God has created Adam and eve atoms and Evolution and through out the children of adam came his sons 990 years later they live a thousand years pretty much and died off into a new evolved state. only if you people could understand Lol this universe is part of God elements the breath you take the sun you see in the day the moon at night the TREE OF LIFE is part of gods genetics why do you guys think god is like an image or something Stupid athiests and stupid image Idolists lol
THERE CANT BE A GOD, HE WOULD STOP THE ISRAELI MURDERING FILTH IF THERE WAS, PLUS HE WOULDNT HAVE ALLOWED THAT MAN BEAST LIVNI TO BE BORN.
I fucking hate the fucking ugly whore Tzipi Livni, she looks as evil and ugly as she really is, the fucking bastard child daughter of Satan. I would like to see her head explode so that I never have to listen to the ugly skank ever again... fucking Satan bitch bastard, war criminal just like her terrorist father.
god:an individual supernatural being, with a distinctive name, personality, and control or influence of a major aspect of nature (such as rain or fertility), that encompasses the life of an entire commintity or a major segment of the community. -Stein and Stein. 2008. The Anthropology of Religion, Magic and Witchcraft. Boston: USA. Pearson Education inc.If you have the brains to recognize that religion is flawed, then have the brains to investigate what physics/quantum theory tells us.we are ONE
I suppose that you still have not noticed that you DO have to read it...since it's entirely composed of letters/words moving across the screen, mmafan35?
Instead of wasting your time commenting on my posts and their intent why don't you apply that effort to reading the video and wrapping your head around the concepts that those words spell out?
Ummmm EndTimesApproaching said, have I ever seen the astral plane. Sure have. On pg.114 of the Dungeons & Dragons book The Dungeon Master's Guide. Now you do know that D&D isn't real right? What other things from D&D do you subscribe to? Ressurection? Limb regeneration? Magical spells? The elemental plane of fire? I like D&D too but...dude, its only a game.
Rael has no idea of what's really going on, it's a shame that his sci-fi crap attracts so much people to put their minds asleep. It's right that the elohim/nephilim/annunaki are the creators of humanity, they mixed monkeys with their own DNA to create the Cro-Magnon until he evolved into the modern human. Evolution is a fact and it is neccesarry. But the real secret of life is not mentoined: Matter is a lowered form of energy and all life came into existence by lowering frequency into form!
Did any of you bibliophile spewing mindslaves watch the 2nd video? I know full research isn't you're strongest virtue, but you might want to see it all before you select which verse in your one book you want to come back with.
Ahh, I see that thelightofourworld's account has been closed. Hopefully it was due to being a fucking spammer but more likely because they were doing a hit and run spam job under changing names.
What is with these obnoxious xtians. I see this all the time, posting a dozen or more bible verses in row. Who the fuck do they think they are going to convert with that bs, the choir?
Anyway thanks for this vid CG! I'll watch pt.2 now.
You have delivered me from the attacks of the people; you have made me the head of nations; people I did not know are subject to me. As soon as they hear me, they obey me; foreigners cringe before me.
They all lose heart; they come trembling from their strongholds.
You give me your shield of victory, and your right hand sustains me; you stoop down to make me great.You broaden the path beneath me, so that my ankles do not turn. I pursued my enemies and overtook them; I did not turn back till they were destroyed.
I crushed them so that they could not rise; they fell beneath my feet.
You save the humble but bring low those whose eyes are haughty. You, O LORD, keep my lamp burning; my God turns my darkness into light.
With your help I can advance against a troop [d] ; with my God I can scale a wall. As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless. He is a shield for all who take refuge in him.
All his laws are before me; I have not turned away from his decrees. I have been blameless before him and have kept myself from sin.
The LORD has rewarded me according to my righteousness, according to the cleanness of my hands in his sight. To the faithful you show yourself faithful, to the blameless you show yourself blameless, to the pure you show yourself pure, but to the crooked you show yourself shrewd.
They confronted me in the day of my disaster, but the LORD was my support.
He brought me out into a spacious place; he rescued me because he delighted in me.
The LORD has dealt with me according to my righteousness; according to the cleanness of my hands he has rewarded me.For I have kept the ways of the LORD; I have not done evil by turning from my God.
