Hardly anyone even keeps Jesus' name Holy for that matter, i think we should give him His due and offer up all seven days to Him! After all, what can we do, or refrain from doing on any day without Him?
This was an excellent debate. I came away with a whole new perspective on SDA. Actually I know strong SDA woman who has a long family history in the church & what I like about her is she has strong family roots, a great outlook on life, & she does have strong beliefs but what disturbs me is she believes all gods lead to 1 god & she strongly advocates abortion, but knowing she gets her theology from White rather than the Bible is just too much.
the question that clears up the legalism issue is...and I know this has been asked many times but...
Can someone who trusts and has faith in jesus christ and rests in him as their sabbath by letting go of their works and resting in his works of the cross be saved? even if they don't keep a physical seventh day sabbath and instead rest in the spiritual rest christ provides?
And I'm not referring to those who havent heard the three angels message.
The sda church thinks the sabbath is the seal of Gods people yet the holy spirit is the seal. The new testament in Colossians 2:16 tells us not to let anyone judge us in sabbaths or food or drink also that we are no longer under the curse of the law Galatians 3:10. Give up on Ellen g white she's false. Stick with the kjv bible.
@mamainmancj THE SABBATH IS A "SEAL" IN A PROPER SENSE. WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO EXPLAIN? I don't have much space but I'll try to illustrate and the rest is up to you:
"The 4th commandment illustrates a SEAL" discover the following elements
NAME: "The Lord thy God"
AUTHORITY: "creator of the Sabbath and all things"
DOMINION: "heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is..."
CHARGE: "Worship the Lord thy God on the Sabbath, which is the 7th day of the week"
The bible lists a few things as a seal depending on the covenant
1. Noah - Rainbow
2. Abraham - Circumcision
3. Moses - sabbath
4. New covenant - Holy Spirit
Each covenant was provided with a seal, and ours is the Holy Spirit. IF you want to put a human spin on it and declare that it must have a name, authority, dominion and charge, then the Holy Spirit has exactly that and is mentioned in the new covenant as the seal, whereas the sabbath is not.
:-) The Holy Spirit is the AGENT of the seal of God. The Sabbath of the 4th commandment is not for Moses alone to identify with, have you truly read from the Bible? Read the Bible, I did not put any human spin on the matter. THOSE WHO STUDY THE BIBLE PROPERLY & CANDIDLY WILL FIND HOW THE SABBATH IS SAID TO BE A SEAL. I was clear on the Sabbath when it is viewed as a seal in relation to the Remnant People... DID YOU READ MY COMMENT?
SEAL, i.e. a distinct SIGN that identifies God's true people.
The Holy Spirit will SEAL God's people at the appointed time...
The Holy Spirit is the agency of the Godhead who will perform the SEALING...
What will the Holy Spirit SEAL us with? He will SEAL us with the "CHARACTER" of God (thus the expression "...sealed on their foreheads"). The SEAL per se, IS THE CHARACTER OF GOD WHICH WILL BE MADE MANIFEST IN THE HEART & SOUL.
The Sabbath is a seal in a sense that IT IS A SIGN that distinguishes God's people from the COUNTERFEIT.
The Sabbath, i.e. the 7th day of the week according to the commandment, is "ILLUSTRATED" by SDAs to be a "SEAL" in relation to the prophetic revelation of Jesus Christ in Revelation 13. THE WHOLE BIBLE TEACHES THAT THE SABBATH OF THE 4th COMMANDMENT IS A SIGN BETWEEN GOD & HIS PEOPLE. In other words, it identifies who are God's TRUE people.
Now, a clear understanding of Revelation 13 will illustrate that the "MARK OF THE BEAST" is the "SIGN" or "SEAL" of a COUNTERFEIT RELIGION.
In the mosaic covenant it did, but however, there is another seal in the new covenant:
Eph 1:13-14 - In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory
2Cr 1:21-22 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God; who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
The Holy Spirit is given as a seal to the believer, like a receipt, that you are a purchased possession and that when he returns he'll return for you.
If you don't have his Spirit, you are none of his. How does one receive his Spirit, this seal of God....is it through the works of the law or by the hearing of faith? Read these verses carefully....
You are also sealed now, the moment you believe when he places his Spirit within you....if you have not this Spirit, you are none of his..this sealing takes place at the moment of faith..not at some future time.
@Myhopeisinhim Yes my friend, Paul illustrates How God's people are sealed unto RIGHTEOUSNESS with the HOLY SPIRIT as the active agent. It is in this "SALVATIONAL SENSE" that the Holy Spirit is the seal of our union with God unto righteousness. But you are charging on SDAs about A SEAL IN A "PROPHETIC SENSE". In the last days, there will be two CLASSES of people, #1 God's Remnant and #2 The Children of Apostasy. SDAs speak of the Sabbath as a "SEAL" or "SIGN" in view of a particular PROPHECY.
These are known by the seal of His character manifested by the Holy Spirit in their being, the SIGN of such a people living in the last days are those who keep the SABBATH of the 4th commandment.
The Children of Apostasy:
These are also known by the seal of their characters according to the dictates of HUMAN TRADITION & AUTHORITY. It has a sign too... in prophetic language it is known as the "MARK OF THE BEAST" the SIGN of its ASSUMED AUTHORITY.
@Myhopeisinhim CAN YOU SEE NOW HOW THE SABBATH OF THE 4th COMMANDMENT IS ILLUSTRATED AS A SEAL? We all know, the seal of God per se is His PERFECT CHARACTER MADE MANIFEST IN THE HEART & SOUL. So don't get confused about the ILLUSTRATION... The Sabbath is simply a representation of GOD'S CHARACTER... If you manifest GOD'S CHARACTER then you will be found honoring HIS SABBATH. THIS IS A SIGN, THIS IS WHAT DISTINGUISHES GOD'S TRUE PEOPLE FROM THE APOSTATE RELIGIONS OF THE WORLD.
@Myhopeisinhim Kindly read my comments from below going up. They are a chain of thoughts in relation to your questions. I find it a blessing to share, TRUTHS with you.
Your emphasis above is nice, but I find it lacked bringing the ENTIRETY OF THE HOLY SCRIPTURES in perspective of the SABBATH illustrated by SDAs as a SEAL OF GOD. I would have you directed to the PROPHECY in the book of Daniel & Revelation and more particularly in Revelation chapter 13. IT'S A STUDY, it's not mere talk. GBY!
I know that adventists believe that the sabbath is the final test for God's people, but the bible does not say that. The law is not and never will be the test. It is not the way you justify yourself before God and never will be. It is and always will be based on faith.
Will you continue to put your faith in Christ unto the end, or will you at the end of time, put your faith in his enemy? That is the test. Will you endure trials and still praise his name?
The mark of the beast is one that gives you the ability to buy and sell. The sunday law doesn't do that. The bible describes the mark of the beast as a physical mark...the word used in the greek is defined as a cattle brand, like the owners of cattle brand their horses or cattle so that if they escape then their neighbors know who it belongs to.
Those who have this mark will be able to enter stores and conduct business, those who don't won't be able to...
Satan will want to give you a physical mark that declares you his. He will want something physical and since he knows that Jesus can be worshiped on sunday that cannot ever be the mark.
But it would just be like him to want to physically mark people because it would be a blunt, in your face, type thing. Now, I don't deny that the worship that he will require may land on a sunday, like when you will be required to worship his image...but sunday itself and worship on sunday is not
Remember Nebuchadnezzar. He sent up an image and at a specific time when the people heard the sounds of the instruments they were to bow down and worship this image.
I imagine that this may be similar to what we'll face in the future and the image according to the scriptures could very well be set up on the temple mount.
In regards to the sabbath though. End-time prophecy is not even mentioned to be revolving around the sabbath, not according to the scriptures anyway, but...
rather about whom you will put your faith in. Will you be willing to live for Jesus, no matter the cost? Will you die in the faith? Will you worship him who made heaven and earth, or worship the devil? Worship is not solely stuck to the sabbath in the bible so to say that it has to mean the sabbath just because it says to worship him who made all things is to add to the scriptures.
@Myhopeisinhim I DON'T KNOW WHAT SDAs you are acquainted with are teaching you about what is to unfold in the near future. BUT LET IT BE KNOWN TO YOU THIS DAY THAT THE FOUNDATION OF OUR FAITH IS JESUS CHRIST. WE FOLLOW JESUS & HIS COMMAND THAT'S WHY WE ARE SEEN HONORING HIM ON THE SABBATH DAY ACCORDING TO THE 4th COMMANDMENT. DO YOU FOLLOW JESUS? IT WAS CONSTANTINE WHOM YOU ARE FOLLOW IN HONORING SUNDAY AS A DAY OF WORSHIP, IT IS THE PAPACY & ITS TRADITIONS WHOM YOU ARE FOLLOWING TODAY.
@Myhopeisinhim WE WORSHIP THE LIVING GOD WHO MADE THE HEAVENS & THE EARTH & EVERYTHING. WHO DO YOU THINK CREATED THE SABBATH DAY? & WHO DO YOU THINK INSTITUTED THIS PARTICULAR DAY AS A SIGN OF HIS CREATIVE AUTHORITY? Of course you know all too well the answer. OUR FAITH REVOLVES AROUND THE PERSON OF CHRIST, OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. HE IS OUR OBJECT OF LIFE. THIS IS HOW WE KNOW THAT WE OUGHT TO WORSHIP THE CREATOR IN THE DAY HE HIMSELF INSTITUTED. BUT THIS OBEDIENCE IS A FRUIT OF OUR FAITH IN HIM.
@Myhopeisinhim TRUE SDAs are not practitioners of LEGALISM. Perhaps these are the kind of folks you are getting acquainted with. I AM TRULY SORRY ABOUT THAT. NOT ALL WHO SAY THEY ARE SDAs ARE SDAs. A lot misrepresent the gospel of Christ. I am expressing this because it seems as I perceived that you are getting a tone of legalism from the SDA folks you are acquainted with. But I hope it is not that way, maybe you misunderstood them every time you find them emphasizing on the Sabbath Day.
FINALLY, I noticed I have not pointed out for you the "MARK OF THE BEAST" but you readily recognized SUNDAY a "thought of" mark. IF YOU KNOW HOW TO IDENTIFY THE BEAST OF REVELATION 13 WHO HAS A "MARK" or "SIGN" OF AUTHORITY, FIND CONCRETE EVIDENCE FROM THE BEAST ITSELF CLAIMING SUCH A MARK. WHAT DOES THE BEAST SAY ABOUT THE "SIGN/SYMBOL/MARK" OF ITS AUTHORITY? YOU CAN ALWAYS FIND IT DOCUMENTED THROUGHOUT HISTORY! TODAY WE FIND IT VERBALLY ANNOUNCED IN PRESS. DO YOU TRULY KNOW WHO THE BEAST IS?
@Myhopeisinhim YOUR IMAGINATION HAS FALLEN SHORT OF WHAT BIBLE PROPHECY REVEALS. True SDAs understand clearly what the prophecies reveal and this they are able to discern through the evidence of HISTORIES and present conditions of world order and state. LIKE I SAID BEFORE, UNDERSTANDING PROPHECY IS NOT A WORK OF GUESSING OR SPECULATION, THE BIBLE REVEALS TO US WHAT HAS UNFOLDED & WHAT IS TO UNFOLD IN THE NEAR FUTURE. IT'S ALL IN THE BIBLE AND THE BIBLE ALONE CONFIRMS WHAT TRUTHS IT IMPLIED.
