How Could I Live Without Filing Taxes?

[TheKaffeeKlatsch]

IRS CODE 9.2.3.5 Deadly Force.

[mrtimetime123]

How Could I Live Without Filing Taxes? - Carla Howell

[chumgrinder25]

Seriously, was this song actually SUNG by Carla Howell?

[10qqz]

Vote Libertarian! Stop allowing the government to steal from the American people!

lp.org

[JORGEPSOUSA911]

Carla Howell actually has a very good voice!

[TheWhiteRabbit1990]

Ever notice how the people who thing the government does such great work with our money never seem to Overpay their taxes? If you really think they are so great then you wouldn't mind donating a little more now would you?

[paladinstorm]

@TheWhiteRabbit1990 I just know that I keep getting money from the government every year; admittedly, what I get seems to merely be a portion of what my employer takes out of my paycheck over the last year, listed as being for taxes.

[BeantownJim]

Good pay mine! No taxation without representation!

[vxcriss]

Anyway, I'd like to apologize for the comment spam, I'm done with posting here. Eliharman if you want to continue the debate feel free to take it up on my channel or on private messages, thanks.

[vxcriss]

Anyway, just so people don't get on top of my ass :) I just want to mention that I pretty much hate all governments and everything that's an authority for that matter, I think paying taxes is kinda like modern day slavery and that all forms of government, including democracy, are really primitive and really wrong. But I realize that our species is too primitive for better forms of government and social structures, so like it or not we're stuck with it. Read my democracy article on my site...

[eliharman]

@vxcriss Read "The Evolution of Cooperation" by Robert Axelrod and get back to me.

[vxcriss]

@eliharman Well, you see, contrary to most people, I'm smart enough to understand things on my own and generate my own theories based on observation and through the use of logic. Although I value input from other people, if it is not logical, I can only dismiss it as being invalid. Sorry but I'm a programmer, logic is my bible and if a thought/idea is not backed up by logic it has no value to me. Unfortunately I'm not much of a reader and although I'll look that up, I doubt I'll ever read it.

[kicstart]

The song is awful, and the video misses the point of being for smaller government and that we don't need all of the so called "great government services".

There is a generation of people who have already been e-filing and tele-filing for over 10 years. Showing people filing with pencil and paper is no longer relevant.

For most people who are simple workers, you enter in one or more W2 into web page, and your return takes no more than 15 minutes.

[owensaruba]

For a good background to comprehend all this tax stuff you should Google these videos for a good crash course on the legal/commercial system. Entertaining and informative.

1.Think Free : Bursting Bubbles of Government Deception

2.ThinkFree Presents : The Magnificent Deception

3.Marc Stevens - Adventures In Legal Land

Then For more advanced reading

1. Bill Benson "The law that never was"

2. LB Bork "The Red Amendment"

3.Famguardian "THE GREAT IRS HOAX.pdf" free download at website.

[vxcriss]

Paying taxes sucks? Yes! Specially when you don't agree with what the government is doing with your money. Do you have a choice? No! Should that make you feel better? Well, leave everything you own at home, walk out the door with just your shirt and pants on, and go into the forest and live there for 5-6 months alone (if you have the skills to survive so long). Then you'll see that paying taxes to upkeep a functional society is not such a bad thing after all.

[eklypse0]

@vxcriss

Our country lasted 200 years, and was the most prosperous one in the world before an income tax was considered!

The Federal reserve was directly responsible for the great depression by pulling out 30% of the currency from the market, and our government was responsible for keeping it that way for much longer then it needed to be.

Constitutionally, States are responsible for roads, towns the roads, and people their own welfare.

[torch9t9]

That might be good advice if taxes had anything to do whatsoever with functional society. The two are not highly correlated.

[AnarchisThinker]

@vxcriss Even if you say that the taxes are needed to have a functional society, you've got to at least agree that in the USA, the tax code has gotten way too long.

[vxcriss]

We as a species are not evolved enough to be able to function properly without being forced into obedience. We are still at a stage where the carrot & stick method is essential to our functionality as a society. Thus, unfortunately, we need a government to keep us in line and allow us to work together as a society. We are probably at least 150 - 200 years away from being able to properly co-exist without an authority figure. Our first next step is a planet-wide authority / government.