The earth trembled and quaked, and the foundations of the mountains shook; they trembled because he was angry.
Smoke rose from his nostrils; consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it. He parted the heavens and came down; dark clouds were under his feet.He mounted the cherubim and flew; he soared on the wings of the wind.
For the director of music. Of David the servant of the LORD. He sang to the LORD the words of this song when the LORD delivered him from the hand of all his enemies and from the hand of Saul. He said: I love you, O LORD, my strength. The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn [a] of my salvation, my stronghold.
Thank you, this video has strengthened my iman (belief). I am a stronger Muslim watching this, since Islam provides answers to the questions that I didn't know I had, and watching that video I saw that once again. Charlie, you're so close to accepting Islam you don't even know it. Keep digging, you will find truth soon inshaAllah.
All i know is that there is a good & evil force. that we dont understand! & that I choose to be guided by the good what ever it really is. well done charliee1 a really good thought provoking video! :-)
One thing I do know that there is something out there that we can not understand, we have instints & some of us can see ghosts,UFOs ect.. We dont really know where that comes from & religons & belifs have been changed through out the ages.Secrets of history have been kept from us so who really knows.
Suffering is not created by God, it is a consequense of our sining. Now you would say: "But if God can do anything, he could have made it impossible for people to sin, and he could have eliminated all evil". But he wanted man to have free will, and let us make our own decisions. Besides if there would be no evil, there would be nothing to strive for in live, you could accomplish anything without the slightest resistence, and everybody would be happy - it would be totally boring
how does our having free will contradict the existence of an omnipotent being? What free will do we have? The choice between acting according to our conscience and not acting according to it. I think that's the only choice we have.
Simply put, if god created us, knowing everything that we would do, then what we perceive as free will is actually a pre-ordained destiny, in which we do not actually have a choice. If we do have a choice, and can act independently of god's original intent or knowledge, then he is not omniscient.
from what i understand free will is an independent choice. if a god tells you i will send you to hell for choosing other gods and you choose to believe in the particular god that you think said that, then because of fear of hell, its not an independent choice there for not free will, its more like a controld will.
"If God created time and space, how can he exist without it?" Rigth, anybody who created our time and space would have to be outside of it. From our perspective this seems unimaginable. But let's use an example: you know the computer game "The Sims". Suppose those computer-people where sentient. They would think: "my mother and father, and everybody i know are computer people, and since i cannot see anything outside the computer simulation, i do not think that there exist anything else"
Why does the poster have to have a "beef" with god to not believe he exists? I don't believe Santa exists, but I have no hard feelings toward the guy or the people who tried to "cram" his existence down my throat when I was a child. For me, its a simple matter of evidence. I grew up in a pentacostal family, and nothing would make me happier than were there a god.
Why does the poster have to have a "beef" with god to not believe he exists? I don't believe Santa exists, but I have no hard feelings toward the guy or the people who tried to "cram" his existence down my throat when I was a child. For me, its a simple matter of evidence. I grew up in a pentacostal family, and nothing would make me happier than were there a god.
Knuckles, if it's beyond human comprehension for something to exist outside of time, and god exists wholly outside of time, then god is wholly outside of human comprehension, and therefore, all supposed human knowledge about him (the Bible, for example), is wrong.
Its beyond human comprehension for something to exist outside of time. You believe you can disprove concepts that humanity doesn't have the capacity to understand by boxing "god" into your logical fallcies?Are you the type of guy who just believes in the objective, scientific reality and rejects any other form of knowledge?I have no problem with you being an atheist, but let me ask you something. Is your beef with God, or is it just with the ppl who tried to cram religion down your throat?
The way you structure your arguements is completely biassed.According to your video, if God exists... then "this" is true, but "this" can't be true, so God doesn't exist, right? in a nutshell?
I think you aren't really appreciating the ideas of omnipotentce, and infinity.These concepts are not well understood even by the brightest minds.
My intention is not to deny the possiblity of a DNA-having "humanist" god. It is, however, to pose that it may be possible to have a different kind of life, one without the biological framework that evolved on earth.
Thanks for putting the work into this that you did.
The following comment will be in 2 parts, since it is over 500 words.
