Season 3 dvd extras say that this episode was very rushed to get it ready for airing on tv hence the mistakes. Fantastic episode even with the silly mistakes.
I'm confused on the ships that are in the battle. Churchill and Alexander, versus Agrippa, Roanoke, and the one Churchill collides into?? But then Sheridan messages the Roanoke when its Agrippa that is shown to blow up.
@jutau My interpretation is that Sheridan simply got the ship names mixed up, what with everything going on (fighting your own brothers-in-arms has to be emotionally jarring, nevermind the chaos of battle). Real-world explanation? Probably someone goofed up when doing the special effects.
1:55 ... I think it's neat that you see someone rush in with a hand-held fire extinguisher - kind of a neat little detail regarding the basic small details that would be going on during such a situation.
president clarke was part of the NWO of this age, obama is part of our NWO and shit like this is going to go down for real within a year martial law the whole bit
@icanadian18 People have said the exact same thing.....10 years ago. Funny how, like the Doomsday prophecies the date keeps being moved up by a year or so.
@MrPenobe Your opinion certainly differs. There are millions of us who DO like Babylon 5 - a LOT more than anything star trek, star wars or the arse-fucked battlestar galactica ever held.
@Gallowell like i said others may like it, Battlestar Galactica was actually quite successful and there actors where well known for playing there roles well, i hated Star Trek myself, Loved Farscape, Stargate SG-1,Atlantis,and Universe. i honestly wish there where more show like these ill give Babylon another go but i'm sure my Opinion of it will stay the same.
I dont know how much you watched but season one is pretty bad and mostly worldbuilding and character development. Season two is where the show picks up and gradually builds up to season three and four which were the best seasons any TV show ever had.
@Forfeitdemeanor i may give it another chance because i love shows like this just didn't get into this one. i loved all Stargates, Farscape, Battlestar Galactica, where all great in my Opinion. wish there was more like them.
@georgeowain Churchill took them out offscreen, thats why shes so badly damaged. They wanted to include that fight in the episode but didnt have enough budget, this ep pushed B5s budget to the limit as it was. Pity though it would have been one hell of a fight.
WOW! I'd forgotten just how awesome B5 was. I'm going to watch the entire series again, it's been almost 15 years since I've seen an episode. Thank God for Netflix.
@AlphanPeter I most wholeheartedly agree. Especially, in my opinion, with the Narns defending at the very site that is being boarded when Garibaldi was looking for defenses and they wouldn't have that.
my favourite series. When the Earth/B5 war broke out that just made it compelling viewing. I wonder if anything like this would be allowed on t.v. nowadays what with the governments trying to control everything we see/hear/do?
@Darr1066 Just the opposite for me. When the Shadow War (which was great, except for the ending) ended, B5 turned into just another human vs human show. Not interested.
Nothing special about paranoia and civil war. Our history is rife with them.
A very powerful scene. And yes I have to agree. Thank you for not killing it will a soundtrack. You need the dialouge and the explosions to really feel the battle
@TheKemTV Churchill took them out offscreen, thats why shes so badly damaged. They wanted to include that fight in the episode but didnt have enough budget, this ep pushed B5s budget to the limit as it was. Pity though it would have been one hell of a fight.
@asunarocks69 But the way they framed it in the episode there's far more power in suddenly seeing the Churchill so badly mauled, and then that final gut wrenching exchange between Ryan and Hiroshi.
There's the one clip from The Lost Tales where you get to see Warlocks in combat. It's one hell of a scene, and worthy of the Babylon 5 legacy of how to produce kinetic, high octane space combat.
It's too bad we never got to see an Omega class destroyer fire her missiles. All of those missile tubes on the sides, and they never were used in a battle. :)
The space combat scenes in the show are spectacular. When a ship gets hit its takes damage, somethimes terrible damage. Like when the Alexander flanked the Agrippa and cut it open from amidship to bow. Not like Star Trek where all shots bounce off the shielding, perhaps leaving a few blackened spots on the hull. The Omega class destroyer is a beast, in the episode where they attack Earth the Agamemnon loses most of its bow and is still capable of moving and fighting.
Christopher Franke really made alot of this show. Some people watched it just for the music. I liked the idea of bringing in Chen for Crusade, but getting rid of Franke was a terrible terrible idea in retrospect and that probably killed B5
In my opinion, special effects are only 20% of how good a sci fi story is. Too much eye candy can even harm the story. Lucas ran into this with Phantom Menace. He had a bunch of new FX toys and played with them to the fullest extent and as far as I am concerned that movie blew giant chunks of half digested bantha meat. What happened to the story? Character developement? Good acting? Believeable script? Effective plot devices? Good plot twists? Raw emotion?
@Deke101 I think this argument is spot on. Look at the success of Firefly here, compared to B5, no aliens and less fx the focus was on plot, character, and issues that focused on the eternal truths and challenges of being human.
@sukneh I would agree that Firefly was a much better story, but I would not agree that it was any more successful. It was canned before one complete season anf barely got the approval for one movie where B5 went for 5 seasons and got to complete it's story AND get, what, 4 video movies?
@aruging people - Keep in mind there are such things as production budgets. Do you have the figures on how little JMS had to work with; have you looked at how MUCH ST has; they like have their own DEPARTMENT in Paramount to develop that stuff when it was in development plus Paramount just opens the money hole and tosses more in. GR made a good series (look at the STs that HE produced and compare them then compare DS9 to B5 since by all rights you cant compare a SHIP to a STATION...)
@dkerris Here Here. It wasnt just the special effectsa dn groundbreaking CGI, but great story plots and character development. you gave a damm about the characters. I dont think we knew how good we had it.
@dkerris I agree... I feel the creator of B5 knew how the 'world of secret politics' works. Elements like "Night Watch" (allegedly a helpful group but really a control group unmentioned in the glossy pamphlets handed out with a smile). It shows how the desire for control and power can cause such problems (eg. the assassination of the president and convenient promotion of the vice pres to power). It also reveals how various groups even within one society may be vying for power (Psi Corps).
