Until we change our system where Lobbying of politicians is made completely illegal we are doomed.Michael Moore is a socialist piece of shit.We need BALANCE to far to the left or right is not good.
No such thing as human nature only material condisions, when everyone has enough to live by there is no need to be greedy. And if human nature was true there is no reason why it couldn't evolve, just like we don't live in caves like our ancestors did.
The only consideration is equalization. Having only the best of products to be consumed and maintaining a variety. A market should not thrive on just about anything that can be sold, but a market that only accepts the best and takes the best measures of waste management. It should also use the best resources for energy and as anybody who know what a national deficit is, they know that money is in the way, or rather, lack of. Check the graphs, alternatives still scrapes the iceberg for production
There's nothing wrong with reducing the government and making them run more efficiently. Without all these price tags and equations to constantly deal with. They can still deal with the issues of the economy without all the price tags to deal with, and this will cut their work in over half. An equalized incentive with equalized workloads, from the bottom up (shared workloads if necessary) less rush to get the jobs done,no consideration of employment expenses,no consideration of value of products
Planned economy and equal value on products. Equal value by the value completed dismissed. Get the proper jobs done to benefit humanity and the incentive is free whatever. Industry should monitor consumption and regulate where abuse is occuring, abuse considered by a public voting on the specifics. Industry no longer make a profit and no body thinks of the value of employment or bills at the end of the month.People work top sustain and progress humanity, and nobody takes excessive consumption.
I like what Cenk says about capitalism being human nature. I'm unsure as to why he thinks government is automatically a fair rule maker though. All wars have been waged by governments.
A pretty great movie by Moore. He was right Cenk; we DO need a fucking revolution. Even if it's a small "R" revolution. Occupy Wall Street needs to continue and grow.
when did anyone tell us that jesus was a republican? what the hell are they referring to? they just told us he talked to a priest who confirmed that "capitalism is evil" and theyre willing to give him a slap on the hand for that, but then they turned around and denounced the so-called stereotype that "jesus was a republican". look theres alot of christian conservatives, but none of them (even westboro baptist) have told us that jesus has a partisan agenda. not on my watch. noone says that.
@firegod001 Absolutely not if you must know. Everything that I have and own i EARNED it, and weasels like Moore and his followers feel entitle to it. Moore is a 100% hypocrite
@IslamistTube3 Moore feels ENTITLED? He earned his money, too, and he's saying that he should pay his fair share. That sounds SELFLESS to me, smartass.
@firegod001 Moore's one talent, aside from overindulgence, is separating left-wing idiots, like Firepansy001, from their cash by selling them vitriol and propaganda.
@firegod001 Nothing is stopping Moore from writing the government a check if he wants to. What Moore wants to do is get other people to pay more taxes. That is hardly selfless.
@IslamistTube3 And how is that being hypocritical? Ooooh. Bad liberal who complains about unfairness in the system actually makes a lot of MONEY! MUST be a hypocrite! No, you weren't slow in school at all.................................................................
@firegod001 Should a 400 lb man advise us on the evils of over-consumption?
Should the resident of a million-dollar apartment claim to be a poster boy of the working class? Should a person who thought that Enron was a great investment, that Ralph Nader, Wesley Clark and John Kerry would win, and that North Korea's Kim Jong was changing for the better, advise us on ANYTHING? What do you have against money, go out and make and stop taking mine, I earned mine. Pitiful socialists
@IslamistTube3 None of those things are hypocritical because they either don't have anything to do with each other, or you are misrepresenting him or both. Moore earned his money as well, asswipe. Even Reagan said that we need to get rid of the corruption and loopholes and make the rich pay their fair share. When he says it, oh he's being reasonable. If a liberal or a Democrat says it, their waging class warfare and being socialist assholes. You're as clear as glass, moron.
@firegod001 "asswipe""moron"NICE Moore has been busted on every movie he's made in one way or another. Bottom line is Michael Moore isn't the least bit interested in an objective representation of fact. He has an left-wing agenda and anything that falls outside the narrative for that agenda is either ignored or completely misrepresented. But his movies still sell among the left for the same reason fox news is popular on the right: Both have no problem with lying, as long as it's in their favor.
voting is an illusion.. when u vote for two sides of the same coin or when the voting machines are rigged what good is voting ? u get the same monster
***PEOPLE, PLEASE READ MY *COMMENTS IN THE YOUTUBE VIDEO “MICHAEL MOORE VISITS MADISON”!!! (THE ONE WITH OVER 500,000 VIEWS. MY COMMENTS BEGIN ON COMMENT PAGE 2)
No such thing as human nature, only Nurture!! Indigionus peoples of the amazon for example, with no influence of corperate culture, will not want everything for nothing, will not sell his grandmothers teeth for materialistic posessions. Everything we do and know is taught and learned through even the smallest of lifes lessons
You guys are Dolt's, Reagans tax cuts allowed the economy to flurish. You call yourselve's the middle, you are the Socialists. Moore is flat out a Communist. There are too many items to list defending that statement. All of your ideas have been tried before and failed. Why you guys continue to attempt your socialist ideology on the rest of us is insanity. It never works, look at Europe, look at the Soviet Union, look at North Korea. You are Wrong. Listen to Levin and some commone sense.
The government should NOT be interferring in the private sector. Over-regulation and government interferrence is what led to this financial collapse (look at the Community Reinvestment Act). The government WILL be bought off by businessmen, and it's an unorganized mess, why give them MORE power to 'oversee' everything?
@dunkelfier Exactly. And what else would have happened when lending standards were forcibly lowered for unqualified borrowers? It was bound to collapse.
@FitnessByMatt Bound to collapse: aka, the borrowing scheme. It could work without the borrowing scheme and the varying price tags to get the jobs done. Often we've seen excessive price tags and far too low incentives/wages. Obama should not make 400k per year. Obama should make the incentive based on his overal productivity. Was it really worth 400k? Unfair Political strategies are also bound to collapse once exposed enough
Okay no doubt that capitalism is the only truly effective system of economics. Its work longer than socialism by far and in the end tax cuts make more sence than paying more taxes so that tax payers can continue not to use social programs
@TriColorMonk "Okay no doubt that capitalism is the only truly effective system of economics"
Based on what if i may ask...? In principle, capitalism is the essence of human nature, survival of the fittest, evolution if u may, but the only truly effective system of economics, really? And the US is the prime example of this right, I mean, they only have an enormous deficit as a result of lack of regulation, seems very effective indeed... I'm going to assume you've never heard of Scandinavia....
Woodrow Wilson (Democrat) was the 1st one to replace America's massive tarriffs with an income tax.
Bill Clinton (Democrat) lowered America's tarriffs to an all time low of 2.5% infact USA has a the lowest tarriff rates world wide
JFK (Democratic icon and my idol) first proposed supply side Economics as a counter measure to the 1959 recession. "An across the board tax cut that will in the create more growth, more jobs and in the long run more government revenue"
@Salvysahagun That comment doesn't even make any sense, are you implying scandinavians use wagons in every day life....? The sheer amount of WTF in that comment still baffles me, please stop confusing me with fallafel logic to quote Keith Olbermann.
I'm sorry but who's idea was it to profitably provide mainstream automobiles to poor and middle class people... Henry Ford an American.
If you dig into Nordic nations history you'd find all of their major employeers where created during their free market era.
Sweden always has been a successful nation. Thier Economic culture is what makes them a prosperous nation. The same way Swedes in America are successful.
Capitalism is a useful and efficient tool. However, tools can be used by evil - so much so that efficiency is no longer capped by morality. And in this world, there are a lot of people who favour efficiency.
no. whats evil is communism, a system that killed 45 million in less than 4 year during the so-called "great leap forward" in china, a system that killed 60 million Russians in purges and the gulag, a system that has people shot for trying to leave the country. read Solzhenitsyn for gods' sake. or google "Korean peninsula at night".
@TheTollundWoman No. Although I don't think communism is the right alternative to capitalism, the system that killed all those people in Russia & China was 'dictatorship', not communism. You are confusing Karl Marx with Stalin/Mao. What Karl Marx talked about never came true, China and Russia never went through the proper evolution of civilization. You can't skip straight to communism. You need to have gone through the middle step capitalism&democracy. That's why their economies failed
Marx himself stated unequivocally "Every political setup following a revolution requires a dictatorship, and an energetic dictatorship at that." He also advocated state control of the means of communication i.e. what we would now call social media, state ownership of industry, forced collectivization of agriculture, and the abolition of private property.
None of the main objectives of communism would be possible without dictatorship, Marx himself admitted that, and the only societies that have fulfilled any of the goals outlined in the communist manifesto are totalitarian states like N.Korea.
"You need to have gone through the middle step capitalism & democracy." Russia prior to 1917 had a democratically elected legislature (the Duma) and the fastest growing economy anywhere in Europe. China was a democratic republic from 1911 to 1949. North Korea prior to 1945 was the most economically developed region in continental asia.
China is the oldest continual civilization anywhere in the world, prior to the Industrial revolution it was the richest country anywhere in the world, the equivalent of say, Luxembourg today. The nation that invented the printing press "never went through the proper evolution of civilization"?? and I suppose Tsarist Russia, with Dostoevsky and Tchaikovsky, wasn't a "properly evolved civilization" either?