@Myhopeisinhim MY FRIEND, WHERE IN THE WORD OF GOD DID JESUS COMMANDED THAT WE WORSHIP HIM ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK? YOU ARE NOT READING YOUR BIBLE WELL ENOUGH MY FRIEND. THE TRANSFER OF SOLEMNITY WAS EXECUTED BY THE ANTI-CHRIST, THE POWERS OF APOSTASY. NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE NOT EVEN GOD HAS DECLARED OR COMMANDED THAT WE WORSHIP HIM ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK. JESUS, THE APOSTLES, AND TRUE CHRISTIANS OF THE DARK AGES THEY ALL COME TO GATHER ON THE 7th DAY, the SABBATH TO WORSHIP GOD.
@Myhopeisinhim MY FRIEND IT SEEMS THAT YOU NEED TO KNOW MORE WHAT SUNDAY LAW IS ABOUT. I ENCOURAGE THAT YOU STUDY THE HISTORIES OF THE CHURCH IN ITS APOSTOLIC PERIOD, THE FALLING AWAY, THE SUPREMACY OF TRADITION OVER THE WORD OF GOD, THE ROMAN EMPIRE IN ITS IMPERIAL & PAPAL PHASES (the first was pagan the second paganism infiltrating Christianity), & THE AUTHORITY OF THE PAPACY. YOU WILL KNOW A LOT OF THINGS FAR BETTER THAN YOU KNOW NOW ABOUT SUNDAY WORSHIP IF YOU STUDY FURTHER THE PROPHECIES.
@Myhopeisinhim MY FRIEND WHEN YOU'RE STUDYING PROPHECY YOU GOTTA KNOW HOW SYMBOLS WORK ACCORDING TO HOLY SCRIPTURES. THE SCRIPTURES INTERPRET ITSELF. THE MARK OF THE BEAST IS PERTAINING TO A SIGN OF ITS AUTHORITY. WE ARE NOT CONDEMNING PEOPLE HERE WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE MARK OF THE BEAST, RATHER WE POINT TO THE SIGN THAT IDENTIFIES THE FALSE SYSTEM OF RELIGION THAT WILL WRAP THE WHOLE WORLD. PROPHETIC SYMBOLS ARE STUDIED, NOT GUESSED UPON. I ENCOURAGE THAT YOU STUDY FURTHER THE WORD.
@Myhopeisinhim MY FRIEND, LET IT BE KNOWN TO YOU THIS DAY THE TRUE SDAs BELIEVE ONLY IN RIGHTEOUSNESS BY FAITH. OUR JUSTIFICATION IS BY FAITH ALONE. THE EMPHASIS ON THE SABBATH MAY BRING A TONE OF BELIEF IN RIGHTEOUSNESS BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, BUT WHAT A TRUE SDA TRULY BELIEVES IS FOUND IN EPHESIANS 2:8-10. THE TRUTH IS, BY FAITH WE RECEIVE THE GRACE OF GOD, & THIS GRACE PRODUCES IN US "RIGHTEOUS LIVING". THE WORKS OF GOD'S LAW IS PRODUCED IN US BY THIS GRACE THAT WE RECEIVED FROM GOD. :-)
@Myhopeisinhim I AM SORRY FOR YOU THAT WHAT YOU SEE AMONG THE SDA THAT YOU ARE ACQUAINTED WITH BRINGS A TONE IN THEIR LIFE AS IF RIGHTEOUSNESS IS BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW. NO MY FRIEND, THAT IS NOT CHRISTIANITY. RATHER, YOU SEE US OBEYING GOD (HIS WILL FOR US IS TO FULFILL HIS LAWS OTHERWISE WE TRANSGRESS HIM) AS A RESULT OF OUR FAITH IN GOD. OBEDIENCE IS THE RESULT, FRUIT, OUTCOME, PRODUCT OF OUR FAITH. IT IS NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND AS YOU SEE IN SOME SDAs, THEY STILL NEED TO GROW IN TRUTH.
@Myhopeisinhim KINDLY READ MY RESPONSES FROM BOTTOM GOING UP IN REGARD TO THIS INQUIRY YOU BROUGHT UP. YES MY FRIEND, A TRUE SDA FOCUSES ON CHRIST ALONE FOR HIS OR HER RIGHTEOUSNESS. BUT AS A RESULT, HE OR SHE IS SEEN OBEYING GOD ACCORDING TO HIS HOLY WILL. WHEN IT CONCERNS THE SABBATH AS A SIGN OF YOUR FAITH IN THE LAST DAYS, IT IS SIMPLY THE SIGN THAT YOU ARE THE TRUE & FAITHFUL, IT IS IN THIS SENSE THAT THE SABBATH IS A FINAL TEST ACCORDING TO THE PROPHECY GIVEN BY JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF. SEE?
@mamainmancj IF YOU STUDY IT PROPERLY, YOU WILL FIND HOW THE SABBATH RESEMBLES A SEAL OF AUTHORITY IN VIEW OF THE 4th COMMANDMENT IN RELATION TO THE REST OF THE DECALOGUE.
In view of the Remnant Church, THE SEAL OF GOD IS HIS CHARACTER... HIS LAW, IN THE HEARTS OF HIS CHILDREN, THIS IS MADE POSSIBLE ONLY THROUGH THE MINISTRATION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. WE SPEAK OF THE SABBATH AS A SEAL TO MEAN IT IS A >>>SIGN<<< THAT WE ARE GOD'S REMNANT PEOPLE TRUE TO HIS CAUSE & COMMAND.
HOW ABOUT WHEN A BAPTIST PREACHES & TEACHES THAT BAPTISM BY IMMERSION IS NO LONGER NECESSARY FOR FAITH & DOCTRINE AND ENFORCES SPRINKLING... WHAT WOULD THE BAPTIST DENOMINATION DO? ARE THEY STILL GOING TO ALLOW DENOMINATIONAL EMPLOYMENT FOR THAT PARTICULAR PERSON? WOULD THEY KEEP HIM ON THE MINISTERIAL RANKS TO SERVE? DISFELLOWSHIP IS UNNECCESSARY, BUT I DOUBT IF THE BAPTIST CHURCH WILL NOT HAVE THE NERVE TO DISFELLOWSHIP THAT PERSON IN QUESTION...
so i have a question...all the other religions dont have some person that started their church? tjhey dont have doctorines that if a pastor disagrees is asked to step down and talked too? the guy with the mic said he appreciated this coversatin but it was really an attack. lets focus on the word....if you know anything about Jesus, his commandments, prophecy, the choice is clear between sabbath faith and sunday worship. I pray you are all research before probation closes.
I am adventist but Dr. William looks not prepared well...to support the trusth.. What Dr. Walter debate is not based on the Bible but from outside thing...that's not necessary ..
@alvincung Well, I find he answered well enough. IT IS NEEDLESS TO BE HEATED UP IN CONVERSION. It's just that people did not get his SIMPLE POINT (I believe everyone attentive enough in viewing the video got that simple point) because it ends the discussion. The folks wanted to get around in circles perhaps to find answers that they want to favor with their arguments.
@alvincung I agree. when dealing with debate especially on the Bible and its mysterious beliefs you can't defend it by your mere knowledge and in dept reading. Being an Advenist Reviewer doesnt mean you know everything. No. it is not a matter of critical scientific or religious discussion. This debate was here before the world began. It is the oldest ever known debate of right and wrong. So, if I were to conclude Dr. William is not ready. He should let the Lord speak. He should be the instrument
@alvincung Dr. W.Johnson HAS BEEN OVERLY REPEATING THE KEY POINT. HE DOESN'T HAVE TO DISPUTE OR ARGUE EXTENSIVELY, THERE ARE CLEARLY MATTERS NOT TAKEN INTO VIEW BY THE PROSECUTORS AS THEY BRING DOWN THEIR QUESTIONS. THE ANSWERS ARE SIMPLE, IT IS A MATTER OF FUNDAMENTAL BELIEF. AS A REMNANT CHURCH WE COME INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIBLE ACCORDING TO ITS TRUE LIGHT THROUGH A MESSENGER OF GOD. WE DO NOT NECESSARILY PROCLAIM THAT ELLEN WHITE IS THE AUTHORITY OVER SCRIPTURES, NO THAT IS NOT.
We respect the messengers of God for the End-Time Church. It is not only Sister Ellen White who made herself available for the service of the Lord Jesus, there are others who are quite notable. However Sister Ellen distinctly exercise her God-given gift of prophecy. I haven't read anything yet concerning mistakes that such people here from the debate are pointing. I wonder if what they quote from Sister Ellen they are able to bring up into a perspective IN THEIR PROPER CONTEXT.
@Myhopeisinhim HOW CAN ONE BELIEVE IF ONE DID NOT DETERMINE TO KNOW? Obviously people who does not read what she wrote in their proper light will fail to appreciate the gift of prophecy. AS ALWAYS, every time I find people undermining the integrity of Sister Ellen's work which is made possible only through the gift of prophecy God has endowed mankind, it is always on a basis of using her statements OUT OF THEIR PROPER CONTEXT, & WITH THE WRONG MOTIVES. Those who read them right were blessed.
The test of a prophet is whether or not what they prophesy has come to pass, and especially whether they teach according to that which was already written, or do they change what is written. If a prophet adds to or takes away then the plagues will be added to him.
Ellen White spoke against that which was already written in the bible directly. She states that the atonement isn't completed, yet the bible teaches we've ALREADY received it..that's only one of many.
@Myhopeisinhim YOUR ALLEGATIONS NEED TO BE PROVEN. Show from writings what did she prophesy about that made you think she is a false prophet. HAVE YOU READ ALL THAT SHE HAS WRITTEN? Or are you simply accusing a person without a GENUINE BASIS. You are accountable of what you are saying or implying. If you are a true Christian you would never venture to bear false witness against your fellowman. Now show me the books, pages, statements where you said she is in direct contradiction of the Bible.
when an animal is chosen for atonement, they must be perfect and given that lots were cast between the two goats that means both were equally perfect.
Perfect represents sinless. Is satan sinless? Can satan provide atonement? There really wasn't any way to show the complete atonement in one goat because one had to show that forgiveness had been received and sin removed.
This second goat was NOT A SACRIFICE! Therefore, it could NOT picture Jesus Christ, who as a sacrifice paid the penalty for all our sins. Secondly, this second goat was "sent away" to the desert by the COMMAND of GOD! Notice once more: This second goat is chosen "by lot," as is the first goat. That is, God Himself choses which goat will represent Christ as our Saviour and Redeemer, and which goat will represent this other symbolism -- the "Azazel."
In fact, satan returns at the end if the 1000 years to deceive the people. So if we get really picky with the physical we could find aspects that reject both of them.
Look at the duties and you'll see both goats duties fulfilled in Jesus. You won't find any verses that say satan provides atonemen, or satan takes your sin in his body or that he removes them. Its just not in the scriptures.
No matter which way the goat turned there was no way that the sins removed could be returned to the people. You could look west and east but no end in sight.
The two goats revealed to us the full and complete work of Christ.
One thing for us to remember is that the law speaks of Christ and how Christ is the lamb of God that provides an atonement for the people.
How jesus came into this world to bear the sins of the world and remove our sins from us as far as the east is from the west; thus symbolized with the wilderness.
@Myhopeisinhim I agree that scriptures speaks of Christ and how he is the lamb of God taht provides atonements for the people!!!!! Bottom line, Jesus Christ is my savior and I beleive in him with my heart and soul. A cult is any religion that take us away from that truth!!!!! Im sure you can agree with me on that!!
Not all of the apostles agreeed on how the church should run lol.
@Myhopeisinhim But for the sake of arguments I think that your assuming that east and west means wilderness. There is no comparison in scripture!!!!! lol But thats not important whats important is that we must come together as christians and reconize christ as lord!!!!!!!
Bingo, but we must also recognized his atoning work. It is because of his atoning work we have been saved, and our sins are washed away. You see the two duties of the scapegoat were to bear the sins of the people, and remove the sins from the people.
