UK Championship 2009 Day 8. OSullivan — Higgins. Frame 13, weird situation

[SenitMusic]

...I stayed for the voice

[flaggella8]

there are chicks at these

[cookiemonster1254]

boring......

[UKMonkey]

@cookiemonster1254 don't watch it then

[beyondcool]

i also don't understand what foul....



[djadudeguy]

@beyondcool I'm pretty sure as Ronnie went down to take the shot, he touched a ball and owned up to the fowl. That then left John in an awkward position of having to take a shot from an awkward position, which he wouldn't have had to do had Ronnie not fouled. In effect, the foul Ronnie committed worked in Ronnie's favour...

[teeneshverma]

@beyondcool I think he didn't hit any ball ..

[aries1986]

which red did ronnie foul?

[kryo101]

press 5 then 4 for 'he's found the gay'

[xboxing1000]

I'm African so... I'll bring vuvuzela to pool mathces

[TheSuperlime]

Foul and a miss, John Higgins four.

[BNMaurice]

press 4 for 'gay'

[Bogovi456]

@karimb001 i think same thing :)

[GoblinAZ]

Higgins look like Hannibal Lecter



[TICALOSTOMIE]

lol 5:04



[iralee3c]

ronnie shoots straighter than any human, but he doesn't really know the rails

[beansterman1998]

I'm a dinosaur, forgive me. LOL

[marcushooten]

i could not see which red ronnie fowled... think he just gave up?

[TheVidic09]

he would have got it if he had some coke

[nashs69on]

Good example of why Snooker isn't on TV. Even though I really like the game. Just too intricate for TV.

[xabun]

@nashs69on Eurosport? of course it is on TV ...

[GERmaHy]

7:35 FUCK THE REFERY xD

[Quigongdefens1]

i would bring a air horn to pool matches...

[MRrHaCkZ]

@Quigongdefens1 Its snooker mate.

[mcdetinate]

@Quigongdefens1 shame that its snooker then isnt it

[MrDordyReppinG2G]

@Quigongdefens1 snooker

[xxiirraayy]

@Quigongdefens1

Or an Vuvuzela or even both ;)

[TooStealthyy]

@Quigongdefens1 That's cool, but this is a snooker match

[poolmaster18]

@Quigongdefens1 snooker

[h4nky93]

@Quigongdefens1 moar like a vuvuzela

[surrehue333]

@Quigongdefens1 why pool? doesnt really matter how loud its there.

[OrgrisVhal]

lol! if he could have just touched the red by accident and skip all that, he should have just done it from the start

[karimb001]

OSullivan look like Mr.bean

[Gellis2009]

so why does failing the black mean he got out of the miss sequence? is it because he didnt play a shot?

[Airblader]

@Gellis2009 He fouled a red by touching it. That is a foul, but no miss, since no shot has been executed. Seems like sort of a loop-hole.

[Gellis2009]

@Airblader that is one hell of a loop hole. like the commentator said, players could just pretend to move a ball to get out of a miss sequence. Crazy rule. cheers for the answer though mate

[Airblader]

@Gellis2009 Actually, they could not. If done on purpose, it can be ruled as unsportsmanlike conduct and thus lead to the loss of the frame/game. Although it would be hard to judge whether it was done on purpose or not.

[milsumla]

no applause for the last shot higgins' made

if it was ronnie, suck his dick immediately

[milsumla]

why snooker is a joke, despite its difficulty

[smitty3919]

Mr Bean?

[deelodon1]

it looks like ronnie didnt do a foul he just sed it so he can get out of the situation lool

[KingOfClay]

This is like watching cricket. What the heck is going on?

[AAlonEBoYY]

ทำไมไม่ยิงดำ อะ

[su3mus1cz]

@AAlonEBoYY ยิงได้ยิงไปเเล้ว ฟ..

[majkel691]

Ronnie:) moj mistrz:) zanim przestalem grac...:/

[JohnRagoon]

What a Lovely fellow that John Higgins is, a total credit to the game.

[guitarplayer2434]

.... i have no idea whats going on....

[13vafanculo]

not even them know the rules, and this is one of the best the british get to any sport lol bunch of declined cunts.

[ahmadalialkhalde29]

خراي عليكم وعلى لعبكم

[HeVoNify]

why am i watching snooker?

[WeMissYouChris]

@HeVoNify cause it´s a fucking great game :D

[kavitup]

i say if you on a color and foul on a color. you stay on the color till you hit a color simple i think doesn't matter what the foul is.

[ForgeableGamer]

7:36 fuck the referee

[MikkaMakkaMo0]

Snooker players have always been honest, this miss rule 100% of snooker players were against. It's a horrible rule.