@TheTollundWoman Remember, Karl Marx proposed communism to fix the problems of wealth gaps of the poor and the rich. Because capitalism at its core - will always result in class division, with 1% of the billionaires owning everything and the rest being 'Proletariat's. Let me ask you, IS THIS NOT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN AMERICA RIGHT NOW? To truly build a soceity that's of the people, for the people, by the people, it needs to be RUN BY the people not lobbyists and corporations.
@TheTollundWoman At the same time, communism is just another end of the extreme. a version of communism(it's not exactly correct terminology but you get my drift) where they did accept the idea of taking the wealth from super rich to the general population and mixed that with democracy and capitalism, called socialism, has been working well in countries like Germany, Finland, Norway etc. Capitalism at its core is evil. It promotes greed and selfindulgence and selfishness. It must be fixed.
Capitalism promotes "greed, self-indulgence and selfishness." Right. Because there's nothing 'selfish' about personality cults, leader-worship and hereditary succession. Nothing 'self-indulgent' about spending your national budget importing cognac and swiss watches, while your citizens starve. If the worst case scenario in capitalism ("the top 1% own everything) represents capitalism in general, what about the worst case scenario in communism?
@TheTollundWoman Capitalism is very good economy ideally, but is very easily corrupted, it doesnt promote those thing, those are the actions of corrupted minds behind the blinds. A free market economy is good for any nation. I all for believe michael moore, is a socialist fuck tard, who is an ignorant, narrow minded, sell-out. Socialism is not bad, but I believe its not very good either, the idea of taking money of other ppls pockets and putting them into others. I am not rich either..
hahahaha, over 700,000 PAGES of new regulations have been added the federal register ALONE over the past decade. The sub-prime sector is among teh most regulated in teh financial industry.
It has nothing to do with a lack of regulations. Regulations make small bsuinesses unable to compete with larger established businesses, and so the NATURAL regulation of the MARKET is unable to function: competition. And so, regulations make things worse.
hahah moore and all of you people are compelte morons.
The government cretared this mess, the government bailed out teh banks after they fucked everything up, and your answer is that we need the government to fix things?
It all comes down to the rationality principle... People only care about their own self-interests. It WILL always be like that no matter what kind of system you try to implement in society. Unfortunately, capitalism does pamper greed due to private enterprise. SO, the real question is... How do we change the system? Any thoughts?
its not capitalism that is evil. greed is what is evil. self indulgence to the point of social apathy is evil. people living in 30 million dollar monuments to ego are downright repugnant especially given the degree of poverty that is typically located within blocks of these gated community castles
The reason we cannot go back to the high tax rates for of the 1950s is because globalization has made it too easy for companies to simply outsource if they do not like the tax rate, so ironicaly you shrink the total tax intake by trying to raise taxes
@TechnoDevotee That's why we need a global agreement to harmonise tax rates, impose a robin hood-tax on the financial industry, prioritize Fair trade before Free Trade, outlaw tax havens and to create a minimum level with regards to wages, influence, security and working conditions. That way we create a level playing field and the people in the third world will have a much better life and we will be able to compete with them and stop the Race to the bottom.
Oh, I see. So cenk thinks the problem was too little government regulation! I wonder if he's talking about the same government regulation that caused the financial crisis. Whenever government gets involved in the market, they tend to mess it up. Just like when they set interest rates, and just like when the central bank got involved... Just let the free market do its job!
@Chaaarge Little-government regulation led to letting these banks and businesses form corporate monopolies, buy out politicians, break federal laws, screw over their employees, and literally gamble US citizen's tax payer money. What in the hell are you talking about, "Whenever government gets involved in the market, they tend to mess it up", are you out of your effin mind! All the evidence is there, tryto learn actual economics.More government regulation would of prevented this economic disaster
@axv375 Why did it happen? Let’s go back, when Fannie Mae, was under pressure by the Clinton administration to find a way to get more loans to “borrowers whose incomes, credit ratings and savings are not good enough to qualify for conventional loans.” A (government) program was launched, which soon became general policy. Money flowed to people who couldn’t afford to pay it back. So as I said, government effed things up. of course I'm not blaming fannie and freddie for everything, just an example
Capitalism is evil, the only reason it sounds silly is because well... most people are still savages.
In the future (if capitalism allows for there to BE a future!) calling capitalism evil will be almost inane, because it so obviously is and no one disagrees.
It's the same as how in the slavery era if you called slavery evil, most people would disagree, it was just human nature that superior races dominated inferior ones! That's what they would have said, and honestly believed.
Cenk also proves again one simple thing. Moderates have no balls whatsoever.
Seriously Cenk, you honestly believe that flavourless 'oh oh we're in the middle' crap, or are you just trying to not offend rightards who hate you per default for not being a fellow rightard, and who would probably still consider you an undesirable based on your background if you WHERE on their side?
That's the problem, almost no one wants to take the fucking gloves of against the right already.
@Shavarnarak What the fuck? Capitalism has created the greatest improvements in the living standards of the common man all across the world. It's by far the most successful economic model ever implemented; compare it to medieval mercantilism or communism. I had no idea that providing a better life for billions of people was evil. Capitalism has done more good in the world than the actions of any one man ever could.
He is saying that the tax breaks are bad, but if rich people have more money, won't the rest have more too. Plus, Ronald Reagan gave tax cuts to everyone.
Why can't people see concepts like capitalism and socialism as tools, not absolutes? Find out what creates the greatest amount of good for the greatest number of people, and you've found the right system. That said, while I'm not "anti-capitalist", I don't buy the materialist notion that people necessarily want as much as they can get. People want to do what they are good at, and what makes them feel valued. Look at aspiring entertainers who forfeit steady jobs to do what they love?
@Libertyjack1 Because you have brainwashed egomaniacs like ethermeister around that would rather win arguments by denying every fact presented and reality itself instead of trying to be correct and truthful. They run on confirmation bias, they acknowledge the good parts of capitalism but completely ignore the bad or come up with some insane unbacked excuse for it and continue to argue its a perfect system. They attach themselves to something and then defend it zealously.
Although I don't agree a lot of it, I still think this is a great review. I'm a socialist. I think the term you're looking for is social democracy, which is implementing socialistic values while keeping capitalism. That's the REAL centrist position on the left-right spectrum, I believe. I like this review because they're right: there needs to be a far-left so the balance is kept. I'm ready to compromise with the true centrists like TYT even though I'm more on Moore's side.
Capitalism is an unfair system. All the wealth goes to the capitalists. They become rich, while the workers must sell their labour to survive.
Beside capitalism is not democratic. Only the capitalists have the rights to decide what to do with all the wealth they created.
I don't say we must nationalize all businesses. The big companies must be put under democratic control of society. The TYT is wrong about capitalism. But I know they are only social liberals and not socialists.
@SPQRomantic I agree, capitalism is far from being natural. In fact, I think communism is much closer to natural; I haven't heard anyone disagree with the view that pre-agricultural societies were and still are, in modern terms "communist". The community works as a whole with each person doing their job for the common good. That's communism and that's what inspired Marx.
@Tuuliska To add to my last comment: On the other hand, capitalism is a very recent system. That doesn't mean it's necessarily "evil" (although I'm all for having that argument) but it definitely doesn't make it any more "natural" than any other system.
I have a couple of problems with both the review and the movie itself. First of all, it's corporatism that's evil, not capitalism. My second objection is that the reviewer was wrong for saying "we need someone to look out for us". All the government has to do on the market is to make sure there's no fraud and breaking of basic property laws etc...
A fair review. It's about time socialism ceases to be a dirty word. Arnie claimed that he left Europe because socialism stifles opportunity, supposedly. However if it stifles someone else's opportunity to make millions screwing you over (or from your death) then I'm all for it.
Yeah, capitalism is so disastrous, right? That's why it's brought such wealth and prosperity to the western world, right? Name me one thing that is 'disastrous' about capitalism that isn't influenced by government controls.
Let me give you a brief history on socialism/communism. Joseph Stalin brought widespread famine to the Soviet Union, killing millions. Mao Zedong brought famine to China, killing over 40 million people. Hugo Chavez's housing policy has brought housing shortages.
@Ilikemustard Hello? Global recession? Caused by deregulation of financial markets and promoton of desire to generate money for nothing? How dare you write socialism/communism as though they were the same thing. Ideological Capitalism has resulted in its share of famines, too, incidentally, from Ireland to India, with governments refusing to redistribute stockpiled supplies because this would interfere with market forces.
Hello! The recession was not caused by 'deregulation', as the government has increasingly regulated the market. You have no idea what you're talking about.
There were a number of factors contributing to the recession, including the bailouts required for banks that were FORCED to hand out subprime loans to people they would not normally loan to, as well as the USA's rampant spending.
What do you mean by 'generate money for nothing'? How does one do this?
I will write socialism/communism as if they're the same thing, because they are almost indentical in their economic policies. They are almost identical in the way they affect an economy.
Let's see your demonstration of why capitalism results in famines.
"governments refusing to redistribute"
Oh, look at that! Govenment intervention! That isn't capitalism you fucking idiot. Stop trying to debate things you don't understand, economic illiterate.