I don't understand all the rambling about bad CGI. These special effects were great for the time, and they still look pretty good today. For one I love how the fighters actually fly like you'd expect a spaceship to fly. Also they took artificial gravity into account, which is why some of the larger ships have rotating parts. There's a lot of attention to detail, and they never had any bull science like Star Trek usually does when explaining something technical.
@Imaculata I for one think that Babylon 5's CGI doesn't even try when compared to Star Trek's, Star Wars, and even the reimagined BSG. So many other shows are still loved today because the imagery looked decent and believable and stunning no matter what time frame you look at it from, but B5, I'm sorry but they could've done way better in the effects department- to me, this is the bare minimum...
@RougeHawksClanRewind "doesn't even try?" dude, how old are you? You realize that B5 premiered in the early 90's right? They were using some of the best computers of the day, available to television productions. Those FX looked great by the standards of the day, and those guys had more imagination and ambition than anything the Trek guys did. B5 was the first sci-fi show to do fleet battles....after B5, every fleet battle on every other show was meh......been there done that.
@JimmyDaKoik I've yet to find a show that's done Space Battles as well as Babylon 5 portrayed them, and no where near as intense. Star Treks problem was it was hamstrung by it's own universe and lore, and even in something on the size of Deep Space 9's 'Sacrifice of Angels' it felt like they'd tried to play catch up with the B5, even to the point they included fighters.
BSG battles felt like a woman who'd learned to live on her looks - pretty but ultimately empty.
the earth alliance remindsme of TEC in sins of solar empire game, relyings on plasma rounds, railguns, and particle cannons, no fancy energy shields( to a large extend) just really tough alloy armor
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This was a sad excuse for a battle- Terrible CGI and corny music. You can find better graphics in todays video games. I had to actually TRY just to feel the emotion that the scene was trying to convey. I mean even Star Trek does a better job in those fields and making it seem like a real space battle...
Sounds like you just don' like B5. And Star Trek "does a better job in those fields", please. Love Star Trek, but their CGI is no better and they stole ideas from B5.
@elgatoshadow Could you elaborate on the ideas stolen from B5 by Star Trek? Because honestly there's only so much you can do with two shows that build on NEW stories each episode (with some carrying over of course)...it's only a matter of time before they make similar concepts. And before you think I'm some sort of bias trekkie - Im a well- rounded nerd with prefrences going from S- Wars to S- Trek, from Old BSG to New BSG, from Doctor Who to Eve, from Farscape to Babylon 5...
@Fjsouth I could imagine it being a horribly butchered mess. Babylon 5 is a classic TV show, there is no reason to "redo" the CGI, because you can never top what they did with story and characters.
Agreed there, it would be like re-writing Tolstoy's War and Peace, and adding in a few images to bring it into the dumbed down 21st century. B5 is a classic piece of fiction, it was exceptionally well written and acted, and had exceptional SFX for the time. To do ANYTHING to this would only tarnish something that stands out, and shines bright among among the "stars" of space fiction. NUFF SAID.
@blagger56 JMS has said multiple time he'd like to take the original computer files and re-render them at HD. The graphics were originally 704x480 (on a Commodore Amiga 7 megahertz), which is clearly inferior for today's television. I hope JMS does re-render at the higher resolution
.
And since it's HIS show he can do whatever he pleases
@harleykman Except ALL of the models and textures were wiped in one enormous fuck up.
When they did Lost Tales, they had to use fan-made models (which is why everything looks so weird). No company is going to rebuild all that stuff, re-animate and re-render dozens of hours of footage with nothing to go on except the original footage.
@Danny77uk Actually they used the original models. A computer company had been given a copy of WB's database for work on a game, and so JMS used that backup to create Legend of the Rangers
.
As for recreating stuff, today's computers are about 1200 times faster than the original Amigas that had been used for the show. And the software's improved a lot. Recreating everything would be a piece of cake. I'd do it if someone gave me money
@harleykman "Actually they used the original models."
I don't know where you heard that. I have the DVD and in the special features they specifically say that they had to use fan-made models because the originals were lost.
"used that backup to create Legend of the Rangers"
I don't remember seeing ANY original B5 models in Rangers. Well maybe the Raider but that was very, very simple.
QUOTE: "We had given the models to Sierra to create a Babylon 5 computer game. They kindly returned the models for use in LotR." It helps if you learn to listen to the Creator of the Show when he speaks, instead of calling your fellow fans liars
@harleykman "today's computers are about 1200 times faster than the original Amigas "
Amigas were only uses for the first season; they switched to PCs in season 2. Anyway even though todays machines render faster, it still takes a LOT of work and time to create FX shots. I work in the film industry and most of the time is spent in post adding FX.
Even if you had the assets, you'd have to recompose all the original scenes, battle sounds..everything. Not gonna happen.
So by YOUR reckoning that CGI upgrade for Star Trek never happened. It's too hard and could not possibly have happened. Nor will it ever happen for B5
@harleykman I have the remastered TOS boxset. If you think you think the TOS graphics and scenes that had to be created are anything like the complexity of those of even the first season of B5, you're a fucking idiot.
@Danny77uk Yes they switched to PCs and Macs, but they were not really any faster than the Amiga 3000s or 4000s. The Macs of 1994 used the same 68040 CPU at 40 MHz, and the PCs still had 486s or Pentiums at 66 MHz. So we're still talking about modern computers having ~400 times faster rendering
@harleykman I doesn't matter how much faster the machines are. Someone has to sit in front of one and re-do all this stuff. It would takes YEARS for a small group to accomplish this.
@Danny77uk true, but I think it's possible. just keep all the sounds and internal visual, only edit the exterior cutscenes to match the original sounds, you can remake the movie with newer graphics without taking away from the original show.
good scene. But the special effects haven't aged well on this show. The CGI looks like PS2 quality. imagine what they could do with today's graphic engines.
