Nice animation that still does not prove subduction. I have yet to see a single photogragh of a subduction zone. I have seen hundreds of expansion zone photos but not one of subduction. Why is that I wonder. But there certainly a lot of animations!
That is a great demonstration of the earthquakes along the plate boundary, Is it possible to use beachballs instead of boxes? using size for magnetude and showing relative directions? Just curious.
If you Google Search, "Global Warming Science Uncertain"
It says that on average the sea levels in the pacific are falling at an average rate of -11.2 mm/yr.
However... Tonga has a sea level rise of
+29.1 over 65 months.
Is the subduction process lowering the land in this area? How does this sea level increase relate to this video when most other areas of the pacific are experiencing a drop in sea level?
I'm doubtful that global warming is causing Tonga to drown, the subduction zone is bending, dragging down the islands, which will spring up after the bending is released by a major Earthquake - I would only trust data from stable, earthquake free, areas.
Not the Pacific, not Islands near Subduction zones, but Western Europe and Eastern USA. There are sites in the UK with using GPS and gravimeter data that ensures the land is not moving.
so there are stations which monitor rise relative to each other... and then there is volumetric sea level rise?
Is Tonga considered an Island Arc and is a "trench" nearby? I'm under the impression most island arcs have a trench to one side. What would be an example of an island arc which does not have a trench to one side of it?
Do all island arcs have volcanoes or is that dependent on the subducting plate material? What kind of material?
Relative sea level change; Relative sea level fall can be caused by land uplift, Relative sea level rise can be caused by land subsidence.
Absolute sea level change, is the true sea level change, its measured by taking into account any land uplift or subsidence.
Island Arcs have one subduction zone, water released by the subducting plate reduces the melting point of the asthenospheric wedge (Google it), this causes magma generation under the Island Arcs, usually forming Island Arc volcanoes.
Thank you for your help. I am trying to interpret these vectors for the the GPS data that NASA suppies. IS there some sort of calculation I need to apply to the vectors?
If you Google, "GPS Time Series" there is a map but the arrows point off in conflicting directions. I believe there is a Lat Long and Height for each station. If I were to apply this to the Tonga Subduction how would I do that?
Diamonddavej, nealadamsdotcom another poster on youtube and a proponent of the expanding earth theory has stated that you are a proponent of his theory. Is this true? Just checking some references. If you have no idea what I'm talking about then search youtube for "growing earth" and you'll see.
From Neal: "Hey, Dave, I mistakenly named you as a member of the EE group mistaking you for another Dave who searches for diamonds. Sorry." I've been mistaken for allot of things, but rarely an idiot.
That makes sense! I told him too watch this video while arguing with him. And he replied with a laugh that U guys are buds and you were part of his clan!.... I was like what? Old Neal must really be losing it.
The method they use is called seismic tomography - it is the same principal as in ultrasound imaging - except in this case the sound waves are not 200,000 Hz but 10 Hz. Sound waves reflect off rocks of different density and powerful computers create a 3D picture from that echoing sound.
Yes they use siesmic technology in mining as well as oil and gas exploration. Oil and gas companies plant charges or vibrators along lines and or grids over the land. Detectors preceding and following the charges measure the time variations of the echos producing a profile of the synclines and anticlines of rock formation. Geologists then analyse the profiles to determine where the highest chance of oil and/or gas is located.
Mining rarely uses seismic method to find metallic resources. Metals exploration uses Induced Polarisation (IP), Resistivity, VLF-EM/VLF-R and Magnetotellurics. These methods detect electromagnetic and electrical effects that metal deposits produce. Oil and Gas needs the seismic method, as geologist need to know the shape of rock layers and location of faults.
Gem mining - for Diamonds = airborne thermal infrared cameras (kimberlite is cold), airborne magnetometers (it contains magnetite), panning and accessory minerals e.g. chrome-hercynite, chrome-diopside and pyrope (these minerals are found in kimberlite), and good old fashioned geological mapping on-foot. Also, diamonds are found in areas where the Earth's crust is more then 200km thick e.g. South Africa.