Most of what you had is fairly sound. I am curous about your inference of the "humanist" god (creator, we shall say). From my understanding of natural selection, DNA and life and so forth came about almost by accident. Given the environment, whatever worked stayed, and whatever was better took over.
OHHHHHH, I GET IT, you are one of those believers that the aliens created us through cloning and that rael visited their planet blah blah blah, come one man, thats the most load of bullshit i have ever taken in one day, thats like childish right there, aliens, elohim, rael, oh wow, its like a bunch of science fiction geeks gone wild
God has created Adam and eve atoms and Evolution and through out the children of adam came his sons 990 years later they live a thousand years pretty much and died off into a new evolved state. only if you people could understand Lol this universe is part of God elements the breath you take the sun you see in the day the moon at night the TREE OF LIFE is part of gods genetics why do you guys think god is like an image or something Stupid athiests and stupid image Idolists lol
jaso19 1 year ago
Why is the christian God the only justifiable one, from that you have failed.
MrBlackfish011 2 years ago
and if is real, oh man, your screwed :)))) hahahha
danoprish 2 years ago
and what happend to napoleon?
Tachyon55555 2 years ago
THERE CANT BE A GOD, HE WOULD STOP THE ISRAELI MURDERING FILTH IF THERE WAS, PLUS HE WOULDNT HAVE ALLOWED THAT MAN BEAST LIVNI TO BE BORN.
I fucking hate the fucking ugly whore Tzipi Livni, she looks as evil and ugly as she really is, the fucking bastard child daughter of Satan. I would like to see her head explode so that I never have to listen to the ugly skank ever again... fucking Satan bitch bastard, war criminal just like her terrorist father.
mcevoy31 3 years ago
i am a god,,, i worship me,,
mcevoy31 3 years ago
god:an individual supernatural being, with a distinctive name, personality, and control or influence of a major aspect of nature (such as rain or fertility), that encompasses the life of an entire commintity or a major segment of the community. -Stein and Stein. 2008. The Anthropology of Religion, Magic and Witchcraft. Boston: USA. Pearson Education inc.If you have the brains to recognize that religion is flawed, then have the brains to investigate what physics/quantum theory tells us.we are ONE
TwinsnMountainMovers 3 years ago
bwahaha take tht religion!
elliot5050 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Visit: realrael[dot]com and find out how twisted Rael really is
SunriseSucks 3 years ago
This was seriously painful to watch.
mmafan35 4 years ago
Then you were doing it wrong, mmafan35...you have to read it, not watch it.
ELECTROGOD 4 years ago
Oh, I get it...you're trying to be funny.
mmafan35 4 years ago
No...not really...unless you were merely trying to be funny in the first place and not critical as your post appeared.
ELECTROGOD 4 years ago
Why would an attempt to be funny on my part alter the intent of yours? Presumably you either meant to be funny or you didn't.
mmafan35 4 years ago
I suppose that you still have not noticed that you DO have to read it...since it's entirely composed of letters/words moving across the screen, mmafan35?
Instead of wasting your time commenting on my posts and their intent why don't you apply that effort to reading the video and wrapping your head around the concepts that those words spell out?
ELECTROGOD 4 years ago
I did. I WATCHED the screen as I READ the words. And it was painfully idiotic.
mmafan35 4 years ago
Maybe you can detail why it's idiotic (other than it doesn't reinforce your belief in an imaginary god)?
ELECTROGOD 4 years ago
1) I can't with the 500 character limit. I could barely make one, and certainly not in enough detail to convince you.
2) What gave you the silly idea I believe in God?
mmafan35 4 years ago
Figures.
ELECTROGOD 4 years ago
I'm open to suggestions.
mmafan35 4 years ago
Very well put
akagrin 4 years ago
what a horribly made video. The scrolling of text is reallllly annoying. I cant even follow your points.
Thunderstryk 4 years ago
I am sorry, i know its bad, i will make a better one.
charliegee1111111111 4 years ago
If you can't read that fast then use the pause button (these ARE more detailed concepts than reading comics).
I think it's fine.
ELECTROGOD 4 years ago
nah. i bothered my eyes too. i couldn't finish it.
top2d2 4 years ago
Ummmm EndTimesApproaching said, have I ever seen the astral plane. Sure have. On pg.114 of the Dungeons & Dragons book The Dungeon Master's Guide. Now you do know that D&D isn't real right? What other things from D&D do you subscribe to? Ressurection? Limb regeneration? Magical spells? The elemental plane of fire? I like D&D too but...dude, its only a game.