And we can find verses that share with us that Jesus did this for us. And never can we find a verse giving these duties to satan, Jesus fulfilled them. Giving Jesus duties to satan, and giving satan part in the atonement....
may put ones salvation at risk. God is a jealous God and won't share the atonement with satan. The bible says the second goat provides atonement:
Lev 16:10 - But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an ATONEMENT with him, [and] to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness
Who atoned for us?
Rom 5:11 And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
Those who believe satan is the second goat believe satan also provides atonement for the people, thus the atonement isn't solely by christ. They make satan a co-redeemer of sorts.
@lillibeth13 I was arguing the contrary. What people fail to realize is that the second goat can't possibly represent Christ. Only the first goat does. The first goat was sacraficed as atonement for our sins, the second goat was used as a scapegoat for the reason of sin. (left to die) Satan is not a co-redeemer!!!!! Why would God cast lots on the goats on the first place, better question why would God use two goats to get one job done??
@lexis1234 A friend of mine on Youtube brought up an interesting point that I think needs to be addressed. Paul, in 1 Corinthians 5:7 states that "Christ, our PASSOVER is sacrificed for us."
Now, some Christians (like yourself) also claim that Christ is the first goat sacrificed as an atonement for our sins. Recall that the Passover and the Day of Atonement are TWO COMPLETELY SEPARATE FEAST DAYS occurring in two different times of they year, one being in the Spring, and the latter in the Fall.
@lillibeth13 Everyone agrees that the first goat, which is sacrificed for a sin offering, whose blood is sprinkled over the Most Holy Place, the Tent of Meeting and the altar, represents Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, who was slain for the sins of the world. John the Baptist looked upon Jesus, and declared to his disciples, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!" (John 1:29).
@lillibeth13 The apostle Paul wrote of Christ, our High Priest, "Such a high priest meets our need -- one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins ONCE FOR ALL when he offered himself" (Heb.7:26-27).
@lillibeth13 Paul explained further, "When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation. He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place ONCE FOR ALL BY HIS OWN BLOOD, having obtained eternal redemption" (Heb.9:11-12).
@lillibeth13 Jesus is also the "Passover Lamb" who was slain for us, that our sins might be covered by His blood, and we might be forgiven, and have peace and reconciliation with God. "For Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed" (I Cor.5:7).
@lexis1234 So, my question is, to all of you Pauline Christians, how is it possible for Jesus to have fulfilled both feast days, the Passover, and the Day of Atonement, at the SAME time, when the two feast days occur at two different times of the year?
@lillibeth13 Christ was never sent away to the desert, carrying our sins to the remote wilderness. This pictures some other altogether different event!
@Myhopeisinhim I do reconize his atoning work....Thank God that he saved us!! Jesus died on the cross (the sacrafice of the first goat) My question is what verse tells us that jesus had the duties of the scapegoat? After christ died on the cross he didn't go into the wilderness to die? It wouldnt make sence because he already died on the cross. The only logical conclusion is that THE second goat has to represent satan and his time alone on the earth.
WALTER MARTIN IS (WAS) AN AWESOME MAN OFGOD.PEOPLE WOULD DO WELL TO LISTEN TO HIM
AMAZING DISCOVERY(S) I JUST MADE...ELLEN G WHITE'S GRAVE SIGHT HAS A MASONIC SYMBOL ERECTED ON IT....ELLEN G WHITE USES NEW AGE TERMINOLOGY IN HER WRITINGS eg. "MOTHER NATURE" AND "VITAL FORCE"...SDA DOCTINE TO A, LARGE PART,IS BASED HEAVILY ON THIS ONE PERSONS WRITINGS.CONSIDER THE SOURCE AND PLEASE DO AN "INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT" FOR YOURSELF....
WALTER MARTIN IS (WAS) AN AWESOME MAN OF.PEOPLE WOULD DO WELL TO LISTEN TO HIM
AMAZING DISCOVERY(S) I JUST MADE...ELLEN G WHITE'S GRAVE SIGHT HAS A MASONIC SYBOL ERECTED ON IT....ELLEN G WHITE USES NEW AGE TERMINOLOGY IN HER WRITINGS eg. "MOTHER NATURE" AND "VITAL FORCE"...SDA DOCTINE TO A, LARGE PART,IS BASED HEAVILY ON THIS ONE PERSONS WRITINGS.CONSIDER THE SOURCE ANDPLEASE DO AN "INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT" FOR YOURSELF....
AFTER WATCHING THIS SERIALS FOR THE THIRD TIME, I MUST SAY THAT I : LOVE THE GUY WILLIAM JOHNSON FOR HIS VERY VERY KINDNESS HE DISPLAYED DURING THIS DISUSSION.
BUT I FEAR THAT AS LONG AS SDA-CHURCH KEEPS ON HOLDING FAST TO ELLEN G.WHITE AS THE INFAILABLE INTERPRETER OF THE BIBLE AND ON INVESTIGATIVE JUDGEMENT 1844 THAT SDS-CHURCH KEEPS ON BEING A CULT-SORRY FOR THAT.
@Ni1234ck but we dont. A cult is a church thats not christ centric...and the SDA represents christ to the fullest!!!! mormons are cults and so is the jehova witness.........but SDA. I dont believ so.
IT IS NOT NECESSAR TELLING ME THAT JEHOVAS W. ARE A CULT,I WAT A JEHOVAS W. FOR MORE THAN 25 Y. TEREFORE I KNOW WHAT A CULT IS LIKE.
THE ROLLE YOUR CHURCH IS ATTRIBUTING TO ELLEN G. WHITE IS,AFTER HEARING THE QUOTATIONS HERE FROM HER WRITINGS AND THE ARGUMENTS OF WILLIAM JOHNSON,IF ANY; WERE NOT CONVINCING.
I REPEAT AS LONG AS YOU HOLD FAST TO THE INFAILABLE INTERPRETER OF THE BIBLE AND ON INVESTIGATIVE JUDGEMENT 1844 THAT SDS-CHURCH KEEPS ON BEING A CULT-SORRY FOR THAT.
@Ni1234ck But you are wrong that's where the issue is. You saying the Sda church is a cult and you never probaly stepped foot into the church. At my church we barly talk about Ellen G.Wwhite and the other churches ive been too Ellen barley is talked about. Too tell you the truth if she even is concidered a propohtess she is no more important that joshua samuale or any of the other prophets we had in the pass.
She might not be talked about much, but her teachings are spread within the church. Many of the teachings you receive, investigative judgment, jesus entering the veil in 1844, satan being the second goat, are ellen white's teachings and not the bible. The teaching of the sunday law is not from the scripture and is yet another teaching of ellen white.
A person doesn't need to mention her name for her influence to be there. Please know I mean no offense to you.
@Myhopeisinhim Oh your good no offense and thank you. :) Ellen White's works do not form the doctrine of the Seventh-day Adventist church. The Bible is the standard we go by. For many people Ellen White's writings bring them to a closer study and understanding of the Bible. The Adventist church backs every belief from the Bible and the Bible only. The bible says that if anybody add or take away from God's word then basically that person will be damned.
@Myhopeisinhim I'm apologize for responding so late. The 2nd goat represents what will happen to Satan. On the day of atonement, the High Priest transfers the guilt of sins of all the people onto the 2nd goat and he is sent out into the wilderness, just as when Jesus comes, all the guilt of the sins on Lucifer and he is left on this desolate world for a thousand years while we are in heaven..
The bible never says anything about your sin getting placed on satan, nor that satan removes your sin. That is something that has been assumed, despite lack of evidence, and only based on one fact and that fact was satan being put into prison for 1000 years.
But actually the sending of the goat into the wilderness has nothing to do with satan, but rather it symbolized the removal of our sins. He wanted to give the people a visual realization...
of their sin being removed. It showed them that their sins had been pardoned and removed from them.
There is nothing that connects this with satan. There are no verses that integrate satan into the atonement. The bible says that the second goat provides atonement with the people. The second goat showed two parts of the atonement. The taking of our sin in his own body(which Jesus did), and the removal of our sin(which Jesus came to do).
By making satan the second goat, he becomes a co-redeemer because redemption couldn't be complete without him. The two goats represent Jesus and all the aspects of his atoning work, from taking our sins upon himself, into his own body, paying for them, and removing them from us so that they can no longer condemn us.
This was all Jesus work. You can see from the scriptures how the duties of both goats are fulfilled in Jesus, and none that say any of them are fulfilled in satan.
You can't just say, oh the goat gets sent into the wilderness and satan gets put in prison, and then use that as a means for saying satan is the second goat. That would be like me saying that since the sins got placed on Jesus, but didn't get placed on the first goat, that must mean that Jesus isn't the first goat. Or that since the first goat died, but Jesus rose to life, that means he can't be the first goat because it didn't come back to life again.
@Myhopeisinhim Today, our sins have been forgiven by Jesus Christ’s sacrifice;( first lamb) when the Day of Atonement is fulfilled, the original blame for these sins will be put back where it belongs: on Satan the devil, who will be completely removed from the presence of God and suffer mental torment forever as justice demands (Revelation 20:10).
....and by the way not just SDA beleives this other christian denominations would agree with me too.
@Myhopeisinhim Satan is not the co-redeemer at all instaed that second goat was used as.... well as a scapegoat. Im not saying that we should blame our sin on satan because we Choose to sin, however the purpose of the ceremony is the cleansing of sin. In order to clean sin God must destroy the one who started sin in the first place satan and he did that with the second goat.
@Myhopeisinhim Ask your self these question...why do God need two Goats to do the same task? The first Goat is to sacrfice for our sins(take away) and the second goat is to remove our sins(take away). That would be illogical to use two goats for the same purpose. Also Why would God banish Christ to the desert? The first goat already destroyed sin by the sacrafice so wouldn't make since to banish the goat that started sin(satan) in the first place?
@Myhopeisinhim I know your making assumptions that second Goat represents christ . Why does God need two Goats to reperesent Christ!!!?? I never said that our sins are placed on Satan instead they are transferred to satan because he is the craetor of sin! Jesus alone bore our sins and he died for us!!!! He was the sacraficial lamb praise Christ!
@Myhopeisinhim You might argue that Jesus alone bare all sins of the world, and that's a fact he does!!!!! Noticed what happens to the first goat, the 1st goat is sacrificed for the sins. Jesus is that 1st goat and was sacrificed for our sins. The guilt of those sins was transferred to the 2nd goat..........
@Myhopeisinhim It's the same guilt that haunts you at times making you feel inferior and unworthy of the lamb that was slain for you. Satan wants you to feel the weight of guilt for the sins Jesus has already forgiven you. But this guilt is for Satan alone to bear. Guilt should immediately drive us to Jesus to confess anything that would keep us from the salvation already made for us. ....
@Myhopeisinhim You have to look at the big picture, everything that happened in leviticus and deuteronmy, the ceremonies, the rituals, are all designed as a blue print of God'S REAL plan of salvation. JESUS CHRIST!!!! Everything pointed to christ. So my question is how can we be a cult if we beleive in Jesus Chirst divinity and his plan of salvation for us. We don't follow Ellen White a God, that would be blaphemous.
@Ni1234ck If we read any writings outside from the bible then WE make sure that that the bible supports it. If it dose no't then we would be more than happy to call any writing weather it be from Ellen or not false. I was a mormom my self and i know a whole bunch of Jehova witness mormons there scriptures comes straight from jhoseph smith and the bible is obsolete to there religion same as the jehovas witness in there manuscript. I promise you the sda is not like that.
Whatever things that are true in the bible and are revealed in scripture by the claims of the Seventh Day Adventist church if they do not agree with your beliefs or doctrines you claim it as cultic.
