Charpentier: TE DEUM (1)

[FRAGIORGIO1]

I noticed "superpainik" asked in Italian, "Am I mistaken, or is this the church of St. Denis?" Maybe you can help him, if you know.

[frenchiecocorico1]

@FRAGIORGIO1 Yes, one time more it's one of your numerous mistake. The close words to "superpainik" could be "suscepturus" pronounced in french" süs shep tü rüss". or "super nos" prnounced "süper noss". Either your hearing is very defective or you must learn french and its pronunciation urgently previous to write any comment on it.

[FRAGIORGIO1]

@frenchiecocorico1 You evidently do not understand Italian. He is asking for the name of the church not the pronunciation of 'suscepturus. "Mi sbaglio"=am I mistaken, "o questa"=or this, "`e la chiesa"=is the church, "di saint Denis"=of Saint Denis. This is not a question of hearing, but a question of written translation. I'm surprised that you as a Frenchman cannot understand Italian, which is very similar to French. I learned to read French by knowing Italian !

[frenchiecocorico1]

@FRAGIORGIO1 "You evidently do not understand Italian"

Evidently as a frenchman I understand more or less italian because is a close idiom from french one despite I never learn it.

However your comment was in english.

"Superpainik" question is uninteresting when the answer is included in the introduction text. Sorry I didn't refer to this comment text and didn't understand "Superpainik" was an italian You Tuber..

Evidently you speak italian, so I wonder why you didn't answer directly ?

[FRAGIORGIO1]

@frenchiecocorico1 I was translating the question for the person who uploaded the video. I don't know which church this is. Well, perhaps you're right. I shall refer to "prreterosso" directly for the information.

[frenchiecocorico1]

@FRAGIORGIO1 "I was translating the question "

I answered myself in italian to "superpainik" question

A basic research on the net would have given the right answer on the related wikipedia article in italian, english, german, ...

Saint Denis is the ancient abbey church changed into a basilica after the revolution, where were buried all the kings of France. This abbey church gave its name to the town where it located in the northern suburb of Paris.



[ukcelticpride]

Baroque at its best.

[frenchcolors]

Bien trop rapide... Dommage...

[frenchiecocorico1]

Je dois dire que je suis d'accord avec l'opinion largement partagée que ce tempo est beaucoup trop rapide et inapproprié à ce genre de musique. Faut il rappeler qu'il s'agit de l'Ouverture en rondeau d'un Te Deum, c'est à dire d'une musique liturgique. Le cartactère de cette musique se doit donc d'être SOLEMNEL et RECEUILLI. même si la grandeur Louis-Quatorsienne n'y est pas exclue.

[frcluc]

Tempo too fast !!!! It almost ruins this piece of art.

[larochea103]

excellent!

[heintzenberg]

This piece got rhythm inside :)

[franciszek8D]

Glory to God and gratitude for this beautiful, magnificent performance.

[FRAGIORGIO1]

The introduction seems a bit fast, but the rest is Very Good!. The French pronunciation of Latin is probably time-warrented for 1700, but "confitemir" instead of "confitemur" and "serapham" instead of "seraphim" leaves something to be desired. I wish everybody would adopt the Roman Ecclesiastical pronunciation, that is, the Italian pronunciation as in Rome. There are some terrible pronunciations of vowels in English too and the Spanish with their "thetas". Let's agree on the Roman style.

[frenchiecocorico1]

@FRAGIORGIO1 Certainly not and the french performers will never do that, continuing to pronounce with the french pronunciation of latin which is the historical true one in France under the monarchic regim. This corresponds to the french GALLICAN CHURCH liturgy when the french Catholic Church was independant from Rome and didn't obey the Pope but the king of France and the french council of Bishops. This particular pronunciation existed in France until the end of the 1970's..