Canaximander 4 years ago
Best. Answer. Every.
mmafan35 4 years ago
Best. Answer. Ever.
mmafan35 4 years ago
Rael has no idea of what's really going on, it's a shame that his sci-fi crap attracts so much people to put their minds asleep. It's right that the elohim/nephilim/annunaki are the creators of humanity, they mixed monkeys with their own DNA to create the Cro-Magnon until he evolved into the modern human. Evolution is a fact and it is neccesarry. But the real secret of life is not mentoined: Matter is a lowered form of energy and all life came into existence by lowering frequency into form!
SunriseSucks 4 years ago
Did any of you bibliophile spewing mindslaves watch the 2nd video? I know full research isn't you're strongest virtue, but you might want to see it all before you select which verse in your one book you want to come back with.
Canaximander 4 years ago
Thanks mate, cracking comment.
charliegee1111111111 4 years ago
"prove that god does not exist in the PHYSICAL world"
FallenSpartan 4 years ago
Did you watch part 2?
charliegee1111111111 4 years ago
please post this as TEXT on a blog. i'm unable to read like this and my eyes hurt. gimme a link when you can. thanks.
rubentheanswerman 4 years ago
Youre right. God does not exist in the 'physical' world, but have you ever seen the astral planes my friend?
EndTimesApproaching 4 years ago
No, tell me about it, please.
charliegee1111111111 4 years ago
Therefore I will praise you among the nations, O LORD; I will sing praises to your name.
He gives his king great victories; he shows unfailing kindness to his anointed, to David and his descendants forever.
thelightofourworld 4 years ago
Is preachy Bible spam ALL you have, thelightofignorance?
ELECTROGOD 4 years ago
Ahh, I see that thelightofourworld's account has been closed. Hopefully it was due to being a fucking spammer but more likely because they were doing a hit and run spam job under changing names.
ELECTROGOD 4 years ago
What is with these obnoxious xtians. I see this all the time, posting a dozen or more bible verses in row. Who the fuck do they think they are going to convert with that bs, the choir?
Anyway thanks for this vid CG! I'll watch pt.2 now.
hipdead 4 years ago
And your point is.............
charliegee1111111111 4 years ago
The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock!
Exalted be God my Savior! He is the God who avenges me, who subdues nations under me,
who saves me from my enemies. You exalted me above my foes; from violent men you rescued me.
thelightofourworld 4 years ago
You have delivered me from the attacks of the people; you have made me the head of nations; people I did not know are subject to me. As soon as they hear me, they obey me; foreigners cringe before me.
They all lose heart; they come trembling from their strongholds.
thelightofourworld 4 years ago
You armed me with strength for battle;
you made my adversaries bow at my feet. You made my enemies turn their backs in flight, and I destroyed my foes.
They cried for help, but there was no one to save them— to the LORD, but he did not answer.
I beat them as fine as dust borne on the wind; I poured them out like mud in the streets.
thelightofourworld 4 years ago
You give me your shield of victory, and your right hand sustains me; you stoop down to make me great.You broaden the path beneath me, so that my ankles do not turn. I pursued my enemies and overtook them; I did not turn back till they were destroyed.
I crushed them so that they could not rise; they fell beneath my feet.
thelightofourworld 4 years ago
For who is God besides the LORD ? And who is the Rock except our God? It is God who arms me with strength and makes my way perfect.
He makes my feet like the feet of a deer; he enables me to stand on the heights.
He trains my hands for battle; my arms can bend a bow of bronze.
thelightofourworld 4 years ago
You save the humble but bring low those whose eyes are haughty. You, O LORD, keep my lamp burning; my God turns my darkness into light.
With your help I can advance against a troop [d] ; with my God I can scale a wall. As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless. He is a shield for all who take refuge in him.
thelightofourworld 4 years ago
All his laws are before me; I have not turned away from his decrees. I have been blameless before him and have kept myself from sin.
