

The European Charter of Fundamental Rights (art.2,passage 2) states that « lethal force »can be used to quell «rioting,civil upheaval"

Goodbye liberty !

The same Charter does not grant the right of EU citizens to VOTE.

Perhaps they forgot.

Remind them in the up-coming European elections.

eutruth

X09"dot"de

[01101100d]

what utter bloody rubbish, yeah gorden brown trying to put the blame on the politicians. Its all their fault, it is illegal under the 1689 act of treason to sign away our country without a vote for the law to be repealed or amended, this is what politicians really get scared on. The treaty is the constitution and infact its got more vitos not less, we will lose soveriegnty and our flag and even have to swear an oath to the eu, get stuffed, the oath ill make is its complete desent

[Greg260146]

Good luck Eire - Get the truth about oppression and the denial of democracy that is the centralised EU to enough people to vote NO & regain your liberty.

Membership of the EU has been a catastrophy for Eire raising hopes and provided a brief boom just to be used as a bribe to dupe the British. The EU now has little more chance of feeding iteslf without import than Eire had in the hungry 40s. The wars of disassociation are coming sooner rather than later and will be hideous - Vote NO leave NOW.

[Jonchess]

I've never heard a sensible argument for ratifying the Constitution/Treaty other than it would provide a unified response to Global warming (an unproven link between planet temperature and mans activities-it can just as easily be explained by periodic changes in the Suns emission of heat).

Wake up people before you sleep walk into a take-over of our freedoms (already seriously curtailed by ten years of Labour deception and spin)by a self-serving and unaccountable elite.

[FilipeBrasAlmeida]

Actually you should be outraged over the British opt-out from the European Charter of Fundamental Rights. The reason British politicians fear European Integration is because THEY are the ones in the power game, invoking the outdated concept of «sovereignty» out of fear of conceding local power over you, to enshrined pan-European civil rights and liberties. The arguments of euro-scepticism are an exact carbon copy of the anti-federalist reaction to the Federalist papers in 18th century America.

[pondman27]

It will happen, why? because they want to amalgamate the whole world into the New World Order (Gordon is a self proclaimed strong advocate). A single currency, a single law and judicial system. Do you really want this.

[EGODAVE]

very true my friend.people are being led into a dictatorship without realising.the media doesn't tell the truth because they are part of the global elite.what hitler tried to do through the front door, the unelected corrupt from brussels are doingthrough the back door.

[pondman27]

I think some of us should get together and let as meny folk know what the EU its treaties and potential effects really are. I am certain that >90% haven't a clue?

[EGODAVE]

i'll think you'll prboably find its 95%.its incredible the amount of people i speak to and do not realise what is actually happening.ukip have are doing great trying to get the message across.but the bias pro european media mainly the bbc wont let people know the truth.and the people that do know wont do jack about it.this used to be a country of revolutianaries.whats happened? it saddens me.glad were on the same page though my friend.

[carlosariars]

I've been studying the EU for more than a year now and I totally agree with you. The vast majority of people do not understand the

EU at all. After reading the Lisbon Treaty, I'm surprised people are so vehemently against it. It's great that the government's rejected a referedum here, cause the Treaty's good for Europe, and most crucially, good for Britain. Let's hope the Irish debate's more driven by rationality and common sense than by unfounded fear and vote a loud yes in their referendum.

[pondman27]

Carlos: Perhaps you didn't read my earlier comments. On a personal level, I am vehemently against the EU constitution. While it appears on the face, to be of benefit to individual rights, when you read more closely and understand the completed structure, you will find that it embodies the end of the democratic era. Laws will be written in Europe by unelected sponsorees of multinational interests, our food, water and freedoms will all but evaporate.

[carlosariars]

Lisbon introduces legislation that: 1) increases the power of national parliaments 2)increases the power of the European parliament 3)obligates the council to meet in public 4)subjects agencies such as europol and eurojust to more parliamentary scrutiny 5)introduces a charter of fundamental rights 6)increases the power of the European Court of Justice.

End of democratic era? Unelected sponsorees writing "laws"? evaporated freedoms?

Please, Pondman.

Go and read Lisbon. Really.

[pondman27]

Carlosariars. I have read as much of the Lisbon Treaty as I can afford the time to. So perhaps you can prove your position by citing the references where individual rights are assured within a democratic framework.

[kzearo]

It does not increase the power of National Parliaments. For a start, the Treaty forces its signatories to surrender vetoes in over 60 areas of decision making.

The article which I suspect you are primarily referring to is the one which grants Parliaments the ability to block Commission directives. However this is simply a distortion of the truth, all it does is give the Parliaments what is essentially a suggestion box at the European Commission, it does not oblige it to do anything.

[kzearo]

Why do we need a Charter of Rights? We already have the European Convention on Human Rights.

And why is increasing the powers of the Court of Justice a good thing? Such an increase will just grant more power to the EU to sanction and punish its Members for not abiding to EU law and legislation.