@xy11xy How about the sex slavery happens argument is an avoidance of a person's right "argument." Because there really is no argument. But you'll make it anyway.
Do you really believe/feel that you are in great jeopardy because someone is curtailing your right to sell you sexual services? I mean, is this a pressing concern?
I suspect not..which is why I believe the "woman's right" argument is a philosophical position..esoteric, sort of fuzzy and unspecific. I mean really, are women dying for want of prostituting themselves? How can anyone disagree with the woman's right argument?
it's an easy applause line. You say "I think women should have the right to do what they want with their bodies".. Well, who can possibly disagree with that? You avoid getting specific though.. Of course women should have the right to do what they want with their bodies.. Is it wise to enshrine prostitution within the law? I'm not so sure it is. And, isn't prostitution something of a misnomer when so much of it is trafficking? Is this The Fight of our lives?
@xy11xy What should we enshrine? Continue to keep prostitution illegal so select women end up in jail, with a record, lose their children, then not be able to get a real job when they might normally chose to stop working? I thought you were paying attention to these discussions. Sex worker advocates not only assert that women should not be stigmatized and criminalized for their choices but that women who do NOT want to be sex workers should be allowed and actually able to get out of it.
Well..now THAT'S specific. The problem - as I see it - is that the framing of those specific points within the "woman's rights" argument was a tactical decision... I don't think it is a wise tactic.. It corners us into saying(suggesting) that prostitution is something women want..we're kinda moving in that general direction. That direction doesn't account for the exploitation of prostitution though...
It's sort of like how the so called "pro life" groups frame their arguments as killing babies.. Well who could disagree that killing babies is bad...but they force "pro choice" groups to change their language where they sound like they're advocating killing cute little babies. Then the "pro life" groups accuse the "pro "choice groups" of essentially being murderers..
So, if you say you don't advocate legalizing prostitution..you get accused of being a "man hater"..."frigid" etc..
@xy11xy "It's sort of like how the so called "pro life" groups frame their arguments as killing babies."
I do understand and certainly sex pos folks are not the only ones with a positive attitude toward sex. I personally prefer to call prohibitionists what they are, but they do tend to identify as anti-porn anti-sex work, etc. Also, it is the position of some radical feminists to claim all sexual intercourse is rape, but I didn't bring any of that up.
@xy11xy First of all, I disagree with your point that "framing" an honest and very real position is tactical. The statement simply declares a very real truth. People who are not impoverished choose it as work.
soooo...the logic goes: Women have the right to do what they want with their bodies; Women(& children) are prostitutes; therefore, women and children WANT to be prostitutes!... and by extension, they WANT to be exploited.
I was with the argument up until the last statement... then I want to say back up, there are about a million things a "woman" would rather be doing, than prostitution!
@xy11xy Using the radical feminist position, you draw the conclusions here you just stated. I stated no such thing. And yes, I understand that you can not imagine anyone wanting to be a sex worker but I assure you that is your own bias due to the stigma attached to the work. I have these conversations with people all the time. Few people are open to understanding, say, my personal story on this subject, that sex work was therapeutic for myself and my clients.
if a person chooses to use crack in the privacy of his own home it's none of my business.. legalizing all drugs will remove the stigma that surrounds drug culture people with addiction problems will be more willing to get help from medical professionals or have their drugs administered in a clinical environment
sending people to jail when they aren't hurting anyone is bullcrap "pardon my french" the constitution guarantees us LIFE LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS "not yelling"
I hope you respond to this with your opinion.
I am tired of this miswording of the issue.
The woman is not selling her body. Shes selling a service.
When its legal and regulated and they are protected like workers of every other industry are, she has complete control of her body.
She and the guy can agree to limits.
She can stop at any time and have the service cutoff resolved by law or contract.
The guy doesnt leave with anything, its simply a service she performs.
waltermh111 1 year ago
I agree completely. Whatever peopel want to do that doesn't hurt anyone else, they should.
julesnjai 1 year ago
Well put. Thumbs up!
askagnl8rdd 1 year ago
Very sleek argument, Kipp; but, you're still wrong.
The woman's right's argument is an avoidance of the exploitation of children and women and sex slavery that happens in the so-called "sex industry".
xy11xy 1 year ago
@xy11xy How about the sex slavery happens argument is an avoidance of a person's right "argument." Because there really is no argument. But you'll make it anyway.
xxxild 1 year ago
@xxxild
hi xxild,
Do you really believe/feel that you are in great jeopardy because someone is curtailing your right to sell you sexual services? I mean, is this a pressing concern?