@commandox20 i bed to differ,,,I'd say current gneration consoles would be more than capable of doing this in real time, theres a lot going on but by todays standards its a bit basic graphically, I rather doubt the wii would manage it but the 360 and the ps3 certainly could
@commandox20 oh they could, this the polygon counts in this pre-rendered movie are nothing compared to what a console can push out in real time nowadays, you only have to look at a wel desgned game to see that processing power thes days allows for far better looking stuff in real time, I'd name examples but the list wont fit
I think you could say that not just for England, but for all of the countries of the Commonwealth. Brits fight hard, but if you add us Aussies into the fight, then there wouldn't be an enemy left to surrender!
yeah i agree 42underscore hard to believe they were done on a commodore amiga 500 i used to have one of those when they first came out in the mid 80's
How did Bush manage to make so many US soldiers loyal to him?
Easy, the officers and soldiers of the armed forces (current or future) swore an oath to the President. However, most people see a narrow vision of the true. Do you think (even today) we see the true horrors that happen? We get media tidbits. The Babylon 5 crew was able to see a much larger scope than most.
I have no doubt, President Clark had a great propoganda and media campaign plus the Psicorp
Agreed. One more thing is the inherent aspect of every true soldier: if he can be convinced that his orders are aimed at defending his nation he will set the world on fire.
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Officers and Soldiers never swear an oath to the president, they swear an oath to the Constitution. There was recently some dispute over Obama possibly wanting to change their oath to be directly to the president for our protection.
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Actually, yes, his administration made the suggestion. It was on the table,and it when it was discovered it was immediately scrutinised into oblivion.
one of the greatest ever sci-fi battles in the history of television, the sheer emotion that knowing everything was on the line. It was do or die and that a quarter of a million lives were at stake...
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@jamesdemann The "greatest"? That was terrible! It was hard to feel the "sheer emotion" while I cringing at that CGI! And I seriously can't believe you think that THAT beats Battlestar Galactica (the new series)! If you mean the old series then I understand, but if your bashing on the new then you've got no taste in Sci-Fi!
Have you actually bothered to watch the show? Do you know what was on the line in this scene. No you probarbly haven't because your mind is concentrating on the CGI, which means you can't watch a show for the story, you just want it too look amazing, which was all what modern day BSG was all about, no substance just flash bang wallop.
You are looking at CGi that was pionnering, ffs the show is over 20 years old now.. And my taste in sci-fi is vastly better than yours!
@jamesdemann Well you certainly judge hard! I can't take a show seriously unless it has some effort put into it's realism department, (no matter how good the story is) And so, using the same judgement on you inflicted on me, HAVE YOU EVEN WATCHED BSG? Many people think BSG's downfall was on the huge EMPHASIS on SUBSTANCE!! The show focuses so much on believability and fleshy real characters that even the actual Sci- Fi and battles are spread out. Heck, even Star Trek does better than B5!
@RougeHawksClanRewind Star Trek does better then B5 at space battles? The same star trek that uses warp speed (impossible) and non newtonian ship movement? (Oh look mum, the ship can fly like an aeroplane!) Where all the ships look like they were developed by Ikea?
Show some respect to a show that wiped the floor with Star Trek when it came to show how space battles should be done, and provided the first believable template for how Sci-fi Earth forces would engage in combat.
@ScreamingTc Hey I rate Sci-Fi shows based on believability, realism, coolness, and style. So many shows have made each of my catagories, but B5 falls short. You seem very biased considering it was probably your first Sci-Fi show so in your mind "Nothing can be better". If Star Trek in your mind can't be better then B5 then the New BSG is, or Star Wars, or even STARGATE!
@RougeHawksClanRewind Erm...no. My first sci-fi was actually Doctor Who and V: The mini-series, so please don't be condescending if you can at all possibly help it.
Stargate is ok in Small doses, but there's something about it that annoys the hell out of me. BSG had ok space battles, but it only occasionally felt like tactics were thought about by the production crew. Star Wars is just plain ol' fun. Star Trek had the occasional good episode but it just feels drawn out and lethargic.
@RougeHawksClanRewind what...the same nuBSG where characters acted out of character if it suited that weeks story? Or where there were duplicates of Earth? Or where all the crap writing and logic was explained away by "God did it"?The one that told us "and they have a plan" but in reality they didn't? That nuBSG? Without it's "shock" moments, the show was melodramtic garbage.
Great video. Would have been still better if you had kept it rolling through Delenn's entrance and Earthforce's final retreat.
PKTrekGirl 1 week ago
Season 3 dvd extras say that this episode was very rushed to get it ready for airing on tv hence the mistakes. Fantastic episode even with the silly mistakes.
turokxbox 3 weeks ago
anyone notices how he orders targeting solution on the roanoke and later destroys the agrippa?
mistake in the scene? ;D
roanoke is hit and destroyed by churchill at 2:26 :)
JheakrynaKyAlur 1 month ago
Goosebumps. Every. Single.Time.
Sinvisigoth 1 month ago
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Pour les amoureux de Babylon 5, il existe un jeu par navigateur en tour par tour gratuit, Babylon 5 le jeu en ligne sur skyvador com/pbem
skyvador 2 months ago
"Babylon control to ROANOKE, your ship is out of control! Surrender and let us bring on prisoners, we promise safe passage to..."
The AGRIPPA blows up! wtf
starflame34 2 months ago in playlist starflame34's favorites
We never get to see those big plasma mortars on the Omega fire.
thefreeflowification 3 months ago
Human on human violence...when will it end?
jeremyprimrose 4 months ago 2
I'm confused on the ships that are in the battle. Churchill and Alexander, versus Agrippa, Roanoke, and the one Churchill collides into?? But then Sheridan messages the Roanoke when its Agrippa that is shown to blow up.
jutau 4 months ago
@jutau My interpretation is that Sheridan simply got the ship names mixed up, what with everything going on (fighting your own brothers-in-arms has to be emotionally jarring, nevermind the chaos of battle). Real-world explanation? Probably someone goofed up when doing the special effects.