@Ilikemustard The decision not to intervene in markets (even for humanitarian reasons) in order to let the free market take its course is absolutely linked to capitalist ideology. If you sanction the redistribution of money, goods or food from somewhere where there is a surplus to somewhere where there is a wont then you are a socialist. You are supporting a controlled economy. It seems to be you who lacks understanding, as well as civility.
Yes, a market without government intervention is linked to capitalism. Which is why "governments refusing to redistribute stockpiled supplies" is NOT capitalism, because that involves government intervention. You used this as an argument for why capitalism creates famine.
Are you really this stupid? Come on.
Good job trying to refute only ONE of my arguments by the way.
You worded that terribly. You made it sound as if the government itself owned a stockpile of food, and refused to let anyone have it. Regardless, I took the liberty to read about The Great Irish Famine and discovered that I was correct anyway - It WAS caused by government intervention, and not a free market.
Let's see. Firstly, many other countries were afraid of experiencing famine themselves, and as a result BANNED exports of food. (note, this is government intervention)
Due to this, Ireland's ability to import an adequate food supply was greatly diminished.
Next, Ireland had a terrible law in place: The Corn Law. This made it illegal to import any grains or cereal crops into Ireland (corn does not refer to maize in this context). Not only was this disastrous during the famine, as Ireland was unable to import cheap grain to feed their starving populous, it drastically increased the price of grain.
Now, when the famine came around, the price of grain rose even more as there was a very high demand for it due to the lack of potatos. Most lower class citizens were unable to afford it. If The Corn Law was not in place, Ireland could have imported grain for a very cheap price, which the lower class could afford.
One last point I would like to make, though there are several more, is that Ireland had been conquered by England.
Many of Ireland's working class were serfs that were forced to work on English owned land, for very little money. Due to this, they were unable to afford to buy food, and depended on the leftover potatoes they grew to survive. So when the potato disease spread, they had no food.
So let's see, every single point I've just made is a form of government intervention. Misunderstanding or not, I am still correct about the cause of the famine.
@Ilikemustard I'm aware of the historical background of the Irish famine but it's undeniable that the British government of the day was favouring laissez faire capitalism. Corn was exported from Ireland throughout the famine era. No one is advocating the mass state seizures and collectivizations that contributed to famine conditions in the early USSR, but state interventions to redress glaring social injustices and economic exploitation.
REAL Free energy technology exists!But a few ppl make too many billions from our energy needs to let this technology be known,if you want a real Free energy Magnet Motor, get the blueprints at LT-MAGNET-MOTORdotCOM ,Let the revolution begin!
@lutherarao HAHAHAHAHAAA!!!! a magnet motor? yea, I'v heard of free energy devices before, and they're all laughable. if a perpetual motion machine existed it would already be in use today.
@ethermeister We actually have those, using magnetism. Its not free energy, but it works off the magnetic charges on certain objects. You do realize we can levitate things in cold temperatures using magnetism right?
@Shyhalu and what do levetation and superconductors have to do with what I was talking about? a magnet motor refers to a motor that works using only magnets and produces more energy than it consumes. it doesn't exist. it would break the law of conservation of energy.
@ethermeister Levitation is essentially free energy. It holds up an object, applying enough force to overcome gravity. Those motors do exist, but they are in really early stages so I dont know how well they work. 1. Particle physics broke the law of gravity, its a theory now, so theres no reason why conservation of energy needs to uphold. 2. I doubt it does that if it works off of virtual particles colliding into eachother. We'll know more when we fully understand particle physics.
@Shyhalu levitation is not free energy. which kind of levitation are you refering to? magnetic, electromagnetic or superconductive? those are the only three I know of and they ALL require energy except magnetic which doesn't actually move anything or exert any energy. it just holds an object stationary. free energy is logically and physically impossible and is laughed at almost univerally by most people who are accomplished or knowlegable about physics.
@ethermeister I said essentially, if you create a magnetic field, you can levitate objects. You are not smart enough to continue this discussion, so just drop it. Especially if you think gravity is still a law. Gravity DOES NOT effect things on the tiny scale, thus its not a law and was converted to a theory AWHILE AGO. So just drop it until you obtain an education.
@Shyhalu@Shyhalu and what does levetation have to do with free energy? how is a stationary floating object performing any work. and I know gravity is just a theory. but the phrase "law of gravity" has been woven into common language. and gravity still effects things on the quantum level. just not in the same way. and by the way, what sort of education do you have on the subject?
@Shyhalu particle physics hasn't broken the law of gravity. it's impossible to make that statement since scientists are still attempting to use particles to explain gravity. how could anyone make that claim without knowing what correlation the two have? the higgs bozon is still just an idea that no one can prove the existence of.
@Shyhalu if any source of free energy existed then everyone would be using it to power their homes. I've seen many claims about free energy and each invention I've seen is always built by a single person with little to no knowlege about what they're doing and I've never seen an invention actually being used to power someone's home or even any small device. I've also never seen a group of real professionals try with any success to build such a device because they all know it's pointless.
M. Moore does NOT make documentaries. He has his agenda and builds his story around it. I like his movies, though. Capitalism isn't evil per se. Maybe "money" is. But what are the alternatives? The socialist-comunist experiences we had were disastrous.
Step 1: Government makes all Banks back up their gold in bonds.
causes crash of 1908
Step 2: Federal Reserve Act of 1913 as well as 16th amendment.
causes Great Depression.
BONUS: at Woodrow Wilson's death bed he states "unwittingly I have ruined my country"
Step 3 1990's Clinton(government) starts Housing Subsidy and forces banks to give out bad loans. as well as the Fed (GOV) dropping interest rates causes Great Recession of 2008
Agriculture, manufacturers, commerce, and navigation, the four pillars of our prosperity, are then most thriving when left most free to INDIVIDUAL enterprise- Alexander Hamilton
-The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.- Thomas Jefferson
-A wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their OWN pursuits of industry.
I'm a big fan of Moore and I've been on his side on almost all the issues. However I dislike the way he makes his movies. He takes people out of context, spins words and sometimes takes facts and turns them on their head just to make his point.
He could make a movie just as strong without resorting to these methods.
Communism doesn't mean no one owns anything. Communism is when everyone owns everything. Communism is the communal ownership over the means of production.
it's a clever strategy from Moore. When he was anti-republican, anti-gun, anti-whatever else, the American public saw him as a loon. Now that he has recruited Jesus the masses will support him no matter what crazy shit he says
Asking priests about what's moral? That's about as misdirecting as you get. That said..Fatty didn't make a bad movie, a lot of good stuff, as Cenk said, lots of stupid bits too tho.
But when it is so easily manipulated to become evil... it makes you wonder why we allow it in the first place. Socialism is a functional system people, its not communism, socialism =/= communism. The difference, you have a choice.
Capitalism doesn't support technology. If it did, we'd all have solar powered homes, cars, and offices right now. We have the technology, we don't use it because of the amount of profit the energy and car industry make off of using old and outdated garbage technology. Our computers get more and more powerful each year, yet we are still running on 80+ year old fuel technology.
@Shyhalu correction: capitolism does not support FAILED technology. solar power is expensive and inconvenient and will not survive in the free market without subsidies. solar is still in its research stage. it's not ready to take over the industry yet.
@ethermeister No its not. We have solar panels in which you could break in half and the parts still intact will function properly. Thats is NOT failed technology. The technology allows us to draw energy from a source thats going to last over a billion years rather than maybe 20 years due to exponential growth.
@Shyhalu then shouldn't we use that time to develop the technology until it is attractive enough to the average consumer that it can survive the free market without help? and what do broken solar cells have to do with this? that's kind of a pointless argument don't you think?
@ethermeister Oil is finite, it takes tons of time to produce from fossils. The fact is solar power is superior to oil in every way, you don't even need to transport it and you can store excess power into a battery (moon light works some too) for night time. Capitalism does not support the technology becuase it means killing tons of jobs, including truckers, tankers, gas stations, etc.
@Shyhalu there's still many many years worth of fossil fuel left in the world and we shouldn't just stop utilizing it when it's still the most convenient thing out there to provide power. so, let's compare solar to fossil fuels and see which is superior. fossil fuels have an energy efficiency of from 30 to 50%. solar gets 12 to 20%. ten gallons of gas weighing only 62 pounds will make my car go for 200 miles whereas is it takes almost a thousand pounds of batteries to accomplish the same task.
@Shyhalu your argument about loss of jobs is also invalid because where fossil fuel jobs would die green jobs would fill the gap so it makes no difference with the only cost being infrastructure change. didn't you ever take economics in highschool? but an industry that's still in the research stage will not support that much job growth. it needs more time to develope before it is efficient enough to be attractive to the average consumer.
@ethermeister Actually, you know what? Forget eveyrthing I just said and answer this. What happens when factories are completly automated and no longer require humans?
@ethermeister Solar power is just one aspect of the problem. The same issue deals with automated cash registers, factory machines, cars , vaccums (The roombas) and etc. Automation leads to a net loss of jobs, which capitalism can not handle very well.
@Shyhalu capitolism and money DRIVE technological advancement. "make a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door". some good ideas sell well right off the bat. but others need to improve before people will buy.
