Fully renewable: biogas + wind + solar

[LeithMusic]

That biomass is grown in competition with food and if not grown organically will harm the nitrogen cycle. Much of the wind tubine's efficiency is lost for the sake of converting mechanical energy into electrical energy, and lost further when that electrical energy is converted again for use.

[vox1philippines]

very very nice....

[ejnewkes]

What a delight to see a whole stream of intelligent comments, with nary a climate troll in sight. Perhaps there's hope for Youtube yet.

[KVLai]

I think its better to place all 3 system together in every chosen location. Lets say when its too cloudy for the solar cells below, the wind turbine besides it will turn because cloudy days are usually windy. As for the biomass at the same location can provide the supply slack from wind & solar. Its easier to coodinate its supply at any given location. The high tech hydro system will be the storage for night electricity combined with night wind. Please comment. TQ

[simouny]

Lastly, the system is totally self-sufficient in terms of digestives used because all raw materials can be obtained and stored in the plant for long periods of time. Nevertheless, these are just speculations and thus far, unproven. Perhaps our only answer will be seen on the years they say 100% power is from these powerplants, say year 2200?

[originalrhombus]

@simouny It will happen sooner, or it will never happen. The Germans are proving it's possible, so the only real obstacle is policy. The biogas is only there to manage supply -- you use it for peak demand, or to fill supply troughs.

[simouny]

some speculation is that methane produced in bio-digester is carbon emit free. Other gases however are stored in different tanks to be used in their own way. How about the fertilizer? These can be used freely on farms with minimal impact in soil-microbes ration because as i have read in agri journal fertilizers from bio-digester are cleaner and less toxic than synthetic ones (high nitrogen content). Sludge is also accounted for because there is non produced in biogas plants.

[simouny]

I think there are a lot of flaws in the multi plant system but not so much that they cannot try and solve it. Even with the loss of energy in transit to other parts of the country the system has to operate to produce even at the least amount of energy. The question is with solar and power on a non permanent stay, can biogas serve it's total energy production for the whole nation on it's own and what effects can very large scale plant system have on the environemnt.

[pritishd]

Nice. Wish NZ did the same?

[hachicontrol]

75% renewables via hydroelectric ain't that bad. I am curious what they're going to do with excess power produced by wind turbines though. Wouldn't want a surge going through the local substation...

[originalrhombus]

@hachicontrol There are a number of ways to deal with this. You can use pump reservoirs, like the ones shown in this video. You could, in theory, use the excess to drive electrolysis to produce hydrogen for storage and later combustion, which is less efficient but might be easier to arrange than a lot of pump reservoirs. Finally, you can disconnect turbines from the grid and lock them.

[mciceteade]

@originalrhombus these water reservoir are lakes like schwarzenbachtalsperre you can wiki them pretty big they hold a lot of water and they are used to store the overproduced wind energy during nighthours as example. or solar power in the morning hours when there is no need for it. the production of the biogas is continues but the genset is not running unless it is peaktime the gas is stored until needed.

[Bioeconomy]

The only problem I see with the concept is that neither wind nor solar can go carbon-negative (biomass can, by coupling its use to CCS). And that's what we need to make a truly climate fighting system.

[crock703]

and someone to convice use to stop breeding like rabbits - with a convincing argument, and not at the barrel of a gun (or the imaginary threat of someone else's.)

[djangobelgo]

Crock, are u willing to be the first one to stop 'breeding'? :-)

Population is a problem, but mind you, in 2075 we probably max out at 9 billion. I think with a good management of resources, we can get there.

[crock703]

i dunno. I've heard that in Beijing, Shanghai, etc young upwardly mobile devoted young married couples are just choosing to not have children. I lived there briefly and there are just so many people, everywhere, all the times, it feels like it doens't make sense to add to it.

9B.. yuck. If we planned I bet we could, but what would it be like. I think disease will slow it, bird flu, something. High density & high movement.. seems inevitable. Intentional pop control efforts could happen too. :(

[friendlyuser1]

wars! there will be alot of wars in the future, famine, natural disasters, unrest. noway will the population touch 9 billion, younger ppl will die more than elders as you can already see.