Raguleader 3 months ago
@Raguleader I know what that is like... post production and you see all your mistakes. heh. =D
jutau 3 months ago
@jutau
several errors in that scene.
1.They had Sheridan say the wrong name.
2.They show Churchill getting blasted by a Star Fury but cut to the bridge of the Alexander for the shaking and damage from the attack.
The Roanoke gets rammed by the Churchill and both are destroyed. The Agrippa gets broadsided by Alexander and double teamed by B5 and is destroyed.
Where are the Hyperion class vessels????
Stubbee 2 months ago 2
Nova class and Omega class is offcially an Earth Alliance designated ram-ship
lanunselat 5 months ago
"Bring us in closer to the enemy."
"How close?"
"Right down their throats!"
ooOOooo goose bumps!!
spoodie69 5 months ago
The show had also other deep themes outside of politics, from racism to transsexuality.
Triarity 6 months ago
1:55 ... I think it's neat that you see someone rush in with a hand-held fire extinguisher - kind of a neat little detail regarding the basic small details that would be going on during such a situation.
pugcasso 6 months ago
Bring us in closer to the enemy
How close?
Right down their throats!
Krellnus 6 months ago
president clarke was part of the NWO of this age, obama is part of our NWO and shit like this is going to go down for real within a year martial law the whole bit
icanadian18 8 months ago
@icanadian18 People have said the exact same thing.....10 years ago. Funny how, like the Doomsday prophecies the date keeps being moved up by a year or so.
hildemel 7 months ago in playlist Babylon 5
@icanadian18 Do you wear a tin foil hat?
TheBlackSpider82 6 months ago
looks like some down right horrible acting in this show :( to bad it could possibly be good if they did it right. my opinion others may like it.
MrPenobe 8 months ago
@MrPenobe Your opinion certainly differs. There are millions of us who DO like Babylon 5 - a LOT more than anything star trek, star wars or the arse-fucked battlestar galactica ever held.
Gallowell 7 months ago 2
@Gallowell like i said others may like it, Battlestar Galactica was actually quite successful and there actors where well known for playing there roles well, i hated Star Trek myself, Loved Farscape, Stargate SG-1,Atlantis,and Universe. i honestly wish there where more show like these ill give Babylon another go but i'm sure my Opinion of it will stay the same.
MrPenobe 7 months ago
@MrPenobe
I dont know how much you watched but season one is pretty bad and mostly worldbuilding and character development. Season two is where the show picks up and gradually builds up to season three and four which were the best seasons any TV show ever had.
Forfeitdemeanor 5 months ago
@Forfeitdemeanor i may give it another chance because i love shows like this just didn't get into this one. i loved all Stargates, Farscape, Battlestar Galactica, where all great in my Opinion. wish there was more like them.
MrPenobe 5 months ago
What happened to the Hyperion Cruisers that accompanied the Omega ships in the first wave?
georgeowain 8 months ago
@georgeowain cut out ;). The episode was to long or costed to much space on the video or something like that.
Soldierlozer 8 months ago
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@georgeowain Churchill took them out offscreen, thats why shes so badly damaged. They wanted to include that fight in the episode but didnt have enough budget, this ep pushed B5s budget to the limit as it was. Pity though it would have been one hell of a fight.
asunarocks69 7 months ago
3 viewers wouldn't know good science fiction if they saw it.
TheFamilySlitheen 8 months ago
WOW! I'd forgotten just how awesome B5 was. I'm going to watch the entire series again, it's been almost 15 years since I've seen an episode. Thank God for Netflix.
Great post, thank you. Thumbs up.
OldCorpBLT13 9 months ago
One of the greatest sci-fi battle scenes ever.
DarthShebs 9 months ago 2
Space battles that actually mean something to the story. What a concept.
greyeyed123 10 months ago 12
Wonderful show.
SamusDrake 11 months ago
Best episode in the show.
The shit well-and-truely hits the fan - everything about the show changes.
LazarusRemains 11 months ago
Bring us close in for the enemy...
how close?
right down their throats
best fucking line
JheakrynaKyAlur 11 months ago 3
one of best episode made
AlphanPeter 1 year ago
@AlphanPeter I most wholeheartedly agree. Especially, in my opinion, with the Narns defending at the very site that is being boarded when Garibaldi was looking for defenses and they wouldn't have that.
Gruumsh4 11 months ago
@AlphanPeter Most of the time, the best episodes are those without any complicated space battles - a View From the Gallery, for example
Varrenify 11 months ago
I love Babylon 5! ^^
Thanks for Upload! :D
MrKantaru 1 year ago
@ScreamingTc
ya i saw it loved the part two but i wish we coul se more
babylon5lord 1 year ago
my favourite series. When the Earth/B5 war broke out that just made it compelling viewing. I wonder if anything like this would be allowed on t.v. nowadays what with the governments trying to control everything we see/hear/do?
Darr1066 1 year ago
@Darr1066 Just the opposite for me. When the Shadow War (which was great, except for the ending) ended, B5 turned into just another human vs human show. Not interested.
Nothing special about paranoia and civil war. Our history is rife with them.
ORCA4312 1 year ago
at 1:06 you can see a fighter attack the Churchill. But when you see bridge view, your suddenly on the Alexander. Small mistake I guess :p.
Soldierlozer 1 year ago
A very powerful scene. And yes I have to agree. Thank you for not killing it will a soundtrack. You need the dialouge and the explosions to really feel the battle
CaptKJaneway 1 year ago
what happend with the hyperion cruisers?
TheKemTV 1 year ago
@TheKemTV They were destroyed offscreen. Thats why the two loyal nova ships were not as heavily damaged compared to the Alexander and the Churchill.
GillikMisused 1 year ago
@TheKemTV Churchill took them out offscreen, thats why shes so badly damaged. They wanted to include that fight in the episode but didnt have enough budget, this ep pushed B5s budget to the limit as it was. Pity though it would have been one hell of a fight.
asunarocks69 1 year ago
@asunarocks69 But the way they framed it in the episode there's far more power in suddenly seeing the Churchill so badly mauled, and then that final gut wrenching exchange between Ryan and Hiroshi.