Adventists have this delusion that just because they get out of bed every Sabbath, get dressed up in a suit or dress, attend a building with other Adventists, sing a song or two, tithe, gossip a bit about each other, hear a sermon, and go home, that magically they are now perfect Sabbath and Law keepers and saved by God based on their weekly Sabbath works! They are deceived with legalism and in reality they have 2 Saviors, part Jesus and part themselves and their own Sabbath keeping!
@spooteronicus: "she is judged by what she wrote and how it compares to the Word of God."
The Millerite chart isn't in the Bible, so you cannot use it to judge her. Secondly, since Canright actually knew her and you do not, his 'opinion" if one could call it that, has more weight than your habitual lies.
@dconklin58 - who gives a ratt's butt about Canright, his opinion means absolutely nothing to anybody ... you're just trying to add some stupid level of credibility to lies against the God of Heaven made by Ellen G. White who accused GOD of using HIS Holy Hand to guide along errors from them and then hide the errors on purpose. If you and Canright think THAT is Christian? then that is your issue, but I would not dare to accuse God as your "prophet" did !!!
@spooteronicus so Canright thinks a woman who accuses God of playing tricks is a great Christian woman? And you apparently think she is as well. Now we see who you truly worship, Ellen White and ur own foolish opinions. Keep following after the one who accuses God of playing games and being a God who promotes errors and purposefully conceals them and is the author of games and tricks ... that was her accusation, she said those errors were JUST AS GOD WANTED THEM and should not be altered ...
@dconklin58 - Good then let's look at Ellen White's statement again and see if she lied about God and look for the truth ... she said "the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord", "the figures were as He wanted them", "His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it"
@spooteronicus: Nice thast you have a quote, but you can't read it straight and lied when you claim that she "blamed" or "accussed" God of the mistake.
I wouldn't use that book if I were you. H's accusing EGW of plagiarism,but in his examples he has 13 or so where she DOES give her source! And in many other cases he has manipulated and distorted what the original source (in at least one case EGW too) said. When what I had found was posted on the web and an outsider read it he concluded that I had already demonstrated that EGW wasn't a plagiarist.
@dconklin58 - I'm not using any book at all just pointing out the EGW is a liar, I don;t care much about her plagiarism, the more important issue is her accusations against God. Accusing Him of purposefully making and covering up mistakes !!! Instead of admitting she and the Milerites were wrong on the 1843 charts.
And yet you managed to name the book by its title--how interesting.
Again you lie in saying that Ellen White accused God when in fact, she did not. It has always been admited that the Millerites made a mistake on the event that happened in 1844.
Since you seem to be incapable of telling the truth I suggest that we end this right now.
@dconklin58 - it would be to your benefit to end this conversation because it points to truth. Truth that EGW Accused God of masterminding the mistake and guiding it with His Holy Hand, covering it up, only to reveal it later ... LOL ... truth indeed !!!!!
@spooteronicus - And who told her that 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord? Her statement began with the words "I have seen..." But she never told who showed her. Perhaps she was deceived by herself or an evil spirit. Or maybe she's just full of bologna and people like bologna better than the truth. Especially when the truth forces them to admit they were wrong. Oh, she admitted the mistake, but she never let herself or the Millerites take responsibility. Rather she blamed God
@dconklin58 - Oh but she did ... she admitted there was a mistake but that it was GOD who was responsible for the mistake .. that there WAS a mistake was obvious enough. But she said God's hand lead the mistake, hid it, covered it, and that God willed it that way and that the chart should NOT be altered. That is the evidence and its plain enough.
@spooteronicus - And anybody who cares to read it in Early Writings (p.74 I believe) can see it for themselves. Oh, there's your reference BTW since you accused me of not having it and were too lazy to find it ...
@dconklin58 - "And it only tyook you several days to find it." - nope I knew where it was since I was the one who provided the original quote. I just refused to provide the location of the quote to magnify your ignorance of her writings and of course it worked as usual.
@dconklin58 - "Yeah, right! No one can search for the general idea." funny because I searched for the general idea on Google and it came up immediately. Of course if you were already familiar with her writings you would have known what I was talking about and exactly where to find it.
@dconklin58 - sorry O ignorant one but she said "it was as God wanted it and should not be changed" ... no critical reading skills required here ... good thing for you since you have none.
@dconklin58 - wrong, she said a mistake was made and that it was God who lead the errored figures on the 1843 charts, that the errors in the chart were as God wanted them and that God even concealed those errors with His own hand. lying fool !!!
@spooteronicus - if your "critical reading" courses cause you to interpret insults and accusations against God from a lying prophet, as acceptable or appropriate, then you can have your academic prizes, they have made you into a lying fool who would rather fall at the feet of a lying prophet than honor the reputation of the Lord.
We don't worship Ellen White--that's another lie (among the 70) you critics tell. God's honor was in no way impugned. You show in every post that you don't know what you are talking about and don't know it.
Try studying the difference between verbal inspiration and plenary inspiration. You won't, but at least you've been told.
@dconklin58 - Try offering an explanation for her statements instead of ignoring them !!!! All you have said is "no she didn't", "not true" blah blah blah, but you offer nothing to refute the plain argument that she accused God and you have no way to explain it
@spooteronicus - you SAY you are interested in the truth but when it comes to uncovering it, you make excuses not to answer questions. Answers that might reveal that the truth has proven some of your preconceived ideas to be false. Like granting EGW prophetic status when you haven;t studied deeply enough into her writings. All you have done is study to the level of trying to defend her against charges of plagiarism. All based on a false premise that she has prophetic status to begin with
@spooteronicus - But you ignore the bigger issues, or at least make feeble excuses for them like Jesus' older brothers, the 1856 failed prophecy, the accusation that God had His hand in the erred charts of the Millerites in 1843, etc. etc. Broaden your view and you will see that her whole "career" is chalked full of these "mis-statements" and flat out errors whilst under supposed "inspiration". Plagiarism is the least of the problems, her lying is a much bigger problem, and your lying to urself
@spooteronicus - It seems that all of your self worth is tied up in her legitimacy as a prophet and not in finding the truth in Christ. The reason I say that is that you seem to have spent so much time writing about the issue of plagiarism but I would bet anything that you have never written a single article on how to come to Christ by faith. Which would be more beneficial for the world to see? So I ask again...
Was the 1843 chart directed by the hand of the Lord or not? YES / NO?
@dconklin58 - "I've never claimed that she was a prophet" - You have defended all of her false prophecies so don't lie about your opinion of her "prophetic gift" and YES your self worth is tied up in her legitimacy, and that legitimacy includes her status as a "prophet". Stop trying to weasel
As for Ellen White, she was just a woman with opinions and a pen, that's all!
She probably should have spent less time writing and more time with her husband.
MsMeredithw 1 week ago
Hardly anyone even keeps Jesus' name Holy for that matter, i think we should give him His due and offer up all seven days to Him! After all, what can we do, or refrain from doing on any day without Him?
MsMeredithw 1 week ago
Hardly anyone keeps any of the seven days Holy anymore, so what difference does it make?
MsMeredithw 1 week ago
@alvincung
There is only one true church and no one denomination can claim to be the sole one.
The church is made up of every single born again believer of Jesus Christ. The walls don't make the church.
Myhopeisinhim 4 weeks ago
This was an excellent debate. I came away with a whole new perspective on SDA. Actually I know strong SDA woman who has a long family history in the church & what I like about her is she has strong family roots, a great outlook on life, & she does have strong beliefs but what disturbs me is she believes all gods lead to 1 god & she strongly advocates abortion, but knowing she gets her theology from White rather than the Bible is just too much.
paisleyyama 4 weeks ago
whatever..there is the only true church according to the bible that is SDA...we should also try to see the truth about it....
alvincung 4 weeks ago
@iiiemotioniii
the question that clears up the legalism issue is...and I know this has been asked many times but...
Can someone who trusts and has faith in jesus christ and rests in him as their sabbath by letting go of their works and resting in his works of the cross be saved? even if they don't keep a physical seventh day sabbath and instead rest in the spiritual rest christ provides?
And I'm not referring to those who havent heard the three angels message.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
The sda church thinks the sabbath is the seal of Gods people yet the holy spirit is the seal. The new testament in Colossians 2:16 tells us not to let anyone judge us in sabbaths or food or drink also that we are no longer under the curse of the law Galatians 3:10. Give up on Ellen g white she's false. Stick with the kjv bible.
mamainmancj 2 months ago
@mamainmancj THE SABBATH IS A "SEAL" IN A PROPER SENSE. WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO EXPLAIN? I don't have much space but I'll try to illustrate and the rest is up to you:
"The 4th commandment illustrates a SEAL" discover the following elements
NAME: "The Lord thy God"
AUTHORITY: "creator of the Sabbath and all things"
DOMINION: "heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is..."
CHARGE: "Worship the Lord thy God on the Sabbath, which is the 7th day of the week"
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
@iiiEMOTIONiii
The bible lists a few things as a seal depending on the covenant
1. Noah - Rainbow
2. Abraham - Circumcision
3. Moses - sabbath
4. New covenant - Holy Spirit
Each covenant was provided with a seal, and ours is the Holy Spirit. IF you want to put a human spin on it and declare that it must have a name, authority, dominion and charge, then the Holy Spirit has exactly that and is mentioned in the new covenant as the seal, whereas the sabbath is not.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
Comment removed
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
:-) The Holy Spirit is the AGENT of the seal of God. The Sabbath of the 4th commandment is not for Moses alone to identify with, have you truly read from the Bible? Read the Bible, I did not put any human spin on the matter. THOSE WHO STUDY THE BIBLE PROPERLY & CANDIDLY WILL FIND HOW THE SABBATH IS SAID TO BE A SEAL. I was clear on the Sabbath when it is viewed as a seal in relation to the Remnant People... DID YOU READ MY COMMENT?
SEAL, i.e. a distinct SIGN that identifies God's true people.
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
MORE SIMPLY FOR YOU:
The Holy Spirit will SEAL God's people at the appointed time...
The Holy Spirit is the agency of the Godhead who will perform the SEALING...
What will the Holy Spirit SEAL us with? He will SEAL us with the "CHARACTER" of God (thus the expression "...sealed on their foreheads"). The SEAL per se, IS THE CHARACTER OF GOD WHICH WILL BE MADE MANIFEST IN THE HEART & SOUL.
The Sabbath is a seal in a sense that IT IS A SIGN that distinguishes God's people from the COUNTERFEIT.
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
MORE SIMPLE:
The Sabbath, i.e. the 7th day of the week according to the commandment, is "ILLUSTRATED" by SDAs to be a "SEAL" in relation to the prophetic revelation of Jesus Christ in Revelation 13. THE WHOLE BIBLE TEACHES THAT THE SABBATH OF THE 4th COMMANDMENT IS A SIGN BETWEEN GOD & HIS PEOPLE. In other words, it identifies who are God's TRUE people.
Now, a clear understanding of Revelation 13 will illustrate that the "MARK OF THE BEAST" is the "SIGN" or "SEAL" of a COUNTERFEIT RELIGION.
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
@iiiEMOTIONiii
In the mosaic covenant it did, but however, there is another seal in the new covenant:
Eph 1:13-14 - In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory
more....
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
2Cr 1:21-22 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God; who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
more...
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
The Holy Spirit is given as a seal to the believer, like a receipt, that you are a purchased possession and that when he returns he'll return for you.
If you don't have his Spirit, you are none of his. How does one receive his Spirit, this seal of God....is it through the works of the law or by the hearing of faith? Read these verses carefully....
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
You are also sealed now, the moment you believe when he places his Spirit within you....if you have not this Spirit, you are none of his..this sealing takes place at the moment of faith..not at some future time.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim Yes my friend, Paul illustrates How God's people are sealed unto RIGHTEOUSNESS with the HOLY SPIRIT as the active agent. It is in this "SALVATIONAL SENSE" that the Holy Spirit is the seal of our union with God unto righteousness. But you are charging on SDAs about A SEAL IN A "PROPHETIC SENSE". In the last days, there will be two CLASSES of people, #1 God's Remnant and #2 The Children of Apostasy. SDAs speak of the Sabbath as a "SEAL" or "SIGN" in view of a particular PROPHECY.