I suspect not..which is why I believe the "woman's right" argument is a philosophical position..esoteric, sort of fuzzy and unspecific. I mean really, are women dying for want of prostituting themselves? How can anyone disagree with the woman's right argument?
cont'd below...
xy11xy 1 year ago
@xy11xy
cont'd..
it's an easy applause line. You say "I think women should have the right to do what they want with their bodies".. Well, who can possibly disagree with that? You avoid getting specific though.. Of course women should have the right to do what they want with their bodies.. Is it wise to enshrine prostitution within the law? I'm not so sure it is. And, isn't prostitution something of a misnomer when so much of it is trafficking? Is this The Fight of our lives?
xy11xy 1 year ago
@xy11xy What should we enshrine? Continue to keep prostitution illegal so select women end up in jail, with a record, lose their children, then not be able to get a real job when they might normally chose to stop working? I thought you were paying attention to these discussions. Sex worker advocates not only assert that women should not be stigmatized and criminalized for their choices but that women who do NOT want to be sex workers should be allowed and actually able to get out of it.
xxxild 1 year ago
@xxxild
Well..now THAT'S specific. The problem - as I see it - is that the framing of those specific points within the "woman's rights" argument was a tactical decision... I don't think it is a wise tactic.. It corners us into saying(suggesting) that prostitution is something women want..we're kinda moving in that general direction. That direction doesn't account for the exploitation of prostitution though...
cont'd.
xy11xy 1 year ago
@xy11xy
It's sort of like how the so called "pro life" groups frame their arguments as killing babies.. Well who could disagree that killing babies is bad...but they force "pro choice" groups to change their language where they sound like they're advocating killing cute little babies. Then the "pro life" groups accuse the "pro "choice groups" of essentially being murderers..
So, if you say you don't advocate legalizing prostitution..you get accused of being a "man hater"..."frigid" etc..
xy11xy 1 year ago
@xy11xy "It's sort of like how the so called "pro life" groups frame their arguments as killing babies."
I do understand and certainly sex pos folks are not the only ones with a positive attitude toward sex. I personally prefer to call prohibitionists what they are, but they do tend to identify as anti-porn anti-sex work, etc. Also, it is the position of some radical feminists to claim all sexual intercourse is rape, but I didn't bring any of that up.
xxxild 1 year ago
@xy11xy First of all, I disagree with your point that "framing" an honest and very real position is tactical. The statement simply declares a very real truth. People who are not impoverished choose it as work.
xxxild 1 year ago
@xxxild
@xxsild
soooo...the logic goes: Women have the right to do what they want with their bodies; Women(& children) are prostitutes; therefore, women and children WANT to be prostitutes!... and by extension, they WANT to be exploited.
I was with the argument up until the last statement... then I want to say back up, there are about a million things a "woman" would rather be doing, than prostitution!
xy11xy 1 year ago
@xy11xy Using the radical feminist position, you draw the conclusions here you just stated. I stated no such thing. And yes, I understand that you can not imagine anyone wanting to be a sex worker but I assure you that is your own bias due to the stigma attached to the work. I have these conversations with people all the time. Few people are open to understanding, say, my personal story on this subject, that sex work was therapeutic for myself and my clients.
xxxild 1 year ago
@xxxild
..and finally, I think those specific points are perfectly valid... I just think the tactics are ...misguided.
I can't help it...it sort of makes it sound like it's "choices"...and always "choices"
xy11xy 1 year ago
Glad a friend sent me this video. This stuff is so obvious to me I often can't even begin to express myself. Thank you!
xxxild 1 year ago
fucking epic :D
legalize prostitution and EVERY drug... because people have the right to do what they want with THEIR bodies!!!
Leadman1989 1 year ago
@Leadman1989 some drugs affect those around the user and should be limited legally beyond that i agree
dragon1ord 1 year ago
@dragon1ord
if a person chooses to use crack in the privacy of his own home it's none of my business.. legalizing all drugs will remove the stigma that surrounds drug culture people with addiction problems will be more willing to get help from medical professionals or have their drugs administered in a clinical environment
sending people to jail when they aren't hurting anyone is bullcrap "pardon my french" the constitution guarantees us LIFE LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS "not yelling"
Leadman1989 1 year ago
flawless video
Sarahon06 1 year ago
Makes perfect sense. Where the hell you been lately? I've been starved of videos that don't piss me off.
SardonicSkeptic 1 year ago
That's a very original and insightful argment. I like it.
CousinoMacul 1 year ago
I dont think anyone should have the right to tell anyone else what they can or cannot do with their body
Zhaan4ever 1 year ago