They've opened a can of worms in some ways. Players can deliberately foul to avoid repeating shots in these situations. Very clever!

[yilmarxn]

esos marikas son muy tesos

[wilsh6969]

this is why snooker is gay lol

[939abbas]

If u commit a foul, your opponent can make you play the same shot thrice hoping for more fouls = points

[iamevildoing]

Can someone explain this to me? Why does the referee keep replacing it and why does he get to try again? Not trolling, genuinely curious :)

[mikeymandem]

I don't know much about snooker, can someone explain why he is allowed to keep attempting the shot? Thanks.

[TONYCOV881]

@mikeymandem if the player doesnt hit the ball he intends to hit the ref calls a miss meaning isnt a good enough attempt his opponent can ask the ref to replace the ball, or he can carry on from where the balls ended up.

[kwadwoagyei]

Ronnie is the all time best, keep it up.

[Tikeslar]

Such frames make me sad :(

[DisturbedV7]

john higgins is a fucking pig cheater anyway

i dont like ronnies arrogance but higgins is a fucking twat

[TJB147]

Ronnie's face at 6:28

[ouxxxxxx]

5:51... referee is touching the red ball when he is checking out the touching situation..

[ewanthug]

is that should be 3 times on foul ? i was so confused. Please someone explain to me.

[MrBlackoralive]

@ewanthug No the rule on 3 misses in a row then the frame gets given away is only if you have a clear straight path to make contact with the ball and you decide to play the shot another way. Most common when trying to nestle on a red when you are struggling to get the cue ball back to baulk

[ewanthug]

@MrBlackoralive okay now i clearly understand .. thank you so much for your explanation . this is very weird situation, i never see some attempt that takes like more than six, is that refferee decision on this video? i mean when ronnie's attempt? and after ronnie then higgins,why higgins straight out to blue?is that a foul on blue?

[MrBlackoralive]

@ewanthug Thats ok no worries. It is an odd situation. The reason the referee let it continue and take 6 attempts was because ronnie had an easy colour to hit than the brown or yellow (the blue which was a one cushion escape) but ronnie picked the harder shot to not leave a red therefore it was called a miss . The reason Higgins didn't foul is when the cue ball is touching a red, you simply have to hit the cue ball away from the red (it doesnt matter what colour ball you hit afterwards)

[ewanthug]

@MrBlackoralive okay, when higgins hit the blue.. i get it! haha i see that the cue ball touch the red already! wow.. should focus on that more.. wait a minute, if player miss the ball colour after red, then the cue ball is placing back at the position when they are miss? damn. have u watch the WAR part 6 ronnie and jimmy when ronnie cue ball stuck at pink?damn miss foul4-4- and then 6!! its 3 times! different than this situation. thanks brother! i'm such an noob . :) peace from Malaysia

[MrBlackoralive]

And yes it was the referee who decides in the end which shot is the easier and would therefore call a miss on if the referee knows ronnie isnt taking the easier shot which he could hit or get closer too at least. Its usually called a miss no matter how close you get to the object ball even if its the easiest to hit. I think only in extreme circumstances would the referee give it simply as a foul and leave the balls as they are.

[lennonpolo]

Who won the frame?

[cyshtoph]

CTRL+Z

CTRL+Z

CTRL+Z

[Bossiiiii]

weird situation occurred when someone fixed the game....

[DaveHification]

One of the things amateurs and non players should recognise is that playing on new cloth causes sidespin on the cueball to slide.. . meaning that playing on a new surface is a hell of a lot harder than your regular club cloth. Harsh on Ronnie here.

[DaveHification]

The 'miss' rule in snooker is lame, Ronnie rightly took advantage and deliberately fouled to gain his own advantage over an unfair rule. But the damage was already done

[jardantuan]

"I know we're in metric now. I'm a dinosaur."

[katasinEX]

reyes wouldve done this in one shot lol

[kjm5448]

why does he keep getting to retake the shot? that confuses me.

[aguirreruru]

what is this???

[alanthe2]

John Virgo: Failing to make Snooker commentary more exciting since 1994...

[michaelsiaw]

wait,i thought the cue ball is touching the red?if it's a touching ball,i thought u could any how u want with/without contacting any other balls at all?

[scottwlfc]

It can't have been a foul and a miss when he touched the red, because he didn't take his shot, so he didn't miss, therefore it was only a foul, and there was no miss.

[NEWTIP]

Did Ronnie realy foul by touching a red?

Did he foul at all?

Is calling a foul a foul?

Ronnie called a foul on himself.

The video does not seem to pick it up.

If Roonnie did foul, I think it was more likely on the black..

Would you tell the ref if you touched the black?

[kremmen64]

@AntiFanBoy1 ronnie cheating?, more like higgin's is the match fixing scumbag who should be banned for life.