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim MOREOVER,
God's Remnant Children:
These are known by the seal of His character manifested by the Holy Spirit in their being, the SIGN of such a people living in the last days are those who keep the SABBATH of the 4th commandment.
The Children of Apostasy:
These are also known by the seal of their characters according to the dictates of HUMAN TRADITION & AUTHORITY. It has a sign too... in prophetic language it is known as the "MARK OF THE BEAST" the SIGN of its ASSUMED AUTHORITY.
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim CAN YOU SEE NOW HOW THE SABBATH OF THE 4th COMMANDMENT IS ILLUSTRATED AS A SEAL? We all know, the seal of God per se is His PERFECT CHARACTER MADE MANIFEST IN THE HEART & SOUL. So don't get confused about the ILLUSTRATION... The Sabbath is simply a representation of GOD'S CHARACTER... If you manifest GOD'S CHARACTER then you will be found honoring HIS SABBATH. THIS IS A SIGN, THIS IS WHAT DISTINGUISHES GOD'S TRUE PEOPLE FROM THE APOSTATE RELIGIONS OF THE WORLD.
Keep studying!
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim Kindly read my comments from below going up. They are a chain of thoughts in relation to your questions. I find it a blessing to share, TRUTHS with you.
Your emphasis above is nice, but I find it lacked bringing the ENTIRETY OF THE HOLY SCRIPTURES in perspective of the SABBATH illustrated by SDAs as a SEAL OF GOD. I would have you directed to the PROPHECY in the book of Daniel & Revelation and more particularly in Revelation chapter 13. IT'S A STUDY, it's not mere talk. GBY!
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
@iiiEMOTIONiii
I know that adventists believe that the sabbath is the final test for God's people, but the bible does not say that. The law is not and never will be the test. It is not the way you justify yourself before God and never will be. It is and always will be based on faith.
Will you continue to put your faith in Christ unto the end, or will you at the end of time, put your faith in his enemy? That is the test. Will you endure trials and still praise his name?
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
The mark of the beast is one that gives you the ability to buy and sell. The sunday law doesn't do that. The bible describes the mark of the beast as a physical mark...the word used in the greek is defined as a cattle brand, like the owners of cattle brand their horses or cattle so that if they escape then their neighbors know who it belongs to.
Those who have this mark will be able to enter stores and conduct business, those who don't won't be able to...
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
Satan will want to give you a physical mark that declares you his. He will want something physical and since he knows that Jesus can be worshiped on sunday that cannot ever be the mark.
But it would just be like him to want to physically mark people because it would be a blunt, in your face, type thing. Now, I don't deny that the worship that he will require may land on a sunday, like when you will be required to worship his image...but sunday itself and worship on sunday is not
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
Remember Nebuchadnezzar. He sent up an image and at a specific time when the people heard the sounds of the instruments they were to bow down and worship this image.
I imagine that this may be similar to what we'll face in the future and the image according to the scriptures could very well be set up on the temple mount.
In regards to the sabbath though. End-time prophecy is not even mentioned to be revolving around the sabbath, not according to the scriptures anyway, but...
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
rather about whom you will put your faith in. Will you be willing to live for Jesus, no matter the cost? Will you die in the faith? Will you worship him who made heaven and earth, or worship the devil? Worship is not solely stuck to the sabbath in the bible so to say that it has to mean the sabbath just because it says to worship him who made all things is to add to the scriptures.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim I DON'T KNOW WHAT SDAs you are acquainted with are teaching you about what is to unfold in the near future. BUT LET IT BE KNOWN TO YOU THIS DAY THAT THE FOUNDATION OF OUR FAITH IS JESUS CHRIST. WE FOLLOW JESUS & HIS COMMAND THAT'S WHY WE ARE SEEN HONORING HIM ON THE SABBATH DAY ACCORDING TO THE 4th COMMANDMENT. DO YOU FOLLOW JESUS? IT WAS CONSTANTINE WHOM YOU ARE FOLLOW IN HONORING SUNDAY AS A DAY OF WORSHIP, IT IS THE PAPACY & ITS TRADITIONS WHOM YOU ARE FOLLOWING TODAY.
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim WE WORSHIP THE LIVING GOD WHO MADE THE HEAVENS & THE EARTH & EVERYTHING. WHO DO YOU THINK CREATED THE SABBATH DAY? & WHO DO YOU THINK INSTITUTED THIS PARTICULAR DAY AS A SIGN OF HIS CREATIVE AUTHORITY? Of course you know all too well the answer. OUR FAITH REVOLVES AROUND THE PERSON OF CHRIST, OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. HE IS OUR OBJECT OF LIFE. THIS IS HOW WE KNOW THAT WE OUGHT TO WORSHIP THE CREATOR IN THE DAY HE HIMSELF INSTITUTED. BUT THIS OBEDIENCE IS A FRUIT OF OUR FAITH IN HIM.
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago 2
@Myhopeisinhim TRUE SDAs are not practitioners of LEGALISM. Perhaps these are the kind of folks you are getting acquainted with. I AM TRULY SORRY ABOUT THAT. NOT ALL WHO SAY THEY ARE SDAs ARE SDAs. A lot misrepresent the gospel of Christ. I am expressing this because it seems as I perceived that you are getting a tone of legalism from the SDA folks you are acquainted with. But I hope it is not that way, maybe you misunderstood them every time you find them emphasizing on the Sabbath Day.
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
Comment removed
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
FINALLY, I noticed I have not pointed out for you the "MARK OF THE BEAST" but you readily recognized SUNDAY a "thought of" mark. IF YOU KNOW HOW TO IDENTIFY THE BEAST OF REVELATION 13 WHO HAS A "MARK" or "SIGN" OF AUTHORITY, FIND CONCRETE EVIDENCE FROM THE BEAST ITSELF CLAIMING SUCH A MARK. WHAT DOES THE BEAST SAY ABOUT THE "SIGN/SYMBOL/MARK" OF ITS AUTHORITY? YOU CAN ALWAYS FIND IT DOCUMENTED THROUGHOUT HISTORY! TODAY WE FIND IT VERBALLY ANNOUNCED IN PRESS. DO YOU TRULY KNOW WHO THE BEAST IS?
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim YOUR IMAGINATION HAS FALLEN SHORT OF WHAT BIBLE PROPHECY REVEALS. True SDAs understand clearly what the prophecies reveal and this they are able to discern through the evidence of HISTORIES and present conditions of world order and state. LIKE I SAID BEFORE, UNDERSTANDING PROPHECY IS NOT A WORK OF GUESSING OR SPECULATION, THE BIBLE REVEALS TO US WHAT HAS UNFOLDED & WHAT IS TO UNFOLD IN THE NEAR FUTURE. IT'S ALL IN THE BIBLE AND THE BIBLE ALONE CONFIRMS WHAT TRUTHS IT IMPLIED.
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim MY FRIEND, WHERE IN THE WORD OF GOD DID JESUS COMMANDED THAT WE WORSHIP HIM ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK? YOU ARE NOT READING YOUR BIBLE WELL ENOUGH MY FRIEND. THE TRANSFER OF SOLEMNITY WAS EXECUTED BY THE ANTI-CHRIST, THE POWERS OF APOSTASY. NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE NOT EVEN GOD HAS DECLARED OR COMMANDED THAT WE WORSHIP HIM ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK. JESUS, THE APOSTLES, AND TRUE CHRISTIANS OF THE DARK AGES THEY ALL COME TO GATHER ON THE 7th DAY, the SABBATH TO WORSHIP GOD.
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim MY FRIEND IT SEEMS THAT YOU NEED TO KNOW MORE WHAT SUNDAY LAW IS ABOUT. I ENCOURAGE THAT YOU STUDY THE HISTORIES OF THE CHURCH IN ITS APOSTOLIC PERIOD, THE FALLING AWAY, THE SUPREMACY OF TRADITION OVER THE WORD OF GOD, THE ROMAN EMPIRE IN ITS IMPERIAL & PAPAL PHASES (the first was pagan the second paganism infiltrating Christianity), & THE AUTHORITY OF THE PAPACY. YOU WILL KNOW A LOT OF THINGS FAR BETTER THAN YOU KNOW NOW ABOUT SUNDAY WORSHIP IF YOU STUDY FURTHER THE PROPHECIES.
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim MY FRIEND WHEN YOU'RE STUDYING PROPHECY YOU GOTTA KNOW HOW SYMBOLS WORK ACCORDING TO HOLY SCRIPTURES. THE SCRIPTURES INTERPRET ITSELF. THE MARK OF THE BEAST IS PERTAINING TO A SIGN OF ITS AUTHORITY. WE ARE NOT CONDEMNING PEOPLE HERE WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE MARK OF THE BEAST, RATHER WE POINT TO THE SIGN THAT IDENTIFIES THE FALSE SYSTEM OF RELIGION THAT WILL WRAP THE WHOLE WORLD. PROPHETIC SYMBOLS ARE STUDIED, NOT GUESSED UPON. I ENCOURAGE THAT YOU STUDY FURTHER THE WORD.
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim MY FRIEND, LET IT BE KNOWN TO YOU THIS DAY THE TRUE SDAs BELIEVE ONLY IN RIGHTEOUSNESS BY FAITH. OUR JUSTIFICATION IS BY FAITH ALONE. THE EMPHASIS ON THE SABBATH MAY BRING A TONE OF BELIEF IN RIGHTEOUSNESS BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, BUT WHAT A TRUE SDA TRULY BELIEVES IS FOUND IN EPHESIANS 2:8-10. THE TRUTH IS, BY FAITH WE RECEIVE THE GRACE OF GOD, & THIS GRACE PRODUCES IN US "RIGHTEOUS LIVING". THE WORKS OF GOD'S LAW IS PRODUCED IN US BY THIS GRACE THAT WE RECEIVED FROM GOD. :-)
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim I AM SORRY FOR YOU THAT WHAT YOU SEE AMONG THE SDA THAT YOU ARE ACQUAINTED WITH BRINGS A TONE IN THEIR LIFE AS IF RIGHTEOUSNESS IS BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW. NO MY FRIEND, THAT IS NOT CHRISTIANITY. RATHER, YOU SEE US OBEYING GOD (HIS WILL FOR US IS TO FULFILL HIS LAWS OTHERWISE WE TRANSGRESS HIM) AS A RESULT OF OUR FAITH IN GOD. OBEDIENCE IS THE RESULT, FRUIT, OUTCOME, PRODUCT OF OUR FAITH. IT IS NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND AS YOU SEE IN SOME SDAs, THEY STILL NEED TO GROW IN TRUTH.
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
Comment removed
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Myhopeisinhim KINDLY READ MY RESPONSES FROM BOTTOM GOING UP IN REGARD TO THIS INQUIRY YOU BROUGHT UP. YES MY FRIEND, A TRUE SDA FOCUSES ON CHRIST ALONE FOR HIS OR HER RIGHTEOUSNESS. BUT AS A RESULT, HE OR SHE IS SEEN OBEYING GOD ACCORDING TO HIS HOLY WILL. WHEN IT CONCERNS THE SABBATH AS A SIGN OF YOUR FAITH IN THE LAST DAYS, IT IS SIMPLY THE SIGN THAT YOU ARE THE TRUE & FAITHFUL, IT IS IN THIS SENSE THAT THE SABBATH IS A FINAL TEST ACCORDING TO THE PROPHECY GIVEN BY JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF. SEE?