I work up in Northern Canada in the Foresty ind and share the land,roads,etc with siesmic crews all the time. One day a coupla yrs ago a foreman of one crew told me they Sometimes have had to do jobs for certian Coalmines. It kinda surprised me as I also thought they only used it for Oil/gas. I wasn't thinking minerals when he asked. When I hear mining I think Coal. I just remembered that foreman thats why I included mining. Thanks tho :)
The process of Subduction is even more interesting when it is presented in a visual format like this. You can see how many of the earthquakes occure where the plate is sliding into the mantle.
If in fact this information is correct... I would interpret it as a slab of rock grinding into another slab of rock, fracturing, then due to vibrations and the force of gravity... falling...
That is very interesting how you would make the association between fabrication and money. What makes you think this might in anyway be associated with money?
One example of money corrupting science is Andrew Wakefield; he falsely claimed that the MMR vaccine caused autism - and at the same time he invented an alternative "safe" vaccine he wanted to sell instead of the MMR. If his plan worked, he would have made millions of pounds in profit.
I agree... Profiteering off science is a problem... The pharmaceutical industry being a prime example... I think the real question is how far it has corrupted every other area of science. Does funding effect the results we see from geophysicists? Does the fame game lead to false claims?
Well that the important point, in geophysics at Tonga there is no opportunity for profit, no people to sell to. Also, if someone is making false claims for fame, there will be 10 scientists who want to gain fame by revealing corruption; Corrupt scientists are always spotted in the end by the peer review process - you do know how peer review works?
I found this interesting info from Wiki - A poll of 3,247 scientists funded by the U.S. National Institutes of Health found 0.3% admitted faking data, 1.4% admitted plagiarism, and 4.7% admitted to auto-plagiarism (re-publishing old results again).
Well, whats your interpretation? Mine - the blue is a subducting slab of oceanic crust. Yes, fabrication can be a problem if money is involved; I never lie because I'm an Aspie, and Aspies are very honest, that's why I like science - it is the search for truth. I agree with Slide 8 on "Scientific Ethics and the Signs of Voodoo Science."
Great post diamond dave!!!! Finally some truth. There is a guy here in utubeland (NealAdams) going around saying that the earth is growing and has a 9 minute animated video about it. He says plate tectonics and subduction do not exist and it is a big cover up by all scientists to hide the fact Earth is growing....Completely ridiculous! It angers me that he is swaying lots of uneducated people with it.
Its got nothing to do with GE theory, how right he thinks it is or not. He loves being stubborn iconoclast - he single handedly changed the US comic book industry's copyright system in the 60's to favor the artist not the comic book owners, by being stubborn like today - he thinks he can do it again. He has Dunning-Kruger Syndrome too (he measures his intelligence by his 1960's success).
@judgegixxer Well I'm an idiot too then, because i do not see how this video proves subduction. I am in agreement with the EE theory as even Darwin proposed it, and Einstein. To say abosolutely one way or the other is not scientific. You have stated an absolute, this cannot possibly be true. Why can't the earth expand and have FOLDING of the plate edges instead of subduction. It seems to me this is just as reasonable a theory and this video even would support it.
There is an extremely interesting video regarding "voodoo science" which I recommend you watch... just Google... "Scientific Ethics and the Signs of Voodoo Science" It has skewed my view of the scientific community as a whole...
No -- I am not suggesting they falsified anything. I do not have the technical comprehension of exactly what they have done nor do I understand the accuracy of the methods used. I am just extremely skeptical of the faith people place on technologies. ( statistical information in particular )
East west vertical cross-section of a P-wave tomographic image of the Tonga Subduction Zone from Zhao et al., [1997]. The image was determined by inversion of ~41,000 P-wave arrival times from 926 earthquakes recorded by portable land seismic stations, ocean bottom seismographs, and teleseismic stations. Red and blue colors denote slow and fast velocities, respectively, and the velocity perturbation scale is shown at the bottom.