ScreamingTc 1 year ago
ok comparing to the sci fi today.. this is actually really good made.. great job.. thumb this up if you think the same
davebatista221 1 year ago
@davebatista221 Yeah!
AVNCIALHPI 1 year ago
@davebatista221 B5 was great show. Better than the SF made today - now that the two good Stargate shows are gone.
ORCA4312 1 year ago 3
Loved this show when B5 went maverick. It was the closest thing to a StarWars tv series.
SamusDrake 1 year ago
well i still want to see the warlock slug it out with other ships
babylon5lord 1 year ago
@babylon5lord
There's the one clip from The Lost Tales where you get to see Warlocks in combat. It's one hell of a scene, and worthy of the Babylon 5 legacy of how to produce kinetic, high octane space combat.
ScreamingTc 1 year ago
@ScreamingTc A shame the whole scene in The Lost Tales ony goes for about 25 seconds and is a dream sequence of Sheridan's.
Varrenify 11 months ago
@Varrenify Sadly we have to take what we can get. Still a damned sight better then most Sci-Fi combat too :)
ScreamingTc 9 months ago
It's too bad we never got to see an Omega class destroyer fire her missiles. All of those missile tubes on the sides, and they never were used in a battle. :)
imsiriustube 1 year ago
@imsiriustube I've heard of them. They're those red circles the Ivonovas starfury colided in 2:42
AVNCIALHPI 1 year ago
@imsiriustube
I thought the same thing. The extra cobra bays and the "chin" cannons were never used either.
razorburn645 10 months ago
The space combat scenes in the show are spectacular. When a ship gets hit its takes damage, somethimes terrible damage. Like when the Alexander flanked the Agrippa and cut it open from amidship to bow. Not like Star Trek where all shots bounce off the shielding, perhaps leaving a few blackened spots on the hull. The Omega class destroyer is a beast, in the episode where they attack Earth the Agamemnon loses most of its bow and is still capable of moving and fighting.
AlbertaWildman 1 year ago 3
anyone know where i can get a model of one of those omega-class ships?
spontaneoussam2 1 year ago
@spontaneoussam2 Download "The Babylon Project". It's for free.
MobiusDragon89 1 year ago
Christopher Franke really made alot of this show. Some people watched it just for the music. I liked the idea of bringing in Chen for Crusade, but getting rid of Franke was a terrible terrible idea in retrospect and that probably killed B5
d3p3ch3mod3 1 year ago
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" One of the best SCI-FI series ever with messages that STILL hold true. "
right on, propably The Best Sci-Fi Show ever
Nuthineverworks 1 year ago
Babylon 5 is one of the most gripping series ever. This is Sci-Fi at its best. Thanks for posting this!
tembwbam99 1 year ago
hello all im a babylon fan and to be honest iv only seen seasons 4 and 5 , cant afford buying seasons 1 2 and 3 boxsets where can i watch online??
thanks
Babylon5fan100 1 year ago
yey!! thumbs up for the original vid with no stupid music added
silaku 1 year ago 109
In my opinion, special effects are only 20% of how good a sci fi story is. Too much eye candy can even harm the story. Lucas ran into this with Phantom Menace. He had a bunch of new FX toys and played with them to the fullest extent and as far as I am concerned that movie blew giant chunks of half digested bantha meat. What happened to the story? Character developement? Good acting? Believeable script? Effective plot devices? Good plot twists? Raw emotion?
Deke101 1 year ago
@Deke101 Shows like Doctor Who and even Blakes' Seven prove that FX are more like 10% of a good show.
ShadowSonic2 1 year ago
@ShadowSonic2 Well, good FX make me want to go see it on the big screen, otherwise, I usually wait for video.
Deke101 1 year ago
@Deke101 I think this argument is spot on. Look at the success of Firefly here, compared to B5, no aliens and less fx the focus was on plot, character, and issues that focused on the eternal truths and challenges of being human.
sukneh 1 year ago
@sukneh I would agree that Firefly was a much better story, but I would not agree that it was any more successful. It was canned before one complete season anf barely got the approval for one movie where B5 went for 5 seasons and got to complete it's story AND get, what, 4 video movies?
Deke101 1 year ago
@aruging people - Keep in mind there are such things as production budgets. Do you have the figures on how little JMS had to work with; have you looked at how MUCH ST has; they like have their own DEPARTMENT in Paramount to develop that stuff when it was in development plus Paramount just opens the money hole and tosses more in. GR made a good series (look at the STs that HE produced and compare them then compare DS9 to B5 since by all rights you cant compare a SHIP to a STATION...)
jhina5422 1 year ago
Japanes commander = kamikaze
One of best battle in Babylon 5.
blacksun84 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
People, wake up!!! You are not kids anymore and this show SUCKS!!!
MrJoromekiq1 1 year ago
@MrJoromekiq1 Hello, I am 39 and I still watch this show on DVD with my kids. It's a great story so go piss up a rope.
Deke101 1 year ago 3
@Deke101 You sir are now my official hero for that response.
ScreamingTc 1 year ago
@Deke101 Hell, hon I'm 43 and still think this show should be required viewing.
It really shows politics, fear-mongering, and general idiocy in authority run amok.
Things we all should be vigilant of, and stand against.
dkerris 1 year ago 72
@dkerris Here Here. It wasnt just the special effectsa dn groundbreaking CGI, but great story plots and character development. you gave a damm about the characters. I dont think we knew how good we had it.