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
@mamainmancj IF YOU STUDY IT PROPERLY, YOU WILL FIND HOW THE SABBATH RESEMBLES A SEAL OF AUTHORITY IN VIEW OF THE 4th COMMANDMENT IN RELATION TO THE REST OF THE DECALOGUE.
In view of the Remnant Church, THE SEAL OF GOD IS HIS CHARACTER... HIS LAW, IN THE HEARTS OF HIS CHILDREN, THIS IS MADE POSSIBLE ONLY THROUGH THE MINISTRATION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. WE SPEAK OF THE SABBATH AS A SEAL TO MEAN IT IS A >>>SIGN<<< THAT WE ARE GOD'S REMNANT PEOPLE TRUE TO HIS CAUSE & COMMAND.
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
HOW ABOUT WHEN A BAPTIST PREACHES & TEACHES THAT BAPTISM BY IMMERSION IS NO LONGER NECESSARY FOR FAITH & DOCTRINE AND ENFORCES SPRINKLING... WHAT WOULD THE BAPTIST DENOMINATION DO? ARE THEY STILL GOING TO ALLOW DENOMINATIONAL EMPLOYMENT FOR THAT PARTICULAR PERSON? WOULD THEY KEEP HIM ON THE MINISTERIAL RANKS TO SERVE? DISFELLOWSHIP IS UNNECCESSARY, BUT I DOUBT IF THE BAPTIST CHURCH WILL NOT HAVE THE NERVE TO DISFELLOWSHIP THAT PERSON IN QUESTION...
iiiEMOTIONiii 2 months ago
Comment removed
iiiEMOTIONiii 2 months ago
God bless ANCHORBERG!!
jackmarsilva 2 months ago
so i have a question...all the other religions dont have some person that started their church? tjhey dont have doctorines that if a pastor disagrees is asked to step down and talked too? the guy with the mic said he appreciated this coversatin but it was really an attack. lets focus on the word....if you know anything about Jesus, his commandments, prophecy, the choice is clear between sabbath faith and sunday worship. I pray you are all research before probation closes.
jwesKeys 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Pearl Trees Of Life [a vast resource of evidence]:
[3w dot] pearltrees [dot com] [forwardslash] awhn
Final Events:
watch?v=D1lFYO5zE-c
[3w dot] halos [dot com]
[3w dot] orionfdn [dot org]
[3w dot] amazingfacts [dot org] or [dot tv]
[3w dot] amazingdiscoveries [dot org] or [dot tv]
AWHNNOH 7 months ago
I am adventist but Dr. William looks not prepared well...to support the trusth.. What Dr. Walter debate is not based on the Bible but from outside thing...that's not necessary ..
alvincung 9 months ago 3
@alvincung Well, I find he answered well enough. IT IS NEEDLESS TO BE HEATED UP IN CONVERSION. It's just that people did not get his SIMPLE POINT (I believe everyone attentive enough in viewing the video got that simple point) because it ends the discussion. The folks wanted to get around in circles perhaps to find answers that they want to favor with their arguments.
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
I am adventist but Dr. William looks not prepared well...to support the trusth..
alvincung 9 months ago
@alvincung I agree. when dealing with debate especially on the Bible and its mysterious beliefs you can't defend it by your mere knowledge and in dept reading. Being an Advenist Reviewer doesnt mean you know everything. No. it is not a matter of critical scientific or religious discussion. This debate was here before the world began. It is the oldest ever known debate of right and wrong. So, if I were to conclude Dr. William is not ready. He should let the Lord speak. He should be the instrument
poporamasia 5 months ago
@alvincung Dr. W.Johnson HAS BEEN OVERLY REPEATING THE KEY POINT. HE DOESN'T HAVE TO DISPUTE OR ARGUE EXTENSIVELY, THERE ARE CLEARLY MATTERS NOT TAKEN INTO VIEW BY THE PROSECUTORS AS THEY BRING DOWN THEIR QUESTIONS. THE ANSWERS ARE SIMPLE, IT IS A MATTER OF FUNDAMENTAL BELIEF. AS A REMNANT CHURCH WE COME INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIBLE ACCORDING TO ITS TRUE LIGHT THROUGH A MESSENGER OF GOD. WE DO NOT NECESSARILY PROCLAIM THAT ELLEN WHITE IS THE AUTHORITY OVER SCRIPTURES, NO THAT IS NOT.
iiiEMOTIONiii 2 months ago
We respect the messengers of God for the End-Time Church. It is not only Sister Ellen White who made herself available for the service of the Lord Jesus, there are others who are quite notable. However Sister Ellen distinctly exercise her God-given gift of prophecy. I haven't read anything yet concerning mistakes that such people here from the debate are pointing. I wonder if what they quote from Sister Ellen they are able to bring up into a perspective IN THEIR PROPER CONTEXT.
iiiEMOTIONiii 2 months ago
@iiiEMOTIONiii
Why do you believe that Ellen White has the gift of prophecy?
Myhopeisinhim 2 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim HOW CAN ONE BELIEVE IF ONE DID NOT DETERMINE TO KNOW? Obviously people who does not read what she wrote in their proper light will fail to appreciate the gift of prophecy. AS ALWAYS, every time I find people undermining the integrity of Sister Ellen's work which is made possible only through the gift of prophecy God has endowed mankind, it is always on a basis of using her statements OUT OF THEIR PROPER CONTEXT, & WITH THE WRONG MOTIVES. Those who read them right were blessed.
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
@iiiEMOTIONiii
The test of a prophet is whether or not what they prophesy has come to pass, and especially whether they teach according to that which was already written, or do they change what is written. If a prophet adds to or takes away then the plagues will be added to him.
Ellen White spoke against that which was already written in the bible directly. She states that the atonement isn't completed, yet the bible teaches we've ALREADY received it..that's only one of many.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
Comment removed
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
Comment removed
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Myhopeisinhim YOUR ALLEGATIONS NEED TO BE PROVEN. Show from writings what did she prophesy about that made you think she is a false prophet. HAVE YOU READ ALL THAT SHE HAS WRITTEN? Or are you simply accusing a person without a GENUINE BASIS. You are accountable of what you are saying or implying. If you are a true Christian you would never venture to bear false witness against your fellowman. Now show me the books, pages, statements where you said she is in direct contradiction of the Bible.
iiiEMOTIONiii 1 month ago
when an animal is chosen for atonement, they must be perfect and given that lots were cast between the two goats that means both were equally perfect.
Perfect represents sinless. Is satan sinless? Can satan provide atonement? There really wasn't any way to show the complete atonement in one goat because one had to show that forgiveness had been received and sin removed.
Myhopeisinhim 10 months ago
@lexis1234
Comtemplate the verse you quoted where John said "behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world."
if you'll think back to Lev 16 it never says that sins are placed on the first goat or that the first goat removes the sins of the people.
Ever wonder why these things aren't said of the first goat, but rather found in the second?
Myhopeisinhim 10 months ago
This second goat was NOT A SACRIFICE! Therefore, it could NOT picture Jesus Christ, who as a sacrifice paid the penalty for all our sins. Secondly, this second goat was "sent away" to the desert by the COMMAND of GOD! Notice once more: This second goat is chosen "by lot," as is the first goat. That is, God Himself choses which goat will represent Christ as our Saviour and Redeemer, and which goat will represent this other symbolism -- the "Azazel."
lexis1234 10 months ago
In fact, satan returns at the end if the 1000 years to deceive the people. So if we get really picky with the physical we could find aspects that reject both of them.
Look at the duties and you'll see both goats duties fulfilled in Jesus. You won't find any verses that say satan provides atonemen, or satan takes your sin in his body or that he removes them. Its just not in the scriptures.
Myhopeisinhim 10 months ago
You are looking more at the physical aspect rather than the spiritual aspect. If you look at the physical you run into more barriers and problems.
For example. The first goat died and was never bought back to life. i could say there was no way it speaks of Jesus because jesus came back to life.
You brought up the second goat being led into the wilderness to die, but satan doesn't die in the wilderness.
Myhopeisinhim 10 months ago
@lexis1234
Lets look at the duties of the scapegoat.
We're told that he provides atonement for the people. We're told our sin is placed in/on him. We're told he removes our sin.
1. christ is our atonement
2. Christ took our sin in his own body
3. We're told he came to remove our sin and we're told he removed them from us.
Myhopeisinhim 10 months ago
@lillibeth13
Its just like how Christ represented all the sacrifices of the old covenant.
Myhopeisinhim 10 months ago
No matter which way the goat turned there was no way that the sins removed could be returned to the people. You could look west and east but no end in sight.
The two goats revealed to us the full and complete work of Christ.
Myhopeisinhim 10 months ago
@lexis1234
One thing for us to remember is that the law speaks of Christ and how Christ is the lamb of God that provides an atonement for the people.
How jesus came into this world to bear the sins of the world and remove our sins from us as far as the east is from the west; thus symbolized with the wilderness.
Myhopeisinhim 10 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim I agree that scriptures speaks of Christ and how he is the lamb of God taht provides atonements for the people!!!!! Bottom line, Jesus Christ is my savior and I beleive in him with my heart and soul. A cult is any religion that take us away from that truth!!!!! Im sure you can agree with me on that!!
Not all of the apostles agreeed on how the church should run lol.
lexis1234 10 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim But for the sake of arguments I think that your assuming that east and west means wilderness. There is no comparison in scripture!!!!! lol But thats not important whats important is that we must come together as christians and reconize christ as lord!!!!!!!
lexis1234 10 months ago
@lexis1234
Bingo, but we must also recognized his atoning work. It is because of his atoning work we have been saved, and our sins are washed away. You see the two duties of the scapegoat were to bear the sins of the people, and remove the sins from the people.
And we can find verses that share with us that Jesus did this for us. And never can we find a verse giving these duties to satan, Jesus fulfilled them. Giving Jesus duties to satan, and giving satan part in the atonement....
Myhopeisinhim 10 months ago
may put ones salvation at risk. God is a jealous God and won't share the atonement with satan. The bible says the second goat provides atonement:
Lev 16:10 - But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an ATONEMENT with him, [and] to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness
Who atoned for us?
Rom 5:11 And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
Myhopeisinhim 10 months ago
The two goats represented works of Jesus Christ in how he atoned for us.
Myhopeisinhim 10 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim Who is arguing the contrary?
lillibeth13 10 months ago
@lillibeth13
Those who believe satan is the second goat believe satan also provides atonement for the people, thus the atonement isn't solely by christ. They make satan a co-redeemer of sorts.
Myhopeisinhim 10 months ago
@lillibeth13 I was arguing the contrary. What people fail to realize is that the second goat can't possibly represent Christ. Only the first goat does. The first goat was sacraficed as atonement for our sins, the second goat was used as a scapegoat for the reason of sin. (left to die) Satan is not a co-redeemer!!!!! Why would God cast lots on the goats on the first place, better question why would God use two goats to get one job done??
lexis1234 10 months ago
@lexis1234 A friend of mine on Youtube brought up an interesting point that I think needs to be addressed. Paul, in 1 Corinthians 5:7 states that "Christ, our PASSOVER is sacrificed for us."