@Shyhalu and automation doesn't lead to a loss of jobs. it leads to a cheaper product and less work for those wanting to buy it. it doesn't mean less jobs it just means less work. have you ever read "anthem"? just read it. it explains my point perfectly.
@ethermeister So, CORRECTION, capitalism does not support superior technology. Tell me, what job does one take when robots will handle all of the factory work that people use to do? The thing is, you simply dont understand what failed technology is. Failed technology is tech that does not work. Take away money and what argument do you have against solar power? None. NONE. That is not failed technology, but a market system holding technology back
@Shyhalu try to run a plane on solar power and then tell me that it's superior to oil. and the market does not hold technology back. it holds FAILED technology back. if someone tries to sell me solar power for a price many times what it would cost to simply buy power from the grid I'm not going to take the more expensive option just......cause. I'm going to buy what is more cost effective.
@ethermeister "I'm going to buy what is more cost effective.", my point exactly. This is the market holding better technology back due to money. Take out money, and then tell me why a near limitless energy source, which does not require trucks and tankers to transport, entire factories to burn it, is not a danger to the environment (nuclear waste and oil spills, etc), can be stored in a battery, and requires no power lines to transport it is not better than the stuf fwe areno w using?
@Shyhalu because money is a fact of life and is the biggest incentive to produce something. the market does not hold back better technology. it buys massive quantities of it. what is your solution to that? do away with money all together?
@ethermeister Its a fact of life in a capitalistic society. Its holding back solar power right now. One or two panels is enough to power a home, and batteries aren ot na issue, as we have small generators that already serve as portable energy.
Getting rid of money would be cool, but the mindset of our species is not capable of handling it. Right now, most people need to be bribed to do something that benefits our species.
@Shyhalu money drives almost everything. why should I do something without an incentive? why should I buy expensive solar panels when I can just pay my cheap electric bill? are you saying we should just convince everyone to go solar because oil is going to run out even though solar is expensive?
@ethermeister Thanks for demonstrating what I meant when I said most of our species needs to be bribed. Solar is expensive because capitalism and money get in the way, THUS its holding better technology back and slowing development.
@Shyhalu money and capitolism DRIVE technological advancement. "build a better mousetrap and the world will build a road to your door". when someone comes up with a good idea he sells it and at the same time makes the world a little bit more efficient. on the other hand: when a person comes up with a good idea and nobody buys it he just needs to improve it and try again.
@Shyhalu so you're saying that we should get rid of not only currency but THE VERY CONCEPT OF TRADE!!!???? how the hell would society function even at the most basic lever without currency and trade???!!!!
@ethermeister How can society function? Oh gee, I don't know, how about by not being greedy selfish that need to be bribed to make this world a better place, like you? Society can function the same way a family functions. Your family does not charge you rent, does make you pay for food in the fridge etc etc.
@Shyhalu society can't function like a family. we've tried it in america during colonial times. it's called communism and it destroys every single country it touches. not everyone likes eachother as much as a family does. and there are a lot of disfunctional families.
@ethermeister Anyway, we are not continuing this discussion until you admit that solar power is a better technology, and no, price does not make something better.
@Shyhalu too late, I already saw it and your argument is invalid because you ignored one factor. solar to fossil does not equal healthfood to mcdonalds. ELECTRICITY IS ELECTRICITY. both fossil and solar produce an IDENTICAL product. but: fossil fuels produce it at a lower price. THAT MAKES IT BETTER. nothing you or anyone can do will change the fact that MONEY WILL ALWAYS BE A FACTOR. you can't just ignore it. it won't go away.
@ethermeister If you can not agree that an energy technology that does not require power lines, does not require entire factories with workers, does not require oil rigs and mining equipment, does not need tankers and truckers, can be accessed globally, and will last us over a million times longer than alternatives, simply because you can't understand that money is being taken out of the equation, then you are not intelligent enough to continue this conversation. We're done here.
@Shyhalu money will always be part of the equation weather you like it or not. I refuse to continue this pointless argument on the basis that I have a life.
@ethermeister Take money out of the equation and tell me which is better. I'm not interested in talking with an idiot, so until you can do that theres no point in continuing.
Cenk is usually a complete idiot, but this was thoughtful and substantive. Well done. Less ranting and more thoughtful thinking.
DocGG81 6 days ago
Until we change our system where Lobbying of politicians is made completely illegal we are doomed.Michael Moore is a socialist piece of shit.We need BALANCE to far to the left or right is not good.
tinman5680 2 weeks ago
No United States wasn't great economically in 50s-60s because of taxes, it was great because you had no competition.
iippo06 1 month ago
No such thing as human nature only material condisions, when everyone has enough to live by there is no need to be greedy. And if human nature was true there is no reason why it couldn't evolve, just like we don't live in caves like our ancestors did.
iippo06 1 month ago
The only consideration is equalization. Having only the best of products to be consumed and maintaining a variety. A market should not thrive on just about anything that can be sold, but a market that only accepts the best and takes the best measures of waste management. It should also use the best resources for energy and as anybody who know what a national deficit is, they know that money is in the way, or rather, lack of. Check the graphs, alternatives still scrapes the iceberg for production
luc59457 1 month ago
There's nothing wrong with reducing the government and making them run more efficiently. Without all these price tags and equations to constantly deal with. They can still deal with the issues of the economy without all the price tags to deal with, and this will cut their work in over half. An equalized incentive with equalized workloads, from the bottom up (shared workloads if necessary) less rush to get the jobs done,no consideration of employment expenses,no consideration of value of products
luc59457 1 month ago
Planned economy and equal value on products. Equal value by the value completed dismissed. Get the proper jobs done to benefit humanity and the incentive is free whatever. Industry should monitor consumption and regulate where abuse is occuring, abuse considered by a public voting on the specifics. Industry no longer make a profit and no body thinks of the value of employment or bills at the end of the month.People work top sustain and progress humanity, and nobody takes excessive consumption.
luc59457 1 month ago
I like what Cenk says about capitalism being human nature. I'm unsure as to why he thinks government is automatically a fair rule maker though. All wars have been waged by governments.
FitnessByMatt 2 months ago
So did Michael Moore produce this movie using socialist principles or did he get paid more than his cameraman?
FitnessByMatt 2 months ago
A pretty great movie by Moore. He was right Cenk; we DO need a fucking revolution. Even if it's a small "R" revolution. Occupy Wall Street needs to continue and grow.
ridewave444 2 months ago
when did anyone tell us that jesus was a republican? what the hell are they referring to? they just told us he talked to a priest who confirmed that "capitalism is evil" and theyre willing to give him a slap on the hand for that, but then they turned around and denounced the so-called stereotype that "jesus was a republican". look theres alot of christian conservatives, but none of them (even westboro baptist) have told us that jesus has a partisan agenda. not on my watch. noone says that.
aeorta5 3 months ago
Tyt you are left and Moore is socialist. You sound like fox saying they're objective. Just admit that you're WAY left.
dmcarefuldriver 3 months ago
Everyone knows why the Articles of Confederations failed right? -,,-
animefreek217 4 months ago
Do you think Michael Moore got beat up in school, you know the chubby ugly white kid that even girls beat him up; and now he's lashing out like baby?
Yeah, I do...
IslamistTube3 5 months ago
@IslamistTube3 No, but I do wonder if you were the dumbass kid who had to cheat or buy answers to make it.
firegod001 4 months ago
@firegod001 Absolutely not if you must know. Everything that I have and own i EARNED it, and weasels like Moore and his followers feel entitle to it. Moore is a 100% hypocrite
IslamistTube3 4 months ago
@IslamistTube3 Moore feels ENTITLED? He earned his money, too, and he's saying that he should pay his fair share. That sounds SELFLESS to me, smartass.
firegod001 4 months ago
@firegod001 Moore's one talent, aside from overindulgence, is separating left-wing idiots, like Firepansy001, from their cash by selling them vitriol and propaganda.
RadarGuidedVermin 2 months ago
@firegod001 Nothing is stopping Moore from writing the government a check if he wants to. What Moore wants to do is get other people to pay more taxes. That is hardly selfless.
FitnessByMatt 2 months ago
@IslamistTube3 And how is that being hypocritical? Ooooh. Bad liberal who complains about unfairness in the system actually makes a lot of MONEY! MUST be a hypocrite! No, you weren't slow in school at all.................................................................
firegod001 4 months ago 2
@firegod001 Should a 400 lb man advise us on the evils of over-consumption?
Should the resident of a million-dollar apartment claim to be a poster boy of the working class? Should a person who thought that Enron was a great investment, that Ralph Nader, Wesley Clark and John Kerry would win, and that North Korea's Kim Jong was changing for the better, advise us on ANYTHING? What do you have against money, go out and make and stop taking mine, I earned mine. Pitiful socialists
IslamistTube3 4 months ago
@IslamistTube3 None of those things are hypocritical because they either don't have anything to do with each other, or you are misrepresenting him or both. Moore earned his money as well, asswipe. Even Reagan said that we need to get rid of the corruption and loopholes and make the rich pay their fair share. When he says it, oh he's being reasonable. If a liberal or a Democrat says it, their waging class warfare and being socialist assholes. You're as clear as glass, moron.
firegod001 4 months ago
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@firegod001 "asswipe""moron"NICE Moore has been busted on every movie he's made in one way or another. Bottom line is Michael Moore isn't the least bit interested in an objective representation of fact. He has an left-wing agenda and anything that falls outside the narrative for that agenda is either ignored or completely misrepresented. But his movies still sell among the left for the same reason fox news is popular on the right: Both have no problem with lying, as long as it's in their favor.