Bladestar7 1 year ago
@dkerris How true, the thing is that I can understand both sides, suppose you are a general
commanding a force and your civilian superiors are crazy, do you obey them or do you commit
mutiny? Even if they are crazy they are still your superiors, one of the things that made this show
so good is that it made you think.
svartekaptenen 1 year ago
@dkerris I agree... I feel the creator of B5 knew how the 'world of secret politics' works. Elements like "Night Watch" (allegedly a helpful group but really a control group unmentioned in the glossy pamphlets handed out with a smile). It shows how the desire for control and power can cause such problems (eg. the assassination of the president and convenient promotion of the vice pres to power). It also reveals how various groups even within one society may be vying for power (Psi Corps).
pugcasso 6 months ago 3
It is very smart and unique. Unlike Star Trek.
jiveturkey25 6 months ago 3
@dkerris Why do you think this show was shut down... twice?
Leuthesius 4 months ago
@Leuthesius If the sheeple were aware of how they're being used, they'd be less cooperative.
Can't have that.
But the seed has been planted. It may yet grow into something liberating.
dkerris 3 months ago
@dkerris Nicely said.
BigDiamondCutter 2 weeks ago in playlist Liked videos
Don't be a fool Smith . . .
paul7494 1 year ago
I don't understand all the rambling about bad CGI. These special effects were great for the time, and they still look pretty good today. For one I love how the fighters actually fly like you'd expect a spaceship to fly. Also they took artificial gravity into account, which is why some of the larger ships have rotating parts. There's a lot of attention to detail, and they never had any bull science like Star Trek usually does when explaining something technical.
Imaculata 1 year ago 2
@Imaculata I for one think that Babylon 5's CGI doesn't even try when compared to Star Trek's, Star Wars, and even the reimagined BSG. So many other shows are still loved today because the imagery looked decent and believable and stunning no matter what time frame you look at it from, but B5, I'm sorry but they could've done way better in the effects department- to me, this is the bare minimum...
RougeHawksClanRewind 1 year ago
@RougeHawksClanRewind "doesn't even try?" dude, how old are you? You realize that B5 premiered in the early 90's right? They were using some of the best computers of the day, available to television productions. Those FX looked great by the standards of the day, and those guys had more imagination and ambition than anything the Trek guys did. B5 was the first sci-fi show to do fleet battles....after B5, every fleet battle on every other show was meh......been there done that.
JimmyDaKoik 1 year ago 3
@JimmyDaKoik I've yet to find a show that's done Space Battles as well as Babylon 5 portrayed them, and no where near as intense. Star Treks problem was it was hamstrung by it's own universe and lore, and even in something on the size of Deep Space 9's 'Sacrifice of Angels' it felt like they'd tried to play catch up with the B5, even to the point they included fighters.
BSG battles felt like a woman who'd learned to live on her looks - pretty but ultimately empty.
ScreamingTc 1 year ago
Eve online rip off lol
Kaninerness 1 year ago
@Kaninerness you fail, babylon 5 came out way before Eve was made. but you probably already noticed that.
ImAFanOfTails 1 year ago
the earth alliance remindsme of TEC in sins of solar empire game, relyings on plasma rounds, railguns, and particle cannons, no fancy energy shields( to a large extend) just really tough alloy armor
Ltdeacon 1 year ago
Babylon 5 easily beats the new BSG. And the CGI is great. Just an excuss to try to make BSG sound better.
elgatoshadow 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This was a sad excuse for a battle- Terrible CGI and corny music. You can find better graphics in todays video games. I had to actually TRY just to feel the emotion that the scene was trying to convey. I mean even Star Trek does a better job in those fields and making it seem like a real space battle...
RougeHawksClanRewind 1 year ago
Sounds like you just don' like B5. And Star Trek "does a better job in those fields", please. Love Star Trek, but their CGI is no better and they stole ideas from B5.
elgatoshadow 1 year ago
@elgatoshadow Could you elaborate on the ideas stolen from B5 by Star Trek? Because honestly there's only so much you can do with two shows that build on NEW stories each episode (with some carrying over of course)...it's only a matter of time before they make similar concepts. And before you think I'm some sort of bias trekkie - Im a well- rounded nerd with prefrences going from S- Wars to S- Trek, from Old BSG to New BSG, from Doctor Who to Eve, from Farscape to Babylon 5...
RougeHawksClanRewind 1 year ago
Some of Ron Thornton and the Foundation imaging teams best work, in trek or B5.
emchamberlain 1 year ago
High quality sci fi even after more then 13 years? Not even 1 star trek movie/serie can beat b5.
lokoxxxxx 1 year ago
Isn't that the truth!!
elgatoshadow 1 year ago
less talk more BOOM and great video! LOVE this show. =D
RiceBowlBunny 1 year ago
You cut off the best part!
.
"Only one human has ever survived battle with the Minbari. HE is behind me. YOU are in front of me. If you value your lives BE somewhere else."
.
harleykman 1 year ago
I went and bought the box set of B5..............must have watched them all abou 6 times.
deskpot1 1 year ago
Fab episode!
borgduck 1 year ago
Has anyone noticed that in the 2 first seasons
the symbol for B5 was an olivebranch superimposed
on the B5 symbol later on that chnged to a sword and
a shield.
svartekaptenen 1 year ago
b5 best ever
AlexRaphaelMeschini 1 year ago
still a great show!! Can u imagine if they redid the show now with the cgi they have now compared to 10 years ago
Fjsouth 1 year ago
@Fjsouth I could imagine it being a horribly butchered mess. Babylon 5 is a classic TV show, there is no reason to "redo" the CGI, because you can never top what they did with story and characters.
commandox20 1 year ago
Agreed there, it would be like re-writing Tolstoy's War and Peace, and adding in a few images to bring it into the dumbed down 21st century. B5 is a classic piece of fiction, it was exceptionally well written and acted, and had exceptional SFX for the time. To do ANYTHING to this would only tarnish something that stands out, and shines bright among among the "stars" of space fiction. NUFF SAID.
blagger56 1 year ago 2
@blagger56 JMS has said multiple time he'd like to take the original computer files and re-render them at HD. The graphics were originally 704x480 (on a Commodore Amiga 7 megahertz), which is clearly inferior for today's television. I hope JMS does re-render at the higher resolution
.