[vxcriss]

Humans are animals, without an authority to force them into behaving there will be chaos. Law, thus order is enforced by the government. Once you have order, add infrastructure, which is the base for trading. Order (allows for production of goods) + trade = working economy = profit / development / prosperity = higher life quality. Take away order and infrastructure (like in war time or natural disasters) and people will get back to living like in the stone age. The point is... see next comment

[eliharman]

@vxcriss You ever seen a flock of birds flying together in unison, a herd of antelope on migration, or a file of ants on food detail? Who ordered them to do that? Who plans, coordinates and forces them to execute those activities in a coordinated way? No one, that's who. Ants, birds and antelope aren't smart enough to come up with an idea as stupid as central planning. No, it takes a university education to acquire that kind of stupid. Animals have to be content just to work together.

[vxcriss]

@eliharman Well I don't want to sound rude but you got things wrong here. Antelopes stick together because it offers them an advantage when it comes to escaping predators, same as all herd animals, birds flock together mainly for the same reason. Ants on the other hand have a very violent society, there is no individuality, all ants are just slaves with the sole purpose of protecting/serving their mound and queen.

[vxcriss]

@eliharman Humans are pretty much predators, if not mainly in diet, mostly in behavior, and if you look at all other predator species that form social groups, those groups are all lead by a powerful individual that establishes himself through violence and strength. Seriously now, you've all seen what happens when law fails, look at the New Orleans right after Katrina. Let's not get too warm and fuzzy about how good people are, when it comes to survival, everything goes.

[eliharman]

@vxcriss Well, I don't care if I sound rude or not, but I think my point would be better served by asking a thoughtful rhetorical question.

Would it be your contention that ant queens actively plan and manage the tens of thousands of "slaves" that inhabit their colonies? If you just think about it for a minute, it's obvious that they can't. They're just ants. Actually ants serve the hive on their own initiative because, due to a quirk in hymenoptera reproduction, that's their best strategy.

[vxcriss]

@eliharman sorry to spam this thread but I just can't pass on a good debate :) You are right about ants, they do serve willingly and without direct central control, but ants have no will of their own, they are genetically coded to serve. That's why comparing ant society to human society is just impossible. Honestly I like my ability to make decisions on my own and be self-centered, and I don't think any human on this planet would like to be a mindless drone, even though some people are :)

[eliharman]

@vxcriss So your point of view is that you like your ability to make decisions on your own, therefore there must be a body of men to make decisions for you? I'm struggling to understand...

[vxcriss]

@eliharman Well my point is pretty obvious, I'm sorry you're struggling with it. The reality is as follows, humans are individuals that generate their own thoughts and ideas and have their own will. IF they form a group where they are all equal, they will NEVER agree on what the group should do at a whole, there will always be someone to want to do things the "other" way, this can degenerate into sub-groups and conflict. The ONLY way humans will work together on a set goal is if they are led.

[mindprism]

@vxcriss {The ONLY way humans will work together on a set goal is if they are led.}

I call euphemism on the word 'led', what you really mean is 'forced by threat of violence'

[vxcriss]

@eliharman Oh and one more thing, and this is the last one :) here's the beauty of it. The most developed societies, the ones that are most technologically advanced and have the best living standards, they are the fastest to turn into total chaos when law fails. Considering US is one of the countries with the highest crime rate and with the toughest laws and law enforcement on the planet, just imagine what would happen if law would just disappear one day :)

[eliharman]

@vxcriss And humans are primates. Primates have hierarchies of status, but they don't have rulers as such. And primate social dynamics can take a number of forms, from the violent, and very heirarchical gorillas, to the relatively more peacful and egalitarian bonobos.

New Orleans is not a great example, since there wasn't an absence of government. The NOPD joined in the looting. Blackwater was called in, and the National Guard was roaming around shooting people, and illegally taking guns.

[eliharman]

@vxcriss And if your argument is that the toughest laws and law enforcement are correlated with the highest crime, then you may want to consider the exact order of causation that implies.

[vxcriss]

@eliharman In fact, I am convinced of the fact that passing tougher laws and toughening up law enforcement will automatically increase the social unrest and the crime rate. It is a vicious cycle, and it doesn't matter who "started it", but you can't solve crime rate through force. If you want to lower crime rate you have to look at what is causing it and solve those problems, however, since US is a pure capitalist country, poverty, one of the factors for rising crime rate, will never get solved.

[mindprism]

@vxcriss {without an authority to force them into behaving there will be chaos.}

Really? Is there a violent authority that manages your household? Is there one managing your associations with other people?

How on earth did societies evolve at all if, without government, everything is violence and chaos?

You are using the 'I kept all the elephants out of Antarctica' argument, where violent government takes credit for that which occurs naturally -- cooperation, and mutual respect.

[MrSiebel]

I'm never paying taxes again! Woohoo ~ fuck the IRS!