If you think they falsified their research, you can complain to the US government who funded them. These are their NSF research grant numbers - EAR-9219675, OCE-9314446, and EAR-9614502.
I have their paper they wrote in Science, I would be happy to email it to you. Zhao et al., 1997. Depth Extent of the Lau Back-Arc Spreading Center and Its Relation to Subduction Processes. SCIENCE, VOL. 278, Page 254 - 257.
I apologize for my sarcasm... But I do believe this is an artists rendition. Unless I am missing something but I do believe this sort of "real" imaging is not possible with todays technology.
Just to give you a sense of scale, the from the top of the 3D animation to the bottom is ~500 km. A sink hole is a limestone cave that collapses, nothing to do with subduction.
@Diamonddavej If we could see 500km into the earth, then oil exploration would not be necesary. This video is then only an artist rendition and the portion to support subduction is added falsly.
@aztecking21122012 1. Oil industry uses seismic surveying to find oil and gas reserves.
2. NanTroSEIZE is a project that successfully drilled into the Nankai Trough Subduction Zone zone, enter "IODP Exps. 314, 315, 316" into youtube search.
3. The giant the Japanese drilling vessel Chikyu, NanTroSEIZE project, drilled into the Nankai Trough Subduction Zone. They have samples of the rocks from the subduction zone, the rocks collected confirm the seismic pictures and Plate Tectonics.
"They have samples of the rocks from the subduction zone, the rocks collected confirm the seismic pictures and Plate Tectonics."
That sounds interesting, could you explain further though? How exactly do they confirm the seismic pictures? I'm not a deniar of plate techtonics or anything, I'm just curious...
@adkinsjr The colours represent the speed that seismic waves (earthquake sounds) travel though the Earth, the denser the rock the faster seismic waves travel. Blue areas are cold denser oceanic lithosphere (faster seismic waves), whereas yellow & red areas are hotter less dense mantle (slower seismic waves).
Also, samples of rock from the sea-floor & xenoliths erupted in volcanoes (mantle Peridotite) can be examined & seismic velocity measured, confirming the seismic profile seen here.
How do they know it isn't a sinkhole? If I take a bag of stale brown sugar and press it against a wall it crumbles and falls to the floor. In other words... How to they know the integrity of the subducting plate isn't compromised. Or is it?
That's a good description, well its done via "travel times", how long the sound of the Earthquake takes to get to each seismometer. The cubes are foci, areas of the fault that moved most during each earthquake. The direction of movement can also be resolved, proving that the oceanic plate is moving down into the Mantle.
Nice animation that still does not prove subduction. I have yet to see a single photogragh of a subduction zone. I have seen hundreds of expansion zone photos but not one of subduction. Why is that I wonder. But there certainly a lot of animations!
aztecking21122012 1 year ago
Comment removed
Biofishable 1 year ago
COOL!
greetings
johannesvalks 2 years ago
That is a great demonstration of the earthquakes along the plate boundary, Is it possible to use beachballs instead of boxes? using size for magnetude and showing relative directions? Just curious.
oicurageologist 2 years ago
I'm sure it is possible, and a web search may find such an animation, you should read about InSar.
Diamonddavej 2 years ago
Comment removed
rollsthepaul 3 years ago
Where did you get this drivel from? Predictions such as this are completely unfounded. And when non of this happens, will you be retracting this?
oicurageologist 2 years ago
Google Search, "Morphology and Strength of the
Pacific Plate Within the Kermadec Trench"
MrKappaBeta 3 years ago
If you Google Search, "Global Warming Science Uncertain"
It says that on average the sea levels in the pacific are falling at an average rate of -11.2 mm/yr.
However... Tonga has a sea level rise of
+29.1 over 65 months.
Is the subduction process lowering the land in this area? How does this sea level increase relate to this video when most other areas of the pacific are experiencing a drop in sea level?
MrKappaBeta 3 years ago
There is relative and absolute sea level rise.