And since it's HIS show he can do whatever he pleases
.
harleykman 1 year ago
@harleykman Except ALL of the models and textures were wiped in one enormous fuck up.
When they did Lost Tales, they had to use fan-made models (which is why everything looks so weird). No company is going to rebuild all that stuff, re-animate and re-render dozens of hours of footage with nothing to go on except the original footage.
Danny77uk 1 year ago
@Danny77uk Actually they used the original models. A computer company had been given a copy of WB's database for work on a game, and so JMS used that backup to create Legend of the Rangers
.
As for recreating stuff, today's computers are about 1200 times faster than the original Amigas that had been used for the show. And the software's improved a lot. Recreating everything would be a piece of cake. I'd do it if someone gave me money
.
harleykman 1 year ago
@harleykman "Actually they used the original models."
I don't know where you heard that. I have the DVD and in the special features they specifically say that they had to use fan-made models because the originals were lost.
"used that backup to create Legend of the Rangers"
I don't remember seeing ANY original B5 models in Rangers. Well maybe the Raider but that was very, very simple.
Danny77uk 1 year ago
@Danny77uk I got my information from JMS
.
QUOTE: "We had given the models to Sierra to create a Babylon 5 computer game. They kindly returned the models for use in LotR." It helps if you learn to listen to the Creator of the Show when he speaks, instead of calling your fellow fans liars
.
harleykman 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@harleykman I was talking about Rangers, not Lost Tales.
It helps if you learn to read my posts when I make them, instead of calling your fellow fans liars.
Danny77uk 1 year ago
@harleykman "today's computers are about 1200 times faster than the original Amigas "
Amigas were only uses for the first season; they switched to PCs in season 2. Anyway even though todays machines render faster, it still takes a LOT of work and time to create FX shots. I work in the film industry and most of the time is spent in post adding FX.
Even if you had the assets, you'd have to recompose all the original scenes, battle sounds..everything. Not gonna happen.
Danny77uk 1 year ago
@Danny77uk Okay
.
So by YOUR reckoning that CGI upgrade for Star Trek never happened. It's too hard and could not possibly have happened. Nor will it ever happen for B5
.
harleykman 1 year ago
@harleykman I have the remastered TOS boxset. If you think you think the TOS graphics and scenes that had to be created are anything like the complexity of those of even the first season of B5, you're a fucking idiot.
Danny77uk 1 year ago 4
@Danny77uk Yes they switched to PCs and Macs, but they were not really any faster than the Amiga 3000s or 4000s. The Macs of 1994 used the same 68040 CPU at 40 MHz, and the PCs still had 486s or Pentiums at 66 MHz. So we're still talking about modern computers having ~400 times faster rendering
.
harleykman 1 year ago
@harleykman I doesn't matter how much faster the machines are. Someone has to sit in front of one and re-do all this stuff. It would takes YEARS for a small group to accomplish this.
Danny77uk 1 year ago
@Danny77uk true, but I think it's possible. just keep all the sounds and internal visual, only edit the exterior cutscenes to match the original sounds, you can remake the movie with newer graphics without taking away from the original show.
EasternMerchant 1 year ago
good scene. But the special effects haven't aged well on this show. The CGI looks like PS2 quality. imagine what they could do with today's graphic engines.
apotheases 1 year ago
considering this came out when the ps1 was around sounds like its ahead of its time?
PINTO2O2O 1 year ago
@apotheases Next Gen consoles still couldnt render what you're seeing in real-time.
commandox20 1 year ago
@commandox20 i bed to differ,,,I'd say current gneration consoles would be more than capable of doing this in real time, theres a lot going on but by todays standards its a bit basic graphically, I rather doubt the wii would manage it but the 360 and the ps3 certainly could
sajuuk212 1 year ago
@sajuuk212 No, they couldnt. They may not LOOK that detailed, but their poly counts are very VERY high. It would not happen.
commandox20 1 year ago
@commandox20 oh they could, this the polygon counts in this pre-rendered movie are nothing compared to what a console can push out in real time nowadays, you only have to look at a wel desgned game to see that processing power thes days allows for far better looking stuff in real time, I'd name examples but the list wont fit
sajuuk212 1 year ago
@Brianboro67
"Stop that Narn chatter and head on 2-3-0!!"
"repeat please!"
walter0bz 1 year ago
most epic battle
ImAFanOfTails 1 year ago
@Brianboro67
I think you could say that not just for England, but for all of the countries of the Commonwealth. Brits fight hard, but if you add us Aussies into the fight, then there wouldn't be an enemy left to surrender!
gribae 2 years ago
All i wanted to say was hurray for not adding some stupid crappy soundtrack spoiling the dialogue and action. Nice one.
Hask79 2 years ago 46
@Hask79 Yeah, besides, the original sound track is amazing.
Gorandius1256 2 years ago
@Hask79 AGREED!!!!
silaku 1 year ago
@Hask79 AMEN!
trumbachd1 1 year ago
@Hask79
i agree
19sephiroth81 1 year ago
Awesome scene, but easier to watch at the proper aspect ratio where it's not vertically stretched.
Maximal32nd 2 years ago
this video makes it look like ivanova crashes and dies lol
philyburkhill1 2 years ago
@philyburkhill1
Not if you watch carefully and see her jettison craft fly away
gribae 2 years ago
yerp! ofc i know that but i just thought the vid makes it look like that ;)
philyburkhill1 2 years ago
Capt of the Churchill, bring us in closer to the enemy, how close? Right down there throats. Too cool
Bandarias 2 years ago 2
@Bandarias
Hiroshi was Capt of Churchill
the guy (Maj. ?) was acting capt of alexander
there is a continuity error showing a EA fighter hitting the churchill but the bridge of the Alexander was shaking from the hit
Stubbee 2 years ago
@Stubbee
Major Ryan, yes.
gribae 2 years ago
One of the best Scenes in the entire babylon 5 series and one of my favorites.
wickedcircle 2 years ago 5
Never name a ship Roanoke, it's bad luck.
dkerris 2 years ago 6
@dkerris : ah, it was crap ship anyway...
random007nadir 1 year ago
Those red dots on the sides of the Omegas were suppose to be missile silo's. For some reason they never used them
HouseofAtreus01 2 years ago
Considering where they were placed, they would be only good for a broadside attack or planetary bombardment.