[tapuzronko]

because there wasn't a shot its a technical foul and not a miss foul. therefore he needs to hit the red. and since its a touching ball, hitting the blue wasn't a foul because the white touched the red prior to the shot.

[MrHarith99]

why this haa ~~~

[simdim48]

i dont understand why ronnie didnt nominate the black and just hit it against the right hand side cushion back onto the black.??

[GreenApple968]

@simdim48 Because if he did that he'd probably leave a red on.

[tonywsmith2]

how boring is this?

[xFRAGxMOVIESx]

@stevenbeattie11 and leave a red on when john is 1 Frame away from final ?

[xFRAGxMOVIESx]

tbh he could pick the cue ball up and put it anywhere he wants ... loose 4 points and gain 30000 of the other play makin fouls

[wesleymark95]

dam its soo cool

[Bossiiiii]

wow this is so clear

[karma1905]

read the sub (transcribe) @ 0:49

LOL

[fitgirls14]

Ironic if Higgins thinks Ronnie is a cheat

[kishz]

Basically what the ref should have done was just move the red coz ronnie fouled it and let him continue the foul and miss shout as normal.

[BaToScAp227]

jan verhaas was right to not call a miss as a stroke had not been played, so it could not have been deemed a miss. i do think that after ronnies good fortune that john deservedly won the match.

[ilyabirman]

@BaToScAp227, I love how people use so where no cause-effect relationships exist :-)

[DLPBurke]

@BaToScAp227 The MIss rule is a load of rubbish.

[Bossiiiii]

can't he just touch a few red balls so the ref can't reposition all the balls ever again....

[Bossiiiii]

wow... i didn't finish the video when i made my comments... he did just what i suggested....

[HighFlyingDutchman]

wtf :D

lol

[trinomialtree]

and you can't even troll your way to popularity and recognition.

pathetic person you are, eh?

[bazmataz]

They should have just re-started the frame.

[Valdinsh]

bigconor

listen to what the commentator says at 06:53

''this means that a player can play a deliberate foul and get an advantage''

it explains the flaw of the rule and why it must be changed.

It was a foul and when it is a foul it is in the referees discretion to call a miss (then to replace the position). There is a rule that in certain situations a referee can make a judgment based on his view of the position. In this case Jan exercised this right - called a foul not foul and a miss.

[ilyabirman]

What exactly do you think has to be changed in the rules?

[Valdinsh]

Again I would recommend to watch the after match commentaries with J. Ver Haas.

The idea is to change the rule so that a player may not (if he is willing) intentionally to commit a foul while on a miss so that the other player would have to come at the table. This then means - if he commits a foul (such as touching the red in this case) during the succession of misses (at the point not physically making a shot), the opponent can choose to give the position back to the fouling player

[Valdinsh]

the position of course being restored as it was before committing that foul.

I hope I made my statement clear enough to understand, though it might sound a bit tangly.

[ilyabirman]

@Valdinsh Existing rules already cover this. Nowhere in definition of miss is said that it can only happen after a stroke. No need to change rules, it was a miss already! By the way, where can I watch J. Verhaas after match commentary?

[Punkpferd]

@ilyabirman: Yes the rule sais exactly this: The striker shall, to the best of his ability, endeavour to hit the ball on. If the referee considers the Rule infringed, he shall call FOUL AND A MISS unless only the Black remains on the table, or a situation exists where it is impossible to hit the ball on. In the latter case it must be assumed the striker is attempting to hit the ball on provided that he plays, directly or indirectly, in the direction of the Ball ON

So he has to strike ;)

[DLPBurke]

@Valdinsh People get advantage from fluke pots all the time, but no one seems to care about sorting it out.

[Valdinsh]

Thank you very much for the HQ video upload. It would have been nice to see the whole semi of this match uploaded in this HQ

Anyhow thank you for this very interesting and 'controversial' (so to speak) frame upload.

p.s. - Jan Ver Haas ruled absolutely right. A very professional decision making. Good match as well.

[bigconor]

@Valdinsh if jan made the right decision why did he then move the white when it wasnt a miss? the ref cant move the balls unless theres been a miss

[Valdinsh]

To make matter easier just check out the S. Davis interview with Jan where h explains why such decision was made.

It was then as a miss when Ronnie accidentally touched the black although he did not commit a shot (that is the flaw of the rule which will be discussed). Because the white ball wasn't in the exact position (it should be be touching the red) Jan moved it as he would position, replace balls after a miss.

[bigconor]

the ref made an absolute balls of this

[musicianlaurence]

It's easy to comment from the armchair.

[trinomialtree]

be thankful you have no balls then, moron.

[NXU693]

Wonderful video! Unfortunately i haven't watched this semi-final.