The LORD has rewarded me according to my righteousness, according to the cleanness of my hands in his sight. To the faithful you show yourself faithful, to the blameless you show yourself blameless, to the pure you show yourself pure, but to the crooked you show yourself shrewd.
thelightofourworld 4 years ago
They confronted me in the day of my disaster, but the LORD was my support.
He brought me out into a spacious place; he rescued me because he delighted in me.
The LORD has dealt with me according to my righteousness; according to the cleanness of my hands he has rewarded me.For I have kept the ways of the LORD; I have not done evil by turning from my God.
thelightofourworld 4 years ago
The valleys of the sea were exposed and the foundations of the earth laid bare at your rebuke, O LORD, at the blast of breath from your nostrils.
He reached down from on high and took hold of me; he drew me out of deep waters.
He rescued me from my powerful enemy, from my foes, who were too strong for me.
thelightofourworld 4 years ago
He made darkness his covering, his canopy around him— the dark rain clouds of the sky.
Out of the brightness of his presence clouds advanced, with hailstones and bolts of lightning.
The LORD thundered from heaven; the voice of the Most High resounded. [c]
He shot his arrows and scattered the enemies , great bolts of lightning and routed them.
thelightofourworld 4 years ago
The earth trembled and quaked, and the foundations of the mountains shook; they trembled because he was angry.
Smoke rose from his nostrils; consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it. He parted the heavens and came down; dark clouds were under his feet.He mounted the cherubim and flew; he soared on the wings of the wind.
thelightofourworld 4 years ago
I call to the LORD, who is worthy of praise, and I am saved from my enemies.
The cords of death entangled me; the torrents of destruction overwhelmed me.
The cords of the grave [b] coiled around me; the snares of death confronted me.
In my distress I called to the LORD; I cried to my God for help. From his temple he heard my voice; my cry came before him, into his ears.
thelightofourworld 4 years ago
For the director of music. Of David the servant of the LORD. He sang to the LORD the words of this song when the LORD delivered him from the hand of all his enemies and from the hand of Saul. He said: I love you, O LORD, my strength. The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn [a] of my salvation, my stronghold.
thelightofourworld 4 years ago
why don't u read a bible and then try to disprove the existence of god. and then tell me wat jesus is??? :P
plagu42 4 years ago
ok after i saw i can prove Jesus isnt in the physical world. this video doesnt mean anything. Jesus is a heavenly being.
plagu42 4 years ago
It never said anything about Jesus, I believe Jesus was a prophet, but there is no god. And no Heaven!!
charliegee1111111111 4 years ago
well JESUS IS GOD
plagu42 4 years ago
God just got fucking owned!!!!!!!!!!
boodelicious666 4 years ago
Thank you, this video has strengthened my iman (belief). I am a stronger Muslim watching this, since Islam provides answers to the questions that I didn't know I had, and watching that video I saw that once again. Charlie, you're so close to accepting Islam you don't even know it. Keep digging, you will find truth soon inshaAllah.
MTYKK 4 years ago
All i know is that there is a good & evil force. that we dont understand! & that I choose to be guided by the good what ever it really is. well done charliee1 a really good thought provoking video! :-)
realvworld 4 years ago
Thanks for your comment.
charliegee1111111111 4 years ago
One thing I do know that there is something out there that we can not understand, we have instints & some of us can see ghosts,UFOs ect.. We dont really know where that comes from & religons & belifs have been changed through out the ages.Secrets of history have been kept from us so who really knows.
realvworld 4 years ago
Very open minded thinking and very inspiring.
philiplemon 4 years ago
Suffering is not created by God, it is a consequense of our sining. Now you would say: "But if God can do anything, he could have made it impossible for people to sin, and he could have eliminated all evil". But he wanted man to have free will, and let us make our own decisions. Besides if there would be no evil, there would be nothing to strive for in live, you could accomplish anything without the slightest resistence, and everybody would be happy - it would be totally boring
Supenmanu 4 years ago
But if god knows everything, what free will do we have?
charliegee1111111111 4 years ago
how does our having free will contradict the existence of an omnipotent being? What free will do we have? The choice between acting according to our conscience and not acting according to it. I think that's the only choice we have.