Now, some Christians (like yourself) also claim that Christ is the first goat sacrificed as an atonement for our sins. Recall that the Passover and the Day of Atonement are TWO COMPLETELY SEPARATE FEAST DAYS occurring in two different times of they year, one being in the Spring, and the latter in the Fall.
lillibeth13 10 months ago
@lillibeth13 Everyone agrees that the first goat, which is sacrificed for a sin offering, whose blood is sprinkled over the Most Holy Place, the Tent of Meeting and the altar, represents Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, who was slain for the sins of the world. John the Baptist looked upon Jesus, and declared to his disciples, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!" (John 1:29).
lexis1234 10 months ago
@lillibeth13 The apostle Paul wrote of Christ, our High Priest, "Such a high priest meets our need -- one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins ONCE FOR ALL when he offered himself" (Heb.7:26-27).
lexis1234 10 months ago
@lillibeth13 Paul explained further, "When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation. He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place ONCE FOR ALL BY HIS OWN BLOOD, having obtained eternal redemption" (Heb.9:11-12).
lexis1234 10 months ago
@lillibeth13 Jesus is also the "Passover Lamb" who was slain for us, that our sins might be covered by His blood, and we might be forgiven, and have peace and reconciliation with God. "For Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed" (I Cor.5:7).
lexis1234 10 months ago
@lexis1234 So, my question is, to all of you Pauline Christians, how is it possible for Jesus to have fulfilled both feast days, the Passover, and the Day of Atonement, at the SAME time, when the two feast days occur at two different times of the year?
lillibeth13 10 months ago
@lillibeth13 Christ was never sent away to the desert, carrying our sins to the remote wilderness. This pictures some other altogether different event!
lexis1234 10 months ago
@lexis1234 Yes, I understand your point and you're absolutely right. That still doesn't answer my question, though.
lillibeth13 10 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim I do reconize his atoning work....Thank God that he saved us!! Jesus died on the cross (the sacrafice of the first goat) My question is what verse tells us that jesus had the duties of the scapegoat? After christ died on the cross he didn't go into the wilderness to die? It wouldnt make sence because he already died on the cross. The only logical conclusion is that THE second goat has to represent satan and his time alone on the earth.
lexis1234 10 months ago
WALTER MARTIN IS (WAS) AN AWESOME MAN OFGOD.PEOPLE WOULD DO WELL TO LISTEN TO HIM
AMAZING DISCOVERY(S) I JUST MADE...ELLEN G WHITE'S GRAVE SIGHT HAS A MASONIC SYMBOL ERECTED ON IT....ELLEN G WHITE USES NEW AGE TERMINOLOGY IN HER WRITINGS eg. "MOTHER NATURE" AND "VITAL FORCE"...SDA DOCTINE TO A, LARGE PART,IS BASED HEAVILY ON THIS ONE PERSONS WRITINGS.CONSIDER THE SOURCE AND PLEASE DO AN "INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT" FOR YOURSELF....
jimmiller7 1 year ago
WALTER MARTIN IS (WAS) AN AWESOME MAN OF.PEOPLE WOULD DO WELL TO LISTEN TO HIM
AMAZING DISCOVERY(S) I JUST MADE...ELLEN G WHITE'S GRAVE SIGHT HAS A MASONIC SYBOL ERECTED ON IT....ELLEN G WHITE USES NEW AGE TERMINOLOGY IN HER WRITINGS eg. "MOTHER NATURE" AND "VITAL FORCE"...SDA DOCTINE TO A, LARGE PART,IS BASED HEAVILY ON THIS ONE PERSONS WRITINGS.CONSIDER THE SOURCE ANDPLEASE DO AN "INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT" FOR YOURSELF....
jimmiller7 1 year ago
AFTER WATCHING THIS SERIALS FOR THE THIRD TIME, I MUST SAY THAT I : LOVE THE GUY WILLIAM JOHNSON FOR HIS VERY VERY KINDNESS HE DISPLAYED DURING THIS DISUSSION.
BUT I FEAR THAT AS LONG AS SDA-CHURCH KEEPS ON HOLDING FAST TO ELLEN G.WHITE AS THE INFAILABLE INTERPRETER OF THE BIBLE AND ON INVESTIGATIVE JUDGEMENT 1844 THAT SDS-CHURCH KEEPS ON BEING A CULT-SORRY FOR THAT.
Ni1234ck 1 year ago
@Ni1234ck but we dont. A cult is a church thats not christ centric...and the SDA represents christ to the fullest!!!! mormons are cults and so is the jehova witness.........but SDA. I dont believ so.
lexis1234 1 year ago
@lexis1234
IT IS NOT NECESSAR TELLING ME THAT JEHOVAS W. ARE A CULT,I WAT A JEHOVAS W. FOR MORE THAN 25 Y. TEREFORE I KNOW WHAT A CULT IS LIKE.
THE ROLLE YOUR CHURCH IS ATTRIBUTING TO ELLEN G. WHITE IS,AFTER HEARING THE QUOTATIONS HERE FROM HER WRITINGS AND THE ARGUMENTS OF WILLIAM JOHNSON,IF ANY; WERE NOT CONVINCING.
I REPEAT AS LONG AS YOU HOLD FAST TO THE INFAILABLE INTERPRETER OF THE BIBLE AND ON INVESTIGATIVE JUDGEMENT 1844 THAT SDS-CHURCH KEEPS ON BEING A CULT-SORRY FOR THAT.
Ni1234ck 1 year ago
@Ni1234ck But you are wrong that's where the issue is. You saying the Sda church is a cult and you never probaly stepped foot into the church. At my church we barly talk about Ellen G.Wwhite and the other churches ive been too Ellen barley is talked about. Too tell you the truth if she even is concidered a propohtess she is no more important that joshua samuale or any of the other prophets we had in the pass.
lexis1234 1 year ago
@lexis1234
She might not be talked about much, but her teachings are spread within the church. Many of the teachings you receive, investigative judgment, jesus entering the veil in 1844, satan being the second goat, are ellen white's teachings and not the bible. The teaching of the sunday law is not from the scripture and is yet another teaching of ellen white.
A person doesn't need to mention her name for her influence to be there. Please know I mean no offense to you.
Myhopeisinhim 11 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim Oh your good no offense and thank you. :) Ellen White's works do not form the doctrine of the Seventh-day Adventist church. The Bible is the standard we go by. For many people Ellen White's writings bring them to a closer study and understanding of the Bible. The Adventist church backs every belief from the Bible and the Bible only. The bible says that if anybody add or take away from God's word then basically that person will be damned.
lexis1234 11 months ago
@lexis1234
What are your thoughts on how they teach satan is the second goat on the day of atonement? Do you know where they find that in the scriptures?
Time for me to head off to sleep. I pray that the Lord God blesses you throughout this day:)
Myhopeisinhim 11 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim I'm apologize for responding so late. The 2nd goat represents what will happen to Satan. On the day of atonement, the High Priest transfers the guilt of sins of all the people onto the 2nd goat and he is sent out into the wilderness, just as when Jesus comes, all the guilt of the sins on Lucifer and he is left on this desolate world for a thousand years while we are in heaven..
lexis1234 10 months ago
@lexis1234
The bible never says anything about your sin getting placed on satan, nor that satan removes your sin. That is something that has been assumed, despite lack of evidence, and only based on one fact and that fact was satan being put into prison for 1000 years.
But actually the sending of the goat into the wilderness has nothing to do with satan, but rather it symbolized the removal of our sins. He wanted to give the people a visual realization...
more.....
Myhopeisinhim 10 months ago
of their sin being removed. It showed them that their sins had been pardoned and removed from them.
There is nothing that connects this with satan. There are no verses that integrate satan into the atonement. The bible says that the second goat provides atonement with the people. The second goat showed two parts of the atonement. The taking of our sin in his own body(which Jesus did), and the removal of our sin(which Jesus came to do).
It showed a complete picture of his atoning work
Myhopeisinhim 10 months ago
By making satan the second goat, he becomes a co-redeemer because redemption couldn't be complete without him. The two goats represent Jesus and all the aspects of his atoning work, from taking our sins upon himself, into his own body, paying for them, and removing them from us so that they can no longer condemn us.
This was all Jesus work. You can see from the scriptures how the duties of both goats are fulfilled in Jesus, and none that say any of them are fulfilled in satan.
Myhopeisinhim 10 months ago
You can't just say, oh the goat gets sent into the wilderness and satan gets put in prison, and then use that as a means for saying satan is the second goat. That would be like me saying that since the sins got placed on Jesus, but didn't get placed on the first goat, that must mean that Jesus isn't the first goat. Or that since the first goat died, but Jesus rose to life, that means he can't be the first goat because it didn't come back to life again.
Look at the duties of the goats...
Myhopeisinhim 10 months ago
and you can see the duties of both goats are seen in Jesus, not satan.
Please be careful with the doctrine of satan being the second goat, it presents another gospel, and is very dangerous.
Myhopeisinhim 10 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim Today, our sins have been forgiven by Jesus Christ’s sacrifice;( first lamb) when the Day of Atonement is fulfilled, the original blame for these sins will be put back where it belongs: on Satan the devil, who will be completely removed from the presence of God and suffer mental torment forever as justice demands (Revelation 20:10).
....and by the way not just SDA beleives this other christian denominations would agree with me too.
lexis1234 10 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim Satan is not the co-redeemer at all instaed that second goat was used as.... well as a scapegoat. Im not saying that we should blame our sin on satan because we Choose to sin, however the purpose of the ceremony is the cleansing of sin. In order to clean sin God must destroy the one who started sin in the first place satan and he did that with the second goat.
lexis1234 10 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim Ask your self these question...why do God need two Goats to do the same task? The first Goat is to sacrfice for our sins(take away) and the second goat is to remove our sins(take away). That would be illogical to use two goats for the same purpose. Also Why would God banish Christ to the desert? The first goat already destroyed sin by the sacrafice so wouldn't make since to banish the goat that started sin(satan) in the first place?
lexis1234 10 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim I know your making assumptions that second Goat represents christ . Why does God need two Goats to reperesent Christ!!!?? I never said that our sins are placed on Satan instead they are transferred to satan because he is the craetor of sin! Jesus alone bore our sins and he died for us!!!! He was the sacraficial lamb praise Christ!
lexis1234 10 months ago
@lexis1234
Where in the bible does it say our sin is transferred to satan?
Myhopeisinhim 10 months ago
Comment removed
lexis1234 10 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim You might argue that Jesus alone bare all sins of the world, and that's a fact he does!!!!! Noticed what happens to the first goat, the 1st goat is sacrificed for the sins. Jesus is that 1st goat and was sacrificed for our sins. The guilt of those sins was transferred to the 2nd goat..........
lexis1234 10 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim It's the same guilt that haunts you at times making you feel inferior and unworthy of the lamb that was slain for you. Satan wants you to feel the weight of guilt for the sins Jesus has already forgiven you. But this guilt is for Satan alone to bear. Guilt should immediately drive us to Jesus to confess anything that would keep us from the salvation already made for us. ....
lexis1234 10 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim You have to look at the big picture, everything that happened in leviticus and deuteronmy, the ceremonies, the rituals, are all designed as a blue print of God'S REAL plan of salvation. JESUS CHRIST!!!! Everything pointed to christ. So my question is how can we be a cult if we beleive in Jesus Chirst divinity and his plan of salvation for us. We don't follow Ellen White a God, that would be blaphemous.
lexis1234 10 months ago
@Ni1234ck If we read any writings outside from the bible then WE make sure that that the bible supports it. If it dose no't then we would be more than happy to call any writing weather it be from Ellen or not false. I was a mormom my self and i know a whole bunch of Jehova witness mormons there scriptures comes straight from jhoseph smith and the bible is obsolete to there religion same as the jehovas witness in there manuscript. I promise you the sda is not like that.
lexis1234 1 year ago
Whatever things that are true in the bible and are revealed in scripture by the claims of the Seventh Day Adventist church if they do not agree with your beliefs or doctrines you claim it as cultic.
Gameroosterperson 1 year ago
Seventh Day Adventistm is Christian Church not a cult.
Gameroosterperson 1 year ago
@Gameroosterperson
Not true. They have an additional authoritative source of truth outside of the Bible. That's cultic.