IslamistTube3 4 months ago
@firegod001 Michael Moore bashes the top 1% of wealth earners while he IS the top 1%.
Do I need to explain why that is hypocritical?
FitnessByMatt 2 months ago
voting is an illusion.. when u vote for two sides of the same coin or when the voting machines are rigged what good is voting ? u get the same monster
xadam2dudex 5 months ago
Michael Moore is EVIL!
He's also a big fat disgusting HYPOCRITICAL CAPITALIST SLOB!
suzukispecialists 5 months ago
@suzukispecialists jealous huh ?
xadam2dudex 5 months ago
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***PEOPLE, PLEASE READ MY *COMMENTS IN THE YOUTUBE VIDEO “MICHAEL MOORE VISITS MADISON”!!! (THE ONE WITH OVER 500,000 VIEWS. MY COMMENTS BEGIN ON COMMENT PAGE 2)
ObiWanGinobiliTopFan 6 months ago
No such thing as human nature, only Nurture!! Indigionus peoples of the amazon for example, with no influence of corperate culture, will not want everything for nothing, will not sell his grandmothers teeth for materialistic posessions. Everything we do and know is taught and learned through even the smallest of lifes lessons
jimmyc1983afc 6 months ago
You guys are Dolt's, Reagans tax cuts allowed the economy to flurish. You call yourselve's the middle, you are the Socialists. Moore is flat out a Communist. There are too many items to list defending that statement. All of your ideas have been tried before and failed. Why you guys continue to attempt your socialist ideology on the rest of us is insanity. It never works, look at Europe, look at the Soviet Union, look at North Korea. You are Wrong. Listen to Levin and some commone sense.
BuckDuncan1975 6 months ago
wow, these guys are wussies.
dementiadeath 7 months ago
FDR CAPITALISM WORKED GOP VERSION OF CAPITALISM IS EVIL !!!
kn9ioutom 7 months ago
These idiots sound just like my 11th grade US History teacher.
Salvysahagun 7 months ago 2
The government should NOT be interferring in the private sector. Over-regulation and government interferrence is what led to this financial collapse (look at the Community Reinvestment Act). The government WILL be bought off by businessmen, and it's an unorganized mess, why give them MORE power to 'oversee' everything?
dunkelfier 7 months ago 2
@dunkelfier Exactly. And what else would have happened when lending standards were forcibly lowered for unqualified borrowers? It was bound to collapse.
FitnessByMatt 2 months ago
@FitnessByMatt Bound to collapse: aka, the borrowing scheme. It could work without the borrowing scheme and the varying price tags to get the jobs done. Often we've seen excessive price tags and far too low incentives/wages. Obama should not make 400k per year. Obama should make the incentive based on his overal productivity. Was it really worth 400k? Unfair Political strategies are also bound to collapse once exposed enough
luc59457 1 month ago
Okay no doubt that capitalism is the only truly effective system of economics. Its work longer than socialism by far and in the end tax cuts make more sence than paying more taxes so that tax payers can continue not to use social programs
TriColorMonk 7 months ago
@TriColorMonk "Okay no doubt that capitalism is the only truly effective system of economics"
Based on what if i may ask...? In principle, capitalism is the essence of human nature, survival of the fittest, evolution if u may, but the only truly effective system of economics, really? And the US is the prime example of this right, I mean, they only have an enormous deficit as a result of lack of regulation, seems very effective indeed... I'm going to assume you've never heard of Scandinavia....
CaptainCarrotify 7 months ago
@CaptainCarrotify
A world where capitalism never existed.
Have fun riding a wagon to work everyday
Salvysahagun 7 months ago
@Salvysahagun FREE TRADE AND TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS ARE REPUBLICON HOAXES !!!
kn9ioutom 7 months ago
@kn9ioutom
Woodrow Wilson (Democrat) was the 1st one to replace America's massive tarriffs with an income tax.
Bill Clinton (Democrat) lowered America's tarriffs to an all time low of 2.5% infact USA has a the lowest tarriff rates world wide
JFK (Democratic icon and my idol) first proposed supply side Economics as a counter measure to the 1959 recession. "An across the board tax cut that will in the create more growth, more jobs and in the long run more government revenue"
Salvysahagun 7 months ago
@Salvysahagun That comment doesn't even make any sense, are you implying scandinavians use wagons in every day life....? The sheer amount of WTF in that comment still baffles me, please stop confusing me with fallafel logic to quote Keith Olbermann.
CaptainCarrotify 6 months ago
@CaptainCarrotify
I'm sorry but who's idea was it to profitably provide mainstream automobiles to poor and middle class people... Henry Ford an American.
If you dig into Nordic nations history you'd find all of their major employeers where created during their free market era.
Sweden always has been a successful nation. Thier Economic culture is what makes them a prosperous nation. The same way Swedes in America are successful.
Salvysahagun 6 months ago
Why is Cenk such a pussy ????
MrCaracas1000 7 months ago
Capitalism is a useful and efficient tool. However, tools can be used by evil - so much so that efficiency is no longer capped by morality. And in this world, there are a lot of people who favour efficiency.
unifieddynasty 7 months ago
Capitalism is evil!
AtheismCentral 7 months ago
why are the comments replies?
checkeredflag90210 7 months ago in playlist TYT Movie Reviews
Just a heads up, Moore never gives a definition of Capitalism in the ENTIRE film.
Salvysahagun 8 months ago
capitalism is evil IN ITS CORE.
kasdzcx 8 months ago
@kasdzcx
no. whats evil is communism, a system that killed 45 million in less than 4 year during the so-called "great leap forward" in china, a system that killed 60 million Russians in purges and the gulag, a system that has people shot for trying to leave the country. read Solzhenitsyn for gods' sake. or google "Korean peninsula at night".
TheTollundWoman 8 months ago
@TheTollundWoman No. Although I don't think communism is the right alternative to capitalism, the system that killed all those people in Russia & China was 'dictatorship', not communism. You are confusing Karl Marx with Stalin/Mao. What Karl Marx talked about never came true, China and Russia never went through the proper evolution of civilization. You can't skip straight to communism. You need to have gone through the middle step capitalism&democracy. That's why their economies failed
kasdzcx 8 months ago
@kasdzcx
Marx himself stated unequivocally "Every political setup following a revolution requires a dictatorship, and an energetic dictatorship at that." He also advocated state control of the means of communication i.e. what we would now call social media, state ownership of industry, forced collectivization of agriculture, and the abolition of private property.
TheTollundWoman 8 months ago
@kasdzcx
None of the main objectives of communism would be possible without dictatorship, Marx himself admitted that, and the only societies that have fulfilled any of the goals outlined in the communist manifesto are totalitarian states like N.Korea.
TheTollundWoman 8 months ago
@kasdzcx
"You need to have gone through the middle step capitalism & democracy." Russia prior to 1917 had a democratically elected legislature (the Duma) and the fastest growing economy anywhere in Europe. China was a democratic republic from 1911 to 1949. North Korea prior to 1945 was the most economically developed region in continental asia.
TheTollundWoman 8 months ago
@kasdzcx
China is the oldest continual civilization anywhere in the world, prior to the Industrial revolution it was the richest country anywhere in the world, the equivalent of say, Luxembourg today. The nation that invented the printing press "never went through the proper evolution of civilization"?? and I suppose Tsarist Russia, with Dostoevsky and Tchaikovsky, wasn't a "properly evolved civilization" either?
TheTollundWoman 8 months ago
@TheTollundWoman Remember, Karl Marx proposed communism to fix the problems of wealth gaps of the poor and the rich. Because capitalism at its core - will always result in class division, with 1% of the billionaires owning everything and the rest being 'Proletariat's. Let me ask you, IS THIS NOT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN AMERICA RIGHT NOW? To truly build a soceity that's of the people, for the people, by the people, it needs to be RUN BY the people not lobbyists and corporations.
kasdzcx 8 months ago
@TheTollundWoman At the same time, communism is just another end of the extreme. a version of communism(it's not exactly correct terminology but you get my drift) where they did accept the idea of taking the wealth from super rich to the general population and mixed that with democracy and capitalism, called socialism, has been working well in countries like Germany, Finland, Norway etc. Capitalism at its core is evil. It promotes greed and selfindulgence and selfishness. It must be fixed.
kasdzcx 8 months ago
@kasdzcx
Capitalism promotes "greed, self-indulgence and selfishness." Right. Because there's nothing 'selfish' about personality cults, leader-worship and hereditary succession. Nothing 'self-indulgent' about spending your national budget importing cognac and swiss watches, while your citizens starve. If the worst case scenario in capitalism ("the top 1% own everything) represents capitalism in general, what about the worst case scenario in communism?