[FRAGIORGIO1]

@frenchiecocorico1 In many lands, the local branch of the one Church was under the foot or thumb of the monarch and suffered greatly by being a football of kinds and nobles to grasp positions of bishops and abbots for their children or relatives, leaving the local church in a lamentable state, in spite of many good and holy souls. I did say that the pronunciation was historically correct, but that the national pronunciations left misunderstandings for an international church

[frenchiecocorico1]

@FRAGIORGIO1 III- You don't understand that it is not "confitimir" as you pretend but "confitemür" (the sound "u" in french isn't pronounced as the english or italian "oo" (i.e poor) but as the german sound "ü" (i.e für). So, you don't understand that is not "serapha" but seraphin (with the french blocked nasal sound "in" or "ain").

Finally, the current latin is not important today in the catholic church because the rule is now to use the national idioms since Vatican II council.

[frenchiecocorico1]

@FRAGIORGIO1 I- Here the problem isn't how latin must be pronounced today or how must be the current rites of the catholic church ? Actually, it is how must be pronounced latin in France on a historical viewpoint. It doesn't matter anyhow what is catholic church today and has no importance in this discussion;

Particularly, I don't militate myself for an international catholic church because I am atheist. I militate for the disappearing of all religion which are the mind cancer of humanity.

[FRAGIORGIO1]

@frenchiecocorico1 Church Latin is one thing. If you're not interested in Catholic Church Latin, then the logical thing is to use a phonetic pronunciation of Classical Latin wherein all "c" letters are pronounced as "k" and there are relatively pure vowels (although some long and some short, a tough job). There would be double or long consonants, as still exists in Italian. "H" would be pronounced with a breath of air, as in English or German. Latin is Latin !

[frenchiecocorico1]

@FRAGIORGIO1 "Church Latin is one thing"

Thanks for your latin lesson considering your speaker as daft ignorant. I am now an atheist but I never said that I ignore anything about catholic church. I am catholic born and christened;.My sister is a latin teacher. So I know as well as you how roman catholic latin must be pronounced though modern researches brought many changes.

It is not the question here. During the french baroque period,, latin must be pronounced with the french accent.

[FRAGIORGIO1]

@frenchiecocorico1 I had made the comment that I understood the French pronunciation as Historically correct.  I commented that I would Prefer as uniform a pronunciation as possible among the nations, but some things will be difficult to get, such as the different pronunciations of "r" or the double consonants. Basically, I agree with your last sentence.

[frenchiecocorico1]

@FRAGIORGIO1 "I had made the comment "

I must admit that I deeply disagree your opinion. Culture must never become a standardization phenomenon, particularly for the convenience of US people mind. At the opposite, its dissimilarity and its diversity make its richness. French culture is neither english nor italian or german or spanish...'s ones. Each culture depends on ethnical, historical or environmental factors mixing inventiveness and traditions; It always changes from a people to another..

[ukcelticpride]

Very Good. Just the right energy.

[barococo1750]

Allthough probably authentic I really hate the French pronunciation of Latin

[burkewhb]

Wayyyyyy tooooo faaaaaaast! It'd probably be great, I like the trumpets, the drums,

and the singers, but the tempo has to be slowed down.

[reipe2006]

too fast



[wishcraft4u2]

This is ridiculous... SLOWWWW DOWWNNNNN man!

It sounds like the conductor was fed too much energy drink and candy bars before going on the stage...

[rostomic]

ohhh the speed at the opening... what a rush and where?

[extremechaser91]

awesome!!

[bobr0405]

It should be much slower. In the begining is written maiestoso. I think the one third of this tempo is the best tempo.

[superpainik]

mi sbaglio o questa è la chiesa di saint Denis?

[frenchiecocorico1]

@superpainik Questa non è una chiesa ma la basilica della città di Saint Denis a nord di Parigi. E il mausoleo dove sono sepolti i re di Francia.

[Androjaeger]

a little too fast for my taste. sounds like they have a bus to catch.

[Javier141145]

¡¡¡Sublime!!!

[TheSabradj]

C'est sublime.Merçi Arte d'avoir procédé à l'enregistrement de ce beau conçert.

[sslohier]

enthralling! bien fait!

[murilo010795]

Magnifiques!!