[skip3d]

This was from Carla Howell, a great American and a defender of Liberty here in the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts. I wish any of our politicians had her guts and brains. Instead, each time I go to the polls, I have the choice of voting against big government democrats and trying to decide which big government republican will do me the least harm. This Commonwealth is populated with sheeple like paradoxfox93 and would be doomed but for the likes of Ms. Howell. I still can hope.

[rtcfrmcali]

could i file taxes if i only worked like 2 months?

[torch9t9]

Depends on how much you made. Probably yes. And you would probably get all the deducted taxes refunded to you, for that much work.

[anyusmoon1]

Just think- filing is only a summary of the hassle spent, precious time & money, every GD day to save. THEN the AUDIT! How much time/$ is spent on THAT f'n mess! And the IRS gets to print all/$'s they they need to prosecute. YOU on the other hand get to pay with your hard earned labor some scheister that's not on your side but caves to every brochure/printed pamphlet telling us how it ISN'T!

This is all on top of knowing the fact that most of us aren't liable & testifying against ourselves!

[satyrrr99]

Nothing to stop you folks who think you are getting a good deal from paying more................

Right now our employees are better taken care of than the OWNERS of the state!

Income Taxes = SLAVERY

[jewy]

Yeah screw government. Who uses schools or roads or fire departments anyway? Nobody!

[torch9t9]

Your public school education shows, my Paduan learner. Road paving comes to about 7% of the MA budget, emergency services around 5% (most is paid for locally, not state or fed) and property taxes fund the bulk of public schools.

[jewy]

Torch, thanks for the tip, but I wasn't trying to itemize the entire state budget.

This whole tax revolt nonsense is the same sophomoric stuff that we've been seeing for years. You folks rant like hell about your taxes (Massachusetts actually has a significantly lower tax burden than Connecticut or New York) then whine when vital government services aren't available. Both stupid AND selfish.

Don't like having a government? I suggest you move to Afghanistan, Albania or Somalia. Have fun!

[torch9t9]

You're still missing the point, and haven't done the math. We go through about $40B/year. Taking $11B out of that is not going to impact vital services. Anybody who can't manage that doesn't deserve to be in office. The state budget doubles every 10 years, but the income of the population does not. There is no transparency in our budget, which makes hiding the waste child's play. Putting $11B back into taxpayers' hands will create many thousands of local jobs.

And knock off the ad hominems.

[jewy]

"We go through about $40B/year. Taking $11B out of that is not going to impact vital services."

Like hell it won't! You clowns also said Prop 2 1/2 wouldn't screw up Massachusetts' schools. And guess what? You were wrong there too.

[torch9t9]

Ok you're right. We really DO need to spend TWO HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS for a new Newton North High School for...what? 3000 students? Yes, that's much smarter than doing routine maintenance on the buildings. How much of it are YOU paying?

[RakeRocter]

hey jewy,

do you ever pay more than you're required to pay in taxes? or do you just pay the bare minimum, hoping it isn't all that much? put your money where your mouth is and give the IRS MORE than they ask for, you hypocrite.

people like you are who we fought the revolution against.

[paradoxfox93]

as if any of those things are funded by the FEDERAL income tax. Do your damn research before you post please. Schools, roads, fire, police and other basic government services are funded by the STATE. Hey, Mr. Knowitall...you wouldnt be able to tell us...offhand...exactly what the federal income tax IS spent on IN THIS COUNTRY?

[torch9t9]

You could bother to read the thread before you get all snotty. I AM talking about the state income tax.

[shanklinmike]

Public schools suck because of the government's monopoly. Most government production is contracted out because the government sucks at doing anything other than spending money inefficiently! Why can't we stop the government oligopolization and control over our kids and their parents choice. Monopolies are never the way to go. Look no further, the reason our schools are declining is because of too much government monopoly and a decrease in our economy due to high taxes!

[Logixmaster]

@paradoxfox93 lol, paying for the cost of war, current service members, and former service members =P

[mattgeb84]

Massachusetts doesn't pave the roads anyway?? if the retards that were in charge of us spent the tax money wisely instead of blowing it on useless crap then they would be able to give half of it back to us anyway and we would still have plenty for schools, roads, police, firefighters and the like

[IRSFRAUDEXPOSED]

i use to file so i can get what was taken back ... now i dont have withholdings.. learn the reality about income taxes ...ill show ya

[Paulitician1]

The paperwork makes it legitimate. A little like sport fighting.

[theymightbejason]

if only they were merely as bad as the mafia. what a wonderful fantasy.

[ChuShinTani]

You know at least the mafia doesn't make you fill out paper work.