Hawgdawgrain 1 year ago
Adventists have this delusion that just because they get out of bed every Sabbath, get dressed up in a suit or dress, attend a building with other Adventists, sing a song or two, tithe, gossip a bit about each other, hear a sermon, and go home, that magically they are now perfect Sabbath and Law keepers and saved by God based on their weekly Sabbath works! They are deceived with legalism and in reality they have 2 Saviors, part Jesus and part themselves and their own Sabbath keeping!
The1Antonio1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
dconklin58 - Question 1) Was the 1843 Chart directed by God's hand or not?
YES/NO?
I await your reply
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@spooteronicus: "she is judged by what she wrote and how it compares to the Word of God."
The Millerite chart isn't in the Bible, so you cannot use it to judge her. Secondly, since Canright actually knew her and you do not, his 'opinion" if one could call it that, has more weight than your habitual lies.
dconklin58 1 year ago
@dconklin58 - who gives a ratt's butt about Canright, his opinion means absolutely nothing to anybody ... you're just trying to add some stupid level of credibility to lies against the God of Heaven made by Ellen G. White who accused GOD of using HIS Holy Hand to guide along errors from them and then hide the errors on purpose. If you and Canright think THAT is Christian? then that is your issue, but I would not dare to accuse God as your "prophet" did !!!
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@spooteronicus so Canright thinks a woman who accuses God of playing tricks is a great Christian woman? And you apparently think she is as well. Now we see who you truly worship, Ellen White and ur own foolish opinions. Keep following after the one who accuses God of playing games and being a God who promotes errors and purposefully conceals them and is the author of games and tricks ... that was her accusation, she said those errors were JUST AS GOD WANTED THEM and should not be altered ...
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@spooteronicus: "so Canright thinks a woman who accuses God of playing tricks is a great Christian woman?"
EGW didn't accuse God of anything. The diff between Van right and you is that in reference to her he knew how to tell the truth.
dconklin58 1 year ago
@spooteronicus: "who gives a ratt's butt about Canright, his opinion means absolutely nothing to anybody"
It does to people who are trying to find the truth. Jesus said the truth shall set you free. No one can find truth from one who lies.
dconklin58 1 year ago
@dconklin58 - Good then let's look at Ellen White's statement again and see if she lied about God and look for the truth ... she said "the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord", "the figures were as He wanted them", "His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it"
The WHITE LIE
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@spooteronicus: Nice thast you have a quote, but you can't read it straight and lied when you claim that she "blamed" or "accussed" God of the mistake.
dconklin58 1 year ago
@spooteronicus: "The WHITE LIE"
I wouldn't use that book if I were you. H's accusing EGW of plagiarism,but in his examples he has 13 or so where she DOES give her source! And in many other cases he has manipulated and distorted what the original source (in at least one case EGW too) said. When what I had found was posted on the web and an outsider read it he concluded that I had already demonstrated that EGW wasn't a plagiarist.
dconklin58 1 year ago
@dconklin58 - I'm not using any book at all just pointing out the EGW is a liar, I don;t care much about her plagiarism, the more important issue is her accusations against God. Accusing Him of purposefully making and covering up mistakes !!! Instead of admitting she and the Milerites were wrong on the 1843 charts.
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@spooteronicus: "I'm not using any book at all"
And yet you managed to name the book by its title--how interesting.
Again you lie in saying that Ellen White accused God when in fact, she did not. It has always been admited that the Millerites made a mistake on the event that happened in 1844.
Since you seem to be incapable of telling the truth I suggest that we end this right now.
dconklin58 1 year ago
@dconklin58 - it would be to your benefit to end this conversation because it points to truth. Truth that EGW Accused God of masterminding the mistake and guiding it with His Holy Hand, covering it up, only to reveal it later ... LOL ... truth indeed !!!!!
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@spooteronicus: "Truth that EGW Accused God of masterminding the mistake "
That's the repeated lie you keep telling. The truth is that she did no such thing.
Now confess and repent before it is too late:
Revelation 21:8 "... all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."
dconklin58 1 year ago
@dconklin58 - Oh, ok let's see where I lied ... I'll quote her AGAIN ...
LIE #1) "the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord"
LIE #2) "the figures were as He wanted them"
LIE #3) "His hand was over and hid a mistake"
it is EGW and SDA's who need to repent against accusing God to protect their lying prophet !!!
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@spooteronicus - Let's break this down
Question 1) Was the 1843 Chart directed by God's hand or not?
YES/NO?
I await your reply
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@dconklin58 - She did do such a thing and it is publicly available in her published writings ...
2 Timothy: "And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
Here's a Fable for example: "the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord"
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@spooteronicus - And who told her that 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord? Her statement began with the words "I have seen..." But she never told who showed her. Perhaps she was deceived by herself or an evil spirit. Or maybe she's just full of bologna and people like bologna better than the truth. Especially when the truth forces them to admit they were wrong. Oh, she admitted the mistake, but she never let herself or the Millerites take responsibility. Rather she blamed God
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@spooteronicus: "She did do such a thing and it is publicly available in her published writings"
And you provided the very evidence that showed she did NOT accuse, or blame God.
dconklin58 1 year ago
@dconklin58 - Oh but she did ... she admitted there was a mistake but that it was GOD who was responsible for the mistake .. that there WAS a mistake was obvious enough. But she said God's hand lead the mistake, hid it, covered it, and that God willed it that way and that the chart should NOT be altered. That is the evidence and its plain enough.
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@spooteronicus - And anybody who cares to read it in Early Writings (p.74 I believe) can see it for themselves. Oh, there's your reference BTW since you accused me of not having it and were too lazy to find it ...
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@spooteronicus: "Oh, there's your reference BTW since you accused me of not having it and were too lazy to find it ... "
And it only tyook you several days to find it.
dconklin58 1 year ago
Comment removed
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@dconklin58 - "And it only tyook you several days to find it." - nope I knew where it was since I was the one who provided the original quote. I just refused to provide the location of the quote to magnify your ignorance of her writings and of course it worked as usual.
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@spooteronicus: "nope I knew where it was since I was the one who provided the original quote."
And yet you failed to provide it.
> I just refused to provide the location of the quote to magnify your ignorance of her writings
LOL! Yeah, right! No one can search for the general idea. We have to have specific words.
dconklin58 1 year ago
@dconklin58 - "Yeah, right! No one can search for the general idea." funny because I searched for the general idea on Google and it came up immediately. Of course if you were already familiar with her writings you would have known what I was talking about and exactly where to find it.
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@spooteronicus: "funny because I searched for the general idea on Google and it came up immediately"
Why would you have to search for it if you already knew where it came from?
dconklin58 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@dconklin58 - "Why would you have to search for it if you already knew where it came from? "
Simple, I'm using a computer. You know, CUT / PASTE ... it amazes me the things that people have to explain to you ...
spooteronicus 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@dconklin58 - "And yet you failed to provide it." Don't lie. I provided it several times.
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@spooteronicus: "but that it was GOD who was responsible for the mistake .. "
She didn't do that either. Perhapos it is your critical reading skills that are too low.
dconklin58 1 year ago
@dconklin58 - sorry O ignorant one but she said "it was as God wanted it and should not be changed" ... no critical reading skills required here ... good thing for you since you have none.
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@spooteronicus: "she said "it was as God wanted it and should not be changed""
No problem there. It doesn't back up your false assertion that she blamed or accused God.
dconklin58 1 year ago
@dconklin58 - wrong, she said a mistake was made and that it was God who lead the errored figures on the 1843 charts, that the errors in the chart were as God wanted them and that God even concealed those errors with His own hand. lying fool !!!
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@spooteronicus - if your "critical reading" courses cause you to interpret insults and accusations against God from a lying prophet, as acceptable or appropriate, then you can have your academic prizes, they have made you into a lying fool who would rather fall at the feet of a lying prophet than honor the reputation of the Lord.
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@spooteronicus:
We don't worship Ellen White--that's another lie (among the 70) you critics tell. God's honor was in no way impugned. You show in every post that you don't know what you are talking about and don't know it.
Try studying the difference between verbal inspiration and plenary inspiration. You won't, but at least you've been told.
dconklin58 1 year ago
@dconklin58 - And so I'll ask you again since you have, so far, been incapable of answering:
Was the 1843 chart directed by the hand of the Lord or not?
spooteronicus 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@spooteronicus: " And so I'll ask you again since you have, so far, been incapable of answering"
There you go assuming way too much again.
dconklin58 1 year ago
@spooteronicus: " that the errors in the chart were as God wanted them"
LOL! You really are an idiot! Try thinking outsoide of your narrow-minded little box before playing the Neo-Pharisee.
dconklin58 1 year ago
@dconklin58 - Try offering an explanation for her statements instead of ignoring them !!!! All you have said is "no she didn't", "not true" blah blah blah, but you offer nothing to refute the plain argument that she accused God and you have no way to explain it
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@spooteronicus: "Try offering an explanation for her statements instead of ignoring them"
Again you assume too much and since you've made you mind up, regardless of the facts, it wouldn't do any good to anser your questions.
dconklin58 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@dconklin58 - "since you've made you mind up, regardless of the facts, it wouldn't do any good to anser your questions."
TRANSLATED: "My name is dconklin58 and I have no clue."
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@dconklin58 - I'll ask again,
Was the 1843 Chart guided by the Hand of the Lord or not?
YES / NO ???
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@spooteronicus
It wouldn't do any good to answer because you don't know what you are asking.
dconklin58 1 year ago
@dconklin58 - that was a cowardly reply ... Let's quote her again ... "I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord"
Was it or was it not?
YES / NO ?
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@spooteronicus: "that was a cowardly reply"
The truth is never cowardly. You assume too much.
dconklin58 1 year ago
@dconklin58 - Then I still await your reply of "truth" - was the 1843 chart directed by the hand of the Lord or not?
YES / NO ? ... waiting ....
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@spooteronicus - you SAY you are interested in the truth but when it comes to uncovering it, you make excuses not to answer questions. Answers that might reveal that the truth has proven some of your preconceived ideas to be false. Like granting EGW prophetic status when you haven;t studied deeply enough into her writings. All you have done is study to the level of trying to defend her against charges of plagiarism. All based on a false premise that she has prophetic status to begin with
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@spooteronicus - But you ignore the bigger issues, or at least make feeble excuses for them like Jesus' older brothers, the 1856 failed prophecy, the accusation that God had His hand in the erred charts of the Millerites in 1843, etc. etc. Broaden your view and you will see that her whole "career" is chalked full of these "mis-statements" and flat out errors whilst under supposed "inspiration". Plagiarism is the least of the problems, her lying is a much bigger problem, and your lying to urself
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@spooteronicus - It seems that all of your self worth is tied up in her legitimacy as a prophet and not in finding the truth in Christ. The reason I say that is that you seem to have spent so much time writing about the issue of plagiarism but I would bet anything that you have never written a single article on how to come to Christ by faith. Which would be more beneficial for the world to see? So I ask again...
Was the 1843 chart directed by the hand of the Lord or not? YES / NO?
spooteronicus 1 year ago
@spooteronicus: " It seems that all of your self worth is tied up in her legitimacy as a prophet and not in finding the truth in Christ."
I've never claimed that she was a prophet, hence my self worth isn't tied up in it. Your self worth seems to be tied up in lying about her and me.
dconklin58 1 year ago
@dconklin58 - "I've never claimed that she was a prophet" - You have defended all of her false prophecies so don't lie about your opinion of her "prophetic gift" and YES your self worth is tied up in her legitimacy, and that legitimacy includes her status as a "prophet". Stop trying to weasel
spooteronicus 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@spooteronicus: "You have defended all of her false prophecies"
I have yet to defend any prophecy--so why tell yet another lie?
dconklin58 1 year ago
@spooteronicus: " you have never written a single article on how to come to Christ by faith."
I don't have to; Ellen White already wrote a very good one: Steps to Christ.
dconklin58 1 year ago