[crock703]

Eh, well my "data" comes from articles in scientific journals, and stews with the rumors I pick up on youtube. I was really just speculating on whether the video is neglecting to address any flaws in the idea.

Energy lost in transit is one, but also I've heard that in the US we'd have to use an incedible amount of land to make biofuels a big portion of our CURRENT consumption. That said, biofuels also take up food farming land, and replace forests. As it would in Africa, which is starving.

[Bioeconomy]

1. Well, according to the IEA's Bioenergy Task 40 and the Copernicus Institute's QUICKSCAN model (now used by the Food & Agriculture Organisation of the UN), there's land potential for the production of 1500 Exajoules by 2050, accounting for all food, fiber, fodder and forest product needs of growing populations.

1500Ej is around 3.5 times as much as all energy currently consumed worldwide from all sources (coal, oil, gas, nuclear). So there's absolutely no shortage of resources.

[Bioeconomy]

2. But it's true that this potential (based on an explicit "no deforestation" and "reforestation" scenario) is mainly based in the CIS (200Ej), Africa (400Ej) and Latin America (350EJ).

Energy crop production can restore ecosystems, store carbon in soils (and become carbon-negative), and combat desertification and erosion. It's also a major tool in the fight against poverty and hunger.

So I think there's no reason to assume that there's not a huge potential for sustainable biomass.

[crock703]

Crops sequestration can't compete full on with forests though can it? - just guessing. That said, I've also read that tropical rainforests aren't the "lungs" we usually think they - produce an incredible amount of C02 in decaying undergrowth.

I imagine its really hard to project well with a far-off large scale model like this- what'll full-scale 'farming' would do to water systems, surface temps, wind patterns. & Pop? Just playing devil's advocate.

Can u suggest some good reading sources?

[crock703]

This is really interesting. Article is short on hard data though. Couple questions to ask..

- How will large biomass needs impact food supply & costs? If its still true that France is the only Euro country able to feed itself, Germany's cheap biofuel relies on cheap food imports.

- The model is a 1/10k representation of Germany's actual needs. Does the land utilized also represent 1 ten thousandth of Germany's available land?

- Is the model accounting for energy lost in transit?

[crock703]

(If Solar energy is comes from the South, when wind is minimal in the North, a fair amount of that solar energy will be lost in transit to the North. Also, a lot of energy will have to travel far into the urban areas.)

The strength of this idea is plant coordination.. seems fairly simple. Did no one really think of or test it yet? I'm surprised we haven't heard more about it. In either case, maybe its success is being silenced, still too unproven, or the video is not mentioning ideas faults.

[mikus88]

Great Video! The idea of combined renewable power plants is the wave of the future!

[Timothy7392]

AND they get less sun than we do... if only Gore had won in 2000

[NoncentsProductions]

Sign me up. It is time for the US to invest in this kind of infrastructure, but too bad it will never happen.

[universallance]

So wicked awesome!! But why were they just saying for emergency?

& why the hell can't every country do this??

[Bombur86]

Thats the future baby!

[KarlFeuerbach]

The germans have it sussed. thing is they will do it, while the rest of us talk about it and continue sucking oil and fighting neocon wars. Really shines a light on juts how stupid Bush's thinking really is.

[arlindbosh]

very impressive!!!

[Deathridesahorse2]

...uh, yeh, I think I might have to second that motion!!! "Huzzah, I say, Huzzah!"

[sustainablejohn]

is that reservoir/mountain power storage method proven with any test projects? environmentally safe? what about the option of fuel cells/hydrogen storage for power storage?

[Bombur86]

As far as I know the power storage is already in use but even if its not, its nothing else than a water power plant which are use for a long time.

[danskal]

I believe it is used by most hydro power stations (except perhaps in the US). Much less power is needed at night, and it is expensive to shut down power stations, so they use the excess power to pump water back uphill.

It only requires a lake/reservoir at the bottom of the incline.

[sherifftruman]

Promising. Let's hope that method can produce enough for the entire nation and not just some cities.