Supenmanu 4 years ago
Simply put, if god created us, knowing everything that we would do, then what we perceive as free will is actually a pre-ordained destiny, in which we do not actually have a choice. If we do have a choice, and can act independently of god's original intent or knowledge, then he is not omniscient.
sproutpits 4 years ago
from what i understand free will is an independent choice. if a god tells you i will send you to hell for choosing other gods and you choose to believe in the particular god that you think said that, then because of fear of hell, its not an independent choice there for not free will, its more like a controld will.
themaniusedtob 4 years ago
"If God created time and space, how can he exist without it?" Rigth, anybody who created our time and space would have to be outside of it. From our perspective this seems unimaginable. But let's use an example: you know the computer game "The Sims". Suppose those computer-people where sentient. They would think: "my mother and father, and everybody i know are computer people, and since i cannot see anything outside the computer simulation, i do not think that there exist anything else"
Supenmanu 4 years ago
Why does the poster have to have a "beef" with god to not believe he exists? I don't believe Santa exists, but I have no hard feelings toward the guy or the people who tried to "cram" his existence down my throat when I was a child. For me, its a simple matter of evidence. I grew up in a pentacostal family, and nothing would make me happier than were there a god.
sproutpits 4 years ago
Thanks for comment.
Much peace and love to you.
xxx
charliegee1111111111 4 years ago
Why does the poster have to have a "beef" with god to not believe he exists? I don't believe Santa exists, but I have no hard feelings toward the guy or the people who tried to "cram" his existence down my throat when I was a child. For me, its a simple matter of evidence. I grew up in a pentacostal family, and nothing would make me happier than were there a god.
sproutpits 4 years ago
Knuckles, if it's beyond human comprehension for something to exist outside of time, and god exists wholly outside of time, then god is wholly outside of human comprehension, and therefore, all supposed human knowledge about him (the Bible, for example), is wrong.
sproutpits 4 years ago
Thanks for the comment.xxx
charliegee1111111111 4 years ago
i can agree with that
themaniusedtob 4 years ago
Its beyond human comprehension for something to exist outside of time. You believe you can disprove concepts that humanity doesn't have the capacity to understand by boxing "god" into your logical fallcies?Are you the type of guy who just believes in the objective, scientific reality and rejects any other form of knowledge?I have no problem with you being an atheist, but let me ask you something. Is your beef with God, or is it just with the ppl who tried to cram religion down your throat?
knuckles00 4 years ago
a two-parter
The way you structure your arguements is completely biassed.According to your video, if God exists... then "this" is true, but "this" can't be true, so God doesn't exist, right? in a nutshell?
I think you aren't really appreciating the ideas of omnipotentce, and infinity.These concepts are not well understood even by the brightest minds.
knuckles00 4 years ago
Nice video. Good contents.
anangel13 5 years ago
Thank you Angel.xx
charliegee1111111111 5 years ago
Thanks for comment.
CG1
charliegee1111111111 5 years ago
Continuation of first comment:
My intention is not to deny the possiblity of a DNA-having "humanist" god. It is, however, to pose that it may be possible to have a different kind of life, one without the biological framework that evolved on earth.
Thanks for putting the work into this that you did.
-Nick
nicksch1404 5 years ago
The following comment will be in 2 parts, since it is over 500 words.
Most of what you had is fairly sound. I am curous about your inference of the "humanist" god (creator, we shall say). From my understanding of natural selection, DNA and life and so forth came about almost by accident. Given the environment, whatever worked stayed, and whatever was better took over.
nicksch1404 5 years ago
Wonderful video - I agree fully.
thesilverseer 5 years ago
Cheers man.
charliegee1111111111 5 years ago
OHHHHHH, I GET IT, you are one of those believers that the aliens created us through cloning and that rael visited their planet blah blah blah, come one man, thats the most load of bullshit i have ever taken in one day, thats like childish right there, aliens, elohim, rael, oh wow, its like a bunch of science fiction geeks gone wild
sakebloom 5 years ago
And i suppose that a magical, mistical being who created the world in 7 days, sounds more truthful - sound like a fairy tale.
charliegee1111111111 5 years ago
Now, if we can only get more people to view these...though I fear the deafening roar of popping heads might obscure the music.
ELECTROGOD 5 years ago
Thanks for comment.
CG1
charliegee1111111111 5 years ago
That is what I have been saying you fewl
scottishcream1467 5 years ago