I'm doubtful that global warming is causing Tonga to drown, the subduction zone is bending, dragging down the islands, which will spring up after the bending is released by a major Earthquake - I would only trust data from stable, earthquake free, areas.
Not the Pacific, not Islands near Subduction zones, but Western Europe and Eastern USA. There are sites in the UK with using GPS and gravimeter data that ensures the land is not moving.
Diamonddavej 3 years ago
"There is relative and absolute sea level rise."
so there are stations which monitor rise relative to each other... and then there is volumetric sea level rise?
Is Tonga considered an Island Arc and is a "trench" nearby? I'm under the impression most island arcs have a trench to one side. What would be an example of an island arc which does not have a trench to one side of it?
Do all island arcs have volcanoes or is that dependent on the subducting plate material? What kind of material?
MrKappaBeta 3 years ago
Relative sea level change; Relative sea level fall can be caused by land uplift, Relative sea level rise can be caused by land subsidence.
Absolute sea level change, is the true sea level change, its measured by taking into account any land uplift or subsidence.
Island Arcs have one subduction zone, water released by the subducting plate reduces the melting point of the asthenospheric wedge (Google it), this causes magma generation under the Island Arcs, usually forming Island Arc volcanoes.
Diamonddavej 3 years ago
Thank you for your help. I am trying to interpret these vectors for the the GPS data that NASA suppies. IS there some sort of calculation I need to apply to the vectors?
If you Google, "GPS Time Series" there is a map but the arrows point off in conflicting directions. I believe there is a Lat Long and Height for each station. If I were to apply this to the Tonga Subduction how would I do that?
MrKappaBeta 3 years ago
what do the colours in this video represent?
St37One 4 years ago
It would appear to be the speed of seismic waves through the rock. Blue representing faster, red, slower.
pulsedet 4 years ago
Diamonddavej, nealadamsdotcom another poster on youtube and a proponent of the expanding earth theory has stated that you are a proponent of his theory. Is this true? Just checking some references. If you have no idea what I'm talking about then search youtube for "growing earth" and you'll see.
Unre9istered 4 years ago
From Neal: "Hey, Dave, I mistakenly named you as a member of the EE group mistaking you for another Dave who searches for diamonds. Sorry." I've been mistaken for allot of things, but rarely an idiot.
Diamonddavej 4 years ago
That makes sense! I told him too watch this video while arguing with him. And he replied with a laugh that U guys are buds and you were part of his clan!.... I was like what? Old Neal must really be losing it.
judgegixxer 4 years ago
How did they make this scan? Did they send vibrations into the ground use radar or piece together data from the various earthquakes?
Ashybasha 4 years ago
The method they use is called seismic tomography - it is the same principal as in ultrasound imaging - except in this case the sound waves are not 200,000 Hz but 10 Hz. Sound waves reflect off rocks of different density and powerful computers create a 3D picture from that echoing sound.
Diamonddavej 4 years ago
dont they use this process in mining as well?
jerzkid87 4 years ago
Yes they use siesmic technology in mining as well as oil and gas exploration. Oil and gas companies plant charges or vibrators along lines and or grids over the land. Detectors preceding and following the charges measure the time variations of the echos producing a profile of the synclines and anticlines of rock formation. Geologists then analyse the profiles to determine where the highest chance of oil and/or gas is located.
judgegixxer 4 years ago
Mining rarely uses seismic method to find metallic resources. Metals exploration uses Induced Polarisation (IP), Resistivity, VLF-EM/VLF-R and Magnetotellurics. These methods detect electromagnetic and electrical effects that metal deposits produce. Oil and Gas needs the seismic method, as geologist need to know the shape of rock layers and location of faults.
Diamonddavej 4 years ago
what about gem mining?
jerzkid87 4 years ago
Gem mining - for Diamonds = airborne thermal infrared cameras (kimberlite is cold), airborne magnetometers (it contains magnetite), panning and accessory minerals e.g. chrome-hercynite, chrome-diopside and pyrope (these minerals are found in kimberlite), and good old fashioned geological mapping on-foot. Also, diamonds are found in areas where the Earth's crust is more then 200km thick e.g. South Africa.