TheTollundWoman 8 months ago
@TheTollundWoman Capitalism is very good economy ideally, but is very easily corrupted, it doesnt promote those thing, those are the actions of corrupted minds behind the blinds. A free market economy is good for any nation. I all for believe michael moore, is a socialist fuck tard, who is an ignorant, narrow minded, sell-out. Socialism is not bad, but I believe its not very good either, the idea of taking money of other ppls pockets and putting them into others. I am not rich either..
TheDukeofVitaminC 7 months ago
FDR CAPITALISM GOOD ! GOP CAPITALISM BAD ! SOCIALIST NORWAY IS NUMBER ONE IN QUALITY OF LIFE !!!
kn9ioutom 8 months ago
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if everybody pays more taxes so i can get cured for cancer is that communism ?
TheArguseyes 8 months ago
hahahaha, over 700,000 PAGES of new regulations have been added the federal register ALONE over the past decade. The sub-prime sector is among teh most regulated in teh financial industry.
It has nothing to do with a lack of regulations. Regulations make small bsuinesses unable to compete with larger established businesses, and so the NATURAL regulation of the MARKET is unable to function: competition. And so, regulations make things worse.
Use your brains for once.
StatelessEuphoria 8 months ago in playlist 1 sanket
hahah moore and all of you people are compelte morons.
The government cretared this mess, the government bailed out teh banks after they fucked everything up, and your answer is that we need the government to fix things?
hahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaha
StatelessEuphoria 8 months ago in playlist 1 sanket
Th banker shave crewed up and right on this. But greed is evil, not the distribution and exchange off goods.
RJWooller 9 months ago
It all comes down to the rationality principle... People only care about their own self-interests. It WILL always be like that no matter what kind of system you try to implement in society. Unfortunately, capitalism does pamper greed due to private enterprise. SO, the real question is... How do we change the system? Any thoughts?
TheRealCMeta 9 months ago
its not capitalism that is evil. greed is what is evil. self indulgence to the point of social apathy is evil. people living in 30 million dollar monuments to ego are downright repugnant especially given the degree of poverty that is typically located within blocks of these gated community castles
BeingNobody1956 9 months ago
Capitalism is greed capitalism is essentialy the rich get richer and the poor stay poor
530movieman 10 months ago
The reason we cannot go back to the high tax rates for of the 1950s is because globalization has made it too easy for companies to simply outsource if they do not like the tax rate, so ironicaly you shrink the total tax intake by trying to raise taxes
TechnoDevotee 10 months ago
@TechnoDevotee That's why we need a global agreement to harmonise tax rates, impose a robin hood-tax on the financial industry, prioritize Fair trade before Free Trade, outlaw tax havens and to create a minimum level with regards to wages, influence, security and working conditions. That way we create a level playing field and the people in the third world will have a much better life and we will be able to compete with them and stop the Race to the bottom.
2 words: Bretton Woods 2.0
atosafi1 9 months ago
you need people like Micheal Moore to push from the left side so that politics doesn't become center-right.
JImmy4336 10 months ago 2
Oh, I see. So cenk thinks the problem was too little government regulation! I wonder if he's talking about the same government regulation that caused the financial crisis. Whenever government gets involved in the market, they tend to mess it up. Just like when they set interest rates, and just like when the central bank got involved... Just let the free market do its job!
Chaaarge 11 months ago
@Chaaarge Little-government regulation led to letting these banks and businesses form corporate monopolies, buy out politicians, break federal laws, screw over their employees, and literally gamble US citizen's tax payer money. What in the hell are you talking about, "Whenever government gets involved in the market, they tend to mess it up", are you out of your effin mind! All the evidence is there, tryto learn actual economics.More government regulation would of prevented this economic disaster
axv375 11 months ago
@axv375 Why did it happen? Let’s go back, when Fannie Mae, was under pressure by the Clinton administration to find a way to get more loans to “borrowers whose incomes, credit ratings and savings are not good enough to qualify for conventional loans.” A (government) program was launched, which soon became general policy. Money flowed to people who couldn’t afford to pay it back. So as I said, government effed things up. of course I'm not blaming fannie and freddie for everything, just an example
Chaaarge 11 months ago
@axv375 And I would like to add that the fed had part in making the crisis worse with their shitty monetary policy.
Chaaarge 11 months ago
People say capitalism is evil but they have no facts and sources to back it up.
PinkFloydJr1 1 year ago
Capitalism is evil, the only reason it sounds silly is because well... most people are still savages.
In the future (if capitalism allows for there to BE a future!) calling capitalism evil will be almost inane, because it so obviously is and no one disagrees.
It's the same as how in the slavery era if you called slavery evil, most people would disagree, it was just human nature that superior races dominated inferior ones! That's what they would have said, and honestly believed.
Shavarnarak 1 year ago
@Shavarnarak
Cenk also proves again one simple thing. Moderates have no balls whatsoever.
Seriously Cenk, you honestly believe that flavourless 'oh oh we're in the middle' crap, or are you just trying to not offend rightards who hate you per default for not being a fellow rightard, and who would probably still consider you an undesirable based on your background if you WHERE on their side?
That's the problem, almost no one wants to take the fucking gloves of against the right already.
Shavarnarak 1 year ago
@Shavarnarak What the fuck? Capitalism has created the greatest improvements in the living standards of the common man all across the world. It's by far the most successful economic model ever implemented; compare it to medieval mercantilism or communism. I had no idea that providing a better life for billions of people was evil. Capitalism has done more good in the world than the actions of any one man ever could.
Panzerfaust616 9 months ago
He is saying that the tax breaks are bad, but if rich people have more money, won't the rest have more too. Plus, Ronald Reagan gave tax cuts to everyone.
PinkFloydJr1 1 year ago
he just consult the preists and then he says that are exagerating so then he goes to the bishop ;]
Miroslawsnketr 1 year ago
Why is comunism such a taboo in america?
fablan6 1 year ago
@fablan6
Because americans hate anything they don't understand.
Atrocitas6 1 year ago
Why can't people see concepts like capitalism and socialism as tools, not absolutes? Find out what creates the greatest amount of good for the greatest number of people, and you've found the right system. That said, while I'm not "anti-capitalist", I don't buy the materialist notion that people necessarily want as much as they can get. People want to do what they are good at, and what makes them feel valued. Look at aspiring entertainers who forfeit steady jobs to do what they love?
Libertyjack1 1 year ago
@Libertyjack1 Because you have brainwashed egomaniacs like ethermeister around that would rather win arguments by denying every fact presented and reality itself instead of trying to be correct and truthful. They run on confirmation bias, they acknowledge the good parts of capitalism but completely ignore the bad or come up with some insane unbacked excuse for it and continue to argue its a perfect system. They attach themselves to something and then defend it zealously.
Shyhalu 1 year ago
Although I don't agree a lot of it, I still think this is a great review. I'm a socialist. I think the term you're looking for is social democracy, which is implementing socialistic values while keeping capitalism. That's the REAL centrist position on the left-right spectrum, I believe. I like this review because they're right: there needs to be a far-left so the balance is kept. I'm ready to compromise with the true centrists like TYT even though I'm more on Moore's side.
Tuuliska 1 year ago
Capitalism is an unfair system. All the wealth goes to the capitalists. They become rich, while the workers must sell their labour to survive.
Beside capitalism is not democratic. Only the capitalists have the rights to decide what to do with all the wealth they created.
I don't say we must nationalize all businesses. The big companies must be put under democratic control of society. The TYT is wrong about capitalism. But I know they are only social liberals and not socialists.
UDSS 1 year ago
"Capitalism is natural" - Beware those who call status quo natural, they are probably benefiting from the current situation.
Who are you to say what is human nature? What if I said religion or theft or murder were human nature? Presumptuous and idiotic, like most liberals.
SPQRomantic 1 year ago 2
@SPQRomantic I agree, capitalism is far from being natural. In fact, I think communism is much closer to natural; I haven't heard anyone disagree with the view that pre-agricultural societies were and still are, in modern terms "communist". The community works as a whole with each person doing their job for the common good. That's communism and that's what inspired Marx.
Tuuliska 1 year ago
@Tuuliska To add to my last comment: On the other hand, capitalism is a very recent system. That doesn't mean it's necessarily "evil" (although I'm all for having that argument) but it definitely doesn't make it any more "natural" than any other system.
Tuuliska 1 year ago
I have a couple of problems with both the review and the movie itself. First of all, it's corporatism that's evil, not capitalism. My second objection is that the reviewer was wrong for saying "we need someone to look out for us". All the government has to do on the market is to make sure there's no fraud and breaking of basic property laws etc...
Chaaarge 1 year ago
Whoa, Ana looks really cute in blue.
Thesterness 1 year ago
A fair review. It's about time socialism ceases to be a dirty word. Arnie claimed that he left Europe because socialism stifles opportunity, supposedly. However if it stifles someone else's opportunity to make millions screwing you over (or from your death) then I'm all for it.
rahotep101 1 year ago
@rahotep101
God damnit, just shut up you economic illiterates. You have no idea how terrible socialism is for an economy.