Fbueller129 2 years ago
One of the best SCI-FI series ever with messages that STILL hold true.
PakaNoHida 2 years ago 25
@PakaNoHida So true.
lookbehindtheveil 1 year ago
When you swear an oath you are swearing an oath to the constitution and beliefs of the country.
obiswift 2 years ago 2
The special effects still hold up, after all these years.....
42underscore 2 years ago 3
Lightwave for the win... awesome CG software.
PakaNoHida 2 years ago 2
yeah i agree 42underscore hard to believe they were done on a commodore amiga 500 i used to have one of those when they first came out in the mid 80's
jbrand2002uk 2 years ago
Churchill R.I.P.
To Stand Against the Dark...or Perish
Thanks for uploading this :)
jamestparshall 2 years ago
One of the best moments of Babylon 5 ever.
MrBasildonboy 2 years ago 2
How did Clark manage to make so many Earth Force commanders being loyal to him?
lilbrothaaa 2 years ago
propaganda and terror.
Just look at people like Stalin and Lenin. They did a lot of bad things to their people, and still most of them stayed loyal.
Soldierlozer 2 years ago
How did clark manage this?
How did Bush manage to make so many US soldiers loyal to him?
Easy, the officers and soldiers of the armed forces (current or future) swore an oath to the President. However, most people see a narrow vision of the true. Do you think (even today) we see the true horrors that happen? We get media tidbits. The Babylon 5 crew was able to see a much larger scope than most.
I have no doubt, President Clark had a great propoganda and media campaign plus the Psicorp
BoydofZINJ 2 years ago
Agreed. One more thing is the inherent aspect of every true soldier: if he can be convinced that his orders are aimed at defending his nation he will set the world on fire.
lilbrothaaa 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Officers and Soldiers never swear an oath to the president, they swear an oath to the Constitution. There was recently some dispute over Obama possibly wanting to change their oath to be directly to the president for our protection.
commandox20 2 years ago
Yeah, except for the fact Obama never suggested any such thing.
xdassinx 2 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Actually, yes, his administration made the suggestion. It was on the table,and it when it was discovered it was immediately scrutinised into oblivion.
commandox20 2 years ago
don't believe everything you read "commandox20"
stmk0 2 years ago 2
bush already tried that, it didn't work.
superpenguin4500 2 years ago
@superpenguin4500
Bush couldn't even wipe his arse without fucking it up somehow.
gribae 2 years ago 3
one of the greatest ever sci-fi battles in the history of television, the sheer emotion that knowing everything was on the line. It was do or die and that a quarter of a million lives were at stake...
this beats the hell out of anything bsg done.
jamesdemann 2 years ago 18
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@jamesdemann The "greatest"? That was terrible! It was hard to feel the "sheer emotion" while I cringing at that CGI! And I seriously can't believe you think that THAT beats Battlestar Galactica (the new series)! If you mean the old series then I understand, but if your bashing on the new then you've got no taste in Sci-Fi!
RougeHawksClanRewind 1 year ago
Babylon 5 easily beats the new BSG. And the CGI is great. Just an excuss to try to make BSG sound better.
elgatoshadow 1 year ago
@RougeHawksClanRewind
Have you actually bothered to watch the show? Do you know what was on the line in this scene. No you probarbly haven't because your mind is concentrating on the CGI, which means you can't watch a show for the story, you just want it too look amazing, which was all what modern day BSG was all about, no substance just flash bang wallop.
You are looking at CGi that was pionnering, ffs the show is over 20 years old now.. And my taste in sci-fi is vastly better than yours!
jamesdemann 1 year ago
@jamesdemann Well you certainly judge hard! I can't take a show seriously unless it has some effort put into it's realism department, (no matter how good the story is) And so, using the same judgement on you inflicted on me, HAVE YOU EVEN WATCHED BSG? Many people think BSG's downfall was on the huge EMPHASIS on SUBSTANCE!! The show focuses so much on believability and fleshy real characters that even the actual Sci- Fi and battles are spread out. Heck, even Star Trek does better than B5!
RougeHawksClanRewind 1 year ago
@RougeHawksClanRewind Star Trek does better then B5 at space battles? The same star trek that uses warp speed (impossible) and non newtonian ship movement? (Oh look mum, the ship can fly like an aeroplane!) Where all the ships look like they were developed by Ikea?
Show some respect to a show that wiped the floor with Star Trek when it came to show how space battles should be done, and provided the first believable template for how Sci-fi Earth forces would engage in combat.
ScreamingTc 1 year ago 2
@ScreamingTc Hey I rate Sci-Fi shows based on believability, realism, coolness, and style. So many shows have made each of my catagories, but B5 falls short. You seem very biased considering it was probably your first Sci-Fi show so in your mind "Nothing can be better". If Star Trek in your mind can't be better then B5 then the New BSG is, or Star Wars, or even STARGATE!
RougeHawksClanRewind 1 year ago
@RougeHawksClanRewind Erm...no. My first sci-fi was actually Doctor Who and V: The mini-series, so please don't be condescending if you can at all possibly help it.
Stargate is ok in Small doses, but there's something about it that annoys the hell out of me. BSG had ok space battles, but it only occasionally felt like tactics were thought about by the production crew. Star Wars is just plain ol' fun. Star Trek had the occasional good episode but it just feels drawn out and lethargic.
ScreamingTc 1 year ago
@RougeHawksClanRewind what...the same nuBSG where characters acted out of character if it suited that weeks story? Or where there were duplicates of Earth? Or where all the crap writing and logic was explained away by "God did it"?The one that told us "and they have a plan" but in reality they didn't? That nuBSG? Without it's "shock" moments, the show was melodramtic garbage.
JimmyDaKoik 1 year ago