Diamonddavej 4 years ago
I work up in Northern Canada in the Foresty ind and share the land,roads,etc with siesmic crews all the time. One day a coupla yrs ago a foreman of one crew told me they Sometimes have had to do jobs for certian Coalmines. It kinda surprised me as I also thought they only used it for Oil/gas. I wasn't thinking minerals when he asked. When I hear mining I think Coal. I just remembered that foreman thats why I included mining. Thanks tho :)
judgegixxer 4 years ago
The process of Subduction is even more interesting when it is presented in a visual format like this. You can see how many of the earthquakes occure where the plate is sliding into the mantle.
Ashybasha 4 years ago
If in fact this information is correct... I would interpret it as a slab of rock grinding into another slab of rock, fracturing, then due to vibrations and the force of gravity... falling...
mrmagoogamma 4 years ago
That is very interesting how you would make the association between fabrication and money. What makes you think this might in anyway be associated with money?
mrmagoogamma 4 years ago
One example of money corrupting science is Andrew Wakefield; he falsely claimed that the MMR vaccine caused autism - and at the same time he invented an alternative "safe" vaccine he wanted to sell instead of the MMR. If his plan worked, he would have made millions of pounds in profit.
Diamonddavej 4 years ago
I agree... Profiteering off science is a problem... The pharmaceutical industry being a prime example... I think the real question is how far it has corrupted every other area of science. Does funding effect the results we see from geophysicists? Does the fame game lead to false claims?
mrmagoogamma 4 years ago
Well that the important point, in geophysics at Tonga there is no opportunity for profit, no people to sell to. Also, if someone is making false claims for fame, there will be 10 scientists who want to gain fame by revealing corruption; Corrupt scientists are always spotted in the end by the peer review process - you do know how peer review works?
Diamonddavej 4 years ago
I found this interesting info from Wiki - A poll of 3,247 scientists funded by the U.S. National Institutes of Health found 0.3% admitted faking data, 1.4% admitted plagiarism, and 4.7% admitted to auto-plagiarism (re-publishing old results again).
Diamonddavej 4 years ago
Well, whats your interpretation? Mine - the blue is a subducting slab of oceanic crust. Yes, fabrication can be a problem if money is involved; I never lie because I'm an Aspie, and Aspies are very honest, that's why I like science - it is the search for truth. I agree with Slide 8 on "Scientific Ethics and the Signs of Voodoo Science."
Diamonddavej 4 years ago
Great post diamond dave!!!! Finally some truth. There is a guy here in utubeland (NealAdams) going around saying that the earth is growing and has a 9 minute animated video about it. He says plate tectonics and subduction do not exist and it is a big cover up by all scientists to hide the fact Earth is growing....Completely ridiculous! It angers me that he is swaying lots of uneducated people with it.
judgegixxer 4 years ago
Its got nothing to do with GE theory, how right he thinks it is or not. He loves being stubborn iconoclast - he single handedly changed the US comic book industry's copyright system in the 60's to favor the artist not the comic book owners, by being stubborn like today - he thinks he can do it again. He has Dunning-Kruger Syndrome too (he measures his intelligence by his 1960's success).
Diamonddavej 4 years ago
@judgegixxer Well I'm an idiot too then, because i do not see how this video proves subduction. I am in agreement with the EE theory as even Darwin proposed it, and Einstein. To say abosolutely one way or the other is not scientific. You have stated an absolute, this cannot possibly be true. Why can't the earth expand and have FOLDING of the plate edges instead of subduction. It seems to me this is just as reasonable a theory and this video even would support it.
aztecking21122012 1 year ago
In other words... There is obvious truth to this presentation... but the interpretation of the information is only an interpretation.
mrmagoogamma 4 years ago
There is an extremely interesting video regarding "voodoo science" which I recommend you watch... just Google... "Scientific Ethics and the Signs of Voodoo Science" It has skewed my view of the scientific community as a whole...