Ilikemustard 1 year ago
@Ilikemustard We've all found out how disastrous unfettered capitalism is. Socialism is just common sense. It is Christianity without god.
rahotep101 1 year ago
@rahotep101
Yeah, capitalism is so disastrous, right? That's why it's brought such wealth and prosperity to the western world, right? Name me one thing that is 'disastrous' about capitalism that isn't influenced by government controls.
Let me give you a brief history on socialism/communism. Joseph Stalin brought widespread famine to the Soviet Union, killing millions. Mao Zedong brought famine to China, killing over 40 million people. Hugo Chavez's housing policy has brought housing shortages.
Ilikemustard 1 year ago
@Ilikemustard Hello? Global recession? Caused by deregulation of financial markets and promoton of desire to generate money for nothing? How dare you write socialism/communism as though they were the same thing. Ideological Capitalism has resulted in its share of famines, too, incidentally, from Ireland to India, with governments refusing to redistribute stockpiled supplies because this would interfere with market forces.
rahotep101 1 year ago
@rahotep101
Hello! The recession was not caused by 'deregulation', as the government has increasingly regulated the market. You have no idea what you're talking about.
There were a number of factors contributing to the recession, including the bailouts required for banks that were FORCED to hand out subprime loans to people they would not normally loan to, as well as the USA's rampant spending.
What do you mean by 'generate money for nothing'? How does one do this?
...continued
Ilikemustard 1 year ago
@rahotep101
...continued...
I will write socialism/communism as if they're the same thing, because they are almost indentical in their economic policies. They are almost identical in the way they affect an economy.
Let's see your demonstration of why capitalism results in famines.
"governments refusing to redistribute"
Oh, look at that! Govenment intervention! That isn't capitalism you fucking idiot. Stop trying to debate things you don't understand, economic illiterate.
Ilikemustard 1 year ago
@Ilikemustard
I forgot to point out that the factors that contributed to recession were NOT caused by pure capitalism, but by government intervention/regulation.
Ilikemustard 1 year ago
@Ilikemustard The decision not to intervene in markets (even for humanitarian reasons) in order to let the free market take its course is absolutely linked to capitalist ideology. If you sanction the redistribution of money, goods or food from somewhere where there is a surplus to somewhere where there is a wont then you are a socialist. You are supporting a controlled economy. It seems to be you who lacks understanding, as well as civility.
rahotep101 1 year ago
@rahotep101
Yes, a market without government intervention is linked to capitalism. Which is why "governments refusing to redistribute stockpiled supplies" is NOT capitalism, because that involves government intervention. You used this as an argument for why capitalism creates famine.
Are you really this stupid? Come on.
Good job trying to refute only ONE of my arguments by the way.
Ilikemustard 1 year ago
@Ilikemustard In what universe does a government's refusal to intervene count as a government intervention?
rahotep101 1 year ago
@rahotep101
1.
You worded that terribly. You made it sound as if the government itself owned a stockpile of food, and refused to let anyone have it. Regardless, I took the liberty to read about The Great Irish Famine and discovered that I was correct anyway - It WAS caused by government intervention, and not a free market.
Let's see. Firstly, many other countries were afraid of experiencing famine themselves, and as a result BANNED exports of food. (note, this is government intervention)
Ilikemustard 1 year ago
@rahotep101
2.
Due to this, Ireland's ability to import an adequate food supply was greatly diminished.
Next, Ireland had a terrible law in place: The Corn Law. This made it illegal to import any grains or cereal crops into Ireland (corn does not refer to maize in this context). Not only was this disastrous during the famine, as Ireland was unable to import cheap grain to feed their starving populous, it drastically increased the price of grain.
Ilikemustard 1 year ago
@rahotep101
3.
Now, when the famine came around, the price of grain rose even more as there was a very high demand for it due to the lack of potatos. Most lower class citizens were unable to afford it. If The Corn Law was not in place, Ireland could have imported grain for a very cheap price, which the lower class could afford.
One last point I would like to make, though there are several more, is that Ireland had been conquered by England.
Ilikemustard 1 year ago
@rahotep101
4.
Many of Ireland's working class were serfs that were forced to work on English owned land, for very little money. Due to this, they were unable to afford to buy food, and depended on the leftover potatoes they grew to survive. So when the potato disease spread, they had no food.
So let's see, every single point I've just made is a form of government intervention. Misunderstanding or not, I am still correct about the cause of the famine.
Refute me.
Ilikemustard 1 year ago
@Ilikemustard I'm aware of the historical background of the Irish famine but it's undeniable that the British government of the day was favouring laissez faire capitalism. Corn was exported from Ireland throughout the famine era. No one is advocating the mass state seizures and collectivizations that contributed to famine conditions in the early USSR, but state interventions to redress glaring social injustices and economic exploitation.
rahotep101 1 year ago
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REAL Free energy technology exists!But a few ppl make too many billions from our energy needs to let this technology be known,if you want a real Free energy Magnet Motor, get the blueprints at LT-MAGNET-MOTORdotCOM ,Let the revolution begin!
lutherarao 1 year ago
@lutherarao HAHAHAHAHAAA!!!! a magnet motor? yea, I'v heard of free energy devices before, and they're all laughable. if a perpetual motion machine existed it would already be in use today.
ethermeister 1 year ago
@ethermeister We actually have those, using magnetism. Its not free energy, but it works off the magnetic charges on certain objects. You do realize we can levitate things in cold temperatures using magnetism right?
Shyhalu 1 year ago
@Shyhalu and what do levetation and superconductors have to do with what I was talking about? a magnet motor refers to a motor that works using only magnets and produces more energy than it consumes. it doesn't exist. it would break the law of conservation of energy.
ethermeister 1 year ago
@ethermeister Levitation is essentially free energy. It holds up an object, applying enough force to overcome gravity. Those motors do exist, but they are in really early stages so I dont know how well they work. 1. Particle physics broke the law of gravity, its a theory now, so theres no reason why conservation of energy needs to uphold. 2. I doubt it does that if it works off of virtual particles colliding into eachother. We'll know more when we fully understand particle physics.
Shyhalu 1 year ago
@Shyhalu levitation is not free energy. which kind of levitation are you refering to? magnetic, electromagnetic or superconductive? those are the only three I know of and they ALL require energy except magnetic which doesn't actually move anything or exert any energy. it just holds an object stationary. free energy is logically and physically impossible and is laughed at almost univerally by most people who are accomplished or knowlegable about physics.
ethermeister 1 year ago
@ethermeister I said essentially, if you create a magnetic field, you can levitate objects. You are not smart enough to continue this discussion, so just drop it. Especially if you think gravity is still a law. Gravity DOES NOT effect things on the tiny scale, thus its not a law and was converted to a theory AWHILE AGO. So just drop it until you obtain an education.
Shyhalu 1 year ago
@Shyhalu @Shyhalu and what does levetation have to do with free energy? how is a stationary floating object performing any work. and I know gravity is just a theory. but the phrase "law of gravity" has been woven into common language. and gravity still effects things on the quantum level. just not in the same way. and by the way, what sort of education do you have on the subject?
ethermeister 1 year ago
@Shyhalu particle physics hasn't broken the law of gravity. it's impossible to make that statement since scientists are still attempting to use particles to explain gravity. how could anyone make that claim without knowing what correlation the two have? the higgs bozon is still just an idea that no one can prove the existence of.
ethermeister 1 year ago
@Shyhalu if any source of free energy existed then everyone would be using it to power their homes. I've seen many claims about free energy and each invention I've seen is always built by a single person with little to no knowlege about what they're doing and I've never seen an invention actually being used to power someone's home or even any small device. I've also never seen a group of real professionals try with any success to build such a device because they all know it's pointless.
ethermeister 1 year ago
I think the movie would have made more sense if it were called "Corporate Infiltration of Government: A Love Story."
Capitalism is fine as long as the people who are supposed to be keeping shit in line are doing their job.
newdimensionfilms 1 year ago
Greed is definitely one of the ugliest sides of human nature and is responsible for the state the world is in now. Common sense.
scandowegianpean 1 year ago
M. Moore does NOT make documentaries. He has his agenda and builds his story around it. I like his movies, though. Capitalism isn't evil per se. Maybe "money" is. But what are the alternatives? The socialist-comunist experiences we had were disastrous.
gilsonbicudo 1 year ago
Government was fucked up the government.
Step 1: Government makes all Banks back up their gold in bonds.
causes crash of 1908
Step 2: Federal Reserve Act of 1913 as well as 16th amendment.
causes Great Depression.
BONUS: at Woodrow Wilson's death bed he states "unwittingly I have ruined my country"
Step 3 1990's Clinton(government) starts Housing Subsidy and forces banks to give out bad loans. as well as the Fed (GOV) dropping interest rates causes Great Recession of 2008
I rest my case
ssahagun1 1 year ago
Capitalism is evil. It teaches you you can fuck anyone you want so long as you pay for it or py the right people.
MrHarrylime79 1 year ago
Agriculture, manufacturers, commerce, and navigation, the four pillars of our prosperity, are then most thriving when left most free to INDIVIDUAL enterprise- Alexander Hamilton
-The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.- Thomas Jefferson
-A wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their OWN pursuits of industry.
ssahagun1 1 year ago
I'm a big fan of Moore and I've been on his side on almost all the issues. However I dislike the way he makes his movies. He takes people out of context, spins words and sometimes takes facts and turns them on their head just to make his point.
He could make a movie just as strong without resorting to these methods.
2edsajdmsa 1 year ago
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Communism has killed millions of people!
dakidd247 1 year ago
Communism doesn't mean no one owns anything. Communism is when everyone owns everything. Communism is the communal ownership over the means of production.
NothingBut666 1 year ago
it's a clever strategy from Moore. When he was anti-republican, anti-gun, anti-whatever else, the American public saw him as a loon. Now that he has recruited Jesus the masses will support him no matter what crazy shit he says
stoltobot 1 year ago
Asking priests about what's moral? That's about as misdirecting as you get. That said..Fatty didn't make a bad movie, a lot of good stuff, as Cenk said, lots of stupid bits too tho.
SupermarketsRevil 1 year ago
who is not greed in this world?
johnroy58 1 year ago
But when it is so easily manipulated to become evil... it makes you wonder why we allow it in the first place. Socialism is a functional system people, its not communism, socialism =/= communism. The difference, you have a choice.
drpeppa2357 1 year ago
Capitalism doesn't support technology. If it did, we'd all have solar powered homes, cars, and offices right now. We have the technology, we don't use it because of the amount of profit the energy and car industry make off of using old and outdated garbage technology. Our computers get more and more powerful each year, yet we are still running on 80+ year old fuel technology.
Shyhalu 1 year ago 10
@Shyhalu If it ain't broke don't fix it
pandafatxXx 1 year ago
@pandafatxXx So what was broken with 386hz processors?
Shyhalu 1 year ago
@Shyhalu correction: capitolism does not support FAILED technology. solar power is expensive and inconvenient and will not survive in the free market without subsidies. solar is still in its research stage. it's not ready to take over the industry yet.
ethermeister 1 year ago
@ethermeister No its not. We have solar panels in which you could break in half and the parts still intact will function properly. Thats is NOT failed technology. The technology allows us to draw energy from a source thats going to last over a billion years rather than maybe 20 years due to exponential growth.
Shyhalu 1 year ago
@Shyhalu then shouldn't we use that time to develop the technology until it is attractive enough to the average consumer that it can survive the free market without help? and what do broken solar cells have to do with this? that's kind of a pointless argument don't you think?
ethermeister 1 year ago
@ethermeister Oil is finite, it takes tons of time to produce from fossils. The fact is solar power is superior to oil in every way, you don't even need to transport it and you can store excess power into a battery (moon light works some too) for night time. Capitalism does not support the technology becuase it means killing tons of jobs, including truckers, tankers, gas stations, etc.
Shyhalu 1 year ago
@Shyhalu there's still many many years worth of fossil fuel left in the world and we shouldn't just stop utilizing it when it's still the most convenient thing out there to provide power. so, let's compare solar to fossil fuels and see which is superior. fossil fuels have an energy efficiency of from 30 to 50%. solar gets 12 to 20%. ten gallons of gas weighing only 62 pounds will make my car go for 200 miles whereas is it takes almost a thousand pounds of batteries to accomplish the same task.
ethermeister 1 year ago
@Shyhalu your argument about loss of jobs is also invalid because where fossil fuel jobs would die green jobs would fill the gap so it makes no difference with the only cost being infrastructure change. didn't you ever take economics in highschool? but an industry that's still in the research stage will not support that much job growth. it needs more time to develope before it is efficient enough to be attractive to the average consumer.
ethermeister 1 year ago
@Shyhalu battery technology does not as it is today does not have the capacity to store NEARLY enough power to satisfy the needs of consumers.
ethermeister 1 year ago
@ethermeister Actually, you know what? Forget eveyrthing I just said and answer this. What happens when factories are completly automated and no longer require humans?
Shyhalu 1 year ago
@Shyhalu the machines take over and terminate us as a species with an army of arnold schwarzineger robots. how is this relevant to solar power?
ethermeister 1 year ago
@ethermeister Solar power is just one aspect of the problem. The same issue deals with automated cash registers, factory machines, cars , vaccums (The roombas) and etc. Automation leads to a net loss of jobs, which capitalism can not handle very well.
Shyhalu 1 year ago
@Shyhalu capitolism and money DRIVE technological advancement. "make a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door". some good ideas sell well right off the bat. but others need to improve before people will buy.
ethermeister 1 year ago
@Shyhalu and automation doesn't lead to a loss of jobs. it leads to a cheaper product and less work for those wanting to buy it. it doesn't mean less jobs it just means less work. have you ever read "anthem"? just read it. it explains my point perfectly.
ethermeister 1 year ago
@ethermeister So, CORRECTION, capitalism does not support superior technology. Tell me, what job does one take when robots will handle all of the factory work that people use to do? The thing is, you simply dont understand what failed technology is. Failed technology is tech that does not work. Take away money and what argument do you have against solar power? None. NONE. That is not failed technology, but a market system holding technology back
Shyhalu 1 year ago
@Shyhalu try to run a plane on solar power and then tell me that it's superior to oil. and the market does not hold technology back. it holds FAILED technology back. if someone tries to sell me solar power for a price many times what it would cost to simply buy power from the grid I'm not going to take the more expensive option just......cause. I'm going to buy what is more cost effective.
ethermeister 1 year ago
@ethermeister "I'm going to buy what is more cost effective.", my point exactly. This is the market holding better technology back due to money. Take out money, and then tell me why a near limitless energy source, which does not require trucks and tankers to transport, entire factories to burn it, is not a danger to the environment (nuclear waste and oil spills, etc), can be stored in a battery, and requires no power lines to transport it is not better than the stuf fwe areno w using?
Shyhalu 1 year ago
@Shyhalu because money is a fact of life and is the biggest incentive to produce something. the market does not hold back better technology. it buys massive quantities of it. what is your solution to that? do away with money all together?
ethermeister 1 year ago
@ethermeister Its a fact of life in a capitalistic society. Its holding back solar power right now. One or two panels is enough to power a home, and batteries aren ot na issue, as we have small generators that already serve as portable energy.
Getting rid of money would be cool, but the mindset of our species is not capable of handling it. Right now, most people need to be bribed to do something that benefits our species.
Shyhalu 1 year ago
@Shyhalu money drives almost everything. why should I do something without an incentive? why should I buy expensive solar panels when I can just pay my cheap electric bill? are you saying we should just convince everyone to go solar because oil is going to run out even though solar is expensive?
ethermeister 1 year ago
@ethermeister Thanks for demonstrating what I meant when I said most of our species needs to be bribed. Solar is expensive because capitalism and money get in the way, THUS its holding better technology back and slowing development.
Shyhalu 1 year ago
@Shyhalu money and capitolism DRIVE technological advancement. "build a better mousetrap and the world will build a road to your door". when someone comes up with a good idea he sells it and at the same time makes the world a little bit more efficient. on the other hand: when a person comes up with a good idea and nobody buys it he just needs to improve it and try again.
ethermeister 1 year ago
@Shyhalu so you're saying that we should get rid of not only currency but THE VERY CONCEPT OF TRADE!!!???? how the hell would society function even at the most basic lever without currency and trade???!!!!
ethermeister 1 year ago
@ethermeister How can society function? Oh gee, I don't know, how about by not being greedy selfish that need to be bribed to make this world a better place, like you? Society can function the same way a family functions. Your family does not charge you rent, does make you pay for food in the fridge etc etc.
Shyhalu 1 year ago
@Shyhalu society can't function like a family. we've tried it in america during colonial times. it's called communism and it destroys every single country it touches. not everyone likes eachother as much as a family does. and there are a lot of disfunctional families.
ethermeister 1 year ago
@ethermeister Anyway, we are not continuing this discussion until you admit that solar power is a better technology, and no, price does not make something better.
Shyhalu 1 year ago
@Shyhalu yea it does dumbshit. a $1 cup of coffee is better than a $2 identical cup of coffee.
ethermeister 1 year ago
Comment removed
Shyhalu 1 year ago
@Shyhalu too late, I already saw it and your argument is invalid because you ignored one factor. solar to fossil does not equal healthfood to mcdonalds. ELECTRICITY IS ELECTRICITY. both fossil and solar produce an IDENTICAL product. but: fossil fuels produce it at a lower price. THAT MAKES IT BETTER. nothing you or anyone can do will change the fact that MONEY WILL ALWAYS BE A FACTOR. you can't just ignore it. it won't go away.
ethermeister 1 year ago
@ethermeister If you can not agree that an energy technology that does not require power lines, does not require entire factories with workers, does not require oil rigs and mining equipment, does not need tankers and truckers, can be accessed globally, and will last us over a million times longer than alternatives, simply because you can't understand that money is being taken out of the equation, then you are not intelligent enough to continue this conversation. We're done here.
Shyhalu 1 year ago
@Shyhalu money will always be part of the equation weather you like it or not. I refuse to continue this pointless argument on the basis that I have a life.
ethermeister 1 year ago
@ethermeister Take money out of the equation and tell me which is better. I'm not interested in talking with an idiot, so until you can do that theres no point in continuing.
Shyhalu 1 year ago