mrmagoogamma 4 years ago
No -- I am not suggesting they falsified anything. I do not have the technical comprehension of exactly what they have done nor do I understand the accuracy of the methods used. I am just extremely skeptical of the faith people place on technologies. ( statistical information in particular )
mrmagoogamma 4 years ago
East west vertical cross-section of a P-wave tomographic image of the Tonga Subduction Zone from Zhao et al., [1997]. The image was determined by inversion of ~41,000 P-wave arrival times from 926 earthquakes recorded by portable land seismic stations, ocean bottom seismographs, and teleseismic stations. Red and blue colors denote slow and fast velocities, respectively, and the velocity perturbation scale is shown at the bottom.
Diamonddavej 4 years ago
If you think they falsified their research, you can complain to the US government who funded them. These are their NSF research grant numbers - EAR-9219675, OCE-9314446, and EAR-9614502.
Diamonddavej 4 years ago
I have their paper they wrote in Science, I would be happy to email it to you. Zhao et al., 1997. Depth Extent of the Lau Back-Arc Spreading Center and Its Relation to Subduction Processes. SCIENCE, VOL. 278, Page 254 - 257.
Diamonddavej 4 years ago
I apologize for my sarcasm... But I do believe this is an artists rendition. Unless I am missing something but I do believe this sort of "real" imaging is not possible with todays technology.
mrmagoogamma 4 years ago
Did they use N-rays to get these images?
mrmagoogamma 4 years ago
reminds me of cold fusion...
mrmagoogamma 4 years ago
Or is that what it is... A sinkhole.
mrmagoogamma 4 years ago
Just to give you a sense of scale, the from the top of the 3D animation to the bottom is ~500 km. A sink hole is a limestone cave that collapses, nothing to do with subduction.
Diamonddavej 4 years ago
@Diamonddavej If we could see 500km into the earth, then oil exploration would not be necesary. This video is then only an artist rendition and the portion to support subduction is added falsly.
aztecking21122012 1 year ago
@aztecking21122012 1. Oil industry uses seismic surveying to find oil and gas reserves.
2. NanTroSEIZE is a project that successfully drilled into the Nankai Trough Subduction Zone zone, enter "IODP Exps. 314, 315, 316" into youtube search.
3. The giant the Japanese drilling vessel Chikyu, NanTroSEIZE project, drilled into the Nankai Trough Subduction Zone. They have samples of the rocks from the subduction zone, the rocks collected confirm the seismic pictures and Plate Tectonics.
Diamonddavej 1 year ago
@Diamonddavej
"They have samples of the rocks from the subduction zone, the rocks collected confirm the seismic pictures and Plate Tectonics."
That sounds interesting, could you explain further though? How exactly do they confirm the seismic pictures? I'm not a deniar of plate techtonics or anything, I'm just curious...
adkinsjr 1 year ago
@adkinsjr The colours represent the speed that seismic waves (earthquake sounds) travel though the Earth, the denser the rock the faster seismic waves travel. Blue areas are cold denser oceanic lithosphere (faster seismic waves), whereas yellow & red areas are hotter less dense mantle (slower seismic waves).
Also, samples of rock from the sea-floor & xenoliths erupted in volcanoes (mantle Peridotite) can be examined & seismic velocity measured, confirming the seismic profile seen here.
Diamonddavej 1 year ago
How do they know it isn't a sinkhole? If I take a bag of stale brown sugar and press it against a wall it crumbles and falls to the floor. In other words... How to they know the integrity of the subducting plate isn't compromised. Or is it?
mrmagoogamma 4 years ago
That's a good description, well its done via "travel times", how long the sound of the Earthquake takes to get to each seismometer. The cubes are foci, areas of the fault that moved most during each earthquake. The direction of movement can also be resolved, proving that the oceanic plate is moving down into the Mantle.
Diamonddavej 4 years ago
Okay... so the cubes are mini-epicenters which have been mapped by triangulating pressure waves (seismology)... correct?
mrmagoogamma 4 years ago